This is great fun. I like how, with the changing lighting over the video, Ash ends up looking like a character from John Carpenter's "The Thing". Box quality is so important.
Hey I know most of those guys! Jay, I still use the Steel legion you gave me all those years ago! I am super looking forwards to this edition, feels like 8th which was a needed refresh after abysmal 7th.
I'm definitely an old man shouts at cloud type. So much so that if a Dread doesn't break your toe if you drop it, then it requires a reminiscence of a more hallowed time followed by "and when I was your age we only had 4 TV channels!" (old time fables from the UK).
So Ash is saying he is the 40k equivalent of the arms-crossed guy at the back of the show. Welcome to the club. Let the kids spike their hair, we have better beer, but we DO have to be at work in the morning.
If ash is the arms crossed guy I aspire to be the middle aged guy with the back pack standing to the side of the PA looking a little anxious because he has 3 more shows he hopes to make it to.
That's funny you talking about the call of duty stuff. I recently wrote an article for a french fanzine called "how miniature wargames became a video game". Playing a miniature game (and people in France use the English word "game", which is an habit coming from video games) has never feel so like playing StarCraft game.
Anyone remember when AoS 2.5 ruleset dropped and they changed the pile-in rule from "to closest MODEL" to "to closest UNIT"? So why the hell did they decide to implement AoS' fight phase and not bring over the 2.5 rule-change?
As someone who played three games of 9th, got tabled all three times by Turn 2 and never touched it again, I'm hoping that Combat Patrol takes off. The game genuinely needs a casual format, because the worst part about 40K is that you either play competitive or not at all. The AOS-ification of 40K makes me optimistic, but GW has a high bar to clear before I give the game another chance.
Surprised at how heavily they're invested in the Combat Patrol mode. Bodes well for me as that's the mode that interests me. I suspect that they will bring out more Combat Patrols in future, cycling out older ones for newer ones to keep some spice and variety in that game mode and having it align with their newer model releases and hook people onto the purchase treadmill.
Nice models Unsure about some of the rules changes Waiting on indices and then codices to be sure of the direction As for story direction, 9th started against the Necrons (with Marines and Sisters double teaming said Necrons) ... That lasted all of 5 minutes before it was back to focusing on the war with Chaos (and no more multiple detachments, from within your own faction or not --- everybody from the same faction+subfaction barring very few exceptions)
nice debat, finaly combat patrol box are like on player starter box from warmachine, horde and a bunch of others games (almost all others) minus the rules !
Great format! Personally don't really care about 40K and still very skeptical if after the initial period the game will stay true to the marketed vision for 10th...So many better streamlined systems out there and better overall designs - that are always just overshadowed by anything 40K - even if they are 10 years behind from a game design perspective. But great chat! Still that is the world we live in and as a long time AoS player (no longer care for anything GW) GW does many things right and you can understand the attraction, popularity and loyalty...Kinda like music, while I have very specific rock and metal tastes, I kinda get why pop, Ed Sheeran, Nickelback and Coldplay is popular and that there is a very deliberate skill, talent and legit musicianship behind it all...okay maybe not Nickelback :) (Of course the 40k lore and universe is a very very big selling point as well - but again I find the whole "grim dark" stuff laughably teenagey and dumb...so I just its presence and being able to "play with you toys" almost anywhere...)
The dreadnought was a missed opportunity to give 40k some more neo-volkite goodness. In fact, i think thats my next kitbash, take a couple spares from a Contemptor kit.
I liked the approach GW took with "codices" for Horus Heresy. I wish they would consolidate to Marines, Chaos, Imperium, and Xenos. I was very disappointed to see a separate Dark Angels codex scheduled for 2024 as this means there won't be consolidation. Four large books to produce would allow all factions to get their rules within the first year. If all data sheets were downloadable and/or included on the instruction sheet that comes with the minis the codices would just be lore, paint guides and cool photos. I have enough armies I would get all of the major faction books anyway. I would rather buy more minis instead of so many books for each edition. Another advantage of releasing the books in the first year is giving all players at least two years of use from them before the next edition. I really feel sorry for Imperial Guard and World Eater players who bought the 9th edition codices. Themed campaigns would be a good way to GW to sell books in years two and three of the cycle.
Hey Ash, my name is Eric, I remember you from Toronto GW days as a kid, my mom would always drop me off at the stores and id be there from before open to close haha. Long story short, I stopped the hobby around end of 4th edition and started to get back into it after covid so mid 9th edition, stumbled onto your channel looking for 10th edition content. My mom sadly passed away last year and I decided to make sure I keep the hobby going because she supported me in it so much as a kid. Working on to complete a 2000pt space marine list for the fall, do recommend any good places around the GTA to get some good 40k matches in? Great channel man, cheers!
My whole Blood Angels army is 'first born' so I'm hoping they get some support. But I have your same fear, if not 10th I still fear I can hear a ticking clock on my older Marines models.
So I see the cards for the stuff in the box is out. The nid stuff is more "new" so those cards are super bare bones while the space marine ones show more options. Combat patrol seems interesting but as I have a bunch of unused stuff already buying another 160 dollar us box to play the intro games is not my idea of great investment.
10th is looking to be more like 3rd-4th editions, especially since they're bringing back that campaign they did back in 3rd for 10th, even tho it's only if you buy the new box...
Was interested in 40k for the first time in 20 years. But it honestly sounds like 40k is way more complicated than 2nd and 3rd edition. I would effectively be a new player and after playing battletech classic and alpha and loads of modern boardgames it just feels way too bitty for me to be patient enough to learn. Like theres so many units an dso many little things to remember its just definitely not for me anymore.
It’s pretty big when you consider there’s no morale mechanic apart from not being able to score objectives or be targeted by Strats (some wounds if you fall back, but that’s it). Psychic phase just being leadership abilities and guns also is a big change. Characters needing to have a bodyguard listed by name in order to join units, the totally open list building and AoS statlines are all a pretty big walk from how the game has been played 8th and 9th.
@Guerrilla Miniature Games Saw already someone cover the morale issue and how it can fail or not really come into play. Psychic phase changed into abilities I don't see as a huge change. That's more absorption and making things similar. So AoS stat lines, that's copying rather than new and innovative. Which isn't bad if it needs it, nothing that screams new edition. But if people want to drink the Kool-Aid it'll sell. And see if this is the third edition in a row to be "meh'd".
That’s really all there is, outside Combat Patrol missions and the Crusade section based on the box contents. All the rules for the game are just what you can download. Unless you want the background inserts and pictures, which are free on the Warhammer 40,000 website already under the army descriptions.
I lived through the 8th edition Index-to-Codex transition. I fear the 'balance' of the game will go out the window as soon as the first Codex drops. I have little faith that GW will be able to maintain balance in their system.
@@keikan300 im over it, some armies only get months to play with a codex while space marines get years, its dumb and kinda lame, any other company would not get away with it.
After returning to the hobby with the Indomitus set, I gotta say these boxes are not good for new hobbyists. There is way too much stuff you're never gonna realistically use (one whole army) and you don't really have a clear direction with your hobby, you end up being a bit all over the place. Honestly the Elite/Command editions are decent if you're getting in with a friend. But I do think that the best starts for new hobbyists are just the regular Combat Patrols or single unit boxes where you can slow grow naturally and not be overwhelmed and feel pressured.
I wish you did not bring up how they just took the AOS sheets and added stuff to them, I don;t have happy thoughts when I hear AOS. (TBH current version of the game is probably fine, but i lost what i loved when it came out.) On the topic of precons the card company's are kinda not doing them very well anymore magic only has the commander ones now(which honestly are fine so long as they are not massively expensive.) and Pokemon(english) just doesn't have new player starters at all, the japanese version does but the English takes all the cards from them and puts them in the first set of a series. All the Japanese card game companys who handle their own English products more directly are still doing pretty well though.
Having looked at the sprues, I'm *so* happy that three of the units that I don't care about on the Space Marine side (Apothecary, Sternguard, another Lieutenant) are all on the same sprue, which based on past experience means they won't be in the starter boxes. I'll happily eat the cost of a unit of flamers if that means I can save some money on the new Terminators.
Are we going to get a Shatterpoint review? I could care less about the 40k marketing hype train. Review the game again in a year and see how much has really changed. (I would like to see more videos like that for new games and editions). That said, the only reasons I am going to watch this is because of the format - more of this please - good to get different perspectives and especially of 40+ year old gamers!
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Big oversight by AMG! :) Way too many content creators I do not care about got the box. (Fair enough though they included painters and people from their other systems like X-Wing and Armada). Super excited for the game and I think it is a really interesting game in terms of game design and just having a skirmish game that is not all about killing / fighting. (You can actually see in a lot of the earlier content it being playing it in the traditional manner and people finding it hard to not just focus on initial objectives and killing vs overall how am I going to position to win over three struggles - an element of real life robust strategy vs strategic planning that later is often more associated with the traditional approach).
@@Nick_Whiskey I watched the video and complimented him on the format. Whilst I remain skeptical of 10th, I would not have clicked if there was not a little part that wanted to be convinced. I started with 8th edition and had three 2000pt plus armies (Harlies, Dark Eldar / Drukhari and Dark Angels)... Any way surely I am entitled to an opinion and like Ash I am basically over it, but at least prepared to check it out (you know like clicking and watching an hour plus review of 10th...)
I don't know. I bought two Indomitus boxsets, it was over the top awesome. This one just isn't doing anything for me. Tyranids just look boring, not bug enough for me. The flamer guys are boring as all hell. The dreadnought is ugly. Even sternguard aren't as cool as they could be. Just not as exciting for me I guess.
And people wonder why GW items are so expensive and sold out before the stores even offer pre-orders. It’s because we gotta pay for the free boxes given to these channels. If the channels had to pay and wait like the rest of us the prices wouldn’t be so high.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
Big fan of man reads book(or occasionally pdf) but I’ve got to say that men talk about big box is a game changer!
Love the format! Always great to see a group tackle a big project like this and what better time than with a new edition!
Great approach to a rulebook review! Thanks to everyone involved.
This is great fun. I like how, with the changing lighting over the video, Ash ends up looking like a character from John Carpenter's "The Thing".
Box quality is so important.
Love this original review format. There is way more added value to it than the usual "new stuff, amazing, look there is a monkey !"
Best discussion on the new addition I have heard.
Love this format, and super relatable
One of the best channels :)
I love this format!
A fantastically unconventional review! Really looking forward to seeing your coverage of 10th!
People did the whole box painted and battle report day one so ash once again becomes the one breaking from the norm looking forward to finishing!
Right; turning an unboxing in to a "Tale of Four Gamers" is a great idea. 👍
This is such a great conversation.
Hey I know most of those guys!
Jay, I still use the Steel legion you gave me all those years ago!
I am super looking forwards to this edition, feels like 8th which was a needed refresh after abysmal 7th.
I'm definitely an old man shouts at cloud type. So much so that if a Dread doesn't break your toe if you drop it, then it requires a reminiscence of a more hallowed time followed by "and when I was your age we only had 4 TV channels!" (old time fables from the UK).
I havent finished this yet cuz of work. Close to an hour in. Really enjoying it so far. Please do more and keep up the great work! 👏🏾👏🏾🤩👏🏾👏🏾
So Ash is saying he is the 40k equivalent of the arms-crossed guy at the back of the show. Welcome to the club. Let the kids spike their hair, we have better beer, but we DO have to be at work in the morning.
If ash is the arms crossed guy I aspire to be the middle aged guy with the back pack standing to the side of the PA looking a little anxious because he has 3 more shows he hopes to make it to.
I found this channel from your cursed city videos, now I’m staying for the others!
That's funny you talking about the call of duty stuff. I recently wrote an article for a french fanzine called "how miniature wargames became a video game".
Playing a miniature game (and people in France use the English word "game", which is an habit coming from video games) has never feel so like playing StarCraft game.
"Can we make it work this time"...I can feel the heartbreak and disappointment already
Ash give us the dope!
Great job everyone
I really enjoy this review. It was entertaining and a great mix of guests.
This "like" was for the Guyver comment.
Wish you'd do some Malifaux videos again they were always great!
Anyone remember when AoS 2.5 ruleset dropped and they changed the pile-in rule from "to closest MODEL" to "to closest UNIT"? So why the hell did they decide to implement AoS' fight phase and not bring over the 2.5 rule-change?
As someone who played three games of 9th, got tabled all three times by Turn 2 and never touched it again, I'm hoping that Combat Patrol takes off. The game genuinely needs a casual format, because the worst part about 40K is that you either play competitive or not at all. The AOS-ification of 40K makes me optimistic, but GW has a high bar to clear before I give the game another chance.
Nice! Hey Jay! Hi Dr Nik! Hi Chris! Great stuff. 40i+ gamers, me too! Lol. ❤️
Probably my favorite video you've released in years
Surprised at how heavily they're invested in the Combat Patrol mode. Bodes well for me as that's the mode that interests me.
I suspect that they will bring out more Combat Patrols in future, cycling out older ones for newer ones to keep some spice and variety in that game mode and having it align with their newer model releases and hook people onto the purchase treadmill.
Nice models
Unsure about some of the rules changes
Waiting on indices and then codices to be sure of the direction
As for story direction, 9th started against the Necrons (with Marines and Sisters double teaming said Necrons) ... That lasted all of 5 minutes before it was back to focusing on the war with Chaos (and no more multiple detachments, from within your own faction or not --- everybody from the same faction+subfaction barring very few exceptions)
nice debat, finaly combat patrol box are like on player starter box from warmachine, horde and a bunch of others games (almost all others) minus the rules !
Not make that box a "true starter" seems... damn. Thanks for this review.
Fun review format. Thanks guys. When the disappointment sets in again just play some Battletech. 😊
At least there are objective markers! I almost bought the objective set and was warned off by someone telling me the base sizes didn't actually match.
Nice to see a different approach to a review vs just a page-turner. (Men Who Discuss Books).
Great format! Personally don't really care about 40K and still very skeptical if after the initial period the game will stay true to the marketed vision for 10th...So many better streamlined systems out there and better overall designs - that are always just overshadowed by anything 40K - even if they are 10 years behind from a game design perspective. But great chat!
Still that is the world we live in and as a long time AoS player (no longer care for anything GW) GW does many things right and you can understand the attraction, popularity and loyalty...Kinda like music, while I have very specific rock and metal tastes, I kinda get why pop, Ed Sheeran, Nickelback and Coldplay is popular and that there is a very deliberate skill, talent and legit musicianship behind it all...okay maybe not Nickelback :) (Of course the 40k lore and universe is a very very big selling point as well - but again I find the whole "grim dark" stuff laughably teenagey and dumb...so I just its presence and being able to "play with you toys" almost anywhere...)
The Council of Bad Knees.
The dreadnought was a missed opportunity to give 40k some more neo-volkite goodness. In fact, i think thats my next kitbash, take a couple spares from a Contemptor kit.
I liked the approach GW took with "codices" for Horus Heresy. I wish they would consolidate to Marines, Chaos, Imperium, and Xenos. I was very disappointed to see a separate Dark Angels codex scheduled for 2024 as this means there won't be consolidation. Four large books to produce would allow all factions to get their rules within the first year. If all data sheets were downloadable and/or included on the instruction sheet that comes with the minis the codices would just be lore, paint guides and cool photos. I have enough armies I would get all of the major faction books anyway. I would rather buy more minis instead of so many books for each edition. Another advantage of releasing the books in the first year is giving all players at least two years of use from them before the next edition. I really feel sorry for Imperial Guard and World Eater players who bought the 9th edition codices. Themed campaigns would be a good way to GW to sell books in years two and three of the cycle.
Hey Ash, my name is Eric, I remember you from Toronto GW days as a kid, my mom would always drop me off at the stores and id be there from before open to close haha. Long story short, I stopped the hobby around end of 4th edition and started to get back into it after covid so mid 9th edition, stumbled onto your channel looking for 10th edition content. My mom sadly passed away last year and I decided to make sure I keep the hobby going because she supported me in it so much as a kid. Working on to complete a 2000pt space marine list for the fall, do recommend any good places around the GTA to get some good 40k matches in? Great channel man, cheers!
Sword and Board on Bloor St hosts Hogtown 40K and I’m sure will let you get a game in Eric! All the best!
Still worried about all the tactical marine squads I have.
My whole Blood Angels army is 'first born' so I'm hoping they get some support. But I have your same fear, if not 10th I still fear I can hear a ticking clock on my older Marines models.
So I see the cards for the stuff in the box is out. The nid stuff is more "new" so those cards are super bare bones while the space marine ones show more options. Combat patrol seems interesting but as I have a bunch of unused stuff already buying another 160 dollar us box to play the intro games is not my idea of great investment.
Loved this, looking forward to your To4G videos.
P.S.: Audio quality could be a bit better. ;)
Dreadnought looks like battletech
That's what I first thought too!!
10th is looking to be more like 3rd-4th editions, especially since they're bringing back that campaign they did back in 3rd for 10th, even tho it's only if you buy the new box...
Was interested in 40k for the first time in 20 years. But it honestly sounds like 40k is way more complicated than 2nd and 3rd edition. I would effectively be a new player and after playing battletech classic and alpha and loads of modern boardgames it just feels way too bitty for me to be patient enough to learn. Like theres so many units an dso many little things to remember its just definitely not for me anymore.
50:53
Dude! Not cool sneaking this in at midnight!😉
This makes me feel like D&D 3.0 to 3.5 and not a new edition. Polishing, fixes here and there, but not a huge shift.
It’s pretty big when you consider there’s no morale mechanic apart from not being able to score objectives or be targeted by Strats (some wounds if you fall back, but that’s it). Psychic phase just being leadership abilities and guns also is a big change. Characters needing to have a bodyguard listed by name in order to join units, the totally open list building and AoS statlines are all a pretty big walk from how the game has been played 8th and 9th.
@Guerrilla Miniature Games Saw already someone cover the morale issue and how it can fail or not really come into play. Psychic phase changed into abilities I don't see as a huge change. That's more absorption and making things similar. So AoS stat lines, that's copying rather than new and innovative. Which isn't bad if it needs it, nothing that screams new edition. But if people want to drink the Kool-Aid it'll sell. And see if this is the third edition in a row to be "meh'd".
That 'stache is getting serious.
It’s the beard getting whiter, but somehow the stache is locked in time
I don't believe the whole Leviathan book is available for download, just the Core Rules 60 pages.
That’s really all there is, outside Combat Patrol missions and the Crusade section based on the box contents. All the rules for the game are just what you can download. Unless you want the background inserts and pictures, which are free on the Warhammer 40,000 website already under the army descriptions.
hope there still available when i get paid in 2 weeks
I assume that the starter version of this box will be the two combat patrols that are in this box no?
We don’t have any idea yet, but we’ll see!
Miss the days of 2 or 3 soft cover books in a box. Rules book, battles book, maybe a bestiary
Did you get Shatterpoint? Waiting for that On the Paint Table :)
Nope haven’t been able to get my hands on a copy :)
I always wondered Ash how do you do your hair? What products etc?
I wake up mostly like this lol
I am very used to White Scars being forgotten by GW 😟
I wish Owen could have been here really would have added to everything you guys said plus he would have made it cooler
If i play 40k 10th it will be after my codex releases, until then i do not buy or play or talk about it.
I lived through the 8th edition Index-to-Codex transition. I fear the 'balance' of the game will go out the window as soon as the first Codex drops.
I have little faith that GW will be able to maintain balance in their system.
@@keikan300 im over it, some armies only get months to play with a codex while space marines get years, its dumb and kinda lame, any other company would not get away with it.
After returning to the hobby with the Indomitus set, I gotta say these boxes are not good for new hobbyists. There is way too much stuff you're never gonna realistically use (one whole army) and you don't really have a clear direction with your hobby, you end up being a bit all over the place. Honestly the Elite/Command editions are decent if you're getting in with a friend. But I do think that the best starts for new hobbyists are just the regular Combat Patrols or single unit boxes where you can slow grow naturally and not be overwhelmed and feel pressured.
I wish you did not bring up how they just took the AOS sheets and added stuff to them, I don;t have happy thoughts when I hear AOS. (TBH current version of the game is probably fine, but i lost what i loved when it came out.)
On the topic of precons the card company's are kinda not doing them very well anymore magic only has the commander ones now(which honestly are fine so long as they are not massively expensive.) and Pokemon(english) just doesn't have new player starters at all, the japanese version does but the English takes all the cards from them and puts them in the first set of a series.
All the Japanese card game companys who handle their own English products more directly are still doing pretty well though.
Almost two hours?!
Having looked at the sprues, I'm *so* happy that three of the units that I don't care about on the Space Marine side (Apothecary, Sternguard, another Lieutenant) are all on the same sprue, which based on past experience means they won't be in the starter boxes. I'll happily eat the cost of a unit of flamers if that means I can save some money on the new Terminators.
Are we going to get a Shatterpoint review? I could care less about the 40k marketing hype train. Review the game again in a year and see how much has really changed. (I would like to see more videos like that for new games and editions). That said, the only reasons I am going to watch this is because of the format - more of this please - good to get different perspectives and especially of 40+ year old gamers!
I’ll review it when I can get my hands on it. :)
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Big oversight by AMG! :)
Way too many content creators I do not care about got the box. (Fair enough though they included painters and people from their other systems like X-Wing and Armada).
Super excited for the game and I think it is a really interesting game in terms of game design and just having a skirmish game that is not all about killing / fighting. (You can actually see in a lot of the earlier content it being playing it in the traditional manner and people finding it hard to not just focus on initial objectives and killing vs overall how am I going to position to win over three struggles - an element of real life robust strategy vs strategic planning that later is often more associated with the traditional approach).
you really clicked on a 40k review video to complain about 40k huh
@@Nick_Whiskey I watched the video and complimented him on the format. Whilst I remain skeptical of 10th, I would not have clicked if there was not a little part that wanted to be convinced. I started with 8th edition and had three 2000pt plus armies (Harlies, Dark Eldar / Drukhari and Dark Angels)...
Any way surely I am entitled to an opinion and like Ash I am basically over it, but at least prepared to check it out (you know like clicking and watching an hour plus review of 10th...)
😂Yoko
So no rules for solo play? 😂
I don't know. I bought two Indomitus boxsets, it was over the top awesome. This one just isn't doing anything for me. Tyranids just look boring, not bug enough for me. The flamer guys are boring as all hell. The dreadnought is ugly. Even sternguard aren't as cool as they could be. Just not as exciting for me I guess.
you don't like learning rules?? lol
Learning rules once per edition is one thing, learning the changing rules every two weeks because of a dataslate is something else. :)
And people wonder why GW items are so expensive and sold out before the stores even offer pre-orders. It’s because we gotta pay for the free boxes given to these channels. If the channels had to pay and wait like the rest of us the prices wouldn’t be so high.
Nik talks to much, it's neat to be excited about something, but it's a little too much here where he overtalks other people.