thanks man! i usually pull apart quite a few tools but i didnt post them because i didnt know what kind of interest there was. people seem to like it so ill definitely continue
do you have any idea on how the battery works with regards using it on an 18v/20v max tool. u say its essentially 3 2.0 ah batteries does that mean itll last 3 times longer than an 18v 2.0 ah battery when used in an 18v tool?
ok ty, next question.lets say hypothetically dewalt already makes a 20v 6.0ah battery. would this flexvolt battery last 3 times longer than that too becaus eit only accesses 1/3 of the cells at any one time. what i mean is if in 20v mode it only accesses 1/3rd of the available power then surely it shoudl last 3 times longer than a standard 6.0 did i make sense at all?
MR.Steviegall, no it will last about the same time. This pack is configurable as either a 20v 6ah OR a 60V 2ah pack (the tool tells the battery what voltage to supply).
That’s a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) with conformal coating. A “chip” is a packaged component that goes onto the PCB. There are likely several chips under that coating.
Thanks for the teardown. I don't think the main purpose of the spring loaded slider is to disconnect the output voltage. Instead I think it switches between 20 Vmax (18 Vnominal) and 60 Vmax (54 Vnominal), so the switch itself puts the cells in 1p15s or 3p5s. So I think all 60 V tools will have similar taps to switch the output voltage from 20 Vmax to 60 Vmax. And 20 Vmax tools wont have the taps, so it's still backwards compatible with existing 20 Vmax tools. It could be a 3 position switch with an off position too, or it could just be a 2 position switch that switches between 20V and 60V. You can easily test this by connecting a voltmeter between the two output voltage terminals and measure if the voltage changes with the slider switch in different positions. You can still measure this after putting the battery back together.
I found out from a horrible experience of getting my battery wet that that is actually a reset that makes your battery work again if you accidentally get it wet just make sure you dry it out right away.
As per this DeWalt battery shipping PDF (service.dewalt.com.au//uploads/May%202017%20-%20XR%20FLEXVOLT%20Battery%20Shipping%20Website%20Copy-%20UK%209%200Ah%20update.pdf) it changes it between 54V mode (or “60V” in US) to 18V mode (or “20V” in US) and this is obviously how the existing tools work with the 18V/20V mode whilst also being a way for a battery to technically figure it’s Wh capacity into one-third to get around transport restrictions.
I can confirm the slider does exactly that, with 3 positions: extended: 5 series 3 parallel, for 18V, half pressed: 5 series 1 parallel x3, disconnected from each other, for shipping, fully pressed: 15 series 1 parallel, for 54V. The two thick red and black wires you see appear in series with this and may require shorting before 54V appears at the main terminals. I didn't look further into this though. I tore down a dead battery in the name of science. There appears to be no protective disconnect circuitry onboard so use extreme caution if experimenting - this battery would be violently powerful. The switch mechanism and sliding contacts are under the black cover in front of the PCB.
From elsewhere, the way to switch from 20V (parallel) operation to 60V (series) operation is: 1) Push the physical switch "in" (just like the shipping cap does), and 2) Connect C1 and C3 terminals on the battery. Reverse order to disengage. **NOTE:** If you connect C1 and C3 with the body switch _disengaged,_ you instantly brick the battery! hackaday.io/project/45999/gallery#44d2be71db9d189fea8f395f25de8e3a
Good video but would’ve liked to have seen a complete tear down. Nothing wrong with keeping it useable for yourself but the title got me exciting for you to get into much more detail/full disassemble the battery.
I realize this is almost a year later, but the 60V max tools themselves have 5 connectors instead of 2-3 that the 20vMAX have. So the tools are physically set up to run series and work in concert with the chip. A standard 20vMax battery wont fit on a 60Vmax flexvolt device to prevent damage to the cell.
Very interesting video. Thanks. Since there are a lot of wires, looks like 60V mode charges all the cells in series, since there are cell balancing wires for every single cell. And the top circuit that covered in epoxy(?) looks like additional cell balancing and control circuit. For other 20V batteries, there are 5 cells max in series, so balancing could be done from the charger, but with 15 cells in series, it won't be possible to do that (unless the battery has more than 16 connectors). I don't know much about it, but maybe charging as 60V 15S mode is faster than 5S3P mode? Anyway, I see huge potential from this battery. Being able to use the same battery for the outdoor tools as well would be really awesome. I really couldn't afford other cordless outdoor tools just because of the battery prices. Usually, they are too expensive to use for just one or two tools. But if I can use the same battery on other power tools, that's not a problem anymore. Anyway, I ordered recip saw kit that comes with 2 flexvolt batteries, and waiting it to be shipped. I really cannot wait to test it.
hey no problem! I think you are right on the top circuit board. There has to be cell management within that board. I need to do an update video, the switch on top actually does flip between 20v and 60v, I wasnt pushing the bars in deep enough. The packs have been performing well. Im impressed with all their tools and I agree the potential to use the same high voltage battery pack on outdoor power tools is a huge advantage.
the 9.0 was from what I have read designed from the ground up as a 9 amp 18v battery which if measured as as Dewalt is 20.8v and it takes two of these 60v batteries to run their saws so it will be interesting to see a head to head with the fuel mitre saw and the Dewalt Dewalt s 60v 6amp against Milwaukee's 108v 9 amp sorry 18v
i actually have both saws you mentioned with me right now. the milwaukee has a better runtime but the dewalt is more powerful without question. depends on what you need
All we really need to know is - This battery pack is BADASS! Do you find the weight of the battery to much in the Drill and Impact driver? I ask because I really like the balance of the 20v MAX battery pack when using the hammer drill and impact driver. This battery pack would be awesome in the flashlight though, probably run for days.
Mine packed in within a year, still waiting for it to come back from DeWalt... Seems the extra technology complicates things as mine would work in a non flex volt tool but not in a flex volt one one day when I got it out to use, also the final charge indicator light was not lit even when charger told it was full. Disappointed, certainly puts me off buying more of them. (DeWalt have had it two weeks now).
Yes, because it was within a year the DeWalt service centre replaced it free of charge, but informed of it would of happened outside of a year they would not have done, doesn't give you great confidence but I've not had any other problems to date, and I'm happy with the performance of the tools although using batteries in flex volt mode does cut you run time down to a third remember that.
Wondering if that disconnect has something to do with the voltage setting, it may be in disconnect mode with the protective cover on but wondering if a 60v power tool fully engages it to 60v?
The bar with springs is most likely just an eject spring with no electric connection. Many brands of slide on battery packs have them. It's possible that it's a switch, but more tools these days have electronic communication between components to synchronize them. Lithium batteries have to be carefully monitored to protect from damage and excessive heat. It can also be used to select appropriate voltage selection.
No I mean the other side. If you watch the video he calls the switch a disconnect switch, it's the bit that the red cover engages (nothing to do with the yellow button) but it actually more than just that. If you look at the 60v tools they have an extra bit of plastic at the bottom which engages the switch so I'm pretty sure what I said is correct. It is a mechanical switch between 60v and 20v.
Brett Yes, I was referring too the black internal bar with springs. Notice I typed "It's possible that it's a switch," in the previous comment. It is one of multiple ways that the tool could select between 20 and 60 volts. Another way could be that the outermost connectors could be one set of cells, and the middle and next connector could be another set, ect.. that can loop through the wiring of the tool according to how the tool is wired to select the correct voltage. Another way would be through the circuit board electronics which would switch between series and parallel circuits to match the tools voltage setup. If it is a switch, it serves 2 purposes. One being to select for voltage, and the other being to push the battery pack off of the tool, so you don't have to pull along with squeezing the release button. If it's not a switch, it pushes the pack off upon squeezing the latch release, so you don't Have to pull it out of the electrical connectors. Some battery connectors hold quite tightly, so it takes quite a bit of force to get them apart. I've seen those push bars in single voltage packs just to make it easier to remove the pack from the tool.
I did think about the series option as I have seen laptop batteries use this method but there are only 5 terminals and there should be six for that method. It would be awesome if someone who has this battery could do some testing with a multiple meter with the bar pushed in.
The bar isn't really a disconnect. It simply tells the board rather the tool is a 20v or 60v. I believe the default is 20v and then a 60v tool has the pieces that push that bar in to change the battery into the 60v.
i tried to depress the switch and it went from 18v to zero. i still cant figure out how it actually switches to 60v. (54v nominal) ill make an update video
it's odd that in the uk these batteries are labeled 54v/18v which is the nominal voltage of 18650 cells, in america they quote the max voltage of the cells which is 60v/20v.either way they are still shit 54v with a capacity of 2Ah won't last 10 minutes on a chop saw or a angle grinder
At 20v it delivers the rated 6Ah exactly as the label indicates but it only delivers 2Ah at 60v so what that this mean? well think of it this way you have 6 gallons if you pull 20v and only 2 gallons at 60v that what it means
An Ah is a unit of energy. A 6Ah 20v battery holds the same energy as 6Ah 60v battery. I did some googling. The battery contains 3 2Ah packs. 3 x 2 = 6Ah. The sliding bar switch mentioned in the video changes how the packs are wired. In parallel they are 20v but have 3 x times the current as one pack. In series it's 3 x 20v = 60v but the current is the same as just one pack. Either way the total power output is the same and so is the total energy. (6ah) toolguyd.com/dewalt-flexvolt-answers/
Yes, what you said in your second paragraph is correct, but in the first paragraph you said a 6ah 20v battery holds the same energy as a 6ah 60v which is incorrect. A 6ah 20v has the same as a 2ah 60v or a 6ah 60v has three times that of a 6ah 20v. v x ah = energy. 60v needs 3x as many cells which is why you end up with 1/3 of the ah. Ah is energy at a given voltage but if the voltage is different that that is a different comparison. Just like wattage in ac is v x a. Watts if your ultimate power or energy. Proof is that the dewalt packs are 20v 6ah, or if used at 60v are 2 ah. Same pack and same cells. How could it have any different energy stored? So if you had a 60v, 6ah, that would have to be 3x as much. The dewalt pack takes the extra sets of 2ah cells and rather than put them in parallel them for more ah as a 6ah does, it puts them in series instead for more voltage, now losing them for more ah.
+Ari P Oops, my bad. You are of course correct. E = V x A x T. In my head I was thinking Watt Hours when the units are Amp Hours. I stand corrected, thank you.
whichever way you slice it the pack is a 120Wh 20v x 6Ah = 120Wh 60v x 2Ah = 120Wh The battery can switch between use cases for different motor types is all.
2:03 Each cell is 2.0 Ah, this means it can't be 25R Samsung cells (2.5 Ah). So if it Samsung cells it will either be INR18650-20Q or INR18650-20R: www.samsungsdi.com/lithium-ion-battery/power-devices/power-tool.html If they used 25R cells, it would become a 7.5 Ah battery. DeWalt are however soon coming out with a 9.0 Ah FlexVolt battery: flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us/products Comparing pictures, it has the same physical size as the 6.0 Ah battery which means the 9.0 Ah battery will contain 15 * 3.0 Ah cells. So if these are Samsung cells too it will be INR18650-30Q cells or INR18650-30R if they exists. INR18650-30Q is not listed on Samsung SDI's website yet, but they have been available on the market for a long time now and you can find a datasheet too with Google. Not sure f INR18650-30R exists (yet?) though.
does anyone know if the 60 v is compatible with dewalt cordless drills that come with 12v batteries? It looks like the same clip as the 20 v and 60 v but i just wanna know if its worth cheaping out a few bucks or just wait to get the 20 v
According to the Dewalt site: flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us. The battery pack is compatible with 20V, 60V, and 120V tools. The battery may physically fit the 12V tool, but it will most likely burn up the motor windings as the battery doesn't step down voltage below 20V...although it would have been nice if Dewalt would have incorporated the 12V in the battery design.
Thank you for posting. Please be careful poking around inside this battery. 60 volts is dangerous, and with the currents these cells deliver - very easily fatal... I suspect they have some mosfets on the rear of the logic board disconnecting series-mode if battery not connected to a tool which has identified itself. Otherwise this battery would pose a hazard...
trophix not quite soldered, the cells are spot welded so you have to yank off the bars and find new solder on ones. You also have to move all the balancing wires
Toolaholic of course you have to remove the welding... that's part of any battery pack. If you have to replace a cell just have a couple of nickel plates on hand to replace them. Also the balancing wires just solder them back together.
Btw. RUclips is a much better platform for reviews than Instagram. Much easier to search for the right video and I think you will get a lot more views here. I have wathced tons of reviews on RUclips but never looked for reviews at Insta and haven't seen any of yours either before seeing this video. RUclips's search function is much better than Instagram. The comment function on RUclips is also much nicer than on Insta and you can edit typos etc. after posting. The Insta comment function is terrible and you can only see a few words at a time when typing, just terrible for longer comments. RUclips videos can also be embedded into forums, Twitter and other websites. Unlike Insta pictures/videos that can't be embedded in other websites. At RUclips you can also get notified when someone replies to your comment, unlike at Insta. Despite it's huge success, Insta is really a poor platform. There's things that could be better at RUclips too, but it's the lesser of two evils and where most other reviews can be found. :-)
Uhg. I pretty much said that such a battery is a disaster waiting to happen. You can have a 18-20v tool with a high torque motor that can give you plenty of performance and rival or beat corded tools. Dewalt could have made capable tools with their 20v max line (which is the same battery as the 18v systems) line rather than trying to go for the 60v gimmic and sacrifice design. Milwaukee has more than equivalent performance in their m18 line. Then with more amp hours you get the run time. Understand that at 60v the dewalt battery only has 2 ah. By trying to have both a 20v and 60v battery that changes means you have switching components that are only a failure waiting to happen, particularly since a cordless tool battery operates at such high current levels. Such switching components take up lots of space, can heat up, and can have issues with handling such currents reliably. Not to mention, now that I see the inside, that dewalt has resorted to using such small wires running all over and over top of metal traces. Most packs uses metal traces in a more clean pattern that can handle higher currents and load than what these gauge wires can handle. A good example is milwaukee m18 9.0 pack which is a 9 amp hour pack with heavy traces, breath-ability, and more capacity than this dewalt pack which at 20v (18v) is a 6 amp hour pack rather than the new milwaukees 9ah. I think this whole system and battery design is a disaster waiting to happen and a big mistake. Another example of poor thinking in dewalts tool line up is their big heavy stud drill which is equivalent to the super hawg, which is not a design that will work as well in tight spaces. Dewalts design is more like the original corded hawg from before which milwaukee improved upon. For an electrican or someone drilling small auger holes, milwaukee has the regular hawg which is lighter and more manageable than lugging around the super hawg or the dewalt stud drill. Appropriate drill and size for the job that it is needed.
I really want one of these to test. I believe that the small wires are BMS only. I'm pretty sure that the switch that the red bit engages (what he called a disconnect switch) is also a mechanical switch that changes it over to 60v, if you look at the bottom of 60v tools they have an extra bit of plastic that engages it. But I agree that yes it is another point of failure and if it is indeed mechanical there would be contacts that could be worn out, I would hate to imagine the internal arcing in the battery that would occur if someone remove it with the tool going.
Seems like pure conjecture to me, though you're right that a switch could fail. Whether this is really going to be an issue remains to be determined, but I think this is a great idea. I have a boatload of 20V Max tools, and these being compatible with them is awesome. 60V tools will be more powerful by design since this battery can supply so much power. I don't think a higher capacity 18V battery is a good idea because high current/low voltage devices are less efficient. If this was a good idea, other manufacturers would have come up with it already. I think this system is going to be a huge success for Dewalt. Time will tell if it's reliable. It's already been shown that their 60V max tools are very high performance.
Ari P Yeah but a 60v 2amp hour battery with run longer then your milwaukee 5amp battery 60 v tools run more efficiently then 18v tools you have to use much heavier wireing to try equal 60v power you sound like a crybaby milwaukee fanboy
mateollios 67 yes ive watched his video. he couldnt seem to figure out how to remove the shipping cap. note the date on mine. i was one of the first people with the flexvolt battery. now i know all about the internal chemistry. its fairly simple
if your going to go as far as make a RUclips video plz don't waste people's time guessing at something you aren't willing to take apart. 5 min of my life I won't get back
Jeremy Christensen not sure if you realized the age of this video, but i was one of the first people with a flexvolt battery. at the time i could not risk damaging the pack by taking it apart.
I love this idea. Pulling apart tools and showing us how they are actually built!
thanks man! i usually pull apart quite a few tools but i didnt post them because i didnt know what kind of interest there was. people seem to like it so ill definitely continue
do you have any idea on how the battery works with regards using it on an 18v/20v max tool. u say its essentially 3 2.0 ah batteries does that mean itll last 3 times longer than an 18v 2.0 ah battery when used in an 18v tool?
+MrSteviegall yes that is exactly correct. in 20v mode its a 6ah battery pack. so 3 times the runtime of a 2.0
ok ty, next question.lets say hypothetically dewalt already makes a 20v 6.0ah battery. would this flexvolt battery last 3 times longer than that too becaus eit only accesses 1/3 of the cells at any one time. what i mean is if in 20v mode it only accesses 1/3rd of the available power then surely it shoudl last 3 times longer than a standard 6.0
did i make sense at all?
MR.Steviegall, no it will last about the same time. This pack is configurable as either a 20v 6ah OR a 60V 2ah pack (the tool tells the battery what voltage to supply).
That’s a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) with conformal coating. A “chip” is a packaged component that goes onto the PCB. There are likely several chips under that coating.
It's about time you started a RUclips channel! Great post. I'm looking forward to watching more videos.
Thanks for the teardown.
I don't think the main purpose of the spring loaded slider is to disconnect the output voltage. Instead I think it switches between 20 Vmax (18 Vnominal) and 60 Vmax (54 Vnominal), so the switch itself puts the cells in 1p15s or 3p5s. So I think all 60 V tools will have similar taps to switch the output voltage from 20 Vmax to 60 Vmax. And 20 Vmax tools wont have the taps, so it's still backwards compatible with existing 20 Vmax tools. It could be a 3 position switch with an off position too, or it could just be a 2 position switch that switches between 20V and 60V.
You can easily test this by connecting a voltmeter between the two output voltage terminals and measure if the voltage changes with the slider switch in different positions. You can still measure this after putting the battery back together.
that makes total sense, that's a neat trick. 1p15s for 60v and 3p5s for 20v, wonder how it charges? in 3p5s mode?
Would be cool to know, but it should be easy to measure, just put the probes on the contacts and push the switch. But sadly i don't have one :[
I found out from a horrible experience of getting my battery wet that that is actually a reset that makes your battery work again if you accidentally get it wet just make sure you dry it out right away.
As per this DeWalt battery shipping PDF (service.dewalt.com.au//uploads/May%202017%20-%20XR%20FLEXVOLT%20Battery%20Shipping%20Website%20Copy-%20UK%209%200Ah%20update.pdf) it changes it between 54V mode (or “60V” in US) to 18V mode (or “20V” in US) and this is obviously how the existing tools work with the 18V/20V mode whilst also being a way for a battery to technically figure it’s Wh capacity into one-third to get around transport restrictions.
I can confirm the slider does exactly that, with 3 positions:
extended: 5 series 3 parallel, for 18V,
half pressed: 5 series 1 parallel x3, disconnected from each other, for shipping,
fully pressed: 15 series 1 parallel, for 54V. The two thick red and black wires you see appear in series with this and may require shorting before 54V appears at the main terminals. I didn't look further into this though. I tore down a dead battery in the name of science. There appears to be no protective disconnect circuitry onboard so use extreme caution if experimenting - this battery would be violently powerful.
The switch mechanism and sliding contacts are under the black cover in front of the PCB.
At the beginning you mention the drawings from when the battery was released. Where are these?
Thanks
Great video Kiefer! and yes we want to see more tools from inside out lol
See ya
I honestly like the way you review tools in detail.
From elsewhere, the way to switch from 20V (parallel) operation to 60V (series) operation is:
1) Push the physical switch "in" (just like the shipping cap does), and 2) Connect C1 and C3 terminals on the battery.
Reverse order to disengage. **NOTE:** If you connect C1 and C3 with the body switch _disengaged,_ you instantly brick the battery!
hackaday.io/project/45999/gallery#44d2be71db9d189fea8f395f25de8e3a
You're welcome.
good video. want to see more dewalt tools as well as a torture test of a 887.
Good video but would’ve liked to have seen a complete tear down. Nothing wrong with keeping it useable for yourself but the title got me exciting for you to get into much more detail/full disassemble the battery.
I realize this is almost a year later, but the 60V max tools themselves have 5 connectors instead of 2-3 that the 20vMAX have. So the tools are physically set up to run series and work in concert with the chip. A standard 20vMax battery wont fit on a 60Vmax flexvolt device to prevent damage to the cell.
Very interesting video. Thanks.
Since there are a lot of wires, looks like 60V mode charges all the cells in series, since there are cell balancing wires for every single cell.
And the top circuit that covered in epoxy(?) looks like additional cell balancing and control circuit.
For other 20V batteries, there are 5 cells max in series, so balancing could be done from the charger, but with 15 cells in series, it won't be possible to do that (unless the battery has more than 16 connectors). I don't know much about it, but maybe charging as 60V 15S mode is faster than 5S3P mode?
Anyway, I see huge potential from this battery.
Being able to use the same battery for the outdoor tools as well would be really awesome.
I really couldn't afford other cordless outdoor tools just because of the battery prices. Usually, they are too expensive to use for just one or two tools.
But if I can use the same battery on other power tools, that's not a problem anymore.
Anyway, I ordered recip saw kit that comes with 2 flexvolt batteries, and waiting it to be shipped. I really cannot wait to test it.
hey no problem! I think you are right on the top circuit board. There has to be cell management within that board. I need to do an update video, the switch on top actually does flip between 20v and 60v, I wasnt pushing the bars in deep enough. The packs have been performing well. Im impressed with all their tools and I agree the potential to use the same high voltage battery pack on outdoor power tools is a huge advantage.
+Toolaholic so that does actually put out 60v when the button is pressed? must be a "switching" power supply within...
+Toolaholic and the white stuff over the wires is called silastic. it's found in all kinds of electronics.
"looks like 60V mode charges all the cells in series"
Output mode has absolutely nothing to do with how the batteries are charged.
This is awesome. Keep making videos!
i love this battery, the power is amazing
Good video. Thx for sharing.
Thanks for the video @toolaholic very interesting on Dewalts design of their 60v battery. Good job on your video Kiefer. #tiacrew
Hi,
I wanted to know how much (wh) is on this battery when the cap in on. Also can these be mailed or able to go on airplanes in luggage?
Great video mate, thanks for sharing! Just subscribed!!
the 9.0 was from what I have read designed from the ground up as a 9 amp 18v battery which if measured as as Dewalt is 20.8v and it takes two of these 60v batteries to run their saws so it will be interesting to see a head to head with the fuel mitre saw and the Dewalt Dewalt s 60v 6amp against Milwaukee's 108v 9 amp sorry 18v
i actually have both saws you mentioned with me right now. the milwaukee has a better runtime but the dewalt is more powerful without question. depends on what you need
I would rather have power. Isn't it a given that the more powerful device wouldn't last as long?
Do a teardown video about the porter cable cordless nailer.
All we really need to know is - This battery pack is BADASS! Do you find the weight of the battery to much in the Drill and Impact driver? I ask because I really like the balance of the 20v MAX battery pack when using the hammer drill and impact driver. This battery pack would be awesome in the flashlight though, probably run for days.
do a teardown video about the ridgid hyper drive cordless nailer
These use 18650? I could have sworn there were 21700's up in there
The red and black is the input voltage. Other connector are different voltage
Mine packed in within a year, still waiting for it to come back from DeWalt... Seems the extra technology complicates things as mine would work in a non flex volt tool but not in a flex volt one one day when I got it out to use, also the final charge indicator light was not lit even when charger told it was full. Disappointed, certainly puts me off buying more of them. (DeWalt have had it two weeks now).
Hey same thing happened to one of my batteries today what did you do ? Did u ever got it fixed ?
Did they repair it
Yes, because it was within a year the DeWalt service centre replaced it free of charge, but informed of it would of happened outside of a year they would not have done, doesn't give you great confidence but I've not had any other problems to date, and I'm happy with the performance of the tools although using batteries in flex volt mode does cut you run time down to a third remember that.
Cool video
Can I charge this version of 20V (MAX I guess) with DCB118QW? (The charger that shows 18V on it)
Wondering if that disconnect has something to do with the voltage setting, it may be in disconnect mode with the protective cover on but wondering if a 60v power tool fully engages it to 60v?
The bar with springs is most likely just an eject spring with no electric connection. Many brands of slide on battery packs have them. It's possible that it's a switch, but more tools these days have electronic communication between components to synchronize them. Lithium batteries have to be carefully monitored to protect from damage and excessive heat. It can also be used to select appropriate voltage selection.
No I mean the other side. If you watch the video he calls the switch a disconnect switch, it's the bit that the red cover engages (nothing to do with the yellow button) but it actually more than just that. If you look at the 60v tools they have an extra bit of plastic at the bottom which engages the switch so I'm pretty sure what I said is correct. It is a mechanical switch between 60v and 20v.
Brett
Yes, I was referring too the black internal bar with springs. Notice I typed "It's possible that it's a switch," in the previous comment. It is one of multiple ways that the tool could select between 20 and 60 volts. Another way could be that the outermost connectors could be one set of cells, and the middle and next connector could be another set, ect.. that can loop through the wiring of the tool according to how the tool is wired to select the correct voltage. Another way would be through the circuit board electronics which would switch between series and parallel circuits to match the tools voltage setup. If it is a switch, it serves 2 purposes. One being to select for voltage, and the other being to push the battery pack off of the tool, so you don't have to pull along with squeezing the release button. If it's not a switch, it pushes the pack off upon squeezing the latch release, so you don't Have to pull it out of the electrical connectors. Some battery connectors hold quite tightly, so it takes quite a bit of force to get them apart.
I've seen those push bars in single voltage packs just to make it easier to remove the pack from the tool.
I did think about the series option as I have seen laptop batteries use this method but there are only 5 terminals and there should be six for that method. It would be awesome if someone who has this battery could do some testing with a multiple meter with the bar pushed in.
The bar isn't really a disconnect. It simply tells the board rather the tool is a 20v or 60v. I believe the default is 20v and then a 60v tool has the pieces that push that bar in to change the battery into the 60v.
I'd be interested in seeing some voltage readings. With and without the transport be depressed.
i tried to depress the switch and it went from 18v to zero. i still cant figure out how it actually switches to 60v. (54v nominal) ill make an update video
+Toolaholic Interesting. Send it to AVE. HE'll figure it out. Lol
+Ricky Mcgrath lol I can figure it out but not without trashing the battery. still need to be able to use it for reviews
it's odd that in the uk these batteries are labeled 54v/18v which is the nominal voltage of 18650 cells, in america they quote the max voltage of the cells which is 60v/20v.either way they are still shit 54v with a capacity of 2Ah won't last 10 minutes on a chop saw or a angle grinder
There is no alternative other than being corded. I'm glad this is even available. In time there will be higher capacity batteries.
That bar isn't a disconnect. It just tells the board rather the tool you put it on is a 20v or 60v.
SouthernGuy8503 i found out later it was a switch. this was a long time ago when I first got the battery. thanks!
At 20v it delivers the rated 6Ah exactly as the label indicates but it only delivers 2Ah at 60v so what that this mean? well think of it this way you have 6 gallons if you pull 20v and only 2 gallons at 60v that what it means
An Ah is a unit of energy. A 6Ah 20v battery holds the same energy as 6Ah 60v battery.
I did some googling. The battery contains 3 2Ah packs. 3 x 2 = 6Ah. The sliding bar switch mentioned in the video changes how the packs are wired. In parallel they are 20v but have 3 x times the current as one pack. In series it's 3 x 20v = 60v but the current is the same as just one pack. Either way the total power output is the same and so is the total energy. (6ah)
toolguyd.com/dewalt-flexvolt-answers/
Yes, what you said in your second paragraph is correct, but in the first paragraph you said a 6ah 20v battery holds the same energy as a 6ah 60v which is incorrect. A 6ah 20v has the same as a 2ah 60v or a 6ah 60v has three times that of a 6ah 20v. v x ah = energy. 60v needs 3x as many cells which is why you end up with 1/3 of the ah. Ah is energy at a given voltage but if the voltage is different that that is a different comparison. Just like wattage in ac is v x a. Watts if your ultimate power or energy. Proof is that the dewalt packs are 20v 6ah, or if used at 60v are 2 ah. Same pack and same cells. How could it have any different energy stored? So if you had a 60v, 6ah, that would have to be 3x as much. The dewalt pack takes the extra sets of 2ah cells and rather than put them in parallel them for more ah as a 6ah does, it puts them in series instead for more voltage, now losing them for more ah.
+Ari P Oops, my bad. You are of course correct. E = V x A x T. In my head I was thinking Watt Hours when the units are Amp Hours. I stand corrected, thank you.
whichever way you slice it the pack is a 120Wh
20v x 6Ah = 120Wh
60v x 2Ah = 120Wh
The battery can switch between use cases for different motor types is all.
количество энергии измеряется в ватт*часы
2:03 Each cell is 2.0 Ah, this means it can't be 25R Samsung cells (2.5 Ah).
So if it Samsung cells it will either be INR18650-20Q or INR18650-20R: www.samsungsdi.com/lithium-ion-battery/power-devices/power-tool.html If they used 25R cells, it would become a 7.5 Ah battery.
DeWalt are however soon coming out with a 9.0 Ah FlexVolt battery: flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us/products
Comparing pictures, it has the same physical size as the 6.0 Ah battery which means the 9.0 Ah battery will contain 15 * 3.0 Ah cells.
So if these are Samsung cells too it will be INR18650-30Q cells or INR18650-30R if they exists. INR18650-30Q is not listed on Samsung SDI's website yet, but they have been available on the market for a long time now and you can find a datasheet too with Google. Not sure f INR18650-30R exists (yet?) though.
try modifying it to run a cordless drill on 60v.
Pretty sure that would blow the controller instantly.
which battery cells inside ? by color is not like Samsung 20R
what does the battery weigh compared to a 20V............thx...........victor.
It depends on the Ah, but it's slightly heavier than a 5Ah 20v.
does anyone know if the 60 v is compatible with dewalt cordless drills that come with 12v batteries? It looks like the same clip as the 20 v and 60 v but i just wanna know if its worth cheaping out a few bucks or just wait to get the 20 v
According to the Dewalt site: flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us. The battery pack is compatible with 20V, 60V, and 120V tools.
The battery may physically fit the 12V tool, but it will most likely burn up the motor windings as the battery doesn't step down voltage below 20V...although it would have been nice if Dewalt would have incorporated the 12V in the battery design.
Does anybody know what the TH and C3 terminals are on DeWalt batteries?
Я ничего не понял , но ОЧЕНЬ интересно ! Thank you.
Sucks they are only 2.0 for the 60v line
WTF - $hit or get off the pot ...
Useless except for understanding the pack has been engineered
Thank you for posting. Please be careful poking around inside this battery. 60 volts is dangerous, and with the currents these cells deliver - very easily fatal... I suspect they have some mosfets on the rear of the logic board disconnecting series-mode if battery not connected to a tool which has identified itself. Otherwise this battery would pose a hazard...
It's only 20.4V in his hands, tho.
so not ground breaking just 3 two amp batteries wired together I'll keep my Milwaukee fuel thank you more trouble from black and decker
What's the matter with this type.
You didn't even take it apart... taking it apart means to expose and take out the batteries so we know how to replace them.
trophix this is a suuuper old vid, but since then i have fully disassembled a pack. Unfortunately its really hard to do without causing damage
Toolaholic what damage did you cause... it seems like everything is just glued and soldered... shouldn't be hard to take off and put together.
trophix not quite soldered, the cells are spot welded so you have to yank off the bars and find new solder on ones. You also have to move all the balancing wires
Toolaholic of course you have to remove the welding... that's part of any battery pack. If you have to replace a cell just have a couple of nickel plates on hand to replace them. Also the balancing wires just solder them back together.
Toolaholic
"since then i have fully disassembled a pack"
What's the video title?
Btw. RUclips is a much better platform for reviews than Instagram. Much easier to search for the right video and I think you will get a lot more views here. I have wathced tons of reviews on RUclips but never looked for reviews at Insta and haven't seen any of yours either before seeing this video. RUclips's search function is much better than Instagram.
The comment function on RUclips is also much nicer than on Insta and you can edit typos etc. after posting. The Insta comment function is terrible and you can only see a few words at a time when typing, just terrible for longer comments.
RUclips videos can also be embedded into forums, Twitter and other websites. Unlike Insta pictures/videos that can't be embedded in other websites. At RUclips you can also get notified when someone replies to your comment, unlike at Insta. Despite it's huge success, Insta is really a poor platform. There's things that could be better at RUclips too, but it's the lesser of two evils and where most other reviews can be found. :-)
Send it to AvE
ican rip it apart myself, i just need it to function still. this battery isnt available to the public yet.
What type of battery it? and why that isn't available for public?
I want DeWalt flexvolt. I can't afford them :(
I'm sorry but your wrong. They are. 3.7 volt batteries
Shockern003 yes 3.5-3.7 nominal but they show a higher charge before use
The 9 ah battery has 21700 in it...
So does this one.
A lot more detail in this newer analysis: ruclips.net/video/VAmghq7XadQ/видео.html
I wonder if she's made in the USA!!!
Lol right..
Uhg. I pretty much said that such a battery is a disaster waiting to happen. You can have a 18-20v tool with a high torque motor that can give you plenty of performance and rival or beat corded tools. Dewalt could have made capable tools with their 20v max line (which is the same battery as the 18v systems) line rather than trying to go for the 60v gimmic and sacrifice design. Milwaukee has more than equivalent performance in their m18 line. Then with more amp hours you get the run time. Understand that at 60v the dewalt battery only has 2 ah. By trying to have both a 20v and 60v battery that changes means you have switching components that are only a failure waiting to happen, particularly since a cordless tool battery operates at such high current levels. Such switching components take up lots of space, can heat up, and can have issues with handling such currents reliably. Not to mention, now that I see the inside, that dewalt has resorted to using such small wires running all over and over top of metal traces. Most packs uses metal traces in a more clean pattern that can handle higher currents and load than what these gauge wires can handle. A good example is milwaukee m18 9.0 pack which is a 9 amp hour pack with heavy traces, breath-ability, and more capacity than this dewalt pack which at 20v (18v) is a 6 amp hour pack rather than the new milwaukees 9ah. I think this whole system and battery design is a disaster waiting to happen and a big mistake. Another example of poor thinking in dewalts tool line up is their big heavy stud drill which is equivalent to the super hawg, which is not a design that will work as well in tight spaces. Dewalts design is more like the original corded hawg from before which milwaukee improved upon. For an electrican or someone drilling small auger holes, milwaukee has the regular hawg which is lighter and more manageable than lugging around the super hawg or the dewalt stud drill. Appropriate drill and size for the job that it is needed.
I really want one of these to test. I believe that the small wires are BMS only. I'm pretty sure that the switch that the red bit engages (what he called a disconnect switch) is also a mechanical switch that changes it over to 60v, if you look at the bottom of 60v tools they have an extra bit of plastic that engages it. But I agree that yes it is another point of failure and if it is indeed mechanical there would be contacts that could be worn out, I would hate to imagine the internal arcing in the battery that would occur if someone remove it with the tool going.
you are right. i missed that in my video. it is infact a mechanical switch that engages 60v mode
Seems like pure conjecture to me, though you're right that a switch could fail. Whether this is really going to be an issue remains to be determined, but I think this is a great idea. I have a boatload of 20V Max tools, and these being compatible with them is awesome. 60V tools will be more powerful by design since this battery can supply so much power. I don't think a higher capacity 18V battery is a good idea because high current/low voltage devices are less efficient. If this was a good idea, other manufacturers would have come up with it already. I think this system is going to be a huge success for Dewalt. Time will tell if it's reliable. It's already been shown that their 60V max tools are very high performance.
Ari P Yeah but a 60v 2amp hour battery with run longer then your milwaukee 5amp battery 60 v tools run more efficiently then 18v tools you have to use much heavier wireing to try equal 60v power you sound like a crybaby milwaukee fanboy
I just got Dewalt's 60V grinder. It is awesome! I wonder how the other manufacturers will respond, and I wonder how much of this idea is patented.
poor assembly
Check out AVE, review on this battery the man is much more knowledgeable about this kind of thing.
mateollios 67 yes ive watched his video. he couldnt seem to figure out how to remove the shipping cap. note the date on mine. i was one of the first people with the flexvolt battery. now i know all about the internal chemistry. its fairly simple
if your going to go as far as make a RUclips video plz don't waste people's time guessing at something you aren't willing to take apart. 5 min of my life I won't get back
Jeremy Christensen not sure if you realized the age of this video, but i was one of the first people with a flexvolt battery. at the time i could not risk damaging the pack by taking it apart.
do a teardown video about the porter cable cordless nailer
so not ground breaking just 3 two amp batteries wired together I'll keep my Milwaukee fuel thank you more trouble from black and decker
what do you think the milwaukee 9.0 is?