The Aftermath of The Aftermath … Everything Is Gone! … Magic The Gathering Discussion MTG MOM MAT
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2024
- Discussing what happened with the actions taken by WOTC to confiscate the product from me. Let me know your opinions in the comments below.
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This is almost definitely illegal. Pinkerton is not a police force, they would not have had a warrant, which means they could not legally enter your home or seize your property. CALL A LAWYER ASAP!
Honest call the cops and watch the Pinkerton and the police ball it out
@@anhvu6824 respectfully I think you gotta brush up on your history if you think the cops and pinkertons are on opposing sides
Yeah I wouldve called the police. If they came into my house with my 5 kids then it might not go so well for them. The moment someone thought they could threaten me or come into my house somethings gonna happen.
@@RyRy2057 I know where I live they wouldnt side with someone coming in. They'd have to somehow have federal badges and I refuse to let ppl just step foot into my house where my kids are. No way
@@steevs7912 Damn staright!
Wizards sent private security to your house to seize your property. Of course Wizards is going to play nice because they don't want you to lawyer up.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
He should lawyer up even before posting the videos....
They chose to send the Pinkertons instead of picking up the phone. I mean, the Pinkertons found his home address, they could have used ANY other means than immediate accusation and physical intimidation. Remember folks, this is a TOY COMPANY.
This. You should sue them.
@@michaelmcguigan8223 He wont lawyer up. He wont even call one for a consult. Hasbro comes to fuck with his wife and like a good cuck he will just smile and take it. I feel sorry for his crying wife.
“Very nice and very laid back”
Proceeds to send a notoriously violent private corporate security firm to steal your property and intimidate you as your family.
WOTC handled this super poorly and so did Hasbro. I would be suing.
one hundred percent, I said in a comment here but it still galls me because unless someone did steal those boxes, which I doubt because then they'd be calling the cops not the pinkertons, then WotC is the one committing theft. They do not own the physical product after it's bought and paid for, if it was sent out by their error that's on them, doesn't matter if they own the IP.
Suing? Those thugs who stole from him should be jailed.
@werst12345wizards hired a private policing company to commit (most likely) armed robbery against a man who legally got the product.
"Very nice and laid back"
"Made my wife cry"
Fr the goon squad is sitting in the room with him as he records this
@Spencer Reed Illegal search and seizure, entrapment, trespassing, threatening family members could be assault, slander
Knowing the history of the Pinkertons, I wouldn't say that WotC sending them to your doorstep is a chill reaction on their side.
its florida meaning the pinkertons can kick fukin rocks.
Yeah, "sorry about sending a private army to your door to intimidate you with threat of force and lawsuits without reaching out first!"
yeah no kidding...
The Pinkertons, or anyone else stepping on my doorstep in Alabama can kick rocks. If they dont have the Sherriff with a warrant standing next to them, nah they can go right back home. Hell I wouldnt even know if they cast shade on my doorstep. I dont answer the door for anyone, EVER. I disconnected the doorbell years ago.
@@cavemantero Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Sounds like...
1) a lawsuit. You should talk to a lawyer since a toy company just sent the largest private security group on the planet after you.
2) If it was illegal then it would have been real cops so you could have told them "no"
3) sounds like a good reason to boycott all WotC items...
"Oh no there was a leak and something got out a month early" *sends largest thugs it can after you*
Sounds like they are out of their minds w power
Slow clap...
Right?!!! WTH?!!
Anyone still supporting WOTC in general must be masochists
I don’t think a mass-boycott would be an overreaction to this incident. Hasbro needs to get the message that this is extremely not OK, and a lawsuit ain’t gonna cut it.
Agreed. This is not okay. There were so many better ways they could have handled this. And it was THEIR mistake.
Agreed.
There were global boycotts and even protests when Hasbro sent bigshot lawyers after me in 2006. Times were different then, but there are similarities with this recent case.
@@drutterwhat happened?
For the record, Pinkerton are not "lawmen". They're private security, bound by the same laws as any other private citizen. They're not a police force. They're not allowed to force you to do anything or relenquish anything without a court order.
He knows. He said that in the beginning of the video.
Private security forces can't even act with a court order unless they are court appointed to action a warrant or subpoena.
@@katsumaeda5615 Yet he acted like they were law enforcement and then went on to talk positively about the corporation which made his wife cry and threatened him with violence over fucking trading cards.
I wouldn't even call them a private security group, they're straight up thugs
@@katsumaeda5615 i agree with carter below - he acted like they were law enforcement, and then complimented the corporation that sent literal thugs to his door. He doesn't get it at all LOL
Shouldn't have given them a thing, you purchased that product legally and they had no means to take it or threaten you for it. Should have stood your ground, and if they got rough with you even better. One grab, one push, one black eye, and Hasbro would have to settle a lawsuit worth millions.
yeah until the mercs decide to take it too far. pinkertons aren't known for playing nice.
Pinkertons are known for burying people in the grave. And they're usually not nice about it. They'd come back and be more armed.
@@TGPDrunknHick yeah theres a reason theyre the bad guys in rdr2 lol they literally only resort to cowardly methods
@@TGPDrunknHick good then that's criminal if you have have a spine and they get violent it's a field day for any lawyer yunno the police both of which likley will be very happy they were that stupid
@@marley7868 sure. doesn't fix broken bones or becoming crippled. or just dying because you got knocked over and hit your head on something the wrong way.
so yeah you might get money. It's up to you if it's worth the potential permant problems though.
When Yugioh was still airing on TV, I thought armed agents protecting trading cards & tournaments was ludicrous & funny. Now MTG is sending armed agents to prevent leaks of trading cards lol. What a time to be in!
Kaiba boy~ I’m sure you don’t mind my extra guests seeing themselves in~ fu fu fu~! They’re just there to ensure that Mokuba doesn’t… *have an accident~~!*
Do not accept anything from them "as an apology" or to "reimburse you". Contact a lawyer.
This is not legal.
100%
It’s 100% legal to knock on someone’s door. Which is all they did
bro stop pretending...jusT cause you got a keyboard and a certain degree of anonimity here. you wouldnt do shit. he, you and I would all have done the same: return the product and delete the video/make it private and accept compensation. You wouldnt have kept it or the video or you wouldnt even sue unless youre plain dumb. No way youre winning a case against Hasbro dummie, JUST STOP.
The problem is he already fucked up to start with. WOTC claims in a statement that they tried reaching out to him to begin with and did not receive a reply. On top of that, dude answered the door for the Pinkertons and rolled over. A lawsuit would do worse than nothing, he would lose that case in a heartbeat.
@@acedianPianist WotC is lying to save face. They made no legally acceptable attempt to contact him.
He rolled over after having been extorted and coerced into doing so. His wife was so scared and terrified that she was crying.
LAWYER UP. Do not let this blow over. This situation is ridiculous.
The problem is you knew who the Pinkertons were and so did WOTC before they sent them and they still sent them to your actual house. You were threatened multiple times, intimidated, actually everyone in the house was. Accused you of stealing...not sure I would have gave them anything.
I wouldn't send Pinkertons to a person's house unless I was willing to see them (and their family) murdered.
I wouldn't have let them in,or gave them anything. I live in the southw which is a curse and a blessing,I'd have a gun in thier face telling them to GTFO my property.
I wouldn't have opened the door. I would have just told them to get off my property and called the sheriff
"They were very nice."
"They made my wife cry."
"They threatened me with prison."
"They were very nice."
This guy is all over the place. Sounds like a victim who needs a Lawyer.
@Noctus i don't follow trading card games, does hasbro own WOTC?
Per Federal Law (FTC) you were not obligated to return the product and really shouldn't have.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
I agree with this from a legal perspective, but given the history of the Pinkertons he was infinitely safer just complying. Should definitely get some lawyers involves if he can though
@@lycanthrope182 if they try anything or attempt to enter, self defense.
@@rirtunsasgi2626 While you're not wrong, we're talking about the Pinkertons here. They have just straight up killed people who have pissed them off in the past.
@@lycanthrope182 so many people here just assuming you can get rough with MERCENARIES. these people are hired because they will get violent for the money. they aren't police or military. they don't fight for a cause. they will brutalise you for money.
Can they be "nice and laid back" about something that they immediately escalated to sending a private security firm to your door without attempting to contact you first?? I don't think that is how that works.
Also offering to compensate you with different product since they are essentially stealing from you at this point since you legitimately bought it is pretty bold of them. If they sent it out to someone early by accident that is on them, not the people that bought it from a retailer they sent it to.
Posting these early is stealing from wotc, is it not?
@@optimysticyet No.
@@optimysticyet No. The only thing that prevents products being released before a set date is that anyone who does it will be severely punished by the supplier. This is called "Breaking street" and is usually covered by the terms of the contract between the manufacturer and supplier. There is no law that prevents someone doing whatever they want with a product that has been sold and paid for (and therefore owned by the buyer), unless the buyer only purchased a licence to use the product, not ownership.
The only legal standpoint that could be claimed by WOTC is he does not have the rights to share the artwork and text on the cards, and is therefore breaching copyright. The artwork is licenced to the buyer and they do not have the right to distribute. However, there could be implied permission, because to actually play the game, you need to share information on the cards. Taking down the videos covers the legal side of this. Sending a security force which has a very well known negative reputation is not a DMCA takedown request. It's a statement.
You got strong armed. They should have compensated you or contractually agreed to compensate you prior to you returning what you had.
He was literally robbed, possibly at gunpoint. What they did was theft and someone should be in jail. Let the Sheriff/Police handle theft cases and private dicks can kick rocks. Per Federal Law he was not obligated to return the product and really shouldn't have. Which is why WotC didnt follow the law and circumvented it.
@@JimmyTheSaintDailyVideos Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Yeah, I'm no lawyer but I don't think Wotc has any sort of legal right that would let them seize someone's property like that.
This guy is too big of a dope to understand he is severely underreacting to the situation
You arent allowed to just claim you "paid" for it and keep it when you are in possession of stolen property. The product was not available for sale, easy to argue it was indeed stolen, and as such it needed to be returned. Even if someone did sell it to you legitimately, the owners are still allowed to reclaim their property.
Someone takes your bike, you dont just lose it as soon as they find a buyer. If it's yours its yours.
Wotc just played good cop bad cop with you. This was straight bullying on their part. The first response they should have had was not to send private security threatening jail time, it would have been to contact you via phone or email first. Don't go wasting your breath giving them any benefit of the doubt in this. It was a blatant bullying tactic.
"These bullies who threatened me with violence and made my wife cry were very nice. I talked to them afterwards on the phone!"
This guy is unbelievable.
Their legal department should have contacted him by mail, not phone or email. If that didn't get a response, then the actual police should have been brought in, but the actual police would have told WotC that they didn't have any right to the property because it was legally purchased.
They did try to contact him by phone and email first.
FYI: They cannot seize your property without a warrant first off. Secondly, *NEVER* call a company that sends a union busting PMC 'cordial' I don't care what customer service rep you talked to said. They didn't even offer cash reimbursement but *PRODUCT* that they sell at inflated value, ie, pennies on the dollar.
WotC deserves NONE of the benefit you gave them.
Also I don't want to edit my comment but unless they product was actually stolen they had no right to take it. I suspect it wasn't but WAS an error on their end because if it was they would have contacted the cops not a PMC. So legally speaking a case can easily be made that when you gave it up it BECAME stolen property. Your property. Which WotC stole.
This guy is like an ex gf who gets beaten to near death and hospitalized by her ex bf, and while in the ICU recovering writes a love letter her bff talking about how great her ex bf is.
He is the victim, and he is talking about the criminals who hurt him as these great people.
It's freaking mental.
F' Wizards, they literally stole the product you legitimately bought! You should sue them to the ground, specially if they made your wife cry
Remember that time you prematurely crashed the price of training grounds? Effing LEGEND! Worth it!
Bro they sent the heavies after you, you are an MTG legend now. What a story!
I agree , I think its wrong that they sent them after him as a well known business they should have let him keep the product its not hurting anyone as a fellow business owner myself I would have just sucked it up and said my mistake your gain it happens every once in awhile at one of my many locations
It'd be a shame if someone downloaded his original uploads. It'd be a bigger shame if they were reposted everywhere.
Crazy Video!!
A corporation mugged a man in his own home and the reaction is 'what a story'... Welcome to our dystopian hellscape.
If you look at Pinkerton wikia, this raid has been added already in modern.
If I were you, I would get a lawyer right away and not accept anything from Wotc as "compensation". They illegally seized your property through intimidation. If they had any legal ground to stand on, you would've gotten a call from one of their lawyers first. They were trying to do damage control and completely violated your rights in the process.
'making my wife cry, and the talk about stolen products and jail time' - You are way, waaaay too nice to WoTC for these actions. I am very positive you have good grounds to take legal actions.
The way he was talking, I half thought the Pinkertons were RIGHT THERE in the room with him still. Eesh. "no, they were totallly nice about it, perfect gentleman..." *sweats* *gun pointed to head*
And this guy is going to keep playing the game and buying the product. How pathetic.
Came here from Penguinz0 it must’ve been scary how this situation started in the first place! I hope you’re doing better!
I can't even. How is something like this even legal? Seems like MAJOR damage control to me all things considered.
He was robbed, possibly at gunpoint. Nothing that transpired was legal. Companies can hire these thugs to intimidate people into capitulation without actually going through the legal channels. The correct way would be file a police report and have the Sheriff come to your house with a warrant, which would have taken weeks and by that time the damage to their shitty product was done. They stepped outside the law to bully these people.
@@JimmyTheSaintDailyVideos Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
It wasn't legal
@@JimmyTheSaintDailyVideos yeah, look up the history of the pinkertons. union-busters, intimidators, thuggish scum dressed up in nice suits. they deserve the gallows more than they deserve the image of being a legitimate business.
It wasn't legal. That's why they sent the armed goons, not the lawyers. If they had a legal right to reclaim that box, they would've sent lawyers after it. Not armed goons.
they didn't need all the product... they only needed the box/case numbers. That is the weird part.
Agreed
@@oldschoolmtg This case is BS. Personally, I see this as a good reason to sever all ties to WotC. Or at the least choose not to pay them any money ever again. Which I did like a year ago. I don't even play their free Magic arena game unless it's logging in to claim a freebie I'll probably never use.
I used to spend a lot on MtG... but that was years ago.
@@oldschoolmtg If you agree then you really should press legal action against them. What they did is highly illegal. They cannot harass you at your home with a private firm like that. And under duress they lied to you and pushed you into surrendering your property to them. This is not okay, and do not put up with this. Wizards has been getting worse and worse and this kind of behaviour cannot be allowed. As someone who's spend thousands on their products in the past. I've personally refused to give them a dime since their stunt with the Open GL BS. Lawyer up. Show them that they can't keep kicking their fans in the teeth, and make a pretty penny when they decide to settle out of court.
@Noctus Ironically I own some stock in Hasbro
@@oldschoolmtg I'm sorry for your loss D:
They sent the big guns to scare you. Nothing was stolen. They can’t legally tell you to give back what they messed up on and shipped you. Woulda told the Pinkerton guys to have a nice trip back home.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Same, it is shame that they were able to scare him into giving it back
@@lordtachanka2740 It's a tough one. The fear isn't unjustified. Those armed goons are very violent. They're brutes, mercenaries, they're all fists and no brains. Every single one of them is a monster, especially their clients. They *will* get violent. Law is a suggestion to these people.
He would have been killed. The Pinkerton's are criminals who kill first ask questions later
Things were stolen...HIS purchased product
Quite a story by now. Mistakes were made. They prrrrrrooooobably shouldn't have named those two sets so similar.. just a wild guess.
I honestly think you have good cause to file a lawsuit.. sending agents to illegally enter your private residence, threaten, and steal product you purchased through legal means. It's one thing to stop by and inquire about your means of acquisition, but they had no right to do what they did, hence the employee having you call and acting so apologetic and friendly- he knows damn well they screwed up. If anything at all they should have contacted your seller and his distributor, and possibly requested you take down the videos until release. I would 100% be contacting an attorney.
This they were friendly because they knew they fucked up lol.
@@magicmanisaboss yep, for them to be so bold and threatening they for sure thought he stole that product. I honestly can’t believe they thought it was ok to send these guys to harass him and his wife before contacting him first to figure out what happened.
@@jp82cards30 Even if it was stolen, people do not have the right to break into people's homes to take stolen things back. Those are matters only the police can handle.
@@Goatknyght did he say they broke into his house, or did he say they knocked on his door and asked for it back?
@@JJJJJJJJJASDF to be clear, in no way am I an advocate of frivolous lawsuits but this extreme case certainly warrants inquiring with an attorney in my opinion.. they not only stole what he bought, but had his wife in tears and threatened him with fines and jail time, all because a distributor mistakenly shipped the wrong case to his seller?? I’m afraid this is America where you have rights against being treated like this
One word: Sue.
Set a precedent. This must not fly. Open a crowdfund for the lawsuit if necessary. What they did was plain evil.
On what grounds?
@@oooldkel Extortion, Coercion, Intentional infliction of emotional Distress, Theft, False imprissonment, Impermissible threats, ... I am sure that I could list far more if I sat down and thought about it more.
Unbelievable. How did Wizards Of The Coast imagine this was going to play out on social media when they're already on INCREDIBLY thin ice with their customers after the OGL fiasco? Bullying and intimidating fans who did nothing wrong, in their own home with the actual Pinkertons, of all things? Yikes.
We should have thousands of protesters at the doors of WOTC HQ 24/7. This is absolutely unacceptable heinous violence and that company needs to be shut down.
Under US law you are not obligated to return an item that was delivered to you by mistake, otherwise I could just send you a $10,000 wristwatch and then mail you a bill for it. At the very least if they wanted you to return it they should send you a pre-paid package to ship it back in. I'm fairly certain a company is NOT allowed to send thugs to your house to collect something that they sent to you by mistake. You should be speaking to a lawyer NOW.
They found you faster than they found Arthur and Dutch!
Please don't accept the free product they are offering you; it sounds like they're using that as a settlement for illegally robbing you of legally purchased product. What happened to you was a crime, as they had no legal claim to that product, nor are they allowed to retrieve it from you. If they had any legal recourse, they would have used legal channels such as the police with a search warrant for that product, but instead they showed up and took from you, what was legally yours. They robbed you, and then had you call a number for you to be offered a small settlement for what they did to you. It was not okay. There was no copyright infringement, and they can not rob you. There was no crime on your part, and they're using that language to threaten you. I recommend you raise some legal fees and dispute this; you were robbed.
If they sent private security then they didnt have a legal leg to stand on.
I honestly would sue the fuck out of both wizards and the security company.
It sounds like they threatened him and stole his property via threats.
He gave them the property like anyone would if someone had a gun pointed at them. But instead of a gun, it was other forms of threat and physical harm (according to him).
HE NEEDS A LAWYER
Incorrect. There is ONE legal leg to stand on and they stuck by it. Their statement claims that they attempted to reach out to the dude and he did not respond, so they sent the Pinkertons. The moment they let them in, it was over. If the dude lawyered up, he would lose in court. That's how they get you.
@@acedianPianist not necessarily. He can argue he was under duress by the security and compiled out of fear for his and his families safety.
Would take a good lawyer but its definitely do able.
I also started playing Magic when Revised came out. Ah, the days when you had no idea what was rare and what wasn't and you traded dual lands for basics because you didn't have enough basics.
I have a few extra basics. Let's trade😅
@@optimysticyet LOL. That would have been back in 1994 when I was 18, buying $2.00 Revised packs from a comic book store. If I could go back, I'd snatch up some power 9 dirt cheap.
Pinkertons are still around?!? lol
you did a great service. Not surprising that they sent someone after the product, though.
Thanks for the videos. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
The Pinkertons are a major antagonist in the video game Red Dead Redemption 2. When it came out they tried to sue Rockstar and have all the copies of the game destroyed because it slandered their "good" name. Rockstar's lawyers basically brought a history text book to court and said the way they are depicted in the game is more or less historically accurate.
I worked for Pinkerton/Burns back in 2001 and they got sold to Securitas but maybe Pinkerton is still around in a different form based off of Old school saying it was them who showed up
@@sinnsayy2011 The Pinkerton brand still exists, but its brand reach was scaled back severely once they were acquired by Securitas.
Dude, WotC didn't "Have" to go to 'drastic measures' like hiring the fucking Pinkertons. They knew what they were doing when they sent glorified mercenaries to your house without warning to demand the "stolen product." Regardless of how polite the dude on the phone was, WotC basically just threatened your life because you posted some videos of product your received in good faith. They shouldn't be compensating you with product, they should be compensating you with cash.
Why not both?
The Pinkertons are known practically worldwide for their egregiously abusive behavior towards the people they're hired to go after. This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me, I'm selling off my collection and getting out of MTG.
Stuff like this is why its so important for everyone to know their rights and local laws. A private security firm shows up at your door and threatens to seize property from you? Nah, tell them to kick dirt, close the door, lock it, and if they continue to harass you call local law enforcement. They have no warrant. There's literally a section in the federal US code that says no employee of pinkertons can work for the government lol like it specifically calls them out. They're nothing more than civilians and have zero authority over you. If wotc had a foot to stand on with this situation, they would have gone through local courts and gotten a warrant to return the property. Instead, they hired a private company to strong arm you because they knew a judge would laugh at them over this.
If they dont have a legally signed warrant, they cant take the cards, you payed for them, and they are your property. Also the videos, they are your property and there is no reason to take them down
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Dont think thats how it works for products that are obtained illegally or under NDA's/Contracts that prohibit warehouses or distributors from releasing products early. If the products were determined to be obtained in an illegal way then they certainly have every right to take them, although I do think the whole security team thing quite overboard for this situation admittedly.
That is absolutely how it works. It's not the end consumer's fault someone broke street date, and if WOTC wanted compensation they'd need to go after the person who sold them to him and at best get the cops to come back with a warrant for it as stolen property that had been sold on if they're going to claim it was stolen and not just a street date breach of contract.
The fact they didn't says they didn't think they could get the courts to call it stolen in the first place.
@@natgeo2 They don't have *any* claim to the product in the slightest. They probably could get a court order for the information contained on the packaging (such that they can track down where the NDA breach occurred), but the sealed product inside of it? Not even a little bit.
Let's be very clear about something: the product *WAS NOT* obtained in an illegal way. This product was obtained *100% legitimately* by a person who *did their due fucking diligence* , and no breach of contract could occur between him and WOTC because no such contract existed. Manufacturers are perfectly in their right to severely punish and even seek legal remedy against the retailer who breaks street dates, but once that product leaves the retailer, it belongs *solely* to the person who bought it.
No theft occurred here. No law was broken. Unless you're saying that "what really happened" was that somebody broke into the warehouse or retailer, no recourse is lawful by WOTC against this individual. The responsibility of upkeeping street dates solely rests at the retailer, and the consequences solely rest at the retailer.
And again, *literally* zero laws were broken, until the goons showed up. Those guys *did* break the law.
It's not copyright infringement to use someone else's footage unless they're literally just reuploading it. Content is available for "fair use" which may include commentating on footage for news or editing footage for art.
Large companies will tell you it's copyright or something of the sort because they want it down and most people don't know where they stand with it so they just take it down and the corporation gets what they want without having to go through the courts (and lose).
TALK TO A LAWYER.
Robbery & Conspiracy to commit Robbery are serious charges.
They threatened you and your wife with harm (lies about prison, 200k fines, etc.) You also felt physically threatened as they lied and posed as law enforcement.
Hasbro is worth billions. SO GET A LAWYER.
So corporations can just send mercs after people they don't like and intimidate them into parting with legally obtained stuff they paid good money for? No way anyone should cooperate with this. If they want it, they got to put in a good offer like everyone else.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
>Heavy Duty Lawmen
Bro they sent the mailman after you. They can't legally arrest, or prosecute you lmao
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
The Pinkertons might have suffered some bodily injury in my neck of the woods. Not actual cops, no warrant, no right whatsoever to be making your wife cry or to take your property. It was a home invasion, extortion and robbery. If they were armed there should be additional charges.
Not sure they had the right to take everything if it was sent out by accident. You should not have given them the product they had no right to take it if you aquired it from legitimate means. The use words to scare and trick people into compliance.
Yeah, what you described the Pinkertons doing on behalf of Wizards is called robbery and conspiracy to commit robbery.
@@michaelrudolph7003 ya those cards were legally pruchased they had no right to take anything, they had to go through the police if something was stolen, he should have told them to contact his lawyer and shut the door in their face. The Pinkertons operate by hoping people will just get scared and cave. They literally stole was was probably a couple thousand in his property. The set comes out in a couple weeks so it doesnt make sense that they didnt just ask him to pull the videos and not open anymore product until they have officially spoiled the product.
@@jeremiahchamberlain4179 $4,000 in collectors boxes.
@@oldschoolmtg i would honestly think about involving the police. You were threatened and coherst into giving up rightfully paid for property. It is not your fault someone released that early.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
"They did seem very nice and very laid back about the whole thing."
They also sent you Pinkertons. That's not very chill.
They don't need the product to figure it out. They need the packaging.
You didn't do anything illegal. They cant take the cards back. They are in the business of intimidating you (and anyone else who sees this) to protect Hasbro's profits.
Just tell them to leave. They can't touch you.
It really sucks that he handed over the packaging.
*doorbell rings* so anyways I started blastin
Glad someone else said it thank you! I said something similar but not as PG
Hahahahahahahahaha
These people were robbed, probably at gunpoint. If it went down as described it was illegal. The proper way to deal with stolen property is to report it to the police and have the Sheriff come to your house with a warrant. That would have taken weeks and WotC knew they didnt have that kind of time to save this disastrous product. So they sent some men to strongarm these people and intimidate them into capitulation. Flat out robbery. The owner of this channel should be at an attorneys office Monday morning filing charges and suing everyone involved. They stepped outside the law to bully these people.
Sir, this is America... get yourself a firearm. Never let strangers in your home.
Just come here to watch your take on the story. A very laid back and level headed response from you about this situation. Watching other RUclipsrs react to this makes it seem like the end of the world and that they smashed your door down. Cheers
Having been a daily viewer of yours for a while, this sh*t is crazzzzzy man!
Here because ClownfishTV did a video about this situation. Sorry you had to go through that crap because of WotC. I hope they do something to recompense you for all the stress you went through more so than the product you lost.
He would need to contact a Lawyer to get just compensation.
He won't.
They were very nice.
Nice when they threatened him with violence (prison & insane fines).
Nice when they larped as law enforcement and lied to him.
Nice when they made his wife cry.
Nice when they robbed him of his property.
They were very nice.
He should accept nothing from WotC, until they are dealing with his personal attorney and not him. WotC and the Pinkertons should also be criminally charged.
This guy was taken advantage of by not knowing his rights. He got bullied mafia style by a private security company sent by a big time company.
He should sue them.
Former cop here. You need a lawyer. That shit was illegal what they did to you.
He was offering you free product because a lawsuit just landed in your hands....of course they were nice
bro stop pretending...jusT cause you got a keyboard and a certain degree of anonimity here. you wouldnt do shit. he, you and I would all have done the same: return the product and delete the video/make it private and accept compensation. You wouldnt have kept it or the video or you wouldnt even sue unless youre plain dumb. No way youre winning a case against Hasbro dummie, JUST STOP.
I'll be honest boss, if it was me I'd have been asking to see a warrant and getting a lawyer on the phone so fast it'd make their head spin
Is this the first time you've heard of the Pinkertons? Because, historically, that organization is _very impatient._
@@LexYeen oh no, but considering he lives in the US and the second amendment...I, for one, would be more than willing to protect what I've paid for, but that's just me
So you would jeopardize your family’s safety to a private corp that now has your address and probably a bunch of other info or are you just gonna give it up because its card board? Can’t say I feel the same. Maybe with something more important to me but def not some pieces of card board, not worth the trouble that comes with keeping them.
@@LexYeen Doesn't matter how impatient they are, that's a them problem. No warrant? Piss off.
@@fallsenseless9699 so roll over? This is what stand your ground/castle doctrine and self defense is for.
I'm sorry that Wizards of the Coast and the Pinkertons both committed extremely serious crimes and civil violations and I'm sorry you felt you needed to cave to their pressure. This should be giant criminal trials for both of these groups for their individual crimes and their conspiracy crimes as well, in addition to GIANT civil fines and penalties paid to you. The only crimes that were committed here were by them and those are PROVABLE! The only way this sort of illegal behavior by large organizations like this is if people stand up to them and make them pay! That product belonged to you and the Pinkertons STOLE it from you buy using illegal threats, lies and force ON BEHALF of Wizards of the Coast. You should demand your product back IMMEDIATELY!
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Anyone using your footage isn't infringing any copyright. WotC is just trying to damage control.
Walmart and Amazon sell home decor doormats that read "Come Back with a Warrant" in all kind of styles.
Wizards of the Goons : March of the Pinkertons
1) you didn't steal anything. you bought it legally, from a distributor.
2) nobody can trespass on your property and demand the non-stolen goods back.
3) they are not the police.
4) even if it were cops that showed up, they would need a warrant to even enter your home without explicit permission.
5) this is harassment and intimidation. it's wrong and illegal.
6) you shouldn't have given anything to them.
7) you definitely have a decent case for a lawsuit against Wizards / Hasbro
8) get a lawyer who specializes in these types of cases. give them any and all evidence, including potential film of the encounter (if you have it), your wife's witness testimony etc.
9) have the lawyer send a notice to Hasbro saying you are their client, you won't accept any "supplemental product", you want your original purchase back (or the money you spent), and any communication can be done via written mail or email through the lawyer.
10) have the lawyer send a notice to Pinkerton. what they did is theft, and causing emotional distress is grounds for a lawsuit.
11) file the lawsuit, cite the crimes committed (including theft - if the theft is a high enough amount, it becomes grand theft according to the law; check with the lawyer for the amount)
12) include the damages received by these thugs (product, emotional, etc).
13) if Hasbro doesn't want a fallout on their hands, they'll pay. you could raise a hugeeee PR nightmare for them if you decided to go that route, and it would force their hand.
i hope you do something about this, even if it isn't filing a full on lawsuit. contact the distributor, tell them what happened, ask for your money back. it's their fault you got the product early. good luck and hopefully your wife is okay.
OH what they did was ABSOLUTLY illegal, get a very good lawyer and nail them to a wall.
You’re a legend.
I watched the video, so I’m glad I watched it.
Made me realize I didn’t want anything from it. And i was just waiting around all excited for ✨nothing✨
You have a great story to share for the rest of your life,probably the only one who can say that,incredible,for me it is worth it, every second of it,congrats and thanks for sharing everything
incredible might be a bit of a stretch.
You just changed your own card type to legendary creature - human Noble
lol, that's awesome!
@@oldschoolmtg Talk to a lawyer. You just got threatened and robbed by a BILLION dollar company.
At least I know not to waste my money on aftermath... wotc greedy, they can stick it...
If they came to my door like that I'd be absolutely pissed. Not very chill.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Definitely update us on your Wizzy apology box if your allowed. :)
Turn out to be March of the machines aftermath, collector boxes!
I was thinking about getting into magic for a while and now i know to never ever buy a single thing from them. Sue them man this is absolutely insane and obviously a diversion tactic.
One of your sentences is "they know that they took a lot of stuff that we had paid a lot of money for and he actually said they are gonna try to compensate us a little" and "..apologizing that they HAD to go to drastic means by sending the Pinkertons"
These are maybe two of the most insane sentences i have ever heard. This is cyberpunk-esque stuff.
You kick ass man. Greatest way a set has been spoiled. I don’t if you know but you single handed Lu spoiled the entire set.
I believe you when you state it east stolen on your end. No one stealing this product would reveal it at the time. Most othe rpeople would try to profit on the early knowledge. Trading ground reprints and new commanders effect the secondary market.
I do hope for your sake, no more stress comes out of this.
Classic case of bad cop good cop.
They sent the muscle to you and you folded like an origami piece. Made your wife cry and you didnt even got mad with them holding your ground. And now when you relinquinshed your entire power you asume they will properly compensate you EVEN when the entire intention they had was to scare you and your family regardless of how many times they deny it. They could have sent someone else to ask instead of demand but they didn't.
Now, whatever thing they give you is a microscopic portion of what you could have gotten from them if you weren't the way you are. This is just a sad sad story...
Yeah, this really is sad.
He even keeps talking with WotC instead of talking through a Lawyer.
Absolutely amazing this guy is the biggest cuck unless he gets a lawyer right now.
He gave them the cards, which is okay if he felt threatened. Not okay if he then doesnt report the crime of robbery after hiring a lawyer to sue.
Why didn't you tell them to pound sand? It's your property after point of purchase per Federal Law. You didn't sign any NDAs. I'd have told them to either come back with law enforcement with a warrant or get off my property. You just allowed a private company to illegally search and seize your property. You let them steal from you.
That's assuming the seller acquired it legally. If you buy a stolen car and the original owner finds out, you're taking the hit.
>You just allowed a private company to illegally search and seize your property. You let them steal from you.
You were absent that day in history class where the teacher talked about what the Pinkerton are, right? They've done this for over 100 years.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
@@releasethedogs Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
@@TubbyDuckling WHEN THEY COME WITH THE SHERIFF AND A WARRANT. Not until that point do you let anyone into your home/property and remove anything from it. They robbed these people. The law must PROVE the product was stolen first, then take legal action. If it happens the other way around they are circumventing the law. They sent a strongarm agency to intimidate them into capitulation. Thugs with uniforms.
"They were very nice and laid back about the whole thing".... WTF mate? They sent hired private investigators to your home!?!?!?!?!
'Hey, we scared the hell out of you and your family. Took property without a warrant. But we were nice about it.'
smh
you are now part of magics history
wow crazy
Pinkerton history to, this raid is already updated on thier wikia page
Came here from a D&D RUclipsr news story and, Brother, you gotta lawyer up and sue the living hell out of WoTC AND Pinkerton. Forced Entry, terroristic threats, theft (possibly grand theft), false representation, and more.
Compensate you by sending product? B.S. on that. They are nice? They sent goons TO YOUR HOUSE! If they were really 'nice' then they should have called you. If they thought the law was broken, they should have called the police.
You're a good guy, brother, but don't take this laying down.
it’s honesly wizards fault these sealed boxes/cases aren’t clearly labeled. i mean all will be one sub cases aren’t even labeled at all
What a shitty move by Wotc definitely consider taking them court. This completely unacceptable behavior from a company. This isn’t cyber punk 2077.
End of an era. I know it'd be a little round about but it would be nice if Wotc just sent you the product you got just on the release day but since collectors boxes are limited run type things, that could probably get messy. Also why it's good to keep some online anonymity. Dont want Pinkertons showing up on your door step.
He had a response to my comment up above on this topic
The distributor screwed up. They shipped the wrong product to the retailer. Per federal law, you received merchandise that you paid for. Therefore, it was yours. You shouldn't have given them anything, especially if you have receipts. WOTC did something wrong by sending hired thugs to intimidate you. You should have called the cops and lawyered up.
If you still have the receipts for your purchases, I'd consider legal action against the Pinkertons. They committed a strong arm robbery on behalf of WOTC.
"per federal law" hahaha just making shit up now
@oooldkel Read up on the Federal Trade Commission. Their purpose is to handle complaints against businesses by consumers. Protections have been in place since 1962.
This situation is not dissimilar to a retailer sending a consumer the wrong item. Legally, you are allowed to keep it as a gift. If WOTC has a problem with it, they need to take it up with the distributor who sent the wrong merchandise to the retailer first, then the retailer who sold it. Instead, they sent the Pinkertons directly after the consumer to intimidate them. Only after that did they offer merchandise in exchange for the product. The biggest problem here is that he willingly gave their agents the merchandise. They threatened him under the idea that he "should have known that it was stolen property". He knew this merchandise was not on the market yet when he bought it from the retailer. Should he not have? Well, a judge would be needed to determine that.
But yes, consumer protection laws exist. Know your rights.
I think it's nice they say they are going to make it up to you with product, but I don't feel that is enough for how they handled this. It should have started with contacting you through youtube or something and then a phone conversation and not waking up to hired goons knocking on your door.
Get a preview card at least! 😂
Yeah sure Id trade 4 grand, for a promise of future worthless product and some random preview card. LOL this guy was robbed.
Legally speaking, this would have had to be handled in small claims court. Point blank without a court order, and a sheriff doing the actual confiscation, this was blatant burglary. A private company's contractual agreements with retailers have no legal power against a consumer. If they used intimidation to enter and acquire, this is armed burglary. Whoever at wizards sent them is complicit in an armed burglary. This is a lawsuit and jail time for many people involved. You need to lawyer up.
WOTC said: I want another PR trash fire
"Nice and cordial" yet they sent the Pinkertons rather than reaching out - not a law enforcement agency, no right to enter or retrieve the product, so I would get a lawyer. Their attempts to appease you with free product should be ignored and they need to be held accountable for this transgression.
So if WoTC has a warehousing error they will send a private security detail to your home to seize your property? You can and should sue. I’d have told them to come back with real law enforcement and a warrant.
My full comment below but BIG KEY POINT: that exec you talked to WAS just another Pinky playing the part, good cop, bad cop bull$hit.
You still got moves, if you didn't sign anything...but I got a feeling -- with everything else you allowed along their demands which sounded like everything -- that you did.
Damn, if they hired the Pinky song n dance, means they paid them bet 5 to 10k, latter likely, since Pinkies have never been cheap. Extrapolated from their price the value of what you had at least ten times, else why would Wiznutz even bother, and you see what you could've negotiated within that framework, and pursued to receive immediately else escalate the videos and behavior. Don't be super greedy, but get your slice. Think 10k and two cases of collector cardboard from current set you like. That would easily be doable and a pittance than any other hiring goons scenario or any legal action against you. Just have to be fast since your asset has an expiring worth date very soon, after which will be worthless to them.
And now, because it worked so well on you, they do it again to someone else until someone smartens up to stop them.
*ding dong*
Oldschoolmtg: who is it?
Pinkertons: goons
Oldschoolmtg: who?
Pinkertons: hired goons
Oldschoolmtg: hired goons?
Melbourne, FL.
OP, this is part of your problem. Florida's law enforcement feel really, really empowered to do some really, really stupid things. This is one of them. Contact a lawyer. You have been robbed. They have committed a crime.
A gaming company sending the Pinkertons after a RUclipsr for "leaking" the cards *they* sent him is some Brazil shit. The fact that they even think they can get away with this is insane.
Pinkerton: you're a wanted man mr oldschoolmtg .5000 dollars for your head alone
The offer of more cards is nice but you should probably buy an hour with an attorney and talk about your options.
They are such a massive and rich company ; to do this to a fan and comsumer then offer no compensation is abhorrent.
Do not accept any compensation. Call a lawyer.
Also anyone taking screenshots or clips of your video are completely safe as they are reviewing
You have no requirement to remove your videos. Put them back up. Call a lawyer. Youre gonna get 100s of thousands of dollars
They Literally sent the villains from Red Dead Redemption to this guys front door. WTF
Im reserving my feeling on how they handle this depending how well they compensate you. To send a massive firm on ya that quickly is a panic response that screams bad news. Now if they barely cover your cost of what ya spent or even match it... i feel it would be an insult. A company that big with that much behind it... to help on PR and to reward you for full help I give ya 3x-4x your value with a bonus for flavor. Its pennies on the dollar for them to get.
The company has had a lot of missteps and I feel this is one of those that finally started to affect the outside.
Considering its a little late for WOTC to try and cover anything up by trying to find the "hole". Just by then coming and getting the product back just says what was opened was the real deal.
Guess you forgot Pinkerton Guys will fucking murder you
Definitely gonna be an interesting story, you should probably talk to a lawyer maybe.
Frankly you rolled over, they took you for a fool. You should not have let them take a single card.
Don’t take any comp from WotC before consulting a lawyer.
To those saying he should have kept stuff, and told Pinkerton to leave, keep in mind that he probably want a healthy relationship with WotC. Being nice, and going along with them both saves him from a potential lawsuit (fair or not, they have the money for it, and it will be expensive), and might keep him on the good side, to get some product in the future. Potentially stuff for new spoiler releases and such.
That said, the interne has the images now. They can't scrub them off of it.
exactly, he doesn't need to keep them, the cat is already out of the bag.
Yeah, that seems like a "sovereign citizen" way to go about it. It (frequently, there are obviously exceptions) pays off to be cordial and cooperative. You don't have to be in "stand your ground" mode over every little thing. Pick your battles. Sounds like this guy did that, and as a result WotC isn't hassling him and is even giving him product to make up for his costs. Being friendly and helpful can go a long way.
He wants a healthy relationship with one of the worst companies in gaming? Yeah ok...He deserves the criticism for not holding his ground against a scumbag company like wotc.
@@Kopekemaster Harassment is a crime. Amazing how you fuktardshills excuse this type of corporate fascist behavior from such a 'reputable' company.
@@cavemantero this ^
For the people who are going "I hope they send you product".
Fuck that. That is such a small scale for what should happen.
They intimidated and strongarmed someone who had early cards. This is fault of the vendor and partially wizards themselves. New product should not be the fix. Money that was spent plus extra should be the solution to this problem
I hope you can get a lawyer
Be sure to keep us updated on how they compensate you. I feel for you brother, you've just been robbed!
Pinks have no power. Next time tell them to talk to your lawyer and shut the door in their face.
While I agree on technical grounds, you may wish to take into consideration the historical behavior of the Pinkertons before saying that they "have no power."