You guys are a number one reason to fly over from Germany directly to Minneapolis and see how you are working. So great that you share your knowledge and don't hide it. That is gold for the coffee industry, together we are stronger, and hopefully our coffee gets better 😃
Thank you for your devotion to make good coffee for roater and barista all over the world. especially this chapter is nice for me. thank you very much.
An amazing and invaluable resource! Almost all the comments are already saying this so I'll keep mine short, thank you for presenting all this in such a clear, concise, and thorough manner. On to the next episode!
this is REALLY good information! joe and dave do an excellent job, especially with this being unscripted. don't miss these important nuggets of truth. i have mis-roasted (is that a word?), and thrown away, a lot of good beans over the years because i didn't have this type of information. very good content!
Thanks very much for this. It is frankly way beyond my ability to understand but I do appreciate hearing it, and I think some of it will be useful to me. It's so very complicated! But you do a good job of presenting it.
One topic or discussion that I would like - (as Joe explains the technical stuff so well) out-gassing. What is this - technically? Keeping freshly roasted coffee in mason jars with tight seal - I have had coffee (I roasted) that has never produced out gassing - Is that a sign of a defect in roasting or coffee bean itself? Why do some coffees out gas for days, and others for 1 or 2? Again does this mean anything? OR does this provide insight of my roasting process? Behmor drum roaster. EXCELLENT 3-part education - I have learned so much and Joe is such a great teacher.
Hello gentlemen, receive kind regards from Nicaragua. I am a coffee grower and a local buyer, that wants to learn more about the roasting process. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I would love to visit your campus soon.
WOW!!! Joe Marocco, you rock! I've learned more in this video than I have listening to hours of home roasting "experts". I'm a little unclear on the two ROR curves at the end of the video. One for home roasting I get, but the one for production roasting seems impossible. How do you make that little dip at the end with all that thermal mass or thermal inertia behind you. Are you tweaking the air or the gas? and is that responsive enough? You were talking about the magnification effect of espresso: the roasts I've been doing are great pour-overs, but the espresso is "explosively" flavorful. Being Roman - the home of stretto shots - I have my deLonghi Magnifica turned to almost minimum water, very fine grind, and max amount of beans. These settings work well with roastery coffee but maybe I'm pushing the home roast flavor too far. I never dreamed that in 14 roasts my coffee is far superior to what I was buying pre-roasted. I bought Sumatran mostly before, so I tried buying the same exact coffee green (SWP) and mine is so much more flavorful! Love roasting, even in my lightly heated Colorado garage. Thanks for your videos. I will be taking many more notes. PS Dave, you're a good interviewer. Thanks.
what is your thoughts about DTR? Scott Rao recommended the DTR should be between 20-25%. Also, I heard a lot about the maximum temperature hovering around around 207-209C (404F to 408F), but I noticed that the beans are still very light roast despite that it has been subjected to about 2-3 minutes after first crack. Honestly, I am quite dislike it, sometimes I do feel a little grassy and little sour too. So, I prefer to increase the development temperature to about 215-220C (419 to 428F)for about 2 minutes so that I can get a much better aroma when grinding it, and less puckery taste in espresso.
Thank you for this material! It is very helpful. I would like to ask if there is a way to limit coffee oiling while roasting darker? Can we affect our roasting to have dark roasted coffee yet without abundant oil spots?
thanks for your efforts guys . please can you explain to me how can i reach dark roast ( charring taste ) with easiest way ( fast jump or slow jump to sc ) with keeping nice characteristics of coffee .
Hello - I love this content and you have an excellent way of teaching some complex processes. I am working my way through all your clips very slowly :) So, would you mind taking a step back (Joe and Dave) taking your Mill City Roasters Cap off and recommending a home roaster to a complete beginner who wants a hands on approach tool with the best abilities / potential for learning the roasting process please? Most definitely under 1kg:) Please note, I am in New Zealand and we have limited access (domestic) to all this incredible hardware without having to import ourselves and pay taxes / duties etc on Import. Would a Hottop be a god starting point?? What about the Aillio? Thanks if you can help me out - Cheers!
Hey guys, the theory about brazilian natural coffee is incorrect. Actually, the natural process difficult the germination process in Brazil ...because the process use high temperature and breaks down the germination process.... The washed process guarantee 95% power germination ... and most of washed beans in central america or africa is too dense. In our farm in Brazil we uses the germination process to improve de density.... Our land is located at 750m above sea level and, yes, we have density. The conception is, if you have seeds with power of germination preserved these seeds are life ... In post harvest if you use high temperature to dry coffee, the germination is aborted. Tha´s why any brazilian coffees are lower density...
I've only come across one shop that did not blend their espresso, and kept it single origin shots for espresso based drinks like dave referred to. I am curious to see how much more popular or how unpopular this will stay/become in the future.
On the topic of the ROR after FC: how would you approach the roast if eveytime after FC the ROR plummets then as it gains energy yo get the lick of death and the roast runs away? I've tried increasing/decreasing gas in different increments throughout the roast, tried multiple charge temperatures and even reduced batch size but nothing seems to help stop the lick of death
Ditto. I second this question. Our roasts all really want to flick at the end, so making the roast go longer seems pretty impossible without getting that or just totally baking the coffee.
Good information. Always enjoy watching you guys. I was unable to watch live. Is there a way to know when the next live show will be? I do have more questions. Thanks guys, and please keep up the good work.
Question on how (in your experience) roasts taken into second crack align with some of Scott Rao's suggestions in his book: Do you find that darker roasts require higher DTR than 25%? I have trouble maintaining a declining ROR after 1C AND keeping DTR under 25% when executing a roast taken to a rolling 2C, for example. Maybe I just need to enter 1C with more momentum/higher ROR?
You are correct. Too flat of an ROR going into FC will stretch that roast forever. Try a bit more momentum goiing into FC. Yes, darker roasts invariably will give you a DTR above 25%. Inherent in the action you are doing. I don't think they align with Rao as it is very doubtful he is drinking 2nd crack coffee or referring to it.
Word. Rao wrote that his 20-25% rule applies mostly to medium light/medium dark roasting (already frustratingly vague, I know), so when we hit 2nd crack that rule starts to not apply anymore. Additionally, I find that with light roasting (just out of first crack), on delicate coffees like Yirgs, if I try to hit 20-25%, roast character overcomes origin character. I find the best ratio to be around 15% actually.
This is fascinating. I’m a home roaster using the Gene Cafe roaster. You have inspired me to be a bit more experimental. Thank you so much.
You guys are a number one reason to fly over from Germany directly to Minneapolis and see how you are working. So great that you share your knowledge and don't hide it. That is gold for the coffee industry, together we are stronger, and hopefully our coffee gets better 😃
Thank you for your devotion to make good coffee for roater and barista all over the world. especially this chapter is nice for me. thank you very much.
I'm glad I came across this almost 4 years later - great info
An amazing and invaluable resource! Almost all the comments are already saying this so I'll keep mine short, thank you for presenting all this in such a clear, concise, and thorough manner.
On to the next episode!
this is REALLY good information! joe and dave do an excellent job, especially with this being unscripted. don't miss these important nuggets of truth. i have mis-roasted (is that a word?), and thrown away, a lot of good beans over the years because i didn't have this type of information. very good content!
Thanks very much for this. It is frankly way beyond my ability to understand but I do appreciate hearing it, and I think some of it will be useful to me. It's so very complicated! But you do a good job of presenting it.
One topic or discussion that I would like - (as Joe explains the technical stuff so well) out-gassing. What is this - technically? Keeping freshly roasted coffee in mason jars with tight seal - I have had coffee (I roasted) that has never produced out gassing - Is that a sign of a defect in roasting or coffee bean itself? Why do some coffees out gas for days, and others for 1 or 2? Again does this mean anything? OR does this provide insight of my roasting process? Behmor drum roaster. EXCELLENT 3-part education - I have learned so much and Joe is such a great teacher.
Hello gentlemen, receive kind regards from Nicaragua. I am a coffee grower and a local buyer, that wants to learn more about the roasting process. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I would love to visit your campus soon.
Really informative guys! Thank you so much for the information.
WOW!!! Joe Marocco, you rock! I've learned more in this video than I have listening to hours of home roasting "experts". I'm a little unclear on the two ROR curves at the end of the video. One for home roasting I get, but the one for production roasting seems impossible. How do you make that little dip at the end with all that thermal mass or thermal inertia behind you. Are you tweaking the air or the gas? and is that responsive enough?
You were talking about the magnification effect of espresso: the roasts I've been doing are great pour-overs, but the espresso is "explosively" flavorful. Being Roman - the home of stretto shots - I have my deLonghi Magnifica turned to almost minimum water, very fine grind, and max amount of beans. These settings work well with roastery coffee but maybe I'm pushing the home roast flavor too far. I never dreamed that in 14 roasts my coffee is far superior to what I was buying pre-roasted. I bought Sumatran mostly before, so I tried buying the same exact coffee green (SWP) and mine is so much more flavorful! Love roasting, even in my lightly heated Colorado garage.
Thanks for your videos. I will be taking many more notes. PS Dave, you're a good interviewer. Thanks.
You're really not tweaking anything. You're just riding it out as the coffee takes on heat faster as the seed expands.
I am very enjoyed with lecture
TY
The FC is at ~ 180C, right? So how fast should the bean temperature graph become flat after the first crack?
PS thank you for the RSO episodes!
what is your thoughts about DTR? Scott Rao recommended the DTR should be between 20-25%. Also, I heard a lot about the maximum temperature hovering around around 207-209C (404F to 408F), but I noticed that the beans are still very light roast despite that it has been subjected to about 2-3 minutes after first crack. Honestly, I am quite dislike it, sometimes I do feel a little grassy and little sour too. So, I prefer to increase the development temperature to about 215-220C (419 to 428F)for about 2 minutes so that I can get a much better aroma when grinding it, and less puckery taste in espresso.
Thank you for this material! It is very helpful. I would like to ask if there is a way to limit coffee oiling while roasting darker? Can we affect our roasting to have dark roasted coffee yet without abundant oil spots?
Much more to unpack here than can be shared in a comment, but for all practical purposes, no.
@@MillCityRoastersMN Thank you! :)
Я ціную Вашу працю. Дякую Вам !🙂
thanks for your efforts guys . please can you explain to me how can i reach dark roast ( charring taste ) with easiest way ( fast jump or slow jump to sc ) with keeping nice characteristics of coffee .
Hello - I love this content and you have an excellent way of teaching some complex processes. I am working my way through all your clips very slowly :) So, would you mind taking a step back (Joe and Dave) taking your Mill City Roasters Cap off and recommending a home roaster to a complete beginner who wants a hands on approach tool with the best abilities / potential for learning the roasting process please? Most definitely under 1kg:) Please note, I am in New Zealand and we have limited access (domestic) to all this incredible hardware without having to import ourselves and pay taxes / duties etc on Import. Would a Hottop be a god starting point?? What about the Aillio? Thanks if you can help me out - Cheers!
where the oil come from? coming from seeds itself or created by roasting process?
Oil gets pushed from the center of the seed to the surface as the temperature rises.
Hey guys, the theory about brazilian natural coffee is incorrect. Actually, the natural process difficult the germination process in Brazil ...because the process use high temperature and breaks down the germination process.... The washed process guarantee 95% power germination ... and most of washed beans in central america or africa is too dense. In our farm in Brazil we uses the germination process to improve de density.... Our land is located at 750m above sea level and, yes, we have density. The conception is, if you have seeds with power of germination preserved these seeds are life ... In post harvest if you use high temperature to dry coffee, the germination is aborted. Tha´s why any brazilian coffees are lower density...
Leo Mo
makes my brain happy. like coffee.
I've only come across one shop that did not blend their espresso, and kept it single origin shots for espresso based drinks like dave referred to. I am curious to see how much more popular or how unpopular this will stay/become in the future.
in my my shop we always offer our house blend and a single origin option
On the topic of the ROR after FC: how would you approach the roast if eveytime after FC the ROR plummets then as it gains energy yo get the lick of death and the roast runs away? I've tried increasing/decreasing gas in different increments throughout the roast, tried multiple charge temperatures and even reduced batch size but nothing seems to help stop the lick of death
On our roasters, we anticipate that excess exothermic heat and usually control it by decreasing the gas and increasing the airflow.
Ditto. I second this question. Our roasts all really want to flick at the end, so making the roast go longer seems pretty impossible without getting that or just totally baking the coffee.
What do you mean by baking the coffee. and how does that taste ?
Baking happens when you don't apply enough heat in the beginning so First Crack comes late.
The coffee tastes flat
Good information. Always enjoy watching you guys.
I was unable to watch live. Is there a way to know when the next live show will be? I do have more questions.
Thanks guys, and please keep up the good work.
17.X?
He means 17 Oct, tenth month. Erhard is in Austria.
Question on how (in your experience) roasts taken into second crack align with some of Scott Rao's suggestions in his book:
Do you find that darker roasts require higher DTR than 25%? I have trouble maintaining a declining ROR after 1C AND keeping DTR under 25% when executing a roast taken to a rolling 2C, for example.
Maybe I just need to enter 1C with more momentum/higher ROR?
You are correct. Too flat of an ROR going into FC will stretch that roast forever. Try a bit more momentum goiing into FC.
Yes, darker roasts invariably will give you a DTR above 25%. Inherent in the action you are doing. I don't think they align with Rao as it is very doubtful he is drinking 2nd crack coffee or referring to it.
Word. Rao wrote that his 20-25% rule applies mostly to medium light/medium dark roasting (already frustratingly vague, I know), so when we hit 2nd crack that rule starts to not apply anymore. Additionally, I find that with light roasting (just out of first crack), on delicate coffees like Yirgs, if I try to hit 20-25%, roast character overcomes origin character. I find the best ratio to be around 15% actually.
bensmarsh i face same issue as what happened with you, it difficult to maintain ror declining and same some energy to reach Sc
First crack.. Water gas ( loud ), like pop corn.. Second crack .. gas. ( less loud) mostly CO2