that "what do you invest in vs what are you cheap about" question has been HAUNTING me since recording lmaoooo. I could not think of an answer!! after spending too much time overthinking it... I'd say I splurge on food (vegan goodies!!) though that's not an investment hahaha and I'm kind of cheap with clothing, but I try to go the cheap(er) secondhand clothes route. I think when it comes to buying stuff, I used to LOVE cheap things, but now when I see wildly low prices I get stuck thinking about how unethically they must have been produced in order to be priced so low, therefore I can't enjoy low prices like I used to / I try not to buy those super cheap things anymore especially since I can afford to pay more now. (extremely long-winded response for a rather simple question... my usual!!)
I relate. Not necessarily the answer (though I also have been investing more in healthy food in recent years) but the idea of later overthinking a question I didn't have an answer to until I come up with something lol
I quit Instagram and Twitter over a year ago. Never going back. The culture of being obsessed with ppl you don’t know, scrolling, commenting and arguing with other strangers abt celebrities and being so invested in their lives. The lives of strangers. It’s a waste of life. I’m so happy I quit early. I think If I let years go by with me being obsessed with strangers I’d feel like I wasted my life. I’m so happy when I’m out and ppl are talking abt celebrities and I have no idea what they are talking about. Im always like, isn’t it weird that you just spent 20 minutes talking abt or arguing abt someone who doesn’t know you or know of your existence? So weird. Nvr going back. It’s absolutely ridiculous
Ya, I am in the process of ending a friendship over many valid issues. But one issue is when she argued with me through text; She cussed me out over Kim Kardashian. I don't have a problem with her but apparently my "friend" hates her. It was a stupid argument because I agree Kim Kardashian the celebrity doesn't know us and we don't know her. So, why waste the energy hating her? That is my opinion anyways
The problem is also, that by giving that you invest energy (emotions), while maybe supporting that person through attention. Ignorance is often key: for your own health/ life and not furthering their financial gain (media attention). Obviously this doesn't apply for real issues... (war, dictatorship, environment, human rights violations). You should engage there, but maybe more in real life than on the internet so much.
Ok, so I don't think we should because the people who are into them do this deliberately obtuse thing where they "think" that we are referring to pyramid schemes by legal definition only (a definition Amway spent a lot of money on to make sure it doesn't include MLMs) so they see it as us flaunting our ignorance and does nothing to progress the conversation. I'll admit in my angrier moments I've called them pyramid schemes by every definition but the one Amway bought.
I like that there’s been a lot of youtubers lately, but would it be possible to bring in someone not a commentary youtuber? Id be really interested in hearing from someone in healthcare, since most young people don’t understand their healthcare options, what it costs to access them, and the really complex healthcare system that exists in the U.S.
@@GlamGoddes101 yeah, totally! Like the 2 mental health therapists/youtubers that have been on the show. It think it’s just be great to have someone whose primary occupation isn’t cultural commentary, since there are a lot of different episodes on that already.
I was briefly involved in a big MLM company years ago. While there are a lot of negative things about my experience with MLM, one positive thing is it actually taught me how to say no to other MLMs by using the "script" I was taught by this MLM to sell the company to others. Sharing this to hopefully help others as well. Basically, it boils down to 3 things: 1. No, I have no need for your products right now. 2. I am not interested in joining and turning it into my business/side hustle. 3. I can't think of anyone in my circle of influence right now that would be interested in your products or would be interested in starting a business. I usually tell the MLM recuiter these statements together as soon as I have confirmed they are with an MLM company so that it gives them less of an opportunity to convince you to buy or "invest". It also tells the recruiter that they aren't going to get anything out of you and that their time is better spent trying to convince someone else. After these 3 statements, MLM people usually have nothing else to say and will leave me alone :)
I say "no and please don't ask me again" If I say "no, because..." They will try to solve the reason or ask again later. A firm no is all that is needed.
I would absolutely LOVE to know how Bella Hadid actually feels about the way she looks. Like is she happy? Does she feel pretty? What does it physically feel like for her to touch her own face?
I think a part of the MLM hook is that people think that they could be the 1% that doesn't lose money, similarly in a wider sense as to how people buy into the American dream more generally
Diving a little further into how Tiffany said that MLM promotion videos dismiss legitimate critiques of MLMs, I think it's tied to the technique people who spread misinformation use - they just say "other" sources are not credible (with no real backup of those arguments), and then afterwards, they can just say whatever they want that goes against information that's been actually vetted and widely available (eg, Flat Earth movement, virus conspiracies, etc)
My husband and I have had many conversations about face filters. We have decided it’s best not to use them in excess, especially for our daughters. A cat filter every now and then is fun, but I definitely don’t want my daughter to start having body issues.
This entire commentary is brilliant, amazing and necessary. Your scathing rebuke of MLMs and how the particular business model preys on women is epic. Why, WHY are all of my internet ads now for MLMs??? WHYYYYYY????
27:30 Yes! CHOICE FEMINISM is really flawed... First not every woman has choice, choice is a privilege, and second we need to recognize that our choices are influenced by our environment, patriarchy, influencers.. Yet it's still important to recognize that choice has always been the way women emancipate, we need to find that balance
So many great conversations! I really liked the one on girl bosses. I hate the noise out there that working a 9-5 job means you can't be happy. I see this not only through MLMs but other spaces online too. I 100% agree wages should be higher across the board, but being able to "love what you do" is a privilege. Starting a business or changing careers isn't accessible if you make little money, are in debt, or have goals outside of professional ones. I really appreciate TFD for always acknowledging this. It's helped me be happier and not look towards my job as my only sense of fulfillment.
The best thing I did was come to the realization that online beauty standards are still very eurocentric and that is why I do not fit the standard. The online beauty standards are so damaging to women of color because women of color are rarely the ones being looked at. Even more so dark women of color. To the point of MLMs I always debunk their claims publicly. My cousin posted about a low calorie coffee and a mentioned to her that a 8oz cup of coffee is 2 calories and I didnt know how much lower you could go.
I don’t think the look is actually Eurocentric when you see people in Europe. It’s not what they look like. It’s not what they aspire for. I think the new look doesn’t look like anyone group but a blend of features that wouldn’t normally exist together. Granted, it occurs in a certain shade range. But that shade is wider than “white”. Which I find interesting.
The saddest part of MLMs is the people who just keep going back. My mom has been involved in at least 4, I was a kid for the first 3 and didn't really know what was going on, but looking back as an adult I remember how much product piled up that I now realize wasn't sold and is lost money for my family. She joined one while I was in college and I tried to talk to her about it, but she was really resistant.
I will say, that was the one really "nice" thing about Rodan and Fields compared to other MLMs, back when I was in it at least (I assume they haven't changed the business model). You never had to buy product to then try to resell it. You were always encouraged to have your customers order online and have their products shipped directly to them. Anything you had shipped to yourself was either your own personal use items or else sample items you wanted to use for giveaways or whatever. It still had many of the other unpleasant features of most MLMs, but at the very least, I didn't have piles of unsold products when I finally gave it up.
So thankful I didn’t have access to photo filters growing up.. I stopped wearing makeup because I could tell I no longer recognized my naked face as my true self identity.. can’t imagine how much body dysmorphia I would be battling if I was constantly using filters
In my experience, the worst part about MLMs was the blame and shame when you fail and can't afford to keep "investing." I went to a Mary Kay training thing as a new consultant and they tried to convince us that if you keep picking yourself up and are willing to work hard, it'll pay off. And it didn't stop at the implication of the opposite, it was explicitly said! About 2 months later, I had to gift or throw away the whole stock and say a silent prayer to my pride and the money I'd lost.
As a man who worked in an MLM that pitched Verizon fios I really felt the section about those co-workers not being your friends... I remember quitting and going to say goodbye to people only for one of the higher ups to stop me and make me feel bad for being a quitter.... smh... very toxic work environment 😒
RE: MLMs, I found a fascinating deep-dive Podcast series about them at the beginning of the pandemic. It's called The Dream, and I think they did a full 2 seasons on it. It is jaw dropping. They go into the entire history. They even have someone on their team attend one of those conventions, and what she observes is both sad (for the folks on the bottom) and shameful(from the ones on top). They also get into the wellness industry (crystals n shit). RE: girlboss culture too, totally reminded me of that episode of Shrill when she goes to that the WAHAM conference! I also want to say, learning more about MLMs and the growth of the wellness industry (think, goop), has made me more self-aware about how "feminism" is a tool for capitalism/consumption, and ultimately attempting to bankrupt me lol. I mean, walking into the wellness section of Anthropologie used to be a freaking drug to me, and I can't say I wouldn't be tempted today. I'm not saying you shouldn't want candles, crystals, lotions,etc ever, but it's interesting to see how the style changes over time. Like nowadays there is a huge focus on the mystical feminine, specifically astrology, which I have a lot of issues with, especially with so many people profiting off being professional bs'ers...IMO
@@faithzani6442 I think they’re referencing the popularity of goop as one of the reasons “wellness culture” is so big and extensive now, not that it’s an mlm.
Gen-X TikTok has literally changed my life. You definitely get out of it what you want. I am 47, the people my age that are making content are amazing! I enjoy it so much. I have found a very supportive, creative, welcoming community on TT.
I quit Instagram years ago after having my first baby when I realized it was compulsive scrolling with no benefit to my life. Not that it’s the same for everyone but it’s worth asking if you’re actually enjoying using a type of social media.
For mlms, I think it's important to think about someone's experience is just like a cult. They aren't aware of their predator behavior because they've been manipulated into believing that mlm is what they're told. It doesn't mean we should ignore it and give them excuses, but I think people aren't going to see the actual truth until they experience it and take time to listen and research about mlms. And it's terrible, but we all know that humans in general won't listen to someone if you're not wanting to hear it. And that's why I think awareness online and sharing your experience is SO important. And I have so many friends who have no idea what mlms are still - it blew my mind. But we have to continue sharing info and stories with our loved ones before they become interested in the business.
I believe the reason that anti-MLM content stays within the anti-MLM community, and doesn't reach further, is simply because of how social media works : it shows what you interact with. It's how people in MLMs get swept into other MLMs: once they start interacting with MLM content, that's the content that see; which probably includes videos that 'debunk' anti MLM content. It really isn't discussed enough how hard it is to break social media echo chambers. They are basically like being in a cult: its hard to see the outside when you're in it.
As someone who has had years in an MLM due to family pressure, I don’t think you realize how unaware people are of the capitalist structures and exploitation that underlay MLMs; years into building the network, some people simply continue on hope and are blind to financial losses due to the MLM. My close family spent a decade climbing out of poverty and a debt hole and there was very little hope we had in anything but the promise of having our own business (the MLM). I am also a terrible salesman and got out of the MLM only to be labeled a traitor and “how could you do this to your family?” I’m glad in the end of the video you came back around to making sure not to victim-blame. Also, I don’t think you realize how much money can be lost when starting a traditional non-MLM business. When you frame a MLM’s losses in that light, you’ll start to get a sense of why people don’t just “wake up” to how they’re being exploited and how they are exploiting others.
Absolutely love this episode, great job!! I would totally watch a podcast where it was just Chelsea and Tiffany talking about different things every episode.
“I feel like in America there’s ten thousand things that take people’s righteous frustration and desperation with a social safety net that fails them at every turn and channels it into the most unproductive outlet. ‘You’re angry that you’re unemployed and have no options to help feed your family? Come and join this scammy period scheme!' Like, 'Come and join QAnon!’ " - Chelsea
I have some thoughts For a really long time beauty have been the most important thing for women That, obviosly, came from patriarchy And when feminists appeared and this movement of "women are not just a pretty thing" became more popular, beauty companies and corporations saw an opportunity in this, because when they say "you can do whatever you want with your body" they mean "here are the products we can sell you and become even more rich"..so that "girl boss" shit is really messed up. When they say "we're all beautiful and unique", there's always a girl who thinks "all but me", and you can't convince her otherwise She can't see beauty in her So what I'm trying to say is the whole concept of "everyone is beautiful" is damaging, even with the best intentions But "I'm not beautiful-and it's ok" is the way to go
I gave up on health coaching and furthering my health education because of these “girl bosses”. My voice drowns in the field due to the amount of misinformation they spew.
I was 17 or 18 when I was marketed a MLM scheme by my friend. At that time also I had the brain to see through it and realise something was fishy. But many of my classmates still fell for it. It's so obvious that it is a scam.
This was really enjoyable especially as a Tiffany Ferg fan. The whole face changing thing is sad because obviously they can, you have bodily autonomy, but it makes me wonder how long it would've taken figures like Kylie Jenner and Bella Hadid to love themselves how they naturally are, if they hadn't grown up wealthy. Most regular people can't just go and change themselves, even then it might just be a nose job or breast augmentation, but most normal people don't become unrecognizable.
This whole video perfectly captures the problems I have with social media: 90~95% of all content and the people involved in it is not real. It’s all a work, and kids are uncritically eating it up.
Really dug this collab since Ive been following you both for a while. I answer in the same way that Tiffany does. It starts with an answer, but then philosophical counterpoint...and another counterpoint we have to acknowledge etc.
My problem with MLMs and people in them is where is the line between being a victim and personal responsibility. My mom decided to sell creative memories in 2009 when we almost lost our house. She could’ve just gone back to being a legal secretary but no she decided to put us farther in debt. So frustrating.
49 year old mama here. This video was so educational for me. I’ve never heard of any of the people you mentioned... except the Kardashians. What stood out to me was when you said something about teenagers minds being mush. As a mother of a teenager and a 20 year old, I disagree. I think teens are amazing young people who are capable of so much. I think they are often limited by cultural standards and the minimum things we expect from them. We encouraged my adult son in all his interests. He ended up playing around with a RUclips channel for a while. But he also became a 2nd shooter for a successful wedding photographer at 16. He was collecting toys for Toys for Tots Christmas campaigns. He was organizing youth events at church. He then volunteered at events for a company where he was later hired as an intern for 2 years. He is almost done with college, worked as an RA and a tour guide, and done another internship by 20. He has a woman he adores and has so much fun in life. He has savings, no college loans, and knows how to spot and turn down MLM opportunities. I don’t say this to brag (yet I’m so proud of my son), but young people are amazing and capable of so much. So to young people, I say, don’t limit yourself!! Ask older people you admire lots of questions. Learn, try, figure out what you are good at, and don’t let people put limits on you due to your age!
I'm sure it's not what you meant but just in case it is, can we get rid of this idea that stay at home moms can't find work or are not very hireable. A lot of us have degrees and jobs with good references before choosing to become a SAHM. The issue isn't that we can't find work or are not very hireable, it's that some SAHMs want to make an income while still getting to stay at home with our children. That's why MLMs prey on SAHMs
I dont think its the best mindset to say "I no longer understand the younger generation" because it can make you think that they aren't worth trying to understand and you never will. But you might understand and staying open minded to them will keep you curious in life and always wanting to understand other people.
I think what she means is she doesn't have the first hand experience to understand the current youngest generation, as compared to the culture she grew up in and can understand at a very close level. When it stops being part of your experience you have to really look into many aspects that you weren't exposed to and might not even know exist, and it becomes more complex, you also clearly have the mindset of an adult which is not the same as being a kid and teen experiencing current popular culture. We can understand them at some level but not like we understand our own generational experiences.
Hear me out: drug dealing is the ultimate MLM. Only the folks at the top make any real money, to grow you need to recruit those under you. I guess the only difference is a product people actually want or end up dependent upon due to addictions.
I wanted to enter something a friend and I explored recently re-plastic surgery. As women, and non-binary people there is so much we do to present outselves in the world aesthetically. But one thing we noted is is you put something like: fake nails and fake eyelashes and micro blading at odds with something like lip fillers or lypo, you kind of find the root of the question: who guides these industries and who are they for. I know when I see for profit plastic surgeons they are mostly men and mostly white men, and they almost always try to upswell you on more and more and more things that are wrong with you. Make up artists, nail artists, facial tattoo artists, aestheticians are mostly women and queer folks, all of whom I have seen in my lifetime and a: they are priced according to outcome, and I go out of those interactions hyped up by the interaction and feeling really special and important and in community
Regarding filters and edited/unedited images, I follow some people that show the before/after on themselves. It feels so much less icky than the ones that are tearing down the celebs. I like Danea Mercer. Seeing what ACTUAL SKIN looks like on Instagram has improved the quality of my life so much
It would be interesting for Tiffany to see Grackle (Grace) here on RUclips. She used to be a model and now she has a RUclips and she just graduated culinary school. She shattered every preconceived notion I had about models and beauty. I would encourage everyone to check her out.
My least favorite style mlm is the forex mlm, where they convince you that you’re learning to “invest” while almost all of the money is in the downline. 🙃
I was so uncomfortable when an acquaintance reached out to pitch me her MLM (it was the first time anyone had ever tried to involve me) that I completely ghosted her. I was so anxious about whether or not I should tell her it was an MLM--and I already knew I wouldn't buy anything from her--so I stopped taking her calls and after six months I have still not texted her back ': )
It's amazing how I have been a subscriber of this channel even though it seems like it's way outside my usual bubble. I have to google almost every name dropped here and I have only known one of your guests before seeing them on your show. Weird, but refreshing, honestly.
There is a huge male element of mlms that people really ignore that traces back to the early mlms like Amway, and I think that exploring that would help people unpack the way that mlms thrive.
Love this crossover. My next guest request would be Hannah Louise Poston because she created her channel essentially to process her bad money management 😅
I was in an MLM for about a year, and yes, the sales tactics they teach each other were really off-putting. It was a pretty gross feeling when I joined and was added to the group chats to see how they talked about recruiting people and realized that I was once one of the many people that they talked about like that. I do have a few friends who have been genuinely pretty financially successful in MLMs. But I just really do not like the business model, I do not like the sales tactics, I don't like the fact that their products are pretty much all overpriced. It's just all intentionally made worse than it should be.
Thank you for doing this crossover that I didn’t even know I needed. I would love a part 2 where you talk about how we women are targeted to buy things. I think this topic deserves a deep dive with regards to culture (Tiffany) and finance (Chelsea)
I recently spent $7k on Invisalign (could never afford the dentist growing up.) I didn’t really think about it at the time, but how much of that decision was based off of what I felt others perceived. I had a huge gap. I don’t completely regret it but it was a lot of money for something that I definitely did not need.
Well you only get one set of teeth. And having crooked teeth causes problems long term especially if your bite is not even. So don’t beat yourself up. I say your teeth is something you should try to do preventative care etc etc. I mean once you lose them their gone. You can get fake ones but they won’t be the same
What is different in this age is that we think that social media is real life, when actually we are all performing. But young kids and teenagers don’t have that sense that it’s not what a human is supposed to look like. I grew up watching movies with super good looking movie stars and never experienced that feeling because I knew that it was all make believe. I stoped following a bunch of Instagram accounts because looking at this perfect people was making me feel like shit… I know follow mostly people that show a more human side of themselves. Great conversation
Most people aren't taught how to find and evaluate information though, this is how we get so many people falling for conspiracy theories and MLM, they find SOME information but they aren't able to understand it isn't credible
My sister in law joined Young Living. She used money for rent without telling my brother to keep up her PV to stay enrolled. When I wouldn’t join and told her why she gave my emails and phone to her upline and they added me to a ton of scam lists by putting in my info to a bunch of random “free gift card” sites. I can’t change my number either because of my contract. They ended up losing their house and have a storage unit with them. They got into a new apartment and she did it again. My brother had to start paying all the bills and kick her off his credit cards and bank accounts. Finally, she couldn’t make PV and Young Living ended her seller contract. Now she’s trying to join a new MLM about Keto Coffee. My brother is telling her he wont pay for it right now, but I know he’ll cave. It breaks my heart. And her MLM came between her and all of our family, alienating not only her from our family but my brother from our family. Worse yet, she never wanted to post about her MLM, so she was in a cult making purchases to stay in the cult, but was able to be convinced it was her fault because she didn’t try to recruit more than 100 people in a year.
I feel like we had similar discussions to this ig face, when boob jobs and cosmetic surgeries really took off a few decades ago, when Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole were inspiring women to get ridiculous hourglass figures.. since then I feel like things have rolled back slightly but has still influenced our body image standards for sure.
I MUST say sorry to you! First video of yours that I saw was about Sex and The City and I called you dumb.I have watched 11 of your videos in a row and now I am a subbie!! I live for your videos and your breakdowns.You are amazing!! Love Tiffanyferg as well!
that "what do you invest in vs what are you cheap about" question has been HAUNTING me since recording lmaoooo. I could not think of an answer!! after spending too much time overthinking it... I'd say I splurge on food (vegan goodies!!) though that's not an investment hahaha and I'm kind of cheap with clothing, but I try to go the cheap(er) secondhand clothes route. I think when it comes to buying stuff, I used to LOVE cheap things, but now when I see wildly low prices I get stuck thinking about how unethically they must have been produced in order to be priced so low, therefore I can't enjoy low prices like I used to / I try not to buy those super cheap things anymore especially since I can afford to pay more now.
(extremely long-winded response for a rather simple question... my usual!!)
I beg to differ, food is an investment in your body's health. Worth it!
Totally agree about cheaply made clothing.
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
W@tzzap
I relate. Not necessarily the answer (though I also have been investing more in healthy food in recent years) but the idea of later overthinking a question I didn't have an answer to until I come up with something lol
it was the greatest pleasure to finally get to chat with you Chelsea!! thank you for having me on :-)
QUEEN!!! You are welcome back any time, it was a joy for me as well
The crossover we were dying for!!!
This has been Tiffany’s dream for so long! So excited this finally got to happen!
I can’t believe this crossover is real omg 😭❤️
Two of my fav RUclipsrs collabing 🤩💖
The crossover I didn’t know I needed but I LOVE IT
Haha, I JUST wrote the same thing! So true though!
sameee
Best crossover of all time.
100%!!
Came here to say this 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
they are THE moment.
Looks like TFD is giving us THE moment every week!
Woah you're here. Thats pretty cool
I quit Instagram and Twitter over a year ago. Never going back. The culture of being obsessed with ppl you don’t know, scrolling, commenting and arguing with other strangers abt celebrities and being so invested in their lives. The lives of strangers. It’s a waste of life. I’m so happy I quit early. I think If I let years go by with me being obsessed with strangers I’d feel like I wasted my life. I’m so happy when I’m out and ppl are talking abt celebrities and I have no idea what they are talking about. Im always like, isn’t it weird that you just spent 20 minutes talking abt or arguing abt someone who doesn’t know you or know of your existence? So weird. Nvr going back. It’s absolutely ridiculous
Agreed. This is sad.
Ya, I am in the process of ending a friendship over many valid issues. But one issue is when she argued with me through text; She cussed me out over Kim Kardashian. I don't have a problem with her but apparently my "friend" hates her. It was a stupid argument because I agree Kim Kardashian the celebrity doesn't know us and we don't know her. So, why waste the energy hating her? That is my opinion anyways
Omg I just quit insta and fb 2 weeks ago and I’m also never going back! I think there’s going to be more of trend of people leaving.
The problem is also, that by giving that you invest energy (emotions), while maybe supporting that person through attention.
Ignorance is often key: for your own health/ life and not furthering their financial gain (media attention).
Obviously this doesn't apply for real issues... (war, dictatorship, environment, human rights violations). You should engage there, but maybe more in real life than on the internet so much.
Can we please go back to calling them *"Pyramid Schemes"* ?
It's got a much better ring to it than MLMs 🤣🤣
Pyramid is an oversimplification tho, never found it appropriate. It is more of a tree-like structure
@@matematicarka 🌲🌴🌳😉
@@LifeofKairo Destroyed!
Ok, so I don't think we should because the people who are into them do this deliberately obtuse thing where they "think" that we are referring to pyramid schemes by legal definition only (a definition Amway spent a lot of money on to make sure it doesn't include MLMs) so they see it as us flaunting our ignorance and does nothing to progress the conversation.
I'll admit in my angrier moments I've called them pyramid schemes by every definition but the one Amway bought.
I always read it as men loving men since that's what I associated it with in the first place
I like that there’s been a lot of youtubers lately, but would it be possible to bring in someone not a commentary youtuber? Id be really interested in hearing from someone in healthcare, since most young people don’t understand their healthcare options, what it costs to access them, and the really complex healthcare system that exists in the U.S.
They could also invite healthcare youtubers(doctors, nurses,etc who do youtube), there are plenty of them
@@GlamGoddes101 yeah, totally! Like the 2 mental health therapists/youtubers that have been on the show. It think it’s just be great to have someone whose primary occupation isn’t cultural commentary, since there are a lot of different episodes on that already.
I am thinking about Dr Bernard (chubbyemu/Heme Review) now.
Yes and the over 50 crownld
This
Tiffany finally got to meet her idol she’s been talking about this for YEARS! I love to see it
I was briefly involved in a big MLM company years ago. While there are a lot of negative things about my experience with MLM, one positive thing is it actually taught me how to say no to other MLMs by using the "script" I was taught by this MLM to sell the company to others. Sharing this to hopefully help others as well. Basically, it boils down to 3 things:
1. No, I have no need for your products right now.
2. I am not interested in joining and turning it into my business/side hustle.
3. I can't think of anyone in my circle of influence right now that would be interested in your products or would be interested in starting a business.
I usually tell the MLM recuiter these statements together as soon as I have confirmed they are with an MLM company so that it gives them less of an opportunity to convince you to buy or "invest". It also tells the recruiter that they aren't going to get anything out of you and that their time is better spent trying to convince someone else.
After these 3 statements, MLM people usually have nothing else to say and will leave me alone :)
I say "no and please don't ask me again"
If I say "no, because..." They will try to solve the reason or ask again later. A firm no is all that is needed.
"No" is a complete sentence. If they try to push after hearing "no', then block and ignore them.
Good tips ! I did the "because" and they have an answer ready for every because
TFD, could you get Mama Doctor Jones for an interview? Women's health is so incredibly important and we don't get educated enough on it!
I would absolutely LOVE to know how Bella Hadid actually feels about the way she looks. Like is she happy? Does she feel pretty? What does it physically feel like for her to touch her own face?
Love the part about young people not looking at their bank statements. It's amazing how easy money can disappear when we don't pay attention.
For sure!
I think a part of the MLM hook is that people think that they could be the 1% that doesn't lose money, similarly in a wider sense as to how people buy into the American dream more generally
Seeing RUclipsrs I admire being as confused by tiktokers as I am is one of my favourite topics!
Oh my gosh Tiffany Ferg and TFD? YES!!!
They really did slap Carla Bruni's face on Bella Hadid. The sad thing is Bella was never ugly, she was a very normal looking teenager
the dopamine i got seeing the thumbnail....best crossover ever of 2021 so far. THANK YOU LADIES!!!!!!
Diving a little further into how Tiffany said that MLM promotion videos dismiss legitimate critiques of MLMs, I think it's tied to the technique people who spread misinformation use - they just say "other" sources are not credible (with no real backup of those arguments), and then afterwards, they can just say whatever they want that goes against information that's been actually vetted and widely available (eg, Flat Earth movement, virus conspiracies, etc)
My husband and I have had many conversations about face filters. We have decided it’s best not to use them in excess, especially for our daughters. A cat filter every now and then is fun, but I definitely don’t want my daughter to start having body issues.
I can't believe my two universes have collided. I didn't even know you two were aware of each other's existence!
This entire commentary is brilliant, amazing and necessary. Your scathing rebuke of MLMs and how the particular business model preys on women is epic. Why, WHY are all of my internet ads now for MLMs??? WHYYYYYY????
I literally did not want this video to end. I could listen to you two talk all day - such great food for thought!
27:30 Yes! CHOICE FEMINISM is really flawed... First not every woman has choice, choice is a privilege, and second we need to recognize that our choices are influenced by our environment, patriarchy, influencers.. Yet it's still important to recognize that choice has always been the way women emancipate, we need to find that balance
So many great conversations! I really liked the one on girl bosses. I hate the noise out there that working a 9-5 job means you can't be happy. I see this not only through MLMs but other spaces online too. I 100% agree wages should be higher across the board, but being able to "love what you do" is a privilege. Starting a business or changing careers isn't accessible if you make little money, are in debt, or have goals outside of professional ones. I really appreciate TFD for always acknowledging this. It's helped me be happier and not look towards my job as my only sense of fulfillment.
The best thing I did was come to the realization that online beauty standards are still very eurocentric and that is why I do not fit the standard. The online beauty standards are so damaging to women of color because women of color are rarely the ones being looked at. Even more so dark women of color.
To the point of MLMs I always debunk their claims publicly. My cousin posted about a low calorie coffee and a mentioned to her that a 8oz cup of coffee is 2 calories and I didnt know how much lower you could go.
You might love khadija mbowe’s videos especially her IG face video
@@Hillary429 it's honestly kind of disappointed me that they failed to acknowledge the different experiences of women of color.
Playing the race card again but like what could i expect?
I don’t think the look is actually Eurocentric when you see people in Europe. It’s not what they look like. It’s not what they aspire for. I think the new look doesn’t look like anyone group but a blend of features that wouldn’t normally exist together. Granted, it occurs in a certain shade range. But that shade is wider than “white”. Which I find interesting.
The saddest part of MLMs is the people who just keep going back. My mom has been involved in at least 4, I was a kid for the first 3 and didn't really know what was going on, but looking back as an adult I remember how much product piled up that I now realize wasn't sold and is lost money for my family. She joined one while I was in college and I tried to talk to her about it, but she was really resistant.
My mom too, she's in consistent denial about it despite the many many videos on that one specifically.
I will say, that was the one really "nice" thing about Rodan and Fields compared to other MLMs, back when I was in it at least (I assume they haven't changed the business model). You never had to buy product to then try to resell it. You were always encouraged to have your customers order online and have their products shipped directly to them. Anything you had shipped to yourself was either your own personal use items or else sample items you wanted to use for giveaways or whatever. It still had many of the other unpleasant features of most MLMs, but at the very least, I didn't have piles of unsold products when I finally gave it up.
So thankful I didn’t have access to photo filters growing up.. I stopped wearing makeup because I could tell I no longer recognized my naked face as my true self identity.. can’t imagine how much body dysmorphia I would be battling if I was constantly using filters
In my experience, the worst part about MLMs was the blame and shame when you fail and can't afford to keep "investing." I went to a Mary Kay training thing as a new consultant and they tried to convince us that if you keep picking yourself up and are willing to work hard, it'll pay off. And it didn't stop at the implication of the opposite, it was explicitly said! About 2 months later, I had to gift or throw away the whole stock and say a silent prayer to my pride and the money I'd lost.
Tiffany: I don't want to shit on teen girls we would all have done it at that age they're just having fun
Tfd: "their brains are porridge" 🙃😂
Wasn't it «poreous»? Makes more sense.
No, they definitely said, "porridge". Like, mush brains.
As a man who worked in an MLM that pitched Verizon fios I really felt the section about those co-workers not being your friends... I remember quitting and going to say goodbye to people only for one of the higher ups to stop me and make me feel bad for being a quitter.... smh... very toxic work environment 😒
I love it when my favourite youtubers randomly get together
Instagram face makes me think of that one YA 'sci-fi' lit series "uglies" by scott westerfeld. Kind of predictive actually.
Literally my thought too
Side note, check out his other books, he's a fantastic author
I was thinking that and also the folks from District 1 in Hunger Games. So detached from the rest of us in the other districts just trying to survive.
@@momacdonald1 especially during covid, so many parallels
Oh yeah I loved those books
@@Hillary429 for real. It has been a surreal experience to see the District 1 mentality play out irl, especially on SM.
RE: MLMs, I found a fascinating deep-dive Podcast series about them at the beginning of the pandemic. It's called The Dream, and I think they did a full 2 seasons on it. It is jaw dropping. They go into the entire history. They even have someone on their team attend one of those conventions, and what she observes is both sad (for the folks on the bottom) and shameful(from the ones on top). They also get into the wellness industry (crystals n shit). RE: girlboss culture too, totally reminded me of that episode of Shrill when she goes to that the WAHAM conference!
I also want to say, learning more about MLMs and the growth of the wellness industry (think, goop), has made me more self-aware about how "feminism" is a tool for capitalism/consumption, and ultimately attempting to bankrupt me lol. I mean, walking into the wellness section of Anthropologie used to be a freaking drug to me, and I can't say I wouldn't be tempted today. I'm not saying you shouldn't want candles, crystals, lotions,etc ever, but it's interesting to see how the style changes over time. Like nowadays there is a huge focus on the mystical feminine, specifically astrology, which I have a lot of issues with, especially with so many people profiting off being professional bs'ers...IMO
Goop is an mlm? Wow
@@faithzani6442 I think they’re referencing the popularity of goop as one of the reasons “wellness culture” is so big and extensive now, not that it’s an mlm.
Gen-X TikTok has literally changed my life. You definitely get out of it what you want. I am 47, the people my age that are making content are amazing! I enjoy it so much. I have found a very supportive, creative, welcoming community on TT.
Their algorithm is a modern marvel, everyone wants to know how they do it
Same, I got in the right part of TikTok where people are fun, supportive and nice. I think that is what is keeping it going.
This is a great conversation. Followed Tiffany ages ago and am amazed how much her channel has grown.
Glad I found this channel too!
I quit Instagram years ago after having my first baby when I realized it was compulsive scrolling with no benefit to my life. Not that it’s the same for everyone but it’s worth asking if you’re actually enjoying using a type of social media.
For mlms, I think it's important to think about someone's experience is just like a cult. They aren't aware of their predator behavior because they've been manipulated into believing that mlm is what they're told. It doesn't mean we should ignore it and give them excuses, but I think people aren't going to see the actual truth until they experience it and take time to listen and research about mlms. And it's terrible, but we all know that humans in general won't listen to someone if you're not wanting to hear it. And that's why I think awareness online and sharing your experience is SO important.
And I have so many friends who have no idea what mlms are still - it blew my mind. But we have to continue sharing info and stories with our loved ones before they become interested in the business.
Make a note to my trader Brian Armstrong on a good trading investment
+=1=5=0=8=3=0=1=4=9=8=1
W a s a p p
I believe the reason that anti-MLM content stays within the anti-MLM community, and doesn't reach further, is simply because of how social media works : it shows what you interact with. It's how people in MLMs get swept into other MLMs: once they start interacting with MLM content, that's the content that see; which probably includes videos that 'debunk' anti MLM content. It really isn't discussed enough how hard it is to break social media echo chambers. They are basically like being in a cult: its hard to see the outside when you're in it.
As someone who has had years in an MLM due to family pressure, I don’t think you realize how unaware people are of the capitalist structures and exploitation that underlay MLMs; years into building the network, some people simply continue on hope and are blind to financial losses due to the MLM. My close family spent a decade climbing out of poverty and a debt hole and there was very little hope we had in anything but the promise of having our own business (the MLM). I am also a terrible salesman and got out of the MLM only to be labeled a traitor and “how could you do this to your family?” I’m glad in the end of the video you came back around to making sure not to victim-blame.
Also, I don’t think you realize how much money can be lost when starting a traditional non-MLM business. When you frame a MLM’s losses in that light, you’ll start to get a sense of why people don’t just “wake up” to how they’re being exploited and how they are exploiting others.
Yassss TIFFANY! You are pulling some top tier RUclipsrs for this podcast, we love to see it!!!
this collaboration is what we all needed to start the week
YESSSSS
Absolutely love this episode, great job!! I would totally watch a podcast where it was just Chelsea and Tiffany talking about different things every episode.
“I feel like in America there’s ten thousand things that take people’s righteous frustration and desperation with a social safety net that fails them at every turn and channels it into the most unproductive outlet. ‘You’re angry that you’re unemployed and have no options to help feed your family? Come and join this scammy period scheme!' Like, 'Come and join QAnon!’ " - Chelsea
I have some thoughts
For a really long time beauty have been the most important thing for women
That, obviosly, came from patriarchy
And when feminists appeared and this movement of "women are not just a pretty thing" became more popular, beauty companies and corporations saw an opportunity in this, because when they say "you can do whatever you want with your body" they mean "here are the products we can sell you and become even more rich"..so that "girl boss" shit is really messed up. When they say "we're all beautiful and unique", there's always a girl who thinks "all but me", and you can't convince her otherwise
She can't see beauty in her
So what I'm trying to say is the whole concept of "everyone is beautiful" is damaging, even with the best intentions
But "I'm not beautiful-and it's ok" is the way to go
Sounds like body neutrality versus body positivity
I gave up on health coaching and furthering my health education because of these “girl bosses”. My voice drowns in the field due to the amount of misinformation they spew.
Yup, same here!!
That sucks.
That's sad. An actually qualified coach would be a breath of fresh air.
I was 17 or 18 when I was marketed a MLM scheme by my friend. At that time also I had the brain to see through it and realise something was fishy. But many of my classmates still fell for it.
It's so obvious that it is a scam.
This was really enjoyable especially as a Tiffany Ferg fan. The whole face changing thing is sad because obviously they can, you have bodily autonomy, but it makes me wonder how long it would've taken figures like Kylie Jenner and Bella Hadid to love themselves how they naturally are, if they hadn't grown up wealthy. Most regular people can't just go and change themselves, even then it might just be a nose job or breast augmentation, but most normal people don't become unrecognizable.
These collaborations are awesome! Please keep them coming!
This whole video perfectly captures the problems I have with social media: 90~95% of all content and the people involved in it is not real. It’s all a work, and kids are uncritically eating it up.
Two intelligent women putting things in perspective for me! Thank you for doing this collab
The “handsome squidward”comment! 🤣 I remember that face
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
W@tzzap
Really dug this collab since Ive been following you both for a while. I answer in the same way that Tiffany does. It starts with an answer, but then philosophical counterpoint...and another counterpoint we have to acknowledge etc.
My problem with MLMs and people in them is where is the line between being a victim and personal responsibility. My mom decided to sell creative memories in 2009 when we almost lost our house. She could’ve just gone back to being a legal secretary but no she decided to put us farther in debt. So frustrating.
This is the crossover I’ve been WAITING FOR FOR YEARS
I LOVE LISTENING TO SMART PEOPLE SPEAK
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
W@tzzap
Handsome Squidward really got me
I have been binging your content all day. I truly appreciate the self awareness from you and your guests.
YASSSS! Love Tiffany's viewpoints on all things related to social media culture!
You guys are killing it with getting great guests!!! Excited for this conversation
MLMs are the worse there is absolutely no value in them
49 year old mama here. This video was so educational for me. I’ve never heard of any of the people you mentioned... except the Kardashians. What stood out to me was when you said something about teenagers minds being mush. As a mother of a teenager and a 20 year old, I disagree. I think teens are amazing young people who are capable of so much. I think they are often limited by cultural standards and the minimum things we expect from them. We encouraged my adult son in all his interests. He ended up playing around with a RUclips channel for a while. But he also became a 2nd shooter for a successful wedding photographer at 16. He was collecting toys for Toys for Tots Christmas campaigns. He was organizing youth events at church. He then volunteered at events for a company where he was later hired as an intern for 2 years. He is almost done with college, worked as an RA and a tour guide, and done another internship by 20. He has a woman he adores and has so much fun in life. He has savings, no college loans, and knows how to spot and turn down MLM opportunities. I don’t say this to brag (yet I’m so proud of my son), but young people are amazing and capable of so much. So to young people, I say, don’t limit yourself!! Ask older people you admire lots of questions. Learn, try, figure out what you are good at, and don’t let people put limits on you due to your age!
I'm sure it's not what you meant but just in case it is, can we get rid of this idea that stay at home moms can't find work or are not very hireable. A lot of us have degrees and jobs with good references before choosing to become a SAHM. The issue isn't that we can't find work or are not very hireable, it's that some SAHMs want to make an income while still getting to stay at home with our children. That's why MLMs prey on SAHMs
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
W@tzzap
I dont think its the best mindset to say "I no longer understand the younger generation" because it can make you think that they aren't worth trying to understand and you never will. But you might understand and staying open minded to them will keep you curious in life and always wanting to understand other people.
I think what she means is she doesn't have the first hand experience to understand the current youngest generation, as compared to the culture she grew up in and can understand at a very close level. When it stops being part of your experience you have to really look into many aspects that you weren't exposed to and might not even know exist, and it becomes more complex, you also clearly have the mindset of an adult which is not the same as being a kid and teen experiencing current popular culture. We can understand them at some level but not like we understand our own generational experiences.
Best Monday interview of the year so far!!
Audibly gasped at how excited I am to watch this
Been binging both of your channels the last couple weeks. So happy to see this duo
Hear me out: drug dealing is the ultimate MLM. Only the folks at the top make any real money, to grow you need to recruit those under you. I guess the only difference is a product people actually want or end up dependent upon due to addictions.
Lmao but that is the point, drugs don't need marketing, they sell themselves, so it's not an MLM lol
Drugs (no matter their side effects) have a demand for the product. Ugly leggings or Saran Wrap for weight loss do not.
I wanted to enter something a friend and I explored recently re-plastic surgery. As women, and non-binary people there is so much we do to present outselves in the world aesthetically. But one thing we noted is is you put something like: fake nails and fake eyelashes and micro blading at odds with something like lip fillers or lypo, you kind of find the root of the question: who guides these industries and who are they for. I know when I see for profit plastic surgeons they are mostly men and mostly white men, and they almost always try to upswell you on more and more and more things that are wrong with you. Make up artists, nail artists, facial tattoo artists, aestheticians are mostly women and queer folks, all of whom I have seen in my lifetime and a: they are priced according to outcome, and I go out of those interactions hyped up by the interaction and feeling really special and important and in community
I could listen to her talk all day :) Such a great conversation!
Regarding filters and edited/unedited images, I follow some people that show the before/after on themselves. It feels so much less icky than the ones that are tearing down the celebs. I like Danea Mercer. Seeing what ACTUAL SKIN looks like on Instagram has improved the quality of my life so much
It would be interesting for Tiffany to see Grackle (Grace) here on RUclips. She used to be a model and now she has a RUclips and she just graduated culinary school. She shattered every preconceived notion I had about models and beauty. I would encourage everyone to check her out.
SO excited for this collab. Can’t even describe how much 💖💖💖
My least favorite style mlm is the forex mlm, where they convince you that you’re learning to “invest” while almost all of the money is in the downline. 🙃
I was so uncomfortable when an acquaintance reached out to pitch me her MLM (it was the first time anyone had ever tried to involve me) that I completely ghosted her. I was so anxious about whether or not I should tell her it was an MLM--and I already knew I wouldn't buy anything from her--so I stopped taking her calls and after six months I have still not texted her back ': )
It's amazing how I have been a subscriber of this channel even though it seems like it's way outside my usual bubble. I have to google almost every name dropped here and I have only known one of your guests before seeing them on your show. Weird, but refreshing, honestly.
There is a huge male element of mlms that people really ignore that traces back to the early mlms like Amway, and I think that exploring that would help people unpack the way that mlms thrive.
Ugh I find SO many LulaRoe leggings and t-shirt dresses when I'm thrifting at Goodwill lol
I'm so happy you got Tiffany! Woohooo!
Love this crossover. My next guest request would be Hannah Louise Poston because she created her channel essentially to process her bad money management 😅
You guys have such good chemistry and the conversation feels so natural. Good job!
TWO OF MY FAVORITE RUclips QUEENS
I was in an MLM for about a year, and yes, the sales tactics they teach each other were really off-putting. It was a pretty gross feeling when I joined and was added to the group chats to see how they talked about recruiting people and realized that I was once one of the many people that they talked about like that. I do have a few friends who have been genuinely pretty financially successful in MLMs. But I just really do not like the business model, I do not like the sales tactics, I don't like the fact that their products are pretty much all overpriced. It's just all intentionally made worse than it should be.
Thank you for doing this crossover that I didn’t even know I needed. I would love a part 2 where you talk about how we women are targeted to buy things. I think this topic deserves a deep dive with regards to culture (Tiffany) and finance (Chelsea)
i cant wait to start calling out mlm people on social media! thanks for the idea chelsea! this was the best crossover!!!
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
W@tzzap
yes!!!! i didn't know I needed this but i stan both of you guys.
OH MY GOSH ITS HAPPENING!!! Guys! It’s happening!
I recently spent $7k on Invisalign (could never afford the dentist growing up.) I didn’t really think about it at the time, but how much of that decision was based off of what I felt others perceived. I had a huge gap. I don’t completely regret it but it was a lot of money for something that I definitely did not need.
Well you only get one set of teeth. And having crooked teeth causes problems long term especially if your bite is not even. So don’t beat yourself up. I say your teeth is something you should try to do preventative care etc etc. I mean once you lose them their gone. You can get fake ones but they won’t be the same
Omg tiffany is so underrated! Love her
What is different in this age is that we think that social media is real life, when actually we are all performing. But young kids and teenagers don’t have that sense that it’s not what a human is supposed to look like. I grew up watching movies with super good looking movie stars and never experienced that feeling because I knew that it was all make believe. I stoped following a bunch of Instagram accounts because looking at this perfect people was making me feel like shit… I know follow mostly people that show a more human side of themselves. Great conversation
41:14 I’ll need to find this again. Great podcast, listening to it a second time around 🥳🙏🏼
Please have her back on the show. I love this.
People do have access to information.. lots of free information if you put in the ground work. Lots of basic things can help you move foward...
Most people aren't taught how to find and evaluate information though, this is how we get so many people falling for conspiracy theories and MLM, they find SOME information but they aren't able to understand it isn't credible
My Dudes!! 🥰..... What a wonderful treat. To see two of my favorite young RUclips Ladies!!
My sister in law joined Young Living. She used money for rent without telling my brother to keep up her PV to stay enrolled. When I wouldn’t join and told her why she gave my emails and phone to her upline and they added me to a ton of scam lists by putting in my info to a bunch of random “free gift card” sites. I can’t change my number either because of my contract. They ended up losing their house and have a storage unit with them. They got into a new apartment and she did it again. My brother had to start paying all the bills and kick her off his credit cards and bank accounts. Finally, she couldn’t make PV and Young Living ended her seller contract. Now she’s trying to join a new MLM about Keto Coffee. My brother is telling her he wont pay for it right now, but I know he’ll cave. It breaks my heart. And her MLM came between her and all of our family, alienating not only her from our family but my brother from our family. Worse yet, she never wanted to post about her MLM, so she was in a cult making purchases to stay in the cult, but was able to be convinced it was her fault because she didn’t try to recruit more than 100 people in a year.
Excited to see Tiffany here
I feel like we had similar discussions to this ig face, when boob jobs and cosmetic surgeries really took off a few decades ago, when Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole were inspiring women to get ridiculous hourglass figures.. since then I feel like things have rolled back slightly but has still influenced our body image standards for sure.
Make a note 📝 to my trader Gilbert on a good trading investment
+ = 1 = 2 = 0 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 8 = 8 = 3 = 5 = 1
Financial Education is so important. Thank you for the videos.
Thank you so much for creating this content! I feel whole, sane and understood.
I MUST say sorry to you! First video of yours that I saw was about Sex and The City and I called you dumb.I have watched 11 of your videos in a row and now I am a subbie!! I live for your videos and your breakdowns.You are amazing!! Love Tiffanyferg as well!