FMS Unplugged: Ep 9 - Squat vs. Deadlift: Which should you choose?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In FMS Unplugged - Episode 9, Gray Cook discusses the differences between the squat vs. deadlift. Concepts include when to choose which exercise, Gray's suggestion that the deadlift may be favored over the squat when evaluating risk vs. reward for most people, and tips for coaching the deadlift.
This Gentlemen is showing me the light every time I am listening to him!
Thank you for that!!!
Gray, Brilliant stuff. Your teachings have helped my clients and my business more than you know. Grateful...
this is a very straight forward approach to coaching these two functional movement patterns. thanks
Thank you for the good information.
Amazing information. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you. . .
excellent
Fantastic Vid.
Excellent.
Brilliant!
I fail both tests by a mile.
I can't reach my toes even after two months of stretching and I can't get my leg up past a 45 degree angle.
And I have lately discovered that next to my extreme unflexibility I have anterior pelvic tilt.
I have deadlifted injury free for 3 years with my spine never beeing perfectly straight at the bottom because that has proved impossible for me despite all the stretching I've done.
However it is a most uncomfortable position to be in and my leverages at the floor are extremely restrictive.
If I put the bar a couple of inches higher I can explode the weight up.
But I still prefer to piss against the wind and deadlift off the floor.
This means that the weights I can lift are not big enough to challenge my upper body.
I solved that by using bands which add 40 pounds of weight at the top.
So I get a better lower body workout and upper body workout as well without having to resort to rack pulls.
And I don't like sumo, regardless of if it's better suited to my anatomy.
I can fail all the tests but I will still deadlift conventionally, even if I have to start off a small block to stay safe, it is just such a great exercise.
Christos Segkounas elevate the barbell to shorten the range of motion. Drop the height of elevation gradually on the barbell it should sort you out over time
Great!!! To the point!!!
Is it necessary to squeeze your glutes at the standing position and drive hips past vertical into hyperextention? I teach not to do that. You?
Hex bar ima use straight bar on deadlift hurts back and i can go heavier on hex bar
i choose both
as far as deadlifting, i have all my clients do sumos bc think about picking up a laundry basket or a child or helping someone move a table. the sumo deadlift is a very very natural movement.
Although I don't like to Sumo deadlift I find it has the greatest carry over to every day life.
In order to pick up something you have to bring it in between your legs for it to be as close to the CoG as possible for you to pick up.
This puts you in a sumo position.
You will never bring a box in front of you and deadlift it like that, you will try to being it in between the knees.
This is exactly why I have always gone sumo, but not too wide.
i think deadlift is more functional. I pick stuff up off the ground all the time.
I need an expert in western Canada how do I find someone who can help me with fms
+Nick Duncan Hi Nick. I am an instructor at FMS from Vancouver, Canada. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. - Mike
I have a good toe touch (can even touch it with all 5 fingers) but I can't to the leg rise fully (hamstrings blocking). Can I nevertheless deadlift?
Freakin' genius! :))
Everyone is going to have their own opinion, and ultimately different exercises work better/worse for different people (i.e. long torso often means back problems when deadlifting). Personally, I think trap bar deadlift is far superior to and obviates both squat and deadlift. Most people don't have a reason to specifically squat/deadlift. They are tools (unless you compete in power/strong/olympic) to work certain muscles. It can be a good tool for some people, but there is nothing special or magical about it. Choose the best tool for your body shape. Even people who pay attention to form end up with back injuries from deadlifting (not everyone, but they are very common), so why risk something that may injure you when there is an equally effective exercise that carries less risk? Trap bar is almost universally considered safer; the only dissenting opinions claim that it is possible lose control of the bar during heavy lifts. I won't say they are lying, but I really can't see that being a big issue. There are a lot of good articles by trainers and a few legitimate researchers that also extol trap bar.
I wholeheartedly disagree. deadlifting is a natural movement. having the ability to lift an object anterior to centre of mass with a stable spine is infinitely more transferable than lifting an object inside Base of support.
it might take a lot of work to get to that point but it's achievable for most and an incredibly useful goal for anyone who values their athletic ability or orthopaedic health.
Karl Humphreys Deadlifting is still an idealized way to lift weights. The mass is entirely concentrated half an inch in front of your shin, it always starts from the exact same height, and has convenient handles. If your goal is transferability you should look at odd object lifting (unless you have some specific thing in your life that requires dl). Another issue is that there are many body types. Many normal people are ill-suited for safe deadlifting, but no one is telling them that. A slightly long torso may mean you feel like a safe weight is far too little for a good workout, but any more is too much for your back because you have a long lever arm. Your health and athletic ability are not going to improve if you injure yourself. A lot of the power lifting gyms and trainers have moved to a lot less dl. They focus on squats, gms, etc and only train dl enough to retain proficiency so they can compete. That makes sense because their goal involves competition dl. I never tell people not to dl, but I don't think it makes sense to recommend an exercise to a general audience that will inevitably injury a lot of them when they can accomplish their goal in a safer manner. I want people to look at their goals, and if there is something that really requires dl then go at it, but if your goals are things like fitness, health, or safer lifting boxes at work then take a look at your options. If you google trap vs straight deadlift there are many articles and trainers who agree.
You have a very NHS-esque paradigm which in my opinion is a massive part of the problem with regards to physiotherapist intervention and personal training for that matter.
Strength and conditioning isn't about making every task functional, it's about attaining, reinforcing and strengthening sound movement patterns, which can then be integrated into more varied, dynamic less predictable patterns.
Ie. A good deadlift will reinforce and strengthen an individuals ability to generate force from the hips with a stable/neutral spine. Which will in turn facilitate a person's ability to engage in more complex movements (which I agree are useful in their own right) in more diverse environments, with correct lumbopelvic hip mechanics IN THE BAG, so to speak. The 'convenient handles' and 'same height' point only adds to my argument. If people can't safely lift a predictable, reproducible object in a low distraction environment, why the hell would you get them doing crazy shit with stones and sandbags?
I think the trap bar/long torso lever arm argument is ass backward. That's the whole point of deadlifts! It's like saying low carb diets are a bad idea for diabetics, because they've got bad dietary habits, won't adhere and will binge. If you've got a long torso you won't be setting any DL records, but learning to hip hinge top down is literally the best thing you could do for your back (I'm not even saying it has to be off the floor - for most that's not even an option to start)
Nothing worth learning is easy. Pertaining to movement, deadlift is one of those skills.
Oh and powerlifters can't deadlift (90%) of them - Judging by youtube anyway. If you require a belt to keep a flat spine, your biomechanics are screwed and you will fry your nervous system due to massive leakages in inefficiency.
Of course It totally depends on the patient - although I believe everyone have the potential to deadlift safely, for some people it will be an insurmountable task (mainly talking about poorly motivated older people here).
I will argue this until the cows come home because I believe it's that important.
+Karl Humphreys Deadlifting doesn't train a pattern because it's only one movement, and should be performed exactly the same every time you do it. You train patterns by doing multiple movements with slightly different executions. Otherwise you aren't training a pattern you are just training one thing.
The powerlifters you see on youtube are probably performing their max lifts which are naturally going to be less than perfect form and use belts. But they show that even people who specifically want to train their deadlift as high as it can possibly go will use alternatives for the majority of their training for safety reasons. In other words you can get the same benefit using other exercises.
Your argument is more akin to saying it's better to expose people to a full disease to build immunity when there is a perfectly good vaccine available--something that is safer, but will still provide protection.
Try googling straight bar vs trap bar deadlift, and read the myriad respected coaches who recommend trap bar deadlifting, and medical studies which show the benefits. You get as good or better results with much lower injuries. You aren't alone; there are plenty of people stuck on deadlifting because that's what they've always known, but there are plenty of back exercise to choose from. People just need to evaluate their goals and then make their decision.
+Frank Berger a trap bar deadlift is just a partial squat with the weight in your hands! the fact your refer to the deadlift as a back exercise nullifies any respect I had in your argument. Studies are a totally irrelevant tool in this case. Trap bar is a copout movement. It doesn't require even a fraction of mobility or lumbopelvic hip control to execute. The exact things that make deadlifting 'dangerous' and tragically ill performed are the exact same things which make it so miraculously beneficial.
I'd go as far to say trap bar deadlift and squats encourage too much axial loading, and therefore facilitate poor movement patterns, in the absence of deadlifts. Think about sprinting - are the forces through the hips, pelvis and trunk axial or does a person require the ability to control their own load (plus reactive forces) anterior to and outside of their base of support?
I once shared your perceptions, but then I seen the light. The problem is we are looking at the deadlift from different paradigms. I challenge you (if you are decently trained - which I'm going to assume you are) Grab your body weight on a bar, then bend forward keeping your back straight. When you get to your knees, with the bar 2 iches out from the knees stop and stay still. Hold for 20s. If you do this and you can breathe, your glutes are engaged and your deep trunk muscles are working then I respect your argument because you have felt what authentic hip control is.
If however you can't do this - your hamstrings are firing like crazy, your back muscles are cramping, you're struggling to breathe. Then I'm arguing about which has more natural beauty australia or new zealand - with a blind man.
Wow...
4:19
too much squatting led to me developing chrondromalacia :(
My wife has the same problem and it has nothing to do with squats because she never did squat as an exercise.
Squat vs. Deadlift?
Which one should you chose?
Well do both, of course.
Now get off the 'puter and get to the gym.
This isn't rocket surgery, bro.
Amen.
Duj 🤦♂️
I thought it was a great video up until you said to have a lordotic curve in the lumbar. Lordosis in the lumbar is not a good thing especially when you have a load on it, a neutral spine is probably what you should be cueing.
a neutral spine is a Lordosis in the lumbar smarty pants
+Mark Mayo Yeah, to reinforce what Karl said, a position of slight lordosis IS the neutral position of the lumbar spine. A lumbar spine that is truly flat would actually be in a relatively flexed position, in which your discs wouldn't appreciate a lot of extra loading.
Of course you would not want a hyperlordotic lumbar position (meaning too MUCH lumbar extension) as then you would be loading the facets with a lot of compression. I think this is what you were getting at, but it's important to clarify, I think.
+Mitch Tate indeed. plus there is emerging evidence that a slight anterior pelvic tilt is a desirable cue as opposed to the frequently used 'tuck pelvis' to create lumbopelvic stability. it makes sense to me, tucking pelvis might be ok for trunk exercises but locking into posterior pelvic tilt for dynamic movements cannot be efficient surely.
Karl Humphreys Well I guess the idea would be that if you overcue tucking the pelvis you're going to encourage a flat (and therefore flexed) lumbar spine.
I feel like cues like that come about as a result of coaches trying to coach people out of their excessive APT, and a lot of people having excessive APT.
Mitch Tate Yeah, sounds about right