Building my 500whp Daily Driver STI - Episode 1
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- The Stock EJ257 engine in my STI blew up, so I guess now it's time to build a 500whp engine?
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Music:
“Smoke And Mirrors” - Taiym - JBCA2Y4RZJCUY3OH
“The Pain Of Losing Love” - Kurtis Parks - CMNLA8OHQ52BNRGA
“In Silence” - Moments - JGQH8RCC0O3S8UKB
“After After Party” - Neon Beach - FGGDVUJGWX6GZYI8
“Halogen” - Neon Beach - LAE1FDGF5AK1UIF9
“Still Chasin” Brent Wood - X8CO3JUM6EQYZxqVNK
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - Complete Tear down
08:34 - Build Begins 
Авто/Мото
I love how the mechanic is just having a good time tearing down the engine and diagnosing it while Ben just looks sad
He's a Subaru specialist, if he didn't laugh he'd cry 😂
Everyone knows it's your problem if your car blows up on the dyno
😂
@@FaZe_gay are you actually gay
The salt in the wounds
7:15 Ben looking at his motor as he's holding his head gasket is the funniest thing I've seen
I saw this comment right after that scene. Went back.😂
It's not funny :(
Ben's holding himself, literally.
And so the rabbit hole of owning any turbocharged subaru continues. I look forward to this one
This was so heart wrenching as an enthusiast to watch, but at least it let go on the dyno rather than out in the middle of nowhere leaving you stranded. Looking forward to seeing how it comes back better than ever though!
It’s expected though, Subarus are notorious for failing, as flat 4 engines by design are prone to failure
@@nalong55 How are they? The only thing I can think of is the fact that one of the cylinders gets oil and coolant last.
@@KartsAgainstHumanity ruclips.net/video/bJSYDBjkJNQ/видео.html
@@nalong55 no they are not
previous owners has no brains and hands grow from their shoulders to keep car services
that a result
Subaru's motors in 25% of car manufacturers best reliability list (at least those who not doing electric car crap already)
by your logic every Subaru that drive past me - is blow up every minute
You can just feel bens pain, staring into his disassembled engine.
staged pain.. he knew going into it that he was going to be building a 500hp monster.
Buying a 5th owner Subaru he should expect the engine is on borrowed time.
@@greenrolaids As a former EJ victim, I've felt that pain...that was not staged.
Yeah man. Well My team and I put together a motor and my speed6 barely idles. Gotta go plan C. 😭😂
with a headgasket in his hand! That's subaru art right there
One thing I like about G&G you guys sure pick camera friendly people.
what does camera friendly mean?
They enjoy or at least arent opposed to being on camera. Lots of people are camera shy and don’t want to be filmed, especially while doing their job. These guys thay G&G pick are the opposite, they seem to like being filmed and even go out of their way to explain things further to the camera. Helps the videos tremendously
@@dcerioclt9942 thx
@Dennis Y ??? what
@Dennis Y what are you talking about
I enjoy the mechanic’s personality. He’s a huge nerd, making over 9000 references, and has energy doing his job. I’m hoping to see him in the future videos.
There's no love for the original "over 8000" line from the original Japanese manga. When it was dubbed in English, for some strange reason it was changed to 9000
This is a certified Subaru moment
He bought a lemon 🍋
American Subaru moment* japan and europe never got these EJ257 motors with 1000 issues they got the EJ207 2.0L twinscroll 8250rpm redline. None of that ringland nonsense you always see in the US.
@@bumamotorsport4573 I think it has nothing to do on where it was built. In murica, they modified the heck out of these things and brand them unreliable in the event that it can't hold 40 psi of boost. LMAO. We owned a 2016 sti and sold it last year. Put roughly 110k miles on it. Left it stock and it ran like clockwork. I even expected it to burn oil reaching 90k but it didn't. With regular maintenance, and almost no engine modifications, these subarus can be very reliable.
@@tanthaman whats a lemon?
@@drevro an unreliable car
The broken ring leading to rod bearing failure does not add up. The broken ring will not contribute to much higher bore friction. It will have no tension and float in the ring land, causing a loss of compression, but not a rod bearing failure. There would not be significant additional friction in the bore, and if for some reason there was, the rod itself would fail at high angular load before the bearing. The bore would show extreme wear. The piston domes should also show a high degree of pitting and erosion if it was running that lean and with detonation that aggressive.
The bottom line is that rod bearing failure at that low of a power level is due to an oil starvation event. Something went sideways with the oiling system upgrades.
Also, coloration of the valvetrain area should not be read into. The PCV routing causes different vapours on each side which leads to different deposits. You will see this in most V engines and even inline engines with separate valve covers (e.g. 2JZ).
I was looking for this comment! As a mechanic I also don't buy the "running lean" theory. I admit I'm not a Subaru tuner but the story was not adding up. Is it possible something went wrong with the new oil pickup? It's sad that we don't know the true cause of this failure. Even if it was running lean as they claim, there's no evidence as to why. And I don't believe that a 305-hp engine would run out the OEM fuel system putting 257 wheel horsepower down on the dyno.
@@RyanRiopel Do you think the first dyno pull had anything to do with it?
I love this mechanic man you can really tell he loves his job that’s how you know everything going to come out Great 👍
Except who puts sealant all over rocker cover gaskets? It’s more likely to leak now
5th owner at 62k miles. That’s a red flag, Ben. There’s a reason the car changed hands so many times before.
lol seriously.
it's likely the previous owners didn't maintain the car also
I'm not a hard-core geared, but yeah hearing 5th owner is Major redflag...
He bought a lemon 🍋
This whole Subaru journey of his played out so many times already. He wants a RUclips funded Fully built STI.. it’s all he ever wanted to be but of course with the help of people who actually knows subaru and with the money he doesn’t need to work hard for 😂.
It is amazing the breakdrown of an engine. The number of parts and putting the engine back together blows my mind
Thats a big reason I bought mine new. Proper break in, proper maintenance, and generally not abusing the motor. Who knows what the other four owners did. Launching the car, improper maintenance, banging rev limiter during cold starts, doing donuts when it’s a quart low on oil, who knows. Hopefully Ben saved enough money buying used to cover the rebuild.
he still has money from his GoFundMe. he’ll be fine
Doesn’t matter. Buddy bought a brand new WRX and spun a rod bearing at 1000 miles. Never even gave it full throttle until 1000 miles lol
Ringland failure at 69K on my stock STI. Absolute garbage motor.
Ben looks like he's in a hospital waiting room waiting for the doctor to give him some bad news about a loved one.
Wow, 24 seconds after 6am when I first wake up on a Saturday morning and this is the first video I always watch. You guys have literally become my Saturday morning cartoons. The quality of these videos is unexplainable cause the mood with the ambiance just flows so well. Hopefully you guys will pass by my hometown of Monrovia again to wash your cars! Maybe another drive up into Angeles Crest perhaps?
He bought a lemon 🍋
Can not wait for the episode 2
the magnum block and stage 2 heads… that’s WAYYYY more than needed for a 500whp setup. Ben went crazy with the reliability game
Going over doesn't always mean more reliable when you consider the tolerances things are built to for different power levels
And yet it won't matter because the EJ has some critical design flaws.
@@williamrori1274 YUUUUP. I really hope (for his sake) Ben goes with a dry sump.
@@williamrori1274 do you think Iag takes care of a lot of those shortcomings by Subaru?
He meant reliable at 500+ hp 😂
never buy a 5 owner STI. I was leary about buying a 1 owner STI but all he upgraded was the exhaust and the brakes and he had all the maintenance records, oil change every 3k etc.
The fact that a lot of people never give up on these cars is commendable! Also, they're just really stubborn lmao
the VA chassis are infamous for running lean on a stage 2 cobb tune. Always best to upgrade the fuel injection system with that much flow. I kept mine stage 1+ for this reason. Excited to see a rebuild and please understand that this was not your fault that this happened!
The mechanic has experience launching rods to the moon. That’s why he’s the mechanic, had the most practice testing and blowing shit up. Just take it from me. Get your subie going. Then immediately start building your next block, and have it ready on stand by. Then another. And eventually have 2 complete motors that are basically identical and it makes life so much easier.
See, I didn't realise he was the 5th owner! Even bigger question would be, the type of owners before him?
As another EJ owner, couldn't help feel so saddened by this video
Can't you see on the carfax how many previous owners the car had? I dont see why anyone would buy an Sti with 5 previous owners lmao
@@brogu6071 unsure as I'm not from the USA but yes agree, if they knew, not the wisest
It was a good deal, i knew what I was getting into. But didnt want to spend over 30k on a subaru. Ironic now, I know..
@@GearsandGasoline I actually had a feeling it could've been for that reason hence why you got it. Alas, still love your content. Can't wait for the next episode! Got me all sad in this episode!
@@GearsandGasoline on the plus side, this series wouldn't exist if it didn't break. I remember buying my first suv from a dealer which was absolutely fucked up ( learned after bought). But 7 years down the line I became pretty good around automobiles & that SUV is prestine now. Cheers.
I have a similar setup on my STI. 522whp for about 5k miles and she hasn’t skipped a beat. Hopefully it stays good for the long term. Best of luck!
What's your total dollar amount so far?
@@Hawk7886 excluding cost of the car it’s about $30k including labor
@@cambronjohnson7175 Just curious, was the block the largest purchase item? I'm running an IAG 2.5 closed-deck with stage 2 BC cams and an Blouch 20G-XTR in stock location (no flex fuel setup because E85 isn't readily available where I live). My setup with labor was about 1/2 your cost.
@@cambronjohnson7175 would you say the ej20 out of the Japanese sti are more reliable (daily driving it stock that is)? Looking to purchase one if the price is right.
@@chron151 I am running a IAG Magnum block, Blouch 2.5XTR, custom fuel system firewall forward with walbro 450 and set up for E85, ETS front mount, ETS ELH, ID1300s, 1/2 head studs with firelock head gaskets. I should have noted that that cost was for the total build which included other things like coils, big brake kit, tune, carbon driveshaft, adjustable rear lower control arms, gauges, and other miscellaneous items
Hi G & G, I just like to say that the level of quality in your videos is amazing! Like how is it that this channel does not have a million subscribers already, that crazy! Not only the camera quality footage is fantastic but also the maintenance part of it too. Like you guys will go through everything little thing in the cars to fix, replace, or to touch up that a lot of other car enthusiasts wouldn't do, even just simple maintenance things. You guys seem to tackle every little problem/upgrades on your cars without doing short cuts and that says a lot about you guys! Real "get the job done right" type of guys and that alone say something special about the both of you. It is really inspiring! Someday I would love to make high quality car content like you guys and start putting in lap times in my own car as well. I am glad a channel like this one exist because it had easily became one of my favorite channels to watch and be on the lookout for the next new video. I hope the build goes well! Thanks you guys for what y'all do!
I go back to Ben’s (and my) Spec B days. Every time I think about getting back into a turbo Subaru, I watch something like this. Good luck, Ben!
I've been there, as most Subaru owners have. It feels awful.
But I'm so excited for a built IAG block series. This is gonna be awesome!
Love this attitude
Tried making engine reliable
Blows up
F*** IT LETS GO RACING BOIII
Love the video!!!! Glad you upload this first before the trip.
Subarus are such a mixed bag.
I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with them, both heavily modded and stock. My 2013 wrx had over 100,000kms on the OEM engine, tuned from 800kms, prettt much FBO and never had an issue other than oil changes, but as I said, every car is different.
5 owners is a bit of an unknown, can happen to any car, just sucks that it keeps happening to him lol.
People have just as many issues with any other brand, just it’s not as projected. Looking forward to seeing this build.
As a former STI hatch owner, I have such a love hate relationship with these cars man. The hydraulic steering feedback, the feeling of the 6 speed with proper bushings, the practicality, and of course the rumble. But my God are these things unreliable heaps of poo. And they cost way too much just to make 400WHP reliably.
Here here, i am an owner of a 03 STI, its been 8 years and I have easily spent over 20k and yet to crack 400WHP lmao.
My 2005 STI has 92,000 miles on the original engine.
@@AndyQuinton That shouldn't be noteworthy my dude.
@@hendrahendra you stylish person you
He bought a lemon 🍋
rod knock: it's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru
intent to disagree
What an amazing build, this guy knows his stuff!
Ive had my sti since 2018 and it`s been reliable. 80,000 miles from all the driving from school and back. Only thing I needed to replace was tires and ive had 6 oil changes at subaru dealership. Even stock for stock I have redlined the engine every other day and raced against modified wrx and older sti.
Same thing happened to my sti, 2 of the cylinders lost compression after owning it for less than a year, but it already had 53K miles when I bought it, luckily it was covered under warranty 😬😬
I did my ringlands at 30k kms
2 years old , 2018 Sti ☹️
Unfortunately that’s the name of the game. Every car has its ups and downs, some have engine issues, transmission issues, electrical, etc… Just gotta pick the car that makes you happy and overcome the hurdles that come with it and enjoy the car! Good luck Ben!
Price of motor you can buy your self a new car. . And why did you have to put dyno ?? Your car 🚗 had Power for a daily Drive r. That’s my opinion. One. Friend. To another. Thank you ☺️
So excited to see the road trip with this thing!
100% the way to go. I run an IAG Stage 3 Xtreme block with an FP Green on Pump 93 makes a healthy 527whp. Not sure what that Garett turbo will produce but promise you will love the setup! Can’t wait for it to finish!
Bravo 👏 when something fails you should always build it better!
Ive had 4 subarus, each and every time i said to myself i wouldnt buy another one .............
I now have an evo and never regret it
You like unreliable and DSM junk RIP future investments
I had 2 Subaru STi, both blown engines especially my track one. Both tuned by the best local tuner and these things still blow up. Bought a Type R and best decision I have made.
@@jonathanxtapia good choice! Last STI I blew was in 2007 haven't looked back since
Im not a subi/evo guy and I never understood the trash talk until I owned a WRX haha
Same boat (except I moved on to Porsche). My WRX was the only car I've feared driving, solely because of its heinous reliability.
Thank you for freaking out and going all in!!!
I was the second owner of a 2006 WRX wagon; previous owner had every receipt/slip for maintenance of the vehicle through it's life, it was their third vehicle (behind a BMW & A Porsche), they were also an adult & kept it completely stock. I maintained it myself until I sold it November 2019 with ~135k miles on it (IIRC), still on the stock internals, head gaskets, original trans & rear LSD... A bunch of other crap gave up the ghost along the way, and I started modifying it at 60k once the warranty was up, but it never kerploded on me, I felt like I was on borrowed time from 100k on however. When I say "a bunch of other crap gave up the ghost along the way" I mean a bunch.... every bushing, endlinks, struts, cooling system (water pump didn't fail, but I replaced it when I did the timing belt to be safe), clutch @ 100k, calipers started needing to be rebuilt/replaced from 80k, by 100k it had a full set of refurbished ones, fuel pump, two injectors, secondary air pump died at 80k, original downpipe/cats were done by 85k, there is way more, I kept a spreadsheet, but it was in a state of nearly constant repair/upkeep. when I sold it I was on the fence about keeping it and doing an STi drivetrain swap as the 5spd trans was getting noisy, center diff wasn't performing properly (more FWD than AWD) & the rear diff wasn't locking up that well anymore, but I sold it (with full disclosure to the new owner) and bought an IS350 RWD instead. The past 2.5 years have been heaven; I've done two oil changes, a set of wheels and tires (rear tires were worn... for some reason...) I went to a square stance (18x9 flow formed wheels w/255 at all four corners), and I just did a front brake job a couple weeks ago (rear still have plenty of life left). The Lexus is also a Toyota at heart, so it's infinitely easier to work on; all of the front brake & suspension components are aluminum so everything comes apart easier (no dissimilar metal interactions). I wish it were a manual and a wagon though.
After 10 years I let my passion for these cars go. The heart break was not worth the rumble.
Everything is reliable until it isn't 😄
Best wishes with Motor V2
So glad to see this build getting good parts.
I'm happy to see you not give up on subi. Still waiting for a update on the ZX2
"you keep saying the word reliability, I don't think it means what you think it means"
reliability to drain bank account
If I say it enough, maybe it will happen?
This is the 3rd lightly modded Subaru I’ve seen have issues IMMIDiATELY after doing the “reliability” mods. I’d look into that. There’s some research out there saying the cylinder 4 cooling mod is actually does opposite of what people think it does.
Yeah I personally havent seen any solidified evidence that the cyl 4 cool mod truly improves longevity the motors
Every turbo Subaru I’ve seen that has to get its small block replaced due detention has had a air oil separator. It may be just a coincidence.
Love Gears & Gasoline Vids. Entertaining and informative. Keep em coming!
Honestly, once you guys got it a part it makes a lot of sense why it let go. Engine had been apart before, probably from extended oil intervals. 5th owner at 60k miles, unfortunately how things go sometimes with these cars. Glad to see the comeback!
I have spent 20k between two separate failures on my EJ in the last 2.5 years. This doesn’t include 18k for the car plus bunch of parts I’ve bought. And the car has always been taken care of well by me. So it’s okay Ben.
When people tell me they want one, I tell them the truth… have deep pockets and be ready
I had the exact same experience, Noe. The second rebuild was strictly so we could sell it.
It drives me nuts when people think it's just abuse from the prior owner, when perfectly babied stock EJs blow up just the same. The best thing we ever did was sell our Subie.
@@MegaNardman I’ve thought of selling mine but I will repeat the cosmetic modding process all over again on whatever platform I choose next.
I went the route Ben did, except not as extreme to keep it low power and reliable with IAG stage 2 block that can handle power.
Curious, what platform did you move to after selling your subie?
@@boyflexnv first (around 6 years ago) we got an 07 infiniti g35 6mt coupe, which was thoroughly drama free. This last year we moved on to a '13 Boxster S. There was also an NB Miata that got thrashed on and hooped out for 160k miles as well.
The subie had more problems in the first year (before popping two engines) than all three of these cars, combined.
Time to 4g63 swap it!
I am so happy that you decided to build the car for the daily. I am in a civic si that I daily right now. Good luck out there but honestly with that set up you going to be going places real quick.
informative! Thanks for telling us details, how's and why's rather than just building it
Rod knock. It what makes a Subaru a Subaru. I love my WRX but it’s a time bomb.
OH BOY another twenty part build series on a Subaru! I wonder if the engine is blown or if it needs head gaskets!? I can't wait to watch this!
-nobody
What a nugget, waste of money.
then why are you here
And so the rabbit hole starts! Excited for this
I can't wait to see what kind of power it make now.. Good luck.
Turning lemons into a delicious lemonade! Well played, Smart Ben, well played. Pretty sure you faked that engine failure so you could do this build haha. (you know some asshat is going to comment that, so I may as well get it out of the way here).
So they're guessing it went lean and caused knock which caused loss of compression...both which are things that would and should be seen either live or immediately after in the log by a even halfway decent tuner. After that I wouldn't trust anything they do.
That's a very good point
I wrote a comment just like this. These guys are irresponsible running the car so hard without watching the gauges/computer and once down own power it should have been a huge red flag.
It was COBB tuned.
@@qmqz_ so then the responsibility is shared between dyno operator and COBB? I'm pretty sure if COBB is remotely tuning the car someone is taking Logs and there should still be a Dyno O2 probe being used?
@@RBGgermanKX250F it was tuned prior to G&G ownership, and anything other than that information is speculation as they have not stated what manner it was tuned in; dyno, street, remote, etc. You also do not need a dyno for COBB.
It really funny. Since the day he bought it hardly see him drive it and learn the characteristics of the car. Non-stop modding and changing parts.
Hell yea. This is nice for someone like me who wants to eventually have a 500whp sti
What is the one question you don't want to ask your engine? "Who's there?"
I would love to know the total cost of all the items in this video. Great work.
The short block alone is $6k. Probably $15k retail in parts total. $20k total with shop labor probably, for a normal person. But this is a fairly big YT channel with sponsors and featuring various companies in the video. They never have to pay full price because of the exchange in value of video exposure.
I'm super glad you guys are making this series...well it sucks your engine blew up, but it gives me a pathway to build an engine like this one!! Goodluck
Best editing work on RUclips, period!
Listening to the new build list and hearing E85…
…When did the filming start for this? 😅 God I really hope this got finished before the Cobb nerf…
If u go on their Instagram. Theve already left like weeks ago on another road trip in the Sti lol
You can still Run E85 Straight. you just cant Run Flex tunes so he has to only fuel with E85 and then to switch back needs to do it carefully. it just makes it more annoying to switch or make sure your getting close to 85% also / whatever it was tuned on
Total cost for the build? Including shop fees
All those parts are at least $15k retail
Watching how engines and anything car related be built and torn down is always a fun learning experience.
Best video in a while. All the feels
Ben: The stock motor blew up :(
Me: *feels bad*
Also Ben: I am building a forged engine good for 500hp :)
Me: *facepalm*
It blew up? I bet it wasn't the tune!
Do you think he will use the same tuner?
I hope it runs great. Will be waiting for next posting.
same thing happened to me but im still in the saving money process lol. glad ben moved so quickly. i can find some guidance through these videos. thanks
How would the engine run lean due to insufficient fueling without throwing errors from the lambda sensors? I would assume that any halfway decent tuner in the past would have added power while monitoring the air/fuel ratio.
It only needs to run lean one time while at the top of a pull before things go pop
Yeah this seems strange. Tuning the car to be reliable and somehow ending up in a situation where it isn’t getting enough fuel…
Think it was on a cobb can tune, so just dyno run and not actually tuning?
@@DavidT97 Ah well, maybe it was a faulty injector or something.
@@schmuhf probably not, they don't have phenomenal fueling stock. It's a good idea to upgrade the pump and injectors before doing anything else.
Guys shouldnt there by a new video by now? Is everything ok?
I have been there and I know you spent so much money. Hope ur truly happy with it.
This new build should be very exciting!
*500hp and daily driver subaru don’t go together in the same sentence*
This one big reasons I avoided Subarus it’s unfortunate because it they look and sound pretty cool
Being a mechanic is one of the most amazing skills I've ever seen.
As an Rx-7 owner it's nice to know rotaries aren't the only thing that die at 60k miles
“500hp” and “daily driver” go together like ketchup on fruit.
😂😂😂
He bought a lemon 🍋
@@tanthaman omg stop already
Peanut butter and mayo sandwich
How I spent $40,000 to get 500whp
That's every subaru I have friends with 60k in new wrx 15+ still make 400 whp on third engines ect
Whats the price for this while engine setup?
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks you can make 500whp on a stock K series lol
Why do people do this to themselves 😂
not really same car but i can get 500 RWHP with just full bolt ons and tune in a newer 5.0 Mustang GT, and the power potential is only beginning
This whole thing just reminds me of ecoboost mustang owners putting a buncha money in trying to increase the power when they couldve just bought a 5.0 from the get go and be way more reliable.
Hoping this new motor will last, looking forward to seeing your trip from Florida to Alaska soon
Notifications always active, success guys
So frustrating that the previous owners beat on it and didn't keep up on maintenance 😖 glad it has found a home that's taking care of it in you guys! 🙌
Do your maintenance people Subies will love you if you love them!!! 💙 we have 2 sg foresters 1 is going strong at 185k on the original block with maintenance records leading up to us and us continuing to do full maintenance while the other needed a new engine when we bought it at 100k because it had been beat maintenance wasn't done right 🤷♂️
Great video! Well done team
G&G hear me out!!!! Your video Motivates me So much to continue on my Build, and Even when tough times occur you guys always keep good energy Love You Guys!!!!! Keep it Up!!!!!!
Love when you film at Andrewtech . There are my boys !! Great place!! Great people..
I don't watch your guys videos too often but every now and then I watch your videos it reminds me of what I love about the car community despite me only having one friend into cars but he enlisted so now I'm kinda lonely in the "car community" but I want to experience modifying my car in the future man, I really wanna have fun with my car (3g eclipse rs manual trans) and turn it into a touge monster
Edit: tried finding a lsd for the car since I want to eventually track it, but it's discontinued so I can't find one... if anyone here in the comments knows some company who makes custom lsd's I will appreciate it so much and will save a car from going to the junker when it blows lol
Ben I feel your pain 110%. Subaru life is a tough life to live. Wishin’ ya’ luck homie. 🤙🏾
I feel for you man. Just lost a headgasket on mine. 2016 on stock power with all reliability mods. Mechanic tells me I did everything right but it's the luck of the draw. I love my car but I'll never buy another Subaru.
Dude you should make 1Hr episode.
love to watch all you video in longer duration
that engine looks so sick
Just found your channel I fw it love the quality of your videos
This is gonna be sick
My guy Riyaad! Always coming in the clutch!
I enjoyed the mechanic personality alot
Love seeing the tech dent the block with the pry bar
The mechanic personality is good 👍
IV learned from my Cummins that the round fire rings are the best type to use. Due to they don’t chatter during high boost and spin like the square ones do