One thing that changed my 5K running - run the 4th KM like it’s your last, as soon as the watch clicks to 3 put your foot down. Then let the actual last km feeling do it’s magic. I also kick at the start of every km on a 5K now. Made me go from chasing sub 20 to chasing sub 18 now.
Great running. That's a great marker to build on for the summer. You'll definitely get sub 20. I know you're not after a negative split but if you hold back just a little for the first k or 2 it will mean you fade less at 4k. I still fade at around 3-4k but there's a big difference between a few seconds when I do it right, and a massive chunk when I blow up. Oh, and if you're after a flat fast parkrun where your head isn't being clipped by the trees, visit Abbey Park in Leicester. I'll happily pace you.
I agree with this. I have only ever broken 20 once (19:56) and my splits were largely similar BUT I kept something in the tank through km 1 and 2. Not much, and I did end up dry heaving at the finish, but just enough so I didn’t blow up on km 3,4,5
@@conradburdekin722 likewise. Actually, might be useful for people to share splits from their PBs. My Sub 18 was 3:27, 34, 28, 41, 29 (+5 secs, strava measured long). My slowest split was my 4th but only 5 sec outside goal pace. Easing off in that second k definitely helped.
@@DaveMerrett my park run added on 8 seconds vs my garmin so I don’t know the actual splits, but garmin splits I was 3:58 3:57 3:56 3:54 then 4:01. I was absolutely hanging on in that last km but also knew (according to my garmin) I could afford a slightly slower final km. As it turned out I didn’t have as much time to play with as I thought! I’d love Andy’s ability to finish strong. I don’t have that in me
You will get sub twenty, it is a case of gradual progress over time and making sure (as you suggest) that you do the intervals regularly. Two years ago my life’s ambition in running was to sub twenty just once. I managed a 19:59.9 at Stafford parkrun and was ecstatic, but it had been coming. Last year this improved down to 19:15 over the year, about eight sub twenties altogether. It’s about being consistent, week in week out. I can hardly ever hit target pace during intervals but it’s all in, I’m knackered. If I can do it aged 56 (58 now) then you certainly can. Good luck, it’s a few months away. 😀
@@itsonandy you have to be careful, the A route is a great out and back on the flat. However during the wet months it floods so they use the B route, still flat but it’s three laps around some pitches, still a great parkrun but not as fast as the A route. If you want to go for it, either Isabell trail (Stafford), Walsall Arbo, Wolves West park, Beacon (Lichfield) or Wammy in Newcastle U Lyme.
Great attempt. The 5k brings a totally different type of pain than longer distances. I won't say which is "harder" (apples and oranges) but I'll leave it to others to draw conclusions based on the relative popularity of longer Vs shorter races.
Andy best of luck with this challenge - however it's not going to be easy - the faster you get the harder it is to shave a few seconds off. Try 5 x 1km at 3.55/km with 2 minutes jogging recovery. If you can stomach that workout your ready to run 19:59!
That is a great new series to make, we can't wait to see you finally break the wall of 20 minutes as once you do the time comes flying down. We aren't trying to be mean but we reckon it will take you 14 attempts, I know when I was trying to break 20 minutes it took me a whole year 😅😂
Great effort, mate, You have it in you. Keep training how you are.. it'll come, no doubt.. mix up the intervals and bosh. Everything you're doing is good 👍🏻 whenever i have run quickly (for me). I've always mixed my sessions up and kept my body guessing. Longer reps and shorter reps, etc.. Target pace for longer reps and quicker than target pace for shorter reps 👍🏻
Thanks mate. Now the marathon is over I think I can shift the focus to shorter faster stuff without feeling guilty like you do during marathons. I've been a bit poorly lately but am looking forward to the next few weeks to give it another go.
A strategy I've been using lately is trying to treat a 5k like an endurance run rather than a speed run. My first km would 4:15 - 4:20, then after that my splits will go from 4:00 - 3:50. I haven't broke sub 20 yet but doing this I've been getting consistent times of 20:09, 20:10, 20:11 and so on. At least this way I know I'll finish faster than when I started. Good luck with your training, you'll get it one day 👍
Hey Andy thanks for the shoutouts! We went a minute faster this week, got my Pitchcroft pb and it was on the horseshoe. Let me know if you want to hook up for midweek intervals.
I finally broke 20 mins on last weeks parkrun. I tend to start slow so opted to begin hard and hold on which worked. Working as a postie helps strengthen my legs and getting better with each race. Gradual progress is the way especially as a 46 y/o only started running at the start of Covid.
Well done Andy and mostly its the 4. km thats Your accilles and when You have solved that in your brain wait and see my friend. But easy going lad it will be your next goal. Sub 20 for the 5 km. Luck. Inga DK.
Like the guy above says. 10 second hill sprints up a steep hill, plenty of recovery after easy run. Hill repeats less steep grade 1 to 2 minute efforts. Then get some threshold work for strength to help you through that last few K, 4 mile tempos around 10k to HM pace. Add in the usual 5k stuff. 6 weeks and you'll nail it.
Good effort Andy! Sub-21min 5k after 16 weeks of marathon training and then a half marathon is some going. You've not been focusing on the 5k for your training goals. You're clearly fit enough and have enough raw speed there that its not a million miles away.
Positive mindset but you will still be in Marathon recovery for at least another month+ (longer if you keep pushing hard). I would look to relax or just focus on strength and keep the engine ticking over until the end of June, then attack it hard for the rest of the summer and early autumn (trying to just go a little quicker each time). Once fully recovered you will probably find PB's coming again at all distances each time that you lace up.
5:48 you always fade because you always go off too fast! I understand it is hard to run that balance of being on your red line throughout a 5k. But going out even 10 seconds too fast in the first 1km can be horrendously detrimental to your overall performance as you will just be in oxygen debt and massive lactic for the whole race. And with a 5k you never want to be running slower than threshold so you never get a chance to clear that lactate out. PLEASE I beg you, get someone to pace you to EVEN split a 5k aiming for a time you think is achievable on the day and I promise if you just hold back in those first few minutes it will pay dividends the whole rest of the race and you will fly through those KS 3 and 4. If you are ever in Woking for a parkrun shout and I will pace you to whatever time you want to target.
I'm not sure I'd agree running 4 seconds faster than PB pace per k is too fast but I hear you. I've never eased into a 5k pb attempt and maybe it's something to try one day 👍🏻
@@itsonandy not massively certainly, but running a 20 second PB is pretty big in a 5k and takes a significant fitness jump. You are at the point of the fitness curve now where big jumps do not come easy and there are fine margins when it comes to pacing. It's also probably fair to say you weren't in 5k pb shape that morning, so although it was 4 seconds quicker than pb pace, it was probably 7 or 8 seconds quicker than what you were capable of on the day, which certainly does make a difference. I'm in about 17 flat shape at the moment, if I went out in 3:16 (8 seconds quicker than 17 minutes pace) I would be pretty cooked already and if I kept that same pace up for even 1 more km I would probably end up barely breaking 20 mins. I would just be really interested to see you do a hard 5km effort where you hold back in the first half, maybe that pacing strategy wouldn't suit you, but I don't think at least I've ever seen you try to run it that way.
![COLOMBIA vs. CHILE [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TDjN4W3yy1k/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing that changed my 5K running - run the 4th KM like it’s your last, as soon as the watch clicks to 3 put your foot down. Then let the actual last km feeling do it’s magic. I also kick at the start of every km on a 5K now. Made me go from chasing sub 20 to chasing sub 18 now.
Good shout Jack, tricking the brain could be my way in 😎
Great job Andy. I've been chasing it for a while. Made a big step forward at the weekend and got a 20:04 at a seafront parkrun last weekend.
Well done mate, so close!
You'll get this, Andy. I'll punt for 5 attempts or less. Good luck.
I was thinking 5 as well !
Cheers mate - let's see!
Watching in my caravan awning. Going to give Pitchcroft a whirl.
Probably the most boring parkrun course you're likely to encounter but a very quick course that you'll smash!
“I know what I’ve got to do, I’ve just got to run faster” 😂 I think you’re holding yourself back mentally. I reckon 4 attempts. Good luck!
Wow you seem to have faith in me! Cheers mate 👍🏻
I'm sure 'It's On Andy' especially with Brett's encouragement again!!!!
I definitely need to borrow him one day!
Great running. That's a great marker to build on for the summer. You'll definitely get sub 20.
I know you're not after a negative split but if you hold back just a little for the first k or 2 it will mean you fade less at 4k. I still fade at around 3-4k but there's a big difference between a few seconds when I do it right, and a massive chunk when I blow up.
Oh, and if you're after a flat fast parkrun where your head isn't being clipped by the trees, visit Abbey Park in Leicester. I'll happily pace you.
I agree with this. I have only ever broken 20 once (19:56) and my splits were largely similar BUT I kept something in the tank through km 1 and 2. Not much, and I did end up dry heaving at the finish, but just enough so I didn’t blow up on km 3,4,5
@@conradburdekin722 likewise. Actually, might be useful for people to share splits from their PBs.
My Sub 18 was 3:27, 34, 28, 41, 29 (+5 secs, strava measured long). My slowest split was my 4th but only 5 sec outside goal pace. Easing off in that second k definitely helped.
@@DaveMerrett my park run added on 8 seconds vs my garmin so I don’t know the actual splits, but garmin splits I was 3:58 3:57 3:56 3:54 then 4:01. I was absolutely hanging on in that last km but also knew (according to my garmin) I could afford a slightly slower final km. As it turned out I didn’t have as much time to play with as I thought! I’d love Andy’s ability to finish strong. I don’t have that in me
@@conradburdekin722 4th k fastest! You're a machine.
@@DaveMerrett ha ha doubtful 😂
You will get sub twenty, it is a case of gradual progress over time and making sure (as you suggest) that you do the intervals regularly.
Two years ago my life’s ambition in running was to sub twenty just once. I managed a 19:59.9 at Stafford parkrun and was ecstatic, but it had been coming.
Last year this improved down to 19:15 over the year, about eight sub twenties altogether.
It’s about being consistent, week in week out. I can hardly ever hit target pace during intervals but it’s all in, I’m knackered.
If I can do it aged 56 (58 now) then you certainly can.
Good luck, it’s a few months away. 😀
Nice one John, and well done! Is Stafford PR a good one?
@@itsonandy you have to be careful, the A route is a great out and back on the flat.
However during the wet months it floods so they use the B route, still flat but it’s three laps around some pitches, still a great parkrun but not as fast as the A route.
If you want to go for it, either Isabell trail (Stafford), Walsall Arbo, Wolves West park, Beacon (Lichfield) or Wammy in Newcastle U Lyme.
Great attempt. The 5k brings a totally different type of pain than longer distances. I won't say which is "harder" (apples and oranges) but I'll leave it to others to draw conclusions based on the relative popularity of longer Vs shorter races.
It's such a difficult one isn't it to say one is harder, but I definitely think the pain of a 5k is worse!
Challenge? Let’s go for a faster time!
The faster time challenge, love it ❤️
Andy best of luck with this challenge - however it's not going to be easy - the faster you get the harder it is to shave a few seconds off. Try 5 x 1km at 3.55/km with 2 minutes jogging recovery. If you can stomach that workout your ready to run 19:59!
Cheers mate - will definitely try this workout!
That is a great new series to make, we can't wait to see you finally break the wall of 20 minutes as once you do the time comes flying down.
We aren't trying to be mean but we reckon it will take you 14 attempts, I know when I was trying to break 20 minutes it took me a whole year 😅😂
Haha really?! No offence taken at all - A very reasonable shout!
Great effort, mate, You have it in you. Keep training how you are.. it'll come, no doubt.. mix up the intervals and bosh. Everything you're doing is good 👍🏻 whenever i have run quickly (for me). I've always mixed my sessions up and kept my body guessing. Longer reps and shorter reps, etc.. Target pace for longer reps and quicker than target pace for shorter reps 👍🏻
Thanks mate. Now the marathon is over I think I can shift the focus to shorter faster stuff without feeling guilty like you do during marathons. I've been a bit poorly lately but am looking forward to the next few weeks to give it another go.
A strategy I've been using lately is trying to treat a 5k like an endurance run rather than a speed run. My first km would 4:15 - 4:20, then after that my splits will go from 4:00 - 3:50. I haven't broke sub 20 yet but doing this I've been getting consistent times of 20:09, 20:10, 20:11 and so on. At least this way I know I'll finish faster than when I started.
Good luck with your training, you'll get it one day 👍
Cheers mate - my strategy is run for your life 😂
Hey Andy thanks for the shoutouts!
We went a minute faster this week, got my Pitchcroft pb and it was on the horseshoe.
Let me know if you want to hook up for midweek intervals.
Nice one Merv - I've been bit poorly lately but intervals sound good. Will give you a shout one day 👍🏻
@@itsonandy I saw. Covid. Hate it, although lockdown got me running…
Good luck on breaking 20, I'm also going for a sub 20 at Perry hall on Saturday 😁
Good work- sub 20 is bloody hard isn't it!
Here we go! Quality video mate
Cheers mate ❤️
Great vid, well done. Are you doing the Great North Run again this year ?
Thanks! Yes I will be there 😎
I finally broke 20 mins on last weeks parkrun. I tend to start slow so opted to begin hard and hold on which worked. Working as a postie helps strengthen my legs and getting better with each race. Gradual progress is the way especially as a 46 y/o only started running at the start of Covid.
Well done Dave, must have felt great 👍🏻
Love your backyard!
Thanks! Although the dog has destroyed a lot of the good stuff that used to be there...😂
Well done Andy and mostly its the 4. km thats Your accilles and when You have solved that in your brain wait and see my friend. But easy going lad it will be your next goal. Sub 20 for the 5 km. Luck. Inga DK.
Thank you Inga 👍🏻
I recently went to do a fast 5k - first fast attempt in nearly a year.
Did 20:49 - exactly the same as you!!
Haha - how strange 😅
Like the guy above says. 10 second hill sprints up a steep hill, plenty of recovery after easy run. Hill repeats less steep grade 1 to 2 minute efforts. Then get some threshold work for strength to help you through that last few K, 4 mile tempos around 10k to HM pace. Add in the usual 5k stuff. 6 weeks and you'll nail it.
If all else fails, run it on a track.
Cheers mate!
Let’s get it 💪🏻
Yeaaaah boooi!
I think you'll have it in like 2-3 shots! If you're ever down in Somerset my local parkrun Burnham on Sea is very flat and fast.
Nice one mate, thanks for the heads up I shall add it to the list!
👌👍
Two words..Hill sprints...short and long....builds strength speed mental toughness..I reckon August earliest before you crack sub 20
I'll be getting some of these done!
Good effort Andy! Sub-21min 5k after 16 weeks of marathon training and then a half marathon is some going. You've not been focusing on the 5k for your training goals. You're clearly fit enough and have enough raw speed there that its not a million miles away.
Thank you mate - am hoping its not too far off. Am enjoying the chase!
I honestly don’t know anyone who owns a hammock! 😅
You do now 😜
One attempt if the training prior to it is designed to specifically help you improve your overall pace
Cheers will 😎
Weston would be a good one for you.
I'm very tempted to get back down there as I love running there 👍🏻
Positive mindset but you will still be in Marathon recovery for at least another month+ (longer if you keep pushing hard). I would look to relax or just focus on strength and keep the engine ticking over until the end of June, then attack it hard for the rest of the summer and early autumn (trying to just go a little quicker each time). Once fully recovered you will probably find PB's coming again at all distances each time that you lace up.
Cheers Mark, definitely not feeling at my fastest RN!
Reckon youll get it not next one but one after, youre just a bit tired from marathon and the half still!
Cheers Ric - we shall see!
18.40 PB at Musa parkrun 6 months of hill repeats and 1 km repeats as well as a really easy 10 miles on Sunday before this my PB was 23.20.
Nice one mate 👍🏻
5:48 you always fade because you always go off too fast! I understand it is hard to run that balance of being on your red line throughout a 5k. But going out even 10 seconds too fast in the first 1km can be horrendously detrimental to your overall performance as you will just be in oxygen debt and massive lactic for the whole race. And with a 5k you never want to be running slower than threshold so you never get a chance to clear that lactate out. PLEASE I beg you, get someone to pace you to EVEN split a 5k aiming for a time you think is achievable on the day and I promise if you just hold back in those first few minutes it will pay dividends the whole rest of the race and you will fly through those KS 3 and 4. If you are ever in Woking for a parkrun shout and I will pace you to whatever time you want to target.
I'm not sure I'd agree running 4 seconds faster than PB pace per k is too fast but I hear you. I've never eased into a 5k pb attempt and maybe it's something to try one day 👍🏻
@@itsonandy not massively certainly, but running a 20 second PB is pretty big in a 5k and takes a significant fitness jump. You are at the point of the fitness curve now where big jumps do not come easy and there are fine margins when it comes to pacing. It's also probably fair to say you weren't in 5k pb shape that morning, so although it was 4 seconds quicker than pb pace, it was probably 7 or 8 seconds quicker than what you were capable of on the day, which certainly does make a difference. I'm in about 17 flat shape at the moment, if I went out in 3:16 (8 seconds quicker than 17 minutes pace) I would be pretty cooked already and if I kept that same pace up for even 1 more km I would probably end up barely breaking 20 mins. I would just be really interested to see you do a hard 5km effort where you hold back in the first half, maybe that pacing strategy wouldn't suit you, but I don't think at least I've ever seen you try to run it that way.
I reckon you get it before the end of July and I’m going with a time of 19:51
That would be dreamland, and you could be onto a winner with that prediction!
I think you could get this done in less than 3 months. It might not take that long.
I hope so - hoping to do it before my bday in September 👍🏻
I'm saying you do it on your 7th attempt
Good shout - I wonder if you'll be right.😎