Yeah a couple unsafe pallets is fine, they’re there to force a stun and make distance. They act as a last ditch effort to get away that takes a bit of timing and luck. They should be about as common as god pallets, meaning rare but not absent. Most pallet loops should be large enough to be safe when dropped, but small enough they can potentially be mindgamed by both sides
Remove the bad three gen, for the hedge tiles make them longer, actually add in tiles on deadzones (there should always be some tile even with the worse rng), for those crate pallets behind the house's make them slightly longer, and please add a pallet near the isolated generator that spawns at the end of the street. DO NOT TOUCH THE WINDOWS!
tbf... it's to counteract the opposite philosophy they had for the previous 8 years, where it was just a bunch of completely safe pallets that have zero counterplay other than "teehee run around til they drop and on to the next loop"
I love how you went from haddonfield is to survivor sided months ago to now it's too killer sided it's a wonderful example of how bad behavior is it making freaking balanced maps
Not even just maps, whenever they nerf something they OVER NERF it. Like nerfing med kits, they nerfed them in 2 or 3 different ways, then what they could've done was Nerf it 1 way, see how it performed then add another need if deemed necessary. Same goes for perks, DS got to where it could only be used if they didn't do a conspicuous action but then also reduced to 3 seconds.
Sure, scott, thats why i get haddonfield offering almost same often as rpd, because its very killer sided xD Good luck keeping 3 gen when one of them on second floor with safe drops especially if you take 2 balance and 2 sprints on team. Two sit and stealth in main, and two doing further one and sprint to Kentucky every time you drop from main building
@@xLWxPhantom Imma be honest here, The purple and Green Medkit deserved the nerfs they got. They we're way too strong, Purple Medkit before could have healed you upto 5 times and green medkits heal speed was insane.
@@ssjkakarotttv2676 I'm not saying they shouldn't have been nerfed in specific aspects, I'm just saying with other aspects getting nerfed on top of them it just didn't seem necessary to go so hard on everything. Like setting the charges to 24 on all, and then making it take longer to heal yourself and making them less efficient, that part is fine. Then they nerfed add ons like crazy, even did dumb ones like removing extra points for great skill checks on the suture and needle. Some add ons didn't deserve to change or reduce the charges on them because the medkits got a change at their base like crazy.
@@ssjkakarotttv2676 and it was just an example that not just maps get changed way too much, other things like items, perks are also subject to being over nerfed quite often.
I think a big thing that makes it harder to identify killer-sided maps is that killers can play so differently, and imo killer builds interact with maps more often than survivor builds, such that in order to have a killer-sided map, it has to be REALLY killer-sided. For example, stealth killers like Ghostface benefit from indoor maps due to line-of-sight blockage, but simultaneously, killers like Huntress suffer from it. Killers that can work around short loops like idk, Clown or Nemesis, fare better on maps like The Game or Greenville Square than killers like Artist who need to set up antiloop, allowing the survivor to book it to the next nearby pallet. Terror radius builds like Coulrophobia Wesker are more effective on multi-level maps as they tend to be more condensed. Dredge. But yeah, pretty much removing all survivor resources on top of a 3 gen is sorta the surefire way to make a map Killer-sided.
That is definitely one of the harder things to pin down. The game is really awful...if you're not playing Ghostface or Michael. Swamp is fucking awful for tracking survivors...course, who cares if you're playing Doctor or a trap based killler. RPD sucks so much on either side...except of course Wraith, Michael, Artist, Unknown. Big open maps like the cornfield also means there's not much stealth and a lot of hold W...course, Hillbilly and Oni doesn't care about that. And this isn't going into perks or add-ons. Truly 100% killer sided maps are surprisingly rare in the game.
@@cloudy978 oh I didn't realize that you weren't a native speaker 😭. Tables turned is the correct phrasing but I was just using a quote from a TV show where one of the main characters says it wrong lol.
I returned recently and observed that most maps have like no pallets and gigantic deadzones. It's so strange, because I was on swamp and a good half of the map had nothing. And then some maps have like some pallets but then all of them suck and are unsafe so you might as well not have them.
@@LoneWolfe_XX I get that the game was way too survivor sided, but playable pallets like the autohaven or macmillan ones should be on every map. It's just bad for new/returning players since I obviously don't have the skill to loop well and god help the new players lol. They drop a pallet for safety only for a killer to lunge around it. And don't even get me started on the deadzones. Makes windows a complete requirement lol.
The thing nobody talks about is that *BEFORE* this rework, just by staying still in the middle of the map, you could already see all the 4 walls at the edge of the map, and they STILL decided to make Haddonfield smaller, that was genuinely stupid no matter what side you play, one thing is remove useless house that nobody can enter, one thing is make an already medium/small sized map even smaller
Before the Skull Merchant, Sheltered Woods used to be the most killer sided map in the game. It's the macmillan estate map that used to have a giant tree in the middle. That map used to have 10 or less pallets throughout the whole map, all spread out over the edges so that the entire center was a deadzone you were guaranteed to get hit in. Once those resources were used the only place you could chase was shack window, because the map had no other structures. Once the killer got through literally all the resources in the map, every player was just on a timer to get hit
It also used to be one of the most OP maps in like year 1 to 2 of dbd, so they just gutted the map. It used to just have every pallet spawn which made it like 18 or some crazy shit, this even being after the removal of double pallets in jungle gyms.
I always disagreed with this take heavily, because Shelter Woods often spawned multiple jungle gyms. I used to run Windows of opportunity back in the day when everyone said it was merely a new player perk, and I was good at being greedy and utilizing windows as much as possible before wasting pallets. As long as you were paying attention, pre-running, planning your path, that map was super easy to play as survivor, not to mention it was the 2nd biggest map in the game after Red Forest.
@@FelipeV3444 That's only if you even got T/L walls or jungle gyms. Before SM, every time I got the map, it was all half gyms with no windows. I saw a single T/L wall in the tines I've gotten this map
That was easily the best killer map until they reworked it into another survivor sided conjoined loops carnival. Old shelter against a good killer was almost unwinnable
Earlier today I played a match of dbd on this map with a doctor holding a 3 gen. It took a while but thankfully I was blessed with a competent team and we ended up getting a 3 out
Holding a 3 gen doesn't mean anything, since there's so many times the killer can damage a gen. Just play the long game, maybe place a boon on the other side of the map and play it safe. He will have to commit at some point, which is to say that he'll lose.
Played against a Deathslinger on Saloon and he had such a good tri gen at the gallows part of the map. He legitimately didn't do any chasing the entire game and just stayed there. Eventually won since a random had Circle of healing but it was such a boring match.
Am I tripping or does anyone else also think Nostromo Wreakage is also a super killer-sided map? The map is quite bald with so few line of sight blockers. Most of the loops are really unsafe besides that one pallet in main which can be easily forced to be pre-dropped. There's not even a shack on the map. The map is an ez win as a killer like the old Shelter Woods and I don’t see anyone talking about it.
It depends on the killer. Nostromo is a huge map that is awful for killers without mobility or with the power that straight up relies on survivors screwing up on top of not ending up on a large map (Legion). Most "killer sided" maps as Scott correctly puts it, are killer-sided only for certain killers. Perfect examples are indoor maps for stealth killers vs ranged killers/larry. RPD for example is the best most braindead and lethal map Ghostface can play on (seriously, it is pure bliss), but good luck when you load up into it as an Artist, (thus losing part of your power due to the multilevel layout together with some slightly higher spots similar to swamp that causes crows straight up miss due to slightly different the height).
Honorable mention to Midwich, which not only is it an indoor map that isn't even bad for ranged killers or high mobility killers due to long empty hallways, not only is it much harder to find generators on it, but it also guarantees one of the most unfair doors set-up in the whole game.
There's a huge misconception between "killer sided" and "Fair". Just because something isn't survivor sided doesn't mean "killer sided". Midwich is not "killer sided". It's "skill sided". Unless you're talking about Nurse, but you can't single out specific killers.
@@PallyLIVE If a killer wants to proxy camp a hook in a hallway on Midwich, they can scout both hallways by just standing there because the hallways act like an intersection for all possible angles, the survivors have to go all the way around the entirety of the map to the other corridor just for the killer to turn 90 degrees and catch them there. As for the exit gates, what about Trappers traps on the short distant exit gates? Imagine Spirit's phase, or Knight, or Blight, or Nurse, or Billy or Chucky. I agree that Midwich has some toughish loops I get that, but mostly within reasonability. You are supposed to break pallets as a killer sometimes you know.. What killer hates this map? Stealth killers love it, mobility killers love it, trap-based killers love it. So many builds work on this map from skillcheck Doctor, to mirror Myers, to Pig aura builds, there's so much that is enabled on this map for killer, and that's a good thing to a degree, but you can't say that Midwich isn't beneficial for killer. It's the shortest map on the game in square meters with the closest exit gates in the game. What killer player spawns on Midwich and says "Oh no, not Midwich, I'm at a disadvantage"? I would say it's quite a relief most of the time
@@PallyLIVEI wouldn't say the exit gates having a guaranteed spawn where the killer can more or less stand in between them and see if you're on it 'skill sided'. I didn't know guaranteed spawns are skill sided now?
@@PallyLIVENono I'm a killer main and I will complain endlessly about survivor sided maps like Badham, Eyrie, Nostromo, and Garden. But claiming that Midwich isn't killer sided is counter productive. You cant just point at Survivor sided maps and then make excuses for Killer sided maps it's a two way street. The reason it's killer sided is the tiny size of the map, being the only indoor map that killers like huntress and blight can play well, the absolutely god awful gate spawns, most of the strong loops lead into dead ends (bathroom pallet and clock tower pallets), and the two floor setup making it hard to tell where the killer actually is (This one is a double edged sword as it does make traveling the map harder for killer)
Is the 3-gen at all altered by one of them being on a second floor? Assuming a player sneaks upstairs without being seen/heard, it takes a bit longer for the killer to reach them. And, if someone starts working on the road generator and the killer chases them off to one of the strong buildings, then now the killer isn't so close to the upstairs generator, especially in terms of actual walking distance.
funny thing is there is no 3 gen they put 2 gen spots extra in the back yards on both side there usually 1 in the myers house one by the porch by the slides and by the shed pallet other side behind left house in the left hous center house basement in the back between center house and house on right and one in the right house plus the 2 spots on the end and the occasional center ones in the middle of the map. probably most gen variations of any map lol and again deja vu exists
I used to play on 100 ping, I got hit on half of the pallets on ormond which were so umsafe, for me umplayable, now Haddonfield is unplayable no matter which pallet im on lol
I love how the main building side of the map is just an entire dead zone idk if it was just rng but the only pallets/windows I got on that side was the pallet behind main building next to the shed and the window in front of main building
What I don't understand is the hole in the wall at the Myer's house. Now if they run counter clockwise and use the window there on the front porch it seems hard to catch up as an M1 killer. Not sure what to do there
Counter argument: Midwich Only 2 God pallets, and the rest is unsafe or empty rooms. Close gens pretty much at all times, and EASY doors to defend for 0 escapes.
Midwich is saved by 2 things: 1. A lot of the loops are a lot better than people claim, the average just isn’t good to run them 2. The multi-floor setup on top of the fact the the only way to get up are always on the extreme edges of the make the it artificially large and difficult to get around These two things keep it from being completely killer sided
You didn’t mention that the map is rng. Sometimes the vault in the myers house will spawn and sometimes it won’t. When the window spawns it actually pretty strong and the hole in the wall does not circumvent it very well.
Well they're close together because the maps are becoming smaller and smaller and there's only so much spacing you can have between them without putting gens at the edgewall like that one gen on Swamp.
I'll never forget the 3gen i got as survivor. 4:14 one spawned at the corner house outside (usual spot) one took the place of trashcans (you see im 4:14) and took the place of the further car (4:14) the killer could just stand in the center of it and walk over any time. Shoutout to them for not doing that though. Even though we escaped, they won.
Remove the 3 gen and add a building or maybe even shack to the big empty spot. Maybe increase the map size a little, but it shouldn’t be as large as it was before.
i wish they’d add that mediocre window back behind main. idk why they thought that window was hugely problematic. and the window behind the gen in main was fine too, since there’s the drop off right next to it
Some people mentioned old Shelter woods as one very killer sided map, idk, it was definitely killer sided in comparison with almost everything else back then (old Ormond, old farm maps, old autoheaven and mcmillan maps with infinites, and so on) but people seem to have forgotten about old Lery's. IIRC Lery's had the lowest escape rate, most pallets were unsafe, and it wasn't easy to get or recognize and take advantage of God setups since it mainly had rooms with semi safe windows. Then it got reworked on January 2020 along with Doctor and Ruin, and now there's multiple God rooms throughout.
the thing I like about haddonfield the most is that some urvivors still didn't get the memo about the rework and still try to bring it for their bully squad schenanigans. It happens less and less, but it happens.
My best guess is that they didn't know where to move the generator locations from the third of the map they cut out so they just reverted it to the old spot without realising that's the reason they changed the map to begin with.
No wonder just after the Haddon field rework I got adept with clown, however I could have still gotten it before that update if my internet had not been so terrible.
I haven't played enough on updated Haddonfield to have an opinion quite yet but if you count RNG outliers I think 5-Gen Azarovs is probably the single strongest map variation. I also once had a 5-Gen Suffocation Pit. Overall though I can see where you're coming from with Haddonfield.
if they remove the dead dawg 3 gen and remove the breakable doors next to the 3 windows in main and make them always be open it will be the perfect map imo, strong enough loops but small enough for most killers
i mean if they made the pallets better wouldn't the map be fine with the 3 gen ? i mean the killer can only kick the gen 8 times then its just blocked for them isn't that the whole reason the system was added ? (maybe im just braindead)
When I want to practice things in custom I give all the bots No Mither and then equip Deadlock/Corrupt/Thana and it gives me so much more time. Just a tip
hey scott youre actually wrong about the previous version removing that 3 gen, the previous version removed the possibility of 2 gens spawning INSIDE the house. The current 3 gen of a gen outside and a gen inside was still on the previous version on the map.
You can still hold 3 gens.. People act like the "regression limit" prevents you from holding 3 gens. It does not. It prevents you from playing like a Chess Merchant and hold the 3 gen from the very start of the match till the end of the match, it doesn't prevent you from holding a 3 gen at like 2 gens left.
I wonder if the Halloween guys genuinely know anything about this game. If so, I also wonder what they think about their map and the strange history it has.
Yeah, I've gone out of my way to play as as lax as possible with killers I don't usually play on this map and I still end up with a 2K without turning the match into a farming sim it's just that killer sided.
I think getting rid of the 3 gen and bringing back the house so there isn't just a giant empty grass field is a good step. From there you would need to see how it goes, personally I think they'd need to make some of these super weak pallets a bit better, but please no more God pallets
I just wish the dev team actully played their own game on a little bit of a regular basis atleast. That way they could have a better understanding of the choices they make. Balancing perks and perk changes is one thing but map design is soooo important that you need someone who actually knows what theyre doing
For main problem is the fact that half of the map is pretty much an entire deadzone main building is terrible because of all the holes they opened so the window on second floor are all guaranteed hits and on both sides of main building there is nothing
those weird unsafe pallets are just making the matches worse its uninteresting for both sides they really need to stop with whatever they are thinking there
As an avid Halloween fan, this map was my favourite, it needed some balancing but people complained about it so hard and stretched the truth so much that it has become an ugly joke of a map now. It doesn't even resemble the film anymore, it just looks like a mess of stupid bandaid fixes. so thanks guys, you got my favourite map absolutely gutted because you made it out to be Badham, Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy. Let's gut an already short sized map because it's "too big", now it's the size of a coin, way to go.
Surprised no mention of Midwich which anytime data is released it has the highest kill rate. It's also insane to me people how people will say x map is insanely survivor sided when they can spawn unbreakable 3 gen so it's a insta win for the killer if they choose to. Swamp and RPD both have had even worse 3 gens then Haddonfield. It's also silly to discuss map balance considering what killer you play and with what build decide how the map is.
Thing with killer sided maps is they are more "this kind of killer sided maps", whats good for stealth like Myers, Ghostface, Wraith etc like Treatment Theater is horrible for gottagofast killers like Hillbilly or Blight etc There are very few global killer sided maps where everyone has a strong advantage (maybe current Haddonfield and Midwich) but there are a few specific type killer sided maps.
I know you only touched on it for a moment, but I hate Azaroth's so much I spawn in, and literally don't move from one side of the map, because there is 0 point to, it's super boring
I still think Greenville Square is rougher. The fact that Haddon’s main windows are complete RNG does hurt but the front window being open is better than any loop in Greenville.
I always thought Haddonfield was that map that allowed survivors to feel like professionals, even if they weren't trying and/or they were noobs. As in, all of the loops were extremely easy and all super strong. I haven't played killer/dbd in years, and just now getting back into the game as a survivor main, so maybe I am wrong about that now. I will say, the gens feel like they're so naked and close to each other on this map.
they should add something where the removed house used to be, they could put the gen over there instead with maybe a small jungle gym-esque tile or maybe something similar to the mini shack car loop on garden of joy but not as strong
Yet another example of BHVR being unable or unwilling to do smaller changes more often. The window vaults were a problem on the last version of Haddonfield, so what did they do? Change a ton of other stuff along with the windows. Why not just change the windows?
Killer sided yet Scott got 0k. Checkmate Scott
And against bots too, clearly this is the most survivor sided map in the game
He’s playing with bots just fooling around. He wasn’t playing serious
@@LoneWolfe_XX no no, no need to defend me, i was trying to win
@@ScottJundrespect for the honesty you’ll get em next time buddy
@@LoneWolfe_XX XDDD bro stop
I like that Haddonfield is just this cursed map that no matter how much it's changed it will always be horrible to play on one way or the other.
It's almost as if making a map based off a neighborhood is a bad idea
I've always wondered to what extent they're constrained by the license holder with these things.
@@TheRealFigLizardUnlikely to affect actual gameplay stuff beyond “don’t change too much from the license”
I think the map team just sucks. They haven’t really been doing a good job
This consistently true for all licensed maps
They’ve got to stop with the million unsafe palettes philosophy. The 3 gen returning is a slap in the face after all the patches to “fix” it
Yeah a couple unsafe pallets is fine, they’re there to force a stun and make distance. They act as a last ditch effort to get away that takes a bit of timing and luck. They should be about as common as god pallets, meaning rare but not absent. Most pallet loops should be large enough to be safe when dropped, but small enough they can potentially be mindgamed by both sides
@@pistolmoth4198 well, then it's predrop heaven, where killer is forced to break most of the pallets
Remove the bad three gen, for the hedge tiles make them longer, actually add in tiles on deadzones (there should always be some tile even with the worse rng), for those crate pallets behind the house's make them slightly longer, and please add a pallet near the isolated generator that spawns at the end of the street. DO NOT TOUCH THE WINDOWS!
It's already pre-drop heaven@@jokere9880
tbf... it's to counteract the opposite philosophy they had for the previous 8 years, where it was just a bunch of completely safe pallets that have zero counterplay other than "teehee run around til they drop and on to the next loop"
Haddonfield: I am an enigma, wrapped in a mystery, shrouded in three unsafe pallets and two weak windows.
Haddonfield is Russia? Okhrenet' that makes so much blyat, I mean sense.
I love how you went from haddonfield is to survivor sided months ago to now it's too killer sided it's a wonderful example of how bad behavior is it making freaking balanced maps
Not even just maps, whenever they nerf something they OVER NERF it. Like nerfing med kits, they nerfed them in 2 or 3 different ways, then what they could've done was Nerf it 1 way, see how it performed then add another need if deemed necessary. Same goes for perks, DS got to where it could only be used if they didn't do a conspicuous action but then also reduced to 3 seconds.
Sure, scott, thats why i get haddonfield offering almost same often as rpd, because its very killer sided xD
Good luck keeping 3 gen when one of them on second floor with safe drops especially if you take 2 balance and 2 sprints on team. Two sit and stealth in main, and two doing further one and sprint to Kentucky every time you drop from main building
@@xLWxPhantom Imma be honest here, The purple and Green Medkit deserved the nerfs they got. They we're way too strong, Purple Medkit before could have healed you upto 5 times and green medkits heal speed was insane.
@@ssjkakarotttv2676 I'm not saying they shouldn't have been nerfed in specific aspects, I'm just saying with other aspects getting nerfed on top of them it just didn't seem necessary to go so hard on everything. Like setting the charges to 24 on all, and then making it take longer to heal yourself and making them less efficient, that part is fine. Then they nerfed add ons like crazy, even did dumb ones like removing extra points for great skill checks on the suture and needle. Some add ons didn't deserve to change or reduce the charges on them because the medkits got a change at their base like crazy.
@@ssjkakarotttv2676 and it was just an example that not just maps get changed way too much, other things like items, perks are also subject to being over nerfed quite often.
I think a big thing that makes it harder to identify killer-sided maps is that killers can play so differently, and imo killer builds interact with maps more often than survivor builds, such that in order to have a killer-sided map, it has to be REALLY killer-sided. For example, stealth killers like Ghostface benefit from indoor maps due to line-of-sight blockage, but simultaneously, killers like Huntress suffer from it. Killers that can work around short loops like idk, Clown or Nemesis, fare better on maps like The Game or Greenville Square than killers like Artist who need to set up antiloop, allowing the survivor to book it to the next nearby pallet. Terror radius builds like Coulrophobia Wesker are more effective on multi-level maps as they tend to be more condensed. Dredge.
But yeah, pretty much removing all survivor resources on top of a 3 gen is sorta the surefire way to make a map Killer-sided.
Dredge.
Dredge.
Personally I don’t think there’s such a thing as “killer sided” maps. The closest you’ll get is balanced.
That is definitely one of the harder things to pin down.
The game is really awful...if you're not playing Ghostface or Michael.
Swamp is fucking awful for tracking survivors...course, who cares if you're playing Doctor or a trap based killler.
RPD sucks so much on either side...except of course Wraith, Michael, Artist, Unknown.
Big open maps like the cornfield also means there's not much stealth and a lot of hold W...course, Hillbilly and Oni doesn't care about that.
And this isn't going into perks or add-ons.
Truly 100% killer sided maps are surprisingly rare in the game.
Dredge.
Haddonfield once was the best survivor map and now it is the worst. How the turn tables.
irony.
You mean how the tables turn ?
@@cloudy978 the tables have turned thust they are now turn tables
@@ihavebraindamage4445 but then it's still turned ? I don't get it might be my fault not a native english speaker.
@@cloudy978 oh I didn't realize that you weren't a native speaker 😭. Tables turned is the correct phrasing but I was just using a quote from a TV show where one of the main characters says it wrong lol.
In haddon field there’s literally a huge dead zone on the left side of big house like it makes 0 sense to why there’s nothing over there
I returned recently and observed that most maps have like no pallets and gigantic deadzones. It's so strange, because I was on swamp and a good half of the map had nothing. And then some maps have like some pallets but then all of them suck and are unsafe so you might as well not have them.
@@aatb3719 I’m glad someone sees that because I knew it was odd on how the maps were
@@LoneWolfe_XX I get that the game was way too survivor sided, but playable pallets like the autohaven or macmillan ones should be on every map. It's just bad for new/returning players since I obviously don't have the skill to loop well and god help the new players lol. They drop a pallet for safety only for a killer to lunge around it. And don't even get me started on the deadzones. Makes windows a complete requirement lol.
@@aatb3719 facts man but killers love throwing salt on why survivors have windows. You kind of need windows at times especially if your solo que
The thing nobody talks about is that *BEFORE* this rework, just by staying still in the middle of the map, you could already see all the 4 walls at the edge of the map, and they STILL decided to make Haddonfield smaller, that was genuinely stupid no matter what side you play, one thing is remove useless house that nobody can enter, one thing is make an already medium/small sized map even smaller
New opinion unlocked. Thanks Scott!
Before the Skull Merchant, Sheltered Woods used to be the most killer sided map in the game. It's the macmillan estate map that used to have a giant tree in the middle. That map used to have 10 or less pallets throughout the whole map, all spread out over the edges so that the entire center was a deadzone you were guaranteed to get hit in. Once those resources were used the only place you could chase was shack window, because the map had no other structures. Once the killer got through literally all the resources in the map, every player was just on a timer to get hit
It also used to be one of the most OP maps in like year 1 to 2 of dbd, so they just gutted the map. It used to just have every pallet spawn which made it like 18 or some crazy shit, this even being after the removal of double pallets in jungle gyms.
I always disagreed with this take heavily, because Shelter Woods often spawned multiple jungle gyms. I used to run Windows of opportunity back in the day when everyone said it was merely a new player perk, and I was good at being greedy and utilizing windows as much as possible before wasting pallets. As long as you were paying attention, pre-running, planning your path, that map was super easy to play as survivor, not to mention it was the 2nd biggest map in the game after Red Forest.
@@FelipeV3444 That's only if you even got T/L walls or jungle gyms. Before SM, every time I got the map, it was all half gyms with no windows. I saw a single T/L wall in the tines I've gotten this map
even tho the tiles aren’t that strong that map feels absolutely ginormous I can’t explain why tho
The old shelter woods was horrible for survivor aswell
That was easily the best killer map until they reworked it into another survivor sided conjoined loops carnival. Old shelter against a good killer was almost unwinnable
its funny because the very first version of shelter woods was actually super survivor sided
New shelter woods is worse
@@ScottJundwhat did it have that made it survivor sided?
@@ScottJund was it? Picked dbd back up when twins came out, so I only remember the version before skull merchant
Can see all edges of the map at once too
this is not a bad thing. Part of the map problems this game has is they're simply way too fucking big.
For surv it’s horrendous for killers it’s great news
I don’t know why they made it smaller when it was already below average
Earlier today I played a match of dbd on this map with a doctor holding a 3 gen. It took a while but thankfully I was blessed with a competent team and we ended up getting a 3 out
Holding a 3 gen doesn't mean anything, since there's so many times the killer can damage a gen. Just play the long game, maybe place a boon on the other side of the map and play it safe. He will have to commit at some point, which is to say that he'll lose.
Played against a Deathslinger on Saloon and he had such a good tri gen at the gallows part of the map. He legitimately didn't do any chasing the entire game and just stayed there. Eventually won since a random had Circle of healing but it was such a boring match.
Am I tripping or does anyone else also think Nostromo Wreakage is also a super killer-sided map? The map is quite bald with so few line of sight blockers. Most of the loops are really unsafe besides that one pallet in main which can be easily forced to be pre-dropped. There's not even a shack on the map. The map is an ez win as a killer like the old Shelter Woods and I don’t see anyone talking about it.
that map has some sight issues I can hardly see survivors there I always escape there and underperform as killer lol
It depends on the killer. Nostromo is a huge map that is awful for killers without mobility or with the power that straight up relies on survivors screwing up on top of not ending up on a large map (Legion).
Most "killer sided" maps as Scott correctly puts it, are killer-sided only for certain killers. Perfect examples are indoor maps for stealth killers vs ranged killers/larry.
RPD for example is the best most braindead and lethal map Ghostface can play on (seriously, it is pure bliss), but good luck when you load up into it as an Artist, (thus losing part of your power due to the multilevel layout together with some slightly higher spots similar to swamp that causes crows straight up miss due to slightly different the height).
Scott didn't even show the new worst pallet in the game in one of the corner houses
Honorable mention to Midwich, which not only is it an indoor map that isn't even bad for ranged killers or high mobility killers due to long empty hallways, not only is it much harder to find generators on it, but it also guarantees one of the most unfair doors set-up in the whole game.
There's a huge misconception between "killer sided" and "Fair".
Just because something isn't survivor sided doesn't mean "killer sided". Midwich is not "killer sided". It's "skill sided". Unless you're talking about Nurse, but you can't single out specific killers.
@@PallyLIVE If a killer wants to proxy camp a hook in a hallway on Midwich, they can scout both hallways by just standing there because the hallways act like an intersection for all possible angles, the survivors have to go all the way around the entirety of the map to the other corridor just for the killer to turn 90 degrees and catch them there. As for the exit gates, what about Trappers traps on the short distant exit gates? Imagine Spirit's phase, or Knight, or Blight, or Nurse, or Billy or Chucky.
I agree that Midwich has some toughish loops I get that, but mostly within reasonability. You are supposed to break pallets as a killer sometimes you know.. What killer hates this map? Stealth killers love it, mobility killers love it, trap-based killers love it. So many builds work on this map from skillcheck Doctor, to mirror Myers, to Pig aura builds, there's so much that is enabled on this map for killer, and that's a good thing to a degree, but you can't say that Midwich isn't beneficial for killer. It's the shortest map on the game in square meters with the closest exit gates in the game. What killer player spawns on Midwich and says "Oh no, not Midwich, I'm at a disadvantage"? I would say it's quite a relief most of the time
@@PallyLIVEI wouldn't say the exit gates having a guaranteed spawn where the killer can more or less stand in between them and see if you're on it 'skill sided'. I didn't know guaranteed spawns are skill sided now?
@@PallyLIVENono I'm a killer main and I will complain endlessly about survivor sided maps like Badham, Eyrie, Nostromo, and Garden. But claiming that Midwich isn't killer sided is counter productive. You cant just point at Survivor sided maps and then make excuses for Killer sided maps it's a two way street.
The reason it's killer sided is the tiny size of the map, being the only indoor map that killers like huntress and blight can play well, the absolutely god awful gate spawns, most of the strong loops lead into dead ends (bathroom pallet and clock tower pallets), and the two floor setup making it hard to tell where the killer actually is (This one is a double edged sword as it does make traveling the map harder for killer)
@@PiscesSenpaishortest map on paper but on game You have to go the whole map to go up and then you have 4 or 5 ways down unless You are nurse
Entire map aside from like 2 pallets is a dead zone.
yeah dbd is cool but where can I get that BG3 Shadowheart artifact you got in the background?
wife had it custom made for me for my birthday, no idea!
2021: SWF sends Haddonfield offering to win
2024: Killer sends haddonfield offering to win
Legit had a 3 gen vs a wesker with a friend, who then said "Oh Scott just uploaded a video saying this is the best 3 gen/most killer sided map."
I wouldn’t even be surprised if that gen being back was some weird bug and not even intended. That would be classic Behaviour.
I agree completely with the points of view explained in this video
Removing all the good windows was overkill
Is the 3-gen at all altered by one of them being on a second floor? Assuming a player sneaks upstairs without being seen/heard, it takes a bit longer for the killer to reach them. And, if someone starts working on the road generator and the killer chases them off to one of the strong buildings, then now the killer isn't so close to the upstairs generator, especially in terms of actual walking distance.
No one playing the 3gen is going to commit to a chase outside of the 3gen.
Behavior wanting to get rid of 3 genning and yet they add shit like this:
funny thing is there is no 3 gen they put 2 gen spots extra in the back yards on both side there usually 1 in the myers house one by the porch by the slides and by the shed pallet other side behind left house in the left hous center house basement in the back between center house and house on right and one in the right house plus the 2 spots on the end and the occasional center ones in the middle of the map. probably most gen variations of any map lol and again deja vu exists
I used to play on 100 ping, I got hit on half of the pallets on ormond which were so umsafe, for me umplayable, now Haddonfield is unplayable no matter which pallet im on lol
I love how the main building side of the map is just an entire dead zone idk if it was just rng but the only pallets/windows I got on that side was the pallet behind main building next to the shed and the window in front of main building
What an arc Haddonfield has been through
What I don't understand is the hole in the wall at the Myer's house. Now if they run counter clockwise and use the window there on the front porch it seems hard to catch up as an M1 killer. Not sure what to do there
Vile Scott telling killer mains what map offering to spam while learning Vecna today.
Counter argument:
Midwich
Only 2 God pallets, and the rest is unsafe or empty rooms. Close gens pretty much at all times, and EASY doors to defend for 0 escapes.
Midwich is saved by 2 things:
1. A lot of the loops are a lot better than people claim, the average just isn’t good to run them
2. The multi-floor setup on top of the fact the the only way to get up are always on the extreme edges of the make the it artificially large and difficult to get around
These two things keep it from being completely killer sided
Vile Scott tries to prove this is a killer-sided map but he got zero hooks. Checkmate
You didn’t mention that the map is rng. Sometimes the vault in the myers house will spawn and sometimes it won’t. When the window spawns it actually pretty strong and the hole in the wall does not circumvent it very well.
Generators need to stop being so close together T_T
Well they're close together because the maps are becoming smaller and smaller and there's only so much spacing you can have between them without putting gens at the edgewall like that one gen on Swamp.
The current version of Haddonfield is 95 developers smaller than it used to be
Faced a skull merchant that camped the 3 gen, we all just gave up 😂
Remember when there was a gen downstairs in main as well as the one outside?
I'll never forget the 3gen i got as survivor. 4:14 one spawned at the corner house outside (usual spot) one took the place of trashcans (you see im 4:14) and took the place of the further car (4:14) the killer could just stand in the center of it and walk over any time. Shoutout to them for not doing that though. Even though we escaped, they won.
It might be helpful for future videos: running Corrupt, Deadlock, and No Way Out can give more time to analyze the map with bots in the background :)
some of the car pallets are safe pallets aswell (atleast against M1 killers)
Scout I think I could watch you talk about anything
very entertaining
Scott even let survivors escape so he can explain it to us, damn.
"The old new new old Haddonfield"
-Scott Jund
i only ever even found out about the edge map pallets by running windows
I miss the original map 😢 more cause of nostalgia.
How would you fix Haddonfield? Besides removing the 3-gen.
That's all that needs to be done. The map is fair otherwise. You don't need a million safe pallets for a map to be balanced.
@@PallyLIVE It's not lmao. If you increased the size by 30% but kept the same tile strengths, it would maybe be okay.
Remove the 3 gen and add a building or maybe even shack to the big empty spot. Maybe increase the map size a little, but it shouldn’t be as large as it was before.
@@larsliamvilhelm It's fine now with the exception of the 3 gen. What you're doing is exposing your lack of skill.
You should make a video on the most survivor side maps. That would be useful into how balanced this game really is
i wish they’d add that mediocre window back behind main. idk why they thought that window was hugely problematic. and the window behind the gen in main was fine too, since there’s the drop off right next to it
Some people mentioned old Shelter woods as one very killer sided map, idk, it was definitely killer sided in comparison with almost everything else back then (old Ormond, old farm maps, old autoheaven and mcmillan maps with infinites, and so on) but people seem to have forgotten about old Lery's. IIRC Lery's had the lowest escape rate, most pallets were unsafe, and it wasn't easy to get or recognize and take advantage of God setups since it mainly had rooms with semi safe windows. Then it got reworked on January 2020 along with Doctor and Ruin, and now there's multiple God rooms throughout.
this honestly might be a result of them changing so much shit that the transition from unreal engine 4 to ue5 broke something
the thing I like about haddonfield the most is that some urvivors still didn't get the memo about the rework and still try to bring it for their bully squad schenanigans.
It happens less and less, but it happens.
the main is good for head on so maybe thats why
I'm still gonna altf4 if I see the offering as killer
Yeah, same. lmfao
My best guess is that they didn't know where to move the generator locations from the third of the map they cut out so they just reverted it to the old spot without realising that's the reason they changed the map to begin with.
Haddonfield is disgusting. You can hold those three gens with literally any killer basically indefinitely.
I just got sent to this as a killer. Thought I was gonna get railed but it was a 4k, guess they also didn't realise it got reworked
Technically you cant 3 gen anymore if your team is patient enough to keep stopping the regress right?
No wonder just after the Haddon field rework I got adept with clown, however I could have still gotten it before that update if my internet had not been so terrible.
I haven't played enough on updated Haddonfield to have an opinion quite yet but if you count RNG outliers I think 5-Gen Azarovs is probably the single strongest map variation. I also once had a 5-Gen Suffocation Pit.
Overall though I can see where you're coming from with Haddonfield.
if they remove the dead dawg 3 gen and remove the breakable doors next to the 3 windows in main and make them always be open it will be the perfect map imo, strong enough loops but small enough for most killers
fun fact: one of those doors actually makes the main window loop safer with a different route, check out Mr Tatorhead for this one
i mean if they made the pallets better wouldn't the map be fine with the 3 gen ? i mean the killer can only kick the gen 8 times then its just blocked for them isn't that the whole reason the system was added ? (maybe im just braindead)
Why is the Mr softee Ice cream truck charging $5 dollars for an Ice cream cone???? 🍦 what is going on there is no way this continues right?
I thought, strongest killer map is the one with big tree in the middle and 4 palets on each corner and well a lot of trees
When is vecna coming out?
When I want to practice things in custom I give all the bots No Mither and then equip Deadlock/Corrupt/Thana and it gives me so much more time. Just a tip
Someone finally mentioned this!
I remember how bad it was with long white fences and old balanced landing was so broken on the map almost any second floor window could infinite
hey scott youre actually wrong about the previous version removing that 3 gen, the previous version removed the possibility of 2 gens spawning INSIDE the house. The current 3 gen of a gen outside and a gen inside was still on the previous version on the map.
To be fair the 3 gens were crazy B4 the gen regression limit.
You can still hold 3 gens.. People act like the "regression limit" prevents you from holding 3 gens. It does not. It prevents you from playing like a Chess Merchant and hold the 3 gen from the very start of the match till the end of the match, it doesn't prevent you from holding a 3 gen at like 2 gens left.
@@larsliamvilhelmholding a 3 Gen at 2 gens left is just the right play. There’s nothing toxic about that.
@@MechaSandvich When the fuck did i say it was """toxic"""?
They only do extremes. Like when you tell a lover you need a little space and they never talk to you again.
It's like someones concept for a micro-map, like a wee little diorama. Tiny bebeh map.
I wonder if the Halloween guys genuinely know anything about this game. If so, I also wonder what they think about their map and the strange history it has.
Yeah, I've gone out of my way to play as as lax as possible with killers I don't usually play on this map and I still end up with a 2K without turning the match into a farming sim it's just that killer sided.
Aint no way haddenfield went from most survivor sided to most killer sided 😮😮😮😮
Can you make a video about how 3 gen still exists
I see that BG3 Artifact in the back... nice 😏
I think getting rid of the 3 gen and bringing back the house so there isn't just a giant empty grass field is a good step. From there you would need to see how it goes, personally I think they'd need to make some of these super weak pallets a bit better, but please no more God pallets
I just wish the dev team actully played their own game on a little bit of a regular basis atleast. That way they could have a better understanding of the choices they make. Balancing perks and perk changes is one thing but map design is soooo important that you need someone who actually knows what theyre doing
I loved the old Haddonfield
They removed an entire house? Damn
For main problem is the fact that half of the map is pretty much an entire deadzone main building is terrible because of all the holes they opened so the window on second floor are all guaranteed hits and on both sides of main building there is nothing
There's a glitch in DBD Mobile on Dead Dawg and there's two gens within Prove range, so
Map so killer sided yet you can't even get a single hook. Scott Fraud strikes again
those weird unsafe pallets are just making the matches worse
its uninteresting for both sides
they really need to stop with whatever they are thinking there
I don't understand why tf it's so hard for BHVR to make a balanced map
As an avid Halloween fan, this map was my favourite, it needed some balancing but people complained about it so hard and stretched the truth so much that it has become an ugly joke of a map now. It doesn't even resemble the film anymore, it just looks like a mess of stupid bandaid fixes. so thanks guys, you got my favourite map absolutely gutted because you made it out to be Badham, Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy. Let's gut an already short sized map because it's "too big", now it's the size of a coin, way to go.
It needs to be changed, but as a killer main, i think the survivors should have to play for a development cycle so that they know our pain.
Surprised no mention of Midwich which anytime data is released it has the highest kill rate. It's also insane to me people how people will say x map is insanely survivor sided when they can spawn unbreakable 3 gen so it's a insta win for the killer if they choose to. Swamp and RPD both have had even worse 3 gens then Haddonfield. It's also silly to discuss map balance considering what killer you play and with what build decide how the map is.
Thing with killer sided maps is they are more "this kind of killer sided maps", whats good for stealth like Myers, Ghostface, Wraith etc like Treatment Theater is horrible for gottagofast killers like Hillbilly or Blight etc
There are very few global killer sided maps where everyone has a strong advantage (maybe current Haddonfield and Midwich) but there are a few specific type killer sided maps.
They gutted this map it needed work for sure but damn did they kill this map
I know you only touched on it for a moment, but I hate Azaroth's so much
I spawn in, and literally don't move from one side of the map, because there is 0 point to, it's super boring
This is the nuketown of dbd 🤣😂
I still think Greenville Square is rougher. The fact that Haddon’s main windows are complete RNG does hurt but the front window being open is better than any loop in Greenville.
At least, there's a shack and decent jungle gym tiles on Greenville, but yes, filler pallets might as well not exist on that map, they're so bad
Those pallets that they put on the edge of the map are a joke lol
Ok so one killer map and 20 something surv maps. Got it.
I always thought Haddonfield was that map that allowed survivors to feel like professionals, even if they weren't trying and/or they were noobs. As in, all of the loops were extremely easy and all super strong. I haven't played killer/dbd in years, and just now getting back into the game as a survivor main, so maybe I am wrong about that now. I will say, the gens feel like they're so naked and close to each other on this map.
Well you're not wrong, Haddonfield USED to be like that, but after the rework which I think was last year, the map got way more balanced.
they should add something where the removed house used to be, they could put the gen over there instead with maybe a small jungle gym-esque tile or maybe something similar to the mini shack car loop on garden of joy but not as strong
Exactly. Literally nothing spawns there. 1/4 of the map is empty grass
They said lets take our community back in time to 2016 Map creation lol 😅
Yet another example of BHVR being unable or unwilling to do smaller changes more often. The window vaults were a problem on the last version of Haddonfield, so what did they do? Change a ton of other stuff along with the windows. Why not just change the windows?
ive been getting so annoyed getting this map glad im not the only one