I'm an Ex-Mormon living in Utah, so I absolutely loved this movie. The only unrealistic thing was the very first scene, because Mormon missionaries would NEVER openly discuss sex and pornography. Even openly talking about temple garments (the Mormon magic underwear) probably wouldn't happen. PS something pretty funny, I saw this movie in Ogden, Utah in a theater that's right next to a Mormon temple. When Sister Paxton said she's from Ogden, people in the theater literally cheered.
Ummm I served a mission and we discussed garments literally all the time and made jokes about them. Also, missionaries do talk about sex. It’s plausible that would happen. Now it probably wouldn’t happen on a bench out in public (because they are conditioned to be shameful of such topics) but missionaries in private totally talk about stuff like that
@josephjanson4753 if you did, you absolutely weren't supposed to. Also, I literally grew up in the church, and I never even heard about garments until I was in college. People simply didn't talk about them. Also, one of the missionaries in the movie openly talks about WATCHING PORN. Are you telling me that would be considered ok???
@@LockeDemosthenes2I’m not saying it’s ok with mission rules. Mission rules are BS though but that’s besides the point. My point is missionaries do talk about these things, regardless of whether they are “allowed” to. Missionaries do all kinds of crap they aren’t supposed to. And much of that is healthy. The mission and the rules are largely unhealthy. Talking about sex is healthy
Yet our apologetics and debates with others exist. The problem is most critics don't have a basic understanding of our theology and then strawman us. I've never avoided a sincere question, but I have no interest in the pervasive Anti-Mormon bigotry society freely accepts.
@@IJN-33 Anyone who spends an hour researching Joseph Smith will clearly see that he made up everything he claimed. I got super interested in the subject and spent a couple of years researching him. Go read his family's diary entries about him, _ESPECIALLY_ his mother's. Also, disagreeing with someone isn't bigotry.
@@melancholymoshpit Of course not, disagreement is wonderful and enlightening. My argument was that it is often done in bigoted and logically fallacious ways. I have read it Found it a little dull honestly. I have spent many years studying his life, teachings and controversies. The one thing I would definitely not say is that Joseph Smith is a simple fraud or easily dismissed. You can make a case he was a fraud, but he's a compelling one if he is. I think the bigger concern I have is too many people only spend an hour studying it.
@@melancholymoshpit My last comment got deleted I think. I agree disagreement isn't bigoted of itself, it just happens to often be for us. I have studied his life etc. for many years including his mother's history. Mormonism being obviously fraudulent is the one thing I would definitely not say. Studying for only one hour is part of the problem for many criticisms.
For me, the ending of the movie has three possible interpretations. The first is that Sister Paxton indeed died, and the entire ending, including Sister Barnes regaining enough strength to kill Mr. Reed and allow Paxton to escape, was merely an illusion in her dying moments. The second possibility is that everything that transpired did happen, and Paxton managed to find her way out, even encountering the butterfly. The third possibility is that the butterfly’s presence on her finger and subsequent disappearance could symbolize Barnes’s spirit or soul comforting her or serving as a confirmation of her faith that religion isn’t solely about control. The movie’s open ending allows for multiple interpretations and discussions, which is fitting for something that gives us without questions. We shouldn’t simply accept things at face value; there’s always a deeper meaning behind them.
What would a part 2 explore…I can’t see them making a part 2 without tampering with the essence of this one. This movie had a message and the message was sent in a thought provoking entertaining way. A sequel would not get the same pay off for saying the same message, which was this movies strong suit
“Someone who believes in religion but still has their doubts is a person who can’t be completely fooled or fully controlled, verses someone who is a blind follower.” Great quote and I think this rings true!
The fact that you pointed out that this movie plays no psychological tricks on the viewer is all the spot analysis I needed. It shows how deep you watched it.
As it is snowing when she gets out of the house and the butterfly is shown to actually not be there on her hand, gives me great regret that she did die and that she was never saved by her friend, but did find great solace in her belief.
I didn't get that impression at all, though I didn't see the point of the butterfly. Don't forget earlier in the film they said something about things changing when a butterfly beats its wings in China, etc. To me, now that I think of it, means that the butterfly DID beat its wings, and that her friend briefly resurrected (since the film was so big on resurrection) to save her, due to her prayer. You might say the butterfly being there was to confirm that her friend rising briefly was indeed a miracle. In any event, I'm very sure the butterfly has a distinct link in some way to that earlier mention of the butterfly theory. I recall telling my brother as the other girl was killed, that even if she's resurrected at some point, it won't last very long because she's so cut up (talk about a super accurate prediction, if indeed the film was conveying, she did resurrect).
Great review. I watched it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. My take on the ending was that her pray was answered by her friend finding the strength to end him. However, as she said she would like to come back as a butterfly to let the person know it was her, that she had in fact died.
The key point this review seems to be missing is the symbolism behind the woman coming back to life and killing the man. Earlier in the film, the man tries to deceive her by saying he believes life is just a simulation, implying that once she’s dead, she won’t return because, as part of this “simulation,” she’s merely a disposable figure. He’s using this argument as a manipulation tactic, not because he genuinely believes it. However, when she does come back to life, it’s a symbolic moment. Her return challenges his claim, confronting him with the unsettling possibility that he could be wrong about the nature of existence. Her revival suggests that, even if he dismisses the idea of an afterlife or the possibility of existing within a simulation, there’s no certainty in his assumptions. The film is, in essence, “calling him out” and quite literally “smacking him in the head by showing that he doesn’t hold the ultimate truth. So, her resurrection isn’t just a plot twist, -it’s a reminder that we don’t truly know what lies beyond life or the nature of reality itself. He could have been wrong.
Religion is false. God is real. Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
There are multiple ways to interpret the butterfly. The sister may have been hallucinating due to blood loss. Or the other sister only shows up momentarily as a butterfly to let her know she's on the other side and then disappears. Or it's just a butterfly from the house and it flew away.
What's missed here is that an early conversation among the three touched on the so-called near death experience (NDE), and the question of whether an NDE is merely a hallucination the brain manufactures as death becomes imminent. My interpretation of the movie's end is that Sister Paxton did die from the stab wound Mr. Reed inflicted and had an NDE: where Sister Barnes came back to life to finish off Mr. Reed before he could finish off Sister P and that her subsequent escape from the house was part of the NDE, symbolized by the hallucinatory butterfly briefly seen on her finger. Her declaration of faith toward the end, as she prays no matter if it helps or not, allows her to die free from the house and in the clear light of day in a beautiful, snowy (symbol of purity) landscape. Religion (praying) may have given her some peace, but science (NDE phenomena) may have been what truly gave her peace.
Hugh Grant had me in awe the entire movie!!! I thoroughly enjoyed this film. The ending was maybe a little too in the nose or idk like “in the end faith prevails” vibe but i guess it could also be perfect considering how sister P was clever and managed to deconstruct her faith and still was able to push through because of it? Idk if any of this makes sense lol but overall i really liked this movie
Ok before I say anything this is actually one of the better reviews I’ve seen, so props to you. It’s generally not a good idea to blindly follow anything just for the sake of following that thing. Now I’m not a Mormon, so I won’t speak on the Book of Mormon, but I *am* a Christian. So I can speak on the validity of the Bible. Like I said before, it’s important to not just blindly follow anything, and have critical thinking. But I don’t think this movie has the answer to if religion is real or fake with just the elements it tries to touch on. Many people have been drawn to Christ as well as wandered away, using critical thinking. So it’s really a matter of perspectives. Asking questions is important, but I believe if you ask enough questions it will always lead the inquirer back to God. This has happened with me. In essence, if critical thinking, (in this terminology) is used to draw people away from religion, then even more so, when willing to question themselves as well as their topic, critical thinking draws you back to God in full circle. Because all He wants to do is welcome you back to Him. Christianity is more so a relationship with Christ than a religion, but it holds up when even pinned against other religions. When we really start to question each other’s stances. Because the main difference is, we rest upon Christ’s finish work on the cross, and not hoping to be good enough. Because we never will be and that’s the point of grace. Following God doesn’t take away critical thinking, it actually enhances it if we if we dare ask that question. Anyway, just some deep thought. Sorry for the rant. I actually love A24 and horror so the vibe of this movie actually hits different. Actors did a fantastic job too.
I like how the theme of iteration continues through the end credits. What I thought was "Fade Into You" by Mazzy Star was a cover of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
Religion is false. God is real. Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4v Yeah, we used to discuss the idea of a God watching us as if we are entertainment (in Philosophy at school). But I do not believe in God or Satan, I believe in religion or Gods used as a manner of CONTROL. That's why I find this movie so alluring.
@@ChrisM-yq2pq True I got the idea from religion, but based from my observation, religion mainly uses God as an excuse to get money and control. If we were to use common sense and just human logic, which the old people use to do, people worship nature, the sun, because they know that someone created these things to benefit human kind, no need of religion to fill religious leaders pockets while the rest starve. Just worship the God because he can be found throughout creation.
@Justmyopinionsir-q4v creation? Really? People believe in creation because they cannot comprehend the idea of natural process and evolution. There is no god who creates nor who rewards, judges or punishes. There is no need to believe in one. If you still think someone created all these, yes go ahead but at least for the practical purpose of anything there is no such need.
@@spliffzombonie lol sure buddy whatever helps u sleep at night….just remember one day you’ll die ….I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.
@@hasnainrana6416 I used to think that way buddy. You're free to believe whatever you want as long as it gives you peace. Just don't shove your belief on someone else. And one more thing, your whole belief, the last thing you said, is just based on fear. You want to believe because you fear of finding out an actual god when you die. I don't like that. I like to live, love people, and preserve my morals regardless if there is a reward at the end. Regardless if there is a god or not. Regardless if I get to live forever or not. Of course, this is not for everyone.
@@spliffzombonie i agree with wht u said in the beginning. I disagree with what u said abt my whole belief being based on fear, in reality my belief is based on not just fear but HOPE. Also fear isn't a bad thing, fear drives pple out of their comfort zone, also fear can push pple away from doing bad things and can drive pple to do good things. About what u said at the end, that's great but IMO it's better to preserve ur morals and love people with a belief in God than without, cuz belief in God adds a layer of depth to everything. but hey believe what u wanna believe, I'm not trynna debate u... much love, stay healthy!
Man I completely interpreted the ending differently. I think that Mr. Reed actually stabs her in the neck when she’s praying and everything after was a hallucination. I thought this because earlier in the movie when they were talking about near death experiences it’s said that one will experience (see/feel) miracles as they pass on. So when she saw sister Barnes miraculously get up just in time , or that she suddenly has the strength to get up and climb out, or all of a sudden it’s completely beautiful outside when moments before it was a massive storm I think that was all in her mind and finally the miracle butterfly that disappeared in the next shot gave her the peace and in the very last shot you see her face has almost a realization
This was a great break down. I agree with the theme of belief and disbelief down to the last scene. Remember butterfly also symbolizes transformation which is a good call back to Sister Paxston.
Ok, maybe I missed something, but at the end of the movie, the girl is in the field and sees the butterfly. The filmmaker shows two perspectives. In only one perspective is the butterfly shown, from the girl's perspective. I took that as the filmmaker saying belief is relative. The girl wanted to continue believing, and on the verge of death, hallucinates (for lack of a better word) the butterfly.
The message from this film is don't go to strangers'homes imposing your beliefs on others. It's not safe for women to go into strangers homes. You don't know that person anything can happen. This is the world we live in, sad yet true.✌🏽❤️
In watching this (amazing and I totally recommend it if you can handle a dialogue heavy first act) movie, I took the thesis to be that control isn’t the true religion, EMPATHY is. Sister P explains that the point of prayer isn’t to effect real change - even the Bible has a parable about not expecting prayer to save you when you haven’t taken any action. The true point of prayer is knowing someone cares enough to pray for you. That’s the miracle. And when Sister B wakes up, that’s the true miracle in the movie - just as Hugh Grant said she’d do. The point is that god or the universe or whatever is showing Hugh’s character that he doesn’t truly have control. He believes control is the point of religion. But those who pay attention can see that the true through line through every iteration of the religion is empathy and love and caring. Even after trying to kill him Sister P shows empathy to HG’s character and prays for him. She has done everything she can, taken every action she can to fight his evil and at the end all she can do is pray. And her prayer is answered with a Lazarinthian miracle. I’m ex LDS and not very religious but I thought this movie was AMAZING. I may not have firm religious beliefs, but I love the respect and care they showed at the end - proving that for all Hugh’s debating and trying to prove he’s a man dreaming he’s a butterfly…in the end we are all just butterflies. The movie firmly commits to the idea of an afterlife in Sister B’s reincarnation as a butterfly. Honestly I want to watch this movie again because there were so many details - even down to how each sister carried her bike up the stairs to foreshadow who would survive. It’s truly a well-made super tight script where everything is foreshadowed and everything comes back around. Lol sorry for writing a book on here. You should do another video analysis on this one it was fascinating and I’m glad I found your channel
Reed ripped off the sister's tendons when he was reaching for the 'chip'. It is impossible to hold and hit someone without tendons, she was very dead. It's either a miracle or a hallucination.
True but why do we need to have faith? We don't operate on that system of doing things anywhere else in life. Everywhere else we demand evidence and proof of something.
@@Dr.Beetlejuice110 But you can't get proof without death, or truly knowing what lies after it. So that separates faith from other things that can be rationalized in those terms.
@Dr.Beetlejuice110 according to the Bible "faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". So actually it is not blind, it is based on "assured expectation" and "evidence". We have this sort of faith all the time in everyday things. For example, when you drive you have faith when you step on the brake the car will stop. Do you 100% know this will actually happen? No you don't. In fact there is a chance they fail and it might not. But you have the assured expectation it will because every other time the brakes worked so based on that evidence and assurance you stake your life on the fact next time they will also work. But you can't technically know. That's what faith is.
I thought it was interesting at the very end where it flashed suddenly and the butterfly was gone, maybe supporting the "simulation hypothesis" talked about earlier in the film. Another interesting fact is in the credits is a cover song of Bob Dylan's knocking on heavens door, which I think is a nod to the reiterations of the board games and music also mentioned earlier in the movie
In response to this movie the LDS church put out a formal statement that they're displeased with it, saying that it suggests they promote violence against women
@@joelsnyder5866 I mean a woman is an adult lol but regardless, the specification doesn’t actually change literally anything. Either way he still lied to get them to come inside.
This movie is well wrotten in general, but a big reason is because it isn't particularly interested in telling you what you have to think about its themes and ideas, regardless of the opinions of those making it. Not only is that just good writing practics in gsneral (which more storytellers today meed to follow than currently do), it shows that they're self aware enough to apply their own ideas to themselves. The story is clearly questions blind faith, but it also questions the antagonist as well. For or against faith in any religious system or spiritual practice isn't the point. The point is that whether you are religious/spiritual or not, regardless of what you do or don't believe, you should always be guided by critical thinking (Sister Barnes and by the end, Sister Paxton) and both reject blind faith (Sister Paxton at the beginning) and guard against motivated reasoning to justify your beliefs and actions (Mr. Reed).
The butterfly wasn’t really there though she was only seeing it in her mind. She initially sees it but then the next shot she’s still looking at her finger and nothing is there. I need to rewatch!
I think Barnes coming back was real, but the butterfly was a hallucination (whether she was dying or it was just a near-death experience I don't know). Also, I think there was one more theme you missed: belief vs. action. We were led to believe that Barnes was the one who thought critically, and Paxton was the blind follower, based on how they acted. But, that wasn't entirely true. Barnes thought critically, but for better or worse she still believed. Paxton knowing about that study at the end meant she'd already done her research too, and I think the implication was she already thought her religion was a crock. She just didn't care. She wanted the community.
@@SerpenThrope me personally I thought it was just showing that it’s nicer for her to believe that her friend is in a better place and she imagines that whole situation but in reality it’s not there. But it’s real to her
Can anyone tell me why after stabbing Mr. reed and making her way to his office, she goes back into the dungeon? Take the time to barricade the office door, but goes down there where she knows there are tunnels.
I think you missed one small aspect about Paxton at the end. When she finds freedom, she sees the world as it is (like a pinhole image) for a brief moment, and then aligns herself to that perspective. On top of the dialogue, the interplay of the light and the dark and angles is a feast for the eyes
The opening also establishes that religion is another form of marketing, and like marketing, it doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. It's that its main concern is selling something and not being right (morally or factually).
That was very well thought out and executed Mr. Nocturnal. When I was at University, I made a study of comparative religion, and I found that all of the world religions had a few fallacies which sunk their own ship...except for one. If you are going to wrap your life around a formal religion, you do need to have reasonable grounds for adhering to the existence of things, that cannot be scientifically demonstrated (i.e., the existence of Hell, of angels, etc.), but accepted on the authority of the 'revealer'. In other words, can you verify the integrity of the 'revealer'? If so, then you are good to go.
The idea that she died in the basement does make the most sense in the context of belief and not following the evidence. If you believe that her friend survived what was done to her, you are making a massive jump considering how grounded and world is. It plays with this concept with the prophet and sets it up with the prophets speech.
I disagree because Sister Paxton wasn't praying for release from the basement her prayer was of thanks, and praying for others up to the very end. Right before Mr. Reed goes to stab her in the neck. She wasn't praying for help to get out. So that wouldn't really make sense about how if Sister Barnes survived long enough to kill Mr. Reed. They also very clearly used foreshadowing regarding the piece of wood with nails.
The implant being removed and doing what he did to the vein or artery would kill you. Though that also could have slowed her death down by a little bit too, but I am guessing from the throat cut, no way she lived more than maybe 15 minutes.
I’m confused as to why Sister Paxton was so openly discussing reincarnation and then having that faith supposedly confirmed when it goes against her actual religion that she is a part of. As far as I know Mormons reject the idea of reincarnation.
@@AdoreYouInAshXI the right..the Christian right who are the ones that control the globe. For proof...who voted trump in for a second term...Christian protestant Catholic voters did. Now do groups like builderburg etc subscribe to Christian religion....I think so but I have no proof. What do hypothesize is that they use the Christian religion whenever they need to in order to divide and conquer the population in order to bring about their ends which is the business is the most important thing. The people is here for the business not the other way around. So for greed and power. Which is not very Christian because Christianity is fake. It's used to divide us for their ends.
I haven't seen Heretic yet. But I intend to soon. I kinda hate the ad for it, but I think it's brilliant. I hate it because it sounds like a Hallmark type deal or an ad for a church. That's precisely why it's brilliant. Then that joke thing comes in so slick and oops, this guy is bad news and that's all I know and want to know until I see it. Oh I did watch 2 minutes of the review and sensed spoilers, will watch the rest after I've seen the movie.
One thing that bugs me after she escapes is that her phone still shows no service. There has to be a reason for showing this. Also, if you go with the theory that she died in the basement, how would she know about the model of the house? She never saw it until she escaped the basement after being stabbed. The butterfly on her finger could have been a hallucination while dying.
Consider that the ending was meant to be intentionally ambiguous, because as with the general motif from the film, when left with unknowns it becomes easier to believe whatever makes you feel comfortable. Create your own explanation as to what the ending really meant. For me, I think the fact that the butterfly did not fly away but rather disappeared tells me that sister Paxton had been having a near-death hallucination and Barnes had never woken up; She had died, and so did both herself and Mr. Read. But, like I said, interpret it anyway you like. That's what I think makes the ending brilliant.
Everything in this film can be double checked to a large degree I know because this religion business is the first rabbit hole I went down, approx 47 years ago…the information is much easier to find now, but critical thinking is STILL required ! All information came from Somewhere, and I think we’re past believing that Anything foundational is any more than Baloney
The "miracle" ending was purposely ambigious. The logical interpretation is Barnes didn't die initially, she passed out and was the brink of dying, and had one last gasp effort to stop Reed. And the butterfly at the end was just a butterfly (they saw it flying around earlier looking for a way out, when she broke out it escaped with her). It's perfectly reasonable explanation without adding a supernatural/magical explanation. The religious/spritual interpretation is Barnes died & was resurrected and the butterfly was her spirit. This addresses a major issue with religious belief where people add meaning to things that don't need them and fool themselves. and it's the perfect compliment to the 1st half of the movie which is about how scammers can fool people into believing whatever they want, whether about religion or blueberry pies
I enjoyed the part where one of the girls complimented mr Reed on being more dedicated to studying the book of Mormon than they were. As an ex Christian I always found it fascinating that you will run into atheists who have more knowledge of the Bible and the history of it than most Christians. I guess it's not surprising though, those atheists also tend to be ex Christians who had unresolved questions who did enough research into their ideology to convince them that their religious beliefs weren't inerrant facts
I like to think that Paxton actually died when Reed crawled to her and then stabbed her in the neck and the ending of her being saved by Barnes was just a hallucination Paxton’s brain came up with in her final breaths
That A24 on the gate is not in the actual film unless you have the deleted scenes, which if you do, may we see what ended up on the cutting room floor? Some scenes jumped too quickly, I thought.
Uummm, i hate to be a stickler, but was there really enough time for her to be reincarnated into a caterpillar, build a cocoon, and then become a butterfly
Are you Certain? How fascinating how you are concluding she is not dead since "the movie had not miss *led you earlier". ...another end view interpreted. Brilliant.
@@angellombness4371 Am I certain that this is my interpretation?….Yes, I am. What I mean by the movie not misleading the viewer up until the final act, is that everything that Mr. Reed does is explained away by Paxton or Barnes, until her (Paxton’s) final moments, which is true.
@@NocturnalCritic loved review. Question was meant in good faith -- MadMorph Movie Club RUclips reviewer noted another movie theme appeared to be "certainty". All thought provoking, grateful for your consideration. (TY didn't expect reply 😅)
@@theworldofwoo8320 the ending is open to interpretation, just like religion. Did she die in the basement and the ending was her dying vision as the brain died, or did she make it and her butterfly was the friend visiting? It’s up to you.
To me it was absolutely unambiguous that Sister Paxton died and Barnes was already dead. And that even the comfort of the butterfly of Barnes is the dying hallucination that Paxton needs, and her faith allows. The friends I watched with thought she survived.
@@nicolapeters6949 I feel unambiguously she didn’t die. The argument for her dying doesn’t make sense because that explanation of what happens before you die was a lie that the man told the woman to say. Having it come true wouldn’t have any metaphorical meaning.
Humanity has conquered death. By inventing religion,wich reveals to us that we live even when we die. We all will survive death😮. The last scene I believe was a hallucination. She never escaped the house. The escape and butterfly scenes was the nervous system trying to help her stay calm. To slow down bleeding to give her a chance to survive. She bled out inside the house.
It's a good movie based on facts pertaining to religious mythology. Will it change the minds of the brainwashed? Nope. They will continue pretending because it makes them feel comfortable. 😳
I thought the point of the movie was that it doesn’t matter if religion is real or fake, it’s just something we use to get through life and all the hard stuff.
The whole setup of Hugh Grant's test is a recreation of the Greek Mystery Cult. But his whole motive and behaviour makes him more like the demiurge in Gnostic mythology. In other words, Heretic might be a self-reference of the movie, in that the story of the movie is a heretic view of Christianity (just like many people would see LDS Church).
They actually can’t enter unless there’s a woman present. Sister missionaries need a woman to be there to go in; boy missionaries need a man. (They can’t go into the home of just women)
@NocturnalCritic it doesn't add ambiguity as I said. It clearly shows it as there from her point of view and then absent from our audience pov. Clearly intended to show that she is only imagining it.
@@jasonmarleyrain6226 No, it’s shown for you to decide which interpretation you think is correct, which is what ambiguity means. How could you miss a clear continuous, and reiterated theme throughout the whole movie?
@@jasonmarleyrain6226 If you seriously believe that the ending was definitive, not only did you miss the intended purpose of the ending, you missed the intended purpose of the entire film.
Very nice movie…. I think she died, I was trying to make sense of the cellphone on the ground that fell when she jumped out of the window. Did he purposely put the bicycle key in her coat? it’s a movie that is really about control. Control is the number one religion?
It's less about Religion, more about the underlying flaws in human cognition that allow it to spread. Lots of examples were given, but none so controversial.
Easy question no. Idk how many times it's said he does NOT interfere. If he did believe wouldn't be in faith. It's real simple why no matter what you go through it's a blink compared to eternity. This movie really doesn't cause the questions it believes it does. Nicest way to say this if you need proof of your faith then you don't have it. Guys a lunatic simple as. Still decent movie.
I haven't watched the video because of the title. "heretic 'proves' 'religion' is 'fake?'..." People who don't care if their beliefs are true, will read your title and assume that their reading of it is correct, because it's vague enough to subscribe ones own beliefs. I suggest wording it differently, unless your video touches on the following criticisms. Unless you are an atheist who wrote the title to trigger reddit-atheists, it's safe to assume you are theist. 'Proves,' is something you won't hear sceptical humanists say unless they are using math. It's indicative that the person who is asking the question thinks that you could prove, or disprove God, or anything other than mathematical equations. I understand that 'proves' is being used synonymously with 'being convincing'. But, then that would illustrate a disregard for the value of truth. People who care about what's true, also care about how they communicate their beliefs. 'Religion' - which one? Which religion might Heretic prove to be fake? Christianity, Catholicism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, 7th day Adventists, Baptists, Pentacost, Episcopal, Buddhists, Islam, Jewdaism, Rastafaism, Shintoists, or any of the thousands of other religions, or just religion in general? Do you mean theistic religions that believe in God, or atheistic religions that don't believe in God? Do you mean 'spiritual', 'supernatural', or 'metaphysical'? There's so many things that word represents that if not used correctly is confusing. 'fake' - something that is presented to be real, but isn't. If religion is fake, then everyone who claims that it's true, actually knows it's fake. If you say theists are lying, then you're saying that they know God doesn't exist, but deny it. I can't read minds, so I always assume that people's beliefs are as they say, since there's no way to convincingly demonstrate sincere belief. Obama said he's Christian, yet his Christian behaviors have not convinced those who think he's Muslim. I become convinced by a claim with enough evidence, and without reasoned logic to make sense of that evidence, what counts as evidence and what doesn't, would become indistinguishable. If you're video is asking if God is fake, then I think only one thing matters. If you ask if God exists and I say, "I don't know", I'm saying that I do not know if God exists, AND I don't know if God doesn't exist, therefore, I don't believe in God. I believe things I know, and I don't believe things that I don't know. Was 9/11 a conspiracy? I don't know, so I don't believe it was. Was the official 9/11 story true? I don't know so I don't believe it was. We don't need to accept claims as true, if we don't feel knowledgeable enough, but it's very common for people to want to know, and accept the first thing they see. People who invest deeply in their beliefs form their identity around that belief. Losing that identity is painful if the believer were to lose it, and thus they actively reinforce it. No matter how false, or immoral.
Unless Hugh Grant has karate skills, I’m swinging Although the fact that there was TWO of them and the movie didn’t end in ten minutes is just on the brainwashing and mind control theme
Religion is false. God is real. Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
So, from just this review, Grant's character is literally using his behavior to show religion, particularly, the Abrahamic religions. The wood with the three nails could be seen as the cross, showing that belief/disbelief all lead to TBE same place, the candle showing the thinness of the trappings of religion, and so on. I must see it!
could be that the butterfly and the "resurrection" are both coincidences and you are imposing your belief on them... which would be an excellent wrap up to the movie. don't you think? after all, even TREMENDOUS coincidences can indeed just be coincidences.
Yeah, he definitely overheard them talking using the speaker device he used to talk to them from upstairs. He killed her because he knew she was plotting to kill him. She was proving herself to difficult to be controlled, so he literally cut his loses.
People uses movies as reference for anything to handle real life is dumb,period. Movies are loosely based on real life happenings, its made purely for entertainment. Anyways, this movie is good .
I think he failed ultimately because he didn't learn the lesson in what he is trying to teach. The truest religion isn't control, it's choice. How he didn't make the connection after its in his face the whole time. We choose what we believe.
I wish they would have gotten a mormon or exmormon to advise the script. I went through a horror movie of a mission. It sucks to see a movie of my experience/being as a costume for a film written by a man. I've been dragged into spooky homes. I've been threatened with death. I've been hit, poisoned, dragged by my hair on my mission. My companions were abusive. The random scary man lying about having a wife was the least of my problems. Not to mention the church is being sued over 93 cases of child sexual abuse in California. Many mormons live in horor movies. They could have just done the bare minimum amount of research. Sister misionaries are real people. Mormon women already live in a world where they are props for the men in their lives so it really sucks seeing a movie with the wild idea to make a movie about them being props for a random psycho man's games. If they framed it against how they are treated by mormon men that would be something. But sister paxton is going right back into a system that treats her like a prop in men's games. Did she really get out. Is she the hot reward for a male return misionary. Or is she ruined by being traumatized and thinking too much so now her family and community will ostracize her.
One of the directors is married to an ex-Mormon and the two actresses are also exmormons. As an Exmormon who served a mission as well, I thought the dialogue was pretty spot on.
@symphonyofdissent But what about the script writer. As former sister missionary it just seems off. Like in X we know a lot more about the characters where they come from what they are thinking and why they are all there. The women in this project. Pie lady, and even the sisters seem like props for a dominate mad man. It's cool if the actresses are exmos, but the script like a lot of movies has that feeling where the script writer and director are identifying with the titular male character speaking to the audience. Like he is their mouth piece. Pearl feels like her own character. Poor things had this too. Like Emma Stone's character was so writen by a man. Maybe it is just an A24 problem, but in Everything everywhere at once it felt more fleshed out. The tax auditor wasn't just a Prop Like pie lady. She was a whole character. Like why were those women in cages. How were they brainwashed director/screenwriter talking right at us?
Wow, ok. Didnt expect that. I am sorry that happened to you but this movie wasnt about the characters IMO. It wasnt about really anything other than faith. You arent supposed to leave this movie with answers beyond what you already feel. I think its about what you believe...thats all. They put it up on the screen and you can interpret it however you choose.
Giving your audience a blue berry pie, and further playing on the audience's skepticism, is genius marketing for driving their point even further
I'm an Ex-Mormon living in Utah, so I absolutely loved this movie. The only unrealistic thing was the very first scene, because Mormon missionaries would NEVER openly discuss sex and pornography. Even openly talking about temple garments (the Mormon magic underwear) probably wouldn't happen.
PS something pretty funny, I saw this movie in Ogden, Utah in a theater that's right next to a Mormon temple. When Sister Paxton said she's from Ogden, people in the theater literally cheered.
Ummm I served a mission and we discussed garments literally all the time and made jokes about them. Also, missionaries do talk about sex. It’s plausible that would happen. Now it probably wouldn’t happen on a bench out in public (because they are conditioned to be shameful of such topics) but missionaries in private totally talk about stuff like that
@josephjanson4753 if you did, you absolutely weren't supposed to. Also, I literally grew up in the church, and I never even heard about garments until I was in college. People simply didn't talk about them.
Also, one of the missionaries in the movie openly talks about WATCHING PORN. Are you telling me that would be considered ok???
@@LockeDemosthenes2I’m not saying it’s ok with mission rules. Mission rules are BS though but that’s besides the point. My point is missionaries do talk about these things, regardless of whether they are “allowed” to. Missionaries do all kinds of crap they aren’t supposed to. And much of that is healthy. The mission and the rules are largely unhealthy. Talking about sex is healthy
Bro my ex would be a missionary if she had to and she cheated on her husband with me lmao. Mormon women are wild on the dl, they’re my favorite
Most unrealistic part of the film is questioning Mormons and them sticking around to listen 😂😂😂
Yeah they get in the wind...when critical thinking comes about😂😂😂
Yet our apologetics and debates with others exist. The problem is most critics don't have a basic understanding of our theology and then strawman us. I've never avoided a sincere question, but I have no interest in the pervasive Anti-Mormon bigotry society freely accepts.
@@IJN-33 Anyone who spends an hour researching Joseph Smith will clearly see that he made up everything he claimed.
I got super interested in the subject and spent a couple of years researching him. Go read his family's diary entries about him, _ESPECIALLY_ his mother's.
Also, disagreeing with someone isn't bigotry.
@@melancholymoshpit Of course not, disagreement is wonderful and enlightening. My argument was that it is often done in bigoted and logically fallacious ways. I have read it
Found it a little dull honestly. I have spent many years studying his life, teachings and controversies. The one thing I would definitely not say is that Joseph Smith is a simple fraud or easily dismissed. You can make a case he was a fraud, but he's a compelling one if he is. I think the bigger concern I have is too many people only spend an hour studying it.
@@melancholymoshpit My last comment got deleted I think. I agree disagreement isn't bigoted of itself, it just happens to often be for us. I have studied his life etc. for many years including his mother's history. Mormonism being obviously fraudulent is the one thing I would definitely not say. Studying for only one hour is part of the problem for many criticisms.
Hugh Grant does creepy guy to perfection.
In other words, just being himself as usual?
I agree, and I’m worried because the last time an actor was this convincingly creepy, he turned out to be Kevin Spacey. 🕯️
@danielchapter70128 💯💯😁😁
@@GroinFaceGroin did you know he picked up a prostitute in Los Angeles back in the 90s?
@@nanskidds4214 so does Dennis Quaid in (intruder) good acting
For me, the ending of the movie has three possible interpretations. The first is that Sister Paxton indeed died, and the entire ending, including Sister Barnes regaining enough strength to kill Mr. Reed and allow Paxton to escape, was merely an illusion in her dying moments. The second possibility is that everything that transpired did happen, and Paxton managed to find her way out, even encountering the butterfly. The third possibility is that the butterfly’s presence on her finger and subsequent disappearance could symbolize Barnes’s spirit or soul comforting her or serving as a confirmation of her faith that religion isn’t solely about control. The movie’s open ending allows for multiple interpretations and discussions, which is fitting for something that gives us without questions. We shouldn’t simply accept things at face value; there’s always a deeper meaning behind them.
Yeah cuz hallucinations can happen during death
I've watched at least 5 Heretic reviews, and this is By Far the best. 👏
This means a lot, thank you!
Agreed
I hope that you do end up doing a part two to this one. Thank you for this review.
Thank you! If many others feel the same, I'll definitely make a part 2.
What would a part 2 explore…I can’t see them making a part 2 without tampering with the essence of this one.
This movie had a message and the message was sent in a thought provoking entertaining way.
A sequel would not get the same pay off for saying the same message, which was this movies strong suit
“Someone who believes in religion but still has their doubts is a person who can’t be completely fooled or fully controlled, verses someone who is a blind follower.”
Great quote and I think this rings true!
The fact that you pointed out that this movie plays no psychological tricks on the viewer is all the spot analysis I needed.
It shows how deep you watched it.
@@mattstorrs757 Well that’s not exactly what I said lol but thanks for watching.
As it is snowing when she gets out of the house and the butterfly is shown to actually not be there on her hand, gives me great regret that she did die and that she was never saved by her friend, but did find great solace in her belief.
I didn't get that impression at all, though I didn't see the point of the butterfly. Don't forget earlier in the film they said something about things changing when a butterfly beats its wings in China, etc. To me, now that I think of it, means that the butterfly DID beat its wings, and that her friend briefly resurrected (since the film was so big on resurrection) to save her, due to her prayer. You might say the butterfly being there was to confirm that her friend rising briefly was indeed a miracle. In any event, I'm very sure the butterfly has a distinct link in some way to that earlier mention of the butterfly theory. I recall telling my brother as the other girl was killed, that even if she's resurrected at some point, it won't last very long because she's so cut up (talk about a super accurate prediction, if indeed the film was conveying, she did resurrect).
Great review. I watched it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. My take on the ending was that her pray was answered by her friend finding the strength to end him. However, as she said she would like to come back as a butterfly to let the person know it was her, that she had in fact died.
The key point this review seems to be missing is the symbolism behind the woman coming back to life and killing the man.
Earlier in the film, the man tries to deceive her by saying he believes life is just a simulation, implying that once she’s dead, she won’t return because, as part of this “simulation,” she’s merely a disposable figure. He’s using this argument as a manipulation tactic, not because he genuinely believes it.
However, when she does come back to life, it’s a symbolic moment. Her return challenges his claim, confronting him with the unsettling possibility that he could be wrong about the nature of existence. Her revival suggests that, even if he dismisses the idea of an afterlife or the possibility of existing within a simulation, there’s no certainty in his assumptions. The film is, in essence, “calling him out” and quite literally “smacking him in the head by showing that he doesn’t hold the ultimate truth.
So, her resurrection isn’t just a plot twist, -it’s a reminder that we don’t truly know what lies beyond life or the nature of reality itself. He could have been wrong.
Religion is false. God is real.
Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
There are multiple ways to interpret the butterfly. The sister may have been hallucinating due to blood loss. Or the other sister only shows up momentarily as a butterfly to let her know she's on the other side and then disappears. Or it's just a butterfly from the house and it flew away.
And you don’t reincarnate to a lower form of life.
@@hlnbee Yes, you do that is because it's based on your Karma.
Great explanation
What's missed here is that an early conversation among the three touched on the so-called near death experience (NDE), and the question of whether an NDE is merely a hallucination the brain manufactures as death becomes imminent. My interpretation of the movie's end is that Sister Paxton did die from the stab wound Mr. Reed inflicted and had an NDE: where Sister Barnes came back to life to finish off Mr. Reed before he could finish off Sister P and that her subsequent escape from the house was part of the NDE, symbolized by the hallucinatory butterfly briefly seen on her finger. Her declaration of faith toward the end, as she prays no matter if it helps or not, allows her to die free from the house and in the clear light of day in a beautiful, snowy (symbol of purity) landscape. Religion (praying) may have given her some peace, but science (NDE phenomena) may have been what truly gave her peace.
Stumbled across your video and 2mins in I can already tell your video’s gonna be great. Keep making content, I like your style :)
@@maxmumridefan Thank you bro!!
Hugh Grant had me in awe the entire movie!!! I thoroughly enjoyed this film. The ending was maybe a little too in the nose or idk like “in the end faith prevails” vibe but i guess it could also be perfect considering how sister P was clever and managed to deconstruct her faith and still was able to push through because of it? Idk if any of this makes sense lol but overall i really liked this movie
Ok before I say anything this is actually one of the better reviews I’ve seen, so props to you.
It’s generally not a good idea to blindly follow anything just for the sake of following that thing. Now I’m not a Mormon, so I won’t speak on the Book of Mormon, but I *am* a Christian. So I can speak on the validity of the Bible.
Like I said before, it’s important to not just blindly follow anything, and have critical thinking. But I don’t think this movie has the answer to if religion is real or fake with just the elements it tries to touch on. Many people have been drawn to Christ as well as wandered away, using critical thinking. So it’s really a matter of perspectives. Asking questions is important, but I believe if you ask enough questions it will always lead the inquirer back to God. This has happened with me.
In essence, if critical thinking, (in this terminology) is used to draw people away from religion, then even more so, when willing to question themselves as well as their topic, critical thinking draws you back to God in full circle. Because all He wants to do is welcome you back to Him. Christianity is more so a relationship with Christ than a religion, but it holds up when even pinned against other religions. When we really start to question each other’s stances. Because the main difference is, we rest upon Christ’s finish work on the cross, and not hoping to be good enough. Because we never will be and that’s the point of grace.
Following God doesn’t take away critical thinking, it actually enhances it if we if we dare ask that question.
Anyway, just some deep thought. Sorry for the rant. I actually love A24 and horror so the vibe of this movie actually hits different. Actors did a fantastic job too.
I like how the theme of iteration continues through the end credits. What I thought was "Fade Into You" by Mazzy Star was a cover of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
As an ex Mormon, and former sister missionary I already love this movie!!!!!!
Religion is false. God is real.
Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4v Yeah, we used to discuss the idea of a God watching us as if we are entertainment (in Philosophy at school). But I do not believe in God or Satan, I believe in religion or Gods used as a manner of CONTROL. That's why I find this movie so alluring.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4vbut you got your idea of god from religion so how do you know God is real
@@ChrisM-yq2pq True I got the idea from religion, but based from my observation, religion mainly uses God as an excuse to get money and control. If we were to use common sense and just human logic, which the old people use to do, people worship nature, the sun, because they know that someone created these things to benefit human kind, no need of religion to fill religious leaders pockets while the rest starve. Just worship the God because he can be found throughout creation.
@Justmyopinionsir-q4v creation? Really? People believe in creation because they cannot comprehend the idea of natural process and evolution. There is no god who creates nor who rewards, judges or punishes. There is no need to believe in one. If you still think someone created all these, yes go ahead but at least for the practical purpose of anything there is no such need.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
- Seneca
@@bphifer yo if ur ever feeling down u should listen to the Quran
@@hasnainrana6416 He is wise. So he knows it is false
@@spliffzombonie lol sure buddy whatever helps u sleep at night….just remember one day you’ll die ….I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.
@@hasnainrana6416 I used to think that way buddy. You're free to believe whatever you want as long as it gives you peace. Just don't shove your belief on someone else. And one more thing, your whole belief, the last thing you said, is just based on fear. You want to believe because you fear of finding out an actual god when you die. I don't like that. I like to live, love people, and preserve my morals regardless if there is a reward at the end. Regardless if there is a god or not. Regardless if I get to live forever or not. Of course, this is not for everyone.
@@spliffzombonie i agree with wht u said in the beginning. I disagree with what u said abt my whole belief being based on fear, in reality my belief is based on not just fear but HOPE. Also fear isn't a bad thing, fear drives pple out of their comfort zone, also fear can push pple away from doing bad things and can drive pple to do good things. About what u said at the end, that's great but IMO it's better to preserve ur morals and love people with a belief in God than without, cuz belief in God adds a layer of depth to everything. but hey believe what u wanna believe, I'm not trynna debate u... much love, stay healthy!
Man I completely interpreted the ending differently. I think that Mr. Reed actually stabs her in the neck when she’s praying and everything after was a hallucination. I thought this because earlier in the movie when they were talking about near death experiences it’s said that one will experience (see/feel) miracles as they pass on. So when she saw sister Barnes miraculously get up just in time , or that she suddenly has the strength to get up and climb out, or all of a sudden it’s completely beautiful outside when moments before it was a massive storm I think that was all in her mind and finally the miracle butterfly that disappeared in the next shot gave her the peace and in the very last shot you see her face has almost a realization
This was a great break down. I agree with the theme of belief and disbelief down to the last scene. Remember butterfly also symbolizes transformation which is a good call back to Sister Paxston.
I am shocked Paxton didn’t close the hidden door after she stabbed him. That would have been the smart thing to do.
Ok, maybe I missed something, but at the end of the movie, the girl is in the field and sees the butterfly. The filmmaker shows two perspectives. In only one perspective is the butterfly shown, from the girl's perspective. I took that as the filmmaker saying belief is relative. The girl wanted to continue believing, and on the verge of death, hallucinates (for lack of a better word) the butterfly.
The message from this film is don't go to strangers'homes imposing your beliefs on others. It's not safe for women to go into strangers homes. You don't know that person anything can happen. This is the world we live in, sad yet true.✌🏽❤️
In watching this (amazing and I totally recommend it if you can handle a dialogue heavy first act) movie, I took the thesis to be that control isn’t the true religion, EMPATHY is. Sister P explains that the point of prayer isn’t to effect real change - even the Bible
has a parable about not expecting prayer to save you when you haven’t taken any action. The true point of prayer is knowing someone cares enough to pray for you. That’s the miracle. And when Sister B wakes up, that’s the true miracle in the movie - just as Hugh Grant said she’d do.
The point is that god or the universe or whatever is showing Hugh’s character that he doesn’t truly have control. He believes control is the point of religion. But those who pay attention can see that the true through line through every iteration of the religion is empathy and love and caring. Even after trying to kill him Sister P shows empathy to HG’s character and prays for him. She has done everything she can, taken every action she can to fight his evil and at the end all she can do is pray. And her prayer is answered with a Lazarinthian miracle.
I’m ex LDS and not very religious but I thought this movie was AMAZING. I may not have firm religious beliefs, but I love the respect and care they showed at the end - proving that for all Hugh’s debating and trying to prove he’s a man dreaming he’s a butterfly…in the end we are all just butterflies. The movie firmly commits to the idea of an afterlife in Sister B’s reincarnation as a butterfly. Honestly I want to watch this movie again because there were so many details - even down to how each sister carried her bike up the stairs to foreshadow who would survive. It’s truly a well-made super tight script where everything is foreshadowed and everything comes back around.
Lol sorry for writing a book on here. You should do another video analysis on this one it was fascinating and I’m glad I found your channel
Reed ripped off the sister's tendons when he was reaching for the 'chip'. It is impossible to hold and hit someone without tendons, she was very dead. It's either a miracle or a hallucination.
That is no proving one way or the other that's the point of faith you ether have it or you don't
True but why do we need to have faith? We don't operate on that system of doing things anywhere else in life. Everywhere else we demand evidence and proof of something.
@@Dr.Beetlejuice110 But you can't get proof without death, or truly knowing what lies after it. So that separates faith from other things that can be rationalized in those terms.
@Dr.Beetlejuice110 according to the Bible "faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". So actually it is not blind, it is based on "assured expectation" and "evidence". We have this sort of faith all the time in everyday things. For example, when you drive you have faith when you step on the brake the car will stop. Do you 100% know this will actually happen? No you don't. In fact there is a chance they fail and it might not. But you have the assured expectation it will because every other time the brakes worked so based on that evidence and assurance you stake your life on the fact next time they will also work. But you can't technically know. That's what faith is.
I thought it was interesting at the very end where it flashed suddenly and the butterfly was gone, maybe supporting the "simulation hypothesis" talked about earlier in the film. Another interesting fact is in the credits is a cover song of Bob Dylan's knocking on heavens door, which I think is a nod to the reiterations of the board games and music also mentioned earlier in the movie
This movie is so unsettling I've been watching videos to try to grapple with the premise and themes. I recommend it for sure. Good review.
I wonder how the Mormon church feels about this . movie
@@Dra3000 I can hazard a guess lol
@@Dra3000 probably neutral, won’t be the first time there’s been a film featuring Mormons and it won’t be the last 😂
Most lds people I know that's seen it have really liked it
In response to this movie the LDS church put out a formal statement that they're displeased with it, saying that it suggests they promote violence against women
Remember, it wasn’t the fact that they needed another adult
They actually specifically needed another woman present
@@joelsnyder5866 I mean a woman is an adult lol but regardless, the specification doesn’t actually change literally anything. Either way he still lied to get them to come inside.
This movie is well wrotten in general, but a big reason is because it isn't particularly interested in telling you what you have to think about its themes and ideas, regardless of the opinions of those making it. Not only is that just good writing practics in gsneral (which more storytellers today meed to follow than currently do), it shows that they're self aware enough to apply their own ideas to themselves. The story is clearly questions blind faith, but it also questions the antagonist as well. For or against faith in any religious system or spiritual practice isn't the point. The point is that whether you are religious/spiritual or not, regardless of what you do or don't believe, you should always be guided by critical thinking (Sister Barnes and by the end, Sister Paxton) and both reject blind faith (Sister Paxton at the beginning) and guard against motivated reasoning to justify your beliefs and actions (Mr. Reed).
The butterfly wasn’t really there though she was only seeing it in her mind. She initially sees it but then the next shot she’s still looking at her finger and nothing is there. I need to rewatch!
Religion doesn't have to be proved real, it feels good to imagine. That's enough for most people.
until they shove their beliefs on others. That is the history of religion and what makes it a threat.
@@markdayell61 Everybody shoves their beliefs on others, whether they are religious or not. You are doing it right now.
_Choosing_ to accept that something intangible is real is an important part of the whole religion thing. If you prove it, you kinda take away from it.
@@durere Then why believe something there is no real and acceptable evidence of? I just don't understand faith.
If it feels good to imagine, you are feeling faith, not religion
I think Barnes coming back was real, but the butterfly was a hallucination (whether she was dying or it was just a near-death experience I don't know).
Also, I think there was one more theme you missed: belief vs. action. We were led to believe that Barnes was the one who thought critically, and Paxton was the blind follower, based on how they acted.
But, that wasn't entirely true. Barnes thought critically, but for better or worse she still believed.
Paxton knowing about that study at the end meant she'd already done her research too, and I think the implication was she already thought her religion was a crock. She just didn't care. She wanted the community.
@@SerpenThrope me personally I thought it was just showing that it’s nicer for her to believe that her friend is in a better place and she imagines that whole situation but in reality it’s not there. But it’s real to her
When he explained why all the religions are fake, he never argued against Orthodox Christianity 🙏🏻☦️☦️☦️
Can anyone tell me why after stabbing Mr. reed and making her way to his office, she goes back into the dungeon? Take the time to barricade the office door, but goes down there where she knows there are tunnels.
She was trying to get out by going through the tunnels. But she should have just found the front door timer.
I think you missed one small aspect about Paxton at the end.
When she finds freedom, she sees the world as it is (like a pinhole image) for a brief moment, and then aligns herself to that perspective.
On top of the dialogue, the interplay of the light and the dark and angles is a feast for the eyes
The opening also establishes that religion is another form of marketing, and like marketing, it doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. It's that its main concern is selling something and not being right (morally or factually).
That was very well thought out and executed Mr. Nocturnal. When I was at University, I made a study of comparative religion, and I found that all of the world religions had a few fallacies which sunk their own ship...except for one. If you are going to wrap your life around a formal religion, you do need to have reasonable grounds for adhering to the existence of things, that cannot be scientifically demonstrated (i.e., the existence of Hell, of angels, etc.), but accepted on the authority of the 'revealer'. In other words, can you verify the integrity of the 'revealer'? If so, then you are good to go.
@@Im_straight-t4d which religion?
That's an interesting take on religion. I've yet to encounter religious leaders that put integrity above control.
The idea that she died in the basement does make the most sense in the context of belief and not following the evidence. If you believe that her friend survived what was done to her, you are making a massive jump considering how grounded and world is. It plays with this concept with the prophet and sets it up with the prophets speech.
I disagree because Sister Paxton wasn't praying for release from the basement her prayer was of thanks, and praying for others up to the very end. Right before Mr. Reed goes to stab her in the neck. She wasn't praying for help to get out. So that wouldn't really make sense about how if Sister Barnes survived long enough to kill Mr. Reed. They also very clearly used foreshadowing regarding the piece of wood with nails.
The implant being removed and doing what he did to the vein or artery would kill you. Though that also could have slowed her death down by a little bit too, but I am guessing from the throat cut, no way she lived more than maybe 15 minutes.
The movie doesn't prove anything one way or the other and that's kind of the point
This review was beautifully crafted. I am headed back to the movies to see it again. I love a movie that can be used as a conversational piece.
@@huneydeelight Thank you, I am looking forward to seeing it again as well!
I bet the blueberry pie was secretly keegan Michael Key
I’m confused as to why Sister Paxton was so openly discussing reincarnation and then having that faith supposedly confirmed when it goes against her actual religion that she is a part of. As far as I know Mormons reject the idea of reincarnation.
And Reed not noticing that cost him his life too. Or he thought he could control her because of her confusion about her own faith.
Control is the backbone of any religion
That's why I left. I realized it was all about control.
@@allnamesaretakenful Who exactly was trying to control you?
Of some, but any? Brother what are you smoking? Put the pipe down dawg
Umm, is that bad? All institutions are about control.
@@AdoreYouInAshXI the right..the Christian right who are the ones that control the globe. For proof...who voted trump in for a second term...Christian protestant Catholic voters did. Now do groups like builderburg etc subscribe to Christian religion....I think so but I have no proof. What do hypothesize is that they use the Christian religion whenever they need to in order to divide and conquer the population in order to bring about their ends which is the business is the most important thing. The people is here for the business not the other way around. So for greed and power. Which is not very Christian because Christianity is fake. It's used to divide us for their ends.
I haven't seen Heretic yet. But I intend to soon. I kinda hate the ad for it, but I think it's brilliant. I hate it because it sounds like a Hallmark type deal or an ad for a church. That's precisely why it's brilliant. Then that joke thing comes in so slick and oops, this guy is bad news and that's all I know and want to know until I see it. Oh I did watch 2 minutes of the review and sensed spoilers, will watch the rest after I've seen the movie.
The cinematography tho
'The first religion started when the first conman met the first fool'. Mark Twain.
I think unfortunately she died at the end and she’s having anoxia hallucinations. How are you gonna have a butterfly like that in that weather.
Loved your thoughtful and detailed review! Was looking for a good review on this film and was continuously disappointed til now
@@tahsinarahman168 Thank you so much! 😊 glad I didn’t disappoint you
One thing that bugs me after she escapes is that her phone still shows no service. There has to be a reason for showing this. Also, if you go with the theory that she died in the basement, how would she know about the model of the house? She never saw it until she escaped the basement after being stabbed. The butterfly on her finger could have been a hallucination while dying.
Wouldn’t she have seen it on the desk before she blocked the door
She saw the model before being stabbed.
Consider that the ending was meant to be intentionally ambiguous, because as with the general motif from the film, when left with unknowns it becomes easier to believe whatever makes you feel comfortable. Create your own explanation as to what the ending really meant. For me, I think the fact that the butterfly did not fly away but rather disappeared tells me that sister Paxton had been having a near-death hallucination and Barnes had never woken up; She had died, and so did both herself and Mr. Read. But, like I said, interpret it anyway you like. That's what I think makes the ending brilliant.
Great review❤❤❤❤
Appreciate it!! 🙂
Everything in this film can be double checked to a large degree
I know because this religion business is the first rabbit hole I went down, approx 47 years ago…the information is much easier to find now, but critical thinking is STILL required ! All information came from Somewhere, and I think we’re past believing that Anything foundational is any more than Baloney
I watched this one twice. I noticed so much more on the second watch! It's one of the best movies I've seen this year.
The "miracle" ending was purposely ambigious. The logical interpretation is Barnes didn't die initially, she passed out and was the brink of dying, and had one last gasp effort to stop Reed. And the butterfly at the end was just a butterfly (they saw it flying around earlier looking for a way out, when she broke out it escaped with her). It's perfectly reasonable explanation without adding a supernatural/magical explanation. The religious/spritual interpretation is Barnes died & was resurrected and the butterfly was her spirit. This addresses a major issue with religious belief where people add meaning to things that don't need them and fool themselves. and it's the perfect compliment to the 1st half of the movie which is about how scammers can fool people into believing whatever they want, whether about religion or blueberry pies
I enjoyed the part where one of the girls complimented mr Reed on being more dedicated to studying the book of Mormon than they were. As an ex Christian I always found it fascinating that you will run into atheists who have more knowledge of the Bible and the history of it than most Christians. I guess it's not surprising though, those atheists also tend to be ex Christians who had unresolved questions who did enough research into their ideology to convince them that their religious beliefs weren't inerrant facts
I like to think that Paxton actually died when Reed crawled to her and then stabbed her in the neck and the ending of her being saved by Barnes was just a hallucination Paxton’s brain came up with in her final breaths
As a diehard atheist, I loved the soliloquy in the middle!
I wonder what would have happened if they just let him yap for the rest of the night because I feel like he could’ve gone on. Like just keep debating
Why would we assume the girls are "blindly" following their faith?
@@madrush24 Context clues
That A24 on the gate is not in the actual film unless you have the deleted scenes, which if you do, may we see what ended up on the cutting room floor? Some scenes jumped too quickly, I thought.
Uummm, i hate to be a stickler, but was there really enough time for her to be reincarnated into a caterpillar, build a cocoon, and then become a butterfly
LMAO good point
I thought this movie was going to be similar to Saw.
Are you Certain? How fascinating how you are concluding she is not dead since "the movie had not miss *led you earlier". ...another end view interpreted. Brilliant.
@@angellombness4371 Am I certain that this is my interpretation?….Yes, I am.
What I mean by the movie not misleading the viewer up until the final act, is that everything that Mr. Reed does is explained away by Paxton or Barnes, until her (Paxton’s) final moments, which is true.
@@NocturnalCritic loved review. Question was meant in good faith -- MadMorph Movie Club RUclips reviewer noted another movie theme appeared to be "certainty". All thought provoking, grateful for your consideration.
(TY didn't expect reply 😅)
@@angellombness4371 It’s all good! 😊 and thank you for watching and leaving a comment.
Excellent review!
But ya that ending seems pretty cheesy and contrived.
@@theworldofwoo8320 the ending is open to interpretation, just like religion. Did she die in the basement and the ending was her dying vision as the brain died, or did she make it and her butterfly was the friend visiting? It’s up to you.
To me it was absolutely unambiguous that Sister Paxton died and Barnes was already dead. And that even the comfort of the butterfly of Barnes is the dying hallucination that Paxton needs, and her faith allows.
The friends I watched with thought she survived.
@@nicolapeters6949 I feel unambiguously she didn’t die. The argument for her dying doesn’t make sense because that explanation of what happens before you die was a lie that the man told the woman to say. Having it come true wouldn’t have any metaphorical meaning.
Humanity has conquered death.
By inventing religion,wich reveals to us that we live even when we die.
We all will survive death😮.
The last scene I believe was a hallucination.
She never escaped the house.
The escape and butterfly scenes was the nervous system trying to help her stay calm.
To slow down bleeding to give her a chance to survive.
She bled out inside the house.
Did anyone notice that the LLC is Blueberry LLC.
It's a good movie based on facts pertaining to religious mythology.
Will it change the minds of the brainwashed? Nope. They will continue pretending because it makes them feel comfortable. 😳
2 female missionaries wouldn't go into a nans house without someone with them.
I thought the point of the movie was that it doesn’t matter if religion is real or fake, it’s just something we use to get through life and all the hard stuff.
nothing is real . we just have the way things are and the way things appear to us
The whole setup of Hugh Grant's test is a recreation of the Greek Mystery Cult. But his whole motive and behaviour makes him more like the demiurge in Gnostic mythology.
In other words, Heretic might be a self-reference of the movie, in that the story of the movie is a heretic view of Christianity (just like many people would see LDS Church).
So everything after the beginning, and I mean BEGINNING, is heretical? I can go with that too.
It's a yes, but religion is good to keep our children from doing stupid stuff and keep them in check.
@@TheSushiandme right but so is Santa and those kids grow up eventually and find out the truth, some adults stay believing in religion
They actually can’t enter unless there’s a woman present. Sister missionaries need a woman to be there to go in; boy missionaries need a man. (They can’t go into the home of just women)
You missed the fact that the butterfly at the very end is shown to clearly be a hallucination by the character.
The butterfly is there to clearly add ambiguity, which is what I said.
@NocturnalCritic it doesn't add ambiguity as I said. It clearly shows it as there from her point of view and then absent from our audience pov. Clearly intended to show that she is only imagining it.
@@jasonmarleyrain6226 No, it’s shown for you to decide which interpretation you think is correct, which is what ambiguity means. How could you miss a clear continuous, and reiterated theme throughout the whole movie?
@NocturnalCritic I'm not the one who missed the clearly intended ending.
@@jasonmarleyrain6226 If you seriously believe that the ending was definitive, not only did you miss the intended purpose of the ending, you missed the intended purpose of the entire film.
Now I want blueberry pie!!!!
Very nice movie…. I think she died, I was trying to make sense of the cellphone on the ground that fell when she jumped out of the window. Did he purposely put the bicycle key in her coat? it’s a movie that is really about control. Control is the number one religion?
Also, why didn’t they see the trap door when they originally moved the table.
I think it's implied that it was covered up by his slave. We see Paxton having to wipe away mud and dirt to find the handle.
It's less about Religion, more about the underlying flaws in human cognition that allow it to spread. Lots of examples were given, but none so controversial.
Flaws of human pathology could be a better fit
Easy question no. Idk how many times it's said he does NOT interfere. If he did believe wouldn't be in faith. It's real simple why no matter what you go through it's a blink compared to eternity. This movie really doesn't cause the questions it believes it does. Nicest way to say this if you need proof of your faith then you don't have it. Guys a lunatic simple as. Still decent movie.
NO movie has ever proved anythign about anything that wasn't a movie.
I haven't watched the video because of the title. "heretic 'proves' 'religion' is 'fake?'..." People who don't care if their beliefs are true, will read your title and assume that their reading of it is correct, because it's vague enough to subscribe ones own beliefs. I suggest wording it differently, unless your video touches on the following criticisms.
Unless you are an atheist who wrote the title to trigger reddit-atheists, it's safe to assume you are theist.
'Proves,' is something you won't hear sceptical humanists say unless they are using math. It's indicative that the person who is asking the question thinks that you could prove, or disprove God, or anything other than mathematical equations. I understand that 'proves' is being used synonymously with 'being convincing'. But, then that would illustrate a disregard for the value of truth. People who care about what's true, also care about how they communicate their beliefs.
'Religion' - which one? Which religion might Heretic prove to be fake? Christianity, Catholicism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, 7th day Adventists, Baptists, Pentacost, Episcopal, Buddhists, Islam, Jewdaism, Rastafaism, Shintoists, or any of the thousands of other religions, or just religion in general? Do you mean theistic religions that believe in God, or atheistic religions that don't believe in God? Do you mean 'spiritual', 'supernatural', or 'metaphysical'? There's so many things that word represents that if not used correctly is confusing.
'fake' - something that is presented to be real, but isn't. If religion is fake, then everyone who claims that it's true, actually knows it's fake. If you say theists are lying, then you're saying that they know God doesn't exist, but deny it. I can't read minds, so I always assume that people's beliefs are as they say, since there's no way to convincingly demonstrate sincere belief. Obama said he's Christian, yet his Christian behaviors have not convinced those who think he's Muslim.
I become convinced by a claim with enough evidence, and without reasoned logic to make sense of that evidence, what counts as evidence and what doesn't, would become indistinguishable. If you're video is asking if God is fake, then I think only one thing matters. If you ask if God exists and I say, "I don't know", I'm saying that I do not know if God exists, AND I don't know if God doesn't exist, therefore, I don't believe in God. I believe things I know, and I don't believe things that I don't know. Was 9/11 a conspiracy? I don't know, so I don't believe it was. Was the official 9/11 story true? I don't know so I don't believe it was. We don't need to accept claims as true, if we don't feel knowledgeable enough, but it's very common for people to want to know, and accept the first thing they see. People who invest deeply in their beliefs form their identity around that belief. Losing that identity is painful if the believer were to lose it, and thus they actively reinforce it. No matter how false, or immoral.
Unless Hugh Grant has karate skills, I’m swinging
Although the fact that there was TWO of them and the movie didn’t end in ten minutes is just on the brainwashing and mind control theme
Religion is false. God is real.
Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
Religion makes people naive and easy to control.
So, from just this review, Grant's character is literally using his behavior to show religion, particularly, the Abrahamic religions. The wood with the three nails could be seen as the cross, showing that belief/disbelief all lead to TBE same place, the candle showing the thinness of the trappings of religion, and so on. I must see it!
A magnum bottle of wine is 1.5L, or 50 ounces - seems a bit excessive.
could be that the butterfly and the "resurrection" are both coincidences and you are imposing your belief on them... which would be an excellent wrap up to the movie. don't you think? after all, even TREMENDOUS coincidences can indeed just be coincidences.
The movie proves as much as your random reddit thread on religion.
I dont think it was meant to prove anything other than we dont know anything. Simple.
please do another I dont have coin to go see this but super interested in these themes. and hugh grant is killing it in trailers.
Ok another point, do you think that he heard the conversation about the magic underpants ? Cause why would that trigger him to doing that to Barnes
Yeah, he definitely overheard them talking using the speaker device he used to talk to them from upstairs. He killed her because he knew she was plotting to kill him. She was proving herself to difficult to be controlled, so he literally cut his loses.
People uses movies as reference for anything to handle real life is dumb,period. Movies are loosely based on real life happenings, its made purely for entertainment. Anyways, this movie is good .
I think he failed ultimately because he didn't learn the lesson in what he is trying to teach. The truest religion isn't control, it's choice. How he didn't make the connection after its in his face the whole time. We choose what we believe.
True faith is free will.
would love to hear more of your thoughts on this movie that didn't make it into this video. :)
It's good but I wouldn't say the best horror movie of the year. The substance gets that title
I consider the Substance grotesque, so not sure I would call it a great film.
I wish they would have gotten a mormon or exmormon to advise the script.
I went through a horror movie of a mission. It sucks to see a movie of my experience/being as a costume for a film written by a man.
I've been dragged into spooky homes. I've been threatened with death. I've been hit, poisoned, dragged by my hair on my mission. My companions were abusive. The random scary man lying about having a wife was the least of my problems.
Not to mention the church is being sued over 93 cases of child sexual abuse in California. Many mormons live in horor movies. They could have just done the bare minimum amount of research.
Sister misionaries are real people. Mormon women already live in a world where they are props for the men in their lives so it really sucks seeing a movie with the wild idea to make a movie about them being props for a random psycho man's games. If they framed it against how they are treated by mormon men that would be something. But sister paxton is going right back into a system that treats her like a prop in men's games. Did she really get out.
Is she the hot reward for a male return misionary. Or is she ruined by being traumatized and thinking too much so now her family and community will ostracize her.
One of the directors is married to an ex-Mormon and the two actresses are also exmormons. As an Exmormon who served a mission as well, I thought the dialogue was pretty spot on.
@symphonyofdissent But what about the script writer. As former sister missionary it just seems off.
Like in X we know a lot more about the characters where they come from what they are thinking and why they are all there.
The women in this project. Pie lady, and even the sisters seem like props for a dominate mad man. It's cool if the actresses are exmos, but the script like a lot of movies has that feeling where the script writer and director are identifying with the titular male character speaking to the audience. Like he is their mouth piece. Pearl feels like her own character.
Poor things had this too. Like Emma Stone's character was so writen by a man. Maybe it is just an A24 problem, but in Everything everywhere at once it felt more fleshed out. The tax auditor wasn't just a Prop Like pie lady. She was a whole character.
Like why were those women in cages. How were they brainwashed director/screenwriter talking right at us?
Wow, ok. Didnt expect that. I am sorry that happened to you but this movie wasnt about the characters IMO. It wasnt about really anything other than faith. You arent supposed to leave this movie with answers beyond what you already feel. I think its about what you believe...thats all. They put it up on the screen and you can interpret it however you choose.
Well written, a good movie.
God Squad in here crying I see 🙄
Nah. Just edge lord incels such as yourself arguing with imaginary people yet again. Like literally there’s nobody complaining about this movie.