LOVE THIS VIDEO. Grip as weak as possible, just enough to be uncomfortable, a left hand 'under' feeling. Then open and close as aggressively as possible. This really effects the shoulders and power greatly, gets the shoulders involved in rotating not dipping, but it's counter intuitive. Tremendous compression and power source. 3 right hands Hogan described. YOU HAD A PRIOR VIDEO RE: 'SUPER WEAK GRIP', THIS IS THE KEY, FROM IT FLOWS EVERYTHING ELSE. Some call this the secret of the flat left wrist. The best way to describe this is that it forces a turning of the shaft with forearm rotation, not the clubface. Screwdriver move. Strong grips tend to allow flipping of the club face. You cannot hook the ball with a super weak grip , forearm rotation, & supination into impact. Face is very stable with the super weak grip and then SUPINATION CAN WORK ITS MAGIC........you can then let everything go in rotation into the ball, hold nothing back. Can't do that with a neutral or strong grip........
I roll slightly after reading Mr Hogans book and articles. The key for me is the pointer and thumb on my left/lead hand. I feel like I am twisting a knob. Like on a stereo. As soon as my downswing starts I start twisting the fast and harder the swing the harder and quicker I twist. It is a timing thing. I keep the face closed until P2 and then allow the face to open as I hinge without trying to either open or close it. As my downswing starts I start twisting with the left and throwing with the right (from Mike Austin’s teachings). The twist and Austin style throw and pivot square it up. I’m not great but I can hit a consistent 1 yard fade and the smother hook when I screw it up. Thanks for this video and all the videos over the years.
Fantastic analysis Christo. Opening the club face on the takeaway is freeing. Your swing becomes more fluid. It also allows the right elbow to stay tucked in to your right side without inhibiting the backswing. Everything that is Mr. Hogan’s gorgeous fluid swing. You hit the key at the 7:55 mark where you state Hogan opens the face on the takeaway but that the club head stays outside of the hands. This is where hackers who flail open the face on the takeaway go awry.
Such a great video...THANK YOU! I have been struggling with this very thing for YEARS. I was told, early on, "NEVER OPEN THE FACE ON THE TAKEAWAY. NEVER." Glad to see that I was not alone in fighting with this over the years. It just seems so much more natural to roll open on the takeaway. No wonder I could never hit fairway woods or hybrids off the turf...it's almost impossible to do when your takeaway has a closed clubface. Far left anyone?!?! I was an 8-ish GHIN index and have now gotten down to 5+. This was a tremendous help. Thank you again.
This is in Ben Hogan’s Five Lessons. In the Foreword. Mr. Hogan says “I rolled the face of the club open away from the ball. That cupped my left wrist. Coming down, the face was moving so fast I couldn’t turn it over and hook. I was rotating the club like a baseball bat, and the faster I could rotate it, the more distance I got. I would roll the face open as fast and as far as I could. I could hit the ball straight and father. “
Christo! I’m so pleased you’re now using the Hogan roll 😃 I’ve always found it really difficult and unnatural to keep the club facing the ball, as per modern teaching. It’s much easier for me to roll the face open. As soon as I allowed myself to let it roll open, I could swing much more freely and hit it better. Enjoy your the next level of your golf!
Outstanding demonstration of such a vital aspect of the swing! And incredibly valuable examples of Mr. Hogan in action! This move does absolutely facilitate the most natural swing of the club. And not only more elegant as a result, it's also produces that ideal tensionless and body friendly motion. And it really locks Hogan's magic right elbow right in place throughout. And one more thing to add, which i learned from Hogan's classic Five Lessons is that he really really emphasized to supinate that lead wrist at impact. He was rather indifferent to its position at the top (and the wide spectrum of this position among tour players suggests same), but as your demonstration indicates he actually pronates (cups) wrist early (instantly). What ive found is that this is the key to altering trajectory. The earlier you cup that lead wrist, the more likely it will be cupped at top, which leads to a lower ball flight than if you were to initiate swing with a bowed lead wrist. The latter produces a slightly more vertical swing. *And again, this all assumes you do as Hogan implores and get that least wrist bowed by impact* . And this directly relates to Hogan's other MAJOR lesson, which is the unwinding of the hips in transisiton completes almost the entire downswing because it keeps magic elbow locked in slot and naturally unwinds whatever amount of rolling you initiated in takeaway! I have read so many books over the years and i firmly believe there are none better than his Five Lessons written all the way back in 1959! It is the entire reason i can flush the ball all day long, and humbly speaking it is the entire reason i lost so much respect for tour players! Once you commit yourself to the natural laws of motion it really is an awfully simple task!
Thats crazy. I just started working on that. What I discovered is that its actually not super open when you do that. It just puts the club square in relation ship to impact.
Finally! Someone gets it. This is EXTREMELY important for teaching new golfers. New golfers think the swing is a Ferris Wheel (they want to fall back and pick up). "Turning the key" to start the swing gives them an insight into the rotational aspect of golf. It's a totally different force vector that frees their minds from the lifting action we see across all golf ranges. I get my students to hook a ball in about 5 minutes (yes, pull hook, of course. I'm not a miracle worker) You can fix a pull hook, but once someone gets the slice swing (square to the line) in their heads, it's time to find another sport. ALL good golfers roll the face INTO impact. Yes, they stabilized through impact (supination), but we don't think "hold it to the line"; that's death (unless your playing a Tiger cut from behind a tree).
In my first golf lesson in 1992 at Tony Lema Golf Course in Northern California, a old instructor taught me this swing which I played with for twenty years until another instructor changed my swing. When you find it, the feel off the club face is ridiculously awesome and compression is sweet.
Tom Bertrand says the other part of this move is the left elbow pointing towards the hip (externally rotating the left shoulder) which he says is what squares the club face. Thoughts?
Interesting! I purchased the GEM training aid and this swing is very close to the swing I must use to eliminate "the wobble" which is the goal of using the GEM trainer. I am playing much better golf with the rolling swing.
Your swing looks great. The feeling your talking about with the new swing thought Has happened a fews times last couple of rounds. When you hit it the ball feels another level of compression
What about the Ben Hogan company out of business, and l had to wait but l was going to switch back to ben hogan clubs. But now l can't, can pick up a set somewhere else?
If you want to replicate Hogan pull harder to start the swing. A little bit like starting a lawn mower but only briefly. Or it can feel like a frisbee throw finishing palm up. The right arm does the work
@@MiracleSwingExperience its for sure hard to explain forces applied in a golf swing and you can't really see them. I think maybe Hogan was pulling and rotating with the right arm and resisting with the left. The right arm and hand are the mirror image of what he describes the hands doing at impact. The reason this open position is actually closer the square is because the body is rotated open at impact. Better to think of the club as square to impact rather than open. At set up if you moved into impact position without changing you arm rotation you would be way closed. Try rolling the club open (the waggle) and then rotating your body into an ideal impact position and you'll see what I mean.
he waggle from Mr Hogan is a process of registering club face awareness prior to going into the main takeaway I believe. Once set at the top, he drives his hips and brings the end of the club handle down into the back of the ball as hips are cleared to prime and release the energy stored by the end of the handle presentation to the ball can't hold off any more and fires the release down the line. Just my thoughts:)
Christo, always tried to roll but was afraid of hooking it. I remember when you posted a video long time ago about the Hogan Roll that’s when I started lol.. question - neutral grip correct ? Thanks bud great stuff and going to work this on the range.
I posted a video on You tube trying to describe the hand action for an active hinge. "Hogan active hinge and roll" btw this move makes you look way more free through the ball
Check out John Erickson and his Advanced Ball Striking. He explains this concept very well. He promotes rolling to square and at impact he hands off to body rotation allowing club face stay square for a long time . . . To a high follow through. Bottom line, if you are a good athlete and have unlimited time at the range, and you stick to a method, you will probably make it work. But only if you can put will you become a champion.
if you watch Hogan in the Shell match vs Snead he clearly seems to want to ensure that the right hand is on top of the club at address, so he opens and closes it in the waggle, the closing looking more important thna the opening
Every player has to find someway to accomplish wide take away/releasing at both back/down swing. Mr.hogan had his unique way for his backswing. So if we turn the play speed to 0.25, I find at the first moment of his takeoff was to push the clubhead outward untill the club shaft reach the inner side of the right leg, then started to open the clubface. Now,nobody doing in this way, like Rory, they hold the arms engaged with the Blake bone tightly and have the elbow face to the 3 o'clock direction. This makes the clubhead not to open untill it leave to body.
You are almost there. Watch Tom Watson swing part 2 to see how to swing in a barrel and rotate your upper chest and start the down swing with your right shoulder. If you let Hogan's hand rotation happen naturally it will put your left arm flat across your chest relaxed in the back swing naturally with relaxed muscle tension. And when you have your right wrist in Hogan's position and your right elbow still attached to your right side as you rotate your hips (the hips will be ahead of the chest every time). In the down swing, the right chest rotates the right elbow and cocked right wrist in what feels like straight down behind you causing the club handle to point straight into your belt buckle in the middle of the transition at impact and your right forearm brushes your right pocket as you follow through and your right knee touches the inside of your left leg because gravity causes the follow through and Hogan's hands rotating through the transitioin add the distance. The first time I did it right i was stunned at the feeling and how repeatable and relaxing it is. Sort of that oily feeling i always heard Sam Snead described it as.
That is interesting and then we have players like Dustin Johnson who completely shuts down the face on the backswing and still hits a fade. Hogan said he hit the ball hard with both hands. I have to try very hard to keep my right hand as passive as possible because when my right hands is active, I tend to get steep and come across the ball. Drives me crazy. I think I need an intensive.
(Typo) The waggle from Mr Hogan is a process of registering club face awareness prior to going into the main takeaway I believe. Once set at the top, he drives his hips and brings the end of the club handle down into the back of the ball as hips are cleared to prime and release the energy stored by the end of the handle presentation to the ball can't hold off any more and fires the release down the line. Just my thoughts:)
I think you overlooked one dimension about this move....rolling the clubface wide open on the backswing.... What does it do to the right hand? It pushes the right hand in a cupped position... is that the right term? Take your right hand, hold it straight in front of you with the palm facing your left or target (for a right hander). Then without moving your arm, flex the hand back more to the right ... instead of facing your target, it will be turned 45 degrees right of target. So if the right wrist is in this position... the left wrist is in the bent position all the players today say to get to in order to hit it straight. If the right wrist bends right, so does the left. Where the palm of the right hand faces is where the clubface faces. Now if you roll it open like this and turn on the downswing, your right hand comes to face the target (the palm does)... I tried this at the range today and hit some very good shot! Shots with lots of power and pretty straight!
Hogan had a bad snap hook. If your swing produces a snap hook then you might fix it by moving the club head in a way that would induce a slice. Snap hook swing with an open face might produce a straighter ball. It’s fixing one fault with another but if you can consistently reproduce it good luck to you . Hogan had a problem swing that was personal to him and he found a way to counter it. Should we all really be using the same method ?
On the back swing the right palm is sliding up to be flat on his glass plane at the top. As for rolling through the ball, you just want to roll to toe up after impact - not rolled over. The raised left wrist bone at impact is a result the bent right wrist which is a position of strength. Trying to do it with the left hand raised wrist is so weak and will result in injury to the small bones there. It is a big difference between looking like you are lashing at the ball with the back of the left hand, and actually attempting to lash at the ball with the back of the left hand. BE WARNED!!!!
Thx for this....your on the right track......when legends of golf besides the Master Hogan all roll the club face open then slam it shut....well its proof in the pudding so to speak.....check out Sam Snead, Bobby Jones, Arnold Palmer along with no less than Lee Trevino....swings could not be more different and yet they all look the same coming into impact from a forearm and wrist perspective.....Love your quest Thx
watching in half speedmode from 13:00 onwards ur clubhead is still very much square on the take off. not as much roll as Hogan had.. and at 18:00 its very clear your clubhead stays very square. possibly your muscle memory kicking in.
@@MiracleSwingExperience i have a fair bit of experince with reprogramming muscle memory movements. On average it takes at least 6months to get a basic reprogrammed response going with around 2hrs per week. Also you have to start almost at tai chi speed with dry reps. Many many many reps. Also loads of imagined reps. Breaking it down into smaller steps or segments also helps
When I could finally pull off the “roll”, I imagined my left hand on the handle bars of a motor cycle and bowing the wrist to accelerate the bike. Started compressing like never before. The biggest problem that surfaced is that I would sometimes limit my hip movement.
Hogan used his body to move the hands in his backswing as the club face open quickly. Look more closely again. That’s the key and unless you understand it. That’s what being connected means.
I always thought the Hogan Roll was going from a cupped left wrist position at the top of his backswing to a bowing of the left wrist on the downswing. I never thought the rolling of the face open in the early backswing was the “Hogan Roll.”
That's how I've described it in the past, but as Hogan says in the quote above the roll on the backswing sets the cup at the top. I just cupped without much roll before.
One more little bit to go Christo. You haven't quite got the "tumble" of the wrists. When the wrists are thrust down and away from the top through parallel, the club head falls in behind and inside between the target line and the feet line. Then in that locked position the wrists unlock by pulling up and left, bringing the club head down and out, right into the back quadrant of the ball. Golf Smart Academy INSIGHT- Timing of the Tumble is a 2 minute, 40 second video. Also, Charlie Explains Cutting Edge Golf Theory, CHAGOL TV. He speaks Japanese but you can click CC for subtitles (You'll LOVE IT, but watch your back). The idea is the sudden change of direction and club head inside unlocking through the wrist creates more speed. I saw Bobby Jones doing it in a video, I thought 'why are his hands so far out?' I call it WUMP. You'll feel the power get stored through the hitting zone, then WUMP. Hogan's ROLL adds even more power.
@@MiracleSwingExperience I think your next project is to start to develop new "DRILLS" for your OTT, give them new names, "wind up" instead of "take away" etc, "throw down" and the key moments. YOU Christo, need to own the new language, remember whilst this is old knowledge, you are the one who dug it up and brought it back into the main stream, by owning the language you will be the gate keeper of this, like Mike Maves and Hogan. That knowledge was known but never brought to life the way he did. Control the narrative. If Elk says "take away" emphasise "wind up" and sell it to him because "wind up" is more accurate and relevant. Accuracy in communicating this was the start of the problem. Like I said a few months ago, we let uneducated, inarticulate, sportsmen do the explaining instead of coaching their explanation into C.L.A.R.I.T.Y
I never actually saw your swing (I watched frame-by-frame) where you actually rotate your hands like Hogan did. You think you did, but you didn't. You may have changed it a little from closed to open, but nothing like Hogan's hand rotation.
your swing is say HOGAN ,, It just open face back swing and the follow through is a quick follow through , I mean a good swing to the ball and you feel your wrist move through the action of impact ,, It's the waggle before the contact. I my self wonder the free flow of the swing , Hogan videos don't show how quick the swing is and they are all ways in slow motion . My dad seen Hogan in the late 50s mid 60s at the Colonial tournament here in Ft.Worth . I played the PC irons for ten years bought two set , My old man said " It's the practice of the irons , Then you will look good on the golf course .
my best lesson had me "hooding "the club face at the take away . A Senior pro champ (won a U.S. Amauther ) looked at my swing " to close the door, first you have to open it "
Watch Djokovic's Tennis backhand and you will see a similar move with flat lead-hand wrist and supination on the take-away and the roll. ruclips.net/video/6WyMFz4ynl4/видео.html
Ben Hogan was deliberately cagy about his golf swing. I'm not sure if he ever gave up 100 percent of how his swing worked. You can study the film, but you don't know what was going on between his ears.
the clubs Hogan used are so different to today's equipment... And different clubs require different swings.. Hogan using today's clubs would have probably just switched his club set-up or switched clubs rather than changing his whole swing to fix his hook. You just can't expect that a 1950's swing can be copied in 2022 - just makes no sense.. P.s You are short and have a similar Hogan-like body frame. So, some of Hogan's golf fundamentals may be fine - for you... Golfer's outside this body shape - can't swing like Hogan...
I don't think irons are much different so I do believe Hogan's swing can serve as a good guide. It can't be replicated. And, stature does make a difference as well. Cheers!
I feel once you start trying to manipulate the hands or clubface the average golfer is asking for trouble. I stick with simplistic teaching such as Manuel de la Torre. It keeps it very simple for me
It seems to me that Hogan did in the backswing the OPPOSITE of what he wanted to accomplish in the downswing. ie he loaded. He rolled the face in the backswing so as to SHUT it on the downswing He cupped in the backswing and at the top so as to "un cup" into impact (knuckles down, bowed wrist) It seems even those who propose you keep the face square to the arc going back, (Tom Watson) the face of the club ends up at the top facing skyward........just as it would be if you rolled the face in the takeaway. In other words, both takeaways get you to the same place. Agree?
I am not sure we see it the same way. Hogan was toe down at the top of the backswing. My club face has always pointed more at the sky. Strength of the grip affects this angle as well.
@@MiracleSwingExperience How can one roll the face open in the takeaway and end up toe down? And with a "flat" or "low" plane? The "waiter move" that Hogan speaks of at the top.....that is face up...has to be.
Hi Christo, I am a long-time subscriber and a big fan of your work. I learned so much from your content and struggled to understand this part. I think the baseball analogy might throw us off. The way Mr. Hogan described the rolls could be kind of hard to grasp. I believe it may be done differently since baseball swing theory is just as complex as golf. I saw a Japanese golf coach working on this and it somehow connected the dots with me. I thought you might be interested. ruclips.net/video/fIKRcCeOCnA/видео.html Hope you find this helpful and you have a lovely weekend.
If I am not mistaken, I think the “Hogan roll” is a reaction to the combined actions of hip-turn and the arm rotating the club clockwise towards the back. To rotate the club at the top of the swing, your body needs to contract the right side of your lat. That will allow the club path to shallowed. With the hip turn, it automatically creates the lateral side bend that clears the swing path. Your arms barely swing during this motion. As the hip turns, the club will wipe out with a tremendous amount of force when the club has no space to go. Isn't this fascinating? More interestingly, this can apply to all kinds of swings, classic swing, modern swing, long drive swing; you name it. If you get it, you will see it in all the great ball strikers. Sorry, English is my second language. I wish I could put it out more clearly.
@@simondefish Your English is outstanding. Thank you. I watched the video you sent. I had actually sent this same drill (from an American batting coach) to Bradley Hughes, the famous golf instructor last year. However, I had not every tried it until today. It helped glue everything together really well. Thank you very much for reminding me!!!
Maybe you take a look at John Ericsson or Bradley Hughes and their approach. You can watch a series of videos at the channel Be better golf. It is exactly what you have discovered.
LOVE THIS VIDEO. Grip as weak as possible, just enough to be uncomfortable, a left hand 'under' feeling. Then open and close as aggressively as possible. This really effects the shoulders and power greatly, gets the shoulders involved in rotating not dipping, but it's counter intuitive. Tremendous compression and power source. 3 right hands Hogan described. YOU HAD A PRIOR VIDEO RE: 'SUPER WEAK GRIP', THIS IS THE KEY, FROM IT FLOWS EVERYTHING ELSE. Some call this the secret of the flat left wrist. The best way to describe this is that it forces a turning of the shaft with forearm rotation, not the clubface. Screwdriver move. Strong grips tend to allow flipping of the club face. You cannot hook the ball with a super weak grip , forearm rotation, & supination into impact. Face is very stable with the super weak grip and then SUPINATION CAN WORK ITS MAGIC........you can then let everything go in rotation into the ball, hold nothing back. Can't do that with a neutral or strong grip........
Whoa, Bob. You are blowing my mind. It feels unnatural for me after years of holding off the face but it makes so much sense now! Thank you.
Can’t wait to try this tomorrow. Right now this makes so much sense in my head 😮
“I’m hitting it as good as I’ve ever hit it! Let’s start trying other stuff”. This is the golfer’s dilemma 😂
It’s so true!!! 😅
I roll slightly after reading Mr Hogans book and articles. The key for me is the pointer and thumb on my left/lead hand. I feel like I am twisting a knob. Like on a stereo. As soon as my downswing starts I start twisting the fast and harder the swing the harder and quicker I twist. It is a timing thing. I keep the face closed until P2 and then allow the face to open as I hinge without trying to either open or close it. As my downswing starts I start twisting with the left and throwing with the right (from Mike Austin’s teachings). The twist and Austin style throw and pivot square it up. I’m not great but I can hit a consistent 1 yard fade and the smother hook when I screw it up. Thanks for this video and all the videos over the years.
I want to get used to this feeling. Still weird!
Fantastic analysis Christo. Opening the club face on the takeaway is freeing. Your swing becomes more fluid. It also allows the right elbow to stay tucked in to your right side without inhibiting the backswing. Everything that is Mr. Hogan’s gorgeous fluid swing. You hit the key at the 7:55 mark where you state Hogan opens the face on the takeaway but that the club head stays outside of the hands. This is where hackers who flail open the face on the takeaway go awry.
Such a great video...THANK YOU! I have been struggling with this very thing for YEARS. I was told, early on, "NEVER OPEN THE FACE ON THE TAKEAWAY. NEVER." Glad to see that I was not alone in fighting with this over the years. It just seems so much more natural to roll open on the takeaway. No wonder I could never hit fairway woods or hybrids off the turf...it's almost impossible to do when your takeaway has a closed clubface. Far left anyone?!?! I was an 8-ish GHIN index and have now gotten down to 5+. This was a tremendous help. Thank you again.
This is in Ben Hogan’s Five Lessons. In the Foreword. Mr. Hogan says “I rolled the face of the club open away from the ball. That cupped my left wrist. Coming down, the face was moving so fast I couldn’t turn it over and hook. I was rotating the club like a baseball bat, and the faster I could rotate it, the more distance I got. I would roll the face open as fast and as far as I could. I could hit the ball straight and father. “
Thank you for this!
@@thebigleone1066 if it goes awry just remember to keep the elbows in to your sides and keep rotating your body
I can't find that quote in my book. Can you give a hint where I can find it in the book? Thanks.
@@ritschi66 Yes it is paragraph 10 in the Foreword of the book.
This works but honestly, I don't think Christo has the proper backswing for this move.
Christo! I’m so pleased you’re now using the Hogan roll 😃
I’ve always found it really difficult and unnatural to keep the club facing the ball, as per modern teaching. It’s much easier for me to roll the face open. As soon as I allowed myself to let it roll open, I could swing much more freely and hit it better.
Enjoy your the next level of your golf!
Thank you so much, Tom. I wrote a new novel called "A Links Tale." You might enjoy it!
I really appreciate you walking us through your step by step process in developing a swing adjustment.
Going to give this a try Christo.
Thanks!
We’re all on the journey together John!
Outstanding demonstration of such a vital aspect of the swing! And incredibly valuable examples of Mr. Hogan in action! This move does absolutely facilitate the most natural swing of the club. And not only more elegant as a result, it's also produces that ideal tensionless and body friendly motion. And it really locks Hogan's magic right elbow right in place throughout. And one more thing to add, which i learned from Hogan's classic Five Lessons is that he really really emphasized to supinate that lead wrist at impact. He was rather indifferent to its position at the top (and the wide spectrum of this position among tour players suggests same), but as your demonstration indicates he actually pronates (cups) wrist early (instantly). What ive found is that this is the key to altering trajectory. The earlier you cup that lead wrist, the more likely it will be cupped at top, which leads to a lower ball flight than if you were to initiate swing with a bowed lead wrist. The latter produces a slightly more vertical swing. *And again, this all assumes you do as Hogan implores and get that least wrist bowed by impact* . And this directly relates to Hogan's other MAJOR lesson, which is the unwinding of the hips in transisiton completes almost the entire downswing because it keeps magic elbow locked in slot and naturally unwinds whatever amount of rolling you initiated in takeaway!
I have read so many books over the years and i firmly believe there are none better than his Five Lessons written all the way back in 1959! It is the entire reason i can flush the ball all day long, and humbly speaking it is the entire reason i lost so much respect for tour players! Once you commit yourself to the natural laws of motion it really is an awfully simple task!
Thats crazy. I just started working on that. What I discovered is that its actually not super open when you do that. It just puts the club square in relation ship to impact.
Right? It’s kind of crazy!
I have watched you prog ress with your swing over many years. It is really looking great. Overall very nice program of instruction. Excellent!
Finally! Someone gets it. This is EXTREMELY important for teaching new golfers. New golfers think the swing is a Ferris Wheel (they want to fall back and pick up). "Turning the key" to start the swing gives them an insight into the rotational aspect of golf. It's a totally different force vector that frees their minds from the lifting action we see across all golf ranges. I get my students to hook a ball in about 5 minutes (yes, pull hook, of course. I'm not a miracle worker) You can fix a pull hook, but once someone gets the slice swing (square to the line) in their heads, it's time to find another sport. ALL good golfers roll the face INTO impact. Yes, they stabilized through impact (supination), but we don't think "hold it to the line"; that's death (unless your playing a Tiger cut from behind a tree).
In my first golf lesson in 1992 at Tony Lema Golf Course in Northern California, a old instructor taught me this swing which I played with for twenty years until another instructor changed my swing. When you find it, the feel off the club face is ridiculously awesome and compression is sweet.
Tom Bertrand says the other part of this move is the left elbow pointing towards the hip (externally rotating the left shoulder) which he says is what squares the club face. Thoughts?
I can see that
Your swing has dramatically improved. You look like you are enjoying the results of all your effort and study. Congrats.
Interesting! I purchased the GEM training aid and this swing is very close to the swing I must use to eliminate "the wobble" which is the goal of using the GEM trainer. I am playing much better golf with the rolling swing.
Your swing looks great. The feeling your talking about with the new swing thought Has happened a fews times last couple of rounds. When you hit it the ball feels another level of compression
Yes, indeed. It feels fantastic!
What about the Ben Hogan company out of business, and l had to wait but l was going to switch back to ben hogan clubs. But now l can't, can pick up a set somewhere else?
If you want to replicate Hogan pull harder to start the swing. A little bit like starting a lawn mower but only briefly. Or it can feel like a frisbee throw finishing palm up. The right arm does the work
Pull with the left hand?
@@MiracleSwingExperience its for sure hard to explain forces applied in a golf swing and you can't really see them. I think maybe Hogan was pulling and rotating with the right arm and resisting with the left. The right arm and hand are the mirror image of what he describes the hands doing at impact. The reason this open position is actually closer the square is because the body is rotated open at impact. Better to think of the club as square to impact rather than open. At set up if you moved into impact position without changing you arm rotation you would be way closed. Try rolling the club open (the waggle) and then rotating your body into an ideal impact position and you'll see what I mean.
he waggle from Mr Hogan is a process of registering club face awareness prior to going into the main takeaway I believe. Once set at the top, he drives his hips and brings the end of the club handle down into the back of the ball as hips are cleared to prime and release the energy stored by the end of the handle presentation to the ball can't hold off any more and fires the release down the line. Just my thoughts:)
Christo, always tried to roll but was afraid of hooking it. I remember when you posted a video long time ago about the Hogan Roll that’s when I started lol.. question - neutral grip correct ? Thanks bud great stuff and going to work this on the range.
The grip has to be played with. I like a stronger grip, but when I do the roll I have to used a little weaker grip personally.
I posted a video on You tube trying to describe the hand action for an active hinge. "Hogan active hinge and roll" btw this move makes you look way more free through the ball
I have to check that out!
@@MiracleSwingExperience the descrition in the video makes it more clear in terms of how forces are used
Bradley Hughes and John Erickson teach opening the club face…then torso and shoulder rotation stabilized the club face
Check out John Erickson and his Advanced Ball Striking. He explains this concept very well. He promotes rolling to square and at impact he hands off to body rotation allowing club face stay square for a long time . . . To a high follow through. Bottom line, if you are a good athlete and have unlimited time at the range, and you stick to a method, you will probably make it work. But only if you can put will you become a champion.
if you watch Hogan in the Shell match vs Snead he clearly seems to want to ensure that the right hand is on top of the club at address, so he opens and closes it in the waggle, the closing looking more important thna the opening
It must work well with the over the over top swing… the fades you must hit are like a long slice
Every player has to find someway to accomplish wide take away/releasing at both back/down swing.
Mr.hogan had his unique way for his backswing.
So if we turn the play speed to 0.25, I find at the first moment of his takeoff was to push the clubhead outward untill the club shaft reach the inner side of the right leg, then started to open the clubface.
Now,nobody doing in this way, like Rory, they hold the arms engaged with the Blake bone tightly and have the elbow face to the 3 o'clock direction. This makes the clubhead not to open untill it leave to body.
You are almost there. Watch Tom Watson swing part 2 to see how to swing in a barrel and rotate your upper chest and start the down swing with your right shoulder. If you let Hogan's hand rotation happen naturally it will put your left arm flat across your chest relaxed in the back swing naturally with relaxed muscle tension. And when you have your right wrist in Hogan's position and your right elbow still attached to your right side as you rotate your hips (the hips will be ahead of the chest every time). In the down swing, the right chest rotates the right elbow and cocked right wrist in what feels like straight down behind you causing the club handle to point straight into your belt buckle in the middle of the transition at impact and your right forearm brushes your right pocket as you follow through and your right knee touches the inside of your left leg because gravity causes the follow through and Hogan's hands rotating through the transitioin add the distance. The first time I did it right i was stunned at the feeling and how repeatable and relaxing it is. Sort of that oily feeling i always heard Sam Snead described it as.
That is interesting and then we have players like Dustin Johnson who completely shuts down the face on the backswing and still hits a fade. Hogan said he hit the ball hard with both hands. I have to try very hard to keep my right hand as passive as possible because when my right hands is active, I tend to get steep and come across the ball. Drives me crazy. I think I need an intensive.
This is still foreign to me. I want to fully trust it!
(Typo) The waggle from Mr Hogan is a process of registering club face awareness prior to going into the main takeaway I believe. Once set at the top, he drives his hips and brings the end of the club handle down into the back of the ball as hips are cleared to prime and release the energy stored by the end of the handle presentation to the ball can't hold off any more and fires the release down the line. Just my thoughts:)
Christo, what your ball flight on those those wedges and 9 irons?
It was higher than my normal ball flight and it was straighter. I usually draw the ball with my irons.
@@MiracleSwingExperience did you actually feel like you could release as hard as you wanted with no fears of going left?
I think you overlooked one dimension about this move....rolling the clubface wide open on the backswing.... What does it do to the right hand? It pushes the right hand in a cupped position... is that the right term? Take your right hand, hold it straight in front of you with the palm facing your left or target (for a right hander). Then without moving your arm, flex the hand back more to the right ... instead of facing your target, it will be turned 45 degrees right of target. So if the right wrist is in this position... the left wrist is in the bent position all the players today say to get to in order to hit it straight. If the right wrist bends right, so does the left. Where the palm of the right hand faces is where the clubface faces. Now if you roll it open like this and turn on the downswing, your right hand comes to face the target (the palm does)... I tried this at the range today and hit some very good shot! Shots with lots of power and pretty straight!
At 18:24, it looks like your clubface is matching your spine angle. Isn't that what you want?
I looked at that swing and I'm not sure what you mean. At address?
@@MiracleSwingExperience No. At P2. Not rolling the club face open here at all.
Hogan had a bad snap hook. If your swing produces a snap hook then you might fix it by moving the club head in a way that would induce a slice. Snap hook swing with an open face might produce a straighter ball. It’s fixing one fault with another but if you can consistently reproduce it good luck to you . Hogan had a problem swing that was personal to him and he found a way to counter it. Should we all really be using the same method ?
On the back swing the right palm is sliding up to be flat on his glass plane at the top. As for rolling through the ball, you just want to roll to toe up after impact - not rolled over.
The raised left wrist bone at impact is a result the bent right wrist which is a position of strength. Trying to do it with the left hand raised wrist is so weak and will result in injury to the small bones there. It is a big difference between looking like you are lashing at the ball with the back of the left hand, and actually attempting to lash at the ball with the back of the left hand. BE WARNED!!!!
That's what he said in the LIFE magazine article too about his secret, as you probably know.
Oh yeah that’s right
Do you play a fade?
Thx for this....your on the right track......when legends of golf besides the Master Hogan all roll the club face open then slam it shut....well its proof in the pudding so to speak.....check out Sam Snead, Bobby Jones, Arnold Palmer along with no less than Lee Trevino....swings could not be more different and yet they all look the same coming into impact from a forearm and wrist perspective.....Love your quest Thx
I tried the rolling of the wrist I do love it it is definitely different especially with a hybrid I was smoking it😅😅
watching in half speedmode from 13:00 onwards ur clubhead is still very much square on the take off. not as much roll as Hogan had.. and at 18:00 its very clear your clubhead stays very square. possibly your muscle memory kicking in.
Yeah, I'm nowhere near where Hogan is admittedly. I have to keep working on it.
@@MiracleSwingExperience i have a fair bit of experince with reprogramming muscle memory movements. On average it takes at least 6months to get a basic reprogrammed response going with around 2hrs per week. Also you have to start almost at tai chi speed with dry reps. Many many many reps. Also loads of imagined reps. Breaking it down into smaller steps or segments also helps
@@genin69 Ooh. That's great information to share. Thank you!
@@MiracleSwingExperience no problem. Happy to share.
Great stuff.
When I could finally pull off the “roll”, I imagined my left hand on the handle bars of a motor cycle and bowing the wrist to accelerate the bike. Started compressing like never before. The biggest problem that surfaced is that I would sometimes limit my hip movement.
great visualization with the throttle. Cheers and send em to the bottom of the cup!
Before the accident or after thanks
Thank you
Hogan used his body to move the hands in his backswing as the club face open quickly. Look more closely again. That’s the key and unless you understand it. That’s what being connected means.
Good to know thanks!
Real vs. feel. Even Mr. Hogan misinterpreted what he was actually doing.
Perhaps. I think describing feels is difficult especially before we had swing science.
@@MiracleSwingExperience And high speed cameras. But an interesting idea. Thank you for posting.
I always thought the Hogan Roll was going from a cupped left wrist position at the top of his backswing to a bowing of the left wrist on the downswing. I never thought the rolling of the face open in the early backswing was the “Hogan Roll.”
That's how I've described it in the past, but as Hogan says in the quote above the roll on the backswing sets the cup at the top. I just cupped without much roll before.
One more little bit to go Christo. You haven't quite got the "tumble" of the wrists. When the wrists are thrust down and away from the top through parallel, the club head falls in behind and inside between the target line and the feet line. Then in that locked position the wrists unlock by pulling up and left, bringing the club head down and out, right into the back quadrant of the ball. Golf Smart Academy INSIGHT- Timing of the Tumble is a 2 minute, 40 second video. Also, Charlie Explains Cutting Edge Golf Theory, CHAGOL TV. He speaks Japanese but you can click CC for subtitles (You'll LOVE IT, but watch your back). The idea is the sudden change of direction and club head inside unlocking through the wrist creates more speed. I saw Bobby Jones doing it in a video, I thought 'why are his hands so far out?' I call it WUMP. You'll feel the power get stored through the hitting zone, then WUMP. Hogan's ROLL adds even more power.
Wow. This sounds like a treasure trove of high level secret sauce!!!
@@MiracleSwingExperience I think your next project is to start to develop new "DRILLS" for your OTT, give them new names, "wind up" instead of "take away" etc, "throw down" and the key moments. YOU Christo, need to own the new language, remember whilst this is old knowledge, you are the one who dug it up and brought it back into the main stream, by owning the language you will be the gate keeper of this, like Mike Maves and Hogan. That knowledge was known but never brought to life the way he did. Control the narrative. If Elk says "take away" emphasise "wind up" and sell it to him because "wind up" is more accurate and relevant. Accuracy in communicating this was the start of the problem. Like I said a few months ago, we let uneducated, inarticulate, sportsmen do the explaining instead of coaching their explanation into C.L.A.R.I.T.Y
Do you have oversize grips ??
I noticed that, too. It looks like his right hand barely fits around the grip.
@@jsusna1972 looks like Bryson’s grips
I use JumboMax grips. They're great!
@@garylucas7050 They are what Bryson plays.
Just skip a Frisbee (a throw) with the lead hand for practice and skip a stone (a throw) with the trail hand for practice.
Have you checked out any of Jon Erickson stuff he was on be better golf but he talks a lot about this
I have watched his work. I don't remember the part about this. I'd love to see it!
Christo rolling the wrist does that cause u to hook the ball? Thanks
It can if you over do it.
John erickson also talks about how hogan played 6° flat on his lies
That’s super flat man
You can hear the compression
This sounds like playing with fire haha
It is. I know it is 😅
Your not opening the face on takeaway? Nice swing though
I think your forgetting about something. The "Waggle". That was Hogan's set up. The set up to his shot included that. Try the waggle next time.
I never actually saw your swing (I watched frame-by-frame) where you actually rotate your hands like Hogan did. You think you did, but you didn't. You may have changed it a little from closed to open, but nothing like Hogan's hand rotation.
The waggle from Mr Hogan is a process of registering club face awareness prior to going into the main takeaway I believe.
your swing is say HOGAN ,, It just open face back swing and the follow through is a quick follow through , I mean a good swing to the ball and you feel your wrist move through the action of impact ,, It's the waggle before the contact. I my self wonder the free flow of the swing , Hogan videos don't show how quick the swing is and they are all ways in slow motion . My dad seen Hogan in the late 50s mid 60s at the Colonial tournament here in Ft.Worth . I played the PC irons for ten years bought two set , My old man said " It's the practice of the irons , Then you will look good on the golf course .
The ball sounds like it’s connecting inside of center
Watching from your front view, you did NOT roll the clubface wide open,. It looked like your normal swing.
Yikes! You’re a brave man to give this a try. Your swing looked perfect beforehand.
Gosh, I don't know if I'm crazy or inspired. I hit some good shots on the course yesterday, but had to abandon it after a couple of bad shots.
my best lesson had me "hooding "the club face at the take away . A Senior pro champ (won a U.S. Amauther ) looked at my swing " to close the door, first you have to open it "
So it's a lot of hand action
That’s his first move. I didn’t see anything else move before his hands
I think he said - hands, arms, shoulders in that order.
Thumbing a ride
Watch Djokovic's Tennis backhand and you will see a similar move with flat lead-hand wrist and supination on the take-away and the roll. ruclips.net/video/6WyMFz4ynl4/видео.html
You resemble Ben Hogan!
Maybe he did this to avoid the hook all together
Ben Hogan was deliberately cagy about his golf swing. I'm not sure if he ever gave up 100 percent of how his swing worked. You can study the film, but you don't know what was going on between his ears.
Hi Christo
There are no miracles in golf or anywhere else. However you may have a new process in golf.
the clubs Hogan used are so different to today's equipment...
And different clubs require different swings..
Hogan using today's clubs would have probably just switched his club set-up or switched clubs rather than changing his whole swing to fix his hook.
You just can't expect that a 1950's swing can be copied in 2022 - just makes no sense..
P.s You are short and have a similar Hogan-like body frame.
So, some of Hogan's golf fundamentals may be fine - for you...
Golfer's outside this body shape - can't swing like Hogan...
I don't think irons are much different so I do believe Hogan's swing can serve as a good guide. It can't be replicated. And, stature does make a difference as well. Cheers!
I feel once you start trying to manipulate the hands or clubface the average golfer is asking for trouble. I stick with simplistic teaching such as Manuel de la Torre. It keeps it very simple for me
That's what has always been best for me, but I'm having fun with this.
Doesn't that produce a draw? I thought Mr. Hogan loved to fade it?
It seems to me that Hogan did in the backswing the OPPOSITE of what he wanted to accomplish in the downswing. ie he loaded.
He rolled the face in the backswing so as to SHUT it on the downswing
He cupped in the backswing and at the top so as to "un cup" into impact (knuckles down, bowed wrist)
It seems even those who propose you keep the face square to the arc going back, (Tom Watson) the face of the club ends up at the top facing skyward........just as it would be if you rolled the face in the takeaway. In other words, both takeaways get you to the same place. Agree?
I am not sure we see it the same way. Hogan was toe down at the top of the backswing. My club face has always pointed more at the sky. Strength of the grip affects this angle as well.
@@MiracleSwingExperience How can one roll the face open in the takeaway and end up toe down? And with a "flat" or "low" plane?
The "waiter move" that Hogan speaks of at the top.....that is face up...has to be.
The left wrist is a result and not the cause to good contact.
That's a very good point. Agreed!
weaken your grip 1/4 inch...
Hi Christo, I am a long-time subscriber and a big fan of your work. I learned so much from your content and struggled to understand this part. I think the baseball analogy might throw us off. The way Mr. Hogan described the rolls could be kind of hard to grasp. I believe it may be done differently since baseball swing theory is just as complex as golf. I saw a Japanese golf coach working on this and it somehow connected the dots with me. I thought you might be interested. ruclips.net/video/fIKRcCeOCnA/видео.html Hope you find this helpful and you have a lovely weekend.
Thank you so much for this. I will watch it right after I have my coffee!
Very good video.
If I am not mistaken, I think the “Hogan roll” is a reaction to the combined actions of hip-turn and the arm rotating the club clockwise towards the back. To rotate the club at the top of the swing, your body needs to contract the right side of your lat. That will allow the club path to shallowed. With the hip turn, it automatically creates the lateral side bend that clears the swing path. Your arms barely swing during this motion. As the hip turns, the club will wipe out with a tremendous amount of force when the club has no space to go. Isn't this fascinating? More interestingly, this can apply to all kinds of swings, classic swing, modern swing, long drive swing; you name it. If you get it, you will see it in all the great ball strikers.
Sorry, English is my second language. I wish I could put it out more clearly.
@@simondefish Your English is outstanding. Thank you. I watched the video you sent. I had actually sent this same drill (from an American batting coach) to Bradley Hughes, the famous golf instructor last year. However, I had not every tried it until today. It helped glue everything together really well. Thank you very much for reminding me!!!
The guy in the background spent an hour trying to work out his shit...distracting
Everyone is on their own path.
Maybe you take a look at John Ericsson or Bradley Hughes and their approach. You can watch a series of videos at the channel Be better golf. It is exactly what you have discovered.
Very cool to know. Thanks!