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Why Darth Plagueis & Tenebrous ABSOLUTELY HATED the Rule of 2 (The Fatal Flaw Explained)
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“Master, would you consider training someone in the Sith arts to execute whatever missions are required?”
“Another Venamis? In defiance of our partnership?”
Sidious shook his head. “Not an apprentice; not someone who could ever aspire to become a true Sith Lord. But someone skilled in stealth and combat, who could be eliminated when no longer needed.”
Surprise shone in Plagueis’s eyes. “You already have someone in mind.”
“You instructed me to keep an eye out for beings who might prove helpful. I found such a one on Dathomir not a year ago. A male Dathomiri Zabrak infant.”
“Many Zabrak demonstrate strength in the Force. By nature, it would seem.”
“This infant does. The mother birthed two and sought to save one from the clutches of the Nightsisters, especially from one known as Talzin.”
“You purchased him?”
“Accepted him.”
“Where is he?”
“I brought him to the accounting facility that Damask Holdings maintains on Mustafar, and left him in the care of the custodial droids.”
Plagueis closed his eyes briefly. Mustafar had served as a place to dispose of enemies and evidence long before Boss Cabra’s reclamation station had been made available to Hego Damask and others.
“And the mother?” he asked.
“Alive-for now.”
“Might not this Talzin pursue the infant?”
Sidious looked inward. “She may.”
Plagueis growled in irritation. “Then it will be your business if she does.”
Sidious bowed his head in acceptance.
“Leave the infant on Mustafar in the care of the droids,” Plagueis added at last, “but begin to train him. Inure him to pain, Lord Sidious, so that he will be able to serve us fully. Should his Force talents fail to mature, eliminate him. But if he measures up, relocate him at your discretion to Orsis. There you will find an elite training center operated by a Falleen combat specialist named Trezza. He and I have had dealings. Trezza will raise the Zabrak to be fierce but steadfast in his loyalty. You, however, will supervise his training in the dark side. Do not speak of the Sith or our plans until he has proven himself. And do not deploy him against any of our salient enemies until I have had a chance to evaluate him.”
Sidious inclined his head. “I understand, Master.”
“The Force provides, Sidious,” Plagueis said after a moment. “As nature provides more male beings in the aftermath of war, the Force, ever mindful of balance, provides beings strong in the dark side when light has ruled for too long. This Zabrak bodes well.”
“The Sith Lords who follow us will pay tribute to your wisdom, Master,” Sidious said in earnestness.
Brilliant 👍
@@vitorpereira9515 honestly that's actually pretty impressive, Maul wasn't even given a whole Sith training and still managed to be strong
Not readin allat 🤣🤣🤣
(I’m kidding that was pretty neat)
yo that’s so badass thank you
Am I alone when I say Plagueis wasn't just deathly afraid of death, but, like Maul, wanted a familial relationship or brotherhood with Palpatine? On the surface, he'd be using him--from Palpatine's POV--but I believe that he had every intention of sharing EVERYTHING with Palpatine.
In a way, he DID share everything with Sidious…and being true to the Rule of Two, he eliminated Plagueis when he was no longer needed
@@danielgaul284 He made the same mistake Maul made and Anakin would later make: trying to be in a relationship with a pure sociopath.
@@ericthomas6726 I wonder if Maul was ever aware of Sidious being a sociopath (going by the G-canon or C-canon, not the T-canon like TCW)
Excellent comments.
I think initially he saw him as a tool, but eventually he grew to be fond of the guy. He was considered an outcast in his family (though he admits to fudging some details) and he was passed to a Sith master who dismissed him. Maybe some small part of him wanted companionship
The Rule of Two requires the members to have traits that are normally foreign to the dark side. It demanded the patience and selflessness to oversee a plan that the current sith may never see in their lives. The dark side, to me, is more about immediate gratification of desire and revelry in the power you currently possess. Generations of planning could have been easily derailed if one sith master was too arrogant and attempted to overthrow the Jedi too soon.
To be a true sith requires the utmost dedication, belief, and sacrifice. Far from the quick and easy path that jedi will tell you.
Ironic how the sith were the ones truly dedicated to there cause to eventual rise and the jedi downfall was complacency...
Have you heard the tragedy of Plagueis the wise?
I think the Jedi meant that welding the dark side is the easy and quick path. Not necessarily becoming a Sith.
It does require you to be also greedy and fucking up the next in line
@@billbob2899 "No."
"I thought not. Its not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend."
The dark side offers an easier path, but yes, being a Sith is far from simple
I am subscribed to 3 or 4 good Star Wars channels, but I like yours the best. Thanks for all the great videos.
Wow, thanks!
Agreed
They knew at the cusp of victory the rule ran it's course, served it's intended purpose. It worked as designed and once victorious another phase would be necessary.
This channel provides some of the best SW content presently
“Remember, the first and only reality of the Sith, there could only be two.”
How can it be the first reality of the Sith when they had existed for literally thousands of years before Darth Bane ever came about?
Well that’s how Palpatine said it in the clone wars,so
@@djnavarro3212 Palpatine is hardly someone to believe on his word though. Lying is kinda his thing.
“And you, are no longer my apprentice.. you have been.. replaced !”
@@wanderhillen2435he’s talking about the modern Sith. The phrasing can imply the Sith at any point in time. Considering what we know, he’s only referring to the Baneite era Sith
Darth Tenebrous is creepy as hell.
I can't take him seriously because his head looks like a butt.
Bane was a visionary, but he should have expected problems with his Rule of Two as the end of the plan drew near. Power for power's sake is both a strength and a weakness of the Sith Order. The Sith that conquered the galaxy would never want to pass on that power, and, as a result, doomed the Rule of Two. Vader was a poor choice for an apprentice, his love and attachment to his wife made him unsuitable, he even mentioned overthrowing Sidious with Padme. This was not a man that was worthy of the Sith lineage.
Bane was not a man who believed in honor l, but he had it from a certain point of view and expected his lineage to honor his vision for the sith. Because of this flaw in his ideology, the sith were always doomed to fail even if they succeeded.
Bane was an idiot though, and the rule of 2 only succeeded through sheer luck/plot armor. Having only two Sith at a time is extremely risky idea, what if a master dies via accident before managing to pass on sufficient knowledge/power to their apprentice or even before finding a proper apprentice? That is the end right there. Even if you handwave the risk of eg shuttle accidents away with "that wouldn't happen to someone strong in the force", there are several instances *in the canon lore* where a misbehaving Sith lord set the whole plan back by centuries.
@@wanderhillen2435 I have argued the same thing myself several times.
And the answer I always get is "but holocrons".....as if the Sith holocrons are just really easy to get your hands on.
It really makes you wonder why sabotage of a starship wasnt used to kill the master more frequently. We have a mine collapse, killing a drunk guy after he passes out, and cheap shot attempts. Seems like very few actually believe they are powerful enough to just beat down their master the way Bane intended.
@@noahblevins9569the thing is, no matter how powerful you are, luck and unexpectedness aren't uncommon, Dooku was surrounded by a horde of pirates who could give a run for his money, Anakin even with everything going with him lost to Kenobi, Mail was still caught off guard by an barely Jedi Knight and many more
Sidious broke the law of two, he took vader only because of his midichlorian count and nothing else.
If they hated the Rule of Two, why didn’t either Character just say “fuck this Rule of Two bullshit, Darth Bane is Dead, time to destroy his legacy and restore the Sith order like we had in The Old Republic”
Because while they hated the concept of the Rule of Two, the idea that they were only pieces in a larger pyramid, they acknowledged that it kept them hidden from the Jedi. Creating a Sith Empire of old or even an empire similar to that of Maul would bring the Jedi on track. They wuld have an enemy that they could directly fight and sooner or later they would discover the Sith.
Also, they recognized the flaws of the old (pre-Bane) Sith Order; too many Dark Lords had failed because of the ambitions and infighting among their followers. Plagueis announced to his dying master that he would create a new Sith Order of his own design (presumably under the Rule of One); however, like Darth Krayt later on, Plagueis failed to recognize a fatal flaw in the Rule of One - that the greatest danger to the Dark Lord was within the ranks of the very Sith he would create.
@@danielgaul284 A man of culture 👏
Great video as always !
Yeah, Plagueis dissolution of Sith Tradition was so bad Marka Ragnos's Spirit itself appeared before him and had a rage at him. When Marka Ragnos himself is pissed at you, you should know you fucked up.
Explain
@@Eric6761 I believe it's in the Book of Sith Plagueis's Chapter explain's he visited Korriban and no spirits would contact him. But just before he left Marka Ragnos's spirit appeared and was basically enraged due to Plagueis's disrespect towards Sith/Korriban Tradition, Plagueis ignores him and tries to get answers to his own questions but Marka Ragnos snarls and refuses to answer then disappears. Afterwards Plagueis believes it was most likely a trick of him mind, but Marka Ragnos's spirit has a tendency to appear before Sith so it was most likely him.
@@aster4jaden Oh yeah I remember the story, I forgot his name and honestly Plagueis is the definition of the guy who can't admit his wrongs
Love the legends lore
I love the sith lore videos
thanks for making this I listen to the audiobook version of Darth Plagueis every night to help me sleep the deep narration voice is just perfect for sleeping
I would argue that Sidious also didn't really follow it all that closely. He followed the part to prevent a powerful member sure, but he also purposely sabotaged the training of the apprentices he trained, he only used them as assassins, he kept many of the higher knowledge to himself, like what Plagueis did to him. He had absolutely no intention of dying either. Plus, he committed open heresy with the superweapons he kept building, sith looked down on tech, so the death star was actually massive heresy that Vader called him out on.
@thestupendouswave big props to you for using the word penultimate correctly.
Tenebrous and Plagueis always sound like quite the arrogant duo.
If not for Anakin the chosen one I think the rule of 2 might have benefited Plagues and his master
9:53 that image or Tenebrous is always nightmare inducing for me- idk why but it is lmao.
He looks like something from a b-movie. So dark side wielder who looks like he wants to drag you into the water and eat you... Yeah unsettling
Coming up with rules about how The Force should be used by dark side users kind of defeats the point. They're supposed to be able to do as they desire with their power. Not all Sith were outlandishly evil, either. I agree with Plagueis, science should have been done about how the force functioned.
Awesome vid, rule of 2 sith had such interesting lives
Its interesting to me that Plagueis had a keen eye for Dooku as a potential replacement for Palpatine. But look at how things changed.
Maul was used as the catalyst from Sidious to fet rid of a threat (Qui Gon) and fully convince Dooku to join him as an apprentice.
I admire the writing from Tenebrous's time all the way to the fall of the empire so much. Such splendid storytelling from the Sith.
Why can't w get cool movies like this
What do you say is the best lightsaber form? And if you were to make a perfect lightsaber, what crystal, design, and material would make the lightsaber?
Every form has its strengths and weaknesses; some are designed to counter another (like Form II countering Form IV, like Dooku and Yoda, or Form III countering Form V, like Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader), and each has a time/place in which they are best utilized
@@danielgaul284 but what if you were to choose one to have?
@@Starline9212 for myself, I’m more concerned with the color of my blade; I’d go with either green (the path of a Jedi Consular) or orange (a variant of yellow, the path of a Jedi Sentinel)
Form 6 but use it as a sith like exar khun. He randomly switches all lightsaber forms. Jedi don't use form 6 right. Lightsaber ...single hilt double blade that can split for jarcai(dual wielding). Exar khun unlike maul had a doul blade saber small enough for one hand ,speed was crazy. 2 cortosis guantlets for fun!
@@ronalddavis8728 why form six and the lightsaber staff that Darth Maul had?
is it possible for plaguies to complete his essence transfer before he died?
Haven’t read the book but ideally yes
Heck Yeah!
It was my understanding that both Plageuis and Prunepatine discarded the rule of 2 completely. Plageuis was trying to live forever and didn't care for an apprentice, as you say. As for Prunepatine... I didn't get the impression he had any care at all for his apprentices, constantly trading up. He took in Maul but only used him like he had been used, as a tool rather than a true apprentice. He then had Dooku but he was just another tool to get his plans to overthrow the Jedi and Republic, quickly trading up to get Anakin. And when Anakin was beaten just as all the plans were coming together, he was again just another tool to be discarded until a new apprentice would show, i.e. Blondie McFarmboy. And going on to the sequels, which I prefer not to think of as canon, his plan was to possess his granddaughter to rule the galaxy again when he too had become a shadow of his former self. Even in the Expanded Universe, he ended up returning by possessing a cloned body so he could rule the galaxy again and tried to convince Grand Master Dork to join him, which he almost did. So yeah, one could say that the downfall of the Sith arguably came from Tenebrous who scared Plageuis into trying to find immortality, which almost completely stepped over the rule of 2 because as long as the master and the apprentice manage to not kill each other, though I doubt that would happen in their case, there would be no need to find new Sith as they would lead forever until they were too mentally drained to care about life or death and end up getting killed off in some trivial way. I'm not particularly fond of the rule of 2. Yes, it helped to hide them until they were ready to strike and that's good. But it had served its purpose. The Sith could have returned like in the days before Bane and the galaxy would be driven into a war between Sith trying to one up each other. It would be dark and brutal but it would be a staying true to Sith nature. Sith need to be in constant battle, conflict spurring them on to grow stronger in mind, body and soul to reach greater heights and prepare the next generation to grow even further beyond. With just the two hoarding power, it became stagnant and fell apart. It took two Sith to eliminate tens of thousands of Jedi. Then it took one Jedi two take down those two Sith, one way or another.
This why I love your videos you teach me somethings I don't know.
Though they did disrespect the Rule of Two, it isn't necessarily a bad thing(as if something about the Sith could be "not bad", lol). The Rule of Two had its flaws, and, as we saw with Palpatines fate, was a double-edged sword. The Sith wielded this sword long enough to cut themselves, which result in their ultimate death as a religion.
But what interesting, is the scientific perspective on the Force of Tenenrous and Plagueis. Plagueis didn't even need to worship the Force to use it, and he came close to the extreme point of the Dark Side, when his will would have dominated the will of the Force. If he succeeded, he wouldn't just rule the Galaxy, he would enslave the Force itself.
Now that's something I would like to see
Funny thing is, there is hardly have ever,if ever, just two according to all of the lore additions
The bith sith scientist just rolls right off the tongue. Now you try.
Star Wars would easily make millions if they got bought out by anyone except Disney. For example if they got bought out by DC comics I could easily see them making a movie about the Sith like Tenabrous , plaugeous and Malgus . I would love to see movies of those characters.
I’m with you on disney, but you say that as if DC hasn’t been royally screwing up their own cinematic universe for like the last decade xD
@@JaysMCworld I understand but anything is better than Disney . It’s the reason marvel sucks now too since they bought it out . At least dc is not a part or Disney. They ruin life period . Like I said anything but Disney.
Nothing compared to he POWER OF MANYYYYYYYYY!!!
1:30 that a bit a rhyming
i to loath bane for destroying sith artifacts to create the rule of two. i did not know they shared my thoughts.
Darth sidious created the rule of one and destroyed the rule of two and the line of bane .
Actually darth Kryat did.
@@lorenzor7993 Then why didn't he teach Vader everything he knew? Why hide his master from Vader and only vaguely mention him ? Vader was a pawn to sidious and not a successor.
@@BI-11y_TheStormTrooper bruh I know that. I'm talking about Krayt. Sidious intended for Vader to be his successor and after he found out Vader had a son, he wanted Luke as his new successor. Sidious did not create the rule of one. Krayt did after him.
In a way tenebrous's calculations was right about that dark shadow and the birth of the chosen one and how the sith no longer remaining hiding
Why cant stars be like this now… makes me sad what could of been should of been
They aren't completely wrong about the Rule of Two; it had significant flaws that contributed to its downfall. They would have been better off adopting a modified version of the Dark Brotherhood, one that encouraged competition while recognizing the natural rise and fall throughout life. This approach would have fostered growth and development in power without wasting valuable allies and perspectives.
If darth tenebrous had become the emperor of the galaxy I wonder how much chance the events of Star Wars
My favorite scene is where the orange whaleman ship smashes into the bridge of the star destroyer and then it crashes into the new Death Star.
So the original plan wasn't order 66 but to rule 1st and get rid of the jedi later.
Nice thx! 👍👍👍👍
The "rule of 2" has been perverted by Disney Wars. It is not in a Sith's nature to do something for someone else. That's a Jedi. Sith selfish Jedi selfless.
Go over Darth Gaen and her Master a how Vernestra maybe Darth Gaen via essence transfer
In the words of Darth Revan, strife is the greatest strength and weakness of the Sith. Although the Rule of Two unfathomably maximize the strength of the Sith, it only mitigated their weakness to a far lesser degree.
I really want to know who was Darth Tenebrous master
Do you guys have a link for art used from 8:23?
looks like a concept for my new sleeve :D
Day 540 of asking for a part 3 of what if anakin was trained by qui gon
Plagueis is the Favorite 😡
It was probably an obvious foreshadowing that palps and Anny would be the last of the rule of 2 since Anny made things akward by blowing up the death Star and all.
So are we getting Darth Venomous in the Acolyte?
Darth Krayt rule of one baby!
i think darth tenebrous is right
The power of one, the power of two, the power of many 😂
Was the dark shadow that Tenebrous saw Palpatine?
Interesting
w vid
Unpopular opinion but I love the fact that Darth Tenebrous and Darth Venamis are Bith
Where are you getting your information about Darth Ten?
I laughed when I heard plagues dissing ancient sith
The sith were at their prime under vitiate. They wrecked everything in there path
dont stop calling us acolytes, dont let them take it from u!
Sith are too selfish, they can’t cooperate
I'll give the Acolyte this, it has me reading "Plagueis." Although i guess it's more of the online speculation than the show. I still think the mother is alive and may be the Sith Lord. If they change Plagueis from the head of some Medici like banking cartel, to a black lesbian head of a weird female hippy commune, then tinfoil hat wearers are right and this is actively trying to kill the entire IP.
With that said, I can see where all of Tenebrous' hatred and anger that he fed on came from. I mean, his head literally looks like the tip of an engorged…piece 🍆🍆. Very unfortunate.
They wanted the power of MAAAAANNNNNYYYYYYYY
They were both men of science. But the Sith, like the Jedi, is a religious order. The two do not easily mix.
I think if plagueis, Tenebrous and Palpatine & Maul instead killing each other worked on science and politics they would conquer world even further than empire sidious controlled, I don't think rule of two made them stronguer, but rather make them weaker, galaxy too big, they could have ruled together.
I'd argue Darth Tenebris was smarter and more cunning than both Plagueis and Sidious. His short coming was that he got too far ahead of himself, and lost sight of the present
Sideous ruined it as well
more
I say Plagueis is the more powerful Sith but Tenebrous was the better lightsaber master, now it is a bit unfair to really call that way but Darth Tenebrous love good fight and he trained his other trainee to be in expert in Plagueis’ style so that give tensament to the master’s skills while Plagueis agrently view lightsaber combat as waste of time something he passed down to the Emperor though there big of long term realist in both of their minds for they were good with lightsaber combat.
Incorrect. Darth Tenebrous respected the rule of two. He even said so when he and his apprentice Darth Plagueis were in the mines. But when an explosive reaction happened, Darth Plagueis made sure to use that accident to murder his master. It was Darth Plagueis the one who didn't believe in the rule of two. Darth Sidious believes in it as well. But since Darth Vader couldn't live up to the Sith traditions he abolished it as well.
A new fly in My endless webs come alone now there's a whole twisted world on the stage waiting for you let see if you are worthy to walk with the angels umhaahahahahahahaha
This video really confused me. So much of this information completely contradicts the Darth Plagueis book. Neither Tenebrous nor Plagueis "hated" the rule of 2. Sure, Plagueis believed it had become redundant because he was its culmination. But hated it? Tenebrous had a huge boner for Bane. He trained Venamis as a fail-safe because he thought Plagueis "didn't have the stomach" to challenge him for mastery.
Dude Palpatine was just as dumb as them in the long run if he let Vader hunt down yoda and obi Wan there would be no return of the jedi and his obsession with the death star was also really dumb over controlling everything with the dark side
Do they support the power of…mannnny?
So isn't Sidious breaking the rule of two as well by taking Maul as an apprentice while Plagueis was alive? Maul had to have been trained for a while before revealing himself to the Jedi in Phantom Menace.
Depends on your interpretation, for Plagueis, Mauls an acolyte like Ventress. For Palpatine, it’s a test of his masters perception and if it was time to usurp him if he couldn’t tell Sidious was undermining him.
It’s a bit ironic I believe that by the end plagueis was more powerful than tenebrous but at the point when he killed tenebrous I think he was actually weaker. He was probably more cunning than tenebrus was but I personally do not believe he was stronger at that point in time and actually kind of believe that he proved bane right about weaker sith using tricks to defeat a stronger master
It is my opinion that darth tenebrous was much stronger than plaguies was, and that that was what formed his opinion of giving the legacy of the sith to the newest apprentice. He could see stagnation within their order because he himself did not become more powerful than his master, until hust before his own death by the hands of his apprentice. The bitter irony that darth plaguies was faced with, was that he died at the hands of his lesser whom never even understood his research.
Sidious kept the order alive, and even achieved the grand plan but he was not more powerful
I see where you are coming from, but it was stated that Sidious was the most powerful of all the Banite lineage.
I do wonder if any of the more ancient Sith were overall more powerful than him.
@@noahblevins9569 vitiate was for sure more powerful
The rule of two wouldn’t able sustain an empire at all.
It’s the “rule of two” not the “hatred of two”. I knew you weren’t a true Star Wars fan.
The Rule of Two makes sense because before the Rule of Two all the Sith did was murder each other.
Please stop pretending there is canon anymore
Your conclusion is entirely backwards. Plageuis literally found immortality, the thing the sith have been looking for for 1000 years. Controlled life and death. Was powerful enough to influence the force to create life. He no longer needed sleep. He was increasing his midichlorian count. He would have been a God.
It is only because the weasel Sidious knew if he waited, he could never kill him, and it took drugs to do it. Ergo, Sidious was a step backwards, as he never replicated the power of his master.
Sidious is the very reason the Jedi won in the end. If Plageuis would have would have stayed alive or Sidious was powerful enough to match his master, the Jedi never could have won.
NNNNNNOOOOOOO
I love how darth plagues and Darth tenebrous hate everything without reason and are arrogant towards everything without reason 😂
Bro, they're Sith, they would basically dedicate a whole book chapter about how their world view is justified and how they should exerce control because a guy accidentally stepped on their foot and the guy forgot to apologize
@@Eric6761 plagues didn't respect the dark side itself and paid heavy price for it
@@darthsidius9631 every dark sider be like
Do you even know anything at this point plaguius didn't tenebrus did
I worded that wrong plaguius hated* his master did not
I thought that as well since plagueis himself intended on having Tenebrous be the last who would follow the rule of two with him going on to do away with it. Even Sidious himself quoted plagueis’ own words to tenebrous when he was killing him during the phantom menace. But I did search whether Tenebrous actually hated the rule of two and surprisingly it does indeed say that he and plagueis believed that the time for the rule of two had expired.
@@clank0ta404Yeah, and I think that is because they both had their own way of trying to live forever and being the last Sith lord.
And we see how that worked out for each of them.
I think they were both too full of themselves to believe they would be surpassed. Towards the end of the Banite lineage, it seems like they all want powerful followers, but want to be sure they arent fully capable of surpassing them.
It is the opposite of Bane, who got pissed off because he didnt think Zannah was surpassing him fast enough.
That is what makes Bane so interesting to me. He cared about the Sith so much he plotted a course to ultimate power that he knew he would never achieve for himself. And at the same time, he hated the Sith so much that he killed them all and tortured their souls for centuries.
I have often wondered what Bane would think or what he would do if he met Sidious at the completion of the grand plan.
@@clank0ta404 I may honestly have to start making vids because over 80% of this guys are incorrect it gives me so much content just to fix his 😂😂
The Rule of Two is dumb. There should be many Sith working together...like an orgy of goths armed with glow sticks of doom!
Tenebrous broke the rule yes and didn’t believe in it, plagueis still adhered to it even with his fear of death he isn’t the only sith who attempted to try and combat death. It’s another video that you’ve already remade but also one where you just wanna get over the line to put in ads, this channel has been going downhill for ages now
@check_profile37371 bro get a life
Though these lore videos are great they are simultaneously useless . Under Disney if it doesn't happen on screen it doesn't exist. For better or worse ( probably worse) this is the reality you have to except. Old eu lore , books or comics do not count as cannon sorry my friend but this is the rule of two that exists now
Hey.
S
Plagueis and Tenebrous were so wrong. Heretics even. They didn't respect their religion,history,artifacts. There can be only two. Only two true Sith. Sidious saved Rule of Two and the Sith. I think Plagueis was more powerful. May the Force be with you too,always😀
@thestupendouswave big props to you for using the word penultimate correctly.