Russell, Ocon, Alonso, Bottas stay in the track limit. And the first 3 where on course to finish 4,5 and 6 (without the 2nd pit stop of Alonso) so it is possible to be fast and stay in if you want. Those rules are good and I hope they will keep them.
Last year the track limit was the outside of the ripple strip. Drviers kept running wide. It's not a track limit issue, its the fact that they can gain an advantage by doing so, hence they will continue to push wider and wider.
Jup. Look at a wet track drying up. Look how aucurately they stay on the very narrow dry line on their slicks. Certain doom if they misst it. They are perfectly capable if they want to. Or places like Monaco with it's barriers. Funnily enough people all of a sudden to stay on track.
When Leclerc was warned a second time, he never breached track limits again and still had great times. So they can slow down a bit more to make sure you stay within the limits. But if the track has this much problems, they should fix it. The penalties were ridicilous
@@droprelease4820 tell me about it 😅, ruining a race / championship because of a tiny slip 😅 it was already ruined when Sainz's engine blew up, giving Verstappen a lot of free points, then the pedal got stuck,.. against all those odds Leclerc still put in top notch lap times and proved he was ready to be a champ! 😄
It’s obviously infuriating but then again we can’t get mad when rules are enforced given how angry we’ve been recently when they haven’t been. Another great video tho keep it up man I been enjoying them a lot lately. That Damon Hill video was sick
@@Alex-kj2up i dont think strict track limits is a terrible thing. Especially if it means it starts to encourage them to be consistent with everything else
@@diegoleonardia5358 strict track limits aren’t the problem, the actual problem is where those track limits are which is exemplified by the last 2 corners in Austria. Also if you get a penalised for track limits even if you lock up and lose time it is very stupid
Simple solution, bring gravel or grass traps closer to the track limit so that if you run wide, your outer tyres are entirely in the gravel or grass. It would no longer be faster to run wide. get rid of sausage kerbs and paved run-off areas.
I don’t think it’s fair to enforce track limits when the driver has made a mistake and lost time, I always thought of tack limits as a time gained off track penalty
A Video Idea is „the battle of the number two driver“ Bottas v Barrichello, who was better as „sidemen“ to the champion of the years 2000-2004 and 2017-2020, (2021)
Im not really good with the rules but from what I know it's 3 track limits then black and white flag and after the 4th track limit its a 5second penalty
Yea, I would really like to see the edge of the track, especially the corners, covered with fireworks or fountains that would automatically start for a moment when all four tires of the car have crossed the white line. It would be cool to watch during the race as well as after the race when the drivers could to create fountain game or a huge fireworks!
Max is right track limits was a joke. But not because the stewards enforced them but because apparently the best drivers in the world can't stay on the road.
FIA next year: Since nobody can come into a majority agreement when it comes to our management of track limits, we have now decided that for next year every turn in Austria will now have a Sausage curb to discourage breaching track limits!
Completely agree with your statement at the end. Although it was hard to keep track of who had a warning or penalty, it added an extra element to the race.
If you can’t stay within the white lines you are being too greedy and looking to gain time where you CAN’T. It’s literally as simple as what max said it wasn’t. If you can’t keep it on the track, then you are going too fast through there. It’s not like you are losing time relative to anyone else since everyone should be staying within the white lines
I mean yeah. You have a track where you can barely see, in cars from which you can barely see out of AND on top of that, limited testing and acclimatization time so we can have that nonsense of the sprint race. No wonder everyone was exceeding limits left and right. Just to be clear, I'm ok with the FIA being strict on limits, but they also have to be fair in terms of the testing time they give the drivers.
If you get caught speeding, saying oh but I sped somewhere else and didn’t get caught or that someone else sped and they didn’t get caught, won’t stop you getting a ticket. If everyone got a ticket every single time they sped at all then there would be a backlash of people angry that it’s being policed so harshly, but that doesn’t change that a law was broken. What we saw at Austria is rules being enforced, which is what was wanted to be done consistently. The worst thing they could do now is not police it next race
I agree but it just feels like the race directors are flexing a bit too much this year. I think the key is consistency though - will they maintain this for the rest of the season? I'm not confident they will be consistent.
Right, remember last week when people were like, "Oh, so they've decided to be more lenient with the track limits and good hard racing? Cool, glad it'll be that way from now on." Like yeah, they were a tiny bit too loose with enforcement in Silverstone, but you can't tell me that Austria is a better alternative. Switching between the two extremes is just icing on a shitcake
The automated detection system takes time to be implemented But an easier Way to do it is to put cameras on every corner exit, cuz so many times the current camera angles can't show unequivocally whether the driver is off the track.
Track limits and the white line has been an on/off issue for decades. I remember the '90s when they were told not to cross the line. They know the rules and are meant to be the best 20 drivers in the world. If limits are not enforced then we get the Indycar/COTA situaion where the white line is a 'non entity'. Edit. Just Armco the outside of the white line...
How did you not mention Silverstone once? You mentioned the argument in which the drivers want consistency from the FIA, and that is not happening at all, and you didn’t mention that, instead you blamed the drivers saying that they asked for this in the beginning of year. Why?
The FIA say the white line is the track limit, but we've seen a few races this season where the white lines weren't enforced. FIA just went on a powertrip this entire weekend.
isn't the track limit monitored automatically in MotoGP? I remember Simon Crafar saying that they changed it to touching the green from not touching the curb anymore specifically to be able to automate it. So why can't they just automate it in F1.
I think FIA should just be consistent with this and stick to their guns. That way the drivers can become conditioned and STOP going over track limits. It does annoy the hell out of me when the FIA does not penalize the big 3 teams but will come down hard on every other team. The fact that they are at least consistent here make's me satisfied about it.
That said, running wide onto rough sections doesn't equal a traction advantage. So I'm assuming that regardless how rough it looks they can stay mostly flat in those areas.
Depends on if it's about big or mm offenses. I mean if they end up gaining advantage that wouldn't be right of course. How much do you gain from an inch or two?
it would be super easy for the fia to mandate technology that can measure when a car goes wide, the whole perez incident is what annoyed me most about this weekend because of this reason. i want track limits to be enforced entirely at every corner at every track having the fia say "we can only patrol certain corners" allows incident like perez making it to q3 to happen. the fia need to start using all these driver fines to invest in their own upgrades
agree with everything you said... hearing the formula 1 world champion basically say its too hard to stay in track limits all the time (im assuming he means when hes "overtaking" as well) couldn't be more ridiculous.. you are meant to be among the most elite drivers on earth. if you are getting warnings for running wide all the time, here is an idea... lift.
I think it is good they are policing the track limits. Particularly for hamilton I understand his frustration because the whole sprint race he kept seeing mick going wide in front of him and not getting track limits warnings. Then they enforce it in the race
I would love to see an automatic sensor and warning system. Of course they would still have to manually drop cases where a driver is forced wide or has to take evasive action so it's never going to be perfect, but at least for qualifying it would help a lot
This debate has been going on for years, you're right, if you give a driver an inch he'll take a mile so you need to take away the running off track option. IMO I think the physical barrier solution is the best answer ie. as we know at Monaco for eg if you exceed track limits you're in the wall, simple & it works very well. With Austria the gravel trap at turn 4 is most effective, that needs to be emulated elsewhere with the obvious exception of turn 1 which has the Moto GP long lap penalty lane. So basically you get your inside wheel past the white line you're in the gravel which means you lose time & could spin into the gravel trap so you're mad to go there. The corner Checo got done for, turn 9 I think they could place deeper serrations on the extreme inside of the curb so if you put your inside wheels past the white line you seriously risk a puncture or breaking your car so again you'd be crazy to go there. It would serve the same purpose for all other classes of cars and bikes. You race on a race track which is the black stuff between the white lines. Cheers
I personally think they need to be more lenient and look if the driver lifted when they went wide so they don't gain time. I also think that the drivers raced harder in Silverstone because the track limits weren't so strict whereas here the limits were very strict and the drivers might have been more careful here
It’s the same with race directors, first they complained that there was only one race director and now the drivers complain that there are too many 🤷♂️
I think honstly think there a situations in which you dont gain time are very common like haven mid corner oversteer and having to correct that. and to get the tracklimits warming in that situation does kinda sound unfair to me but in other situation i completly agree that they should give out warnings/ penaltys
There were so many issues with track limits this weekend, nothing to do with what Max said, it was the way the way they were monitored. 1. They screwed up with Checo and Gasly lost a chance to start the sprint in front of Hamilton, this would have avoided contact and he would have probably started the race in 9th. 2. They are manually giving warnings, penalties and black and white flags and it was not sensor based and there were more people who escaped them than necessary. 3. People who lock up and go out should never be penalized.
If I play a racing game, I get a penalty for going off by a single mm, I feel that the FIA has always had an overal rule saying "the track ends at the white line", but F1 has a different approach "track limits is where the stewards decide they lay" I mean, in Baku you also don't go off track: There's a concrete wall there. What if we put a 10cm high wall at the white line? That will deter everyone from running wide. Now they CAN run wide, so they WILL run wide, so I see this policing as a positive
while I was anxious all race about both Ferrari's getting a penalty about track limits I had no issues regarding the implementation at all in the race.
Exceeding the track limit is one thing. Gaining time is another. In my opinion, exceeding the track limits should be allowed if you don't gain time. Or that you get a chance to be notificated about a track limit infringement and slow down a bit within the next few mini sectors. This way, you can enforce track limits and still be able to apply no time penalties. I also understand that it's important to be even stricter in qualifying. But it is still a ridiculous site to see someone go off-track and massively lose time and still get his lap time deleted. The moment where the FIA went overboard though is when they didn't realise early enough that Perez also exceeded track limits in Q2 and they let him continue in Q3 anyway.
My guess would be: by crossing the white line 43 times? (Well technically that would be 86 times as they'd be crossing it again to get back on track now, wouldn't they?)
TBH, the number of warnings hardly seems surprising. If the FIA is going to strictly enforce track limits AND there is an advantage to be had by exceeding track limits, then it seems pretty obvious that drivers will tend to get several warnings where those are allowed - if they don't use up their warnings, they're leaving time on the table, so it's just matter of how margin to leave for small mistakes later on versus saving the time right then. The drivers will take that advantage if it's there, just as they would take if the track limits would only be enforced loosely. With 3 warnings before a penalty, 'optimally' (obv circumstances may vary) every driver would use up 3 warnings for track limits and no one would get a penalty to get whatever advantage can be had for exceeding the limits. That's 60 warnings for 20 drivers. If every driver is going to leave 1 limit violation as a buffer, then 'ideally' we see 40 warnings for 20 drivers. In the race, it looks like 4 drivers got penalties for exceeding the limits too many times, and there were 43 warnings - OTOH, we have some other DNFs so not everyone got a real chance to push to the limits on warnings. But I still think that's pretty close, and as drivers and teams get more used to that kind of enforcement, I'd bet they would get even closer to that optimum.
I think track design should be made in such a way that running wide doesn't gain time. Be it through street circuits and walls or gravel traps. Ofcourse this isn't a quick or easy solution
Of course, the flipside is that using obstacles as the track limit can be hazards reducing safety or cause complete track blocks when cars hit something and thus force red flags.
not controversially, i also do not agree with max.. for one; noone says driving a F1 car is easy... but its the rules... period, and ye the balance between driving the absolute edge while staying within limits is certainly not easy and in fact an art that is awed by many... so getgud... FIA just needs to be consistent on whether there been a timegain or not... also people need to stfu... F1 like most sports is arbitration, theres humans who make decisions and judge, thats ALWAYS debatable but split second decisions simply have to be made, so the referee decides and you move on... period.. go cry about it
A Video Idea is „the battle of the number two driver“ Bottas v Barrichello, who was netter as „sidemen“ to the champion of the years 2000-2004 and 2017-2020, (2021)
It's not the apex that's the issue. It's the fact that you can gain an advantage by running wide. Thats why it's only happening at certain corners. Remember that last year, the edge of the ripple strips were the track limit, and they still kept running wide!
If the white line is deemed the track limits then why did Alonso not have to give back his finger wagging position to Yuki? If that’s the rule in the corner then why not the straight?
I really thought you were going to go in the other direction with this. Max's statement, while I understand what he is saying, I do....THEY ARE THE TRACK LIMITS. Youre the best drivers in the world, work it out or come out and say your own track is no longer suitable for F1...
It was expected but what people forget is that just outside those corners they had sausage kerbs that would trash their suspension but they complained and now they expect that they can take liberties? give them an inch and they will take a mile, I say put back the kerbs as punishment and let them cry they are supposed to be the best of the best and yet they can't keep the car within the white lines? It's called rules, not guidelines.
British GP: these sausage curbs are dangerous. They should just enforce track limits! Austrian GP: enforcing track limits is stupid. There should be a natural penalty like gravel or a wall for stepping over the edge! When inevitably a popular driver crashes at Spa or Monza or Singapore: these natural barriers are too dangerous. They should just have artificial barriers like sausage curbs or just enforce the track limits at the white line!
The white line rule being used through out the season is a good step forward, now it's about fine tuning the rule. Lando’s penalty should not have happened and an adjustment to not provide a penalty if they lose time in that corner should be in place.
Let the drivers use the kerbs as much as they want, the track should stop when there's gravel or grass(or tarmac unfortunately in most circuits), if they go over the white lines by one cm it doesn't make much of a difference; they also do this strict policing of track limits in motogp where you get pushed off and slightly touch the green surface and get penalised, it's absolutely ridicolous. Of course if you gain an advantage during an overtake by going off the track you should get penalised(like Perez in SIlverstone, but they didn't even investigate it so who knows), but when you're on your own and go slightly out because of understeer you shouldn't get warnings.
@@dislexyc Yeah but if everybody can go over the white lines(I'm not talking about the green external surface after the kerbs) then there's no significant advantage for anyone, the kerbs are part of the track. You don't gain tenths by going over by one centimeter on 5 laps during the race, let alone 5 seconds. Do you realize they give 5 second penalties when a driver punts someone off the track in a battle and give the same penalty to Norris who gained maybe a tenth in total during a 72 lap race by going slightly over the white lines? It's an absolute joke, this is not what F1 is about.
These are the best drivers in the world. The track limit is the track limit. In football, Ronaldo or Messi don't score goals from outside of the field of play.
While I'm not happy with how Austria and it's track limits were handled Everything and I mean everything I better than the track limit bs that are changing constantly and never stay the same as we had before. Clear cut rule.
Track limits are difficult only because the drivers race the way they do. The line is the line! Period. Don't go as quick around those specific corners and you won't accidentally slide past the line!
I think it was unfair to let Checo do laps in Q3 even though he existed track limits because it's a lost of time and also wasted tyres and also more engine wear for no reason. They should have been more efficient and told them straight away.
I dont care about anything the drivers say, apart of the skill is judging how to keep it on track. No ifs no buts no ntg. If you have to go slower to make the corner do so .
I disagree. Sometimes you can lose time going a little wide. As Max pointed out, if you go a little wide because your car pushes wide, you actually lose time. If you go a little wide because that's where you put the car without any sliding, then you can gain some time. My big complaint with how it was handled in Austria is what happened to Checo. If the FIA is going to delete quali times for exceeding track limits, they need to be able to identify it quickly. Waiting several hours later, long after qualifying is over just demonstrates that FIA is not up to the task of correctly policing track limits. The only reason the stewards looked at it is because the media picked up on it right away. I realize keeping track of all the cars that might go wide is difficult, but that's their job to sort out. If the FIA is going to strictly enforce track limits, then they need to figure out how to do it in a timely fashion. Otherwise you wind up in post quali/race hell with outcomes altered after the fact which pisses off drivers and fans alike. The burden is on the FIA to fix this. As has been noted by others, there were other cars that went wide at turns 6, 7, and 8, and because the media didn't notice it, neither did the FIA and their times were not deleted. Hardly a fair situation.
It was very sad to see that ferrari didn't care about carlos engine problem, when in the last race they weren't happy to celebrate his victory bc of leclerc's 4th.
Red Bull ring has always been one of the hardest tracks to stay within the limits.
Yep
Russell, Ocon, Alonso, Bottas stay in the track limit. And the first 3 where on course to finish 4,5 and 6 (without the 2nd pit stop of Alonso) so it is possible to be fast and stay in if you want. Those rules are good and I hope they will keep them.
F1 fans: Enforce all the rules no matter what!
Also f1 fans: No, not like that!
lmao, exactly
No, Enforce them consistently, that's the main issue
New F1 fans: what even are the rules!
@@Holoflux That's literally what FIA is doing right now lmao
Last year the track limit was the outside of the ripple strip. Drviers kept running wide. It's not a track limit issue, its the fact that they can gain an advantage by doing so, hence they will continue to push wider and wider.
💯
Jup. Look at a wet track drying up. Look how aucurately they stay on the very narrow dry line on their slicks. Certain doom if they misst it. They are perfectly capable if they want to. Or places like Monaco with it's barriers. Funnily enough people all of a sudden to stay on track.
When Leclerc was warned a second time, he never breached track limits again and still had great times. So they can slow down a bit more to make sure you stay within the limits.
But if the track has this much problems, they should fix it. The penalties were ridicilous
i was biting my fingers the whole race that he would exceed track limits (let alone Carlos' engine failure, and Leclerc's throttle issue)
@@droprelease4820 tell me about it 😅, ruining a race / championship because of a tiny slip 😅
it was already ruined when Sainz's engine blew up, giving Verstappen a lot of free points, then the pedal got stuck,.. against all those odds Leclerc still put in top notch lap times and proved he was ready to be a champ! 😄
It’s obviously infuriating but then again we can’t get mad when rules are enforced given how angry we’ve been recently when they haven’t been. Another great video tho keep it up man I been enjoying them a lot lately. That Damon Hill video was sick
The problem is they’re enforcing the wrong rules. They’re hard on jewelry and track limits, but handle situations differently depending on the driver.
@@Alex-kj2up i dont think strict track limits is a terrible thing. Especially if it means it starts to encourage them to be consistent with everything else
@@diegoleonardia5358 strict track limits aren’t the problem, the actual problem is where those track limits are which is exemplified by the last 2 corners in Austria. Also if you get a penalised for track limits even if you lock up and lose time it is very stupid
@@inahole2678 Well, but aren't they supposed to be the best drivers of the world?!
I totally agree! Consistency is important
Aldas is talking like he has driven those new generation cars first hand and knows how they handle in every situation
Given the technology and funding F1 operates, Track limit monitoring sensors would be fairly easy to implement
Simple solution, bring gravel or grass traps closer to the track limit so that if you run wide, your outer tyres are entirely in the gravel or grass. It would no longer be faster to run wide. get rid of sausage kerbs and paved run-off areas.
I don’t think it’s fair to enforce track limits when the driver has made a mistake and lost time, I always thought of tack limits as a time gained off track penalty
Man it was worse than a f1 game lobby
Fr fr 😂😂
The only thing that's missing are people smashing into each other.
5:23 has nothing to do with him realising anything. Like you said a couple of seconds earlier. He is asking a rhetorical question.
A Video Idea is „the battle of the number two driver“ Bottas v Barrichello, who was better as „sidemen“ to the champion of the years 2000-2004 and 2017-2020, (2021)
Bottas not exceeding track limits once I don't think at least. so it is possible
Time for Teflon curbs.
I feel like if a sport is known as the “pinnacle“, drivers should stop complaining about it being “too difficult“
Im not really good with the rules but from what I know it's 3 track limits then black and white flag and after the 4th track limit its a 5second penalty
Yea, I would really like to see the edge of the track, especially the corners, covered with fireworks or fountains that would automatically start for a moment when all four tires of the car have crossed the white line.
It would be cool to watch during the race as well as after the race when the drivers could to create fountain game or a huge fireworks!
Max is right track limits was a joke. But not because the stewards enforced them but because apparently the best drivers in the world can't stay on the road.
FIA next year: Since nobody can come into a majority agreement when it comes to our management of track limits, we have now decided that for next year every turn in Austria will now have a Sausage curb to discourage breaching track limits!
Completely agree with your statement at the end. Although it was hard to keep track of who had a warning or penalty, it added an extra element to the race.
If you can’t stay within the white lines you are being too greedy and looking to gain time where you CAN’T. It’s literally as simple as what max said it wasn’t. If you can’t keep it on the track, then you are going too fast through there. It’s not like you are losing time relative to anyone else since everyone should be staying within the white lines
I mean yeah. You have a track where you can barely see, in cars from which you can barely see out of AND on top of that, limited testing and acclimatization time so we can have that nonsense of the sprint race. No wonder everyone was exceeding limits left and right.
Just to be clear, I'm ok with the FIA being strict on limits, but they also have to be fair in terms of the testing time they give the drivers.
I liked to see so many warnings, made the race even more interesting with more suspens
If you get caught speeding, saying oh but I sped somewhere else and didn’t get caught or that someone else sped and they didn’t get caught, won’t stop you getting a ticket. If everyone got a ticket every single time they sped at all then there would be a backlash of people angry that it’s being policed so harshly, but that doesn’t change that a law was broken. What we saw at Austria is rules being enforced, which is what was wanted to be done consistently. The worst thing they could do now is not police it next race
I agree but it just feels like the race directors are flexing a bit too much this year. I think the key is consistency though - will they maintain this for the rest of the season? I'm not confident they will be consistent.
Right, remember last week when people were like, "Oh, so they've decided to be more lenient with the track limits and good hard racing? Cool, glad it'll be that way from now on." Like yeah, they were a tiny bit too loose with enforcement in Silverstone, but you can't tell me that Austria is a better alternative. Switching between the two extremes is just icing on a shitcake
The automated detection system takes time to be implemented
But an easier Way to do it is to put cameras on every corner exit, cuz so many times the current camera angles can't show unequivocally whether the driver is off the track.
Invest in sensors on every track problem solve but I’m guessing the fia are not wanting to spend the money which is dumb imo
As a league racer on the F1 game, it’s pretty hard to stay within track limits in Austria
Track limits and the white line has been an on/off issue for decades. I remember the '90s when they were told not to cross the line. They know the rules and are meant to be the best 20 drivers in the world. If limits are not enforced then we get the Indycar/COTA situaion where the white line is a 'non entity'. Edit. Just Armco the outside of the white line...
How did you not mention Silverstone once? You mentioned the argument in which the drivers want consistency from the FIA, and that is not happening at all, and you didn’t mention that, instead you blamed the drivers saying that they asked for this in the beginning of year. Why?
I totally agree, nice commentary
The FIA say the white line is the track limit, but we've seen a few races this season where the white lines weren't enforced. FIA just went on a powertrip this entire weekend.
isn't the track limit monitored automatically in MotoGP? I remember Simon Crafar saying that they changed it to touching the green from not touching the curb anymore specifically to be able to automate it. So why can't they just automate it in F1.
I think FIA should just be consistent with this and stick to their guns. That way the drivers can become conditioned and STOP going over track limits. It does annoy the hell out of me when the FIA does not penalize the big 3 teams but will come down hard on every other team. The fact that they are at least consistent here make's me satisfied about it.
That said, running wide onto rough sections doesn't equal a traction advantage. So I'm assuming that regardless how rough it looks they can stay mostly flat in those areas.
Depends on if it's about big or mm offenses. I mean if they end up gaining advantage that wouldn't be right of course. How much do you gain from an inch or two?
Why not simply remove track limits as a whole and just make exceptions for corners where you can massively gain. Would be the better solution imo.
@James Black choosing to put exceptions leads to different interpretation. the rules have to be black and white.
I'm ok with strict track limits but it's either got to be strict or not every weekend and maybe it shouldn't be called if 2 tires are still on track
it would be super easy for the fia to mandate technology that can measure when a car goes wide, the whole perez incident is what annoyed me most about this weekend because of this reason. i want track limits to be enforced entirely at every corner at every track having the fia say "we can only patrol certain corners" allows incident like perez making it to q3 to happen. the fia need to start using all these driver fines to invest in their own upgrades
a lot of drivers were running wide turn one which was costing them time because of the big sausage kerb
agree with everything you said... hearing the formula 1 world champion basically say its too hard to stay in track limits all the time (im assuming he means when hes "overtaking" as well) couldn't be more ridiculous.. you are meant to be among the most elite drivers on earth. if you are getting warnings for running wide all the time, here is an idea... lift.
I think it is good they are policing the track limits. Particularly for hamilton I understand his frustration because the whole sprint race he kept seeing mick going wide in front of him and not getting track limits warnings. Then they enforce it in the race
I would love to see an automatic sensor and warning system. Of course they would still have to manually drop cases where a driver is forced wide or has to take evasive action so it's never going to be perfect, but at least for qualifying it would help a lot
This debate has been going on for years, you're right, if you give a driver an inch he'll take a mile so you need to take away the running off track option. IMO I think the physical barrier solution is the best answer ie. as we know at Monaco for eg if you exceed track limits you're in the wall, simple & it works very well. With Austria the gravel trap at turn 4 is most effective, that needs to be emulated elsewhere with the obvious exception of turn 1 which has the Moto GP long lap penalty lane. So basically you get your inside wheel past the white line you're in the gravel which means you lose time & could spin into the gravel trap so you're mad to go there. The corner Checo got done for, turn 9 I think they could place deeper serrations on the extreme inside of the curb so if you put your inside wheels past the white line you seriously risk a puncture or breaking your car so again you'd be crazy to go there. It would serve the same purpose for all other classes of cars and bikes. You race on a race track which is the black stuff between the white lines. Cheers
I personally think they need to be more lenient and look if the driver lifted when they went wide so they don't gain time. I also think that the drivers raced harder in Silverstone because the track limits weren't so strict whereas here the limits were very strict and the drivers might have been more careful here
I was waiting for the signature “Well, there you have it.” at the end. Good video as always, Aldas! 👍🏾
6:47 Funny how Alda’s said the exact same thing Max said
It’s the same with race directors, first they complained that there was only one race director and now the drivers complain that there are too many 🤷♂️
I think honstly think there a situations in which you dont gain time are very common like haven mid corner oversteer and having to correct that. and to get the tracklimits warming in that situation does kinda sound unfair to me but in other situation i completly agree that they should give out warnings/ penaltys
There were so many issues with track limits this weekend, nothing to do with what Max said, it was the way the way they were monitored.
1. They screwed up with Checo and Gasly lost a chance to start the sprint in front of Hamilton, this would have avoided contact and he would have probably started the race in 9th.
2. They are manually giving warnings, penalties and black and white flags and it was not sensor based and there were more people who escaped them than necessary.
3. People who lock up and go out should never be penalized.
If I play a racing game, I get a penalty for going off by a single mm,
I feel that the FIA has always had an overal rule saying "the track ends at the white line", but F1 has a different approach "track limits is where the stewards decide they lay"
I mean, in Baku you also don't go off track: There's a concrete wall there.
What if we put a 10cm high wall at the white line? That will deter everyone from running wide.
Now they CAN run wide, so they WILL run wide, so I see this policing as a positive
while I was anxious all race about both Ferrari's getting a penalty about track limits I had no issues regarding the implementation at all in the race.
Exceeding the track limit is one thing. Gaining time is another.
In my opinion, exceeding the track limits should be allowed if you don't gain time. Or that you get a chance to be notificated about a track limit infringement and slow down a bit within the next few mini sectors. This way, you can enforce track limits and still be able to apply no time penalties.
I also understand that it's important to be even stricter in qualifying. But it is still a ridiculous site to see someone go off-track and massively lose time and still get his lap time deleted.
The moment where the FIA went overboard though is when they didn't realise early enough that Perez also exceeded track limits in Q2 and they let him continue in Q3 anyway.
My guess would be: by crossing the white line 43 times? (Well technically that would be 86 times as they'd be crossing it again to get back on track now, wouldn't they?)
10:04, the 20 best drivers in the world.
And you show Goatifi's car 😎
Honestly, as a Red Bull and Max fan, who cares what the drivers think on the topic? You all wanted stewards consistency? You got it!
Hopefully from now on drivers won't want a penalty so will follow rules. Great video Aldas.
Remove the green concrete overrun(safety), and replace with the original grass again, see how many kiss that?
TBH, the number of warnings hardly seems surprising. If the FIA is going to strictly enforce track limits AND there is an advantage to be had by exceeding track limits, then it seems pretty obvious that drivers will tend to get several warnings where those are allowed - if they don't use up their warnings, they're leaving time on the table, so it's just matter of how margin to leave for small mistakes later on versus saving the time right then. The drivers will take that advantage if it's there, just as they would take if the track limits would only be enforced loosely.
With 3 warnings before a penalty, 'optimally' (obv circumstances may vary) every driver would use up 3 warnings for track limits and no one would get a penalty to get whatever advantage can be had for exceeding the limits. That's 60 warnings for 20 drivers. If every driver is going to leave 1 limit violation as a buffer, then 'ideally' we see 40 warnings for 20 drivers. In the race, it looks like 4 drivers got penalties for exceeding the limits too many times, and there were 43 warnings - OTOH, we have some other DNFs so not everyone got a real chance to push to the limits on warnings. But I still think that's pretty close, and as drivers and teams get more used to that kind of enforcement, I'd bet they would get even closer to that optimum.
It’s 3 warnings then a penalty no?
Yeah I was hoping someone else noticed this. Im pretty sure it's 3 off tracks = black and white flag with a penalty on the 4th off
I think track design should be made in such a way that running wide doesn't gain time. Be it through street circuits and walls or gravel traps.
Ofcourse this isn't a quick or easy solution
Of course, the flipside is that using obstacles as the track limit can be hazards reducing safety or cause complete track blocks when cars hit something and thus force red flags.
By going off track
not controversially, i also do not agree with max.. for one; noone says driving a F1 car is easy... but its the rules... period, and ye the balance between driving the absolute edge while staying within limits is certainly not easy and in fact an art that is awed by many... so getgud... FIA just needs to be consistent on whether there been a timegain or not... also people need to stfu... F1 like most sports is arbitration, theres humans who make decisions and judge, thats ALWAYS debatable but split second decisions simply have to be made, so the referee decides and you move on... period.. go cry about it
A Video Idea is „the battle of the number two driver“ Bottas v Barrichello, who was netter as „sidemen“ to the champion of the years 2000-2004 and 2017-2020, (2021)
They should automate it and give feedback to the drivers. After a while it will not be a problem
So open up the apexes on the troubled corners...
It's not the apex that's the issue. It's the fact that you can gain an advantage by running wide. Thats why it's only happening at certain corners. Remember that last year, the edge of the ripple strips were the track limit, and they still kept running wide!
If the white line is deemed the track limits then why did Alonso not have to give back his finger wagging position to Yuki? If that’s the rule in the corner then why not the straight?
I really thought you were going to go in the other direction with this. Max's statement, while I understand what he is saying, I do....THEY ARE THE TRACK LIMITS. Youre the best drivers in the world, work it out or come out and say your own track is no longer suitable for F1...
I'm sure I seen Lewis have 3 there but didn't get a pen unless I didn't see the pen
It was expected but what people forget is that just outside those corners they had sausage kerbs that would trash their suspension but they complained and now they expect that they can take liberties? give them an inch and they will take a mile, I say put back the kerbs as punishment and let them cry they are supposed to be the best of the best and yet they can't keep the car within the white lines? It's called rules, not guidelines.
British GP: these sausage curbs are dangerous. They should just enforce track limits!
Austrian GP: enforcing track limits is stupid. There should be a natural penalty like gravel or a wall for stepping over the edge!
When inevitably a popular driver crashes at Spa or Monza or Singapore: these natural barriers are too dangerous. They should just have artificial barriers like sausage curbs or just enforce the track limits at the white line!
The white line rule being used through out the season is a good step forward, now it's about fine tuning the rule. Lando’s penalty should not have happened and an adjustment to not provide a penalty if they lose time in that corner should be in place.
Just replace the green kerbs with grass its sooooo simple to fix track limits
Imagine if it was Lewis who gave an answer...
It looks worse on the drivers than the stewards I think, but they do need to be consistent so I thought it was good thing
Let the drivers use the kerbs as much as they want, the track should stop when there's gravel or grass(or tarmac unfortunately in most circuits), if they go over the white lines by one cm it doesn't make much of a difference; they also do this strict policing of track limits in motogp where you get pushed off and slightly touch the green surface and get penalised, it's absolutely ridicolous. Of course if you gain an advantage during an overtake by going off the track you should get penalised(like Perez in SIlverstone, but they didn't even investigate it so who knows), but when you're on your own and go slightly out because of understeer you shouldn't get warnings.
@@dislexyc Yeah but if everybody can go over the white lines(I'm not talking about the green external surface after the kerbs) then there's no significant advantage for anyone, the kerbs are part of the track. You don't gain tenths by going over by one centimeter on 5 laps during the race, let alone 5 seconds. Do you realize they give 5 second penalties when a driver punts someone off the track in a battle and give the same penalty to Norris who gained maybe a tenth in total during a 72 lap race by going slightly over the white lines? It's an absolute joke, this is not what F1 is about.
F1 22 TRACK LIMITS:
F1 driver can come within 5cm of Armco in Monaco, but can’t keep it on one side of a white line where there’s an advantage. 🤔
A F1 track is the grey part. 'Nuff said..!
It's ridiculous and detracts from the real racing
Best vid
These are the best drivers in the world.
The track limit is the track limit.
In football, Ronaldo or Messi don't score goals from outside of the field of play.
While I'm not happy with how Austria and it's track limits were handled
Everything and I mean everything I better than the track limit bs that are changing constantly and never stay the same as we had before.
Clear cut rule.
Track limits are difficult only because the drivers race the way they do. The line is the line! Period. Don't go as quick around those specific corners and you won't accidentally slide past the line!
I wonder what racing would be like if you couldn’t touch the kerbs
Wanna race off-track? Go to WRC or something. Track limits should be even more strict, and have a proper way of digital detection.
When everyone breaks a rule, is it still a rule break?
I think it was unfair to let Checo do laps in Q3 even though he existed track limits because it's a lost of time and also wasted tyres and also more engine wear for no reason. They should have been more efficient and told them straight away.
I dont care about anything the drivers say, apart of the skill is judging how to keep it on track. No ifs no buts no ntg. If you have to go slower to make the corner do so .
Street courses with walls don't have this problem.
Simple solution stay away from the white line like you stay away from the gravel trap or wall.
20 best drivers and you showed Latifi 😂
I disagree. Sometimes you can lose time going a little wide. As Max pointed out, if you go a little wide because your car pushes wide, you actually lose time. If you go a little wide because that's where you put the car without any sliding, then you can gain some time. My big complaint with how it was handled in Austria is what happened to Checo. If the FIA is going to delete quali times for exceeding track limits, they need to be able to identify it quickly. Waiting several hours later, long after qualifying is over just demonstrates that FIA is not up to the task of correctly policing track limits. The only reason the stewards looked at it is because the media picked up on it right away. I realize keeping track of all the cars that might go wide is difficult, but that's their job to sort out. If the FIA is going to strictly enforce track limits, then they need to figure out how to do it in a timely fashion. Otherwise you wind up in post quali/race hell with outcomes altered after the fact which pisses off drivers and fans alike. The burden is on the FIA to fix this. As has been noted by others, there were other cars that went wide at turns 6, 7, and 8, and because the media didn't notice it, neither did the FIA and their times were not deleted. Hardly a fair situation.
Why’s Ricciardo in the thumbnail lol
2:24 ... almost a massive crash. stupid move by the white car, who got lucky.
Grass.
If almost every driver is going off track limits then it's the tracks fault.
White line is white line so respect it
Next race will be even worse about track limits.
Lewis Hamilton should have been black flagged and disqualified for cheating with track limits
It was very sad to see that ferrari didn't care about carlos engine problem, when in the last race they weren't happy to celebrate his victory bc of leclerc's 4th.