I genuinely feel more awful about Viv and her team being harassed over this this drama than the art itself. As a black person, I don't care about my own said voodoo-related culture being used creatively when the character himself is half-creole. What even is the issue here? Voodoo art has been used for Dead By Daylight, Scooby Doo villains, and countless cartoon references. Let artists draw.
Pretty sure Alastor isn’t in hell for being a practitioner of voodoo. He was a serial killer/cannibal. People will really find anything to attack Viv at this point. It’s pathetic and reeks of jealousy.
Something I find funny is that well...technically- Alastor, when he was alive WAS a person of color. Mixed- race Creole...meaning at the least he had a decent tan to him. In fact a lot of human fan art of him depicts him with a tan. He also lived in New Orleans...where voodoo was very prevalent.
His mom also taught him voodoo… and she’s canonically in heaven, Alaster used voodoo for evil, and he’s not in hell for using it he’s in hell for being a canibal (sorry I have bad spelling)
@@glitchhoffe1293 Yes, that's what I was thinking. It wasn't the voodoo itself that was inherently evil, it was the fact that he used it to be evil, two very different things. It's like people who believed in God so they were nice and went to church vs people who believed in God so they enthusiastically participated in the inquisition. They both believed in the same thing, but one group used it for good and the other used it for actual genocide, which is evil.
@@liamorrison4484well said, like anything else, voodoo can be used for evil as well as good. People are just too quick to get offended on other's behalf I think
As a POC myself, here’s my take. It’s confirmed that Alastor is half Creole, so he’s a POC. But in Viv’s version of hell, you’re not going to look anything like you did on Earth, race included. You literally die and end up looking like something related to your death. Alastor was killed by a hunter who mistook him for a deer, therefore he has deer characteristics. Vaggie was Hispanic when she was alive, Angel Dust was Italian. So changing the design of Alastor is kind of counter productive. I really don’t think Viv is racist, considering how she’s supported several BIPOC creators before. Also, people are upset over Viv’s portrayal of Voodoo… But no one complains about her portrayal of Christianity as a whole? I mean, she literally has angels that are just as bad as sinners… Yet I don’t hear people complaining then… I’m a Christian and I know how to enjoy the show for what it is and don’t get offended.
Matters your use of creole that eord is a post colonial word for mixed race groups world eide created by colonialism take alaska in alaska creole meams somone whos ancestry is mix of rusian snd native.
I’m gonna be real here. I didnt even know voodoo was a religion up until now. The only thing I knew correlated to voodoo was the “voodoo doll.” I know for a fact I’m not the only one who didnt know it was a religion, but some people will act as if they knew it was since day one, and that theyre deFeNdiNg a reLigiOn being a hero in their eyes.
It's okay, neither did they 5 minutes ago. They just look for reasons to attack Viv (or really anyone) over nothing. It's always the cartoon picture Twitter people whom are terminally online.
@@TaliEpshteinmight i ask why you refer to 'cartoon profile pics' being associated with Twitter weirdos? hazbin hotel is literally a cartoon in itself so people who like hazbin hotel might often like cartoons in general, or at least adult cartoons, but cartoons are cartoons, so i don't quite understand your logic
Voodoo is actually an umbrella term describing pre-imperial African religions, Louisiana Voodoo(the voodoo Alastor practices) is unique as it’s a combination of African polytheism and Christianity and is completely non-centralized. So it’s not a closed religion.
Are people really forgetting that these are demons and not humans? Tbh I find this drama absolutely unnecessary and just- overall ridiculous. People like these are nit picking to the point of constant harrassment on viv's part and people seem to forget why she doesnt take critism well is because of this behavior. yes appropriate racial coding is important, but this to an extent is outright harmful to vivzie.
It is funny how some people are not even black are trying to pretend to care. Why is vivziepop getting heat when Hollywood does this far more and far more racist then anything these people are claiming. Yet no one says anything. They are attacking her only for a small idiotic reason. As someone who is of colour and mixed I support vivziepop and what she is doing. She has not done anything out of malice towards any group and it is easy to see when you have actual racism and discrimination.
@@VintageToilet I ain't sneaking nothing in. I am black and mixed with Japanese and native American. More black then anything else. The context of how I worded it was cause RUclipsrs say poc. So I am replying in that manner. Along with the twitter (X) dweller.
@@Bluestlark my point. But if enough people say something then things will happen. Like how people said something about amber heard and guess what. They conformed to what the people asked. We set our foot down to the real racist they won't continue l. But vivziepop is not like them. No it is not me being a simp for the series or her work. I have seen intentionally racist things In big Hollywood movies that are not even that old and yet people don't really say much. We need to call out places like Disney and Pixar when they make racist stereotypes of use and other people. They can't sue millions of people into the ground. Legally as well.
Didn't you know? Christianity is "white", cause its the most common religion in europe. (Even though it originated in the middle east, and it is also very commonly practiced in South America and Africa, but whatever) Therefore, you are save and encouraged to sh*t all over it, cause "white" things are "evil".
Same with islam. No one calls you a christiophobe when you mock Christianity, but you're somebow an "iSlAmOpObE" when you mock islam. What a stupid double standard.
vivziepop fans when they realize christianity is a religion that was used to colonize land throughout history therefore was a perpetrator of oppression while voodoo was the exact type of practice christianity was oppressing:
Yeah even as a Christian I still LIKE her content it doesn't offend me, people have the right to not like certain religious beliefs do to trauma or I guess preference and just want to be rude, but people shouldn't hold certain bias higher to other religions or practices, religion is for everyone to explore and find yourself! Or to make a satire of,
So, like Alistair, I'm mixed race creole and have family in Louisiana. I'm giving Vizzypop my extra race card, so it's cool. Everyone needs to step away from the Twitter and touch grass. I didn't see people complaining about pentagrams being used or the fact that spirits (that some see as actual deities) from the Ars Goetia are being used as characters. The entire show is about the hypocrisy of heaven and unfairness of hell. So it would track that in this world voodoo would automatically be seen as bad and not worthy. Every pantheon imaginable has been used in some form of entertainment IP as of now. Black people survived slavery and still experience actual systemic racism, discrimination, police violence and judicial inequality. We can survive a fu*king cartoon. Besides, as I said, vizzypop has my spare race card to play now, she's my guest. Calm down edge lords.
Also from Louisiana and trying to learn Cajun French. All the people claiming they know more about voodoo than they do without knowing that the current voodoo high priestess is a Jewish lady are acting like a bunch of couyons.
I'm genuinely curious about this since you said you were mixed, I am also mixed, but I was personally mad that she made Alastor mixed after the Voodoo controversy because it felt like a cheap way to get out of it. I feel like most of the other people arguing aren't mixed, so I was just curious what you thought.
The thing that is weird to me is that when the pilot dropped, Alastor had Voodoo symbols when he was using his powers (I think he did). I didn’t see any controversy come from that. But when merch from a show 5 YEARS in the making drops, people start a controversy. I understand that Voodoo is a religion (something I didn’t know until the controversy started), but no one pointed out the symbols with Alastor until now. It just doesn’t make sense. It might be because Vivziepop is known to be controversial now or that Hazbin Hotel is becoming more popular, but it just isn’t adding up how no one pointed out the Voodoo symbols from the pilot (By the way this is from my perspective. If there was a controversy when the Pilot dropped about it, I’m not aware of it. This is just from what I’ve seen and heard.) I also think that the people starting the controversy are brand new to Vivziepop because if they watched the pilot and were aware of what Voodoo is, this would have been called out years ago and this wouldn’t be happening. In my opinion, I don’t think Vivziepop had racist intentions. I also don’t think she’s even racist. I just believe she didn’t do enough research to understand that what she’s doing is (I’m going to say potentially) wrong.
Its been called out during the time Alastor was dropped during pilot tho, you just didnt saw that, its been happening for years and people are arguably more pissed Vizziepop never changes
I raised issues about Voodoo representation after I found out about Voodoo being a real religion from an unrelated video. Hardly anyone batted an eye at the time. I don’t think Viv is racist for not knowing that. Voodoo has long been depicted in similar fashion in American media for years and I think it’s unfair for people who just learned that to be looking down on people who were just as ignorant as they were 30 seconds ago. if people are going to get mad about Alastor, then they better also be mad about Dr. Facilier and Chucky the doll.
or they're upset they're wrong,, as they always are. its not vivzie's fault people chose to ignore context, nor is it vivzie's fault people will always choose to do so when they need an enemy to invent@@spacetofu5306
I've literally seen some of the people who are calling this racist be way more racist, one of them called Vivz a racist white woman and when they were corrected that she's latina, they literally said she shouldn't be called latina because she's too pale and doesn't speak Spanish
What a freaking hypocrite, there are other idiot saying that her being Hispanic doesn’t make her POC because of her her being pale. They’re not realizing how hypocritical and racist they’re being and I don’t think they realize this can cause identity issues.
I swear, they’ll try to cancel Viv if she so much as breathes a way they don’t like. Constructive criticism is one thing, but straight-up harassment over such minor things is inexcusable.
They just want to hate someone if they really wanted to give her good feedback to inprove, they wouldn't be harassing the people that are the voices of her caracters or the people that work for her to get a paycheck
@@DrAngelKins That doesn't make it ok, fam. That's like saying "I can make Jesus look like a hippy but I can't make Buddha look like an 80s Hip-Hop dancer."
With how often Voodoo is depicted in various ways (most times evil with some good in there), this is legitimately the first time I've actually seen people get bent about it being used in a negative way
And when they claim that a bad light was casted solely because of white people (which is funny, as they are racially pinging an issue, something they bitch a lot about) but then seem to forget terrible acts committed by non-white voodoo followers. The problem is not race, it's actions Hell, I would say in games like cyberpunk voodoo'ism is portrayed in an even worse light. I don't think I need to explain who the voodoo boys are...
Unlikely. Twitter users tend to see "microagressions" (whatever the hell those are) in everything you say or do, and actively try to look for anything that could possibly paint someone in a bad light. Kinda like a stalker with a rage boner.
I'm pretty sure they don't nor trully understand what is actually being practised in such religions. They just want control over the narrative and Vivzie is their platform for their "utopia" Though I hardly trust any people from twitter understanding the nuance of the world being such a basement dwealler that has never gotten out of america and even less from the state they reside in. I'm pretty sure Alastor is just a bad guy using a religion to it's own advantage, I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be seen as bad in general. But people on twitter take fictional creations like real life soo.. there's that.
Nah. Its just another point on the scoreboard. Half or more of the people commenting probably don't actually know shit about the religion outside of what they read on google
While I do think that using real voodoo symbols is a risky idea, the rest of the criticism is complete horse sh!t. Alastor does not need to be ‘’more black’’ to be depicted using voodoo. That right there is *actual racism* . I remember watching a Simpsons episode in which Bart uses voodoo to help people get pregnant. (Ep name: What to expect when Bart’s expecting) May I remind you that Bart is a white American boy. So if Vivze is getting criticised for the stuff with Alastor surely Matt groening should have gotten hate too. Yet that is nowhere to be found. Also how in the name of Jesus H. Christ is McDonald’s, KFC and Starbucks supporting the Genocide of Palestine. Overall, I do agree with the fact that Viv probably shouldn’t have used real symbols for the cards. But, the rest is complete bollocks. (Remember this is just my opinion. Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong)
🤦🏾♀️ Do you not think these same people would NOT criticize the Simpsons if they knew about it? They obviously would , but because Viv’s thing is more relevant at the moment they’re criticizing this. That’s like saying anyone who criticizes something needs to be all knowing of ANY SUBJECT that relates back to their criticism and criticize it. That’s unrealistic and impossible dude.
Wow, this video really delves into the recent drama in the community. It's crucial to have open discussions about these issues to foster a healthier community. The insights shared here shed light on different perspectives, and it's clear that addressing concerns is vital for growth. Let's hope for positive changes and a more united community moving forward. Thanks for providing such a comprehensive overview!
ayy lmao is literally the same person who defends viv despite having no relations with her defending a random person on the internet. I wonder what would happen if helluva/hazbin didn't exist then ayy lmao would probably get a better job than he already has.
No, when you see something you don’t like, you make a video on it to defend Viv. Def a fan of you man but you can’t say you scroll past it when a good portion of your videos are discussing Viv/HB/HH drama. All the people who “moan and cry” are your content, dude lmao edit: not you editing the comment so it looks like you care about this?? like okay man 😭
I can at least understand why people are upset. The use of Voodoo in the show can perpetuate harmful stereotypes and is clearly cultural appropriation, not just with Viv not being black, but also with Alastor also not being black. Some people might bring up The Princess and the Frog and Dr Facilier, but that movie made a clear distinction between bad people who use Voodoo and good people who use Voodoo, with Dr Facilier who was evil and Mama Odie who was good, and also Dr Facilier was actually black.
It probably was an issue to people but y’all don’t pay attention dude. Was Twitter a thing way back when this stereotyping started? No. So be a little more thoughtful dude.
@@VintageToiletkeep making problems where there are none. there wasn't really people back then saying it's racist lol, there were however people who thought it's 'too ''demonic' or 'evil'' but that's unrelated to the so called 'religion' that people are suddenly talking about now.
@IrisThatOneGothMf I'm honestly suprised to see a person with a pride flag pfp actually making sense and being chill normally its those types that are the ones foaming at the mouth about dumb crap like this. Good on you lol
@@lonerevenant0 tbh, that's on you for grouping lgbtq with dumb takes and awful behavior, all kinds of people say/do dumb shit over this kinda stuff, like in general, we don't gotta stereotype groups
At this point anything from Twitter just sounds like a bunch of people bored of their lives and rustle up some trouble over something they don't truly care about other than getting attention and then vanish as soon as they get what they want or jump onto the next drama train for that dopamine rush.
canonically the only use we've seen him use it for thus far is protecting and upgrading the hotel.. thats there to help people redeem themselves so they can go to heaven.. whoops guess we havn't actually seen him use it for evil at all
Just because you're religious doesn't make you a good person. I really don't understand why people have to make up shit to get mad about. These people need to touch some grass.
I definitely understand the dislike of voodoo in the show (and I personally dislike it when it comes to doing my own research), but harassing people over the situation is definitely the worst move possible. I would love to see a change to the way the religion is shown so far, and it’s possible to see that since we are getting a season 2 that is in development. If people want a change in how it’s depicted, it’s definitely possible to campaign for it in season 2, but harassing Viv, twitter randos, and Amir (who has no control over how the show, how it portrays Alastor, and how it portrays voodoo) is counterproductive to see a change in how voodoo is perceived. It really just needs to be a combined effort to have a discussion, and Viv’s willingness to listen.
okay but voodoo has always been associated with evil in fiction. we do not need to make her change shit. it's all fictional anyway, it's not like she's calling people irl demons. it's not her fault that's how voodoo has been used in fiction for so long. plus let's be honest here, just cuz it's shown as bad in fiction doesn't mean she's referring to the so called 'religion' i actually don't think most people knew there was a whole ass religion based on voodoo. everyone knows voodoo as what they heard in fiction, but is that a bad thing? I'd say no. cuz fiction does not represent reality in it's entirety. fiction is fiction.
@@IrisThatOneGothMf not to mention voodoo can actually be used for evil. Evil people EXIST. Alastor is a cannibalistic murderer and people have an issue with the fact that he. A man who was born in LOUISIANA is associated with voodoo. Which has both a good and bad side. Like cmon people.
@@IrisThatOneGothMf While I understand that fiction is it’s own separate thing, the portrayal of voodoo in both fiction and media that we consume has directly lead to the demonization of it, and it being “evil” or “bad.” And while Vivzie is not at fault for how voodoo has been portrayed for the past 100s of years, not changing how it is used in the series things helps contribute to keeping the stigma surrounding the practice. Even if Hazbin is a smaller scale piece of media compared to something like Princess and the Frog (which has a similar focus on “evil voodoo”), it still has reach to people all over the world, so changing how the religion is portrayed in the show can help strengthened understanding of the practices involved so it’s not watered down to being evil. Just because fiction doesn’t fully portray our reality doesn’t mean it’s not rooted in it, and it’s very easy for people to view voodoo and people who practice it negatively because of something like Hazbin. By no means is Vivzie forced to change how she portrays the practice, but if she did, it would definitely help show that voodoo isn’t evil or something to be scared of, especially since a lot of people are fans of her work.
@@cantalnoise the thing is tho, I'm pretty sure most people don't actually believe in stuff like that anyway. plus most people probably haven't even heard of this religion. so it is very not likely that much people will think those people of the religion are evil, if you are trying to show the world that those peoples religion exists, perhaps that'll be more harmful to them than fiction ever does, but people mainly know voodoo only because of fiction. and most people don't actually view it as a real thing. so i think people should just chill.
Some people just want to hate someone so bad, i have seen voodoo being used by scooby doo villains so many times and even Disney made a movie with voodoo But suddenly when a small creator makes something with voodoo in it it's suddenly wrong
@@birb70 yeah but it doesn't mean that you eat mcdonald sometime that you support what happen in palestine, its not like the war is gonna stop if she stop eating there anyway
One comparison that I'd like to make is the fact that if it was any other religion, people wouldn't be mad. Christianity has been used numerous times in a bad way, yet nobody complained. This also isn't the first time Voodoo has been used in media. Princess and The Frog and Chucky also had Voodoo. Heck, Chucky was white as hell. Was that also an issue back then? Also, chucky was taught by a black guy with the purpose of using it for good. We don't even know Alastor's full backstory. He could've had a family member teach him or got permission to learn, and just happened to use it for evil. Don't use 1 person to draw a conclusion about a whole religion. that's like one person hating ice cream and suddenly ice cream is the most disgusting thing on earth. As for the race thing, I've already made a RUclips comment and Twitter post about that.
@@tornadodee148 exactly! And he could've been taught for the purpose of good. If you give a man an ancient sword used to kill evil, he could easily use that sword to slaughter innocents. Is that a bad representation of the sword? No. Just because one man decided to use the sword for evil doesn't mean all the people who wielded the sword did the same.
@@NocturnalLoner True, also near sure Alastor's mom that taught him voodoo, she is on heaven no doubt because no way in hell Alastor wouldn't have hunted her down to talk with her
@@Aureonw yeah! I think Vivzie confirmed once that Alastor is a major Mama's boy. If she was in hell he would most likely hang around her all the time.
If people wanna find a problem, why not ask the people in Africa whom practice voodoo??? Even if you’re black, you can’t go around telling people what is considered offensive or not UNLESS you actually are from the country of origin, and practice the religion. Primary sources are so important in these situations
Alastor is only so far confirmed to be Creole, which is more like an ethnicity, and isn't limited to race. There are lots of light skinned and straight up white Creole people in Louisiana. While I would love for him to be black design-wise and for the diversity of the cast, it's really strange for people to be claiming that Voodoo is closed to only black people when that is historically definitely not the case. Erasing light-skinned Creoles and properly initiated non-black Voodoo practitioners is a really weird hill to die on.
Voodoo isn't technically practised in Africa, its a Caribbean religion that actually started as a form of blending Catholicism and African religions. However fiction is not reality. Mind you maybe I'm just sensitive as I've had people tell me my attempts to create and then respect an entire culture in D&D based on an aspect of my personal cultural heritage was racist.
@@psychotophatcatngl for me it would feel odd if Alastor would be revealed so a non-black creole though since Voodoo is still heavily influenced by African religion
Vaggie looks like her face though. She has a hooked nose and darker skin. Angel is literally covered in fur and has no human features to interpret. Alastor literally does though. Take away his ears and antlers and he’s just a guy.
It's honestly hilarious how they didn't start with this years ago when the pilot dropped, but NOW they decide to start up drama for no damn reason other than to bully others to make themselves feel better.
I also have not herd of an official design for Alastor from when he was human,you have souls taking up the forms of spiders he could have possibly been black or even mixed,plus Voodoo is shown often time's in shows and movies and there are many things similar to voodoo that get mistaken for it in movies as well. I don't really get why everybody is losing it over a fictional character nobody knows the actual OFFICIAL backstory of from a show about hell? For all anybody knows Alastor could have learned it while alive from somebody else,learned it after dyeing from somebody else or have been even self taught from things like books or something that he found and then expanded on. I get that people are mad that it could be technically racist but there's literally next to nothing known about Alastor yet,and quite a few things have been changed over time with the shows Viv makes. Atleast as far as I have herd,know or seen from everything.
There is a comic with it he is a white man but it is really irrelevant if I as a Gael have to be fine with other cultures using a bastardized version of druid beliefs (because who actually gives a fuck) So a vindictive man uses a religion that targets others using one's strong emotions, that was birthed in your home region, it makes sense.
It was confirmed that alastor was half creole, which explains why he practiced voodoo in life because that's his religion. Honestly due to the fact that this depiction of hell is Christian, it actually makes MORE SENSE that the voodoo is depicted as dark and evil due to the fact that that's how Christianity views things like voodoo.
@Scyclo okay so it makes even less sense then I thought for people to be bitching. I freaking hate this idiotic culture war that has absolutely zero point
also how much you wanna bet that the SECOND his human form is shown that Viv will have TEN TIMES the outrage, no matter if he is browner or rosier than his greyish UNDEAD depiction as a DEMON? browner: "oh you are black washing because of the backlash you got" rosier: "oh! oh! you see, I knew he was white all along!"🤦♀ even tho he is mixed race and half creole and saying stuff like "you aren't black or white enough for your ethnicity/religion" is racist in itself.😓
Getting mad at her for eating at KFC really makes the actual talking points here feel like just excuses to hate on someone. The miss use of faith is bad, but getting mad at someone for eating at KFC has got to be the most I just want to be mad thing I have ever heard. Get mad for valid reasons. Don't get mad for a valid reason and then completely undermine it by pointing out a completely random thing that doesn't matter.
They're referring to the free palestine movement. There's a genocide happening in palestine through Israel's military. Children and pregnant women are targeted the most. Homes are being destroyed. And people are being bombed. The US government is also helping fund said government, and so are some if it's big companies. The top 3 contributors are McDonalds, Starbucks, and Disney. So they're a boycott moment to avoid these companies and many more if you can (though it's hard to cause a lot of american companies support it. More than not) I'm hopes of either Palestine getting back the land that they have owned for a thousand years, that Israel's trying to occupy; or at the very least a ceasefire. If you would like sources and sites on the matter lmk but I'd def research because it's sad and devastating what's going on. Hope that clears things up? Also I don't think it inherently makes her racist to eat at these places? She either doesn't know about it, doesn't think the boycotts will make a difference and feels hopeless, or just doesn't care about it. I really hope it's the first one tho and that she learns about it and speaks up about it; maybe even in her animations. ❤
I’m honestly very confused, so correct me if I’m wrong. Are people mad because of his trading card using voodoo symbols? Didn’t in the pilot when he said “I would’ve done so” he has symbols floating around him as well? And they’re also mad at her for eating at Starbucks, McDonald’s, etc. It’s a fast food place, you can eat whatever food you like. Note: I’m not defending nor attacking, my opinion on this situation is neutral. I’m just confused on what exactly is going on.
Iirc, people did point out that the pilot had voodoo sigils and that it demonized the religion, it just wasn’t at a boiling point like it is now. It’s been years since the pilot though so it’s hard to gauge how much discussion was had about the topic
People just gouging as much as possible without knowing anything. Thats what actually happen. We only see the pilot without any answer and people are fuming because viv ( a small content creator) put a character that using voodoo in hell saying they demonized the religion while stay silent when hollywood did way worse to the religion. From my perspective, people are upset because they want drama and more and more people joining the drama train without knowing what happen. Y'know twitter being the usual twitter.
I like how all of these people are fine with the portrayal of heaven and hell, gratuitous violence, sex and drug use but utilize a handful of voodoo symbols that likely don't mean anything while scattered about like that and they come crawling out of the woodwork.
Makes me wonder why these people aren’t mad over Chucky, a white doll, using voodoo throughout most of his movie franchise. But seriously, all of this Viv drama is just stupid and it’s getting very annoying
It’s double standards these lunatics pick and choose what they like and who they want to target and they probably hated Viv anyways so they are having a field day with this 🙄
Because the outrage is fad. Gives these empty husks a brief glimpse into what is like to matter for a few moments before the realization that they are nothing settles in again.
That’s funny cause my brother and I were just watching all the Chucky movies during October and I was like, I thought only black people or biracial people could use voodoo, maybe Chucky is just a light skinned black person lol or mixed.
Because it's a whole different ball game from past controversies, real people in real communities are actually getting offended and it's justified for once
Look I been trying to back up Viv for a decade now, this is the one time I think it's right for people of a religion to be angry they've been depicted without consent or permission of a priest or priestess. That's a fuckup on Vivzie. but she still doesn't deserve the harrassment.@@Pudemon1rakete
@@spectre2803 You don't need consent of a religion to depict it. That's called free speech and I'm pretty sure viv never got "permission" from any christian authority to depict it aswell yet noone cares or complains about it because they can't farm minority points.
omfg, I can't deal with the sensivity with people online, Im so sick of people treating the tiniest details as "oppression", I can see the voodoo drama but they just had to keep kicking the dead horse, we've all been waiting for this for 4 years and if this show gets cancelled I swear the Internet is going to be an all out war
Imagine if it gets canceled not only after Keith David expressed his excitement at getting to sing, but also after what happened in episode 4. It just ended there. That would be insanely maddening. I'd feel especially sad for Keith. Guys is a legend and I love hearing him voice Husk.
I do like how most of the people redesigning Alastor are just making him black, despite the fact that he's supposed to be mixed and we've already seen that the skin colour sinners have in hell doesn't reflect the skin colour they had when they were alive, as demonstrated by Mrs Mayberry from Helluva Boss. They shouldn't look human at all! To do that literally throws out ideas like consistency with lore which people claim Viv doesn't have!
The amount of drama over the hazbin hotel everything is nothing short of just crazy in my opinion it’s gotten the point where I could probably make an entire 7 hour analysis on every drama.
i feel bad for viv, she is already dealing with alot, i know about the criticim back in summer when it got delayed, i was disappointed but wasn't mad, now attacking viv over the merch, i feel so bad for her :"(
While I get some of the drama but I don't ,alastor in the pre comics and information that was dropped was bullied as kid and if I remember correctly someone brought this up on tumblr around the pilot and viv said something along the lines of "people treated him as a monster so he became one" that would mean he took to using voodoo misguidedly like the shadow man from princess and the frog.I get why people are mad but I think some people are just blowing it out of proportion because they want to ride the twitter high and not actually give constructive criticism.Viv though definitely needs to make a statement on this to explain what is going on and possibly try to edit parts of alastors symbols to be more deer like so everyone involved is happy and maybe like helluva boss for the 1st season put warnings like"evil voodoo""misuse of voodoo" to let people know they are listening and trying to correct anything that may be offensive.
I have a same opinion regarding Alastor. I think he misused the voodoo practice to harm people and thats why he ended in hell. But i think it was a spoiler so Viv decide to not saying any statement regarding Alastor relation to voodoo religion until the show was up since it will be a crucial part of Alastor character arc.
@@cefrinaldi8060It's canon that his mother taught him how to use voodoo and she actually went to heaven. So no. It's not because of the voodoo that Alastor was send to hell. It's because he is a serial killer and cannibal.
I wish Vivzie would delete her twitter and keep it business-only. At this point she is too well known and will continue being picked apart and it will hurt her mentally to experience this. I've gotten secondhand extreme anxiety just looking at people getting into controversies I can't imagine continually being in them without actually wanting to be.
For what I've seen she does seem to handle these controversies pretty well, which is something you unfortunately have to deal with when you become well known. When you become a public figure you just kinda have to accept that there will be "people" who think their opinion matters and learn to ignore them.
@@youraveragesinner5474 Fr, most her drama is fueled by her blocking people which is ridiculous. Like there is so many bad faith criticisms she gets daily but people wanna get mad over it.
@@renomiz2373 I'm honestly glad she blocks people it was probably a tough decision to do at first knowing it can cause a controversy but if that provides her relief then I'm all for it
@@renomiz2373 But even when she blocks them they still whine and complain instead of just moving on. Like that one person saying that she doesn’t care about POC people even though she is POC.
The amount of times I've seen Voodoo being used as evil in media, and everyone bats an eye to that. But apparently, when VIV does it, now it's bad and we need to call her out. I played a whole ass Roblox game where there were demons and angels, and where Voodoo is used mostly in the bad sense. Never once did I see someone complain.
People are literally looking for any and every reason to hate on Viv at this point. It's been a known fact since the pilot's release that Alastor practiced Voodoo. He isn't in hell BECAUSE of Voodoo he's in hell because he was a cannibal and serial killer. Also people complaining that Alastor doesn't look mixed and saying it's anti black completely ignore the fact that their demon forms aren't supposed to look like their human forms. Angel wasn't a 8 foot tall human man with 6 arms and white hair when he was alive. Nifty and Cherri didn't have 1 eye cyclops style when they were alive. Sir Pentious wasn't a fucking SNAKE WITH EYES ALL OVER WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. And as for the Starbucks KFC and McDonald's thing, I GAURANTEE their current fave artists also still eat at one of those places or somewhere similar like Chick-fil-A or something CHRIST it's like people WANT to be miserable and hate on every single thing Viv and her crew does instead of just ignoring it. It's so frustrating to see how rampant and annoying the hatedom has gotten.
I don't feel like it matters the political ideologies of fast-food companies, she can still like the food. Just because I love Chick-Fil-A doesn't make me homophobic, and just because she likes McDonald's doesn't make her against Palestinians.
Every single corporation has blood on its hands in one way or another, you have to pick your battles. I haven't eaten at Chick-fil-A ever since they were unmasked as supporting anti LGBTQ+ efforts, but plenty of my friends who are LGBTQ+ still eat there knowing how the company acts. I won't go to Hobby Lobby because of what they have done with Middle Eastern artifacts and the rights of women. But I'm not going to lord myself over anybody else who decides to go there, because I'm still eating at places like Starbucks, I'm still shopping at places like Walmart. There is no way to be 100% fully pure if you at all interact with others in a capitalist society. Hell, even these people using Twitter to complain are supporting Elon Musk who is plenty problematic lol. They really have no legs to stand on if this is the kind of claim they're going to make about someone they don't even know.
although i agree that the voodoo portrayal in hazbin is... a little weird, i think some people people are going WAYYY too far with trying to pin her being the most hateful person ever. i really don't like vivzie too but some people are just taking things too far
I remember seeing a post on insta of someone redesigning Charlie, and the comments are all “she hates fat people” “it’s so unrealistic” “she’s too skinny” First off it goes to show how little these people know about the show and cast, they haven’t seen mimzy Second, it’s a cartoon, cartoons aren’t realistic. These crazy people really just want to hate her just to hate her.
Sweet mother of mercy. I hope this sort of stuff dies down once the show airs. I’m honestly worried that if this keeps up the show might be canceled or something before it starts :(
Okay so we're blaming Vivzie and her team for something that has been in media for years with zero complaints, only NOW people care because people have a vendetta against her anyway
So why was there no bishing over Voodoo man in Princess and the Frog? This is the first i've seen anyone ANYONE bish about a creator using Voodoo symbols when its been used in so many other TV shows and Stories. This is ridiculous
It’s really disgusting how they said Viv doesn’t care about poc when she is literally El Salvadoran. Like OK I understand that you’re mad at her but don’t downplay her own race that’s not cool.
Wasn't Dr. Facilier also using VooDoo in the Princess and the Frog?? It DEFINITELY was being used for evil. He was even DRAGGED INTO HELL Everyone seemed to be pretty okay with that though??
People really need to chill and wait until the show comes out with more lore. For all we know, Alastor could’ve also been sent to hell for weaponizing his religion. There were sinners in the pilot torturing other demons by crucifying, and in Helluva, there were parodies of Christian hate groups portrayed as jerks.
Gotta love when internet “activists” pretend to care about a marginalized group when in reality they’re just using this as another excuse to bash people they don’t like. Sending death threats and harassing people who have a different perspective than you is the WORST thing you can do when trying to spread awareness about representation. If this comment section is any indicator, a lot of people didn’t even know that Voodou is a closed religion until this controversy. It’s unfair to assume Vivziepop and other people involved have malicious intent when in reality they are just as ignorant as the average person. The issue of Voodou rep in the show, and western media as a whole, should be an honest discussion about raising awareness of the facts and how Voodou practitioners feel about it. Not this Twitter cesspool - Also, why are people so obsessed with the idea of Alastor having Afro features? Angel Dust is Italian and looks like a fluffy spider. And Vaggie is El Salvadoran and looks like a grey/purple moth. Why is Alastor being a pale deer deemed “racist”?
People don't know that Creole isn't a race and assume it means that he must have dark skin and/or be of African descent. Most of the comments shown in this video prove that people think that Creole, Black, and African are interchangable.
By afro features are ppl complaining about his demon form? If so I agree that’s dumb but when it comes to the reveal of his human form I would like to see some afro/mixed race influence in his design
"she's racist because she eats at mcdonalds" sounds like bad anti-pc satire from 2014. i really doubt these people don't regularly eat at mcdonalds or go to starbucks.
I find it particularly disrespectful that people feel the need to recolor Alastors skin. All skin tones are beautiful and while I have no gripe with reenvisioning characters for fun the malicious intent behind this feels more racist than what they think they’re fighting to protect.
Being pagan myself I kind of get tired of correcting people about what differences between real-world Witches vs. fantasy. For example, I make Magic Dolls. I have to keep explaining not all dolls are created to harm and Voodoo is a religion, it is neither good nor bad. The magic user's intention for spell what makes positive or negative. Disney's The Princess and the Frog had Mama Odie and Dr. Facilier. Both of them were voodoo witch doctors, but how they used their magic was different. So I wonder if Alastor's VooDoo Drama would be different if he was put against Pure Soul voodoo witch doctor who worked for Heaven. Who knows what's going to happen in Hazbin Hotel, the show hasn't fully started yet. In Helluva Boss we learn not all sinners or demons are not evil. Just one mistake can get the human soul into Hell. If anything I'm sure Alastor's sin is being a cann!bal, not VooDoo Doctor, but his magic did help him become Overlord. Poilt and comic were only snips of his personality so it is hard to tell if he is an evil, or neutral character. Again wait for the show to finish before starting Drama over tiny bit of information.
I think the drama started from genuine criticism and it was important to know but it became (like all drama coming from Twitter and TikTok) an excuse to hate on the creator and her staff
Honestly this is discourse that hasn't shown up since the pilot came out so if people who were offended REALLY cared they would have been talking about it this whole time! Why bring it up now when the show is days from being aired? They're attention seekers, plain and simple
Here’s my two cents on all of this When somebody has power obviously someone is going to miss use it not all of them obviously, but some and we also have to remember this as hell. All types of people go there so it isn’t a far stretch that someone knows voodoo
People had 4 god damn years to speak up about this (the pilot came out in 2019). The fact that people are bring this up now, 3 weeks before launch just proves that the haters don't even care about these 'issues', they only want to create drama and be difficult right before the show comes out...
Those character redesigns are absolute garbage. I've seen a few that actually looked good, but just slapping a darker shade on him and doing minor alterations just looks ugly.
I feel like that everyone would just pick something to complain about the show to the point that the show gets cancelled or something. If they do I'm gonna be dmso pissed.
Well it can just go back to RUclips. Plus, at this point, cancellation would be warranted. Vivziepop is immensely transphobic, has drawn an underage (16 year old) boy in leg garters being held by an adult and called it “cute”, and she fetishizes gay men nonstop, but the funny hell show matters more than that I guess
im not the most knowledge in this but from my knowledge alastor is mixed and come from louisiana which had a lot of voodoo practiced in it so i dont think its that bad because a sinners powers reflect their life before death this could mean alastor practiced voodoo during his human life and its simply gone over into demon hood
1. Alastor using voodoo doesn't necessarily mean the show is pushing a negative stereotype, non-evil forms of magic can be used for evil in the wrong hands, and Alastor's hands are certainly not the right ones, villains corrupt things for their own gain all the time. People recognize that Alastor is the one that is evil and doing evil things, not the magic itself, most people probably just think the red symbols look cool and think nothing more of it, so unless they have prior knowledge that these are voodoo symbols they wouldn't have a negative association from Alastor. It's like a firearm, a gun isn't going to kill someone on it's own, it's dangerous, yes, but it can only go off if it is used by someone, and the way it is used depends on the person, and say (going into rambling hypothetical analogy, sorry), if you had no prior knowledge of what guns were, you wouldn't be afraid of it and start hating people with guns (although you could probably assume it's a weapon, like how people would see the symbols and just assume it's a form of magic, but not specifically think of voodoo) because you never encountered them before. 2. Skin color means literally nothing in this universe, what you turn into is based on your personality and how you died, so it's absolutely possible he was black when he was alive and just looks like this now, but either way he could've gotten his hands on something he shouldn't have and used it for his own purposes, so he doesn't necessarily have to be black to be using voodoo, and doesn't need to be "fixed". I think saw something about him being half-creole or something a day or two ago, and if that's why people think he needs to be fixed and made darker skinned... uh... you wanna go back to the days where even if you were 999/1000 white and you had skin that was too dark you weren't considered white and were forced to use worse facilities and still discriminated against, because that's sounding pretty racist of them instead bro. Someone can be partially comprised one a race but be lighter or darker skinned, because that's how genetics works, half of each parent's DNA plus your own unique mutations, so one parent could have been lighter skinned, but no, apparently being half creole means he needs to past a certain shade to be "realistic", do we need to pull out the Home Depot Paint strips and redraw him until he's a dark enough shade to be considered "truly" creole? NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE'S A GODDAMN DEMON RADIO DEER FOX MAN IN HELL WITH SKIN PALER THAN ANY HUMAN TO EVER EXIST. 3. Using authentic symbols honestly requires a lot more effort to get right than using random nonsense, and would get quite a lot of people (who take the time to research this stuff) interested in learning about the actual culture and what the symbols mean, which would lead to less ignorance and harmful stereotypes because more people would know the reality of what it's about. Of course, the context is important, and if it's done poorly, it can legitimately do harm and misrepresent real life cultures, but the show isn't really being disrespectful in my opinion, Alastor is just twisting something for his own means, so the base morality of voodoo is kind of irrelevant, whether it's good or not he's still using it for evil. 4. (This is more miscellaneous rambling than a single question) Who... really cares about offending random Haitian voodoo practitioners...? Why do these people assume all black people side with voodoo and are all offended by this, and how many of the people who are offended actual members of the religion? Why are people so adamant about it being off limits and not allowed to be used in creative works regardless of intention or context, or just... freedom of expression? Last time I checked they can't legally do anything, people abuse and misuse other religious symbols all the time and get praise for it, and it's covered under the same banner, I'm not saying it's right, but uh, tough luck I guess, just go watch something else instead of trying to delete something many other people enjoy from existence and ruining the lives, effort, and passion of those who created it. It's also pretty convenient that this voodoo association with Alastor has been around for years and only now, while the show is set to premiere on Amazon prime, people start complaining. Mcdonalds? KFC? Starbucks? These are THE major franchises, now people have to avoid the biggest, most widespread fast food chains that everyone goes to or she's a racist now? People really get mad over the stupidest things lol, I'm not really invested in the drama tbh, it's just hard for me to condense my arguments sometimes and I wanted to cover all my weed-fueled thoughts in the moment at 1 (now 2)am, also I'm not talking to the creator or this audience, but this is directed at the people whining abt this
So we are ignoring the fact that Alastor is canonically Creole with African ancestry? Seems like people are looking for ways to be offended, be interesting if they held the same beliefs about Voodoo being a black only religion and gave the same energy Celtic/Slavic/Norse Paganism being white only. (Five USD says they don't)
1. Alastor is a demon, do they want a regular black dude walking around in hell or something? 2. There are 2 sides of voodoo, the good and the bad, ofc Alastor is going to use the evil Loas, he's in hell for being a serial killer and a cultist 3. Even if you don't like a person, sending death threats is an unreasonable response
That person saying “she did this so now i can finally hate her” already just shows so much jealousy and hatred for no good reason… just admitting they always wished to have any empty reason to justify it. They don’t care about voodoo culture at all and probably never have even thought about it twice before.
Unless I see actual practioners complain about it, I say let the show keep the voodoo (vodou? That's how wikipedia spelt it) stuff in. Closed religion or not, I'm sure some people find it cool to see it depicted in any shape or form. Some people like me just like having an excuse to learn something they don't see often. Mind you, one of my mains in SMITE is Baron Samedi, so I'm somewhat biased.
i would like to challenge anyone who has a problem with this to spend one day asking if there is a reason other then "racism" that something makes them angry.
Hey, my friend RJ did not consent to being in this video. That’s a minor who you’re inciting to be harassed and mocked. You’re not slick deleting his comments asking for this to be taken down either.
ive also noticed that people say viv is terminally online every day or five minutes yet from what ive seen, she waits a few hours before she likes something. And also its usually only a week half a week or a week and a half before she opens her mouth about anything. I guess thats a decent balance of how many hours or minutes she spends on twitter.
Twitter users think boycotting multinational billion dollar businesses because of their participation in the Israel-Palestine conflict is gonna change anything
and like- didn't Vivienne deliberately change the symbols a bit to avoid offence or smith? (idk her intentions, just heard she'd changed them) people really just wanna be mad at viv all the time huh. welp, this doesn't effect my love for her. and I love how you say at 3:03 that "what food someone is eating doesn't define their political ideology". you're absolutely right! and who cares about these whiney haters anyway? can't wait for hazbin to release in like 21 days or so! I'm so proud of viv and her team 💖
I genuinely feel more awful about Viv and her team being harassed over this this drama than the art itself. As a black person, I don't care about my own said voodoo-related culture being used creatively when the character himself is half-creole. What even is the issue here? Voodoo art has been used for Dead By Daylight, Scooby Doo villains, and countless cartoon references. Let artists draw.
Not to mention the bits of judenhass getting thrown about by some of the people mentioned in the vid
And don’t forget about Princess and the frog
“As a black person” okay?? does your background specifically have anything to do with that stuff though lol.
I’m pretty sure the issue comes from supposedly her making Alastor ONLY being half-creole because of the voodoo stuff but idrk
@@spunchflopbadpants yes, because people would say that the person is white if they don't like that person's opinion.
Pretty sure Alastor isn’t in hell for being a practitioner of voodoo. He was a serial killer/cannibal.
People will really find anything to attack Viv at this point. It’s pathetic and reeks of jealousy.
No this is an actual issue
@jaiy1321 shut up
@@Sonicsky09 She ain't gonna suck your willy
@@jaiy1321 here’s a question. So what?
@@jaiy1321are you that sensitive to get offended by a FICTIONAL character?
Something I find funny is that well...technically- Alastor, when he was alive WAS a person of color. Mixed- race Creole...meaning at the least he had a decent tan to him. In fact a lot of human fan art of him depicts him with a tan. He also lived in New Orleans...where voodoo was very prevalent.
Doesn't matter to the racist mob, you must always carry around your 23 and me card to be allowed certain privileges in society.
His mom also taught him voodoo… and she’s canonically in heaven, Alaster used voodoo for evil, and he’s not in hell for using it he’s in hell for being a canibal (sorry I have bad spelling)
@@glitchhoffe1293 Yes, that's what I was thinking. It wasn't the voodoo itself that was inherently evil, it was the fact that he used it to be evil, two very different things. It's like people who believed in God so they were nice and went to church vs people who believed in God so they enthusiastically participated in the inquisition. They both believed in the same thing, but one group used it for good and the other used it for actual genocide, which is evil.
@@liamorrison4484well said, like anything else, voodoo can be used for evil as well as good. People are just too quick to get offended on other's behalf I think
Alastor in hell has pale Skin like everyone else there, you know... Cuz he's dead
As a POC myself, here’s my take.
It’s confirmed that Alastor is half Creole, so he’s a POC. But in Viv’s version of hell, you’re not going to look anything like you did on Earth, race included. You literally die and end up looking like something related to your death. Alastor was killed by a hunter who mistook him for a deer, therefore he has deer characteristics.
Vaggie was Hispanic when she was alive, Angel Dust was Italian. So changing the design of Alastor is kind of counter productive.
I really don’t think Viv is racist, considering how she’s supported several BIPOC creators before.
Also, people are upset over Viv’s portrayal of Voodoo… But no one complains about her portrayal of Christianity as a whole? I mean, she literally has angels that are just as bad as sinners… Yet I don’t hear people complaining then…
I’m a Christian and I know how to enjoy the show for what it is and don’t get offended.
Matters your use of creole that eord is a post colonial word for mixed race groups world eide created by colonialism take alaska in alaska creole meams somone whos ancestry is mix of rusian snd native.
Viv Herself is of El Salvadoran heritage Herself...
@@Direwolf181 Well there you go, she’s also a POC
It’s really stupid, fuck all religions, that’s my opionion
@@Direwolf181 So they're angry at a latina creator and claiming she's white. Typical twitter.
I’m gonna be real here. I didnt even know voodoo was a religion up until now. The only thing I knew correlated to voodoo was the “voodoo doll.” I know for a fact I’m not the only one who didnt know it was a religion, but some people will act as if they knew it was since day one, and that theyre deFeNdiNg a reLigiOn being a hero in their eyes.
It's okay, neither did they 5 minutes ago. They just look for reasons to attack Viv (or really anyone) over nothing. It's always the cartoon picture Twitter people whom are terminally online.
fr bro 😭 I genuinely had no idea it was a religion and was fine with the depiction because i always saw it like that in media 👩🦯
Yeah,they don't like Christian either. Voodoo is a magical practice.Hoodoo is a religion!!! Those dumbasses.
@@TaliEpshteinmight i ask why you refer to 'cartoon profile pics' being associated with Twitter weirdos? hazbin hotel is literally a cartoon in itself so people who like hazbin hotel might often like cartoons in general, or at least adult cartoons, but cartoons are cartoons, so i don't quite understand your logic
@@IrisThatOneGothMfmaybe they were saying most of the complainers are people with cartoon characters profile pictures? Kinda illogical though
Voodoo is actually an umbrella term describing pre-imperial African religions, Louisiana Voodoo(the voodoo Alastor practices) is unique as it’s a combination of African polytheism and Christianity and is completely non-centralized. So it’s not a closed religion.
Important comment here. People do the barest bit of research and get loud.
Responding to this comment so I can always find it just in case
@@psychotophatcat You expect Twitter to actually know something about a religion that they just found out that exists?
That’s interesting
That and voodoo is considered magic in certain parts of the world, and good and bad people can use magic.
Are people really forgetting that these are demons and not humans? Tbh I find this drama absolutely unnecessary and just- overall ridiculous. People like these are nit picking to the point of constant harrassment on viv's part and people seem to forget why she doesnt take critism well is because of this behavior. yes appropriate racial coding is important, but this to an extent is outright harmful to vivzie.
Exactly, demons don’t even have races lol
@@Chaoticz89
You do know majority of the cast are human sinners? You know human sinners that are apart of a race/races
No hate btw just saying
@@MagicalStarr Yeah but religion and race should have zero correlation.
@@slimgrim3607
Did I say anything about that?
No hate just wondering/confused
There humans
It is funny how some people are not even black are trying to pretend to care. Why is vivziepop getting heat when Hollywood does this far more and far more racist then anything these people are claiming. Yet no one says anything. They are attacking her only for a small idiotic reason. As someone who is of colour and mixed I support vivziepop and what she is doing. She has not done anything out of malice towards any group and it is easy to see when you have actual racism and discrimination.
She's an easy target, target the small guy and not the big guy with plenty of lawyers and money to shut your mouth!
@@VintageToilet I ain't sneaking nothing in. I am black and mixed with Japanese and native American. More black then anything else. The context of how I worded it was cause RUclipsrs say poc. So I am replying in that manner. Along with the twitter (X) dweller.
@@Bluestlark my point. But if enough people say something then things will happen. Like how people said something about amber heard and guess what. They conformed to what the people asked. We set our foot down to the real racist they won't continue l. But vivziepop is not like them. No it is not me being a simp for the series or her work. I have seen intentionally racist things In big Hollywood movies that are not even that old and yet people don't really say much. We need to call out places like Disney and Pixar when they make racist stereotypes of use and other people. They can't sue millions of people into the ground. Legally as well.
@@VintageToiletah yes gatekeeping. Everyone loves the gatekeepers telling creators of popular shows what they can or cannot do
@@corteouzz this is so dumb
Viv makes fun of christianity everyone:😐
Viv makes fun of voodoo
everyone: 🤬😡
Didn't you know? Christianity is "white", cause its the most common religion in europe. (Even though it originated in the middle east, and it is also very commonly practiced in South America and Africa, but whatever)
Therefore, you are save and encouraged to sh*t all over it, cause "white" things are "evil".
Same with islam. No one calls you a christiophobe when you mock Christianity, but you're somebow an "iSlAmOpObE" when you mock islam. What a stupid double standard.
vivziepop fans when they realize christianity is a religion that was used to colonize land throughout history therefore was a perpetrator of oppression while voodoo was the exact type of practice christianity was oppressing:
Yeah even as a Christian I still LIKE her content it doesn't offend me, people have the right to not like certain religious beliefs do to trauma or I guess preference and just want to be rude, but people shouldn't hold certain bias higher to other religions or practices, religion is for everyone to explore and find yourself! Or to make a satire of,
@@madness_maniasame here
So, like Alistair, I'm mixed race creole and have family in Louisiana. I'm giving Vizzypop my extra race card, so it's cool. Everyone needs to step away from the Twitter and touch grass. I didn't see people complaining about pentagrams being used or the fact that spirits (that some see as actual deities) from the Ars Goetia are being used as characters. The entire show is about the hypocrisy of heaven and unfairness of hell. So it would track that in this world voodoo would automatically be seen as bad and not worthy. Every pantheon imaginable has been used in some form of entertainment IP as of now. Black people survived slavery and still experience actual systemic racism, discrimination, police violence and judicial inequality. We can survive a fu*king cartoon. Besides, as I said, vizzypop has my spare race card to play now, she's my guest. Calm down edge lords.
Also from Louisiana and trying to learn Cajun French. All the people claiming they know more about voodoo than they do without knowing that the current voodoo high priestess is a Jewish lady are acting like a bunch of couyons.
I'm genuinely curious about this since you said you were mixed, I am also mixed, but I was personally mad that she made Alastor mixed after the Voodoo controversy because it felt like a cheap way to get out of it. I feel like most of the other people arguing aren't mixed, so I was just curious what you thought.
The thing that is weird to me is that when the pilot dropped, Alastor had Voodoo symbols when he was using his powers (I think he did). I didn’t see any controversy come from that. But when merch from a show 5 YEARS in the making drops, people start a controversy. I understand that Voodoo is a religion (something I didn’t know until the controversy started), but no one pointed out the symbols with Alastor until now. It just doesn’t make sense. It might be because Vivziepop is known to be controversial now or that Hazbin Hotel is becoming more popular, but it just isn’t adding up how no one pointed out the Voodoo symbols from the pilot (By the way this is from my perspective. If there was a controversy when the Pilot dropped about it, I’m not aware of it. This is just from what I’ve seen and heard.) I also think that the people starting the controversy are brand new to Vivziepop because if they watched the pilot and were aware of what Voodoo is, this would have been called out years ago and this wouldn’t be happening. In my opinion, I don’t think Vivziepop had racist intentions. I also don’t think she’s even racist. I just believe she didn’t do enough research to understand that what she’s doing is (I’m going to say potentially) wrong.
Its been called out during the time Alastor was dropped during pilot tho, you just didnt saw that, its been happening for years and people are arguably more pissed Vizziepop never changes
I raised issues about Voodoo representation after I found out about Voodoo being a real religion from an unrelated video. Hardly anyone batted an eye at the time. I don’t think Viv is racist for not knowing that. Voodoo has long been depicted in similar fashion in American media for years and I think it’s unfair for people who just learned that to be looking down on people who were just as ignorant as they were 30 seconds ago. if people are going to get mad about Alastor, then they better also be mad about Dr. Facilier and Chucky the doll.
or they're upset they're wrong,, as they always are. its not vivzie's fault people chose to ignore context, nor is it vivzie's fault people will always choose to do so when they need an enemy to invent@@spacetofu5306
I am pretty sure I saw people bring up the voodoo issue during the time of the pilots release, I am very sure of that.
Its because people were pissed off about the change of story and voice actors.
I've literally seen some of the people who are calling this racist be way more racist, one of them called Vivz a racist white woman and when they were corrected that she's latina, they literally said she shouldn't be called latina because she's too pale and doesn't speak Spanish
These people are always racist smh
Real, cuz I also am pale and don’t speak Spanish
What a freaking hypocrite, there are other idiot saying that her being Hispanic doesn’t make her POC because of her her being pale. They’re not realizing how hypocritical and racist they’re being and I don’t think they realize this can cause identity issues.
@@WhyIsThereAMoth1 You are still Hispanic, anyone who says otherwise our idiots
Too White to speak Spanish? The European language?
I swear, they’ll try to cancel Viv if she so much as breathes a way they don’t like. Constructive criticism is one thing, but straight-up harassment over such minor things is inexcusable.
They just want to hate someone if they really wanted to give her good feedback to inprove, they wouldn't be harassing the people that are the voices of her caracters or the people that work for her to get a paycheck
Hopefully she stays steadfast and doesn't cave like Jocat
People when Viv uses Christianity in her own way:
People when Viv uses Voodoo in her own way: 😡😡😡😡
That's because voodoo is not that well known as Christianity.
@@DrAngelKins That doesn't make it ok, fam. That's like saying "I can make Jesus look like a hippy but I can't make Buddha look like an 80s Hip-Hop dancer."
@@Theonlysanepersontrue.
its a CLOSED RELIGION, what is so hard to understand 😭
@@lxmesoda Oh my God, WHO. THE HELL. CARES?? What are they gonna do, bomb a house over the religious symbols? Fuck you.
With how often Voodoo is depicted in various ways (most times evil with some good in there), this is legitimately the first time I've actually seen people get bent about it being used in a negative way
And when they claim that a bad light was casted solely because of white people (which is funny, as they are racially pinging an issue, something they bitch a lot about) but then seem to forget terrible acts committed by non-white voodoo followers.
The problem is not race, it's actions
Hell, I would say in games like cyberpunk voodoo'ism is portrayed in an even worse light.
I don't think I need to explain who the voodoo boys are...
Yeah we don't see this shit over WoW's Jamaican Voodoo/Hoodoo trolls and shaman those have been a thing since cataclysm
Nah fr it's wild
Do people genuinely, truly care for haitian vodoo practicioners?
Unlikely. Twitter users tend to see "microagressions" (whatever the hell those are) in everything you say or do, and actively try to look for anything that could possibly paint someone in a bad light. Kinda like a stalker with a rage boner.
I'm pretty sure they don't nor trully understand what is actually being practised in such religions.
They just want control over the narrative and Vivzie is their platform for their "utopia"
Though I hardly trust any people from twitter understanding the nuance of the world being such a basement dwealler that has never gotten out of america and even less from the state they reside in.
I'm pretty sure Alastor is just a bad guy using a religion to it's own advantage, I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be seen as bad in general.
But people on twitter take fictional creations like real life soo.. there's that.
Nah. Its just another point on the scoreboard. Half or more of the people commenting probably don't actually know shit about the religion outside of what they read on google
Haiti is a shithole nation anyways so who cares honestly
If they did, they would've gone after Dr. facilier from The Princess and the Frog. But as usual for Twitter users, nothing but silence.
While I do think that using real voodoo symbols is a risky idea, the rest of the criticism is complete horse sh!t. Alastor does not need to be ‘’more black’’ to be depicted using voodoo. That right there is *actual racism* .
I remember watching a Simpsons episode in which Bart uses voodoo to help people get pregnant. (Ep name: What to expect when Bart’s expecting)
May I remind you that Bart is a white American boy. So if Vivze is getting criticised for the stuff with Alastor surely Matt groening should have gotten hate too. Yet that is nowhere to be found.
Also how in the name of Jesus H. Christ is McDonald’s, KFC and Starbucks supporting the Genocide of Palestine.
Overall, I do agree with the fact that Viv probably shouldn’t have used real symbols for the cards. But, the rest is complete bollocks.
(Remember this is just my opinion. Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong)
🤦🏾♀️
Do you not think these same people would NOT criticize the Simpsons if they knew about it?
They obviously would , but because Viv’s thing is more relevant at the moment they’re criticizing this.
That’s like saying anyone who criticizes something needs to be all knowing of ANY SUBJECT that relates back to their criticism and criticize it.
That’s unrealistic and impossible dude.
@@VintageToilet stop trying to justify this stupidity
ITS HELL. Jesus Christ the fact people are forgetting this fact about the show where said fact is IMPORTANT is actually alarming
@@VintageToiletDude, your nickname has to be "devil's lawyer " you literally defend even the indefensible
I don't think those were even Voodoo symbols either. They look more like alchemy symbols.
Wow, this video really delves into the recent drama in the community. It's crucial to have open discussions about these issues to foster a healthier community. The insights shared here shed light on different perspectives, and it's clear that addressing concerns is vital for growth. Let's hope for positive changes and a more united community moving forward. Thanks for providing such a comprehensive overview!
What a really well constructed and put together comment. Well done Mr.lmao
@@reinforcement5876 thanks reinforcement5876
ayy lmao is literally the same person who defends viv despite having no relations with her defending a random person on the internet. I wonder what would happen if helluva/hazbin didn't exist then ayy lmao would probably get a better job than he already has.
No, when you see something you don’t like, you make a video on it to defend Viv. Def a fan of you man but you can’t say you scroll past it when a good portion of your videos are discussing Viv/HB/HH drama. All the people who “moan and cry” are your content, dude lmao
edit: not you editing the comment so it looks like you care about this?? like okay man 😭
I can at least understand why people are upset. The use of Voodoo in the show can perpetuate harmful stereotypes and is clearly cultural appropriation, not just with Viv not being black, but also with Alastor also not being black. Some people might bring up The Princess and the Frog and Dr Facilier, but that movie made a clear distinction between bad people who use Voodoo and good people who use Voodoo, with Dr Facilier who was evil and Mama Odie who was good, and also Dr Facilier was actually black.
Censoring the word hazbin is crazy 💀
I find it fun, how decades voodoo being used as a dark nagic in pop culture, wasn't problem until now
It probably was an issue to people but y’all don’t pay attention dude.
Was Twitter a thing way back when this stereotyping started? No. So be a little more thoughtful dude.
@@VintageToiletkeep making problems where there are none.
there wasn't really people back then saying it's racist lol, there were however people who thought it's 'too ''demonic' or 'evil'' but that's unrelated to the so called 'religion' that people are suddenly talking about now.
To be frank, most people in the real world that are involved in HOODOO (read: outside of Twitter) don't give a flying fuck
@IrisThatOneGothMf I'm honestly suprised to see a person with a pride flag pfp actually making sense and being chill normally its those types that are the ones foaming at the mouth about dumb crap like this. Good on you lol
@@lonerevenant0 tbh, that's on you for grouping lgbtq with dumb takes and awful behavior, all kinds of people say/do dumb shit over this kinda stuff, like in general, we don't gotta stereotype groups
At this point anything from Twitter just sounds like a bunch of people bored of their lives and rustle up some trouble over something they don't truly care about other than getting attention and then vanish as soon as they get what they want or jump onto the next drama train for that dopamine rush.
Took you this long to figure it out? Has been this way since 2015.
@@blackspark5218 I don't go on Twitter, just collected data about it from RUclips XD
Can we just enjoy a show without overthinking everything?
I guess not🤷🏾♂️
Can people wait for the actual show to be out? Who says voodoo is evil? Cause HE'S evil?
canonically the only use we've seen him use it for thus far is protecting and upgrading the hotel.. thats there to help people redeem themselves so they can go to heaven.. whoops guess we havn't actually seen him use it for evil at all
"It's a closed marginalized religion, no one who practice can be evil 🤓"
Exactly. We never seen any voodoo practitioner aside from Alastor, eventhough the practice is a few century old tradition. We practicaly know nothing.
Just because you're religious doesn't make you a good person. I really don't understand why people have to make up shit to get mad about. These people need to touch some grass.
Actually we have. Dr. Facilier and Mama Odie from The Princess and the Frog, and Chucky from the Child’s Play movies.
I definitely understand the dislike of voodoo in the show (and I personally dislike it when it comes to doing my own research), but harassing people over the situation is definitely the worst move possible. I would love to see a change to the way the religion is shown so far, and it’s possible to see that since we are getting a season 2 that is in development. If people want a change in how it’s depicted, it’s definitely possible to campaign for it in season 2, but harassing Viv, twitter randos, and Amir (who has no control over how the show, how it portrays Alastor, and how it portrays voodoo) is counterproductive to see a change in how voodoo is perceived. It really just needs to be a combined effort to have a discussion, and Viv’s willingness to listen.
okay but voodoo has always been associated with evil in fiction. we do not need to make her change shit. it's all fictional anyway, it's not like she's calling people irl demons.
it's not her fault that's how voodoo has been used in fiction for so long.
plus let's be honest here, just cuz it's shown as bad in fiction doesn't mean she's referring to the so called 'religion' i actually don't think most people knew there was a whole ass religion based on voodoo. everyone knows voodoo as what they heard in fiction, but is that a bad thing? I'd say no. cuz fiction does not represent reality in it's entirety. fiction is fiction.
@@IrisThatOneGothMf not to mention voodoo can actually be used for evil. Evil people EXIST. Alastor is a cannibalistic murderer and people have an issue with the fact that he. A man who was born in LOUISIANA is associated with voodoo. Which has both a good and bad side. Like cmon people.
@@IrisThatOneGothMf While I understand that fiction is it’s own separate thing, the portrayal of voodoo in both fiction and media that we consume has directly lead to the demonization of it, and it being “evil” or “bad.” And while Vivzie is not at fault for how voodoo has been portrayed for the past 100s of years, not changing how it is used in the series things helps contribute to keeping the stigma surrounding the practice. Even if Hazbin is a smaller scale piece of media compared to something like Princess and the Frog (which has a similar focus on “evil voodoo”), it still has reach to people all over the world, so changing how the religion is portrayed in the show can help strengthened understanding of the practices involved so it’s not watered down to being evil. Just because fiction doesn’t fully portray our reality doesn’t mean it’s not rooted in it, and it’s very easy for people to view voodoo and people who practice it negatively because of something like Hazbin. By no means is Vivzie forced to change how she portrays the practice, but if she did, it would definitely help show that voodoo isn’t evil or something to be scared of, especially since a lot of people are fans of her work.
@@cantalnoise the thing is tho, I'm pretty sure most people don't actually believe in stuff like that anyway. plus most people probably haven't even heard of this religion. so it is very not likely that much people will think those people of the religion are evil, if you are trying to show the world that those peoples religion exists, perhaps that'll be more harmful to them than fiction ever does, but people mainly know voodoo only because of fiction. and most people don't actually view it as a real thing. so i think people should just chill.
There’s a theory that Alastor actually stole his voodoo magic and also he’s evil anyway, he’s a cannibal and in hell
the amount of hate vivizipop receives for no reason is crazy
Some people just want to hate someone so bad, i have seen voodoo being used by scooby doo villains so many times and even Disney made a movie with voodoo
But suddenly when a small creator makes something with voodoo in it it's suddenly wrong
I mean, she does still buy from Starbucks and Mcdonalds and doesn’t even hide it but yeah, some of the reasons people hate her for are pretty stupid.
she feeds the trolls by replying, if she just hired someone more mature to take care of HB/HH social media nothing would have happaned
@@birb70 yeah but it doesn't mean that you eat mcdonald sometime that you support what happen in palestine, its not like the war is gonna stop if she stop eating there anyway
@@MarineSelena I wonder who would take care of the trolls
One comparison that I'd like to make is the fact that if it was any other religion, people wouldn't be mad. Christianity has been used numerous times in a bad way, yet nobody complained.
This also isn't the first time Voodoo has been used in media. Princess and The Frog and Chucky also had Voodoo. Heck, Chucky was white as hell. Was that also an issue back then? Also, chucky was taught by a black guy with the purpose of using it for good. We don't even know Alastor's full backstory. He could've had a family member teach him or got permission to learn, and just happened to use it for evil. Don't use 1 person to draw a conclusion about a whole religion. that's like one person hating ice cream and suddenly ice cream is the most disgusting thing on earth.
As for the race thing, I've already made a RUclips comment and Twitter post about that.
he is half creole, so i would easily assume its someone from his family that taugh him voodoo.
@@tornadodee148 exactly! And he could've been taught for the purpose of good. If you give a man an ancient sword used to kill evil, he could easily use that sword to slaughter innocents. Is that a bad representation of the sword? No. Just because one man decided to use the sword for evil doesn't mean all the people who wielded the sword did the same.
@@NocturnalLoner True, also near sure Alastor's mom that taught him voodoo, she is on heaven no doubt because no way in hell Alastor wouldn't have hunted her down to talk with her
@@Aureonw yeah! I think Vivzie confirmed once that Alastor is a major Mama's boy. If she was in hell he would most likely hang around her all the time.
If people wanna find a problem, why not ask the people in Africa whom practice voodoo??? Even if you’re black, you can’t go around telling people what is considered offensive or not UNLESS you actually are from the country of origin, and practice the religion. Primary sources are so important in these situations
This exactly like i’m pretty sure the people complaining about this don’t practice voodoo their self.
@sailorstar3148 EXACTLY
Alastor is only so far confirmed to be Creole, which is more like an ethnicity, and isn't limited to race. There are lots of light skinned and straight up white Creole people in Louisiana. While I would love for him to be black design-wise and for the diversity of the cast, it's really strange for people to be claiming that Voodoo is closed to only black people when that is historically definitely not the case. Erasing light-skinned Creoles and properly initiated non-black Voodoo practitioners is a really weird hill to die on.
Voodoo isn't technically practised in Africa, its a Caribbean religion that actually started as a form of blending Catholicism and African religions.
However fiction is not reality.
Mind you maybe I'm just sensitive as I've had people tell me my attempts to create and then respect an entire culture in D&D based on an aspect of my personal cultural heritage was racist.
@@psychotophatcatngl for me it would feel odd if Alastor would be revealed so a non-black creole though since Voodoo is still heavily influenced by African religion
Sooooooo...people complain about how Alastor doesn't look like his race...and yet ignore Vaggie and Angel Dust.
Wait what's Angel Dust's human race? Always assumed he was a white boy lol
Vaggie looks like her face though. She has a hooked nose and darker skin.
Angel is literally covered in fur and has no human features to interpret.
Alastor literally does though. Take away his ears and antlers and he’s just a guy.
@@Jimins__Pookieexactly, he’s an Italian white mobster
@@Jimins__Pookie Italian
@@corynnightshade9049Sooo... white.
It's honestly hilarious how they didn't start with this years ago when the pilot dropped, but NOW they decide to start up drama for no damn reason other than to bully others to make themselves feel better.
I also have not herd of an official design for Alastor from when he was human,you have souls taking up the forms of spiders he could have possibly been black or even mixed,plus Voodoo is shown often time's in shows and movies and there are many things similar to voodoo that get mistaken for it in movies as well. I don't really get why everybody is losing it over a fictional character nobody knows the actual OFFICIAL backstory of from a show about hell? For all anybody knows Alastor could have learned it while alive from somebody else,learned it after dyeing from somebody else or have been even self taught from things like books or something that he found and then expanded on. I get that people are mad that it could be technically racist but there's literally next to nothing known about Alastor yet,and quite a few things have been changed over time with the shows Viv makes. Atleast as far as I have herd,know or seen from everything.
There is a comic with it he is a white man but it is really irrelevant if I as a Gael have to be fine with other cultures using a bastardized version of druid beliefs (because who actually gives a fuck)
So a vindictive man uses a religion that targets others using one's strong emotions, that was birthed in your home region, it makes sense.
Alastor is half creole and from New Orleans
It was confirmed that alastor was half creole, which explains why he practiced voodoo in life because that's his religion. Honestly due to the fact that this depiction of hell is Christian, it actually makes MORE SENSE that the voodoo is depicted as dark and evil due to the fact that that's how Christianity views things like voodoo.
@Scyclo okay so it makes even less sense then I thought for people to be bitching.
I freaking hate this idiotic culture war that has absolutely zero point
also how much you wanna bet that the SECOND his human form is shown that Viv will have TEN TIMES the outrage, no matter if he is browner or rosier than his greyish UNDEAD depiction as a DEMON? browner: "oh you are black washing because of the backlash you got" rosier: "oh! oh! you see, I knew he was white all along!"🤦♀ even tho he is mixed race and half creole and saying stuff like "you aren't black or white enough for your ethnicity/religion" is racist in itself.😓
Getting mad at her for eating at KFC really makes the actual talking points here feel like just excuses to hate on someone. The miss use of faith is bad, but getting mad at someone for eating at KFC has got to be the most I just want to be mad thing I have ever heard. Get mad for valid reasons. Don't get mad for a valid reason and then completely undermine it by pointing out a completely random thing that doesn't matter.
Imagine canceling someone just because they’re eating fried chicken
@@sailorstar3148I could see it being a racist thing at some point to Twitter. "But fried chicken is a black stereotype that's racist hurdurdur"
@@kulehulfer4385 it ain’t really the stereotype of cultures love to cook fried chicken.
They're referring to the free palestine movement. There's a genocide happening in palestine through Israel's military. Children and pregnant women are targeted the most. Homes are being destroyed. And people are being bombed. The US government is also helping fund said government, and so are some if it's big companies. The top 3 contributors are McDonalds, Starbucks, and Disney. So they're a boycott moment to avoid these companies and many more if you can (though it's hard to cause a lot of american companies support it. More than not) I'm hopes of either Palestine getting back the land that they have owned for a thousand years, that Israel's trying to occupy; or at the very least a ceasefire. If you would like sources and sites on the matter lmk but I'd def research because it's sad and devastating what's going on. Hope that clears things up?
Also I don't think it inherently makes her racist to eat at these places? She either doesn't know about it, doesn't think the boycotts will make a difference and feels hopeless, or just doesn't care about it. I really hope it's the first one tho and that she learns about it and speaks up about it; maybe even in her animations. ❤
I’m honestly very confused, so correct me if I’m wrong.
Are people mad because of his trading card using voodoo symbols? Didn’t in the pilot when he said “I would’ve done so” he has symbols floating around him as well?
And they’re also mad at her for eating at Starbucks, McDonald’s, etc. It’s a fast food place, you can eat whatever food you like.
Note: I’m not defending nor attacking, my opinion on this situation is neutral. I’m just confused on what exactly is going on.
Iirc, people did point out that the pilot had voodoo sigils and that it demonized the religion, it just wasn’t at a boiling point like it is now. It’s been years since the pilot though so it’s hard to gauge how much discussion was had about the topic
Starbucks is actively supporting Israel's genocide on palenstine.
I suppose you don't know that McDonald's and Starbucks openly support Israel economically
People just gouging as much as possible without knowing anything. Thats what actually happen. We only see the pilot without any answer and people are fuming because viv ( a small content creator) put a character that using voodoo in hell saying they demonized the religion while stay silent when hollywood did way worse to the religion.
From my perspective, people are upset because they want drama and more and more people joining the drama train without knowing what happen. Y'know twitter being the usual twitter.
Surprised the Chucky series hasn’t been cancelled for the use of Voodoo.
I like how all of these people are fine with the portrayal of heaven and hell, gratuitous violence, sex and drug use but utilize a handful of voodoo symbols that likely don't mean anything while scattered about like that and they come crawling out of the woodwork.
The thing is that Christianity isn’t stigmatized, and a lot of people feel hurt by her portrayal of voodoo as “evil”
Makes me wonder why these people aren’t mad over Chucky, a white doll, using voodoo throughout most of his movie franchise. But seriously, all of this Viv drama is just stupid and it’s getting very annoying
It’s double standards these lunatics pick and choose what they like and who they want to target and they probably hated Viv anyways so they are having a field day with this 🙄
Because the outrage is fad. Gives these empty husks a brief glimpse into what is like to matter for a few moments before the realization that they are nothing settles in again.
That’s funny cause my brother and I were just watching all the Chucky movies during October and I was like, I thought only black people or biracial people could use voodoo, maybe Chucky is just a light skinned black person lol or mixed.
@@trparnell87 Fr, and not to mention that they’re demons and don’t even have races lol
@@Chaoticz89 Except That They Did Have Races At One Point, When They Were Human.
Why does everyone have to make such a drama about so many things? Some people have to accept some things
Because it's a whole different ball game from past controversies, real people in real communities are actually getting offended and it's justified for once
@@spectre2803 no it's not justified.
Look I been trying to back up Viv for a decade now, this is the one time I think it's right for people of a religion to be angry they've been depicted without consent or permission of a priest or priestess. That's a fuckup on Vivzie. but she still doesn't deserve the harrassment.@@Pudemon1rakete
@@spectre2803 You don't need consent of a religion to depict it. That's called free speech and I'm pretty sure viv never got "permission" from any christian authority to depict it aswell yet noone cares or complains about it because they can't farm minority points.
@@spectre2803 voodoo is for everyone even in New Orleans people are doing it without permission and they don't care, even other states don't care.
Isn’t Alastor mixed race or something and if so then it doesn’t surprise me that he would dabble in voodoo.🤨🐱
omfg, I can't deal with the sensivity with people online, Im so sick of people treating the tiniest details as "oppression", I can see the voodoo drama but they just had to keep kicking the dead horse, we've all been waiting for this for 4 years and if this show gets cancelled I swear the Internet is going to be an all out war
Imagine if it gets canceled not only after Keith David expressed his excitement at getting to sing, but also after what happened in episode 4. It just ended there. That would be insanely maddening. I'd feel especially sad for Keith. Guys is a legend and I love hearing him voice Husk.
2:47 As someone who doesn't use Twitter at all, sometimes its hard for me to believe that its a real thing
I do like how most of the people redesigning Alastor are just making him black, despite the fact that he's supposed to be mixed and we've already seen that the skin colour sinners have in hell doesn't reflect the skin colour they had when they were alive, as demonstrated by Mrs Mayberry from Helluva Boss. They shouldn't look human at all! To do that literally throws out ideas like consistency with lore which people claim Viv doesn't have!
The amount of drama over the hazbin hotel everything is nothing short of just crazy in my opinion it’s gotten the point where I could probably make an entire 7 hour analysis on every drama.
especially since it isnt even out yet
I think it’s because of the nature of the show and how it’s being depicted. There’s going to be controversy either way.
i feel bad for viv, she is already dealing with alot, i know about the criticim back in summer when it got delayed, i was disappointed but wasn't mad, now attacking viv over the merch, i feel so bad for her :"(
While I get some of the drama but I don't ,alastor in the pre comics and information that was dropped was bullied as kid and if I remember correctly someone brought this up on tumblr around the pilot and viv said something along the lines of "people treated him as a monster so he became one" that would mean he took to using voodoo misguidedly like the shadow man from princess and the frog.I get why people are mad but I think some people are just blowing it out of proportion because they want to ride the twitter high and not actually give constructive criticism.Viv though definitely needs to make a statement on this to explain what is going on and possibly try to edit parts of alastors symbols to be more deer like so everyone involved is happy and maybe like helluva boss for the 1st season put warnings like"evil voodoo""misuse of voodoo" to let people know they are listening and trying to correct anything that may be offensive.
I believe that viv can't actually make a statement on this because she's on a NDA. So once the show is released then she can make a statement on it.
I have a same opinion regarding Alastor. I think he misused the voodoo practice to harm people and thats why he ended in hell. But i think it was a spoiler so Viv decide to not saying any statement regarding Alastor relation to voodoo religion until the show was up since it will be a crucial part of Alastor character arc.
@@cefrinaldi8060It's canon that his mother taught him how to use voodoo and she actually went to heaven. So no. It's not because of the voodoo that Alastor was send to hell. It's because he is a serial killer and cannibal.
I wish Vivzie would delete her twitter and keep it business-only. At this point she is too well known and will continue being picked apart and it will hurt her mentally to experience this. I've gotten secondhand extreme anxiety just looking at people getting into controversies I can't imagine continually being in them without actually wanting to be.
For what I've seen she does seem to handle these controversies pretty well, which is something you unfortunately have to deal with when you become well known. When you become a public figure you just kinda have to accept that there will be "people" who think their opinion matters and learn to ignore them.
@@youraveragesinner5474 Fr, most her drama is fueled by her blocking people which is ridiculous. Like there is so many bad faith criticisms she gets daily but people wanna get mad over it.
@@renomiz2373 I'm honestly glad she blocks people it was probably a tough decision to do at first knowing it can cause a controversy but if that provides her relief then I'm all for it
@@renomiz2373 But even when she blocks them they still whine and complain instead of just moving on. Like that one person saying that she doesn’t care about POC people even though she is POC.
The amount of times I've seen Voodoo being used as evil in media, and everyone bats an eye to that. But apparently, when VIV does it, now it's bad and we need to call her out.
I played a whole ass Roblox game where there were demons and angels, and where Voodoo is used mostly in the bad sense. Never once did I see someone complain.
People are literally looking for any and every reason to hate on Viv at this point. It's been a known fact since the pilot's release that Alastor practiced Voodoo. He isn't in hell BECAUSE of Voodoo he's in hell because he was a cannibal and serial killer.
Also people complaining that Alastor doesn't look mixed and saying it's anti black completely ignore the fact that their demon forms aren't supposed to look like their human forms. Angel wasn't a 8 foot tall human man with 6 arms and white hair when he was alive. Nifty and Cherri didn't have 1 eye cyclops style when they were alive. Sir Pentious wasn't a fucking SNAKE WITH EYES ALL OVER WHEN HE WAS ALIVE.
And as for the Starbucks KFC and McDonald's thing, I GAURANTEE their current fave artists also still eat at one of those places or somewhere similar like Chick-fil-A or something
CHRIST it's like people WANT to be miserable and hate on every single thing Viv and her crew does instead of just ignoring it. It's so frustrating to see how rampant and annoying the hatedom has gotten.
I don't feel like it matters the political ideologies of fast-food companies, she can still like the food. Just because I love Chick-Fil-A doesn't make me homophobic, and just because she likes McDonald's doesn't make her against Palestinians.
Every single corporation has blood on its hands in one way or another, you have to pick your battles. I haven't eaten at Chick-fil-A ever since they were unmasked as supporting anti LGBTQ+ efforts, but plenty of my friends who are LGBTQ+ still eat there knowing how the company acts. I won't go to Hobby Lobby because of what they have done with Middle Eastern artifacts and the rights of women. But I'm not going to lord myself over anybody else who decides to go there, because I'm still eating at places like Starbucks, I'm still shopping at places like Walmart. There is no way to be 100% fully pure if you at all interact with others in a capitalist society. Hell, even these people using Twitter to complain are supporting Elon Musk who is plenty problematic lol. They really have no legs to stand on if this is the kind of claim they're going to make about someone they don't even know.
that starbucks/mcdonald's/kfc one genuinely made me laugh so hard, there's too much idiocy to unpack in that single tweet
Is the reason why there’s an amount of people that don’t take these criticism seriously because of how stupid they are
although i agree that the voodoo portrayal in hazbin is... a little weird, i think some people people are going WAYYY too far with trying to pin her being the most hateful person ever. i really don't like vivzie too but some people are just taking things too far
Honestly, if I were in Viv's situation...I'd promptly tell them to shut up and deal with it!
I think that will just only put oil on the fire
Why. She’s the one who wrote the bullshit, put it out on the internet, and is therefore open to criticism
I remember seeing a post on insta of someone redesigning Charlie, and the comments are all “she hates fat people” “it’s so unrealistic” “she’s too skinny”
First off it goes to show how little these people know about the show and cast, they haven’t seen mimzy
Second, it’s a cartoon, cartoons aren’t realistic.
These crazy people really just want to hate her just to hate her.
Sweet mother of mercy. I hope this sort of stuff dies down once the show airs. I’m honestly worried that if this keeps up the show might be canceled or something before it starts :(
Okay so we're blaming Vivzie and her team for something that has been in media for years with zero complaints, only NOW people care because people have a vendetta against her anyway
I hate where media literacy is today, I really do.
Fanbase when characters who are legit demon do something that a demon would do: >:(
So why was there no bishing over Voodoo man in Princess and the Frog? This is the first i've seen anyone ANYONE bish about a creator using Voodoo symbols when its been used in so many other TV shows and Stories. This is ridiculous
Bro ppl have talked about princess and the frog before lmao
@@jennah5990 ok. Obviously not enough that it made any impact like this. 😂
It’s really disgusting how they said Viv doesn’t care about poc when she is literally El Salvadoran. Like OK I understand that you’re mad at her but don’t downplay her own race that’s not cool.
el Salvador is a country not a race people can be el salvadorian and also be white
Wasn't Dr. Facilier also using VooDoo in the Princess and the Frog?? It DEFINITELY was being used for evil. He was even DRAGGED INTO HELL Everyone seemed to be pretty okay with that though??
Dude people are straight up using eating McDonald’s as fuel to cancel someone
A lot of soapbox Twitter activists don’t defend/criticize stuff out of genuine concern they do it out of malice. I hope they change for the better
That was well said, bud!
People really need to chill and wait until the show comes out with more lore. For all we know, Alastor could’ve also been sent to hell for weaponizing his religion. There were sinners in the pilot torturing other demons by crucifying, and in Helluva, there were parodies of Christian hate groups portrayed as jerks.
Gotta love when internet “activists” pretend to care about a marginalized group when in reality they’re just using this as another excuse to bash people they don’t like. Sending death threats and harassing people who have a different perspective than you is the WORST thing you can do when trying to spread awareness about representation. If this comment section is any indicator, a lot of people didn’t even know that Voodou is a closed religion until this controversy. It’s unfair to assume Vivziepop and other people involved have malicious intent when in reality they are just as ignorant as the average person. The issue of Voodou rep in the show, and western media as a whole, should be an honest discussion about raising awareness of the facts and how Voodou practitioners feel about it. Not this Twitter cesspool
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Also, why are people so obsessed with the idea of Alastor having Afro features? Angel Dust is Italian and looks like a fluffy spider. And Vaggie is El Salvadoran and looks like a grey/purple moth. Why is Alastor being a pale deer deemed “racist”?
People don't know that Creole isn't a race and assume it means that he must have dark skin and/or be of African descent. Most of the comments shown in this video prove that people think that Creole, Black, and African are interchangable.
These puritanical progressives dont help actual leftisim
By afro features are ppl complaining about his demon form? If so I agree that’s dumb but when it comes to the reveal of his human form I would like to see some afro/mixed race influence in his design
"she's racist because she eats at mcdonalds" sounds like bad anti-pc satire from 2014.
i really doubt these people don't regularly eat at mcdonalds or go to starbucks.
I find it particularly disrespectful that people feel the need to recolor Alastors skin. All skin tones are beautiful and while I have no gripe with reenvisioning characters for fun the malicious intent behind this feels more racist than what they think they’re fighting to protect.
People just can't live without drama
hazbin haters trying to act like sane people: challenge level impossible.
Being pagan myself I kind of get tired of correcting people about what differences between real-world Witches vs. fantasy. For example, I make Magic Dolls. I have to keep explaining not all dolls are created to harm and Voodoo is a religion, it is neither good nor bad. The magic user's intention for spell what makes positive or negative.
Disney's The Princess and the Frog had Mama Odie and Dr. Facilier. Both of them were voodoo witch doctors, but how they used their magic was different. So I wonder if Alastor's VooDoo Drama would be different if he was put against Pure Soul voodoo witch doctor who worked for Heaven. Who knows what's going to happen in Hazbin Hotel, the show hasn't fully started yet. In Helluva Boss we learn not all sinners or demons are not evil. Just one mistake can get the human soul into Hell. If anything I'm sure Alastor's sin is being a cann!bal, not VooDoo Doctor, but his magic did help him become Overlord. Poilt and comic were only snips of his personality so it is hard to tell if he is an evil, or neutral character. Again wait for the show to finish before starting Drama over tiny bit of information.
EXACTLY! finally someone with common sense 👏 🥲
I HATE FUCKING POLITICS, WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST CHILL
I think the drama started from genuine criticism and it was important to know but it became (like all drama coming from Twitter and TikTok) an excuse to hate on the creator and her staff
Jeez... say man and someone says youre sexist, put a gay character in the show and people say its homophobic etc. Wtf is wrong with people nowadays???
Honestly this is discourse that hasn't shown up since the pilot came out so if people who were offended REALLY cared they would have been talking about it this whole time!
Why bring it up now when the show is days from being aired?
They're attention seekers, plain and simple
Here’s my two cents on all of this When somebody has power obviously someone is going to miss use it not all of them obviously, but some and we also have to remember this as hell. All types of people go there so it isn’t a far stretch that someone knows voodoo
People had 4 god damn years to speak up about this (the pilot came out in 2019). The fact that people are bring this up now, 3 weeks before launch just proves that the haters don't even care about these 'issues', they only want to create drama and be difficult right before the show comes out...
The thing is he didn’t officially practice voodoo before, and was also white back then. People were still pissed, it was just less of a hot topic.
It's a goddamn show about hell and demons! What is wrong with people??
Hell and demons doesn’t mean shit, Viv is the homophobic transphobic one
This needs to stop it's just a fictional character
the fact that the Twitter users tried to use McDonald's as a means to attack viv is wild
Ong
Those character redesigns are absolute garbage. I've seen a few that actually looked good, but just slapping a darker shade on him and doing minor alterations just looks ugly.
"everyone involved in this is going to Super Hell"
"Welcome to the underground"
I feel like that everyone would just pick something to complain about the show to the point that the show gets cancelled or something. If they do I'm gonna be dmso pissed.
*so pissed*
Remember Alastor used voodoo symbols in the pilot and barely anybody talked about it
only NOW it's become a problem
Well it can just go back to RUclips. Plus, at this point, cancellation would be warranted. Vivziepop is immensely transphobic, has drawn an underage (16 year old) boy in leg garters being held by an adult and called it “cute”, and she fetishizes gay men nonstop, but the funny hell show matters more than that I guess
Voodoo is a religion? I thought it was the magic and stuff. Learn something new everyday
im not the most knowledge in this but from my knowledge alastor is mixed and come from louisiana which had a lot of voodoo practiced in it so i dont think its that bad
because a sinners powers reflect their life before death this could mean alastor practiced voodoo during his human life and its simply gone over into demon hood
God people really grasp at any straws just to hate on people more talented or successful than them XD
1. Alastor using voodoo doesn't necessarily mean the show is pushing a negative stereotype, non-evil forms of magic can be used for evil in the wrong hands, and Alastor's hands are certainly not the right ones, villains corrupt things for their own gain all the time. People recognize that Alastor is the one that is evil and doing evil things, not the magic itself, most people probably just think the red symbols look cool and think nothing more of it, so unless they have prior knowledge that these are voodoo symbols they wouldn't have a negative association from Alastor. It's like a firearm, a gun isn't going to kill someone on it's own, it's dangerous, yes, but it can only go off if it is used by someone, and the way it is used depends on the person, and say (going into rambling hypothetical analogy, sorry), if you had no prior knowledge of what guns were, you wouldn't be afraid of it and start hating people with guns (although you could probably assume it's a weapon, like how people would see the symbols and just assume it's a form of magic, but not specifically think of voodoo) because you never encountered them before.
2. Skin color means literally nothing in this universe, what you turn into is based on your personality and how you died, so it's absolutely possible he was black when he was alive and just looks like this now, but either way he could've gotten his hands on something he shouldn't have and used it for his own purposes, so he doesn't necessarily have to be black to be using voodoo, and doesn't need to be "fixed". I think saw something about him being half-creole or something a day or two ago, and if that's why people think he needs to be fixed and made darker skinned... uh... you wanna go back to the days where even if you were 999/1000 white and you had skin that was too dark you weren't considered white and were forced to use worse facilities and still discriminated against, because that's sounding pretty racist of them instead bro. Someone can be partially comprised one a race but be lighter or darker skinned, because that's how genetics works, half of each parent's DNA plus your own unique mutations, so one parent could have been lighter skinned, but no, apparently being half creole means he needs to past a certain shade to be "realistic", do we need to pull out the Home Depot Paint strips and redraw him until he's a dark enough shade to be considered "truly" creole? NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE'S A GODDAMN DEMON RADIO DEER FOX MAN IN HELL WITH SKIN PALER THAN ANY HUMAN TO EVER EXIST.
3. Using authentic symbols honestly requires a lot more effort to get right than using random nonsense, and would get quite a lot of people (who take the time to research this stuff) interested in learning about the actual culture and what the symbols mean, which would lead to less ignorance and harmful stereotypes because more people would know the reality of what it's about. Of course, the context is important, and if it's done poorly, it can legitimately do harm and misrepresent real life cultures, but the show isn't really being disrespectful in my opinion, Alastor is just twisting something for his own means, so the base morality of voodoo is kind of irrelevant, whether it's good or not he's still using it for evil.
4. (This is more miscellaneous rambling than a single question) Who... really cares about offending random Haitian voodoo practitioners...? Why do these people assume all black people side with voodoo and are all offended by this, and how many of the people who are offended actual members of the religion? Why are people so adamant about it being off limits and not allowed to be used in creative works regardless of intention or context, or just... freedom of expression? Last time I checked they can't legally do anything, people abuse and misuse other religious symbols all the time and get praise for it, and it's covered under the same banner, I'm not saying it's right, but uh, tough luck I guess, just go watch something else instead of trying to delete something many other people enjoy from existence and ruining the lives, effort, and passion of those who created it. It's also pretty convenient that this voodoo association with Alastor has been around for years and only now, while the show is set to premiere on Amazon prime, people start complaining. Mcdonalds? KFC? Starbucks? These are THE major franchises, now people have to avoid the biggest, most widespread fast food chains that everyone goes to or she's a racist now?
People really get mad over the stupidest things lol, I'm not really invested in the drama tbh, it's just hard for me to condense my arguments sometimes and I wanted to cover all my weed-fueled thoughts in the moment at 1 (now 2)am, also I'm not talking to the creator or this audience, but this is directed at the people whining abt this
I guess no one cared when DISNEY did the exact same thing in Princess and The Frog.
So we are ignoring the fact that Alastor is canonically Creole with African ancestry? Seems like people are looking for ways to be offended, be interesting if they held the same beliefs about Voodoo being a black only religion and gave the same energy Celtic/Slavic/Norse Paganism being white only. (Five USD says they don't)
1. Alastor is a demon, do they want a regular black dude walking around in hell or something?
2. There are 2 sides of voodoo, the good and the bad, ofc Alastor is going to use the evil Loas, he's in hell for being a serial killer and a cultist
3. Even if you don't like a person, sending death threats is an unreasonable response
I legit didn’t even know voodoo was a religion, holy shit
That person saying “she did this so now i can finally hate her” already just shows so much jealousy and hatred for no good reason… just admitting they always wished to have any empty reason to justify it. They don’t care about voodoo culture at all and probably never have even thought about it twice before.
Unless I see actual practioners complain about it, I say let the show keep the voodoo (vodou? That's how wikipedia spelt it) stuff in. Closed religion or not, I'm sure some people find it cool to see it depicted in any shape or form. Some people like me just like having an excuse to learn something they don't see often.
Mind you, one of my mains in SMITE is Baron Samedi, so I'm somewhat biased.
i would like to challenge anyone who has a problem with this to spend one day asking if there is a reason other then "racism" that something makes them angry.
People really can't leave Viv alone can they?
Maybe she should leave religions that are already stigmatized enough alone
Please, I hate it when people hate on something before EDUCATING themselves or RESEARCHING it.
Maybe vivziepop should have researched it before putting it on her show
There is a lot you can criticise Vivziepop about. This isn't one of them.
These critics failed to realize that bad criticism exist too
why are ppl so soft these days... ong, viv could breathe and the fandom would cancel her for it :skull:
Hey, my friend RJ did not consent to being in this video. That’s a minor who you’re inciting to be harassed and mocked. You’re not slick deleting his comments asking for this to be taken down either.
Also the black and marginalized people also have expressed they also do not like the "of colo(u)r" thing, because of systemic colo(u)rism thing?
ive also noticed that people say viv is terminally online every day or five minutes yet from what ive seen, she waits a few hours before she likes something. And also its usually only a week half a week or a week and a half before she opens her mouth about anything. I guess thats a decent balance of how many hours or minutes she spends on twitter.
i think a show about demons in HELL would be the last place to respect religions
I _really_ hope that post about Vivienne eating McDonald's is satire.
Are we really getting mad at people for just getting a Big Mac.
Twitter users think boycotting multinational billion dollar businesses because of their participation in the Israel-Palestine conflict is gonna change anything
I drink McDonald's Ice coffee 🥰
@@lonerevenant0 I eat their chicken nugs 😌
Any problems with that? Cuz I am pretty sure it's not ur fcking business where other people eat
and like- didn't Vivienne deliberately change the symbols a bit to avoid offence or smith? (idk her intentions, just heard she'd changed them) people really just wanna be mad at viv all the time huh.
welp, this doesn't effect my love for her. and I love how you say at 3:03 that "what food someone is eating doesn't define their political ideology". you're absolutely right!
and who cares about these whiney haters anyway? can't wait for hazbin to release in like 21 days or so! I'm so proud of viv and her team 💖