Chris, great analysis by your guests, who were able to look at the organization from several different perspectives with useful compare/contrast examples (crime and business) to shed additional light. After the wrap-up, my first thought was how it would be to everyone's benefit that David Miscavige lead Scientology as long as possible, thus inflicting maximum damage to the cult.
Wow Yr discussion & guests were so interesting! I think discussing & explaining this perspective is really important. Apart from being fascinating, this will hopefully reach the people who need 2 hear it & help them find their way out of this abusive cult and/or help ex-members in their recovery - ThankU so much Chris. Here in the UK we don’t have much if any experience in cults, so 4 us this subject is totally fascinating but terrifying at the same time! So U deserve so much respect & Thanks 4 all the work u do. Sending luv n support from the UK! ❤️❤️💖💖💜💜🌸🌸☀️☀️
@@ChrisSheltonMsc Yr forever welcome!! U have actually helped me so much!! I’m severely physically disabled & bedridden & It can get insanely fricking boring!! But Utube seems 2 keep me going - Finding endless new fascinating channels & subjects!! I’m currently making my way thro Yr vids, Aaron’s growing up in Scientology channel & listening 2 Mike & Leah’s podcast. I’m mentally manic 😆 & need fascinating subjects 2 mentally analyse !! Altho I’m physically done for - horrific spinal injuries beyond all help now- btw - from my back being broken 25 years ago, aged just 24 (in the middle of my MSc !! In Environ. Science @Bath Uni - Congrats on getting Yr Masters Chris !!🤩Brilliant !!) by a violent psycho ex-boyfriend who made me pay with my life for leaving him - Hence, I’m drawn to subjects where ppl are abused/victimised as I can deeply empathise & relate. Mental analysis & emotional empathy - my Fave things 2 do!! So studying cults is my thing atm!! I’m sorry I can’t support u financially 2 say ThankU but I’m stuck on disability benefits but I watch all ur vids in Full, like & comment - 4 ‘the algorithm’ I hope it helps a bit. Sending all my Thanks, Respect, Luv & support from the UK!! 💖💖💜💜🌸🌸
I agree, in terms of Miscavige's bullying and intimidation technique, yes, but in terms of actually murdering people, like Gotti, no. Now, Miscavige may have killed people, but there's no proof of that. Gotti killed people, and there's a mountain of proof for that.
No john Gotti actually spent alot of time with his SON and his mother did have Contact with Gotti. His family even said he kept it separate for a long time until irv gotti got older. David miscaviage is a low life who will not see his own family. Its damn sad
David Miscavige is a classic sociopath that does not care about the feelings of others. This is why he is a billionaire with a shrinking number of worshipers. Miscavige is an incomplete person and he does not know it.
Interesting idea "sociopath". A brutalizing culture manufactures unfeeling, no-conscience, brutes. ... And once brutalized the condition locks in because there is a culture around it that reinforces as well as propagates it. Rondroidism does not have a monopoly on making psychopaths and the phenomenon is fairly commonplace in western culture. The psychopath-making cultural swamp of my own childhood came from the Church of England...
Every time i hear Jeff's name i always think of the new Jeff who has had sleep and a sun tan. A new Jeff who acted as if nothing happened after returning to the headbase from the RPF. A mark Headley story and its comedy gold.
~If Miscavige does all of the sudden drop dead, I'm wondering how whoever takes over gets a hold of the funds? It seems that David is the only one with access and probably knowledge of where all the money is.
Yeah I doubt he has a succession plan in place. Like any paranoid dictator he seems to have spent more time purging any precieved opponents rather than building Scientology as an organisation that can carry on after him.
If he does die suddenly, I think you're right, as I've said before. If they're profitable they can survive because they won't have to dip into the reserves. But if they're losing money when that happens, it will be a real problem. But the issue is that it would be difficult for a claimant to the throne to prove in court that they're legally entitled to take over. Hubbard set up a byzantine corporate structure in the 1980s but Miscavige has simply abandoned it, though it may remain in legal force. So anyone trying to appoint themselves as the new boss could be wrapped up in court for ages.
BRILLIANT!!! The key, the answer to all questions, discussions, contradictions (mysteries) is given by HUBBARD himself!! (unconsciously) You will find it in the small basic book he wrote: A new slant on life. Narcississm is a continuum. Ron, sadly, suffered from NPD: narcississtic personality disorder. (Miscavage is a very malignant narcississt) If you learn about NPD, the traits, behavior, cycles you will recognize it in a person, family and organisations. (future faking, isolation, financial abuse, manipulation etc.) A narcississt has a 'split' personality. (they create a mask to cover the traumatised self ) This book shows all traits of his NPD at different levels and... the foundation of Scientology. Childlike styl, the text: irrational, reversed truth, mixed copied statements, indoctrination, suppressive. His mask,( big ego): the writer, the filosoof, scientist. His hidden, dark side: dealers of chaos, powerless child and failed man. PAGE 21 he REVEALS the truth about founding Scientology (create a mysterie)and his 'splitted' self: (quote) "And the essential mysterie is---who is he ? There's no more essential mysterie than: who is that guy overthere"?
Did you grieve when LRH died? If you were too young do you recall your parent's reaction? Did you feel like you missed the grand old days of LRH's command coming to the seaorg after his time?
The attorneys will be able to dissolve things to THEIR benefit if something should happen to Miscavige. I don't think Miscavige has ALL of the power. He was NEVER educated enough to put this structure together.
when considering at successful organizational facilitators, there are three kinds: (1) those who manage (2) those who lead (3) those who manage AND lead leaders will always be better than managers! those who are proficient at leading and managing simultaneously will be more successful than both managers and leaders respectively. miscavige is a manager and he will run scientology into the ground because he has no leadership skills. like chris said, he’d rather use TVs and computers over human beings to audit and share information about the organization because he can control the technology. one of the most distinguishable traits of a manager is their need to control risk and their ability to create fear in order to maintain control in order to diminish or eradicate risk. this is a great article by Forbes that explains why leaders are superior. i hope everyone finds it as interesting as i do!: www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/williamarruda/2016/11/15/9-differences-between-being-a-leader-and-a-manager/amp/
Hi Chris. I always enjoy your work. You choose great topics and great guests. I would personally love to see you shift your method in interviewing a bit. I find that interviews are generally most effective and enjoyable when the host speaks almost not at all. Instead of giving information, the interviewer draws out the information from guests that he wants the audience to have. As an example of what I mean, I wonder if you have ever listened to "In Our Time" on BBC Radio 4 (also available as a podcast)? It seems like it would be right up your alley and the interviewer has really honed the skill of only adding a few tiny details when he feels that the audience might miss something important. The latest episode is on Ibsen, but the series covers everything from literature to history to science to philosophy, etc. I'm putting the link, for your enjoyment and your consideration. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b42q58
Well, I've done interviews and then I've done podcasts with guests and I want to be clear that I think there is a difference. I'll check out this link you're sending me. I just want to be clear that I often have quite a bit to say myself on the topics I choose to discuss and I want to get my words in too. I don't know if it's clear in this format that that is what I mean to be doing, but that is what I mean to be doing. And for the most part, my guests do talk as much as or more than I do. So it's not a mistake on my part or "bad interviewing skills" on my part that bring about me talking in these podcasts as much as my guests do. That all being said, and I hope that doesn't come across as defensive because I mean it to be explanatory rather than a retort, I'll see what I can do to not talk as much.
Chris Shelton I enjoy hearing your input. It is your podcast, and you are well informed on the topic, having had first-hand experience in this organization. Always enjoy your content. All the best to you, Sir. Regards from a gal in Buffalo. ✌🏼😊
I think I was the one who said that. I was a marketing weenie for years, so I get to say stuff like that. It used to be (and may still be) a Silicon Valley term used by engineers to describe people in marketing, who are inherently suspect because they're not smart enough to be an engineer.
Did anyone actually see the video that the thumbnail was taken from he looked like his left side of his face was sagging only hhafe of his mouth was moving possible stroke?
Chris, great analysis by your guests, who were able to look at the organization from several different perspectives with useful compare/contrast examples (crime and business) to shed additional light. After the wrap-up, my first thought was how it would be to everyone's benefit that David Miscavige lead Scientology as long as possible, thus inflicting maximum damage to the cult.
Wow Yr discussion & guests were so interesting! I think discussing & explaining this perspective is really important. Apart from being fascinating, this will hopefully reach the people who need 2 hear it & help them find their way out of this abusive cult and/or help ex-members in their recovery - ThankU so much Chris. Here in the UK we don’t have much if any experience in cults, so 4 us this subject is totally fascinating but terrifying at the same time! So U deserve so much respect & Thanks 4 all the work u do. Sending luv n support from the UK! ❤️❤️💖💖💜💜🌸🌸☀️☀️
Thank you!
@@ChrisSheltonMsc Yr forever welcome!! U have actually helped me so much!! I’m severely physically disabled & bedridden & It can get insanely fricking boring!! But Utube seems 2 keep me going - Finding endless new fascinating channels & subjects!! I’m currently making my way thro Yr vids, Aaron’s growing up in Scientology channel & listening 2 Mike & Leah’s podcast. I’m mentally manic 😆 & need fascinating subjects 2 mentally analyse !! Altho I’m physically done for - horrific spinal injuries beyond all help now- btw - from my back being broken 25 years ago, aged just 24 (in the middle of my MSc !! In Environ. Science @Bath Uni - Congrats on getting Yr Masters Chris !!🤩Brilliant !!) by a violent psycho ex-boyfriend who made me pay with my life for leaving him - Hence, I’m drawn to subjects where ppl are abused/victimised as I can deeply empathise & relate. Mental analysis & emotional empathy - my Fave things 2 do!! So studying cults is my thing atm!! I’m sorry I can’t support u financially 2 say ThankU but I’m stuck on disability benefits but I watch all ur vids in Full, like & comment - 4 ‘the algorithm’ I hope it helps a bit. Sending all my Thanks, Respect, Luv & support from the UK!! 💖💖💜💜🌸🌸
I've always been fascinated by the Scientology cult and David Miscavige. So deeply interesting how people get sucked into it.
This was super interesting. They were awesome guests and I love that you give them all the time they need to talk without interrupting them.
Something about John Ps voice, the way the speaks and explains things so well...I could listen all day! I sound like a fan-girl!
That's very kind. Flattery will get you everywhere!
You are doing the right thing!!
Altho I miss & prefer 2c a human speaking! Even without video, this discussion was fascinating! ThankU guys! Sending lots luv & support from UK!💖💖🌸🌸
The comparison between Miscavage and John Gotti seems pretty apt.
I agree, in terms of Miscavige's bullying and intimidation technique, yes, but in terms of actually murdering people, like Gotti, no. Now, Miscavige may have killed people, but there's no proof of that. Gotti killed people, and there's a mountain of proof for that.
I watched Ready Player One and Ben Mendlesons character seems to be based on Miscavige.
Gotti on his worst day is a better dude than Misgavige. Absolutely 100%.
No john Gotti actually spent alot of time with his SON and his mother did have Contact with Gotti. His family even said he kept it separate for a long time until irv gotti got older. David miscaviage is a low life who will not see his own family. Its damn sad
David Miscavige is a classic sociopath that does not care about the feelings of others. This is why he is a billionaire with a shrinking number of worshipers.
Miscavige is an incomplete person and he does not know it.
You know his personal wealth or are you merely making things up just like scientology ?
Interesting idea "sociopath". A brutalizing culture manufactures unfeeling, no-conscience, brutes. ... And once brutalized the condition locks in because there is a culture around it that reinforces as well as propagates it. Rondroidism does not have a monopoly on making psychopaths and the phenomenon is fairly commonplace in western culture. The psychopath-making cultural swamp of my own childhood came from the Church of England...
If he is destroying Scientology, thats a good thing. The demise of that cult would be a very positive event
Every time i hear Jeff's name i always think of the new Jeff who has had sleep and a sun tan. A new Jeff who acted as if nothing happened after returning to the headbase from the RPF. A mark Headley story and its comedy gold.
You should be on Spotify. Would listen from there everytime
Hmmmm....
Yes!!!! I have been thinking that too
Chris Shelton Yes, please!
Another great podcast. Thanks
Hasn't SCIENTOLOGY always been destructive ?
Really great episode.
It is possible for a Compliance Officer to become a CEO.He could go from Compliance to Information to Finance to CEO.
regarding "perfect" auditors- isn't that like expecting a basketball player (say) to "perfect" every skill before playing a match?
Ya, except basketball is real.
Good! Let him!
Is that a cat making noise in the background or am I hearing things again? It's in the beginning.
Lol. Yep, that was Seven in the background. I got him quiet but not before he got in there.
thats his wife
~If Miscavige does all of the sudden drop dead, I'm wondering how whoever takes over gets a hold of the funds? It seems that David is the only one with access and probably knowledge of where all the money is.
Yeah I doubt he has a succession plan in place. Like any paranoid dictator he seems to have spent more time purging any precieved opponents rather than building Scientology as an organisation that can carry on after him.
If he does die suddenly, I think you're right, as I've said before. If they're profitable they can survive because they won't have to dip into the reserves. But if they're losing money when that happens, it will be a real problem. But the issue is that it would be difficult for a claimant to the throne to prove in court that they're legally entitled to take over. Hubbard set up a byzantine corporate structure in the 1980s but Miscavige has simply abandoned it, though it may remain in legal force. So anyone trying to appoint themselves as the new boss could be wrapped up in court for ages.
Gern Blanstun the money is in the real estate . He will lrobably sell it all when the church dies and buy an island to hide on
Chris I wish you could go on Leah’s show and talk about this
The inverted trinity
Father: Elron Hubbard
Son: David Miscaviage
Holy Spirit: Tom Cruise
How often is David Miscavige audited? Even LRH was audited, right?
Never.
Hi from South Africa.
BRILLIANT!!! The key, the answer to all questions, discussions, contradictions (mysteries) is given by HUBBARD himself!! (unconsciously) You will find it in the small basic book he wrote: A new slant on life. Narcississm is a continuum. Ron, sadly, suffered from NPD: narcississtic personality disorder. (Miscavage is a very malignant narcississt) If you learn about NPD, the traits, behavior, cycles you will recognize it in a person, family and organisations. (future faking, isolation, financial abuse, manipulation etc.) A narcississt has a 'split' personality. (they create a mask to cover the traumatised self ) This book shows all traits of his NPD at different levels and... the foundation of Scientology. Childlike styl, the text: irrational, reversed truth, mixed copied statements, indoctrination, suppressive. His mask,( big ego): the writer, the filosoof, scientist. His hidden, dark side: dealers of chaos, powerless child and failed man. PAGE 21 he REVEALS the truth about founding Scientology (create a mysterie)and his 'splitted' self: (quote) "And the essential mysterie is---who is he ? There's no more essential mysterie than: who is that guy overthere"?
Miscavidge started sleeping w Hubbard when he dropped out of high school in ninth grade
Boy, Miscavaige looks exactly like Tom Cruise, especially in his eyes
A religion based in science fiction.
WHY I can’t i see a video?
Did you grieve when LRH died? If you were too young do you recall your parent's reaction? Did you feel like you missed the grand old days of LRH's command coming to the seaorg after his time?
They have billions of dollars and let's face it are lead military dictorial style. So they are here for at least decades to come.
The attorneys will be able to dissolve things to THEIR benefit if something should happen to Miscavige. I don't think Miscavige has ALL of the power. He was NEVER educated enough to put this structure together.
Is SHELLY still alive or is dead?? Why is a problem for Scientology to unswerving that question publicly? Is that an X File? Bizarre and criminal !
Are you taking notes yet Dave? See what your Golden Age of Showers really did? 😆
It appears Miscavige was guilty of alter-is.
when considering at successful organizational facilitators, there are three kinds:
(1) those who manage
(2) those who lead
(3) those who manage AND lead
leaders will always be better than managers! those who are proficient at leading and managing simultaneously will be more successful than both managers and leaders respectively. miscavige is a manager and he will run scientology into the ground because he has no leadership skills. like chris said, he’d rather use TVs and computers over human beings to audit and share information about the organization because he can control the technology. one of the most distinguishable traits of a manager is their need to control risk and their ability to create fear in order to maintain control in order to diminish or eradicate risk.
this is a great article by Forbes that explains why leaders are superior. i hope everyone finds it as interesting as i do!: www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/williamarruda/2016/11/15/9-differences-between-being-a-leader-and-a-manager/amp/
At the risk of being 'that guy'--inspectors-general.
Hi Chris. I always enjoy your work. You choose great topics and great guests. I would personally love to see you shift your method in interviewing a bit. I find that interviews are generally most effective and enjoyable when the host speaks almost not at all. Instead of giving information, the interviewer draws out the information from guests that he wants the audience to have. As an example of what I mean, I wonder if you have ever listened to "In Our Time" on BBC Radio 4 (also available as a podcast)? It seems like it would be right up your alley and the interviewer has really honed the skill of only adding a few tiny details when he feels that the audience might miss something important. The latest episode is on Ibsen, but the series covers everything from literature to history to science to philosophy, etc. I'm putting the link, for your enjoyment and your consideration. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b42q58
Well, I've done interviews and then I've done podcasts with guests and I want to be clear that I think there is a difference. I'll check out this link you're sending me. I just want to be clear that I often have quite a bit to say myself on the topics I choose to discuss and I want to get my words in too. I don't know if it's clear in this format that that is what I mean to be doing, but that is what I mean to be doing. And for the most part, my guests do talk as much as or more than I do. So it's not a mistake on my part or "bad interviewing skills" on my part that bring about me talking in these podcasts as much as my guests do. That all being said, and I hope that doesn't come across as defensive because I mean it to be explanatory rather than a retort, I'll see what I can do to not talk as much.
Hi Chris, thanks for the reply. I just meant it as a preference, for your consideration.
Chris Shelton I enjoy hearing your input. It is your podcast, and you are well informed on the topic, having had first-hand experience in this organization. Always enjoy your content. All the best to you, Sir. Regards from a gal in Buffalo. ✌🏼😊
"Marketing weenies."
I think I was the one who said that. I was a marketing weenie for years, so I get to say stuff like that. It used to be (and may still be) a Silicon Valley term used by engineers to describe people in marketing, who are inherently suspect because they're not smart enough to be an engineer.
Did anyone actually see the video that the thumbnail was taken from he looked like his left side of his face was sagging only hhafe of his mouth was moving possible stroke?
Joshua Steele Missmanage (as I call him) has always had a crooked mouth/speaking style. IMHO it's just getting worse as he ages.
Yes! He's so mysterious I want to know more about him