@@ScottJund I appreciate the video. Too many streamers are either saying “this is so OP” or “this is so terrible” right away… then they bitch about how the community only use the stuff they said was good, and they never see the “so terrible” stuff.. duh, you said never to use it.. games been out like 2 weeks.. let’s all just have fun. Lol. Good shit Scott.
it's crazy to me how many terrible useless spells/incants/weapons got added in this alongside 2 or 3 of the most horrendously overpowered things fromsoft has ever made. like how does romina's butterfly incant or divine bird feathers exist in the same dlc that gave us swift slash... thanks for sticking up for one of the very few cool new utility spells.
@@SekiberiusWelkeshno there is testing, just that it’s dev testing, which often is reduced to a dev standing still casting the spell onto a target that isn’t moving and has very little defenses because it’s faster to test that way. For pvp through it’s definitely no testing at all 😂
Because fromsoft generally just does not give a shit about PvP. Well, maybe 1/10 shits. The other 9 shits they have to give go towards PvE, as it should be.
Game devs often put broken/OP stuff for players to have fun with for a while, then nerf it. They do the opposite too, make some totally useless crap, then buff it (not necessarily to an OP state) to give players something new and fun. True balance is super hard, but this is a good way to keep players engaged and also provide new toys to play with without having to create any new assets. Not saying that's what From is doing here, but it's a thing.
@@hobojoe9717 I'm talking about both PVE and PVP, those incants I mentioned are bad for both scenarios, and they aren't the only extremely underpowered things in the dlc or the game at large, I just wonder why add a spell or weapon that's just terrible and has seemingly no actual use case.
This is like seeing that 1 guy on Tekken spamming snake edge (low attack sweep) and thinking its the best launch in the game, to rank up once and have everyone block on reaction, green rank strat
It takes one snake edge blocked on reaction to see their entire mental crumble. Tekken is sick, I started playing it back in DS3 days when I realized that there are actually games with good PVP out there unlike what Fromsoft makes.
@@TonguelessDanny Well ds2 was good. They can balance it decently well if they want to. It was only the netcode issue for ds2 imo. But yeah ds3 and ER I quit the pvp very early on and it's only a single player game for me
@@Rofel_Wodring okay, i loved DS2 but lets not pretend the PVP was balanced lol. Everyone was capable of being a max level havel monster/jester chest with 5 buffs and power stancing heavy weapons
@@TonguelessDanny the thing is, if they balanced the game properly and had good netcode the PVP would be fantastic. Unfortunately they are too incompetent for the latter and too indifferent to the former
Thanks for calling this out. Trying to argue with the streamer is futile. Chat becomes an echo chamber when a well respected and skilled player (jeenine being one of the most skilled) makes a claim like this.
tested: this is still slower than simply sprinting, meaning you can hit them before they enter miriam's i-frames ruclips.net/video/joKi4cuQ1T0/видео.html
i always find it super weird that he tested a very specific scenario and did not actually just try to use miriam in this super broken op way in actual pvp. like there was legit 0 real combat testing that happened edit: UPDATE JeeNine has made a short followup video letting people know he changed his mind on the spell and said he doesnt think its gonna be a problem. So its time for us to chill out.
Of all "fighting games" Souls/Elden Ring PvP is probably the simplest of them. A lot of the time it boils down to using a single attack, e.g. crouching collossal sword thrust + an awareness of the fundamentals of spacing. You really think the people that thrive in this environment are using their brains? Those that do move on quickly because this pattern is abysmal. I give Scott a few more weeks until he's maining DBD.
@@KyleAXIII maybe one of the best summaries of soulsborne pvp I’ve seen, ever. wish they valued creativity a bit more, from really does have one of the most unique and customizable systems in any fighting-adgacent game.
@@devasauruswrex6251 You can be sarcastic about it, and you're right, the average end user has lots of options, but what I'm talking about is meta. What would this game's most skilled players use? You can see for yourself that JeeNine has dozens of 20+ minute videos where he only uses the Collossal Greatsword thrusting attack. A great deal of weapons are useless, and some of them only have one attack that's worth using. It's a very simple fighting game.
@@KyleAXIIIit’s the same as fighting games in that regard, a character will have a bunch of moves, but only a handful will be affective, while the rest might have very niche uses. But honestly I wouldn’t really compare a souls game to a fighting game.
Plus, if you’re trying to chain it with carina slicer or other spells, you have to cycle back through to the spell. It’s not immediately at your disposal like BS is
@@canofsomething it's still gonna take a good few ms of time, so if you wanna dodge after it you 1: need to have miriam on slot 1 or at most 2, and 2: msut do it right after your next spell used, meaning it's not as good to do on reaction regardless(the reason bhs is still banned is because it's on-reaction i-frames with 0 setup limitations)
It is, in most situations, literally worse than walking towards the enemy. I dont know how this became such a thing some people freaked over. If you literally just "walk" at someone, you can roll on reaction for better I-frames without an extended startup. You also then have multiple options out of the roll including neutral jump, rolling attack, charging a heavy, using a weapon art, or an immediate second roll (which also has functionally no start up). It's an interesting tool, but "old bloodhound step"? These guys are delusional.
Agree with your take on this. Also, this spell's mix up potential is actively getting hindered by the spell slot system. You'll need like 400 apm to do back to back Miriam mix ups since you had to re-shuffle back to the Vanishing and the spell you want to chain after. They might have a case if this is an ash that is equip-able on every staff, but this is not it.
just gotta have miram's early in your rotation. For example Slicer --> Miriam --> Piercer --> Gavel, you can do either Slicer, Piercer, or Gavel out of Miram's easy, and revert back to Miriam's easy. If you don't like having to do Miriam's --> (hold button) --> Slicer, you can also put Miram's first in your rotation, but I like to have slicer first.
This is just the exact function as vow of the indomitable into roll extending your i-frames until the roll is done. It just also moves you wherever you want instead of standing in the spot.
Yeah this spell is perfectly balanced. It can't be spamed against aggression and doesn't lead to BS hits. You just have to get better at free aiming the camera and watching the mages movement to know where he went then react or predict. At worst you force a dodge and they wasted FP and didn't gain distance on you. Then you just play normally it isn't something to be used as a get out of jail card it's simply a mixup.
When I was playing PVP earlier today, most of my duels were either against people spamming Blind Spot or it was against people abusing with the Spread Crossbow with sleep bolts. The one time I fought someone who had Miriam’s Vanishing it was fun asf, especially compared to Blind Spot and the Spread Crossbow
agreed it can get a little annoying hwen they usee it in combo with light roll, but i shit you not, even with light roll that'smuch more mangaeable than quickstep or swift slash or spread crossbow. miriam vanishing is not at all broken and i honestly had fun playing against it, trying to figure out how to play around a player using a new tool that i had no idea how it worked.
Sleep crossbow spam is literally the most boring build one can run in duels. Dudes playing as passive as possible, only engage in melee when they put the other to sleep after 30th sleep bolt.
@@TK-7193I mean he also got popular because he won many ds3 pvp tournaments and was one of the few people still invading well after support for the game was dropped, oh I guess you can’t make a mistake or Redditors will come at you with vitriol and attack you as a person
I was in the stream when he was testing this. I tried to get him to test the distance traveled compared to running but couldn't get him to. Im sure if he did, he wouldn't have had the same opinion.
why does the guy with the lance keep swinging at exactly the wrong moment over and over again? how many times do you need to swing into the s to confirm that yes, it has s? why don't you swing at literally any other time and see when it DOESN'T have s, like you'd actually do if you were actually trying to hit the wizard?
The i-frames linger and have 0 frame recovery into rolling, recommend looking at framedata. Also it seems to be unpunishable on startup by a dagger, which comes out on frame 9. That's probably the fastest attack in the game
@@noot_er You can't punish just a regular roll on startup with dagger either, and that doesn't make infinite s. Yes, Miriam's vanishing lasts longer than a regular roll, and can be chained into a roll for a few extra s, but the price is that the much slower startup time makes it useless for dodging on reaction. It can only be used predictively. Plus the FP cost. A dodge so slow that you could see it starting up and interrupt it before the s started would be worse than useless. It would just be a giant hit me sign.
@@noot_er much like the subject of this video, you're deliberately ignoring the very clear time after the roll is over where you can hit the caster. Who cares if they can roll instantly out of vanishing? Any pvp player worth their salt can roll catch with their eyes closed and is going to laugh at anyone who tries to use this in any serious context. Not only that, you aren't using vanishing as a reaction like you were with bhs and regular rolls, and again, even if you are, you get a single one before you get smacked after your roll
@@noot_er Because you can start it from out of reach of attacks fast enough to catch it? It's a gap closing tool, which Miriam's Vanishing is much, much worse at.
Fighting this spell in duels is fucking awesome, my friend has the taps required to mixup between FOUR followup spells. I've found that rolling directly behind him can avoid a lot of what he has, but then he can actually rollcatch ME in certain circumstances. Coolest spell by far
YES! I'm having a blast on purr caster int/fth build with staff of the great beyond. I've included several mixups with Miriam's Vanishing and the most effective surprisingly was miriam into the stone of gurranq 2 hit true combo. Ppl just don't expect it or get rollcaught
@@justpython4021 It's so cool, it adds so much to duels. You can't completely invalidate it, but it doesn't automatically win either. It's another tool in an arsenal already rich with mixups. Obviously the funniest thing to do is Gavel out of the teleport since it catches a panic roll, but Adula's Moonblade can absolutely mince people too. Just my observations fighting my friend
I feel so vindicated for the G9 dislike. I don’t really wanna dogpile on him, but yeah it seems like he doesn’t really enjoy the game all that much. I think he might feel trapped by his audience and it’s just a cycle of complaining about invasions. Idk why he doesn’t pivot to duels, or he could very easily host 2v2s considering he has a platform
he does do 2v2s. he's definitely stuck doing souls pvp. its what his channel is built on and its what his subscribers watch him for. if he does any other game the videos wont do as well
It's still early, but the only people that I've seen use the spell are more or less high level PvP people. I haven't even encountered it myself while playing yet. I doubt I'm going to start meeting other players really using this spell to any great effect. It'll probably be invaders mostly, and if so, good for them, another good tool for countering clueless Gank Squads. Basically, I can see this spell being super powerful, but especially now, still in the early stages of just being introduced to players toolsets, most INT people will stick to just shooting the various magic missiles.
I think you're right for the most part. The part at 1:44 is kinda nutty though. Those lingering i-frames are really long. He definitely did a predictive slash there and still didn't hit.
Yeah I agree. I do not want to see this nerfed because of G's initial thoughts, he contributes to so many positive nerfs I would hate to see this get swept in with them on a future patch. Mages didn't really get much cool stuff this DLC imo, and to gut something actually cool and exciting would be a shame.
This video led me to go watch some Jeanine videos. Man I was turned off immediately. He seems super sweaty and salty. I don’t understand bitching about everything while invading. If you are dueling then maybe but if you are invading people’s games that are just trying to coop and don’t necessarily want to participate in pvp then don’t bitch about everything that is effective against you. I think that anyone who has multiple weapons of each type with different ashes on them and every consumable at their disposal should expect people to try and cheese them if possible. I see why the dudes channel doesn’t grow. I watch Oro because he is funny and entertaining not because he is good at the game. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I've used Miram's in like 500 duels so far and maybe fought against it 20-30 times, and I agree with everything you said. It just offers a prediction contest; if your opponent reads your next move you lose; if they don't, you win.
You have made me feel so validated, because i said LITERALLY the exact same thing on his video. Someone spamming this is doing nothong but wasting fp, and there is plenty of time to hit someone after the roll and before the next cast, but dude was just deliberately ignoring that to try to claim it's busted Damn does that feel good
Hahahaha, I thought Jeenine was going to play AC6 and never play Elden Ring again. At least that's what he kept saying for a long time in vids while also complaining ceaselessly about Elden Ring. Stopped watching his vids for a reason.
I was confused when people were saying G9 for the last couple weeks, but I recognize the actual typing of Jeenine. Yeah, I watched like a few of his videos a year ago, and pretty much was immediately turned off for how.... I don't want to say sweaty and toxic, but sweaty and toxic they were
@bbluva20 It's hard not to notice, especially since I've been following players like Peeve and Oroboro since the early days of the Souls community. They're both very much clearly enjoying themselves while playing, while all I ever hear Jeenine do is complain. Man is like the LowTierGod of the Souls community.
@@iota-09 That's totally fair, but at the very least believe me when I say Oro wants nothing less than things to be balanced enough to where everyone can have fun, and "winning" isn't everything.
It would be so cool if you had a separate spell slot bound to your R2 input, so you can put Miriam's Vanishing always at your disposal, and then combo with every other spell you have without cicling back and forth. But for some reason, Fromsoftware just loves the ability to bonk with staves and catalysts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That guy left mage alone as soon as they removed chaincasting glitch (and they argued like hell that it was a feature). He only uses what's OP or outright broken/ bugged.
chaincasting was super fun outside of a few broken things, spell combos are still a thing but they're a lot less fluid than they were when chaincasting existed. For me at least it's less about being super strong/op and more about feeling fun and skillful
Any of the scarab helmets + Beloved stardust + the talisman that makes you take double damage + all crucible talisman + either scarseal or another of the crucible talisman that increases damage taken. You take a metric crap ton of damage
@@mynameisjeff3940 People that see the new poise damage values. The only reason to stack poise is for 3v1 invasions, and even then you are better Enduring and spamming the appropriate attack button.
@@freewaytf fun and good are different things i'd say there's not that many fun spells mages have access to... carian slicer and piercer, and mayube the haima spells, everything else is not really that much if at all fun in pvp imho. maybe the gravity spells when there's more thna one target? i guess?
Jeenine is incredibly skilled, one of the best at elden ring invasions, without a doubt. But he is super toxic and exaggerates about anything he doesn't like or use. I genuinely believe that he either hates all other players or hates the game (or both). And his only outlet to hate everything about the game he's playing. That's all to say, I don't listen to anything he says, literally. If I watch him, his video is muted and I glean what I can from how he moves, the mixups he uses, what his swaps look like, etc. I remember seeing him invade a group of newer players and it was obvious that they were new. He proceeded to throw the shit pot at them, teabag them, and called them "trash fucking players". It was crystal clear from the way the tactics they used and the way they moved and panicked that they were new and he he spent a good 2 or 3 minutes while searching for the next game talking about how unskilled and no-life they were. And then he wonders why people leave the game and all that are left are the gank squads that he complains about. Like, mfer, your behavior the reason this shit happens in every souls game.
Exactly this. And I'd argue that Jeenine is not that skilled; ER PvP has a ton of exploits and bugs in it that make things extremely easy to one-shot or decimate opponents. The only skillful aspect is the speed at which he hardswaps between weapons, but everything else he does is just exploiting the most broken builds. I know the argument is that people use this so hopefully they get fixed, but it's to a point where he's not having fun, and folks going against him aren't having fun. The animation cancel exploits are also nonsensical. I stopped playing ER PvP because it takes way less skill than DaS3 PvP with all the spammy spells and animation cancels. I miss being able to outspace and counter people with sheer patience, strategy, and planning. Jeenine, amongst other "pro" ER PvP players have created a toxic, high-level play environment where if you don't play "their way", you have to git gud. Actually maidenless behavior.
Jeenine is lowkey what went wrong with the invader and PvP community in these games Ever since Jeenine became a thing, DS3 stopped being the same, and so it all went downhill from there
I saw that vid and I was thinking of what would be scott jund's take about it. Same thoughts with scott jund about the exaggeration of miriam's vanishing.
Well said! Had done my own testing and experimenting that morning prior to seeing this vid.: Observed the abysmal traversal compared to just uhhh ...sprinting. Also, dono if you found this in your testing but uneven terrain, a slight dip/divet in the ground, or even a snall rock or step of a staircase really shortens the teleport. For me it shortened enough where it would stop me a step just beyond the divet or small rise of terrain. This was true even when casting closer and trying to blink past it. But sometimes it would let me haha. So inconsistent 😅 Anywho, I agree sir 🤙🏾
@@couriersix7504nah it's pretty accurate. He didn't look at any frame data and freaked out. I love G9, been a fan for years. He occasionally has his lil freak moments but so does everyone else 🤷♀️
@@couriersix7504 "Uninformed " does not mean he doesn't know anything. He was uninformed of the real stats of Miriam's vanishing. He has admitted to ignorance in the previous video. Not informed. He is now informed. Previously, not informed. Uninformed.
I got banned for saying that INT characters needed something like this, then his chat flamed me for it for like an hour. I'm dropping my sub to him and sending it your way. Fuck jee9, I looked up to him and got banned for expressing an opinion. God forbid INT based characters get anything cool.
I always get the feeling he’s grumpy and he always complains whenever I watch him do invasions. Unlike Scott Lost or chase who actually seem to enjoy the game Jee9 seems like the type of person hate play a game even though he’s long since stoped enjoying it.
give him a break, he plays eldenring pvp every day, you think anyone can be mentally stable from that kind of torture? And chats will always glaze the streamer, that's the #1 rule of chatting, shouldn't be surprised there. he and his chat are definitely not the sharpest tools in the shed, im not disagreeing with you but I'm pretty sure you exaggerated your experience cause getting banned means you can't read chat anymore so you have no way of knowing how much of chat was flaming you or for how long.
@@tasin2776 Two days ago. EMERGENCY PATCH 1.12.3 LIVE COVERAGE. Time Stamp: 2:01:45 Me: "I think casters need this lmao" Jee: "I think you need to get banned, because you don't know what you're talking about." Please partake in a Chlorox Cocktail, fanboy.
Using vanishing on my silly micolash cosplay and it works well maybe 2 times in 10 matches, most of the time I get hit out of it before it can fully go off or I cast it and it does nothing for me bc I just uselessly move 5 feet in a direction after incorrectly guessing my opponent is about to attack. And that’s really the crux of it; Miriam’s vanishing only works well if you’re a step ahead, you cant reaction cast like you would roll dodge bc even with the highest cast speed only collosals will miss you, any other weapon would catch you before you can teleport
Imo, miriam's vanishing should be buffed, by increasing the distance traveled but increasing its fp cost to 10-15 (it should still be slightly slower than running) That way the spell would overall be strenger, but also less spammable, which is the dominant problem of elden ring in regards to magic or ashes of war
Miriam's vanishing grants mages a mixup tool they didn't have previously (exclusing spell animation canceling before that nerf/fix), and therefore, it will take people a while to get used to it. People being hyperbolic in regards to MV's power level is natural, considering how new and unexplored it is, no matter how wrong or right they may end up being. On that note, however, I do agree that comparing it to pre-nerf bloodhound step is a massive reach. Not every new move with i-frames is the next meta-defining, pvp-ruining scrub magnet. ...maybe with the exception of blind spot.
a common scenario for people in the pvp scene is losing it when a patch changes thigns around or new ontent is added and overreacting to every little thingm, like everyone saying games was dead after patches 1.09/1.10, and then actually having the time of their life with the new poise system.(tbf some things were indeed broken in that patch, btut in a controlled enveirenmetn with bans and such it was fine) now after people saw spread crossbow, blindspot and swift slash, everyone's jumping the gun looking for more and more broken stuff trying to get them patched before from forgets, causing however lots of false positives like this.
Scott I need you to complain about the carian sorcery sword. It feels terrible in PvE but has a niche in PvP. It got buffed but still feels like a downgrade instead of a sidegrade
I seriously can't figure out why someone would use it. want weapon + staff? use both hands want weapon staff and shield? shield-weapon + staff does it better want weapon staff and seal? great beyond staff + weapon does it better
@@rod4309 I've extensively used it in pvp and pve. The weapon is straight terrible in PvE sadly. In PvP, it's very mid. Rather have a catalyst in left hand and have a real weapon in right. Though since it's light af 2.5 weight wtf. You'd probably be able to be a battle mage with like 100 poise and mid roll lol.
@@Subchesire Exactly! I was trying to find some sort of a reason someone might want to use it anyway but there are better alternatives to all of them! I guess weight miiiiight be a reason, but... I feel like the damage lost isn't worth it thrusting swords and staves are already pretty light, so you're probably not gaining much in armor for that trade.
So weird to see when really good players get stuck on stupid with certain things. Happens more often with certain people- Inferno Plus and Oroboro are the big ones that come to mind. Peeve meanwhile remains the goat when it comes to thsi stuff.
Oro is just an assclown. You can take him off this list since he is just a no talent bug abuser. Steel, Chase, Scott, Waifu, Lost, now those are fun people to watch since they enjoy the game and not just winning.
@@halcyon1644 Not really Elden Ring stuff as far as I'm aware but what I really mean is stuff from the past. Inferno used to swear that every weapon in DS3 that basically wasn't S tier or have niche uses. Most annoying one from him I saw was his video on the crow quills, which were actually an amazing pvp weapon in the right hands where he basically calls them trash that belongs in the dumpster. Oroboro was kind of the opposite in that he wouldn't recognize cheese for what it was. Most infamous example was him popularizing the Haveline in DS2, but my personal favorite was when he used the Dragon Slayer Swordspear to fight his own twitch viewers. Also used a buckler in a parrying challenge against Peeverson while he was using a medium shield during most of it and still won.
Have you tried offhand Beast Claw yet? It has wild forward momentum and it allows you to immediately act out of an L1 with your mainhand weapon. Could allow for some really interesting combos, even some sick spell setups maybe. Doubt it's that useful in invasions but in the arena it could work.
If u chase someone using Miriam’s vanishing and u wanna hit them when I-frames end I suggest either using heavy attack or running, when I used light attack i got backstab attempt on air a lot of times
Unrelated to miriams: I found something interesting. The bridge that leads to the lever that lowers the water in the church district eats your projectile animations. Could be absolutely filthy for invasions as the the damage still happens but it makes your projectiles invisible. Can anyone else test this out?
I cannot... stand this guy... He is so good but holy christ, most toxic person and group of people on Twitch, and i mean that literally and with DBD in mind. They approach every group of pve players like they're an affront on their lives. To say any of these totally reasonable counterpoints would have been an easy ban (with experience). Thank you for saying literally anything on this. Jee can not have a discussion about anything with his chat around.
I've noticed the really hardcore pvp community for souls games is against anything that forces them to think of new approaches or think outside of the basics. You see the same thing for backstep s too. Both things are great for the game as they encourage different approaches and allow for more mixups.
nahnah hold on backstep s are cool and currently not banned in ladder BUT they can be genuinely broken due to a few very awkward interactions especially at latency, that latter part is why hardcore pvpers may not like backstep s but when ds2 had them, you're looking at the wrong people who are complaining.
@@iota-09 ds2 and elden ring backstep are different. even if in ds2, the i-frames were attached to agility, it was somewhat balanced and you could still caught people. the ds2 backsteps consumed more stamina and because the overall stamina consumption in every action it was not so spammeable. you could not perform it while being staggered something that even elden ring allows, you can even punish follow ups of some weapons like shamshir or PSSS. and finally in ds2 because it was an mechanic, you know that someone can pull it off in the middle of combat, meanwhile in elden ring there's not indication if someone has the talisman equipped besides the opponents behavior and the damage dealt, so it becomes a mind game inside the mind game.
I agree. I've noticed a lot of forced hate for the new additions to the game, granted some genuinely broken, but most aren't not broken really. They're strong options for someone's build and they're just upset that they have to think a tad bit harder to figure out a counter to someone's setup
@@WeeabooPocky tbf i've not had much of a chance to play around with the backstep in er much myself... and even less in ds2, i just know that pvpers love ds2 and that ds2 had i-frames on backstep.
@@Angels-Haven He hates people with bad internet. Souls games rely on peer-to-peer connections, so having bad internet is comparable to cheating. I dont see how that complaint is so bad when the guy deals with century link users all day.
I'm not very surprised by his take on this, And I entirely agree with Scott here. I won't deny for a second that Jeenine is one of the best souls players out there, but I've been to some of his streams and I've heard some of his takes, and they can sometimes be somewhat biased and hypocritical. He absolutely knows the ins and outs of PvP, I just hope not too many people take what he says as gospel just because of that.
I think some streamers are just creating outrage to get attention. I used the spell, it's only good on high latency, and I still would rather have bloodhound's step then.
Need to remember that Elden Ring has vastly more players than the Souls series combined. Roll catching is still being learned by the new PvP players. It's not OP, but the new players don't know the full tactics of PvP yet
They genuinely did pure int dirty There's no pure int weapon unlike both arcane or faith You need staves to use spells which are gonna weigh more Beloved stardust becomes useless because of its huge dmg absorption reduction(though this is a caster thing) There's literally no pure int dmg spells except the finger ones(the moon id say is literally the worst spell in the game) I donna i feel like im ranting a bit And this is all just my current opinion so... U know Anyways super happy to see someone defend int Like, its mostly memes and jokes but literally everyone hates on sorcerers in the whole soulsborne franchise
glinstone nails are decent as a harass tool as they they linger due to how their tracking works and are fp efficient gravitational missile is just straight up good - great at zoning and can be free aimed on the ground or nearby surfaces to explode, and sends people flying which gives more opportunity for wakeup punishes. Also pairs well with waves of darkness, the best zoning AoW in the game that benefits the most from int Fleeting microcosm is decent albeit situational I agree that I would've liked to have gotten more int stuff but it's not like int recieved nothing good.
This is a lot harder to fight against with KB&M and low DPI. I'm at 400-500 DPI and since you lose lock on it's very hard to turn camera around fast enough. I guess maybe storm stomp might help. A lot of things are hard to do though at low dpi, like rolling in to backstabs. I wish i would've started ER with a controller.
Imagine he would listen to also to the people who disagree with his takes, but he rather bans them on stream if you disagree with him. Either you say the same as Jee or you get banned and annoyed in chat by small Jees. He is a skilled player but he also has to be open-minded when it comes to some form of critic or disagreement.
Not everyone. But it is a bit ridiculous. Playing invasions with sorcery only is quite tricky, and you really need to find openings. Ironically, magic really requires some...intelligence...to make work. Especially with so many people packing op fast melee moves, incantations that outspeed casters by far, and generally just do everything so as getting even a simple spell off to be really tricky. Not to mention how easy most spells are to dodge. I think the disdain many people have comes from when they didn't yet learn to dodge many spells - then they probably got dunked on and hard by clever uses of spells. Plus, using ranged attacks VS someone who only does melee...but the melee only players are restricting themselves there with no ranged combat options.
@@buckyhurdle4776 Hahahahahahahah IKR? Strength is so op that it took me only 3 attempts to beat the final boss of the DLC (still trying not to spoil it) without knowing anything going in. Level 150 with mimic ashes (Yes is OP) and with PS Rusty Anchors (cragblade AOW). Fireknight greatsword was a struggle with him then after switching to anchors it was super easy. I had to face tank many of the dumbass stuff but still was not hard with the correct build. I don't know if I will be able to do it as a solo magician though but that is coming soon.
I've tried to like this spell. The best it got was 1: Utilizing it with back hand blades ash of war. (It's still meh) 2: bosses that instantly jump at you in the beginning of battles (Still meh) Just looks cool but viability wise, it's weird.
I saw his video of him using the I-frames on that + the I-frame backstep talisman to troll dudes for 10 minutes while they barely hit him. I just thought to myself "Man, you're spending all this FP and wasting all this time to not even do anything to them, this is hard countered by them turning a corner or hiding behind a wall instead of chasing". Maybe that doesn't apply in duels where there aren't any walls, and yes it does make catching kiting players even more annoying, but it can't be broken if it costs you resources while not actually advancing your win (BHS was so fast that people could use it to outpace standard movement and then get a quick ranged hit in and even that wasn't actually broken, it was just insanely annoying). It IS degen as hell because it makes stalling and playing reactively even more powerful and that's just not fun because a game state where neither player is incentivized to actually attack is AWFUL (which happens a lot in high level Souls PVP), but that's not the argument I've seen.
G9 gets a lot of things wrong or rather he holds his own opinions and preferences to a sky high regard. He's very good at pvp and has crazy reflexes but I find it difficult to watch him with audio because he doesn't take losing very well. He doesn't yell or hurl insults he just refuses to believe in chance or being genuinely (if rarely) outplayed. I believe his quick reflexes and high ego translates into making videos like that one saying the vanish is OP
You know, I think you've brought me around on this, as I did have some initial concerns when looking at the spell's frame data. Miriam's vanishing does have one little quirk that still bugs me: the teleport will still go off even if you get interrupted partway through the startup.
@@amen123abcd they can still be somewhat infinite on latency if you're fatrolling iirc, but regualr backstep on medium weight with a regular weapon is fine if not even weak
THANK YOU! This is exactly what I've been saying about Miriam's Vanishing on his upload but this is put out much much more eloquently. MV is a really FUN spell when it works, but it is far from OP with how Jee put it. I just think Jee's hot-take on MV to be quite wild, so I'm actually looking forward to the PvP montage using MV that he told me he would do. Magic is at its best when a new spell isn't just another remix of Soul Arrow. I really don't want to see Miriam's Vanishing get nerfed because its a fun spell that was added.
I think it's just that he hasn't played around with it much. I can't wait for when Jee tests it again. On paper, it does look like something that is broken, but it's really not
I need to see someone use this effectively. I haven't seen it yet. I don't think this is op but I could see it be op if a host can perma spam it while phantoms gank you. Has yet to happen for me.
Miriam's not really broken, it's sort of just a scuffed 50/50 move that you use to mask your next cast. For example miriam's vanishing into someone with gavel of haima followup is solid if they don't expect it, but people who know about that and see a mage teleporting into them will immediately expect that and dodge/punish. I believe miriam's also has like >20 frames of startup so it's not really going to be usable vs an aggressive player who is using a quick punish
can you guys stop being dicks for literally no reason, jesus
@@ScottJund the pvpers are the toxic ones tho 🥱
Welcome to the internet scooter, enjoy your stay.
Hey Scott, how do you get so many scarlet bud? I saw you had over 900
@@ScottJund I appreciate the video. Too many streamers are either saying “this is so OP” or “this is so terrible” right away… then they bitch about how the community only use the stuff they said was good, and they never see the “so terrible” stuff.. duh, you said never to use it.. games been out like 2 weeks.. let’s all just have fun. Lol. Good shit Scott.
@@sayozrespubilk894duping with friends
it's crazy to me how many terrible useless spells/incants/weapons got added in this alongside 2 or 3 of the most horrendously overpowered things fromsoft has ever made.
like how does romina's butterfly incant or divine bird feathers exist in the same dlc that gave us swift slash...
thanks for sticking up for one of the very few cool new utility spells.
No testing, that's how, there's no other explanation that makes sense.
@@SekiberiusWelkeshno there is testing, just that it’s dev testing, which often is reduced to a dev standing still casting the spell onto a target that isn’t moving and has very little defenses because it’s faster to test that way.
For pvp through it’s definitely no testing at all 😂
Because fromsoft generally just does not give a shit about PvP. Well, maybe 1/10 shits. The other 9 shits they have to give go towards PvE, as it should be.
Game devs often put broken/OP stuff for players to have fun with for a while, then nerf it. They do the opposite too, make some totally useless crap, then buff it (not necessarily to an OP state) to give players something new and fun. True balance is super hard, but this is a good way to keep players engaged and also provide new toys to play with without having to create any new assets. Not saying that's what From is doing here, but it's a thing.
@@hobojoe9717 I'm talking about both PVE and PVP, those incants I mentioned are bad for both scenarios, and they aren't the only extremely underpowered things in the dlc or the game at large, I just wonder why add a spell or weapon that's just terrible and has seemingly no actual use case.
This is like seeing that 1 guy on Tekken spamming snake edge (low attack sweep) and thinking its the best launch in the game, to rank up once and have everyone block on reaction, green rank strat
It takes one snake edge blocked on reaction to see their entire mental crumble. Tekken is sick, I started playing it back in DS3 days when I realized that there are actually games with good PVP out there unlike what Fromsoft makes.
@@krypticmdmn2676 or when you sidestep a hellsweep lol
@@TonguelessDanny Well ds2 was good. They can balance it decently well if they want to. It was only the netcode issue for ds2 imo. But yeah ds3 and ER I quit the pvp very early on and it's only a single player game for me
@@Rofel_Wodring okay, i loved DS2 but lets not pretend the PVP was balanced lol. Everyone was capable of being a max level havel monster/jester chest with 5 buffs and power stancing heavy weapons
@@TonguelessDanny the thing is, if they balanced the game properly and had good netcode the PVP would be fantastic. Unfortunately they are too incompetent for the latter and too indifferent to the former
Thanks for calling this out. Trying to argue with the streamer is futile. Chat becomes an echo chamber when a well respected and skilled player (jeenine being one of the most skilled) makes a claim like this.
Literally just a cesspool of people who idolize Jeenie
It doesn't help that it's magic, and it's popular to hate magic.
double dogpile.
Jeanine has some brain dead takes.
Jeenine's community is so bad for him, constantly validating his shit takes.
Jeanine is often times brain dead because his fan base rarely challenges him instead they bend over to him often. It’s just sad both ways.
Miriam's into Bloodhound step into roll
tested: this is still slower than simply sprinting, meaning you can hit them before they enter miriam's i-frames ruclips.net/video/joKi4cuQ1T0/видео.html
@@ScottJund So Miriam's is just a flex slot for Mage builds then lmao
@@WakeUpUniverse66down for that lol
@@ScottJund video is private
@@moiraine6453 woops ty
infinite i frames(if you only attack it during i frames and ignore the downtime and wind up before s even start)
EXACTLY bro, you gotta wonder what tf he was cooking when he tried to say that
i always find it super weird that he tested a very specific scenario and did not actually just try to use miriam in this super broken op way in actual pvp. like there was legit 0 real combat testing that happened
edit: UPDATE JeeNine has made a short followup video letting people know he changed his mind on the spell and said he doesnt think its gonna be a problem. So its time for us to chill out.
Oh he's not interested in mage builds at all, so that's sadly no surprise.
Of all "fighting games" Souls/Elden Ring PvP is probably the simplest of them. A lot of the time it boils down to using a single attack, e.g. crouching collossal sword thrust + an awareness of the fundamentals of spacing. You really think the people that thrive in this environment are using their brains? Those that do move on quickly because this pattern is abysmal.
I give Scott a few more weeks until he's maining DBD.
@@KyleAXIII maybe one of the best summaries of soulsborne pvp I’ve seen, ever. wish they valued creativity a bit more, from really does have one of the most unique and customizable systems in any fighting-adgacent game.
@@devasauruswrex6251 You can be sarcastic about it, and you're right, the average end user has lots of options, but what I'm talking about is meta. What would this game's most skilled players use? You can see for yourself that JeeNine has dozens of 20+ minute videos where he only uses the Collossal Greatsword thrusting attack. A great deal of weapons are useless, and some of them only have one attack that's worth using. It's a very simple fighting game.
@@KyleAXIIIit’s the same as fighting games in that regard, a character will have a bunch of moves, but only a handful will be affective, while the rest might have very niche uses. But honestly I wouldn’t really compare a souls game to a fighting game.
Plus, if you’re trying to chain it with carina slicer or other spells, you have to cycle back through to the spell. It’s not immediately at your disposal like BS is
If you didn’t know you can hold up on dpad and it should bring you back to your first spell
@@canofsomething it's still gonna take a good few ms of time, so if you wanna dodge after it you 1: need to have miriam on slot 1 or at most 2, and 2: msut do it right after your next spell used, meaning it's not as good to do on reaction regardless(the reason bhs is still banned is because it's on-reaction i-frames with 0 setup limitations)
It is, in most situations, literally worse than walking towards the enemy. I dont know how this became such a thing some people freaked over. If you literally just "walk" at someone, you can roll on reaction for better I-frames without an extended startup. You also then have multiple options out of the roll including neutral jump, rolling attack, charging a heavy, using a weapon art, or an immediate second roll (which also has functionally no start up). It's an interesting tool, but "old bloodhound step"? These guys are delusional.
Agree with your take on this.
Also, this spell's mix up potential is actively getting hindered by the spell slot system. You'll need like 400 apm to do back to back Miriam mix ups since you had to re-shuffle back to the Vanishing and the spell you want to chain after. They might have a case if this is an ash that is equip-able on every staff, but this is not it.
Omg yeah, chaining gavel in and out of vanish is hard on my hands lmao
just gotta have miram's early in your rotation. For example Slicer --> Miriam --> Piercer --> Gavel, you can do either Slicer, Piercer, or Gavel out of Miram's easy, and revert back to Miriam's easy. If you don't like having to do Miriam's --> (hold button) --> Slicer, you can also put Miram's first in your rotation, but I like to have slicer first.
@@hobosorcerer lmao elden ring players when given any mechanical dificulty. try playing any fighting game
Tbh, it really makes me wish they had turned the chain-casting glitch into an actual feature, rather than outright removing it.
@@hobosorcererhey there fellow hobo!
This is just the exact function as vow of the indomitable into roll extending your i-frames until the roll is done. It just also moves you wherever you want instead of standing in the spot.
Thank you idk what g9 was doing
Missinformation allows for clickbait titles
G9 fell off fr
@@tylerpeters6272 How can you fall off from 3k views average per vid. No height to fall off from.
@@Hura_the_Blessedikr crazy how you can think your correct but actually be wrong imagine that
Yeah this spell is perfectly balanced. It can't be spamed against aggression and doesn't lead to BS hits. You just have to get better at free aiming the camera and watching the mages movement to know where he went then react or predict.
At worst you force a dodge and they wasted FP and didn't gain distance on you. Then you just play normally it isn't something to be used as a get out of jail card it's simply a mixup.
When I was playing PVP earlier today, most of my duels were either against people spamming Blind Spot or it was against people abusing with the Spread Crossbow with sleep bolts. The one time I fought someone who had Miriam’s Vanishing it was fun asf, especially compared to Blind Spot and the Spread Crossbow
agreed
it can get a little annoying hwen they usee it in combo with light roll, but i shit you not, even with light roll that'smuch more mangaeable than quickstep or swift slash or spread crossbow.
miriam vanishing is not at all broken and i honestly had fun playing against it, trying to figure out how to play around a player using a new tool that i had no idea how it worked.
Sleep crossbow spam is literally the most boring build one can run in duels. Dudes playing as passive as possible, only engage in melee when they put the other to sleep after 30th sleep bolt.
I’m glade I’m not the only one wondering what the fresh fuck he was think comparing Miriam’s vanishing to pre nerf Blood hound step.
mfw the sweaty tryhard that got famous by killing noobs and using exploits isnt a trustworthy source of credible information
@@TK-7193I mean he also got popular because he won many ds3 pvp tournaments and was one of the few people still invading well after support for the game was dropped, oh I guess you can’t make a mistake or Redditors will come at you with vitriol and attack you as a person
@@mynameisjeff3940 too bad literally all the people he invades arent ds3 tourney tryhard material, so no one puts up a fight against him.
@@TK-7193 no matter how good you are 3v1 is hard to win with all the crazy spells and broken stuff.
@@TK-7193 they don’t need to be anywhere near as good as him to beat him so what’s ur point exactly
I was in the stream when he was testing this. I tried to get him to test the distance traveled compared to running but couldn't get him to. Im sure if he did, he wouldn't have had the same opinion.
Yeah Miriam's is not broken. A lot of people are being deliberately disingenuous regarding new stuff if it doesnt directly buff thier own playstyle.
why does the guy with the lance keep swinging at exactly the wrong moment over and over again? how many times do you need to swing into the s to confirm that yes, it has s? why don't you swing at literally any other time and see when it DOESN'T have s, like you'd actually do if you were actually trying to hit the wizard?
The i-frames linger and have 0 frame recovery into rolling, recommend looking at framedata. Also it seems to be unpunishable on startup by a dagger, which comes out on frame 9. That's probably the fastest attack in the game
@@noot_er You can't punish just a regular roll on startup with dagger either, and that doesn't make infinite s. Yes, Miriam's vanishing lasts longer than a regular roll, and can be chained into a roll for a few extra s, but the price is that the much slower startup time makes it useless for dodging on reaction. It can only be used predictively. Plus the FP cost. A dodge so slow that you could see it starting up and interrupt it before the s started would be worse than useless. It would just be a giant hit me sign.
@@noot_er much like the subject of this video, you're deliberately ignoring the very clear time after the roll is over where you can hit the caster. Who cares if they can roll instantly out of vanishing? Any pvp player worth their salt can roll catch with their eyes closed and is going to laugh at anyone who tries to use this in any serious context. Not only that, you aren't using vanishing as a reaction like you were with bhs and regular rolls, and again, even if you are, you get a single one before you get smacked after your roll
@@yozul1 then how come blinkbolt that has punishable "cast" and recovery is still plenty strong
@@noot_er Because you can start it from out of reach of attacks fast enough to catch it? It's a gap closing tool, which Miriam's Vanishing is much, much worse at.
With how much you have to predict your opponent to use this its far closer to raptor of the mists than bloodhounds step
Yep was confused about that take too lol
Old bhs had s on frame 1. Vanishing is used on preditcion, not reaction.
Fighting this spell in duels is fucking awesome, my friend has the taps required to mixup between FOUR followup spells. I've found that rolling directly behind him can avoid a lot of what he has, but then he can actually rollcatch ME in certain circumstances. Coolest spell by far
Having to press up on the dpad during my command dash spell activates my neurons
YES! I'm having a blast on purr caster int/fth build with staff of the great beyond. I've included several mixups with Miriam's Vanishing and the most effective surprisingly was miriam into the stone of gurranq 2 hit true combo. Ppl just don't expect it or get rollcaught
@@justpython4021 It's so cool, it adds so much to duels. You can't completely invalidate it, but it doesn't automatically win either. It's another tool in an arsenal already rich with mixups.
Obviously the funniest thing to do is Gavel out of the teleport since it catches a panic roll, but Adula's Moonblade can absolutely mince people too. Just my observations fighting my friend
I feel so vindicated for the G9 dislike. I don’t really wanna dogpile on him, but yeah it seems like he doesn’t really enjoy the game all that much. I think he might feel trapped by his audience and it’s just a cycle of complaining about invasions. Idk why he doesn’t pivot to duels, or he could very easily host 2v2s considering he has a platform
he does do 2v2s. he's definitely stuck doing souls pvp. its what his channel is built on and its what his subscribers watch him for. if he does any other game the videos wont do as well
@@charwhales3194 Kinda makes you think he might be the issue, huh? Maybe he should do some self reflecting and fix his garbage attitude.
G9 is such a complainer, probably just thirsty for something to hate on and get people behind him
At this point he might as well just complain about Vow of Indomitable.
It's still early, but the only people that I've seen use the spell are more or less high level PvP people. I haven't even encountered it myself while playing yet.
I doubt I'm going to start meeting other players really using this spell to any great effect. It'll probably be invaders mostly, and if so, good for them, another good tool for countering clueless Gank Squads.
Basically, I can see this spell being super powerful, but especially now, still in the early stages of just being introduced to players toolsets, most INT people will stick to just shooting the various magic missiles.
Fuck all this shit Scott. Make a vid about beloved stardust, I need that shit to get buffed lmaooo
it would be a 3 second video saying "its not worth it"
@@ScottJund honestly wouldnt be suprised if you actually did make that
Radagon’s icon is better lol
@@ScottJundI'd watch a ten minute video of you repeatedly saying it's bad, just in the hopes that someone in From might notice 😢
10 seconds video:
20 dex and radagon icon gets you to an already very usable casting speed, azur staff makes you competitive.
next
I think you're right for the most part. The part at 1:44 is kinda nutty though. Those lingering i-frames are really long. He definitely did a predictive slash there and still didn't hit.
Yeah I agree. I do not want to see this nerfed because of G's initial thoughts, he contributes to so many positive nerfs I would hate to see this get swept in with them on a future patch. Mages didn't really get much cool stuff this DLC imo, and to gut something actually cool and exciting would be a shame.
This video led me to go watch some Jeanine videos. Man I was turned off immediately. He seems super sweaty and salty. I don’t understand bitching about everything while invading. If you are dueling then maybe but if you are invading people’s games that are just trying to coop and don’t necessarily want to participate in pvp then don’t bitch about everything that is effective against you. I think that anyone who has multiple weapons of each type with different ashes on them and every consumable at their disposal should expect people to try and cheese them if possible. I see why the dudes channel doesn’t grow. I watch Oro because he is funny and entertaining not because he is good at the game. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I've used Miram's in like 500 duels so far and maybe fought against it 20-30 times, and I agree with everything you said. It just offers a prediction contest; if your opponent reads your next move you lose; if they don't, you win.
Lol all i do is duel and i have yet to see it.
You have made me feel so validated, because i said LITERALLY the exact same thing on his video. Someone spamming this is doing nothong but wasting fp, and there is plenty of time to hit someone after the roll and before the next cast, but dude was just deliberately ignoring that to try to claim it's busted
Damn does that feel good
He was just click baiting left and right because...
Hahahaha, I thought Jeenine was going to play AC6 and never play Elden Ring again. At least that's what he kept saying for a long time in vids while also complaining ceaselessly about Elden Ring. Stopped watching his vids for a reason.
I was confused when people were saying G9 for the last couple weeks, but I recognize the actual typing of Jeenine.
Yeah, I watched like a few of his videos a year ago, and pretty much was immediately turned off for how.... I don't want to say sweaty and toxic, but sweaty and toxic they were
@bbluva20 It's hard not to notice, especially since I've been following players like Peeve and Oroboro since the early days of the Souls community. They're both very much clearly enjoying themselves while playing, while all I ever hear Jeenine do is complain. Man is like the LowTierGod of the Souls community.
@@SpacePirateLord yup, Peeve and Oro all the way. Meta? Ew
@@SpacePirateLord and that's saying something when in my perspective een oro is too much at times...
@@iota-09 That's totally fair, but at the very least believe me when I say Oro wants nothing less than things to be balanced enough to where everyone can have fun, and "winning" isn't everything.
It would be so cool if you had a separate spell slot bound to your R2 input, so you can put Miriam's Vanishing always at your disposal, and then combo with every other spell you have without cicling back and forth. But for some reason, Fromsoftware just loves the ability to bonk with staves and catalysts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or the ability to slot a spell into the AoW since there are currently zero ashes worth using/useable on staves and seals
That guy left mage alone as soon as they removed chaincasting glitch (and they argued like hell that it was a feature). He only uses what's OP or outright broken/ bugged.
chaincasting was super fun outside of a few broken things, spell combos are still a thing but they're a lot less fluid than they were when chaincasting existed. For me at least it's less about being super strong/op and more about feeling fun and skillful
Any of the scarab helmets + Beloved stardust + the talisman that makes you take double damage + all crucible talisman + either scarseal or another of the crucible talisman that increases damage taken.
You take a metric crap ton of damage
Vile Scott chasing more youtuber drama, smh..........
CURSE YOU SCOTT!!!!
Why would voicing his opinion be drama? He's allowed to disagree without being labeled as a drama queen.
@@392Hemi-x3it's sarcasm
@@392Hemi-x3how are you so dense you can’t detect blatant sarcasm bud
@@392Hemi-x3 r/whooosh
poise stacking great spear users left shocked and distraught after other builds get something they can’t counter with a running heavy attack
Poise and powerstanced great spears are not even good anymore.
also great spears have notoriously bad running heavies what are you talking about
Who doesn’t poise stack?
@@mynameisjeff3940 People that see the new poise damage values. The only reason to stack poise is for 3v1 invasions, and even then you are better Enduring and spamming the appropriate attack button.
god the only fun spell and people already want it nerfed why cant we mages have something fun for once in our life
this is peak comedy
@@freewaytf fun and good are different things
i'd say there's not that many fun spells mages have access to... carian slicer and piercer, and mayube the haima spells, everything else is not really that much if at all fun in pvp imho.
maybe the gravity spells when there's more thna one target? i guess?
Nerf all two handed poise builds. There. I’ve said my peace
@@Garl_Vinland just outspace and whiff punish my guy
@@charwhales3194 Sure, if you have the range,
Jeenine is incredibly skilled, one of the best at elden ring invasions, without a doubt. But he is super toxic and exaggerates about anything he doesn't like or use. I genuinely believe that he either hates all other players or hates the game (or both). And his only outlet to hate everything about the game he's playing. That's all to say, I don't listen to anything he says, literally. If I watch him, his video is muted and I glean what I can from how he moves, the mixups he uses, what his swaps look like, etc.
I remember seeing him invade a group of newer players and it was obvious that they were new. He proceeded to throw the shit pot at them, teabag them, and called them "trash fucking players". It was crystal clear from the way the tactics they used and the way they moved and panicked that they were new and he he spent a good 2 or 3 minutes while searching for the next game talking about how unskilled and no-life they were.
And then he wonders why people leave the game and all that are left are the gank squads that he complains about. Like, mfer, your behavior the reason this shit happens in every souls game.
Exactly this. And I'd argue that Jeenine is not that skilled; ER PvP has a ton of exploits and bugs in it that make things extremely easy to one-shot or decimate opponents. The only skillful aspect is the speed at which he hardswaps between weapons, but everything else he does is just exploiting the most broken builds. I know the argument is that people use this so hopefully they get fixed, but it's to a point where he's not having fun, and folks going against him aren't having fun. The animation cancel exploits are also nonsensical.
I stopped playing ER PvP because it takes way less skill than DaS3 PvP with all the spammy spells and animation cancels. I miss being able to outspace and counter people with sheer patience, strategy, and planning. Jeenine, amongst other "pro" ER PvP players have created a toxic, high-level play environment where if you don't play "their way", you have to git gud. Actually maidenless behavior.
Jeenine is lowkey what went wrong with the invader and PvP community in these games
Ever since Jeenine became a thing, DS3 stopped being the same, and so it all went downhill from there
🫤 Internet dweebs leaving a comment hating on someone when the video has nothing to do with shit talking
@@Sohelanthropuswhat “community”? You are right about DS3 and PvP going downhill. FromSlopware keeps making PvP worse with every new game.
He's the personification of what normal people think of when they hear "professional Soulsborne invaders" (derogatory).
I saw that vid and I was thinking of what would be scott jund's take about it. Same thoughts with scott jund about the exaggeration of miriam's vanishing.
Well said! Had done my own testing and experimenting that morning prior to seeing this vid.:
Observed the abysmal traversal compared to just uhhh ...sprinting.
Also, dono if you found this in your testing but uneven terrain, a slight dip/divet in the ground, or even a snall rock or step of a staircase really shortens the teleport. For me it shortened enough where it would stop me a step just beyond the divet or small rise of terrain. This was true even when casting closer and trying to blink past it. But sometimes it would let me haha. So inconsistent 😅
Anywho, I agree sir 🤙🏾
jeenine has an uninformed reactionary take? shocker
Shocking how the guy making the video has more respect for another opinion, noice
Uninformed is absolutely the wrong word 🤣
@@couriersix7504nah it's pretty accurate. He didn't look at any frame data and freaked out. I love G9, been a fan for years. He occasionally has his lil freak moments but so does everyone else 🤷♀️
@@Annuhlynne so surely if you know who he is, he isn’t uninformed
@@couriersix7504 "Uninformed " does not mean he doesn't know anything. He was uninformed of the real stats of Miriam's vanishing. He has admitted to ignorance in the previous video. Not informed. He is now informed. Previously, not informed. Uninformed.
aaah, the good old "I can't kill you, but you can't kill me either"
I got banned for saying that INT characters needed something like this, then his chat flamed me for it for like an hour. I'm dropping my sub to him and sending it your way. Fuck jee9, I looked up to him and got banned for expressing an opinion. God forbid INT based characters get anything cool.
I imagine it's the way you said
@Nehilism honestly this was the correct decision mage=soy cleric=gigachad
I always get the feeling he’s grumpy and he always complains whenever I watch him do invasions. Unlike Scott Lost or chase who actually seem to enjoy the game Jee9 seems like the type of person hate play a game even though he’s long since stoped enjoying it.
give him a break, he plays eldenring pvp every day, you think anyone can be mentally stable from that kind of torture? And chats will always glaze the streamer, that's the #1 rule of chatting, shouldn't be surprised there. he and his chat are definitely not the sharpest tools in the shed, im not disagreeing with you but I'm pretty sure you exaggerated your experience cause getting banned means you can't read chat anymore so you have no way of knowing how much of chat was flaming you or for how long.
@@tasin2776
Two days ago.
EMERGENCY PATCH 1.12.3 LIVE COVERAGE.
Time Stamp: 2:01:45
Me: "I think casters need this lmao"
Jee: "I think you need to get banned, because you don't know what you're talking about."
Please partake in a Chlorox Cocktail, fanboy.
jeebanana vs reaction jund when
Using vanishing on my silly micolash cosplay and it works well maybe 2 times in 10 matches, most of the time I get hit out of it before it can fully go off or I cast it and it does nothing for me bc I just uselessly move 5 feet in a direction after incorrectly guessing my opponent is about to attack. And that’s really the crux of it; Miriam’s vanishing only works well if you’re a step ahead, you cant reaction cast like you would roll dodge bc even with the highest cast speed only collosals will miss you, any other weapon would catch you before you can teleport
Imo, miriam's vanishing should be buffed, by increasing the distance traveled but increasing its fp cost to 10-15 (it should still be slightly slower than running)
That way the spell would overall be strenger, but also less spammable, which is the dominant problem of elden ring in regards to magic or ashes of war
could make it chargable. sounds like that would satisfy
Miriam's vanishing grants mages a mixup tool they didn't have previously (exclusing spell animation canceling before that nerf/fix), and therefore, it will take people a while to get used to it. People being hyperbolic in regards to MV's power level is natural, considering how new and unexplored it is, no matter how wrong or right they may end up being.
On that note, however, I do agree that comparing it to pre-nerf bloodhound step is a massive reach. Not every new move with i-frames is the next meta-defining, pvp-ruining scrub magnet.
...maybe with the exception of blind spot.
a common scenario for people in the pvp scene is losing it when a patch changes thigns around or new ontent is added and overreacting to every little thingm, like everyone saying games was dead after patches 1.09/1.10, and then actually having the time of their life with the new poise system.(tbf some things were indeed broken in that patch, btut in a controlled enveirenmetn with bans and such it was fine)
now after people saw spread crossbow, blindspot and swift slash, everyone's jumping the gun looking for more and more broken stuff trying to get them patched before from forgets, causing however lots of false positives like this.
Scott I need you to complain about the carian sorcery sword. It feels terrible in PvE but has a niche in PvP. It got buffed but still feels like a downgrade instead of a sidegrade
I seriously can't figure out why someone would use it.
want weapon + staff? use both hands
want weapon staff and shield? shield-weapon + staff does it better
want weapon staff and seal? great beyond staff + weapon does it better
@@rod4309 I've extensively used it in pvp and pve. The weapon is straight terrible in PvE sadly. In PvP, it's very mid. Rather have a catalyst in left hand and have a real weapon in right. Though since it's light af 2.5 weight wtf. You'd probably be able to be a battle mage with like 100 poise and mid roll lol.
@@Subchesire Exactly! I was trying to find some sort of a reason someone might want to use it anyway but there are better alternatives to all of them! I guess weight miiiiight be a reason, but... I feel like the damage lost isn't worth it thrusting swords and staves are already pretty light, so you're probably not gaining much in armor for that trade.
g9 was probably evaluating it from the invasion 1v3 perspective
The smartest comment on this video
and even in that perspective its better to literally just alternate BHS and roll
@@scragglie you have brain damage
So weird to see when really good players get stuck on stupid with certain things. Happens more often with certain people- Inferno Plus and Oroboro are the big ones that come to mind. Peeve meanwhile remains the goat when it comes to thsi stuff.
What things are Inferno and Oroboros stuck on? I haven't been in the loop on their Elden Ring content recently
Oro is just an assclown. You can take him off this list since he is just a no talent bug abuser. Steel, Chase, Scott, Waifu, Lost, now those are fun people to watch since they enjoy the game and not just winning.
@@halcyon1644 Not really Elden Ring stuff as far as I'm aware but what I really mean is stuff from the past. Inferno used to swear that every weapon in DS3 that basically wasn't S tier or have niche uses. Most annoying one from him I saw was his video on the crow quills, which were actually an amazing pvp weapon in the right hands where he basically calls them trash that belongs in the dumpster. Oroboro was kind of the opposite in that he wouldn't recognize cheese for what it was. Most infamous example was him popularizing the Haveline in DS2, but my personal favorite was when he used the Dragon Slayer Swordspear to fight his own twitch viewers. Also used a buckler in a parrying challenge against Peeverson while he was using a medium shield during most of it and still won.
Haven’t played for a few days, still need to test if it combos into the funny madness grab
😁thinkin' how I'm thinkin' heh
Didn’t expect the jeemeat crossover
Totally agree dude this would be good if 1h weapons and casters didn't suck in competitive pvp. It's fine lol
Have you tried offhand Beast Claw yet? It has wild forward momentum and it allows you to immediately act out of an L1 with your mainhand weapon. Could allow for some really interesting combos, even some sick spell setups maybe. Doubt it's that useful in invasions but in the arena it could work.
If u chase someone using Miriam’s vanishing and u wanna hit them when I-frames end I suggest either using heavy attack or running, when I used light attack i got backstab attempt on air a lot of times
Scott, who would win first to 10 vs jeenine every time: "this dude is way more skilled than me it's not even close"
Unrelated to miriams: I found something interesting. The bridge that leads to the lever that lowers the water in the church district eats your projectile animations. Could be absolutely filthy for invasions as the the damage still happens but it makes your projectiles invisible. Can anyone else test this out?
I found this while using golden arcs.
I cannot... stand this guy... He is so good but holy christ, most toxic person and group of people on Twitch, and i mean that literally and with DBD in mind. They approach every group of pve players like they're an affront on their lives. To say any of these totally reasonable counterpoints would have been an easy ban (with experience). Thank you for saying literally anything on this. Jee can not have a discussion about anything with his chat around.
I know he's got plenty of game knowledge, but I cannot stand Jeenine's attitude. He's honestly kinda insufferable.
I've noticed the really hardcore pvp community for souls games is against anything that forces them to think of new approaches or think outside of the basics. You see the same thing for backstep s too. Both things are great for the game as they encourage different approaches and allow for more mixups.
Backstop s are absolutely broken I don’t know what you’re talking about
nahnah hold on
backstep s are cool and currently not banned in ladder BUT they can be genuinely broken due to a few very awkward interactions especially at latency, that latter part is why hardcore pvpers may not like backstep s but when ds2 had them, you're looking at the wrong people who are complaining.
@@iota-09 ds2 and elden ring backstep are different.
even if in ds2, the i-frames were attached to agility, it was somewhat balanced and you could still caught people.
the ds2 backsteps consumed more stamina and because the overall stamina consumption in every action it was not so spammeable.
you could not perform it while being staggered something that even elden ring allows, you can even punish follow ups of some weapons like shamshir or PSSS.
and finally in ds2 because it was an mechanic, you know that someone can pull it off in the middle of combat, meanwhile in elden ring there's not indication if someone has the talisman equipped besides the opponents behavior and the damage dealt, so it becomes a mind game inside the mind game.
I agree. I've noticed a lot of forced hate for the new additions to the game, granted some genuinely broken, but most aren't not broken really. They're strong options for someone's build and they're just upset that they have to think a tad bit harder to figure out a counter to someone's setup
@@WeeabooPocky tbf i've not had much of a chance to play around with the backstep in er much myself... and even less in ds2, i just know that pvpers love ds2 and that ds2 had i-frames on backstep.
The most broken iFrames I've tested so far is the first L2 on Obsidian Lamina. That thing is a monster if you use it right.
its just worse than dynast's finesse
eww jeenine...
I didn't know miriam's was actually a decent spell lol, looked terrible
What’s wrong with Jeenine? Said people shouldn’t play an online p2p video game on bad internet?
@@PrattlingPate_ more like Jeewhine
@@PrattlingPate_ he hates poor people
@@Angels-Haven He hates people with bad internet. Souls games rely on peer-to-peer connections, so having bad internet is comparable to cheating. I dont see how that complaint is so bad when the guy deals with century link users all day.
@@PrattlingPate_ it's a non competitive mostly single player game, nobody cares about his complaints, and you are obviously a fan boy
I'm not very surprised by his take on this, And I entirely agree with Scott here. I won't deny for a second that Jeenine is one of the best souls players out there, but I've been to some of his streams and I've heard some of his takes, and they can sometimes be somewhat biased and hypocritical. He absolutely knows the ins and outs of PvP, I just hope not too many people take what he says as gospel just because of that.
algoroli algoroli give this man the viewiolis
i'm not even surprised to see jee still using the lance
g9 wants the spell banned because it makes it harder to dismantle ganks.
I think some streamers are just creating outrage to get attention. I used the spell, it's only good on high latency, and I still would rather have bloodhound's step then.
Now im motivated
Need to remember that Elden Ring has vastly more players than the Souls series combined.
Roll catching is still being learned by the new PvP players.
It's not OP, but the new players don't know the full tactics of PvP yet
They genuinely did pure int dirty
There's no pure int weapon unlike both arcane or faith
You need staves to use spells which are gonna weigh more
Beloved stardust becomes useless because of its huge dmg absorption reduction(though this is a caster thing)
There's literally no pure int dmg spells except the finger ones(the moon id say is literally the worst spell in the game)
I donna i feel like im ranting a bit
And this is all just my current opinion so... U know
Anyways super happy to see someone defend int
Like, its mostly memes and jokes but literally everyone hates on sorcerers in the whole soulsborne franchise
glinstone nails are decent as a harass tool as they they linger due to how their tracking works and are fp efficient
gravitational missile is just straight up good - great at zoning and can be free aimed on the ground or nearby surfaces to explode, and sends people flying which gives more opportunity for wakeup punishes. Also pairs well with waves of darkness, the best zoning AoW in the game that benefits the most from int
Fleeting microcosm is decent albeit situational
I agree that I would've liked to have gotten more int stuff but it's not like int recieved nothing good.
This is a lot harder to fight against with KB&M and low DPI. I'm at 400-500 DPI and since you lose lock on it's very hard to turn camera around fast enough. I guess maybe storm stomp might help. A lot of things are hard to do though at low dpi, like rolling in to backstabs. I wish i would've started ER with a controller.
WIZARD VS KNIGHT
Thanks!!! I'll was saying that Miriam is not OP in his videos
Imagine he would listen to also to the people who disagree with his takes, but he rather bans them on stream if you disagree with him. Either you say the same as Jee or you get banned and annoyed in chat by small Jees. He is a skilled player but he also has to be open-minded when it comes to some form of critic or disagreement.
Scott is the Gandalf of mage invading so I trust his opinion on this one.
Everyone hating on casters. We are simultaneously the most broken, and unplayable thing in the Souls games according to most apparently?
And str builds are weak and really hard to play. Two of the biggest souls tall tales
@@buckyhurdle4776 Amen
Not everyone. But it is a bit ridiculous. Playing invasions with sorcery only is quite tricky, and you really need to find openings. Ironically, magic really requires some...intelligence...to make work. Especially with so many people packing op fast melee moves, incantations that outspeed casters by far, and generally just do everything so as getting even a simple spell off to be really tricky. Not to mention how easy most spells are to dodge. I think the disdain many people have comes from when they didn't yet learn to dodge many spells - then they probably got dunked on and hard by clever uses of spells. Plus, using ranged attacks VS someone who only does melee...but the melee only players are restricting themselves there with no ranged combat options.
@@buckyhurdle4776 Hahahahahahahah IKR? Strength is so op that it took me only 3 attempts to beat the final boss of the DLC (still trying not to spoil it) without knowing anything going in. Level 150 with mimic ashes (Yes is OP) and with PS Rusty Anchors (cragblade AOW). Fireknight greatsword was a struggle with him then after switching to anchors it was super easy. I had to face tank many of the dumbass stuff but still was not hard with the correct build. I don't know if I will be able to do it as a solo magician though but that is coming soon.
There’s this trend now of calling every single thing broken smh.
I've tried to like this spell.
The best it got was
1: Utilizing it with back hand blades ash of war.
(It's still meh)
2: bosses that instantly jump at you in the beginning of battles
(Still meh)
Just looks cool but viability wise, it's weird.
Jeewhine just wants to nerf everything that he loses to.
*swift slash enters chat*
Would be impressive if people used this to get backstabs on people, then tell them "nothing personel, kid"
We want a seal that can cast spells
I've caught people trying to use this in PvP, and always gets caught and dies immediately.
Tooth whip when
The dunning kruger effect was based on jeenine
I saw his video of him using the I-frames on that + the I-frame backstep talisman to troll dudes for 10 minutes while they barely hit him.
I just thought to myself "Man, you're spending all this FP and wasting all this time to not even do anything to them, this is hard countered by them turning a corner or hiding behind a wall instead of chasing". Maybe that doesn't apply in duels where there aren't any walls, and yes it does make catching kiting players even more annoying, but it can't be broken if it costs you resources while not actually advancing your win (BHS was so fast that people could use it to outpace standard movement and then get a quick ranged hit in and even that wasn't actually broken, it was just insanely annoying).
It IS degen as hell because it makes stalling and playing reactively even more powerful and that's just not fun because a game state where neither player is incentivized to actually attack is AWFUL (which happens a lot in high level Souls PVP), but that's not the argument I've seen.
I thought Scott Jund was Oroboro
It just resets neutral for free and it breaks lock on seems like
Jeenine: "Miriams is broken and the only people who should be allowed to play Elden Ring are fiber internet subscribers."
Honestly? It’s fine. At most it might get a couple I-frames taken off so there’s a couple of more vulnerable frames.
By a couple I mean like 3-4.
G9 gets a lot of things wrong or rather he holds his own opinions and preferences to a sky high regard.
He's very good at pvp and has crazy reflexes but I find it difficult to watch him with audio because he doesn't take losing very well. He doesn't yell or hurl insults he just refuses to believe in chance or being genuinely (if rarely) outplayed.
I believe his quick reflexes and high ego translates into making videos like that one saying the vanish is OP
This is about move in a game not a person lol, have some decency. Internet dweebs go crazy
what does this have to do with the point of the video
Weird
@@ScottJundA-men
@@ScottJund You already made the points I would have said about the spell itself in the video, so I shared my thoughts on JeeNine's content instead
Let the INT bros have some s so they can cook too 🍳🤓
You know, I think you've brought me around on this, as I did have some initial concerns when looking at the spell's frame data.
Miriam's vanishing does have one little quirk that still bugs me: the teleport will still go off even if you get interrupted partway through the startup.
ive actually noticed when i get interupted during casting the vanishing effect will play but i still end up going nowhere
have you played fighting games mr jund i think you would like them
He has the same opinion on the backstep talisman. Making a 10 minute of only backstepping and never attacking and calling it broken.
The problem with the back step talisman is that you can cancel the recovery early under some circumstances & become unpunishable on reaction.
the bow cancel backstep thing is actually pretty broken though, ACTUAL infinite s
@@ScottJund damn, for the bow I was unawares. I just know that with other weapons the s are still limited.
@@amen123abcd they can still be somewhat infinite on latency if you're fatrolling iirc, but regualr backstep on medium weight with a regular weapon is fine if not even weak
The backstep tali IS broken tho, unlike MV
Couldn’t you counter this with any delayed spell? Flame snake, that one turret incantation, carian phalanx
So much pvp sweat in chat, works great for the algorithm.
THANK YOU!
This is exactly what I've been saying about Miriam's Vanishing on his upload but this is put out much much more eloquently.
MV is a really FUN spell when it works, but it is far from OP with how Jee put it.
I just think Jee's hot-take on MV to be quite wild, so I'm actually looking forward to the PvP montage using MV that he told me he would do.
Magic is at its best when a new spell isn't just another remix of Soul Arrow. I really don't want to see Miriam's Vanishing get nerfed because its a fun spell that was added.
I think it's just that he hasn't played around with it much. I can't wait for when Jee tests it again. On paper, it does look like something that is broken, but it's really not
I need to see someone use this effectively. I haven't seen it yet. I don't think this is op but I could see it be op if a host can perma spam it while phantoms gank you. Has yet to happen for me.
Miriam's not really broken, it's sort of just a scuffed 50/50 move that you use to mask your next cast. For example miriam's vanishing into someone with gavel of haima followup is solid if they don't expect it, but people who know about that and see a mage teleporting into them will immediately expect that and dodge/punish. I believe miriam's also has like >20 frames of startup so it's not really going to be usable vs an aggressive player who is using a quick punish