There are not only snapchat streaks there are quick adds of people that you dont even know or have your phone number. Also now there are open story's of other strangers that aren't even public figures to make you stay on the platform.
It’s time for change. As a 26 yr old, I recognize that digital addiction is destroying my friends, my brother, my parents, my community, and myself. I’m sick of it. It’s time we do something and start reforming this.
I agree. I’m starting with myself. Like some people who count calories (macros). I do something a little easier. I write down the title of every video I watch whether it’s a 10 second clip, reel, RUclips clip, tv show, Netflix, etc. It really makes me think twice about watching something. I’m at #314 as of today. The majority are podcast I watch on RUclips. I don’t think any of us know exactly how many reels we scroll through when we are addicted to our phones. I’m actually perfectly okay with this number. Im not the best reader, but I love listening and experimenting
So true. My teen son visits my mother (grandma) and she plays games on her phone … she’s accustomed to living alone and that has become her distraction and dopamine fix. Sadly, we’re all guilty of it and I notice and intentionally observe this while around family friends and out in public. It’s screens in front on their face in place of the human whose life is limited in that space 😢 We can’t let them use us or our children as pawns …
What are you reading on social media?? Its community events, grassroot groups, etc etc that are also on social media. Not saying your not seeing the other stuff you mentioned! But I'm reality its not going anywhere anytime soon!! 🤦🏾♂️ I e made my peace with it by making sure Im picking ane choosy about looking at causes and needs versus what jus appeals to me aesthetically!
I am Gen X and don´t use IG, FB, TT just watch very few content creators on youtube and I can say I am very happy, my activities: gardening, hiking, mountain bike, pet sitting, cooking and yoga :)
Xennial here, I have a Facebook account I basically stopped using years ago. I’ve never had twitter, IG, snap chat etc and I think one reason I’ve never been depressed is I don’t use any of these services, the other having friends I see in person, and analog hobbies like hiking, skiing etc
Same here. Insta etc bores me to death. It’s so shallow and so fake. The “right” use of RUclips helped me to start my own business which in return made me a wholesome happy person, which copies down to my family. But as a 40plus person I lived in the real world first, so I know how to deal with the fake one.
Quitting Instagram made my panic and anxiety attacks go away completely. I also have exponentially less violent random thoughts in response stressors. Best thing I’ve ever done for my mental well being.
Same here. Left Twitter in about 2020, FB in 2013. Limited YT now. Mental health improved drastically just by unplugging. The whole ecosphere of social media is poison for the mind.
I’m older (grandma) and curious. Do you think it was the total quitting of Instagram altogether that made your panic attacks stop, or was it not watching specific content that made them stop? In other words, could you have just stopped looking at a certain type of content there and felt better, or was it really necessary to stop watching the app completely to feel good?
I’m an ER physician. I can’t get my adolescent or teen patients to look at me when I speak to them. Parents seem timid even asking their children to get off their phone while the doctor is speaking to them. It’s such an issue.
Why would a parent be timid about asking their child anything? It’s this kind of behavior from parents that has let this problem get out of hand. Who’s in charge? Sounds like the kids are. Unreal
We're the last generation who has a frame of reference for what life was like before/after cell phones and internet and I feel it's our duty to at least make an effort to show the value of both not relying on technology as well as the beauty and power it can offer us (personally and professionally). When younger generations are growing up valuing these things, they'll soon be parents raising their own kids instilling and/or condoning the same values.
I’m so grateful I listened to my gut all those years ago. I have a 14 year old, 12 year old and 7 year old. I decided years ago no phone or social media until 18 and so far I’m doing great, and gaining confidence every day. My children are starting to notice the negative effects it is having on their friends, even making different friend choices bc of phone and media addictions. My older two have an Apple Watch that allows them to text and call family members only. This message needs to get out. I wish more parents had the guts to at least put some restrictions on their children. Even parents of children having bad problems feel like they can’t pull back. It’s so sad 😢
There are more of us with younger kids coming to the same realization. I think the picture will be different for my first grader as she comes up through the grades.
I wasn't really much of a social media person in high school and I remember one time I went to a party and like a week later even the friends that I literally drove to the party with(my car) didn't remember me being there because I didn't post anything because I didn't have IG or snap. These people aren't my friends anymore and I'm glad.
Ugh. No social media is one thing but they can still Google and get on sites that will ruin the innocence of a child in 5 minutes and there's no going back from that.
As a father, I lead by example and show them life outside or off the phones. I try my hardest as a parent to introduce them to everything but the digital world. In an age that kids can’t be kids it’s very disheartening
I listen to long form podcasts while working out at the gym and hiking. I read at night. I quit social media 2 yrs ago. Life is way better and so is my mental health and self esteem.
Philosophy, history, writing and religion need to come back into society. They aren’t worthless. They are essential to understanding ourselves and how to become better than those before us.
The rule in my house, can’t get a phone until get a job. My oldest is 26 and my youngest is 10. My children are very independent and creative! I allowed them to have iPads but my husband and I place parental controls and limitations. It’s a privilege to have an electronic device. I teach families in the practice I work to place boundaries! Kids need this!
Alright, this video was all ot took. No more social media. Even if its just for "editing" purposes. No more! A phone is a tool, not for lesure. Thank you guys for getting this out here. It matters for our future. ❤
My mother is PE teacher (the kind who at 50+ still shows and does everything). About 15 years ago she wrote a paper about Posture flaws in Basic school. At that time the school she works had a ratio about 3 posture flaws for 10 healthy children in class. By now it has flipped around. Basketball, volleyball, squats, skip rope etc are a struggle to teach cause the coordination has dropped significantly, and continues dropping. The national plan for PE subject has been made easier constantly to accommodate yet can't keep up with the drop and demands some creative thinking to even come close to achieving. By definition children aren't children anymore.. but more like young looking old people.
@@suzanneemerson2625 Because an active child doesn't have time to be on phone. And younger years imitate older years. As a tangible example: the moment the school (my mother's in this case) got upper years that were into soccer, they asked to be allowed soccer games during breaks/free period in the gym or field and agreed to self managing condition (schedule and inclusion of different age groups, beside their own, in different periods). So it spread to younger years and became default activity during outside of lessons. It didn't happen randomly though. That upper year group is used to going to regional soccer competitions, some of them had taken part of student body activities for years (networking, team dynamics, social media as a tool, negotiation skills etc). The moment they graduate and next upper years are more passive the phone screen time will increase again. Unless school will establish the no phones in school rule.
My neighbor has a 10-year-old boy.He has 2 phones and is constantly on both at the same time.Looking at different things. When I say something to her about it she looks at me and says he'll be okay. Very sad.
58:10 I'm from East Asia and I assure you, the social media problem is huge. As a collectivist society, feelings of isolation is a great fear even if people don't express openly. Almost all teens here are addicted to phones, obsessed with body image, status, and trending information. Mental health and suicide rates are going up like never before and we've hit OECD number 1 on the charts for suicide, especially among children. Hate crimes, bullying, suicide and mental health - all of these are on the rise and particularly among children and young adults and I believe apps and content ARE the direct source. Let our kids BE kids! They ARE the future.
Thank you. I really appreciate imputei really have opportunity to know about....Best wishes to continue to Speak Up. Reguards American in the UK (on line since 1993)
I halfway agree on the videogame topic, mostly because of the way game design has changed. Back before online play was wide spread and games were more compartmentalized to one console, one location and local split screen multiplayer. Back then games were designed to be ENGAGING over moment to moment gameplay, now they're designed to be ADDICTING over a much longer timeframe. That's a fundamentally different approach to how games are designed and played which is incredibly predatory and unhealthy.
Be the Mean Mom and Dad. It’s ok to set limits and say NO. My kids are college age now. They weren’t allowed to have a social media or smartphone until high school, and we always extremely limited their TV and computer time. They got a budget of a couple hours on Saturday/Sunday for media not related to homework, they could do gaming etc. They are thanking me now for not encouraging the addiction and they can see how devastating it is for their peers.
As a high school teacher, I experience the lack of connection every day among our students with each other. When phones are out, people are non-existent
My 60 year old mom is more addicted to her phone than i am as a 30 year old millennial, it's not just kids who've been sucked in, i agree though it's much worse for kids, i'm proud that my sister and her husband haven't let my nephews have phones yet, their oldest who's in 7th grade just has one of those watches that only lets him contact a handful of people and doesn't have social apps.
All this social media has made us all addict in one way or another. At 71 I’m connected to RUclips in place of TV. I’ve learnt quilting, cooking techniques, gardening styles. My husband watches anything about photography, birding segments, and Unfortunately, also the arrest going through security at airports. My grandsons do gaming all the time and my daughter says that’s the only way that her son can interact with his friends. my granddaughter on the other hand I don’t know what she watches, but I know her phone is always in her hand and so she is actually very socially disconnected to her grandparents, I don’t know if that’s abnormal but anyways that’s the way it is. Great podcast and yes this is another addicted connection.
Great episode as always Rich! Jonathan’s new book has been an invaluable tool, that I hope will prompt us all to reevaluate the pressures and routines our children face daily. The analogy you discussed about how we grew up in the 90’s is a distant memory in a new day of technology and social media. The street lights illuminating warning after a day of childhood debauchery no longer serves as the curfew reminder it once represented. A few things I would add into the equation of where we find ourselves today... I've spent the past 5 years researching childhood suicide and patterns for a documentary project. There is a disturbing connection between adolescent mental health and family dynamics, particularly in single-parent or divorced households. These settings often lack crucial emotional and logistical support, exacerbating mental health issues and highlighting the need for stable, nurturing environments for our kids. Think of it this way - divorce rates in the USA are 35-50% for first marriages and 60-70% for second ones-adding complexity to family dynamics. Coupled with the rise of a "phone-based childhood," these factors create a challenging landscape not only for our children but also for their digitally-native parents. Many young parents, having never known a world without the internet, unknowingly perpetuate a cycle of sleep deprivation, attention fragmentation, and social isolation, all of which Jonathan discusses in his book. These factors are pivotal in the deterioration of mental health among youths and, arguably, adults as well. Our brains are simply not equipped to handle the relentless barrage of information, stimulation, and interruptions that characterize modern adult life. However, I remain cautiously optimistic that through collective efforts from parents, educators, and policymakers, we can address this crisis and protect our children’s mental health. Thank you both for your vital contributions to this conversation. Cheers, Kolby
Been reading your books since happiness hypothesis and tipping point. Thank you for spreading the results of all the research you have been doing over the years. Thank you.
Another great conversation given by Rich ,who I believe to be one of the best interviewers of our time...giving answers to the pointed questions allowing the topics to elaborate so we can fully understand...very insightful and informative...your podcast always leaves me inspired Thank You
Timestamp: 25:14 appreciative of the conversation about chemical addiction versus behavioral addiction. Mahalo for this conversation and the legacy of your work, both of you!
This is some horrifying shit… scary proposition for us as parents, specially since we didn’t grow up with this type of technology at our fingertips… we’re in uncharted waters
In regards to the parenting if things are such a problem, just take them away. It seems pretty simple to me. When I was 17, I recall a situation where I mouthed off to my father. It was a disrespectful exchange. Well, when I woke up the next morning, my car was up on blocks. Yes my father took the tires off my car and put my vehicle up on cinderblocks. I was stuck until I went back to him and apologized, discussed and cleared up the situation. The entire conflict was extinguished and it never happened again!!!
It's not just kids and teens !!! My 72 yr old retired husband ( I'm now positive he has undiagnosed ambergris) lives on his phone tablet and TV. One would think from his actions that he was a teenaged boy ! It's a mind numbing garbage trap !!!
Thank you for this insightful conversation, Rich and Jonathan Haidt! Addressing the adverse effects of technology and social media on youth mental health is crucial. Your discussion on hyperconnectivity and proposed solutions opens the door to much-needed awareness and action. Looking forward to exploring more ways to support well-being in today's digital age as I continue my work.
I have some next door neighbors who have an 11 year old boy. Our yards are super small, it’s suburbia after all, but when I was a kid, part of my chores would have been to go and cut the grass once every two weeks. I do that now, just how I maintain my yard. Instead of having their 11 year old do it, these people hired a lawn care service at $45 a month to cut approx 800 square feet of rectangular grass. Kids need to learn how to do work, not just play. And learn about rewards for doing it… being able to go play games was always a reward when I was a kid, not the default.
I had a couple friends in high school who all went off social media through a majority of our jr and senior year and just started getting out more doing whatever we could imagine and it saved our lives. We look back at those days as some of our best and it's all because we got off social media and got out.
Gen x here. I haven't used FB for 10 years. It felt toxic to see everyone's opinions on every social and political subject. I could see that it would make me dislike people I would otherwise be OK with. It explains a fair portion of why we're so divided.
Thanks for this, Rich. Super important for moms, dads, educators and goverment decision makers. I hope this does bring people together to help stop all that is happening to our children. It's absolutely terrible and I honestly wish I'd never allowed my young child onto the internet. Very hard to put the poop back into the horse as they say....cheers
We’ve become hyper protective of our kids and monitor them all the time.. but at the same time have decided kids are too much trouble.. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s.. we were absolutely feral..
I have a son who is the Iphone generation. Born 2000. In his teens he would have his friends over and they would sit in their room on their phones and not speak to eachother. What was the point of being together is they weren't connecting
In developmental psychology, it’s called “parallel play,” a type of play in which children are playing adjacent to each other, but not actually with each other. It normally occurs between the ages of 24-30 months of age, as children are developing social skills. Your child and his friends are seriously developmentally delayed. You might want to have him evaluated by a professional child psychologist.
It makes me super frustrated that the school has given my kids Chromebooks to bring home. I do not want that. Why are we pushing this? It does not make their education better in any substantive way, it's just a way for them to try and sneak screen time after bed and the like.
I’m a parent and teacher at a Chromebook district. Have them do their homework at the kitchen table or where you can see them and then turn it off. Set a time and they turn the machine on to you for the night.
@@chocolatemint9225all these school districts were “gifted” computers by the very companies that want to build a brand with the next generation. What data is being collected by the variety of programs that schools require children to use for testing and mind numbing exercises? Books are better, especially for young children.
ok right?! My first grader was given a Chromebook with a game called Prodigy on it. Granted it’s “educational” but my son was 100% addicted to it. Irritable when it was taken away, asked for it all the time, etc. We have a tv with limited screen time but my kids have never been on a tablet or iPad or anything else. I assumed because the school sent it home it must be “ok.” Now I’m deep in research and it compulsory government run schooling and the benefits of homeschooling.
Grow up. Start being a real parent. Sit with your child while he is using his Chromebook, and then put it away when his homework is done. Stop blaming the school because you have raised your child to be a brat, and now you don’t like the results of what you have done. Deal with it.
@@suzanneemerson2625 whoa there...not sure if this comment was intended for me or the OP but...wow. What an aggressive and unnecessary comment. "A real parent"?? "Raised a brat?" Pretty bold statements from a literal stranger reading RUclips comments hahahaha.
Rich, thanks so much for this informative episode! I am gen X and quit social media >8 yr ago. I am 50, and have 2 kids that didn't get cell phones/ computers until 16 and I am so glad I decided to limit their access. I'm a nurse, so affording the technology was not the issue- more so the concern of stranger danger and unhealthy habits of staring at phone when should be doing other activities. I agree with the new recommended age limits for tech for the safety of kids!
I thought that when the internet first came out that we would have world peace and the end of suffering, if we just knew about what was happening, we would do something.
I agree 100% with how the phone/media is negatively impacting our children. I am hesitant to agree with the no cell phone at school rule for very selfish reasons. We have had a couple cases where there was gun fire reported near our school and it was very comforting to get a text that everything was okay. I know those cases are very few and far between, but given all of the school violence, there's always a sense of fear looming over parents; and having a way to communicate with a child quickly does help to assuage some of those fears. I would love to hear how Mr. Haidt would respond to those fears.
Fascinating discussion. It occurred to me that perhaps a way out of this is to remove the child’s unlimited data plan to a limited data plan that will get used up quickly by these apps. The children will get a little exposure but will also learn the lesson of rationing.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. While I have misgivings about some digital habits nowadays (e.g. nonstop texting), I have trouble seeing how exactly it is different now than the video game craze of the late 80s and early 90s. Games like Tetris and Dr Mario were obviously designed to be addictive to everyone ... and they were ... yet I still see those creations as works of art that should be preserved.
I have three small children: ages, 3, 2, and one who will be born next month. One of my biggest fears is “losing them“ to social media and screen addiction. Luckily, my wife and I have chosen to raise them without screens and social media, and many of our friends are of similar thinking. Hopefully this is a trend that keeps gaining traction. In the future, giving a kid your phone might be as socially acceptable as giving them a cigarette, if we all do our job to stigmatize it appropriately.
If you must give your child/tween/teen a phone please, please, please look into companies like Gabb that provided age-appropriate social media free options! We gave out 10 year old a flip phone thinking it would be useless for internet browsing. We were wrong. We switched to a Gabb watch which has no internet connectivity or social media access. Now she's 14 and doesn't want a smartphone because of the effect they have had on her friends and peers.
empathy is an interest in the details of the social system. It is literally systematising. one thing is for sure, men don't understand how women think or how to explain it.
I've been very interested in the effects of herd mentality. Is the over sharing of emotions an example of toxic femininity? Im not sexist nor transphobic, but I am curious in these fringe and marginal effects that seem to have influence over percentages of the population. .. same vein would be the deification of psychopathy in the corporate world, specifically upper management. In light of the obvious nature to capitalism... how effective can self-determination or willpower really be when targeted efforts are made to streamline this dopamine effect in the brain?
I have 4 children who all attend a Waldorf school. I know that not everyone has that privilege, but the schools have a no social media policy through middle school, no phone policy at school and they spend time outside every day, rain or shine. It’s one of the few school pedagogies that applies Dr Haidt’s plan.
It's as simple as listening to your kids. We have a generation old enough to tell us how damaging having free range of the internet at 12. Mine just turned 20, she got out alive, but told me how damaging it was for her. It's all about the money! You will never get rid of it just like all the junk food fed to our kids at school. Best you can do is try and give them alternatives like healthy food and non screen time activities which is only about 20 percent of their lives unfortunately unless you can afford a private school.
I got off Facebook and Twitter 6 or 7 years ago after the 2016 election because of the fire storms and I was tired of spending my time on them. I'm on LinkedIn because I work and want to be connected to people who present relevant events and access training courses. I'm in a photography group on LI and see quality images by professional or good amateur photographers. I'm a trained photographer so seeing a lot of badly composed or executed photos on other platforms doesn't interest me.
I'm not saying that age limits and locking a kids phone up during school aren't helpful. But, we need to assist children and adolescents in setting healthy boundaries with their phones. It's like our drinking culture. Kids go hard at 21 or earlier when they head off to college, military, and adulthood. Restriction isnt enough. Parents need to model better behaviors as well when it comes to social media. It's entire cultural shift around phone/social media culture that needs attention
Totally agree with this, and we also wouldn’t say “let’s show this 15 year old how to drink responsibly.” Once a parent introduces social media (16? 18?) there needs to be a level of healthy modeling and lots of conversation. In the meantime, a parent probably should restrict their access if they’re simultaneously on social ALL the time.
There was a radio ad years ago about a summer camp. The tagline was "Give us your kid, we'll send you back a new one." Unfortunately, they later felt the need to add a disclaimer that it was not literally true. People are too literal minded, or perhaps some parents hoped it was literally true!
Lol I'm 36 now. But even back when I was 23 I remember having the awareness that little children growing up on social media are test rats. And it's sad because no one was even paying attention.
I thought there was a clip where they were discussing online dating apps and how destructive they are for adult men and women...but I can't find that section. Any help would be appreciated!
Excellent interview as usua and guest as usual. BUT, I found a bit of propaganda when talking about "trolls" and "conspiracy theories" and "not sharing my opinions". Where else am I gonna share what I think?
I was able to realize by just looking at the graphics of video games when they first came to computers, it scared me into never playing video games, just for the fact that I would become addicted through competition, living in my moms basement and she doesn't have one.
I wonder what his view is about what is non political journalism - is all the major media outlets non political when it gets money from many addictive consumer products! Drug and food companies are the same companies!
How about taking porn off and out of "social" media....uuumm...ya when did it become legal to potentially expose minors to this from emotional sexual assault to a young developing mind. It's the media companies that market our children and ourselves as well.
What about giving our kids only flip phones until they are 16? But the reality is that kids share social media so the kid with the SmartPhone will share material with your kid.
maybe I didn't understand his stance on Social Security, I hope he didn't mean that I am not entitled to every cent I PAID into social security? It is all I have to live on now.
Not to mention that they are now TAXING our social security! What a NASTY surprise for us who have worked hard and now count on this money. SHAME on our government for stealing from us
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There are not only snapchat streaks there are quick adds of people that you dont even know or have your phone number. Also now there are open story's of other strangers that aren't even public figures to make you stay on the platform.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I have been dying to ask you about where can I buy the water bottles that you use in your podcast.
It’s time for change. As a 26 yr old, I recognize that digital addiction is destroying my friends, my brother, my parents, my community, and myself. I’m sick of it. It’s time we do something and start reforming this.
I agree. I’m starting with myself.
Like some people who count calories (macros). I do something a little easier. I write down the title of every video I watch whether it’s a 10 second clip, reel, RUclips clip, tv show, Netflix, etc.
It really makes me think twice about watching something.
I’m at #314 as of today. The majority are podcast I watch on RUclips. I don’t think any of us know exactly how many reels we scroll through when we are addicted to our phones. I’m actually perfectly okay with this number. Im not the best reader, but I love listening and experimenting
So true. My teen son visits my mother (grandma) and she plays games on her phone … she’s accustomed to living alone and that has become her distraction and dopamine fix.
Sadly, we’re all guilty of it and I notice and intentionally observe this while around family friends and out in public. It’s screens in front on their face in place of the human whose life is limited in that space 😢 We can’t let them use us or our children as pawns …
What are you reading on social media?? Its community events, grassroot groups, etc etc that are also on social media. Not saying your not seeing the other stuff you mentioned! But I'm reality its not going anywhere anytime soon!! 🤦🏾♂️ I e made my peace with it by making sure Im picking ane choosy about looking at causes and needs versus what jus appeals to me aesthetically!
I am Gen X and don´t use IG, FB, TT just watch very few content creators on youtube and I can say I am very happy, my activities: gardening, hiking, mountain bike, pet sitting, cooking and yoga :)
Xennial here, I have a Facebook account I basically stopped using years ago. I’ve never had twitter, IG, snap chat etc and I think one reason I’ve never been depressed is I don’t use any of these services, the other having friends I see in person, and analog hobbies like hiking, skiing etc
You are the exceptions which is great!!! but they are talking about the majority.
Same here. Insta etc bores me to death. It’s so shallow and so fake. The “right” use of RUclips helped me to start my own business which in return made me a wholesome happy person, which copies down to my family. But as a 40plus person I lived in the real world first, so I know how to deal with the fake one.
As a gen z an a failed human, i envy you
Quitting Instagram made my panic and anxiety attacks go away completely. I also have exponentially less violent random thoughts in response stressors. Best thing I’ve ever done for my mental well being.
Same here. Left Twitter in about 2020, FB in 2013. Limited YT now. Mental health improved drastically just by unplugging. The whole ecosphere of social media is poison for the mind.
I’m older (grandma) and curious.
Do you think it was the total quitting of Instagram altogether that made your panic attacks stop,
or was it not watching specific content that made them stop?
In other words, could you have just stopped looking at a certain type of content there and felt better, or was it really necessary to stop watching the app completely to feel good?
Just deleted Snapchat TODAY
I’m an ER physician. I can’t get my adolescent or teen patients to look at me when I speak to them. Parents seem timid even asking their children to get off their phone while the doctor is speaking to them. It’s such an issue.
The United States is now called Toddler Nation Teens and young Adults acting like little Toddlers 🤔
Why would a parent be timid about asking their child anything? It’s this kind of behavior from parents that has let this problem get out of hand. Who’s in charge? Sounds like the kids are. Unreal
We need blame parents not children
@@miadavis-j5wexactly
It truly is sad to see the family disregulation around social media.
It is effectively impacting Adults also
We're the last generation who has a frame of reference for what life was like before/after cell phones and internet and I feel it's our duty to at least make an effort to show the value of both not relying on technology as well as the beauty and power it can offer us (personally and professionally).
When younger generations are growing up valuing these things, they'll soon be parents raising their own kids instilling and/or condoning the same values.
This parent is on board. Thanks Jonathan! No social media for my child.
Same here
Same!!
Instantaneous Wife material achieved.
My sons high school just banned phones during school hours. That is a win for us in New Zealand!
Being a a parent is challenging enough without social media. Now it’s a true battle.
I’m so grateful I listened to my gut all those years ago. I have a 14 year old, 12 year old and 7 year old. I decided years ago no phone or social media until 18 and so far I’m doing great, and gaining confidence every day. My children are starting to notice the negative effects it is having on their friends, even making different friend choices bc of phone and media addictions.
My older two have an Apple Watch that allows them to text and call family members only.
This message needs to get out. I wish more parents had the guts to at least put some restrictions on their children. Even parents of children having bad problems feel like they can’t pull back. It’s so sad 😢
You’re an awesome parent I really mean that!
@@derekspence7241 Thank you. It’s tough when I am the only parent around implementing this.
@@leylaherr2395 kudos to you ma'am for staying firm in parenting.
There are more of us with younger kids coming to the same realization. I think the picture will be different for my first grader as she comes up through the grades.
@@AdoptableDogVideos I pray things get better and parents pull their heads out of their asses. Pardon my French.
I wasn't really much of a social media person in high school and I remember one time I went to a party and like a week later even the friends that I literally drove to the party with(my car) didn't remember me being there because I didn't post anything because I didn't have IG or snap. These people aren't my friends anymore and I'm glad.
😳
Ugh. No social media is one thing but they can still Google and get on sites that will ruin the innocence of a child in 5 minutes and there's no going back from that.
As a father, I lead by example and show them life outside or off the phones. I try my hardest as a parent to introduce them to everything but the digital world. In an age that kids can’t be kids it’s very disheartening
Hands down my biggest addiction is RUclips and especially long form podcasts like this one 🥲
There are worse ways you could spend your time than listening to RRP. LOL
Same and it’s replaced reading for me 😔
Omg yes
I listen to long form podcasts while working out at the gym and hiking. I read at night. I quit social media 2 yrs ago. Life is way better and so is my mental health and self esteem.
Oh no I’m in trouble
Philosophy, history, writing and religion need to come back into society. They aren’t worthless. They are essential to understanding ourselves and how to become better than those before us.
The rule in my house, can’t get a phone until get a job. My oldest is 26 and my youngest is 10. My children are very independent and creative! I allowed them to have iPads but my husband and I place parental controls and limitations. It’s a privilege to have an electronic device. I teach families in the practice I work to place boundaries! Kids need this!
I think you meant 16 not 26? 😅
You guys are like guardian angels. Especially for the younger generation!
Thank you so much Rich and Jonathan.
Alright, this video was all ot took. No more social media. Even if its just for "editing" purposes. No more! A phone is a tool, not for lesure. Thank you guys for getting this out here. It matters for our future. ❤
“lesure” ? No such thing. You made that word up.
My mother is PE teacher (the kind who at 50+ still shows and does everything). About 15 years ago she wrote a paper about Posture flaws in Basic school. At that time the school she works had a ratio about 3 posture flaws for 10 healthy children in class. By now it has flipped around. Basketball, volleyball, squats, skip rope etc are a struggle to teach cause the coordination has dropped significantly, and continues dropping. The national plan for PE subject has been made easier constantly to accommodate yet can't keep up with the drop and demands some creative thinking to even come close to achieving. By definition children aren't children anymore.. but more like young looking old people.
Love your last two sentence.
What does this comment have to do with social media?
@@suzanneemerson2625 Because an active child doesn't have time to be on phone. And younger years imitate older years. As a tangible example: the moment the school (my mother's in this case) got upper years that were into soccer, they asked to be allowed soccer games during breaks/free period in the gym or field and agreed to self managing condition (schedule and inclusion of different age groups, beside their own, in different periods). So it spread to younger years and became default activity during outside of lessons. It didn't happen randomly though. That upper year group is used to going to regional soccer competitions, some of them had taken part of student body activities for years (networking, team dynamics, social media as a tool, negotiation skills etc). The moment they graduate and next upper years are more passive the phone screen time will increase again. Unless school will establish the no phones in school rule.
My neighbor has a 10-year-old boy.He has 2 phones and is constantly on both at the same time.Looking at different things. When I say something to her about it she looks at me and says he'll be okay. Very sad.
58:10 I'm from East Asia and I assure you, the social media problem is huge. As a collectivist society, feelings of isolation is a great fear even if people don't express openly. Almost all teens here are addicted to phones, obsessed with body image, status, and trending information. Mental health and suicide rates are going up like never before and we've hit OECD number 1 on the charts for suicide, especially among children. Hate crimes, bullying, suicide and mental health - all of these are on the rise and particularly among children and young adults and I believe apps and content ARE the direct source. Let our kids BE kids! They ARE the future.
Thank you. I really appreciate imputei really have opportunity to know about....Best wishes to continue to Speak Up. Reguards American in the UK (on line since 1993)
I halfway agree on the videogame topic, mostly because of the way game design has changed. Back before online play was wide spread and games were more compartmentalized to one console, one location and local split screen multiplayer. Back then games were designed to be ENGAGING over moment to moment gameplay, now they're designed to be ADDICTING over a much longer timeframe. That's a fundamentally different approach to how games are designed and played which is incredibly predatory and unhealthy.
Be the Mean Mom and Dad. It’s ok to set limits and say NO. My kids are college age now. They weren’t allowed to have a social media or smartphone until high school, and we always extremely limited their TV and computer time. They got a budget of a couple hours on Saturday/Sunday for media not related to homework, they could do gaming etc. They are thanking me now for not encouraging the addiction and they can see how devastating it is for their peers.
I love Rich’s use of metaphor! Always dropping them in so naturally. “How do we reach across the aisle!”
As a high school teacher, I experience the lack of connection every day among our students with each other. When phones are out, people are non-existent
What subjects do you teach
Thank you “ Rich “ for this PODCAST with “ Professor Jonathan “ ❤😊🙏
My 60 year old mom is more addicted to her phone than i am as a 30 year old millennial, it's not just kids who've been sucked in, i agree though it's much worse for kids, i'm proud that my sister and her husband haven't let my nephews have phones yet, their oldest who's in 7th grade just has one of those watches that only lets him contact a handful of people and doesn't have social apps.
Such an incredibly important conversation. Thank you both!!!
All this social media has made us all addict in one way or another. At 71 I’m connected to RUclips in place of TV. I’ve learnt quilting, cooking techniques, gardening styles. My husband watches anything about photography, birding segments, and Unfortunately, also the arrest going through security at airports. My grandsons do gaming all the time and my daughter says that’s the only way that her son can interact with his friends. my granddaughter on the other hand I don’t know what she watches, but I know her phone is always in her hand and so she is actually very socially disconnected to her grandparents, I don’t know if that’s abnormal but anyways that’s the way it is. Great podcast and yes this is another addicted connection.
I see parents out with their kid and the parent is on their phone ignoring the kid. The kid looks bored and disconnected.
That was very good. Every parent should watch this episode.
Great episode as always Rich! Jonathan’s new book has been an invaluable tool, that I hope will prompt us all to reevaluate the pressures and routines our children face daily. The analogy you discussed about how we grew up in the 90’s is a distant memory in a new day of technology and social media. The street lights illuminating warning after a day of childhood debauchery no longer serves as the curfew reminder it once represented.
A few things I would add into the equation of where we find ourselves today...
I've spent the past 5 years researching childhood suicide and patterns for a documentary project. There is a disturbing connection between adolescent mental health and family dynamics, particularly in single-parent or divorced households. These settings often lack crucial emotional and logistical support, exacerbating mental health issues and highlighting the need for stable, nurturing environments for our kids.
Think of it this way - divorce rates in the USA are 35-50% for first marriages and 60-70% for second ones-adding complexity to family dynamics. Coupled with the rise of a "phone-based childhood," these factors create a challenging landscape not only for our children but also for their digitally-native parents.
Many young parents, having never known a world without the internet, unknowingly perpetuate a cycle of sleep deprivation, attention fragmentation, and social isolation, all of which Jonathan discusses in his book. These factors are pivotal in the deterioration of mental health among youths and, arguably, adults as well.
Our brains are simply not equipped to handle the relentless barrage of information, stimulation, and interruptions that characterize modern adult life.
However, I remain cautiously optimistic that through collective efforts from parents, educators, and policymakers, we can address this crisis and protect our children’s mental health.
Thank you both for your vital contributions to this conversation.
Cheers,
Kolby
Knowledge has become intoxicating
Been reading your books since happiness hypothesis and tipping point.
Thank you for spreading the results of all the research you have been doing over the years.
Thank you.
Thanks for this Rich, voices like Jonathan's are much needed right now, this is a crucial point in time re regulation.
Another great conversation given by Rich ,who I believe to be one of the best interviewers of our time...giving answers to the pointed questions allowing the topics to elaborate so we can fully understand...very insightful and informative...your podcast always leaves me inspired Thank You
Thanks for a great interview and thank you Jonathan for your work! This is how change begins 🤞🏻
Timestamp: 25:14 appreciative of the conversation about chemical addiction versus behavioral addiction. Mahalo for this conversation and the legacy of your work, both of you!
Quitting facebook and social media was harder than quitting cigarettes for me an it took me 10 years and about 21 attempts to quit smoking.
This is some horrifying shit… scary proposition for us as parents, specially since we didn’t grow up with this type of technology at our fingertips… we’re in uncharted waters
In regards to the parenting if things are such a problem, just take them away. It seems pretty simple to me. When I was 17, I recall a situation where I mouthed off to my father. It was a disrespectful exchange. Well, when I woke up the next morning, my car was up on blocks. Yes my father took the tires off my car and put my vehicle up on cinderblocks. I was stuck until I went back to him and apologized, discussed and cleared up the situation. The entire conflict was extinguished and it never happened again!!!
It's not just kids and teens !!!
My 72 yr old retired husband ( I'm now positive he has undiagnosed ambergris) lives on his phone tablet and TV.
One would think from his actions that he was a teenaged boy !
It's a mind numbing garbage trap !!!
Agree 100% I am addicted and so is my husband. We're all sitting here like zombies on our own separate devices. And it's so hard to stop!
what's "undiagnosed ambergris"?
A high functioning form of autism.
@@user-xp5id1kh4rassuming she means aspergers?
In France and Belgium, the phone is not allowed at school! Have a nice day. Brigitte
this is such an eye opener
Thank you for this insightful conversation, Rich and Jonathan Haidt! Addressing the adverse effects of technology and social media on youth mental health is crucial. Your discussion on hyperconnectivity and proposed solutions opens the door to much-needed awareness and action. Looking forward to exploring more ways to support well-being in today's digital age as I continue my work.
I have some next door neighbors who have an 11 year old boy. Our yards are super small, it’s suburbia after all, but when I was a kid, part of my chores would have been to go and cut the grass once every two weeks. I do that now, just how I maintain my yard. Instead of having their 11 year old do it, these people hired a lawn care service at $45 a month to cut approx 800 square feet of rectangular grass. Kids need to learn how to do work, not just play. And learn about rewards for doing it… being able to go play games was always a reward when I was a kid, not the default.
I had a couple friends in high school who all went off social media through a majority of our jr and senior year and just started getting out more doing whatever we could imagine and it saved our lives. We look back at those days as some of our best and it's all because we got off social media and got out.
Gen x here. I haven't used FB for 10 years. It felt toxic to see everyone's opinions on every social and political subject. I could see that it would make me dislike people I would otherwise be OK with. It explains a fair portion of why we're so divided.
Thx once more for bringing such a great guest, RR. The Anxious Generation book is my next read. 🔥🥰
This is such an important conversation. Fantastic listen, if not an easy one.
this was an incredible podcast. thank you for continuing to put out amazing conversations about so many importand issues
I love his passion! He’s fighting on behalf of all of us and I’m so with him.
I'll be getting the book right away
Thanks for this, Rich. Super important for moms, dads, educators and goverment decision makers. I hope this does bring people together to help stop all that is happening to our children. It's absolutely terrible and I honestly wish I'd never allowed my young child onto the internet. Very hard to put the poop back into the horse as they say....cheers
I'm so happy I found your youtube ! Topnotch! 🎉🎉
We’ve become hyper protective of our kids and monitor them all the time.. but at the same time have decided kids are too much trouble.. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s.. we were absolutely feral..
I have a son who is the Iphone generation. Born 2000. In his teens he would have his friends over and they would sit in their room on their phones and not speak to eachother. What was the point of being together is they weren't connecting
In developmental psychology, it’s called “parallel play,” a type of play in which children are playing adjacent to each other, but not actually with each other. It normally occurs between the ages of 24-30 months of age, as children are developing social skills.
Your child and his friends are seriously developmentally delayed. You might want to have him evaluated by a professional child psychologist.
It makes me super frustrated that the school has given my kids Chromebooks to bring home. I do not want that. Why are we pushing this? It does not make their education better in any substantive way, it's just a way for them to try and sneak screen time after bed and the like.
I’m a parent and teacher at a Chromebook district. Have them do their homework at the kitchen table or where you can see them and then turn it off. Set a time and they turn the machine on to you for the night.
@@chocolatemint9225all these school districts were “gifted” computers by the very companies that want to build a brand with the next generation. What data is being collected by the variety of programs that schools require children to use for testing and mind numbing exercises? Books are better, especially for young children.
ok right?! My first grader was given a Chromebook with a game called Prodigy on it. Granted it’s “educational” but my son was 100% addicted to it. Irritable when it was taken away, asked for it all the time, etc. We have a tv with limited screen time but my kids have never been on a tablet or iPad or anything else. I assumed because the school sent it home it must be “ok.” Now I’m deep in research and it compulsory government run schooling and the benefits of homeschooling.
Grow up. Start being a real parent. Sit with your child while he is using his Chromebook, and then put it away when his homework is done. Stop blaming the school because you have raised your child to be a brat, and now you don’t like the results of what you have done. Deal with it.
@@suzanneemerson2625 whoa there...not sure if this comment was intended for me or the OP but...wow. What an aggressive and unnecessary comment. "A real parent"?? "Raised a brat?" Pretty bold statements from a literal stranger reading RUclips comments hahahaha.
Rich, thanks so much for this informative episode! I am gen X and quit social media >8 yr ago. I am 50, and have 2 kids that didn't get cell phones/ computers until 16 and I am so glad I decided to limit their access. I'm a nurse, so affording the technology was not the issue- more so the concern of stranger danger and unhealthy habits of staring at phone when should be doing other activities. I agree with the new recommended age limits for tech for the safety of kids!
It's interesting that attention has shifted from everyone watching the news to know what's going on in the culture and has shifted to social media.
The genie never goes back in the bottle.
Meaning?
We just had our first, he’s 8 months old and I am not allowing him on social media until 16. It’s poison and we all know it.
I’ve named it “popcorn brain”.
Thank you for another very important conversation.
I thought that when the internet first came out that we would have world peace and the end of suffering, if we just knew about what was happening, we would do something.
I'm sending this to all of my contacts
I watched two of these, one more of these in its entirety, I will be obligated to subscribe.
Precious conversation💚🙏🏻🌍✨
I was literally scrolling my phone on multiple apps while listening to this.
Tough to kick
I agree 100% with how the phone/media is negatively impacting our children. I am hesitant to agree with the no cell phone at school rule for very selfish reasons. We have had a couple cases where there was gun fire reported near our school and it was very comforting to get a text that everything was okay. I know those cases are very few and far between, but given all of the school violence, there's always a sense of fear looming over parents; and having a way to communicate with a child quickly does help to assuage some of those fears. I would love to hear how Mr. Haidt would respond to those fears.
Flip phones work perfectly fine for communication.
Fascinating discussion. It occurred to me that perhaps a way out of this is to remove the child’s unlimited data plan to a limited data plan that will get used up quickly by these apps. The children will get a little exposure but will also learn the lesson of rationing.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. While I have misgivings about some digital habits nowadays (e.g. nonstop texting), I have trouble seeing how exactly it is different now than the video game craze of the late 80s and early 90s. Games like Tetris and Dr Mario were obviously designed to be addictive to everyone ... and they were ... yet I still see those creations as works of art that should be preserved.
Muito importante essas informações para os pais, educadores, legisladores e para os jovens também. Muito obrigado. Aqui de Brasil
I have three small children: ages, 3, 2, and one who will be born next month.
One of my biggest fears is “losing them“ to social media and screen addiction.
Luckily, my wife and I have chosen to raise them without screens and social media, and many of our friends are of similar thinking.
Hopefully this is a trend that keeps gaining traction.
In the future, giving a kid your phone might be as socially acceptable as giving them a cigarette, if we all do our job to stigmatize it appropriately.
thank you for this Jonathan and Rich
If you must give your child/tween/teen a phone please, please, please look into companies like Gabb that provided age-appropriate social media free options! We gave out 10 year old a flip phone thinking it would be useless for internet browsing. We were wrong. We switched to a Gabb watch which has no internet connectivity or social media access. Now she's 14 and doesn't want a smartphone because of the effect they have had on her friends and peers.
Started with AOL in the 90s !
empathy is an interest in the details of the social system. It is literally systematising. one thing is for sure, men don't understand how women think or how to explain it.
I've been very interested in the effects of herd mentality. Is the over sharing of emotions an example of toxic femininity?
Im not sexist nor transphobic, but I am curious in these fringe and marginal effects that seem to have influence over percentages of the population. .. same vein would be the deification of psychopathy in the corporate world, specifically upper management.
In light of the obvious nature to capitalism... how effective can self-determination or willpower really be when targeted efforts are made to streamline this dopamine effect in the brain?
great stuff !
I have 4 children who all attend a Waldorf school. I know that not everyone has that privilege, but the schools have a no social media policy through middle school, no phone policy at school and they spend time outside every day, rain or shine. It’s one of the few school pedagogies that applies Dr Haidt’s plan.
Spread this Far and Wide…
Really wish I had never used instagram. I think it fucked up my sense of self over the last decade.
It's as simple as listening to your kids. We have a generation old enough to tell us how damaging having free range of the internet at 12. Mine just turned 20, she got out alive, but told me how damaging it was for her. It's all about the money! You will never get rid of it just like all the junk food fed to our kids at school. Best you can do is try and give them alternatives like healthy food and non screen time activities which is only about 20 percent of their lives unfortunately unless you can afford a private school.
As long as the tech companies exist in the way they do they’ll never be defeated
I got off Facebook and Twitter 6 or 7 years ago after the 2016 election because of the fire storms and I was tired of spending my time on them. I'm on LinkedIn because I work and want to be connected to people who present relevant events and access training courses. I'm in a photography group on LI and see quality images by professional or good amateur photographers. I'm a trained photographer so seeing a lot of badly composed or executed photos on other platforms doesn't interest me.
I'm not saying that age limits and locking a kids phone up during school aren't helpful. But, we need to assist children and adolescents in setting healthy boundaries with their phones. It's like our drinking culture. Kids go hard at 21 or earlier when they head off to college, military, and adulthood.
Restriction isnt enough. Parents need to model better behaviors as well when it comes to social media. It's entire cultural shift around phone/social media culture that needs attention
Totally agree with this, and we also wouldn’t say “let’s show this 15 year old how to drink responsibly.” Once a parent introduces social media (16? 18?) there needs to be a level of healthy modeling and lots of conversation.
In the meantime, a parent probably should restrict their access if they’re simultaneously on social ALL the time.
The corporations behind all this will be judged by history and need to be brought to justice
There was a radio ad years ago about a summer camp. The tagline was "Give us your kid, we'll send you back a new one." Unfortunately, they later felt the need to add a disclaimer that it was not literally true. People are too literal minded, or perhaps some parents hoped it was literally true!
Lol I'm 36 now. But even back when I was 23 I remember having the awareness that little children growing up on social media are test rats. And it's sad because no one was even paying attention.
I thought there was a clip where they were discussing online dating apps and how destructive they are for adult men and women...but I can't find that section. Any help would be appreciated!
Excellent interview as usua and guest as usual. BUT, I found a bit of propaganda when talking about "trolls" and "conspiracy theories" and "not sharing my opinions". Where else am I gonna share what I think?
Probably nowhere would be good. Keep you out of trouble.
Children want their mama and papa. 🎉🎉
They should ban Ipads from school too
I was able to realize by just looking at the graphics of video games when they first came to computers, it scared me into never playing video games, just for the fact that I would become addicted through competition, living in my moms basement and she doesn't have one.
I wonder what his view is about what is non political journalism - is all the major media outlets non political when it gets money from many addictive consumer products! Drug and food companies are the same companies!
when did your hair go white? ❤
How about taking porn off and out of "social" media....uuumm...ya when did it become legal to potentially expose minors to this from emotional sexual assault to a young developing mind. It's the media companies that market our children and ourselves as well.
We allow it. Thank U sirs for your awesome work. Truly thank you for your service ❤🤍🙏
What about giving our kids only flip phones until they are 16?
But the reality is that kids share social media so the kid with the SmartPhone will share material with your kid.
maybe I didn't understand his stance on Social Security, I hope he didn't mean that I am not entitled to every cent I PAID into social security? It is all I have to live on now.
Not to mention that they are now TAXING our social security! What a NASTY surprise for us who have worked hard and now count on this money. SHAME on our government for stealing from us
That’s the part of this very important interview that stood out to you?