How The INCREDIBLE HULK Went To Absolute S#!T
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Just a few months ago Wes spotlighted The Incredible Hulk as the Marvel comic to read. Now he's back with a plate of crow, to try an make sense of how The Incredible Hulk went to crap so fast. Writer Phillip Kennedy Johnson is leaning in to far too many of his worst writing tendencies. To create a book with no tension, stakes or buy-in from readers anymore. Wes and Jim review The Incredible Hulk #11, the issue that exposes all the weaknesses of PKJ's Hulk run. How The Incredible Hulk went to absolute crap.
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The story isn’t bad, it just isn’t going anywhere. The narrative decompression of this series makes Bendis look like Claremont
Completely agreed, I see the vision the creatives are going for here but can we get somewhere soon?
@@Philosophical24it picks up for the next few issues with the quest to save Charlie.
Blade started good and is trash, Hulk started great and sucks now, never buying a floppy from marvel again, only trades…
Yeah Blade is already getting cancelled at #10
Only one more issue of Blade and I don’t even care enough to finish it.
I hate when the main cover art is different from the interior art. It's just majorly misleading in my opinion. Cause now i gotta look through the book to see if the art is consistent with the cover.
Then you must really hate a majority of books.
Especially sandman.
@cicolasnage5684 The majority of books weren't like that. They have variants but typically the cover was the same as the interiors. And no I've never read Sandman.
I can get behind it as long as both cover artist and interior artist are good, see current FF issues: Ross on the covers, Gomez on interiors.
Its not much of a comparison but Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees you dont need to worry about cover deviation from interiors. I feel you on this topic.
The art has been crap for a couple of months. Marvel is doing what Valiant did with their titles. Start off good with a solid writer and artist, then bring on a crappy artist.
More importantly is CHEAPER ARTIST. A bunch of artists that rip out their art as fast as possible on the pc. They draw the bare minimum and then slap on a few spots of shitty texture which takes seconds in photoshop or clip studio.
Nick Klein can't work that fast, it isn't Marvel pulling him off the book.
Ahh .. the "BND" the Bold New Direction - where we take the creative team that made it good and put them on another title to salvage.. and leave the new team to do whatever they want ..
These previous issues are what happens when you order a Mike Mignola monster story from WISH.
I'm glad I am not the only one who thought this was a Hellboy story!
@@WeirdScienceComics same here. When u mentioned it in the video I felt relieved. lol
Incredible Grinch
That’s so accurate 😂
Maybe it’s because I’m recovering from an injury, but I keep wanting to call her “Frozen Shoulder.”
The Hulk looks like MCU Hulk from that godawful She-Hulk series.
This Hulk is based for powerscaling. Bro is so strong that even Lucifer is afraid of him and the Mother or Horrors rivals TOAA in terms of power. Im LOVING it
Oh nooo!! Im about 2 maybe 3 issues behind. This book has been 1 of only 5 Marvel titles I've been keeping up with. I may not want to finish the video. Im also an issue or 2 behind on the best current run Marvel has to offer. That being
Fantastic Four. Gimme a like if any of you are enjoying the Ryan North work. For what we have to choose from by Marvel, I think its damn fun amd consistent.
North's FF, Immortal Thor, and Moon Knight are the best 616 ongoings right now imo with Hulk in the state that it's in.
Yeah, for the state that Marvel is/has been in, I'm honestly thrilled each and every issue of FF I read to not have gross amounts of gay, gender swapping, and 17 alternate versions of one character being slopped throughout the story. For the amount of comic youtube I watch I feel its definitely underrated and not even on people's radar.
I'm down to FF and Doctor Strange and have been collecting since 1977. Huge Guardians fan, 10 issues and an annual? Horrible. You'll find me at Ghost Machine from Image
He looks like Conan who ate too many green beans. 🤣
Remember why Hickman left? Marvel wouldn’t let him move on to the next stage of his plot! This sounds like the exact same thing, the editorial won’t move on if something’s making money!
Feels like I'm reading a Hellboy story than the Hulk.
Wes, you're not stupid. You so desperately want to believe all of this can be saved, it's naive, but it's understandable. No one wants to see something the loved get destroyed. We all want to believe it can come back, it's just that some of us don't see a way that it can without burning it all the the ground and rebuild it from scratch, and even then it can still go very very wrong
I read #11 Saturday and immediately thought of how you've been praising this book and was wondering about how you felt about it. I, personally, have been tired of the dark, horror takes on the Hulk for a while now. To me, the Hulk should still be a hero. I believe he is the biggest wish fulfillment for kids - and adults - who have to control themselves and see someone cutting loose. That's what made the character appealing worldwide. Anyway, appreciate the video. You should do more like this, on different characters and creators.
In fairness, Riley Rossmo could be on this book drawing Hulk with little flipper feet and a light bulb shaped head and a little pink scarf tied around his neck.
We are getting into a habit, "this could have been worse". Yes Riely Rossmo would have been worse but it doesn't make this one good.
Im sticking with it. But only because I've been reading Hulk almost consistently since 1984.
I want to read some good hulk runs. Do you have any recommendations?
@@zemox2534 Bill Mantlo, which is inconsistently collected, then Peter David's long run (his return in 2005-06 doesn't add much), his Maestro stories, and then Planet and World War Hulk.
@adamfrey4920 Thank you.
Funnily enough, Danny Earls was the artist on that Alien Annual that Wes hates so much
It's so disappointing! Ready to drop this series.
This mess feels like it is wanting to be a Vertigo story more so than “Hellboy.” But wow, the artwork is so lackluster and sloppy, but then the anti-climactic writing, “yeesh.”
Something about, “the Witch and the Beast” being a far better product from artwork to story…
The series started great, but the sidekick was a red flag.
The art was enough to keep you going as the story meandered, however, Klein has only been on half the issues.
Issue 10 was the last straw for me, I removed it from my pull list. The art was atrocious, the story doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and the sidekick is the real main character.
It was the art. The artist is very good BUT he did his own inking. If you look at his social media the art with just pencils is fine. But the inking looks rushed, with not much tone or contrast, and has the feeling coloring book's art. I feel like it's similar to when the Terry Dobson does art and it just become a rushed mess. Like the pencils alone look so different but inking is everything. As for the story they set the overall arc as a new age of monsters and the mother of horrors is drawing out these monsters and supernatural beings (kind of like Ghostbusters' main monster usually does for other ghosts). So it makes sense. It even makes sense as a way to have the relationship grow between Hulk and the female companion and giving him more reason to want to fight for humanity. Like the Ghost Rider one was pretty good and did the same thing with better art. It did feel more more like a filler arc though but if the art and been better, more dark, more dimension, I feel like it could have been a decent filler story. Also they could have shaved one issue (or even 2) off of the story it was stretched out too long, making the bad art and simple story feel too drawn out. 3 months of filler and such bad art makes it feel like it's been going on too long... and yeah you forget about the connecting arc and the mother of monsters. I love Hulk and the direction but it's so frustrating them letting such a bad product be pushed out ... like they don't care about the run anymore. I m hoping this was just to give nic klein time to catch up.
i don’t mind the story and the monster of the month style . But if you’re gonna have a monster of the month comic, you better have good art to draw readers in to the horror aspect. Way too cartoony. You could be right Maybe a better inker could’ve salvaged this
@@donaldvonglitchenberger4108 I agree. The story was pretty simple so the art really needed to carry the weight of the story (like a simple movie or show plot can be carried by good cinematography or acting)... but instead it just tears it down.
Such a drop off in art. That can’t be the 2nd best artist Marvel has….
You know how much I love PKJ so this has been a rough couple months. I want to say you’re wrong but like Jim said, even Mister Johnson knows this is kind of falling off. He seems to be on his way to that final destination of a universally touted series and these complaints about dragging on come up to often for such a great story teller to ignore. Even if we don’t make it to Vegas, whatever comes next is going to be a game changer
Jim nailed it when he said that this book was probably written for HellBoy. I was thinking the same thing, but I was leaning twds Constantine, since PKJ was just at DC. I think he had this "in the file cabinet" and was like here ya go marvel.. *pencils in Hulk's name *
Same.. why not delay it for Nics art
The Hulk has been absolutely ruined. Bring in Peter David, and a good artist like Todd MacFarlane.
Yeah, I must admit I was just going for the run at this point. Maybe it will turn around better the next issue, but it seems very unlikely 😕. Damn.
I thought the story was fine. The Lucifer thing was a bit dumb but I liked Frozen Charlotte. The art was bad though. I wonder if PKJ did this 3 issue arc as a filler so that Nick Klein can do the art for the more important stories.
Hopefully the story progresses soon.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I kinda like the quirky fill in art and I'm sticking around to find out how he rescues that soul trapped in a bone carving. Should be convoluted.
Nothing to do with the comic but I grew up watching The Incredible Hilk with my dad. This was my first introduction to the Hulk. And then came the 80’s cartoon. I really liked it and it was the first time I realized they changed his name from Bruce to David Banner for the show. I’ve only seen the first Hulk movie and it was forgettable. I never saw the Ed Norton Hulk and I really didn’t like Mark Ruffalo’s Hulk after awhile.
I never read the Hulk comics but I always liked the characters. I wish they could keep doing Hulk justice but that seems like too much to ask for.
Planet Hulk is pretty good. It's somewhat isolated from all the Hulk backstory but is a decent tragic story. Unfortunately, it ends on a to be continued note, but I think you can get away with reading it in isolation.
World War Hulk is okay, not as great. It's hurt by weird JRJR art.
I am 100% in agreement with you. This started so strong. WTF happened???
I told this here in the channel many times,this run sucks. I soon realized after the first issues that this book it's just the Hulk fighting and defeating the monster of the week and nothing more. Charlie is a very annoying character, the worst Hulk sidekick of all times. But this is just like any modern Marvel 616 regular monthly comic. Mediocre and uninspired. It's a shame because PKJ did a good job in Action Comics.
My favorite visuals from this story have to be Bruce grotesquely changing to the Hulk. I’d never seen it done like that before. The transformation looked severely painful. And also the Ghost Rider protecting the boy.
If you read the short story at the end of the book it explains a bit about Nephele/Frozen Charlotte and Lucifer. This Lucifer is more of a Skyfather level being for an Earth pantheon similar to Odin, Zeus, Set, etc.
The thing I hate more than anything is when the interior art is different from the cover art
But that's all that's done now with the fucking variant covers
If the interior artist does a cover, I am getting THAT cover
I dropped it after the first issue
Totally off subject but this weekend i read my comics from my last lcs pick up (when i cancelled my pull list and quit collecting).
Detective: batman hanged story okay at the end but it dragged
Batman: joker year 1: okay i guess
Worlds finest annual: no batman or superman in the whole issue
Sandman: enjoyable but i dont want a 1 book pull list
Jsa: great when it cones out
Flash: read 1 thru 6 and it was way convoluted for me
I could imagine, a thought that comes up while observing the interior illustrations, that if Marvel had competent writers - hire that illustrator combined with a decently told coming of age story with compelling new characters and it could be an ideal start for a western comic to gain a younger audience.
Was thinking about getting into this book, glad I didn't. I feel like Marvel is being run by people who have zero interest in comics at all.
Shame bc I like PKJ a lot. The art seems lackluster at best.
This book was going pretty good. Better than Cate's run. But this art...Pure trash! This looks like Mike Allred went on a bender and forgot how to draw. They should change the name of the book to the Incredible Hobo. At least until they get rid of this shite art!
I'm dropping the Hulk from my pull list. Any suggestions on anything to replace it.
I had my LCS take the Incredible Hulk off of my pull list because though the story isn't bad, it wasn't keeping my interest. I am only spending money on books I am excited about.
I'm reading this, but the art has not been great lately. I do agree the story needs to get going because it is going nowhere.
Itd not your fault but i have no idea what that hulk comic is about...last hulk books i read anyway was the peter david maestro ×3 mini series anyway.
"I'll buy the next issue, then I'm out! I swear l am out! As soon as this run is over! I swear l am SO done with this comic......which l continue to pay for....."
After Immortal Hulk, I really wanted to like this series and I did for a few issues. However, the last few issues haven't impressed me whatsoever and the artwork adds nothing, if anything, the art is a let down.
Just dropped this title because I felt the same way. The story just wasn't going anywhere. I was thinking about dropping Thor too but the story is picking up and I might hang on a bit longer
I was just thinking about picking it up again... like 10 minutes before this came up in my suggestions.😭😂
The Hulk’s face looks like a green Homer Simpson in some of those panels 😂. The art isn’t terrible- clearly Mignola influenced but needs an actual art editor to apply a bit of criticism or diection
I've seen plenty of comic runs over the years that had solid starts but got derailed rather quickly for one reason or another. It happens.
THIS is supposed to be the hulk??? Was looking for a spear & t-rex.
Hulk is like Nightwing. Started strong, then the writer completely lost the narrative. I'll give it a few more issues. Besides Ultimate Spider-Man and Black Panther, it's the only other Marvel book I get.
Thank you, TC, for saving many of us from going through painful experiences by sacrifice yourself reading these comics today (Im not reading anything of the present, but I still feel disapointed for how the things are going in the big two).
Marvel using the Dynamite Comics cover bait and switch.
Hulk want to sit at Starbucks, to be LEFT ALONE!
I was enjoying the fill-in story and guest artist at some level, but the thrid issue (#11) fell apart story and art-wise. Will hold for an issue or two more and hope it gets better ...
Hulk looks like the caveman from Primal by Tartikovsky.
Missed opportunity to use Daimon Hellstrom.
Weird Science must be the one that has the most patience to support this run, man this is terrible! And for me it started to rot in the first issue, then we had progressivism running rampant, everything the writer wants to impose, he does in this run.
No way, this is going to be worse than Cates and anything we think could be bad about Hulk. After Joe Bennett's cancellation, things went downhill.
I fear Banner will become queer in the next issues.
Oh yea, that art is bad, doesn’t suit a Hulk comic at all. Damn, I don’t even read comics anymore and this irks me, I’ve no idea how you guys that are actually reading this must feel.
Flushing money down the toilet
But where exactly is the balance between monster of the week, and never-ending drama fests?
I am enjoying silver age comic books for the very reason they are fun usually one-offs.
I hear people complaining of both extremes, so where is the healthy balance?
UFC 300 was better
That shit was Epic
Jesus, I haven't caught up on my reading of this series yet but now I think I'll sit out the Earls issues, that art is such a shit match it's jarring.
I disagree. I have been enjoying Incredible Hulk all the way up until now. Issue #12 starts the new arc and yes Klein is back. So I feel we are going to get back to where we started.
where did we start?
@@WeirdScienceComics the reveal of Lady Elder and uncovering why she needs Hulk. Of course I also believe we are going to see more layers pulled back on Charlie. At least I hope so.
it Looks Like a weird Drunk Erik Larsen Version?
These types of stories are why I don't let my kids read a comic without me reading first. Pure trash.
Couldn't agree more, I'm also giving it 1, maybe 2 more issues. It's been such a let down.
That was below sub par artwork for a Hulk comic. This is why the rule of a bad artist can ruin a good story / a great artist can make a bad story good prevails in comics still to this day. It's a visual medium folks. WTF20.
Like I said as lo g as Disney's in charge it'll only get worse so get used to it!
I've seen uglier art, this isn't that bad. The story is the real issue.
My buddy and I hasn't missed an issue and now both have dropped this series
Yeah, Imma head out....as a matter of fact, I did 2 issues ago. This book is cratering worse than Wolverine Sabretooth War.
It’s not eating crow. Most thought it was going to be good and then Marvel does what it does best and screws it all up like a staff full of Zeb Wells Peter Parkers.
Damn, I really liked the first half of this series. I’ll give this a listen.
Haven’t read the new Hulk run… but the art looks ok… dunno about the long hair 😂 I looks like Rick Jones Hulked out
I don’t mind a legacy like Hulk running shop on monsters and them fearing him. With the way Cpt. Marvel and all the Mary Sues have no adversity and are the besties why not Hulk? Lolol
ya know - I try my best to be polite and have a broad respect for different styles. Sorry but I try my best to hone my skills like so many other artists out there and then you see stuff like this in a Marvel book. Makes you sad
sorry but I think your taste in comics is bit higher than the average reader because I actually loved this issue
Not higher. Just different. I'm still enjoying the series, but I do hope the threat to Hulk escalates soon.
@@DreadedDormammu yeah it kinda seems like they forgot about the main villian and I'm definitely not opposed to these little side quest issues but I think we need to wrap this up then just keep on fighting monsters
@@WTSD850 I'm just looking to see Hulk have to start working for the win. Frozen Charlotte actually does a lot of damage to Hulk, exposing a good portion of his skeleton, but Hulk completely no sells it. He didn't acknowledge it so it's may as well not have happened.
Writer can't wait until the final boss fight to ramp up the difficulty. That would be unsatisfying for readers. We need to see Hulk pushed to the brink by the minions to build tension for the showndown.
@@DreadedDormammu yeah I guess you have a point he is the hulk after all he's stronger than the devil
I love the story but yeah, the constant change in artists is hurting my interest with this book.
With a face drawn like that, all of a sudden I have hopes of being a movie star😂 looks like a bad version of that kid in she-hulk.
Geez, has it went to crap! Was really looking forward to Klein's art work, but it's all been so disappointing.
I think everyone thought the same good things at the beginning, but now the story has virtually stopped, the art is awful... cancelled....
The Art in Hulk is Trash! I'll buy issue 12 then I'm dropping this from my pull list. That leaves Ultimate Spider-man. We'll see how long that lasts. Marvel is creatively bankrupt. Right now I'm reading the amazing Spider-man omnibus vol 3, stories from the early 70s. Those are lights out stories, so good. Then I go back and read something modern and it's very apparent how far the Mighty have fallen.
Oh man. You weren’t kidding. The art is very off. Why does marvel do this? Delaying the issues would be a better idea.
Hulk needs to lose his sidekick and get his real artist back it fell off the shelf so bad and it's so boring now..
The art looks like Archie comics lmao
I've seen better art on Archie books
Awesome work guys
Art sells me on a comic first
I wouldn't mind so much if the art was amazing but it's been the opposite to that for a while now. I'm done with this book.
Looks like Mission Hill art.
Thor could restore the girl.
It's a filler arc it seems.. The story is not going anywhere and I don't like the art
The art reminds me of if an AI trained on Mike Mignola and then put through a shit filter...then another shittier filter.
Hulk Smash!
Man Marvel is such a joke.
I love you Wes but this Hulk run was never good
Just make the hulk the Green surfer . Instead of the silver surfer but with a bro surfer vibe 😂. Surfer smash bro.
I bought that issue. The art is terrible. It looks so rushed.