Build Your Own Dry Sump For A Fraction* Of The Cost
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- Опубликовано: 8 мар 2022
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D-d-d-dang! There's no WAY I could ever afford to save that much money. You truly are an inspiration. All hail
Matt, your honesty and attention to detail and comedic timing are incredible. Your videos are not just entertaining, they are uplifting.
now that you mention it, your right. lol
I lost it at $100 bill being lit on fire
@@mr_voron relax, only about 4 cents was destroyed
This is exactly summing up the frustration from a lot of DIY projects, Love it!
Almost couldn't take it. My pain still is too fresh.
It pretty much sums up why I have projects and not just stuff I need to fix / build. Stuff I need to fix gets done the proper way and projects get done in the most ludicrously over complicated way. There's not many problems in life that can't be solved by a bloody minded stubbornness and a refusal to face reality... And an Arduino.
But it's not frustration it's the adventure of going on the unknown path that's the fun part.
Sure you can just go buy the parts and they'll just fit together... But you wouldn't have an ISO grid on the bottom.
I feel seen and attacked at the same time.
@@TravisFabel it’s more like going on the unknown path thru bushes with sharp thorns parallel to well maintained paved road ;)
Sounds like my style of DIY money saving adventures. Looks great though ;)
*IM 52* when I got to about 48 I stopped saving money on projects - I have saved SO MUCH money since I stopped saving money...
What I do now is I buy the professional thing I need - my eyes water at the cost every time - but at the end of the year I have MONEY. Actual spare money.
definitely is the way i do my projects
I'm definitely going to have to use that fractional logic on my future projects. Just tell people (the wife) that you spent a fraction of the price of a new thing by building it your self, and don't bother with the trivial detail that your fraction is an improper one.
Just show her the material costs. Yes, dear, this lump of aluminium, couple sheets of metal, fasteners and hoses were only a few dollars! The legit setup would be over $1000, I have saved much money! Please do not look at the thousands of dollars in tools, machinery and lost time surrounding those dollars.
Reminds me of ToT, why buy something for $10 when you can make it yourself for free, and a full machine shop, and $30 in materials
@@helplmchoking But if I have to something similar again, then I already have the tools for it. But for the most time, these types of projects tend to need different tools each time 😂
Mom says "hi" right back at you!
The best way to spend money is starting out planning to save money! Lovely video, Matt!
Q. How can I make a small fortune building cheap racecars?
Matt: Well, start with a large fortune...
Great!
"To become a millionaire by racing cars, start out as a billionaire."
Matt's gonna do a budget dry sump from repurposed OEM parts - goddamn, finally! I keep seeing people on GRM saying they wanna do this but it never happens for one reason or another.
It's here! Can't wait to see my boy Matt finally crack this thing - and along the way maybe I'll learn why the commercial dry sump systems are so expensive, what the tricks and compromises are for a locost/DIY approach. Oh, this is gonna be great!
Oh.
I look forward to uploads from this channel more than any other on RUclips regardless of what the project is. As an engineer and lover of tinkering and working on cars I love the way you talk through a project and are humble and sarcastic about the entire design process. Cant wait to see what's next!
MacroMachines is a good one, too. Dude is building a model a roadster from basically scratch. 95% of the car he built. Dude even sandcasted his own pedals. I think the only things he didn't make is the frame, axles, wheels. He even made a plate to bolt a jag I6 to a model a transmission.
Agreed on the fave channel. Quite sadly, I'm constantly checking RUclips for his latest post
Matt:
You can use plain-old oil pumps if you weep a tiny bit of pressurized engine oil back to their inlets. One drop of oil every second and they will run at 7000 rpm pumping otherwise dry air forever. (I tested - it works)
As an aerospace guy, the nodes never line up with anything. You are forgiven.
You could call the Dry Sump system “dead pan” to suit your humour 😐👍🏻🇦🇺
This entire thing is maybe the best piece of deadpan comedy I've seen in years.
Telling mom hello slayed me
Don't count the cost of tools in your budget, you can and will use it on other projects ;)
Yea yeah! Hopefully 😂! All hail mighty algorithm :)
That’s what I keep telling myself…
This reminds me so much of Austin Kleon's life of a project. You always start with "It's the best idea ever!" only to eventually fall into into the abyss. But by then, you're already too involved to just drop it, so you keep on pushing until you reach the "It sucks, but it's not as bad as I thought" moment.
But look on the bright side; all those tools will pay for themselves after the next 25 conversions....
I love this channel, it's so accurate.
I'm about to "save" some money rebuilding the transmission in my "low miles" Econoline. I think I'll save about a thousand by buying all of the specialty tools first, and then save the rest by upgrading to a stage 1 rebuild kit so I don't have to save all of this money a second time.
Did you ever get your Econoline Transmission fixed?
Love your videos, all hail Al Goors Rythem.
6:20 The way Matt phrased "The Better Idea" solution puts so much joy in my mechanic's heart
I loved this episode. I knew immediately that fraction was going to be an improper one. But hey, I feel the pain on this one. Thanks for showing how this stuff really goes on projects!
Feels like a window into my garage. ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM!
Matt, that was brilliant. The whole idea of a "..fraction of the cost..." is genus. A fraction where the the numerator is many times a multiple of the denominator is a "..is too, a legit fraction.." . You must be an engineer, because you clearly have an engineer's understanding of mathematics.
Awesome video! That's usually how it goes whenever I say "I'll build it myself and save money." HAHA
My mom said to tell you "Hi" back.
Fair play, I would have just gone super cheap and baffled the sump with a horizontal plate.
It's what we do in all our race cars made with street car engines. Particularly important when running a formerly FWD traverse engine RWD longitudinal...still overfill those about a quart as drainback under extended Gs is not quite what was designed from the factory.
On engine number 3... :) Can you make just the motor tilt like a motorcycle as it goes to the corners?
I'm envisioning hydraulic cylinders
maybe hang the engine with chains inside the engine bay? And uh some sketchy flex shaft that delivers power to the back?
I can see it!!!
Porsche style active engine mounts? That'd be sick, not sure how much the rest of the drivetrain would like it though
@@Gnarwagon rope shafts thick ones
@@helplmchoking that Porsche dynamic dampening motor mount looks 😎 and it's definitely a downsized version of what I was thinking
Super fast mat is fairly smart, he could probably figure out the degrees it needed to rotate around the crank axis at maximum lateral Gs in order to maintain oil pressure. But I think 60° would be enough
I feel this video so bad. A few years ago I wanted to make a backpack for a specific hobby instead of spending $100ish for one... $250 later I had a backpack...
Oh dear... I suggest that you look at a 1950's British motorcycle dry sump system. It is a reciprocating double pump driven by a crankshaft cam, the large bore pump is the scavenge, the smaller one is feed from the tank (located higher than the engine) to the engine. Simple but effective. The sump in those engines was truly dry. It also has the added advantage of keeping the oil cooler.
Flawless victory, now you can amortise off the investment made in this project against the potential future certainty of buying a 3rd and 4th engine, the labour of having someone else fit it and more! Plus whenever you use the CNC machine you can start moving the cost onto that one's bill. Soon this project will be in negative spend and actually earning you theoretical money. Not real money of course. Thats already gone.
:D
This was clearly the most bugdet friendly way forward, I wouldn't expect anything less!
Would it have been easier/cheaper to do an electric scavenging pumps? Redundancy (2 or 3 separately powered pumps) + put some magnetic encoders and flow meters on them to flash a big red light at you if they stop spinning.
I would also suggest some sort of oil level sensor in the tank.
Most of the electric pumps I've seen suggested for this purpose (for dry sumps and remote mount turbos) are just relabeled transfer pumps, and aren't designed to move oil at operating temperature and will eventually fail..
Though I'd be very interested to see some are actually suitable!
@@MeatPoPsiclez - I'm sure there are some food-grade hot oil pumps, but now you're back in Priceytown.
@@MeatPoPsiclez Sort of reminds me of those "electric turbos" that were sold on eBay and the like. 🤭
The oil pan designing part reminds me of many of my own projects. I will design things to be as efficient as I can until I remember that I don't need to add complexity to chase diminishing returns for performance that doesn't matter.
Looking forward to learning how the air-oil separator is made! 99% of my automotive technical knowledge is from reading. Finally Matt is showing the actual parts and how they work. Thanks Matt!
i might be wrong but the tall reservoir probably acts as a air separator in itself.
Inlet at top tangential to circumference. You get cyclonic separation
I could be wrong (I'm probably wrong) but I think it works similarly to a swirl pot, which Matt talked about in one of his Tesla Jag cooling system videos
@@zackrogers9334 You are not wrong. Swirl Pot. I had a dry-sump in my previous Caterham. The reservoir looked just like a supersized version of the OEM swirl-pot in in the cooling system of my previous Lotus Europa.
I love cost effective DIYs! 👍🏻
All summed up at 8:22.
And yet I still don’t learn…
Did the same with hydraulic scavenge pumps and a 2 gallon reservoir, feeding a 160psi HV oil pump. I used this on a 74 Volvo rally car build in the mid 1980's. I actually stopped using the Volvo redblock 2.0L and went with a full tilt 305 Rpm build, with the homemade drysump. In hindsight I believe I killed the Redblocks from my own errors and inexperience back then in the 80's. I kept melting pistons...but it never once threw a rod or hurt the crank. Those Reds are F1 quality castings!
"Space stuff" 🤣 You're sense of humor and voice over delivery is right up my alley.
For some reason, I don’t get mad when Matt goes way over budget, any other channel I think I’d mind
I started watching this video with the knowledge that spending slightly more than what it would cost to buy it would also count as an improper fraction... So the ending was not unexpected
Yes yes I enjoyed your video, mostly beause I have made a few dry sumps myself. A few were made by the engine itself by being old and using all the oil in the wet sump until it was a dry sump, others were made the easy way such as throwing too much money at the project, which looks much like youre currantly doing, others by combining used oil pumps simmilar to what you had in mind until you chickened out because they had no bearings etc. Just for the records, these pumps work fine when used as scavenge pumps as the never run completely dry. Think about it and you´ll discover why. Thanks for the fun vid🙂
Sorry for the late comment, but I can't, for the life of me, find out why those pumps wouldn't get oil starved and seize...
@@tojiroh They did.
@@h-j.k.8971 They did what?
@@tojiroh sieze uup
@@h-j.k.8971 that's not what you said above. You said they could be used as scavenge pumps since they wouldn't run completely dry, and you didn't elaborate any further. Do you have anything to add?
I love the 710 descriptor. There is a joke: a new driver gets a low oil light, calls his dad to ask about it. His dad says buy a quart, take off the oil cap and dump it in there. The kid cannot find the oil cap. 'dad, all I see is the 710 cap.'
Parts come and go. Tools stay. Expensive tools go into inheritance.
The oil pan looks awesome. 👍
Clicked on the video 17 seconds after it posted. Got two 15 second unskippables.
Excuse me, Sir. Do you have a moment to talk about Brave Browser?
I have the video set to skippable ads, like always. do you usually get unskipable ads?
Depending on the platform you're using, install AdBlock Plus or similar - I never see ads in Matt's videos.
I think I wasn’t clear, 😅. I was just excited to see the next video. Always looking forward to seeing the next stage of any of the projects!
So relatable. Saving money = spending 3 times the amount needed for a finshed product on tools and a lot of time to get a mediocre result
I see no wedding ring, these fractions are starting to make sense now. All hail the algorithm.
Matt I have to say these are my absolute favourite videos on RUclips atm. Quick question though…
How can you afford this stuff😭
Patreon!
Just barely, that's how.
Matt can only afford a fraction of it
Think of it as optimizing the amount of money you have
@@davidbrown8365 82/25 last I saw.
I don’t think I’ve ever laughed that much at a car build video, fantastic work!
My dad was building a race car that had to conform to period specs. A dry sump wasn't an option, so he built a set of 1-way gates in the oil pan so that on turns the oil could not slosh to the side. Worked really well, but took a while to make and get just right.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one following this engineering "process"
Thanks for your videos dude!! This was the channel that got me into engineering
Keep up the videos, just pure amazing content!
I tried isogrids once in a 3d print and found space engineers in my home for no reason, glad I'm not the only one
I’m dry dumping a 1600hp LS right now. It’s the easiest block to plumb I’ve ever done. I even have to make the oil pan from scratch. Good info for beginners.
Been looking to make a diy drysump for a while now
710, yaaaas
@3:42 710!!! 💀 lmaoo I love the sassy smart ass dad humour in this channel
Matt - I repurposed a Chrysler mini-van power steering pump; drove it it from a rear transaxle half shaft with a V-belt like old NASCAR. The output directs a jet of transaxle lube right at the ring and pinion mesh of my upside-down and running backwards Corvair transaxle, used in a Kelmark adapter kit with an SBC - works great; looks great; was free plus my time.
My mom says hi Matt
FOR THE ALGORITHM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's so enjoyable to watch, timing humeur. Love it.
One of the nicest do it yourself dry sump systems I've seen yet. Keep pushing on that string and finish it up, it looks great.
how much amps does the water pump draw? it'll be interesting to see at which rpm the electricals will hit 13.5v with the headlights, blinkers and water pump on
I don’t know, I might need to put in a PWM controller that’s based on coolant temperature rather than just running the pump at full blast all the time. We’ll see
@@SuperfastMatt It would be interesting to see! I am looking at converting my 1991 Jaguar XJ6 to electic fans and yes, on-off control is simpler, but pwm would be nice!
When you say “a fraction”, do you mean like 3/1th of the cost.
fractions can be greater than one
82/25th of the cost
10:07
@@lewa_j - I commented prior to watching, it was a pure fluke that I chose a fraction greater than one. I also like to eat 3/1 of a normal portion of food ;-)
Oh dear, 3 projects on the go at once.
"We do these things not because they are less expensive, but because we didn't know they wouldn't be less expensive." -SuperfastMatt
Who's that Al Gorithm person anyway???
No, no, no. It's Al Gore's jazz band, The Al Gore Rhythms.
@@A.J.1656 😄😅😂😅😄
I've been DIYing stuff for 40plus years. I've got a 40x60 shop full of tools and machines to show for it. The DIY projects usually cost me what it would cost me to pay somebody to do it, except I do it all myself and the machines and tools get paid for with the project budget. I look at it like "sweat equity" to build a dream shop full of tools and equipment. Plus I learn a whole lot along the way, and I can build anything I want in my shop now. So yeah, think of it as a 40yr plan to be mechanically and technically independent by the time you're too old and decrepit to have the will and energy to do anything. LOL
Fractions are FRIENDS!!
Great information about setting up a dry sump system. I have a friend that is building a 67 Midget racecar. He has been looking at the accumulator type. Yours seems so much better. Thanks for the friendy tip.
Engineers always know the best way to do things.
I always appreciate the "what went wrong" portion of these videos because that's the part that I can most relate to.
Explained dry sumps nicely! 👍👌
I love this, was planning to do something diy for my K20, in terms of oil supply, given the fact that i'm on a tight budget. This helps a LOT.
Great video. Just what I was looking for.
I have a 98 Pathfinder 3.3L with a similar oil pump. It was an elderly couple's for 20 years. I don't think they used it much. Low miles, 6,000 a year average, and likely wasn't driven hard ever. I think they let oil sit in it and maybe their mechanic put snake oil in it as a sales pitch. There was gummy honey-colored stuff on the refill cap.
Something is causing this Pathfinder to knock at startup for 3-4 seconds and then between 1,800 and 3,300 RPM. If coasting between 1800 and 3300, it ceases. I think I caught rod bearing wear early and I replaced them. And checked the mains. Mains were good. Two rods had mild wear. No slack or slope in anything. Metal flakes stopped appearing. But still the knock between those RPM. It runs perfectly, otherwise. And the body and interior is like new. So it's a nice one I'd like to keep long-term.
What do you think about this idea?
If the oil isn't changed well can the valve system in the pump stick or malfunction and cause oil pressure to be insufficient? The pressure is 100% consistently poor at startup for 3 seconds and under load between 1800 to 3300 RPM. Makes no sense, this loss of pressure at fixed time, other than faulty pump.
I know there is also a pan gasket leak at the front and back. I thinned the oil as an experiment to see if pressure/noise changed and oil began quickly dripping from both ends of the oil pan when it was at warm idle. I thinned the oil 50% with motor flush, which is basically kerosene. I drained out two quarts and put in 2 quarts cleaner. So I have to pull the pan anyways to fix those leaks, so might as well pull inspect and replace the pump as well. Also have to check timing as well and swap all those parts as their age is unknown. The pressure problem was present before the leaks were noted. So the big leaks are new and the problem is the exact same.
Do you know of a good oil pump replacement video of my motor or very similar? I found a timing kit one, but no oil pump.
3:40 Downhills should be considered to
Your videos bring me life. Your comedy and humbleness is so good!
love the humor on top of all the awesome stuff you do
For shorter transient stuff you can design a good wet sump that comes close and it's dead simple. Not good enough for long sweepers, however I got around a long sweeper with mine without losing pressure pulling about 1G (not great, I know, but if you saw what I was in you'd be impressed). You did the right thing going dry sump, but LOL @ the costings :-D
Gerotor is what that style of pump is called. All you needed was a much larger capacity deep oil pan with some baffling . cheap easy effective.
My buddy Jesse Britsen founded BRD back in 2008. He builds dry sump systems for all the popular bike engines. We worked together at west race cars. We built a really quality D sports racer. All bike engine powered sports racers. We also were a manufacturer for IMSA lites. A feeder series for American lemans. We both were crew chiefs on the cars for many years. So we are well versed in the issues of keeping a bike engine well oiled in a sports racer with massive downforce and super high G loads. Some guys had decent success with gated wet sump pans. But it was very track dependent. Ac usurps were a joke on F1000 and sports racers. Might be fine on a track day car. My racing days are over. But I am building a Mini Cooper for a customer. That has a George dean built hyabusa. With a BRD drysump and quaife drive box. I just wanted to share my experience of racing motorcycle powered races cars. I love your s600! I’ve always wanted to build a car for myself one day! The S600 is so right for a modern moto power plant! 😁
Rebuilt an old Nascar 3 stage for a 4 cylinder and got used tanks and such. It was cheaper, but not by a huge factor for sure. I guess it helped that no one was still producing the kits for the engine I had.
🔥🔥 amazing work thanks for all the info
You & I think a lot alike. I really appreciate what it takes to create your own anything. Anyone can just shell out the dough, but to mostly create it yourself is cool, even if it doesn't necessarily save $ in the short-term. You'll use the tools again, or some friend will need to borrow etc. Plus you understand every facet of your oil system. Great job!
Matt, I'm neither looking or subscribing (in general, not personal), and I still get (and watch) your vids (including old ones) in my feed.
Praise the algorithm
Love your work, video production is great. Knowledge and realistic/10. Earned a sub and a fan 👊🏾
I absolutely love this series. Partly because I love to put ISO grids on things that don't need them and take on challenging projects and bodge my way through
Mom says hi too.
Thanks for the inspiration and keep on trucking!
KOOL STUFF
Shows what anyone can do with innovation and ingenuity - good work Matt
Love your videos man, keep up the great work!
That was might fun ! Doing the exact same kind of stupid stuff on an aircraft engine (dry sump, plus oil cooler, ...) and I can definitely relate. An fittings are expensive but think that for a DIYer they are very valuable because they are so modular. you can always find an adapter or fitting that will work for you and mate with the other fittings. Plus when you have a lathe and mill, it is quite easy to make your very own special adapters when all else fails !
Love your humor, Matt! Always look forward to your videos
I love the fun commentary and condense editing of your videos
Having done it many times in my life, designing a properly-functioning dry sump oil tank is one of THE most difficult engineering tasks in building a racing vehicle. The tank has to collect, cool, and remove ALL of the air from the returning oil or it will quickly be identified as THE part that most contributed to the destruction of the engine it's attached to!!
I saw someone mentioned your name on another platform so, I looked you up, I very glad I did! People always say spend twice as much and twice the time to diy!
All hail the algorithm.
Though I will likely never do anything close to what you do for my 65 Corvair turbo build, but I learn a ton! Thanks man!
Back in motorsports school we tried to use a multi section hydraulic pump from a commercial application. We sized one with a similiar rotational volume, got it cheap off ebay. There were several small modifications that we made to the pump to make sure things stayed "in place", it actually worked pretty well. It weighed A LOT, but it was cool to try it.
Pretty interesting: as motorcycle engines are designed to ALWAYS have oil at the bottom in the intended use case (not doing wheelies), when you put them in a car, which instead of leaning (which applies centripete force to the oil so it sticks to the bottom no matter how much you're leaning), just applies the centripete force to the side and therefore you starve oil from the pump and there you go, destroyed engine.
Never though about that but makes sense.
I know you already spent money fixing your issue, but i have a Locost 7 with R1 engine and the way i fixed the oiling issue was very different and a fraction of the cost you spent. I used a section of PVC in the center where the pickup pulled oil from to create a skinny cylinder area in the center of the oil pan for the oil pump to pickup oil from, then using silicone i poured in the oil pan filling all the area around the PVC pipe up to the top of the oil pan mating surface. This leaves the only area for oil to sit inside the oil pan is inside that cylinder cavity the PVC pipe left behind. Then i removed the PVC pipe and trimmed the silicone to smoothen out any defects from the pour. Then on the side that is facing the front of the car i welded in a 1 inch bung, which i have copper tubing connected to wrapped around the bottom of the engine at the level of the OEM pan oil level giving me capacity. The engine's oil pump pulls oil from the skinny cylinder void in the oil pan to feed the engine. The oil draining back into the oil pan is forced to drain into that small cavity in the center of the oil pan since the silicone is filling the rest of the oil pan area. The excess oil via gravity drains into the copper pipe to give the engine oil capacity, which gravity is constantly trying to drain back into the oil pan. When the engine is turned off the oil drains into the copper pipe to maintain the stock oil level. I placed the bung for the spillover point at the side of the engine facing the front of the car, so under acceleration the oil in the copper pipe is given advantage to drain into the oil pan easier. This has worked perfectly for me. I did have to relocate the drain plug since silicone covered the original one. The way i change oil and check oil level is purely by ball valve. On the copper tubing that wraps around the bottom of the engine. I have a bracket holding the end of that tubing at the level the oil level needs to be at, so i just open that ball valve and pour oil into the engine and when it starts dripping out of the ball valve its at level and i shut it off to seal the oil system.
For about 2 weeks I've been binge watching all of your videos. Thank you
Yes I did! and you fully talked me out of a dry sump .. buying the OEM pan and pump instead - expensive, yes .. but so much cheaper .. thank you!