Supercharged Civic Type R VS BMW M3 Track Battle Ends in DISASTER
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
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6:45 what a motor
7:04 this motor is dead
😅
I was going to post the same thing. Lol
Lmfao
BMW life
No engine, no brakes.
No problem!
Why not do the porsche and the dp's sick white stallion
Hey, that's my Celica in the video! Decided to do my first ever lapping day after attending the LZ World Tour. Had an amazing time! Sorry for almost spinning out in front of you DP hahaha.
Cool car btw
Thanks!@@jp2246
BUILD VIDEO PLS
-fellow gt4 owner
Wouldn't be much of a "build" video haha. Apart from aftermarket wheels, intake and exhaust, the car is completely stock.@@tabryis
such a cool car! super strut permanent awd! ❤
Having a rod bearing fail after actually changing them out is heartbreaking, but good to see you are chill with it, it’s what we risk when we want to beat on our cars. Great series gents, keep those heads up
I have an e46 M3 and an e92 M3, but that Honda looks like a blast to drive on the street. I'm all for this continuing as a long term series with the mods you both plan on doing!! Sorry for the engine loss.
Long term would imply the BMW would work long time, unless the series is about rebuilding a BMW engine because that will keep happening.
@@fcorivers 😂 I totally agree with you. Even today e46 M3's are sooo tempting but I couldn't commit to buying one. I recently heard an EU RUclipsr say these need a rebuild every ~100K miles. I bought an Si instead 🎉.
@@cdeluise yes, heard in some other "hoonin" channel where a guy was talking about how he bought an M3 and it was a good deal because the previous owner changed the rod bearings at 60K miles for maintenance like those are sparkplugs.
Sorry about the motor. The build series was great and excited to see what else you guys do with them. This stuff happens, so no worries and glad you guys keep it real for us.
100% agree on all fronts. Hang in there guys. I can only imagine how much of a damper that put on the day. For the next round - it would be enyoable to see you guys swap cars while on the track to get the other's input and reactions (like Hot Version before they hit the touge ;-)).You guys are awesome at what you do. It shows through the camera how much you guys have each other's backs - which is a big reason why I enjoy this channel so much. Keep it up guys!
I guess Valvoline isn’t that great? 😂😂
Imagine my surprise when the BMW didn't hold up........ imagine it. The suprisingness. All the surprise.
Usually heavily modifying a car makes it less reliable, but BMWs come unreliable out of the box.
Lol...
@@tonycosta3302quite a quintessential way to put it, LMFAO
LOLOLOLOLOL
*Insert Doge Meme here*
So glad to see you guys back on the track... seeing you guys actually putting your cars to the test at the track and finding their weaknesses has always been a highlight of this channel and what sets you apart from the rest.
Sorry Pete. That really sucks, I have to say this channels format is by far my favorite on RUclips. Interested to see what you find out when doing the tear down but more excited to see how you bounce back. Cheers!
Doesn't matter what the project, if something like this happens, it just gives that gut punch feeling! Thank you for sharing the experience with us.
Civic is such a good build! Those supercharger noises are addicting. Unfortunate situation on the BMW. I really wanted to see how these went head to head
Sorry about the m3, it sounded so glorious before the motor went. There's two potential issues outside of rod bearings that might have caused the issue with higher mileage motors. It's becoming a common issue where the plastic vanos covers on the s65 crack or warp over time and becoming dislodged. The other potential is the main bearings failure which will also take out rod bearings as well.
Main bearing number one is always the one that lets go, I had no idea that they wore so poorly too until M539 Restorations documented his S65 rebuild. He hypothesized it was due to overtension on the main serpentine belt causing excessive axial force on the crankshaft pulley and therefore the snout of the crank leaving main bearing 1 to bear the load.
The E92 M3 is my all time DREAM car but coming from bulletproof E36s I’m mentally preparing myself for what living with one is going to be like.
@@griffengardner I've been through a number of BMWs and current 225k mile E39 m5. S2000 is the car I have no qualms about going WOT for extended periods of time or track sessions of 20mins of pure WOT unless yellow/blk flag or something. With that said BMW motors can hit 200-500k miles but all of these documented cases have not been track cars. They're so damn beautiful so I've had and still have some BMWs
To put it simply , this engine needs a full rebuild every 100k km.
@@collussuspt and that's hard street driving. Start tracking it and I would be halving that.
Doesn't the e46 M engine also some similar issues?
I just want to say, this channel never fails me! Your humility is just so humbling! The fact you guys are bummed because you didn't get to turn laps and our torn up about not giving us enough entertainment is wild! You guys built a couple awesome and mostly attainable cars and showcased exactly what 1 of 1000 different outcomes could have happened! As much as this is your job to keep your viewers happy, you also have to recognize that we're gonna be here for it all! The good and the bad! We're here for the perseverance as much as the builds themselves! It gives us motivation to carry on with our own projects that we may have stalled out our just flat out lost motivation on! You guys keep producing and we'll keep watching!
Can't wait to see the M3 engine teardown and rebuild video series. You should definitely rebuild the motor you already have.
is very hard to get all the metal out of a blown engine, have tried it myself, after a day of cleaning absolutley everything and tanking the block, it ate the bearings within 50 miles -_-. maybe cheaper in the long run to get a motor that hasnt had that sort of demise >
Looking forward to your upcoming LS swap videos!!
Haha not this car but LS car coming next year!
Honestly one of my fav build series on RUclips in a very long time. Sad to see the 2 cars could not go head 2 head but excited to see more in the future. Both cars are incredible and glad to see them getting quality work done. Cool to see the cars built around a track and road build, best of both worlds.
This is why Nick and I are developing the K-Swaps for the 987/997 Porsches. The reality is that the low cost of entry into this level of German performance cars is ultra appealing, but there is a significant financial risk that is magnitudes higher than if you pop a K24 etc.
That is logical financial sense, well done gentlemen! Keep it going!
Hey I know you're devastated about the BMW but I think we all enjoyed the content knowing this would likely be the outcome, its just too bad it happened before the battle. Great series. Would love to see a Honda Fit build!
send that engine to I Do Cars for a teardown :)
So the 2011+ M3's need rod and main bearings replacements. People are now discovering this as the car is getting older. The mains wear and send crap to the rods which prematurely wears the rod bearings. The older "pre aluminum bearing cars" don't have this issue.
This is crazy. I literally was like “ Yikes, e92 rod bearings” when you guys first announced this series. And here we are with spun bearings
Next project: K-swap the M3.
Nah coyote swap would be dope asf though. Still a high rev v8
As an F31 wagon and S2K owner, that's a BMW and a Honda for people not in the know, I was looking forward to this battle. I am gutted for you Pete, but looking forward to more content. Best of luck! Thanks for keeping it real with us.
F31! I want one to compliment my RC F. Which model do you have?
@@ogmechsftw 2017 with the B46 model on BM3 stage 1. It makes a great daily!
Lots of wheel spin coming out of the corners, I knew that would be an issue as soon as I saw the supercharger lol. Was really surprised when you didn’t go with big cams and an ITB setup.
I think there may have been some other issues regardling it's oiling. A full tear-down by a professional could probably tell the story. In any case guys, I feel for ya. On a brighter note that Civic is pretty daggone sweet. Like... really sweet.
This is why I got rid of my e92 m3. Such a cool car, but I was always worried about catastrophic failures like this. I had bad luck with the other common issues (throttle actuators) so I knew it was a matter of time before the rod bearings destroyed the engine (which is like half the value of the car to replace). I'm personally back in a Honda, s2000 is so fun without the BMW stress.
my buddy just threw a rod bearing on his s2k and bought a spare motor with the same failure. Look after your maintenance, they're starting to do it too.
ap1? @@nickw1957
Not only finding one of those engines wont be easy but also finding one thats from a reputable source because they aren't cheap and don't want to spend that kind of money just to find out the motor has issues so definitely worth taking ur time finding the right one for the right price
Can't it be rebuilt?
These motors are very accessible. Lots of them around.
@@TassieLorenzoyes, but 8f it's spun mains your probably up for a block, crank, rods, oil pump, coolers and everything else. No way your getting out of it for under $15 - $20k to do it properly, so sometimes a second hand motor is the cheaper option, but you run the same risk of it happening again.
It sounds like the engine is expensive and then all of the extra reinforcement to ensure it won't fail doubles that cost. Doesn't seem at all worth it. Seems way too easy for human error to also cause failure aside from the glass cannon engineering design.
Should do a c5 or c6 vette project. Pretty unbeatable for the price and reliable.
The engine blowing up was very unfortunate but i'm glad that you guy still were able to be up front with everyone. As well as using this experience to remind people that just because something cost a certain amount of money you also have to factor in the cost of maintenance and failures. Great video, hope to see both cars get fixed and further refined.
Dam that kraftworks blower was really making all the right noises that thing also sounds insane i love it the in car noises were lovely from both cars 😍
Thank you guys so much for making this series! Stuff happens and we’ve all dealt with it too!
Destrok 6.0l(4.8 crank) LS with the dct would be cheaper and a great build and they can rev!
Love the build series❤ sucks for the BMW :/ this is the unfortunate reality when pushing cars to the limit.
One suggestion on your future videos. Maybe when your on the track you can get some shots of the car in action and not just cockpit video. I feel like that’s what your final track videos have been missing and it would be cool to see the cars from the outside.
"this is the unfortunate reality when pushing cars to the limit" It's an M3 though... M for Motorsports no less. Surely the S65 is more than capable of handling circuit driving?
It's a design flaw, like many in later model BMW's. These things are not built for the track out of the box. You need a late model Porsche for that, or ironically a Honda
I ALWAYS look forward to your builds. Great differences in platforms too, I'm sure everyone appreciates that. Detailed builds shed light on a lot of solid cars. Thanks guys! Keep up the fun!
Thanks very much to Speed Academy for the super content! Not the same issue, but my 2008 E92 335 would fry its high pressure fuel pump when I turned left at moderate speeds with less than a quarter tank of fuel. Six fuel pumps were replaced over a period of seven years. I owned 2 other Bimmers previous to that and sadly, if the the check-engine light wasn't on something was wrong. There was much to like about every model but I coudn't deal with the unreliability any longer so moved on to Porsche and couldn't be happier.
Wheels choices for both cars are 🔥
Aftermarket oil cooler(s) for track use on the M3 will be insurance for the rebuilt engine. Maybe dry sump oil system + cooler.
I have the same problem with my FA5 Civic Si. It's also an 08 model year and I find the same as you, the ABS is very very strange with that lock out. It's definitely the bumps, as you mentioned. I even changed the front springs and dampers but it didn't really change it at all
Would also happen to my 09 FA5 just on the street. Always a bump that triggered it.
i’ve had it happen on my ‘10 as well
same, if you hit a bump or get unstable at a stop it will lock up like that. I don't know why. 10' FA5
Is the programming different in the Civic Si ABS controller than the Civic Type R ABS controller? I don't think I've heard of it being an issue on FD2 Type Rs, but maybe I just haven't come across it?
fd2 is completely diff im guessing, had factory brembo@@TassieLorenzo
As I said earlier, I’m on team Honda, but man, was it devastating to see the M3 fail 😢 We all can learn a lot from these vids: if you go racing, brakes, rubber and lubrication first.
Here's hoping you guys do an Altezza or IS300 build in the future. An Altezza VS IS300 build off and track battle would be sick. My prayers go out to Pete. But somehow happy to see Dave get a win. After all, a win is a win, even when it's not the way we wanted it. Thank you for all the great content.
Thank you!
Beams vs 2jz
My E90 M3 goes in for new bearings this week 😬 Sorry for the loss. The pain radiated through the screen :(
Great content, great video, things happen sometimes but overall I enjoyed this build series. 😊 one of my favorite car RUclips channels cuz I feel like it's a real people building a real cars. 👊
Too bad about rod bearing failure. As you noted skipping the measurement to assure proper clearance wasnt the best idea. We have had ours for 114 kmiles and did bearings @ 80k. Blame the stock pagid blues for the fading brakes you noted since they are more a street pad. If you use the pagid rs19 then can run consistently all day at the track.
I absolutely love this particular build series, owning both a Honda K series and BMW M car, I know the struggle! Maintaining a BMW is essentially the cost of building a racecar out of my Honda. I love both of them for different reasons and I will continue to dump money into both of them :)
13:58 The drifting GT-Four was just too cool haha!
Your resilience is truly inspiring! -- "Challenges are part of the path."
As cool as these two cars are, the Celica GT4 at the beginning has my heart!
Love how real and knowledgeable you guys are. Large reason I keep coming back. True, passionate car enthusiasts!
Regarding the motor failure, you may have had main bearing failure and not the rods.
On a positive note you knocked it out of the park on the Civic build, I hope it stays around for a long while
“Ugh man what a motor”…. 10 seconds later blows up
A BMW overheating? No wayyyyyy...
Interesting match-up though! I'd love to see this happen! Good luck getting back up.
It's almost like they tried to track a stock bmw.... wonder what would have happened if they did as much mods as the civic, hell even half the mods, I bet the bmw would still be drivable.
It is M car made from factory to handle track use.
@CL9k24a3 is it really? Would have never known. What else can you tell us captain obvious?
@@marshal7376 they did the rod bearing which was supposed to keep them safe if they would’ve done the same to the M3 as the civic it would’ve lasted a lap.
@jordyariaszapata6124 slapped bearings in without measuring is one if the worst things I could think you could do to critical components like that. But whatever not my car.
Civic sounds so good!
That engine failure could have happened on the road too... it's not like you pushed it that hard...
So sorry, PT. As a BMW fanboy myself, it's difficult to watch a rod bearing issue take the whole motor with it. That being said, it may give you the opportunity to turn it into additional content either by throwing a new motor in it or even possibly doing one of your famous K series or 2J swaps. Love watching whatever you guys do, no matter what!
Yea bro...as a fanboy it's also difficult to see him disappointed over a car he though had so much potential😢
Please no 2jz sh*t swap!!! B58 will do much better!
Track battle straightaway thumbs up 👍
Probably should have left the original rod bearings in it. Might have been fine.
Didn't you install arp rod bolts?? They always recommend checking the rods for roundness after install just like their main cap studs etc because the extra clamping makes them out of round. Sadness either way, it sounded strong and amazing
Yeah, your supposed to get Rods resized and main bearings line honed when you use are rod bolts/main studs, and cylinder bores bored/honed with torque plates in place if you are using arp headstuds is recommended as well
Lol bingo...
This was my thought aswell. However the number one main bearing is also common to flunk out so will be interesting to see the carnage.
That civic looks great in the champ-white. Beautiful contrast with the wing and wheel setup also.Thinking of that colour insteadof Alpine white for my E30 now.😂
Pepper white off a Mini is a similarly nice white with some warmth to it.
@@dln.sweeney slightly 'yellow' compared to the other whiter whites isn't it? Worth considering too though.
@@teamphashash It is, but so is championship white compared to alpine white
This is definitely a crappy outcome, but I always appreciate the honesty you guys bring to the table. I'm a German car/BMW guy, but you guys continue to build cars across all spectrums that I dig on. The Civic turned out to be a monster, and it's a great analysis of the different approaches. Keep up the great content, and I can't wait to see where the M3 ends up. Skipping the engine concern, I'd be curious to see how the two would stack up with a little more spent on M3 to even up the budgets.
dang. keep your heads up. we’re all gonna stick around to see what’s next!
I hate to say it but we did mention it was a huge mistake changing youre fasteners on your rods without resizing the big ends... sorry it turned out like this but could have been avoided. I mentioned it in your last video, this isn't uncommon knowledge.
I feel like you need to be asking questions of the outfit that did the bearings, whether they checked all the clearances etc. Also, if you've watched any of Streten's E92 M3 series you'll also know that main bearings on the S65 can be a big issue, definitely worth investigating.
This is my favorite channel on RUclips! Don’t give up!
I have both of these cars, my fd2 supercharged running 400bhp was already far superior than my E92 M3 which I had mapped and carbon inlet running around 440bhp. The M3 has Ap 6pot brakes front 4pot rear, kW variant 3 coilovers and loads of other stuff for track and Honda only had a charger on it and it was massively quicker already and much more of a drivers car, since then I have gone all forged engine, bigger charger with front mount intercooler, LSD, changed the gears. Fully stripped, cage and one bucket seat running over 550bhp and weighs just under 1200kg and changed the brakes for custom Ap setup all round with Nitron coilovers and polybushed the whole car and there's not much that can touch it in this form unless it's a very long straight like at the nurgburgring when the only thing that took over me was a Porsche GT as my Honda was topped out at around the 160mph. Amazing car, was magazine featured also. These fd2 civic's are very capable cars and shock a few racing drivers. ( with the correct tyres fitted ) that can handle the speed and not spin the tyres, doesn't drive like a fwd car, more rear wheel drive which I love about it. Keep the posts coming, love them
Felt the pain 😭😭 I have both bwm and Honda. My bwm has been repaired over 7 times vs the civic, none.
Still the most real channel on the internet
That's a big bummer with that BMW. Could you drain the oil and measure how much oil was actually in there? I hate that those don't have a dipstick
Main bearing wear is a problem on the S65 engine. If one of the main bearings was already worn badly, it will spin and starve the adjacent rod bearing causing that to spin. Unfortunately, replacing rod bearings on this engine is much easier and less costly than replacing main bearings, labor wise. Finding a donor convertible M3 with a good engine shouldn't be too difficult and it should make the engine replacement cost manageable.
Consider doing a head to head on track against each other as well as the lap times to highlight the differences of how the cars get their times. Don't have to go for passes just cat and mouse would be entertaining.
Main bearings. They have been known to fail shorly after changing the rods as increasing the clearance causes pressure drop to the mains. Mostly happens to lci cars with the later style bearings.
Did you check the oil filter after changing the bearings? Maybe the bearing wasn't set correctly and it was wearing before the race. Maybe run thicker oil?
It being a LCI e9x M3, BMW changed the bearing material structure and it lead to a harder more robust bearing, the issue is that on the LCI s65, they are also known but not as common in rod bearing. To have main bearing 1 and 2 go out as well due to also being a harder bearing that is less forgiving. M539Restorations also explains it in very good detail
Over the past few years I have gotten into the habit of buying well used cars and restoring them. For instance, I recently purchased a Volkswagen Jetta wagon that was being parted out not running. I rebuilt it after paying $600 for it. I rebuilt it for about $3000 and it is called WIC and it’s like brand new that is way better than buying a new car
Sorry about the m3 :(. That thing is a fantastic car.
For the civic, would be cool to see you throw a proper diff in there and borrow an FL5 locally to do a track battle. Kind off old with mods vs new out of the box.
not sure all that you guys did to the M3 but I have a '08 E90 with 160k miles and did my rod bearings, complete service front to back, street/performance tires, new rotors and Hawk track pads. My oil was topped off before I took it to the track and after I left the track I noticed I was down almost 2/3 of a quart from full. I'm surprised you went to the track with out topping it off, I had no issues with brakes or engine performance. Was an amazing day and felt really good.
I had the same thoughts about the seats though because of the weight I was really rolling around in my seat.
Just watched this and so sorry the M3 couldn't finish. Great build series overall. Can't wait to see what happens next.
I really enjoy all of your content and keep it up!!!
Sorry to hear about the motor guys!. Those other two M3's that were being pounded on that day were me and my buddy lol. I did not even know you guys were there that day would have been nice to meet you guys. I would love to do a collab one day if you guys are interested. Almost at 100K subs
I'am a BMW M3 & Honda Si fanatic & actually own the same car & a 2000 Honda Si. To be honest I was skeptic on how it would perform so the moment you went "oooh oooh" I felt for you! This was a great build series can't wait to see the M3 back.
Dam the in car footage the M3 sounded absolutely sick and those crisp DCT shifts untill the unfortunate events occurred
One of those bitter sweet days……… at least you guys show the warts and all, well done
Just an fyi I had an 08 civic si. Pretty much bone stock and hitting bumps while braking would ALWAYS upset the abs. Kinda wished the car didn’t have abs. It was really frustrating when just driving normally around town.
May want to look into 660 fluid and a Ferodo pad setup.
Build series is great, trash talk is great, cars get on dyno, most make it through dyno session, cars get to the track, one fails on track, therapy session after to cope with what happened, apologies, next time will be better, rinse, repeat. hahaha
Still love the videos but I will say my fingers are crossed for one of these future build series to actually have both cars complete the track event with a close battle. Well done!
i was driving a similar car/setup for CSCS this year and i did 1:17.6. that civic for sure has more in it!
Really enjoyed this series! Not much of a Honda guy but would like more build like these.
Oh, a lot of the parts for the jetta Ave rebuilt I got at the junkyard except for the engine parts like timing belts, and so on
I bet its number one main bearing that failed which caused the rod bearings to go as well, it's to do with the timing chain tension at high rpm causing the most load on the upper number one main bearing.
DP is always really humble I bet if it was the other way Pete would of ripped him a new one.😅
Yes
How are the condition of the vanos covers? I assume they have not been replaced? It’s a relatively new concern with these motors. But when these brittle old plastic covers do fail, pieces of it can fall into the sump and block the oil pump pickups resulting in oil starvation.
That's horrible! Wouldn't wish an engine failure on anyone...
You're a real pro though...handling it a lot better than I would.
This video definitely reminds me of the scare I had when I heard some knock, for me fortunately turned out to be an ac compressor. Soon after, did the rb job.
6:46 - “man what a motor”
7:04 - “this motors dead guys”
Sorry about that bad luck, but I did chuckle a tiny bit at the timing of the comments.
Crazy that the boosted high mileage civic held up, but the Beamer broke. I love the e series cars but I’ll never buy another. Definitely a newer f series next time around.
This series was great. I love the sound of the M3, the engine note and gearbox were epic. Sorry to hear that it spun a bearing... just BMW things.. Bit preplexed though, given you did preventative maintenance and changed them out..
I'd have bought a nice IS-F to compete with the Civic, although the chassis isn't perhaps as sweet as the M3's, the 2UR-GSE is by far the more reliable engine with a nice torque/capacity bump.
Bummer! That battle would've been great to have happen
Looks like someone made a mistake on that bearing install. Not common for a well working broke in motor to just fail like that. The bearings being done is just too coincidental. Those S65s are made to rev alllll day.
As for the Civic... pull the ABS fuse and get rid of it intervening!
Both cars are awesome, but what a bummer that the car gods conspired to blow motors and spread sickness.
Damn huge blow. So weird that motor gave out after being serviced. Its heartbreaking,I have an e46 m3 and did the rod bearings not long ago. Hope you come back stronger!
Ran low on oil, pure and simple. You mentioned the oil level was a little over half, that half sloshed away from the oil pump pickup tubes in the corners.
Making sure you have full oil for a track day is key, adding 500ml on top of that is a safety for hard cornering.
Enjoyed the series nonetheless.👍🏻
You can hear a true feeling of disgust. Sucks the engine went man. I am rooting for the Honda but by no means is it cool for any car to break. Big financial setback. You guys got this!
The reality just makes this channel even more interesting. Keep up the good work guys
Sorry about the M3 Pete, which rod bearings did you use? I know there's a package out there that sells ACL bearings with slightly more clearance in them that is supposed to remedy the problem
I wonder if the crankshaft was bent and that could be a cause of it. I have done this repair and have never had a failure. Get the crankshaft polished or ground and get oversized bearings to fit.