"He might have gone on living, but he made one fatal slip - when he captured Bond, told him his plan, and locked him in a burning building without taking away his wristwatch"
I wouldn't put it past Bond to have some kind of long-slide 1911 made for a 'heavy combat pistol' kept in his personal vehicle. As a 1960s equivalent to a Mk23.
The other possibility that popped into my mind (except for the manual safety) was the Colt version of the US Army Model 1917 revolver using .45ACP in moonclips.
The 1917 service revolver Colt made for the US was based on the WWI military contracts from the UK amd Canada for simplified Colt New Service revolvers in .455 Webley. They were also made in the British caliber for the commercial market in barrels as long as 7.5", and were not unpopular "private purchase" pistols for British and Canadian officers prior to the changeover to the .380/200 cartridge in the interior period. As late as WWII, you still encountered some officers carrying them.
@@geodkyt Yes, I used to own one of the Canadian military stamped Colt New Services in .455 as well as Mountie-marked ones in .455 and .45 Colt (the RNWMP used both calibres). My recollection is the two police guns had 5.5" barrels while the CEF one was 6". My CEF-marked S&W in .455 also had a 6" barrel. I was thinking M1917 because Fleming explicitly said .45 Colt instead of .455 Webley.
As a european i can say that when we say "colt 45" unless you are a gun nerd we are talking about the Colt 1911. Also, when you look at the profile of european (mainly french, german, belgian and british) revolvers of that era, they tend to have a shorter barrel than US made ones. Compared to a 1917 army revolver, the barrel of a Webley feels shorter (even if it is not true). Just my 2 cents 😁 The argument made for the 1911 is pretty strong!
When I was growing up as a kid in the US in the 60's, a Colt .45 was always a single action colt used by cowboys in the movies. Most of us kids didn't know about the 1911 at the time.
@@srellison561 While my father was an Army reservist, and my maternal Grandfather was an NRA member. I am a bit too young for the peak of cowboy movies.
I remember as a kid reading James Bond books and wondering why some areas were so detailed, while other areas were just vague. I asked my parents about this and I was told to use my imagination to fill it in! This was at the same time I was reading the first couple of Jerry Ahern's 'The Survivalist' series of books!
It's similar to many American writers. They'll leave things they don't know about vague. So many writers will just say the character has a "military carbine". Is it an M1 Carbine or M16? No further detail
My dad collected the Mack Bolan Executioner books, so my older brother and I read them all as well. They suffered the same issue with some some parts of the books being very detailed (if incorrect) while other parts were more vague.
I want to say in the John Gardner run of Bond novels (some of which I think are good enough to become movies) he upgraded it to a Ruger Black Hawk in 44 Magnum
@@rotwang2000 The Boothroyd connection here isn't relevant, as he didn't come into the picture until the writing of FRWL, the Colt appears in 1953's CASINO ROYALE, five novels earlier.
@@andrewhopkins1010 I remember that and that Gardner went through a few guns like the Browning 1903, the HK VP70 and P7 and then he settled on the ASP. While I haven't read all of Gardner's run, I thought he did a decent job keeping Bond relevant for the 1980s/early 90s though you could tell the movies had influenced him
Caleb correctly identified the short story "From a view to a kill" , in which Fleming indicates that the "long barrel colt" has a safety catch. If I remember corectly, he had some spare magazines for it in "The spy who loved me" story. I can't wait until my deluxe version of the book arrives! Thank you guys for doing the book and the video series.
I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS VIDEO! I first read Moonraker when I was an eighteen year old with a bright red Triumph sportscar and I used to love reading about Bond and his magnificent Bentley. In my imagination as a teenager, I always imagined his "long barrel Colt" to be a revolver - but I was a little English boy and didn't have much of an idea.
@@Dregkar Sadly not! But when I moved to America I had a string of old Lincolns I nicknamed "The Locomotive" in honor of Bond's Bentley. I love old cars.
Didn't Drax run a kid in a red Triumph off the road during the climactic chase in "Moonraker"? I seem to recall it had something written on the side, like "Red Bomber" or something. What model did you have? I once bought a Triumph Spitfire off of Ebay and fixed it up only to have it give up the ghost on me on my way to the airport to pick up a friend. My plan was, as I was moving to Tennessee, to get one of the local boys to put in a Ford V-6 in the car, but, it was not to be (sigh).
@@varanid9 Oh wow, a Spitfire with a V8 would have been a BEAST! I had a TR7, but I also had a Triumph Spitfire later, and an MGB GT. On the occasions they run right, British sports cars are such fun
My favorite Bond moment is when he upgraded to a super high power .38 special revolver. A weapon only eclipsed in power by modern weapons like the Desert Eagle.
.38 special used to be a lot spicier back in the day, but the pressure limits were revised down* around 1970. With old .38 special loads you could reliably expand to .65 inch with great penetration. This was a time when getting any auto-loading cartridge (9mm or .45) to reliably expand was only for custom reloads. It was a damn good option at the time. *This was due to various reasons like a proliferation of weak .38 special revolvers and debates over how to convert from CUP to PSI. Plus, so many just wanted a .38 snubnose where all that power was wasted or they wanted a low recoil target load. The industry attitude was "just buy a .357 mag if you don't like it"
Q telling Bond, it only holds five shots, but when those five are gone, everybody is dead! And then laughs, until he notices Bond and M aren't laughing!
I always figured he had one of the .455 Webley Colt New Service revolvers made for the Canadian and British trade (primarily private purchase by officers prior to WWII). To a WWII vet used to Enfield .380/200 service revolvers, a 5" or 6" Colt New Service would definately present as "long barrelled".
The commandos also frequently used the Colt New Service and the Smith & Wesson Triple Lock in .455 Webley/Eley --I agree completely this makes the most sense. I have a .455 Webley chambered (marked .455 Eley) Colt New Service that has provenance to a soldier who carried it during service with the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group). So I think this makes the most sense. The gun is also quite a large frame and feels very large/long by comparison to a ppk.
@@dwaneanderson8039 He wasn't a gun guy. He could have been referring to the hammer as a 'safety' and meaning to say "he left the hammer in DA, so as not to accidentally shoot in single action". I understand that is backwards to how we would actually say it. As gun people we say the hammer is "down" when it isn't cocked because we are referencing it's position relative to the primer, however it would not be a stretch for someone unfamiliar to see that it is physically up in that position and physically down in the cocked position and flip the terms.
There is another option - the Colt M1917 Revolver. Chambered for .45 ACP, with the cartridges carried in 3 round Half Moon clips (So that you can get a rimless cartridge to work in a revolver). As a side note, the use of the Clips make the M1917 the fastest reload in a revolver until the development of the Speedloader. They're good shooters, too.
It's always possible that the long-barrelled Colt is a custom build, just for him. That would enable it to be the 1909 double action model in the lockwork and cylinder, but long in the tube and not matching to anything particular in actual history.
It is also possible that "long-barrelled Colt" means "a long barreleld gun, which is a colt" as in describing it as having a longer barrel than the Webley revolvers his british audience was familliar with, and not being a reference to a colt with a longer barrel than the standard model!
@@svenblubber5448 I'm surprised there was no argument being made that the long-barreled .45 Colt is literally a customized 1911 with a longer barrel/slide, iirc those were a thing in the sporting sector and it would make a lot of sense for a super-cool super-spy to have a suped-up version of "the best pistol ever" as their difficult-to-conceal car gun, no? Plus it would look badass for Bond to have, not just a 1911, but a HONKIN 1911 with custom sights and all the works in his hands when he's transitioning from his vehicle into a high-stakes scenario that requires it.
@@svenblubber5448 Also, if he used a 1911, those came in three barrel lengths, with 5" being the longest model. So by long-barreled he may simply have meant that he chose the longest barrel option.
When I first read the discrimination of the long barrel Colt, I pictured the SSA, but pointing out the safety description and the 20AU connection is significant evidence in the argument for the 1911, not to mention a compelling argument for acquiring a copy of your book, which I am looking forward to.
As someone who has read all the flemming 007 novels, I've noticed an odd pattern where flemming is more likely to call a gun by the name of the manufacturer, this being an obvious example being a "Colt", another being the "Spandau" machine guns used by the goons in Dr. No or the "Remington" rifle he uses in the same novel
A few years ago Lindybeige got into a pissing match with commenters over his stubborn insistence on calling the MG-42 the "Spandau", so this is definitely a British thing.
As a counterpoint a big revolver would make sense for a backup gun that was stored loaded in a car or some such in case of an emergency. I know back in the 60s and 70s I was always told you never kept the magazine of a gun loaded because the spring would take a set and could cause jamming. Revolvers were preferred for that because they didn’t have that problem. I know that’s changed in modern times but this would probably still be the thinking back then. But once a “safety” is mentioned that throws revolvers out the window because they generally don’t have manual safeties in the first place.
There are a very few revolvers with safeties, mostly mandated by people who didn't know enough to have an opinion. A heavier weapon in your car definitely makes sense. Its why most police officers have some sort of rifle or shotgun in their cars.
@@alexsis1778 He also could have just been referring to the hammer as a 'safety' and was saying he left the gun in double action so it didn't accidentally go off.
@@MandolinMagi Eh, all those guys that carried 45s in ww2 came home and bought .25acp, 32acp, and .38 revolvers for concealed carry. Vasily Blohkin use a .25acp Walther to kill over 7000 people in 28 days so it will do the job. The role of a gun like that and the way Bond used it was getting a gun in to places where most people won't. For jobs that required more firepower he brought more firepower.
I'd be inclined to discount the possibility of the Single-action Army if only because it's single-action. If the point of having the gun in the car is to be able to use it while driving, single-action takes more of the shooter's attention than something double-action or auto-loading. Doing that while driving could be problematic. Another argument against a Colt New Service derivative is that the .455 Webley-chambered model was an acceptable model for British officers to purchase for personal carry in lieu of a Webley revolver, and available in such numbers and for so many decades that if Bond as a former Commando and officer had experience with a Colt-produced revolver in this caliber range, it very likely would have been a .455 Webley cartridge. Such a pistol would have satisfied the 'old west' feel with a revolver while still being familiar to a character with Bond's background and presumably having ready access to ammunition. The Colt Government Model M1911 to me makes sense with the "long barrel" designation if it's 5" barrel is compared to models for officers or generals that had shorter 4 1/4" or 3 1/2" barrels, particularly in light of the references to a safety. Plus there should have been sufficient ammunition available both after WWII and with a continued American presence in Europe after the war, .45ACP would be easy to come by. Even if stowed unchambered ("Condition 3") it would only be an extra step the first time to chamber a round, or if it's method of stowage is designed well, stowed with a round chambered, cocked, and safety on ("Condition 1") for quick draw and use without having to take an extra step while driving. The magazine spring fatigue thing is a concern, but if Bond is getting sufficient range-time then he should be practicing with all of the weapons that he owns and realistically expects to use, including the weapon stowed in his car.
When I first read the Bond novels when I was a teenager I thought of this as a long-slide 1911, like the AMT Hardballer I had seen in Guns&Ammo. But of course that hadn't been created yet. Given he gets a S&W revolver in Dr. No I later reassessed the 'long barrel Colt' to be a Model 1917 and the safety catch issue to be a Flemming artistic misnomer or some weird Q-Branch modification...
This was my thought too, but I have no idea when 6 inch plus barrels became available on the 1911. Of course, I'm sure Q Branch could have come up with one at any time...
I like Caleb a lot. I always enjoy watching people who are extremely knowledgeable about the minutiae of an incredibly niche subject matter do their thing.
Oh my gosh, I admire your deep intertextual analysis of "what did the author mean"? I also once wondered what "heavy Spanish browning" meant in another author's book. And after analysis, I understood.
My assumption is that people in his social class probably knew a thing or two about shotguns, and possibly nitro express-style safari rifles - but pistols, not so much.
@@AshleyPomeroyHis social class made up significant portion if not the majority of the officer corps, so knowing a thing or two about pistols would be expected. Service rifles, perhaps not.
There is a distinction between knowing about guns in a professional capacity, as a soldier for example, and being a gun nerd. Fleming clearly didn't consider the minutiae of exactly what model of gun bond had and the exact specs and capabilities of it as a particularly important or interesting part of the story he was trying to tell. He was much more interested in the high society lifestyle and espionage activities, so dedicated his research and wordcount towards those details. A book that focuses on everything in excruciating detail would be awful to read. An author needs to make choices.
So, the most likely candidate is an M1911-styled handgun. Makes sense, given that the Bond novels were more or less set in the Cold War, with Britain (like every other nation) just fresh off the insanity of the Second World War. Wouldn't be surprised if his M1911 was modified in a similar capacity as Naked Snake's M1911 during Operation Snake Eater.
Bond: "It's a long barrel .45" Big Boss: " *three minute infodump while Eva is just standing there thinking 'bruh i just grabbed a gun that was lying around wtf'* "
I am a huge fan of the literary Bond, and am building a collection of all the guns Fleming's Bond uses in the novels. I have yet to get some of the ones he picks up from fallen enemies, but I have a complete set of all of his personal guns. This was the same conclusion I came to about the .45 he keeps in his car - I'm sure it's a 1911 too. I think the main point of contention is the 'Army Special' name. That's quite easy to explain though. Fleming probably had a vague memory that there was a gun named the Colt Army Special, and simply got the names confuesed when he was describing the 1911. The 1911 was made by Colt, and was the standard issue pistol of the US Army, so it's easy to see how such a mistake could happen. As for the 'long barreled' part, it seems that Fleming describes all large handguns as 'long barreled', and all handguns with short barrels are described as having a 'sawn barrel', even if they came that way from the factory (like Tee Hee's Colt Detective Special with the 'sawn barrel').
I was thinking maybe he used "long barreled" to describe the Government model as by the time he was writing the books the shorter barreled Commander and Officer models were available, and were possibly more common in his circles. But your reasoning for the "Army Special" name makes sense. And its not like he could easily look it up on the internet. That world was so different back then.
@@lightningcat82 Exactly. Not only was Fleming not a firearms expert, but Bond isn't either really. He's very good at shooting, but he doesn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms. For example, in The Spy Who Loved Me, Bond calls his revolver a "Smith and Wesson Police Positive'.
2 different rounds. .455 Webley for revolvers and .455 Webley for the Webley Self Loading Pistol & later the Colt 1911 .455. To differentiate the two rounds, the .455 needed for semi auto weapons was commonly called "Long Colt". Commander Bond was an orphan and held tightly to things from his past, like the old Bentley. I have no doubt the car gun was his old Navy issue Colt 1911 in .455 Webley.
As I recall, the US usage was to distinguish .45 Colt and .45 Schofield, with .45 Colt getting the addition of .45 Long Colt, when there was no short Colt.
The thing about the Single Action Army though is that it's the greatest handgun ever made. Six shots, more than enough to kill anything that moves. Though the engravings offer no tactical advantage whatsoever.
The audio is much better this time. Good job. The plates in the book are great. Nailed it on the head 9 minutes in to say Flemming doesn't actually know much about guns himself.
I always assumed that Bond's car gun was there to stop a car with. In which case, a 45 Long Colt makes a lot more sense, as they can be loaded with hard nosed bullets at near-magnum pressures. When you absolutely need to penetrate an engine block... The Colt SAA makes a good platform for that kind of high-powered shooting, and would have been available in that era.
The Colt Commander and Officer 1911 models came out in the early 1950s. Compared to those guns' 4.25 and 3.5-inch barrels, the standard 1911's 5-inch barrel is "long."
I still remember finding a worn copy of The Spy Who Loved Me and The Wrecking Crew (Donald Hamilton) underneath the bunk I was told was mine back in 1976. Never read a James Bond or Matt Helm book before and they started me reading a whole new genre of books.
From what I remember of the books.. there were two revolvers he was issued. One was long-barreled, the other had a shorter barrel. I recall reading that one or both had the cylinder specifically drilled for five rounds "to save weight" (which doesn't make sense to me).
He might have seen a picture of one of Jim Clark’s early 1911 long slides. As a long time customer of Clark Custom Guns going back four decades or so I remember reading that Jim Senior acquired a couple of barrels of 1911 slides that had been flame cut in half. They cost almost nothing and he figured out with some careful cutting, welding, and a custom 6” barrel he could make a long slide 1911.
The New Service (first shown in video) was nearly identical to the actual Colt Army Special except for size (look them up together), available with a 7 1/2 barrel and was VERY popular with British officers pre WW I. In fact, Gunwriter Leroy Thompson has several long barreled "Target" examples (at least one chambered in 45 Colt) documented by name to have been owned by individual British officers and marked as sighted in for specific target distances at the Bisley range. Those match ranges were 50-150 yards, meaning these were highly accurate, powerful (for the era) weapons that would 'reach out' if ambushed along a countryside roadway. Equally important, it wouldn't have seemed out of place in rural England or had a presence that screamed "SPY!" during the early Cold War era. (Yes it was huge, but any need for compactness kinda disappears when your "holster" is a Bentley...) But I've read all Fleming's novels and let's be honest; his gun knowledge sucked.
In Icebreaker, which I'm sure Caleb will discuss in his book, Bond utilizes a Ruger Super Blackhawk hidden underneath the dash of his Saab 911 Turbo (yes Bond drove a Saab in the early John Gardner novels, though he would trade that in for a Bentley Mulsanne Turbo) and firing through a hidden slot was able to kill a bad guy.
Gardner loved his Ruger revolvers! Greatest crime is the fact that Icebreaker features a Ruger and a P7, but Gardner opts to use the Ruger .44 in all the action scenes over Bond's 9mm.
@@commandobond Those Gardner novels absolutely stretched credulity. The funniest scene was in Brokenclaw where Bond is about to impersonate some guy and the FBI agent tells him, yeah he's about your age. Yeah 70s! 😂
7:46 He may have also gotten some of that insight from his own cousin, the legendary actor Christopher Lee, as he was also an SOE operative during WWII.
I love the story, in filming Lord of the Rings he gave feedback on the kind of noise someone makes when they get stabbed in the back. Something along the lines of they don’t scream out, it’s more like the breath being forced out of their body.
When I first read Casino Royal, I pictured the gun to be a 7in Colt SAA Revolver. I thought to myself “classic car, classic gun, it fits.” So, at least, for me that’s what it will always be.
I think a Colt New Service type revolver. It is 'long barrelled' compared to 4" or 2" models which would be considered more 'normal' length. I think calling it long is a vague description in the sense that a lay person would look at the revolver with a barrel poking out more than 4" as looking (and generally being) long. Also calling it a 'Army Special' is more referring to it as a Army revolver rather than the model name. I've found in literature and movies a lot of revolvers are called 'police special' or 'army special' referring to all double-action type revolvers that would be used by the police or army and not referring to the actual model names of that given by Colt to certain models (I've seen 'S&W .38 Police Special' many-a-times).
Colonel Urqhart (spelling) of the British paratroopers used a 1911 in Operation Market Garden. He was incidentally portrayed by Sean Connery in A Bridge Too Far.
In 1956, when the book "Diamonds Are Forever" was published, Las Vegas was still very much wrapped up in an Old West theme. Hotel/casinos like the Last Frontier and the Pioneer were all about cowboys and horses, and the SAA in 45 Colt would have fit in perfectly.
The description in fleming's books are a Colt 1911, Long Slide .45 ACP., and he also had a colt 2 inch Detective Special in .38 spec. that has a cut away trigger guard like Fleming was given by JE Hoover
In reading the novels I always understood the car gun to be a 1911. I probably felt that because in the post war period that pistol would be the most available, especially with both Bond and Felix being WW2 vets. That being said, the possibility of Bond and Indiana Jones both carrying M1917 revolvers is intriguing.
Note that the film studio wanted a promotional picture with a long barrel pistol. They couldnt find one quickly enough. Some one in the studio had a Walther airpistol, which has along barrel, so they used that for the photo that appeared on a famous James Bond poster.
Seeing as the 1911 came in distinct lengths like the government or the commander model it would make the most sense especially since bond already is comfortable with magazine fed weapons during a time when wheelguns were the most commonly trusted handgun types around.
I think in light of the No. 30 connection the full-sized 1911 is very likely the correct choice and "long barrel" might just be to differentiate the original from the Commander that would have come out in '50 and gaining popularity while Fleming was working on the novel that was released in '53.
I’ve always thought it interesting in the movie “Live and Let Die” Roger Moore has what appears to be a S&W model 29 .44 Magnum. He carries it in a shoulder holster and it appears to have a barrel longer than 6 inches. When he fires the revolver it certainly kicks like a magnum. I must admit, I have watched the movie a few times but the last time I saw it, it was most likely 15 or so years ago. Please forgive me if my memory fails me and my description is not accurate. 🔫
as a car gun, the 7-inch SAA makes sense, since driving tje Bentley would equate to a horse pistol while in the saddle. it would reach better than a .380 or 7.65, and have a sufficient bullet weight downrange. Also, like the j-frame, its point and click always. the SOE used a Webley .455.
Fleming's back history in 30AU is being made into a film. And he was also part of the planning of Operation Mincemeat. Fleming did not seem to have much personal combat experience during WW2.
According to a german weapons magazine years ago, Mr. Flemming was a man of gentry, but lowest possible rank. He was at q wellknown school or even university, but had no realy göod degree. He had officers training, but after becomming Lieutenant, he ended his service a few months later. He did before 1939 some trips to Germany, Switzerland and perhaps other Continental european countries. According to the magazine , Mr. Flemming was part of british Military Intelligence Service, but more as a Staff member, whos job it was, to visit the conferences, where British Armed Forces, Intelligence Services, Police and for example, British Railway or Postal Service... coordinated their actions. So Mr. Flemming was involved in MI , and knew, how Commandos, Spies , Intelligence/ Secret operations worked/ had been done, but more as a Staff/administration memnber.
Speaking of mysterious Bond guns, here's a question that I'm not sure has ever been asked before. As we know, the first James Bond Gunbarrel for 'Dr No' moment was done with stuntman Bob Simmons and filmed through the barrel of Smith & Wesson .357 calibre revolver. But the question is... what gun does Simmons fire? Naturally you'd assume he's firing Bond's Walther PPK (or PP as the case may be) but if you look closely before he turns and fires, you can just make out a long, thin barrel that looks like it should belong to a revolver rather than a PPK. John Kitzmiller as Quarrel uses a Colt Police Positive in 'Dr No' so maybe Simmons borrowed it from him. Food for thought.
Of the pistols discussed, the Colt M1917 .45 revolver (5.5-inch barrel) is Fleming's most likely "car gun". Fleming tends to write from experience and occasionally relies on outside experts for details (see Pearson's 1996 biography). Fleming entered Royal Navy service in 1939, and the US Government sent the Royal Navy large numbers of M1917 revolvers the following year. Since Fleming was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve in July 1939, he may have seen, if not trained with the M1917 revolver during his Navy service. The M1917 revolver was also issued to commandos and Special Operations Executive personnel, which would be another opportunity for Fleming to encounter the M1917.
In my mind's eye, the long barrelled Colt was a wheel gun. Bond was a bit older In the books and was quite nostalgic as proven by his love of the "pre-war" Bentley. It also wouldn't surprise me if the gun was replaced at some point as his Bentley he stored it in was heavily damaged more than once.
When did the Commander version of the M1911 show up? Could Fleming had been using a colloquial British description to differentiate between the shorter barreled Commander compared to the longer barreled Government?
Not being a gun guy, he may have thought the Commander was also in .45 and so coined the long barrel phrase himself. Or he misremembered and thought the shorter Commander is what he used in the war years before and the original M1911 was a longer barreled variant.
Fleming and bond both come from an era when there was a suspicion that Auto pistols (like the 1911 .45) were prone to jamming, making them less 'safe' than a Single or double action revolver. The Long barrelled Colt was a backup gun, on reserve for emergencies, so the guarantee of action the wheel gun offered was a certain bonus, making it the best candidate for that use. An automatic, like a 1911, would be Bond's choice if sheer firepower was needed, but Bond prided himself on his accuracy; so a smaller caliber piston, like a .25, .32, or .38, being easier to conceal and carry, was his preference. the smaller calibers would be easier to carry a few spare magazines, two .32 magazines would provide 10 - 12 rounds, as opposed to a .45 offering only 8. Fleming was no firearm specialist (that's what Armorer sergeants were for!), he wrote fast and with few references. He imagines situations, with no chances to review or correct scenes that 'read' right.
The revolvers actually make sense when you consider the car he keeps them in. The Blower Bentley he drives in the books is a huge, powerful (for the time) prewar car from about 1930 (that’s just a couple years after the Ford Model T ended production.) Fleming (and Bond) had an affinity for these sort of burly, old things from another era.
If I recall correctly, John Gardner, who wrote additional Bond novels, did a better job with the guns. I remember a lengthy discussion on upgrading form the PPK and a revolver being considered.
It is worth noting that while the 1911 certainly didn't get referred to as a long barrel, there actually were 3 different lengths of barrel available and the standard that we think of is the longest.
Authors and movie producers always screw up the gun issue unless they hire a firearms expert. Elmore Leonard in at least two novels talks about taking the safety off a SW revolver. I got bored and wrote a murder mystery during COVID and I did get the guns right. heh.
This question about Bond's car gun has bothered me since I read Casino Royale in elementary school in the 60s. I admit that the subsequent mention of a manual safety in the short story does make it possible that Fleming was thinking of a 1911 when he wrote Casino Royale, but I have always believed Bond's car gun in that book was a Colt double action. There would be no sense is mentioning that it was a "long barreled" Colt if it was a 1911, because the 1911 came in only one barrel length, 5 inch, until the Commander was introduced in 1949, and it was only 3/4" shorter. The Colt New Service, in 45 Colt, 45 ACP and ,455, was made with 4, 4½, 5, 5½, 6, and 7½ inch barrels, so it would have made more sense to mention a long barrel in order to accurately describe the handgun. My heart broke when the Bentley was destroyed a few paragraphs later, but then I screamed "What happened to the Colt?" There is an interesting parallel in Spectre, when Bond attempts to arm his girlfriend with a spare handgun he has aboard the train, a Sig 226 9mm. The 226 is a full size service weapon and, compared to his PPK, the 226 is a "heavy handgun."
I always pictured the SAA. I wouldn't get it past Fleming (not a gun guy) to confuse safety catch and hammer on revolver. So leaving the safety catch up might have been keeping the SAA uncocked.
One line of inquiry is to see how British commandos often referred to Colt 1911s. They may have indeed referred to them as “45 Army”, similar to how American forces often referred to Garands as “a 30 cal”.
I read the Bond books in the early '60's, and visualized the DA Colt, since Bond would have run across them in WWII as issue or Lend-Lease. Just my two cents.
Bond's "Long barreled .45 Colt" has long intrigued me. So I like this discussion. And I admit the safety catch reference is convincing. But I would make three points: 1) The M1909 was the US Army version of the Colt New Service Revolver. Which was available commercially with barrels upto 7.5". 2) The Colt Commander was only introduced after WW2. So to a Briton of the Fleming's, or Bond's, generation the M1911 was not "a long barreled .45" 3) Fleming did not found 30AU. He was just one of several intelligence officers (RN, Army, and RAF) who propsed the formation of raiding units to seize enemy documents and technolgy, beyond the front lines.
The revolver in the car would make sense since if he’s got to shoot there no hot brass cases would fly around in the confined space during driving - then again, Bond likely would aim out the side window. Although, in Moonraker he flattened the Bentley’s windshield, maybe he intended to shoot Drax’ tires just pointing across the bonnet…? Anyway, when I was young I pictured the 1911, nowadays I tend more towards a revolver. Also, in From a View to a Kill (where Bond leaves the safety up) he’s in Paris and not travelling with his own car. I doubt he’s packed his car-gun in his suitcase when he’s usually carrying the Walther and the S&W (see The Spy Who Loved Me novel). The more convincing explanation would be that the .45 Colt is a loan like the BSA and the uniform. Therefore it’s an automatic and probably a model Bond isn’t as familiar with as he was with his Beretta or Walther. Just my 2 cents, gentlemen. Hugely entertaining video and I’ll be sure to pick up a copy of this book. Cheers!
Interesting factoid. Christopher Lee was the step-cousin of Ian Fleming and the two knew each other socially. Some authors think that Fleming incorporated elements of Lee into Bond. Lee was in the RAF but disqualified from flying during training and usually served in intelligence roles. At one point he did say that he had served in Special Forces (allegedly the LRDG - he was based in Africa) who used - the 1911A1 as the sidearm of preference ! At one point during filming Lord of the Rings Peter Jackson was explaining to Lee that in one scene where Saruman is stabbed in the back, how he wanted him to react. Lee commented “Have you any idea what kind of noise happens when someone is stabbed in the back ? Because I do….”.
I'm pretty sure Fleming intended for the car gun to be the revolver. It was common practice for covert operators before the millennium to keep a large calibre revolver available for combat situations, while carrying a small calibre pistol on their person for PDW purposes. The Manuhrin (France), Colt Model 66 (Germany), Colt Combat Commander (Sweden) and Colt Python (Spain) were all common at the time. Agents of the United Kingdom even carried Webley Double Action long into the 20th century for under cover operations all around the world.
I read the original novels back in the 60s when I was a teenager. Even then I noticed these inconsistencies. I felt that the "car gun" was a Colt SAA, at least, in part, because it was available in several barrel lengths. Thus, the appellation, "long barrel" makes more sense. The 1911, I think, is the least likely. Why would you refer to it as a long barrel when there was only one barrel length available. Would the Commandos in Fleming's past have referred to it as a long barrel? I doubt it. I also noticed the discrepancy of trying to put a PPK in a Berns Martin Triple Draw holster, a real screw up.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
The thought of James Bond carrying around like a 12" Colt SAA while Big Iron plays in the background is my new favorite thought for the day lol
"Big Iron but in posh English accent"
Is that a colt in yer pocket ?
To the town of Agua Fria drove a stranger one fine day...
"He might have gone on living, but he made one fatal slip - when he captured Bond, told him his plan, and locked him in a burning building without taking away his wristwatch"
You man "Large Ferrous Object in my hand"....
I wouldn't put it past Bond to have some kind of long-slide 1911 made for a 'heavy combat pistol' kept in his personal vehicle. As a 1960s equivalent to a Mk23.
This was my thought too. A longer slide
Wouldn't even need to be a longslide, the existing slide with a longer barrel does work, it looks freaking weird. But this fits the best.
Definitely.
But long slide 1911s were not much of a thing in the 50s and early 60s.
@@frosty3693 Could easily have simply meant the government length.
The other possibility that popped into my mind (except for the manual safety) was the Colt version of the US Army Model 1917 revolver using .45ACP in moonclips.
The 1917 service revolver Colt made for the US was based on the WWI military contracts from the UK amd Canada for simplified Colt New Service revolvers in .455 Webley. They were also made in the British caliber for the commercial market in barrels as long as 7.5", and were not unpopular "private purchase" pistols for British and Canadian officers prior to the changeover to the .380/200 cartridge in the interior period. As late as WWII, you still encountered some officers carrying them.
@@geodkyt Yes, I used to own one of the Canadian military stamped Colt New Services in .455 as well as Mountie-marked ones in .455 and .45 Colt (the RNWMP used both calibres). My recollection is the two police guns had 5.5" barrels while the CEF one was 6". My CEF-marked S&W in .455 also had a 6" barrel.
I was thinking M1917 because Fleming explicitly said .45 Colt instead of .455 Webley.
I was thinking A Colt New Army in .455
@screwtape2713 I have one that was professionally shortened to 4"
Likely because of muzzle crown damage
“Moonraker” clips
As a european i can say that when we say "colt 45" unless you are a gun nerd we are talking about the Colt 1911. Also, when you look at the profile of european (mainly french, german, belgian and british) revolvers of that era, they tend to have a shorter barrel than US made ones. Compared to a 1917 army revolver, the barrel of a Webley feels shorter (even if it is not true).
Just my 2 cents 😁
The argument made for the 1911 is pretty strong!
While an American would ask which one, .45 Colt or .45 ACP? The 1873 revolver cartridge or the 1911 Colt Army Auto?
When I was growing up as a kid in the US in the 60's, a Colt .45 was always a single action colt used by cowboys in the movies. Most of us kids didn't know about the 1911 at the time.
And here I was thinking a colt 45 was a cheap way to get drunk
@@megazombiekiller9000 or a violent way to get rid of an headache 🤣
@@srellison561 While my father was an Army reservist, and my maternal Grandfather was an NRA member. I am a bit too young for the peak of cowboy movies.
I remember as a kid reading James Bond books and wondering why some areas were so detailed, while other areas were just vague. I asked my parents about this and I was told to use my imagination to fill it in! This was at the same time I was reading the first couple of Jerry Ahern's 'The Survivalist' series of books!
It's similar to many American writers. They'll leave things they don't know about vague. So many writers will just say the character has a "military carbine". Is it an M1 Carbine or M16? No further detail
im so glad someone else remembers the Survivalist. ive been trying to get a full set for years
This may represent the expertise of whoever at the publishers edited the text. Unlikely to be the same person twice.
@@johnburrill2625 I enjoyed those novels. Don't miss out the 'Midwake' special.
My dad collected the Mack Bolan Executioner books, so my older brother and I read them all as well. They suffered the same issue with some some parts of the books being very detailed (if incorrect) while other parts were more vague.
I want to say in the John Gardner run of Bond novels (some of which I think are good enough to become movies) he upgraded it to a Ruger Black Hawk in 44 Magnum
The .44 magnum was Boothroyd's favorite gun, so he might have suggested it to Fleming who not being a gun guy translated it as a .45 Colt ...
@@rotwang2000 The Boothroyd connection here isn't relevant, as he didn't come into the picture until the writing of FRWL, the Colt appears in 1953's CASINO ROYALE, five novels earlier.
I am actually reading the first Gardner novel (License Renewed) and his car gun is definitely referred to as a .44 Ruger Blackhawk.
@@andrewhopkins1010 I remember that and that Gardner went through a few guns like the Browning 1903, the HK VP70 and P7 and then he settled on the ASP. While I haven't read all of Gardner's run, I thought he did a decent job keeping Bond relevant for the 1980s/early 90s though you could tell the movies had influenced him
That is in the book but why in the wlrld.KS it not a 44 magnum Ruger Red hawk with double action?
Caleb correctly identified the short story "From a view to a kill" , in which Fleming indicates that the "long barrel colt" has a safety catch. If I remember corectly, he had some spare magazines for it in "The spy who loved me" story. I can't wait until my deluxe version of the book arrives! Thank you guys for doing the book and the video series.
I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS VIDEO! I first read Moonraker when I was an eighteen year old with a bright red Triumph sportscar and I used to love reading about Bond and his magnificent Bentley. In my imagination as a teenager, I always imagined his "long barrel Colt" to be a revolver - but I was a little English boy and didn't have much of an idea.
Still have the Triumph?
@@Dregkar Sadly not! But when I moved to America I had a string of old Lincolns I nicknamed "The Locomotive" in honor of Bond's Bentley. I love old cars.
Didn't Drax run a kid in a red Triumph off the road during the climactic chase in "Moonraker"? I seem to recall it had something written on the side, like "Red Bomber" or something. What model did you have? I once bought a Triumph Spitfire off of Ebay and fixed it up only to have it give up the ghost on me on my way to the airport to pick up a friend. My plan was, as I was moving to Tennessee, to get one of the local boys to put in a Ford V-6 in the car, but, it was not to be (sigh).
@@varanid9 Oh wow, a Spitfire with a V8 would have been a BEAST! I had a TR7, but I also had a Triumph Spitfire later, and an MGB GT. On the occasions they run right, British sports cars are such fun
My favorite Bond moment is when he upgraded to a super high power .38 special revolver. A weapon only eclipsed in power by modern weapons like the Desert Eagle.
.38 special used to be a lot spicier back in the day, but the pressure limits were revised down* around 1970.
With old .38 special loads you could reliably expand to .65 inch with great penetration. This was a time when getting any auto-loading cartridge (9mm or .45) to reliably expand was only for custom reloads. It was a damn good option at the time.
*This was due to various reasons like a proliferation of weak .38 special revolvers and debates over how to convert from CUP to PSI. Plus, so many just wanted a .38 snubnose where all that power was wasted or they wanted a low recoil target load.
The industry attitude was "just buy a .357 mag if you don't like it"
Q telling Bond, it only holds five shots, but when those five are gone, everybody is dead! And then laughs, until he notices Bond and M aren't laughing!
But it could also be eclipsed by .357 and .44 magnum that would come out not too long after .38 super
@@Treblaine How can there be debate over math? Math is universal and exact and always works the same regardless of the time and period.
The British 38/200 was a version if 38 S& W.
So .38 Special was a hot load. When Dr No was written.
I always figured he had one of the .455 Webley Colt New Service revolvers made for the Canadian and British trade (primarily private purchase by officers prior to WWII).
To a WWII vet used to Enfield .380/200 service revolvers, a 5" or 6" Colt New Service would definately present as "long barrelled".
The commandos also frequently used the Colt New Service and the Smith & Wesson Triple Lock in .455 Webley/Eley --I agree completely this makes the most sense. I have a .455 Webley chambered (marked .455 Eley) Colt New Service that has provenance to a soldier who carried it during service with the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group). So I think this makes the most sense. The gun is also quite a large frame and feels very large/long by comparison to a ppk.
That would make a ton of sense, excellent comment.
@@OxfordWineCircle But no manual safety.
I was thinking the same thing.
@@dwaneanderson8039 He wasn't a gun guy. He could have been referring to the hammer as a 'safety' and meaning to say "he left the hammer in DA, so as not to accidentally shoot in single action". I understand that is backwards to how we would actually say it. As gun people we say the hammer is "down" when it isn't cocked because we are referencing it's position relative to the primer, however it would not be a stretch for someone unfamiliar to see that it is physically up in that position and physically down in the cocked position and flip the terms.
There is another option - the Colt M1917 Revolver. Chambered for .45 ACP, with the cartridges carried in 3 round Half Moon clips (So that you can get a rimless cartridge to work in a revolver). As a side note, the use of the Clips make the M1917 the fastest reload in a revolver until the development of the Speedloader.
They're good shooters, too.
Ians shown pre WWI speedloaders for Webley revolvers.
Yep, same thought occurred here. Those M1917 revolvers were abundant in British use during WW2.
It's always possible that the long-barrelled Colt is a custom build, just for him. That would enable it to be the 1909 double action model in the lockwork and cylinder, but long in the tube and not matching to anything particular in actual history.
I mean he IS the governments "BEST" spy, despite being absolutely famous and utterly unable to go without being noticed...
It is also possible that "long-barrelled Colt" means "a long barreleld gun, which is a colt" as in describing it as having a longer barrel than the Webley revolvers his british audience was familliar with, and not being a reference to a colt with a longer barrel than the standard model!
@@svenblubber5448 That makes more sense, actually.
@@svenblubber5448 I'm surprised there was no argument being made that the long-barreled .45 Colt is literally a customized 1911 with a longer barrel/slide, iirc those were a thing in the sporting sector and it would make a lot of sense for a super-cool super-spy to have a suped-up version of "the best pistol ever" as their difficult-to-conceal car gun, no? Plus it would look badass for Bond to have, not just a 1911, but a HONKIN 1911 with custom sights and all the works in his hands when he's transitioning from his vehicle into a high-stakes scenario that requires it.
@@svenblubber5448 Also, if he used a 1911, those came in three barrel lengths, with 5" being the longest model. So by long-barreled he may simply have meant that he chose the longest barrel option.
When I first read the discrimination of the long barrel Colt, I pictured the SSA, but pointing out the safety description and the 20AU connection is significant evidence in the argument for the 1911, not to mention a compelling argument for acquiring a copy of your book, which I am looking forward to.
cheers, thank you!
30 AU, later 30 Commando. *
As someone who has read all the flemming 007 novels, I've noticed an odd pattern where flemming is more likely to call a gun by the name of the manufacturer, this being an obvious example being a "Colt", another being the "Spandau" machine guns used by the goons in Dr. No or the "Remington" rifle he uses in the same novel
That's British culture, such as may be
I'm starting to think that's a British thing in general given the British Army to still refer to M16 rifles as _Armalites._
Very British
A few years ago Lindybeige got into a pissing match with commenters over his stubborn insistence on calling the MG-42 the "Spandau", so this is definitely a British thing.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Interesting.
that duck collection is awesome, this guy knows what's up!
Forgotten Ducks.
Got any grapes?
Good discussion! Interesting. Keep up the excellent work!
As a counterpoint a big revolver would make sense for a backup gun that was stored loaded in a car or some such in case of an emergency. I know back in the 60s and 70s I was always told you never kept the magazine of a gun loaded because the spring would take a set and could cause jamming. Revolvers were preferred for that because they didn’t have that problem. I know that’s changed in modern times but this would probably still be the thinking back then.
But once a “safety” is mentioned that throws revolvers out the window because they generally don’t have manual safeties in the first place.
There are a very few revolvers with safeties, mostly mandated by people who didn't know enough to have an opinion. A heavier weapon in your car definitely makes sense. Its why most police officers have some sort of rifle or shotgun in their cars.
@@alexsis1778 He also could have just been referring to the hammer as a 'safety' and was saying he left the gun in double action so it didn't accidentally go off.
This is the same author who though .25ACP was a viable combat round. I would suspect he really didn't actually know much about guns
@@MandolinMagi Eh, all those guys that carried 45s in ww2 came home and bought .25acp, 32acp, and .38 revolvers for concealed carry. Vasily Blohkin use a .25acp Walther to kill over 7000 people in 28 days so it will do the job. The role of a gun like that and the way Bond used it was getting a gun in to places where most people won't. For jobs that required more firepower he brought more firepower.
I'd be inclined to discount the possibility of the Single-action Army if only because it's single-action. If the point of having the gun in the car is to be able to use it while driving, single-action takes more of the shooter's attention than something double-action or auto-loading. Doing that while driving could be problematic.
Another argument against a Colt New Service derivative is that the .455 Webley-chambered model was an acceptable model for British officers to purchase for personal carry in lieu of a Webley revolver, and available in such numbers and for so many decades that if Bond as a former Commando and officer had experience with a Colt-produced revolver in this caliber range, it very likely would have been a .455 Webley cartridge. Such a pistol would have satisfied the 'old west' feel with a revolver while still being familiar to a character with Bond's background and presumably having ready access to ammunition.
The Colt Government Model M1911 to me makes sense with the "long barrel" designation if it's 5" barrel is compared to models for officers or generals that had shorter 4 1/4" or 3 1/2" barrels, particularly in light of the references to a safety. Plus there should have been sufficient ammunition available both after WWII and with a continued American presence in Europe after the war, .45ACP would be easy to come by. Even if stowed unchambered ("Condition 3") it would only be an extra step the first time to chamber a round, or if it's method of stowage is designed well, stowed with a round chambered, cocked, and safety on ("Condition 1") for quick draw and use without having to take an extra step while driving.
The magazine spring fatigue thing is a concern, but if Bond is getting sufficient range-time then he should be practicing with all of the weapons that he owns and realistically expects to use, including the weapon stowed in his car.
When I first read the Bond novels when I was a teenager I thought of this as a long-slide 1911, like the AMT Hardballer I had seen in Guns&Ammo. But of course that hadn't been created yet. Given he gets a S&W revolver in Dr. No I later reassessed the 'long barrel Colt' to be a Model 1917 and the safety catch issue to be a Flemming artistic misnomer or some weird Q-Branch modification...
Maybe T-800 brought longslide 1911 from the future stashed in his butt.
There were custom built long slides before the hardball.
@@fredbecker607 Cool! Didn't know that.
This was my thought too, but I have no idea when 6 inch plus barrels became available on the 1911. Of course, I'm sure Q Branch could have come up with one at any time...
I like Caleb a lot. I always enjoy watching people who are extremely knowledgeable about the minutiae of an incredibly niche subject matter do their thing.
Interesting stuff. I like the bottle of bore solvent on the table.
Oh my gosh, I admire your deep intertextual analysis of "what did the author mean"? I also once wondered what "heavy Spanish browning" meant in another author's book. And after analysis, I understood.
I have always found it odd that Fleming wasn't a "gun guy" and the model 1911 colt just feels right based on Fleming's back ground in life.
My assumption is that people in his social class probably knew a thing or two about shotguns, and possibly nitro express-style safari rifles - but pistols, not so much.
@@AshleyPomeroyHis social class made up significant portion if not the majority of the officer corps, so knowing a thing or two about pistols would be expected. Service rifles, perhaps not.
There is a distinction between knowing about guns in a professional capacity, as a soldier for example, and being a gun nerd.
Fleming clearly didn't consider the minutiae of exactly what model of gun bond had and the exact specs and capabilities of it as a particularly important or interesting part of the story he was trying to tell. He was much more interested in the high society lifestyle and espionage activities, so dedicated his research and wordcount towards those details.
A book that focuses on everything in excruciating detail would be awful to read. An author needs to make choices.
So, the most likely candidate is an M1911-styled handgun. Makes sense, given that the Bond novels were more or less set in the Cold War, with Britain (like every other nation) just fresh off the insanity of the Second World War. Wouldn't be surprised if his M1911 was modified in a similar capacity as Naked Snake's M1911 during Operation Snake Eater.
Bond: "It's a long barrel .45"
Big Boss: " *three minute infodump while Eva is just standing there thinking 'bruh i just grabbed a gun that was lying around wtf'* "
I am a huge fan of the literary Bond, and am building a collection of all the guns Fleming's Bond uses in the novels.
I have yet to get some of the ones he picks up from fallen enemies, but I have a complete set of all of his personal guns.
This was the same conclusion I came to about the .45 he keeps in his car - I'm sure it's a 1911 too.
I think the main point of contention is the 'Army Special' name.
That's quite easy to explain though. Fleming probably had a vague memory that there was a gun named the Colt Army Special, and simply got the names confuesed when he was describing the 1911.
The 1911 was made by Colt, and was the standard issue pistol of the US Army, so it's easy to see how such a mistake could happen.
As for the 'long barreled' part, it seems that Fleming describes all large handguns as 'long barreled', and all handguns with short barrels are described as having a 'sawn barrel', even if they came that way from the factory (like Tee Hee's Colt Detective Special with the 'sawn barrel').
I was thinking maybe he used "long barreled" to describe the Government model as by the time he was writing the books the shorter barreled Commander and Officer models were available, and were possibly more common in his circles.
But your reasoning for the "Army Special" name makes sense.
And its not like he could easily look it up on the internet. That world was so different back then.
@@lightningcat82 Exactly. Not only was Fleming not a firearms expert, but Bond isn't either really. He's very good at shooting, but he doesn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms.
For example, in The Spy Who Loved Me, Bond calls his revolver a "Smith and Wesson Police Positive'.
That’s why I love Jack Carr‘s books. There’s even a certain Ian from a RUclips channel listed in the credits for his content about forgotten weapons…😊
If you want to read about a 1950s to 1960s assassin and have the weapons well described I recommend the Matt Helm stories written by Donald Hamilton.
Love it when folks get into the esoteric weeds of a subject with such passion. Meaningless in the grand scheme of things...but very cool! :)
2 different rounds. .455 Webley for revolvers and .455 Webley for the Webley Self Loading Pistol & later the Colt 1911 .455.
To differentiate the two rounds, the .455 needed for semi auto weapons was commonly called "Long Colt".
Commander Bond was an orphan and held tightly to things from his past, like the old Bentley. I have no doubt the car gun was his old Navy issue Colt 1911 in .455 Webley.
This sounds pretty plausible
As I recall, the US usage was to distinguish .45 Colt and .45 Schofield, with .45 Colt getting the addition of .45 Long Colt, when there was no short Colt.
@@tomhalla426 It also tends to be called .45 Long Colt now to make clear that the person does NOT mean .45ACP.
The thing about the Single Action Army though is that it's the greatest handgun ever made. Six shots, more than enough to kill anything that moves. Though the engravings offer no tactical advantage whatsoever.
James Bonds are proud creatures. They prefer to hunt alone.
"You're pretty good" - 006
You're forgetting one more, very basic thing.
Greatest is kind of a stretch.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Go play "Metal Gear Solid" ;)
"Thish, ish the greatesht handgun ever made. The Colt Shingle Actshun Army. Shix bulletsh... more than enough to kill anything that movesh."
Great guest, great conversation.
The audio is much better this time. Good job. The plates in the book are great. Nailed it on the head 9 minutes in to say Flemming doesn't actually know much about guns himself.
I always assumed that Bond's car gun was there to stop a car with. In which case, a 45 Long Colt makes a lot more sense, as they can be loaded with hard nosed bullets at near-magnum pressures. When you absolutely need to penetrate an engine block... The Colt SAA makes a good platform for that kind of high-powered shooting, and would have been available in that era.
Gardner 📚 used the Ruger Black Hawk .44 single action. I think the 7.5" barrel format.
well, he certainly has his ducks in a row...
Roger Moore's Bond would be proud of this.
This guys level of nerdiness and pedantry is right up my alley
I love that Bentley Blower that he has. One of my favorite cars. I even have a Blipshift tshirt with that car.
The Colt Commander and Officer 1911 models came out in the early 1950s. Compared to those guns' 4.25 and 3.5-inch barrels, the standard 1911's 5-inch barrel is "long."
I like this guy, his hyper specific knowledge of James Bond lore and said guns is really neat! A truly ironic character.
I still remember finding a worn copy of The Spy Who Loved Me and The Wrecking Crew (Donald Hamilton) underneath the bunk I was told was mine back in 1976.
Never read a James Bond or Matt Helm book before and they started me reading a whole new genre of books.
It was definitely a Colt 1911 45 ACP. That was one of the most common pistols the British Army used in both world wars.
Long-Barrel AKA "Not a Commander"
From what I remember of the books.. there were two revolvers he was issued. One was long-barreled, the other had a shorter barrel. I recall reading that one or both had the cylinder specifically drilled for five rounds "to save weight" (which doesn't make sense to me).
Loving the bond vids.
He might have seen a picture of one of Jim Clark’s early 1911 long slides. As a long time customer of Clark Custom Guns going back four decades or so I remember reading that Jim Senior acquired a couple of barrels of 1911 slides that had been flame cut in half. They cost almost nothing and he figured out with some careful cutting, welding, and a custom 6” barrel he could make a long slide 1911.
Great work, thanks guys. I'm not a fan of guns actually but I love the 007 novels.
Bond is Christoper Lee.
I’m a huge fan of Ian and the original James Bond novels. I’ve always believed this gun to be a 1911.
What if it's was 1911 with threaded barrel? It's extended past barrel nut, so it's "long barrel", and option for suppressor is fitting for Bond.
The New Service (first shown in video) was nearly identical to the actual Colt Army Special except for size (look them up together), available with a 7 1/2 barrel and was VERY popular with British officers pre WW I. In fact, Gunwriter Leroy Thompson has several long barreled "Target" examples (at least one chambered in 45 Colt) documented by name to have been owned by individual British officers and marked as sighted in for specific target distances at the Bisley range. Those match ranges were 50-150 yards, meaning these were highly accurate, powerful (for the era) weapons that would 'reach out' if ambushed along a countryside roadway. Equally important, it wouldn't have seemed out of place in rural England or had a presence that screamed "SPY!" during the early Cold War era. (Yes it was huge, but any need for compactness kinda disappears when your "holster" is a Bentley...) But I've read all Fleming's novels and let's be honest; his gun knowledge sucked.
In Icebreaker, which I'm sure Caleb will discuss in his book, Bond utilizes a Ruger Super Blackhawk hidden underneath the dash of his Saab 911 Turbo (yes Bond drove a Saab in the early John Gardner novels, though he would trade that in for a Bentley Mulsanne Turbo) and firing through a hidden slot was able to kill a bad guy.
Gardner loved his Ruger revolvers! Greatest crime is the fact that Icebreaker features a Ruger and a P7, but Gardner opts to use the Ruger .44 in all the action scenes over Bond's 9mm.
@@commandobond Those Gardner novels absolutely stretched credulity. The funniest scene was in Brokenclaw where Bond is about to impersonate some guy and the FBI agent tells him, yeah he's about your age. Yeah 70s! 😂
7:46 He may have also gotten some of that insight from his own cousin, the legendary actor Christopher Lee, as he was also an SOE operative during WWII.
I love the story, in filming Lord of the Rings he gave feedback on the kind of noise someone makes when they get stabbed in the back. Something along the lines of they don’t scream out, it’s more like the breath being forced out of their body.
When I first read Casino Royal, I pictured the gun to be a 7in Colt SAA Revolver. I thought to myself “classic car, classic gun, it fits.” So, at least, for me that’s what it will always be.
I think a Colt New Service type revolver. It is 'long barrelled' compared to 4" or 2" models which would be considered more 'normal' length. I think calling it long is a vague description in the sense that a lay person would look at the revolver with a barrel poking out more than 4" as looking (and generally being) long. Also calling it a 'Army Special' is more referring to it as a Army revolver rather than the model name. I've found in literature and movies a lot of revolvers are called 'police special' or 'army special' referring to all double-action type revolvers that would be used by the police or army and not referring to the actual model names of that given by Colt to certain models (I've seen 'S&W .38 Police Special' many-a-times).
Colonel Urqhart (spelling) of the British paratroopers used a 1911 in Operation Market Garden. He was incidentally portrayed by Sean Connery in A Bridge Too Far.
In 1956, when the book "Diamonds Are Forever" was published, Las Vegas was still very much wrapped up in an Old West theme. Hotel/casinos like the Last Frontier and the Pioneer were all about cowboys and horses, and the SAA in 45 Colt would have fit in perfectly.
The description in fleming's books are a Colt 1911, Long Slide .45 ACP., and he also had a colt 2 inch Detective Special in .38 spec. that has a cut away trigger guard like Fleming was given by JE Hoover
In reading the novels I always understood the car gun to be a 1911. I probably felt that because in the post war period that pistol would be the most available, especially with both Bond and Felix being WW2 vets. That being said, the possibility of Bond and Indiana Jones both carrying M1917 revolvers is intriguing.
In one of the books (a Flemming novel I think) Bond had a Ruger .44 in a special concealed compartment under the dashboard of his car.
Note that the film studio wanted a promotional picture with a long barrel pistol. They couldnt find one quickly enough. Some one in the studio had a Walther airpistol, which has along barrel, so they used that for the photo that appeared on a famous James Bond poster.
I love gun nerds. Makes my day when two meet up and nerd out
Seeing as the 1911 came in distinct lengths like the government or the commander model it would make the most sense especially since bond already is comfortable with magazine fed weapons during a time when wheelguns were the most commonly trusted handgun types around.
I think in light of the No. 30 connection the full-sized 1911 is very likely the correct choice and "long barrel" might just be to differentiate the original from the Commander that would have come out in '50 and gaining popularity while Fleming was working on the novel that was released in '53.
I’ve always thought it interesting in the movie “Live and Let Die” Roger Moore has what appears to be a S&W model 29 .44 Magnum. He carries it in a shoulder holster and it appears to have a barrel longer than 6 inches. When he fires the revolver it certainly kicks like a magnum.
I must admit, I have watched the movie a few times but the last time I saw it, it was most likely 15 or so years ago.
Please forgive me if my memory fails me and my description is not accurate. 🔫
Indeed, he carries a chrome Model 29 in a Bianchi X15 shoulder holster in the climax of the film!
Up until he mentioned the manual safety I was thinking it was a model 1917 colt in .45 acp. There were a lot surplus and could be found easily.
Jim Clark Sr. was building 6" 1911 longslides by the late 1950s, and they would definitely be the sort of boutique gun I'd expect from James Bond.
The guns of James Bond... looking forward to seeing coverage of the BSA .22 Scorpion air pistol which featured in at least one JB movie poster. 🙂
Ok. You got me with the European pledge 🙄
Looking forward to receiving my first Headstamp publication. Painful but ... James Bond & guns! 😎🍸
as a car gun, the 7-inch SAA makes sense, since driving tje Bentley would equate to a horse pistol while in the saddle. it would reach better than a .380 or 7.65, and have a sufficient bullet weight downrange. Also, like the j-frame, its point and click always.
the SOE used a Webley .455.
Fleming's back history in 30AU is being made into a film. And he was also part of the planning of Operation Mincemeat. Fleming did not seem to have much personal combat experience during WW2.
According to a german weapons magazine years ago, Mr. Flemming was a man of gentry, but lowest possible rank. He was at q wellknown school or even university, but had no realy göod degree. He had officers training, but after becomming Lieutenant, he ended his service a few months later. He did before 1939 some trips to Germany, Switzerland and perhaps other Continental european countries. According to the magazine , Mr. Flemming was part of british Military Intelligence Service, but more as a Staff member, whos job it was, to visit the conferences, where British Armed Forces, Intelligence Services, Police and for example, British Railway or Postal Service... coordinated their actions. So Mr. Flemming was involved in MI , and knew, how Commandos, Spies , Intelligence/ Secret operations worked/ had been done, but more as a Staff/administration memnber.
There's already Spymaker: The Secret Life of Ian Fleming (TV Movie 1990), starring Jason Connery, of all people.
Speaking of mysterious Bond guns, here's a question that I'm not sure has ever been asked before. As we know, the first James Bond Gunbarrel for 'Dr No' moment was done with stuntman Bob Simmons and filmed through the barrel of Smith & Wesson .357 calibre revolver. But the question is... what gun does Simmons fire? Naturally you'd assume he's firing Bond's Walther PPK (or PP as the case may be) but if you look closely before he turns and fires, you can just make out a long, thin barrel that looks like it should belong to a revolver rather than a PPK. John Kitzmiller as Quarrel uses a Colt Police Positive in 'Dr No' so maybe Simmons borrowed it from him. Food for thought.
Of the pistols discussed, the Colt M1917 .45 revolver (5.5-inch barrel) is Fleming's most likely "car gun". Fleming tends to write from experience and occasionally relies on outside experts for details (see Pearson's 1996 biography). Fleming entered Royal Navy service in 1939, and the US Government sent the Royal Navy large numbers of M1917 revolvers the following year. Since Fleming was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve in July 1939, he may have seen, if not trained with the M1917 revolver during his Navy service. The M1917 revolver was also issued to commandos and Special Operations Executive personnel, which would be another opportunity for Fleming to encounter the M1917.
The Colt New Service came in a 7 1/2 " barrel, same as the SAA you showed.
In my mind's eye, the long barrelled Colt was a wheel gun. Bond was a bit older In the books and was quite nostalgic as proven by his love of the "pre-war" Bentley. It also wouldn't surprise me if the gun was replaced at some point as his Bentley he stored it in was heavily damaged more than once.
When did the Commander version of the M1911 show up? Could Fleming had been using a colloquial British description to differentiate between the shorter barreled Commander compared to the longer barreled Government?
1950. So quite possible.
Not being a gun guy, he may have thought the Commander was also in .45 and so coined the long barrel phrase himself. Or he misremembered and thought the shorter Commander is what he used in the war years before and the original M1911 was a longer barreled variant.
Fricking early gang checking in
checking in!
Bond does use a 1911 in film also, in World is not enough, Swiss banker scene.
That he does, and at the end of that movie too!
Fleming and bond both come from an era when there was a suspicion that Auto pistols (like the 1911 .45) were prone to jamming, making them less 'safe' than a Single or double action revolver.
The Long barrelled Colt was a backup gun, on reserve for emergencies, so the guarantee of action the wheel gun offered was a certain bonus, making it the best candidate for that use.
An automatic, like a 1911, would be Bond's choice if sheer firepower was needed, but Bond prided himself on his accuracy; so a smaller caliber piston, like a .25, .32, or .38, being easier to conceal and carry, was his preference. the smaller calibers would be easier to carry a few spare magazines, two .32 magazines would provide 10 - 12 rounds, as opposed to a .45 offering only 8.
Fleming was no firearm specialist (that's what Armorer sergeants were for!), he wrote fast and with few references. He imagines situations, with no chances to review or correct scenes that 'read' right.
The revolvers actually make sense when you consider the car he keeps them in. The Blower Bentley he drives in the books is a huge, powerful (for the time) prewar car from about 1930 (that’s just a couple years after the Ford Model T ended production.) Fleming (and Bond) had an affinity for these sort of burly, old things from another era.
If I recall correctly, John Gardner, who wrote additional Bond novels, did a better job with the guns. I remember a lengthy discussion on upgrading form the PPK and a revolver being considered.
It is worth noting that while the 1911 certainly didn't get referred to as a long barrel, there actually were 3 different lengths of barrel available and the standard that we think of is the longest.
Authors and movie producers always screw up the gun issue unless they hire a firearms expert. Elmore Leonard in at least two novels talks about taking the safety off a SW revolver. I got bored and wrote a murder mystery during COVID and I did get the guns right. heh.
This question about Bond's car gun has bothered me since I read Casino Royale in elementary school in the 60s. I admit that the subsequent mention of a manual safety in the short story does make it possible that Fleming was thinking of a 1911 when he wrote Casino Royale, but I have always believed Bond's car gun in that book was a Colt double action. There would be no sense is mentioning that it was a "long barreled" Colt if it was a 1911, because the 1911 came in only one barrel length, 5 inch, until the Commander was introduced in 1949, and it was only 3/4" shorter. The Colt New Service, in 45 Colt, 45 ACP and ,455, was made with 4, 4½, 5, 5½, 6, and 7½ inch barrels, so it would have made more sense to mention a long barrel in order to accurately describe the handgun. My heart broke when the Bentley was destroyed a few paragraphs later, but then I screamed "What happened to the Colt?"
There is an interesting parallel in Spectre, when Bond attempts to arm his girlfriend with a spare handgun he has aboard the train, a Sig 226 9mm. The 226 is a full size service weapon and, compared to his PPK, the 226 is a "heavy handgun."
Love the channel the kickstarter books arent my favorite
I always pictured the SAA. I wouldn't get it past Fleming (not a gun guy) to confuse safety catch and hammer on revolver. So leaving the safety catch up might have been keeping the SAA uncocked.
Colt sold these M1909 revolvers to Britain during WW1 in .455 Webley.
Gun nerdery combined with Bond nerdery - love it 😎
One line of inquiry is to see how British commandos often referred to Colt 1911s. They may have indeed referred to them as “45 Army”, similar to how American forces often referred to Garands as “a 30 cal”.
I read the Bond books in the early '60's, and visualized the DA Colt, since Bond would have run across them in WWII as issue or Lend-Lease. Just my two cents.
Bond's "Long barreled .45 Colt" has long intrigued me. So I like this discussion.
And I admit the safety catch reference is convincing.
But I would make three points:
1) The M1909 was the US Army version of the Colt New Service Revolver. Which was available commercially with barrels upto 7.5".
2) The Colt Commander was only introduced after WW2. So to a Briton of the Fleming's, or Bond's, generation the M1911 was not "a long barreled .45"
3) Fleming did not found 30AU. He was just one of several intelligence officers (RN, Army, and RAF) who propsed the formation of raiding units to seize enemy documents and technolgy, beyond the front lines.
I read a handful of the novels when I was in junior high school and I always assumed that it was a Single Action Army.
Gardner was a Royal Marine. He had 007 tote a Ruger .44magnum single action.
The revolver in the car would make sense since if he’s got to shoot there no hot brass cases would fly around in the confined space during driving - then again, Bond likely would aim out the side window.
Although, in Moonraker he flattened the Bentley’s windshield, maybe he intended to shoot Drax’ tires just pointing across the bonnet…?
Anyway, when I was young I pictured the 1911, nowadays I tend more towards a revolver. Also, in From a View to a Kill (where Bond leaves the safety up) he’s in Paris and not travelling with his own car. I doubt he’s packed his car-gun in his suitcase when he’s usually carrying the Walther and the S&W (see The Spy Who Loved Me novel). The more convincing explanation would be that the .45 Colt is a loan like the BSA and the uniform. Therefore it’s an automatic and probably a model Bond isn’t as familiar with as he was with his Beretta or Walther.
Just my 2 cents, gentlemen. Hugely entertaining video and I’ll be sure to pick up a copy of this book.
Cheers!
a big heavy service revolver does make sense for the 1950s books but also a browning hipower would have been more cutting edge
Ive always read it was as the 1917 .45 revolver. Moonraker is my favorite 007 novel.
No expert but a couple of times talking with Brits stateside, they said Colt 45, I said 1911 talking about the same thing.
Interesting factoid. Christopher Lee was the step-cousin of Ian Fleming and the two knew each other socially. Some authors think that Fleming incorporated elements of Lee into Bond. Lee was in the RAF but disqualified from flying during training and usually served in intelligence roles. At one point he did say that he had served in Special Forces (allegedly the LRDG - he was based in Africa) who used - the 1911A1 as the sidearm of preference ! At one point during filming Lord of the Rings Peter Jackson was explaining to Lee that in one scene where Saruman is stabbed in the back, how he wanted him to react. Lee commented “Have you any idea what kind of noise happens when someone is stabbed in the back ? Because I do….”.
The Colt Commander came out in 1949 with a shorter slide and barrel. (and a lightweight frame)
Maybe it inspired the distinction...?
In the later 007 🍸 novels by John Gardner Bond often totes a big .44magnum Ruger Blackhawk DA revolver. Q said it could crack engines, stop cars 🚗.
@ForgottenWeapons >>> Great video...👍
I'm pretty sure Fleming intended for the car gun to be the revolver. It was common practice for covert operators before the millennium to keep a large calibre revolver available for combat situations, while carrying a small calibre pistol on their person for PDW purposes. The Manuhrin (France), Colt Model 66 (Germany), Colt Combat Commander (Sweden) and Colt Python (Spain) were all common at the time. Agents of the United Kingdom even carried Webley Double Action long into the 20th century for under cover operations all around the world.
I read the original novels back in the 60s when I was a teenager. Even then I noticed these inconsistencies. I felt that the "car gun" was a Colt SAA, at least, in part, because it was available in several barrel lengths. Thus, the appellation, "long barrel" makes more sense. The 1911, I think, is the least likely. Why would you refer to it as a long barrel when there was only one barrel length available. Would the Commandos in Fleming's past have referred to it as a long barrel? I doubt it. I also noticed the discrepancy of trying to put a PPK in a Berns Martin Triple Draw holster, a real screw up.