That frog book absolutely messed me up. It highlighted to me a deficit which I hadn't even realised I had until I was forced into that situation. In daily life I had learnt at some point to work around it by reading the content ahead of time, processing it and THEN telling the story.
As you were describing what he did and what you did i was thinking of what i would do if i were told to do that. I'd be looking at the book and pictures and tell a story and... Wouldn't look up. Then you told the end and I was like "But WHY would you engage or look at him?? You're telling a story from a book, duh!"
Wait... is THIS why so many ppl are being diagnosed recently? This frog book thing doesn't really seem legit. Unless it's only one of the criteria. Bc if that's a major part of the test, that may or may not be an accurate representation.
@@mellie4174 Do some online testing, there are free ones. You'll find out. It is a spectrum. Maybe you have some autistic traits but the question is, do they cause you problems? If your life is flowing and you're happy, just enjoy yourself. If you're facing the same problems again and again, it could be helpful to do some research and some testing.❤
@@bodyofhope no? there are so many diagnosed recently because doctors have finally realized it's a spectrum. we haven't massively increased in number, they're just now realizing that if your criteria is for severely traumatized male children then it's not actually effective.
LOL! These things matter. At least to ND people. I’m told that, when I was very young, I had a story book about a toad whose name was Bufo, after the scientific name. Apparently my folks and I were out on some trek with outing club naturalists, and I spotted a toad. Of course I called out “Bufo!” I gather the group was very impressed. 😂
@@rebeccataylor6885if it helps…frogs jump and toads walk! So if there were action shots of jumping then it might be frogs your dealing with, although perhaps in certain situations (like lily pad, to lily pad) toads can also pull it together to jump. I have seen the frog book, or been assessed, but I’m pretty sure I ought to be! 😂
Amphibians are my special interest and honestly I couldn't decide either. Some had a wart or two, which are usually toad asociated. But some had no warts. Their leg length and thickness suggests frog. Their toes however looked like toad toes, but they were also toes similar to frogs who dig. They weren't the body shape and didn't have the hands and webbing of typical flying frogs But that didn't matter because they were using lily pads as flying vehicles. Their ears weren't very visible which suggests frog? Inconclusive.
The frog book still haunts me. I ranted about it for weeks. My friends were like that activity ruined you. It was like next level anxiety of squid game mixed w panel job interview & childbirth mixed in one. I always prided myself on my creativity. God damn
@@wolfxlover I've just always liked nature. Loved learning about frogs' amazing adaptations. Look up the Wolverine frog, or four eyed frog for novelty fun. But also the wood frog is a miracle of nature. It stops it's own heart for months on end to hibernate in Canada. It's body is frozen solid yet it lives. Scientists say it holds the key to successful cryogenics. In addition the phantasmal frog's toxin is being looked at by scientists. Their poison (neurotoxin based) is a painkiller 200 times more potent than morphine, but non-addictive. Scientists are trying to harness this in a safe way. I have kept various types of frog throughout my adult life. The first ones I got were were such characters. They had very distinct personailities for such small creatures. As an example, Simon Cowell (frog) would only croak if I played Kylie on my speakers. He would otherwise fold his arms when I played other singers/artists. Amphibians are the most threatened animal class in the world. They have declined by 41% over the past 20/30 years, more than any other class by far. We all know and care about the rhinos, or tigers. But amphibians, no one seems to care about them. Yet they hold the key to so many useful things. Also am involved as a volunteer with saving some 'at risk' species in my country which is really great. I see you like wolves? Would you like to info dump on me - seeing as I have had a fun time doing it to you. 😅
I remember getting really caught up in why was the clock in the kitchen saying an unrealistic time for the activity. Something like 3 and the frog was having breakfast! Found it v hard to move on from and was also like "a-ha! I found the problem!" 😂😂
It was 11-something and a guy was eating a sandwich in his kitchen. I remember that, because it was one of the only times text was written on the page, but it was just the time.
I had the frog book too in the US! I also told a great story, and looking back on the assessment, I also didn’t make eye contact! I was totally focused on the frog fable. 😂💜
Glad you highlighted the creativity issue, as there are lot of autistic people who are creative. As someone waiting for my assessment, I now know to be prepared!
Ooohhhh!! I was diagnosed 2 months ago and I always wondered what she got from the frog book. I felt so awkward and it was my first task so I just basically described each page rather than tell it as a story. But it makes sense they’re looking to see a performance… that’s not what they asked though! 😂
Hahaha! I read about an autistic person who was asked by their therapist to "read" the book to neurotypical adults to see how they react; the neurotypicals couldn't help themselves and were trying to guess the characters' motivations for doing things...
I quite enjoyed the frog book. I remember they went flying over the countryside and there was a guy in his kitchen. What got me was that my assessor recorded "unusual phrases" that didn't seem so unusual to me. And how do they know what's unusual and keep that one straight in their minds!?
It would be interesting to find out how neurotypical people think, they seem to think we use "unusual phrases", misinterpret things, offend "normal" people, yet they can never give an objective, systematic analysis or explanation as to how they arrive at their conclusions.
Ahh the frog book. What I remember about that book is that I pointed out something to my doctor that she said she had never noticed before in her 12 years of doing these assessments. I also don't recall looking up at her until I was done 😂 still waiting on the discussion part of my assessment though.
@@lettherebelightpink that towards the end the frogs start to fly around the other way. Really small detail, but she looked legitimately suprised. And I had to have another session with her for insurance because my insurance switched. But she said once it goes through it should only be a few weeks until we get to the discussion part
@@jessicatalbert6646 whoaaa you were so fast! And that is a cool little detail, how perceptive of you. Gosh, insurance is such a headache. Well done to you for being patient and staying on the ball, and good luck!!! xxxx
OMG! Yess!!! 😂I just finished my testing here in the States, and she used the frog book with me too! Oh and the 'how you brush your teeth' one as well!
AAAA I HAD THAT FROG BOOK TOO 😂😂😂 I had so many theories about the frogs. Some of the pictures i didn't understand. The woman was really quiet in most of it so i suppose she was analysing me.
Oh, so that's what the book and the story were about! 😂😅 I am from Poland and I'm not sure if "my" book had frogs in it (but that sounds strangly familiar...) but the diagnostic process was as I see the same 😂
I was exactly the same way, but my not interacting with the assessor at ALL apparently made no difference. I remember being nervous and I didn't look at her once because I thought my story was fun, but silly, and she just shrugged it off and said I was shy. Lol
Omg! They use that book for children too, or teenagers, I suppose. They used it when I was being assessed and I hated it because I was tired and not in a creative mood. But that makes so much sense now. I had to do another one about a boy dreaming and every page was different but each visually faded into the next. Absolutely painful. Have no idea if I even looked at the woman assessing me or not; was too focused on the task.
This was me. Also the end when I was tired and they wanted to discuss their interests and I thought it was the end of the assessment so I didn't ask them questions to prolong the experience 🙄
That’s really interesting. One of the many ways I mask/camouflage is by purposefully interacting and including others in my conversations. I don’t naturally do this and only do it because it’s a very strong way to connect and put people at ease. I hate not feeling welcome in groups and know the feeling well. Exclusion really hurts so no matter how much I hate or don’t want to interact I still go the extra mile because I would never want someone to feel that way. It’s exhausting and I can’t do it for very long but I put in the effort.
That wasn’t part of my assessment, and now I’m wondering how I would have done on these - what I have noticed about myself is that if I am talking to someone and “making eye contact,” it generally means I am lost in the thing I am thinking about and not really that aware they are there. I mean I am in a sense, but I’m monologuing and not really engaging. Maybe I look like I am, I don’t know. If I’m thinking about and reacting to a virtual input, yes I’m probably looking at it and not other people. That’s kind of necessary for processing my thoughts. I keep hearing that this is a trait but I still don’t really believe that everyone doesn’t need to do this.
@@jimwilliams3816 after years of being told to look at people I do. I look right between their eyebrows. I told asser this but he still said I made eye contact 🤷
I had the frog book too - don't we have to keep it a secret? Seriously, I was looking at everything: the sweet little cat, and the valves (tubes:US) in the back of the TV.
I had no clue what the frog book was about. I had flying frogs and they were kind of maybe taken over humanity and it was kind of like a rough time, but I went into my own fantasy world and there was probably nobody else in the room … I got my diagnosis too
Of course, I had them being social, but they were setting up the toys and so I was chitchatting with them, but they were behind me, and I was just looking forward and that didn’t bother me in the least, and then they purposely came around to be in front of me and I found that weird. We were communicating fine. They were back there doing our thing and we were having a little back-and-forth.
One of the reasons cited for my daughter getting her autism diagnosis was her insisting that are not frogs, but toads. She thought them saying frogs was a test and she was correcting them... They were correct, she is autistic.... With a wide knowledge about nature.
@@KatieM786 rah!!!! :-o I'll need to act like I'm really trying, without looking up, and while mumbling to myself. I see myself behaving like that in real life, so it's fair.
I had this book in my assessment! I was quite young then and a minor, it's interesting that they do it for adults and minors with the same book, cool tho!
I bought that book! I love that book! I get so excited about wordless books! Ive gotten so many kids who were "bad readers" "hated reading" or were just intimidated by the multi levels of translation that comes with reading to really love books BECAUSE of wordless books. What the heck! This is so insulting. What are you supposed to do with a wordless book besides observe the pictures and create a story from them? Wordless books are DESIGNED to be an individual experience- they eliminate the need for prescribed story and interpretation AND validation from others! Theres no words, you HAVE to observe and interpret the images.... im going to get tossed from my diagnosis if they bring out wordless books! 😂😂😂
I'm not sure why I failed mine... Oh they said because even though the conversation was awkward I still communicated well enough... Oh and because I hold down a job.. doesn't make sense to me which is why I'm not sure why. I'm thinking about seeking a second opinion
@@EastElbow that's one of the most invalidating arguments. In my country your doctor has to assign you to the assessment list. The argument " but you have a job" was one of those, why he was sceptical for assigning me in the first place.
@@AutismusImJob I struggle at my job but they keep me around and work with me. Communication is a struggle. I thought that same thing. There are several high profile individuals who have autism that run their own companies.
Tha reminded me of an assiment I had in primery school. There was a few pictures we were supposed to make a story up for. I wrote a sentence or so for each picture and then wrote three pages of a story for what happend afterwards because I wanted to write my own ideas😂
I would really dislike being tricked like that by a professional to gain that kind of insight about me. I am now pleased my diagnosis assessment was different.
I don’t know if we just do it differently in Australia or if it was just my Psychologist but my assessment was very boring. I just got asked lots of questions and then my mum was asked lots of questions and then I got my diagnosis haha
I just had my assessment in February and the person had to walk me through the frog book. I noticed tons of little tiny things and similarities, pointing them out, they had to go back through the book and check 🤣 Btw, I was diagnosed and I'm now referred for an ADHD assessment.
I had a similar task with my test. I didnt engage with anyone during it either. I feel like the PTSD diagnosis I was given was a scapegoat to keep me from having an autism diagnosis. I have had trauma yes but i dont have flash backs or nightmares. I did get an adhd diagnosis. So there is that.
@@EastElbow adhd is also neurodivergence, too. So you are validated in being on the spectrum, but I understand. I went for an Audhd diagnosis and learned I had high-masking autism with ptsd (which in some ways mimics adhd - but wasn’t present throughout my life). But I do have flashbacks.
PTSD isn't just nightmares and flashbacks. I don't know any neurodivergent person who doesn't meet the criteria for PTSD because they have triggers, avoidant behaviours, heightened anxiety and thought distortions as a result of trauma which always includes ableism. Because being neurodivergent basically guarantees extensive trauma, it actually makes it harder to diagnose neurodivergence later in life.
Omg the frog book really confused me 😂 its interesting to know they actually dont care about the story itself. Wonder if its the same deal with the "make up a story using these objects" part too?
Oh my god. I had no idea that is what the frog book was about??? Why do they all use the same book? So i was more interested in the clocks throughout which showed the passing of time. Also, were they frogs or toads. Also, where is this town? And who is the humans, i think i decided it could be he was a single middle aged man living with his mum. I also felt like i kinda cheated because im not good at making stuff up, so i didnt tell a story as such, i engaged the psychologist in a conversation to like, get her feedback and approval as we went through.
Yep I just had that today and I totally threw me! All I could do was say what I saw and I don’t think I looked at the assessor once actually now you mention it 😂 But I know my face spoke a thousand words, I scrunched my face, tried to look deeply and say what i saw which was very little other than the obvious and would say two or three things from each page and then say ‘that’s it next’ 😂 I got quite frustrated during that task 😂 and I’m still annoyed about it hours later!!!
I was so confused when my assessor pulled this out! Her explanation to me after was that I only talked about what the frogs were doing and gave no mention to any of the emotions depicted on the characters’ face. At the end of the day it’s not about whether or not you can tell a story, it’s how you tell the story. Along with all the other autistic shiz I did in the assessment, suffice to say I def got the diagnosis in the bag 😂
I got the flying pig book. I pointed out the flying pigs before we got to the page because you could see the shadows. (Was this also the frog book? I only remember the pigs.)
Not familiar with the frog book. But I did think of something funny. Maybe I would start telling the story of The Crying Game, because it ends with the former criminal in jail telling a frog story to the sort of love interest in the end😂😂😂
Omg my son had his diagnosis yesterday in Switzerland and he also had to look at the frog book! Crazy!!! I was weirded out by the book and so was my 5 yr old son. Why that particular book!!!??? I’m so curious 🤨
you're...supposed to....look at people when telling a story/read a book to a person? I am not as good with kids as I thought....also how do you engage with someone about a story about a frog? 😭
PLEASE tell me - how long did it take from referral to assessment to diagnosis? I've seen sources saying it will take 2-3 years, please tell me it's less than that!!!
God I hate frogs they make me feel so ick and gross 😂, I can’t describe it but I don’t mind looking at them but no way in hell am I picking it up 😂 we had a pond and I just couldn’t ever touch them 🤢 I’d have been so confused by the book, ‘tell me the story’ ‘but it doesn’t have words!!!??’ 😳🤷♀️😩😩
Ah yes! One funny rhing about the story i made up is that id invented a word for something i dont remember. So the assessor asked if Id made that up, yo which i replied no, the frogs in the story did. Lol, i dont remember any further contexts. This happend a while ago when i was young.
Not looking at someone & issuee with engsging woth others isnit always due to Austìsm.. these responses could be due to cultural norms but especially due to Trauma & CPTSD & Disocitive disorders that is alao its own Condition & not always related to Autism or ADHD... Hiw do these professionals differentiate between Autism &Trauma related Disociative disorders ??
Genuinely starting to think they did my assessment wrong, I’m from england, there was no frog book which both my autism brother and friend both got. And the lady who was talking to me spent half the time waffling about how she used to live in my house?????
I did not know that u were meant to make up a story... I was asked to tell the assessor what was happening in the book, so I just described the actions happening in each picture :///
Autistic autism assessor here... well done for telling everyone what we are looking for... 😂 now anyone who has watched this video will know what to do when on this part of the assessment (not that *everyone* will try and fake it, but *some* definitely do)
@@Munomanom Do you know what masking is? Most autistic people fake in the opposite direction, because people get mad when you don't do eye contact. This also makes them misreport their experiences, for example responding to "do you struggle with xyz" with "no" (thinking: I have figured out how to cope with it). My point it, I know sometimes psychology involves tricking people to get better results like with certain studies, but this isn't the best way to find things out in all circumstances and in my opinion, it's a bad approach with autism. Because most of what the person really experiences will not be visible to the doctor. Not all diagnosis are based on tests but on reported symptoms, I think autism should be like that.
I realize that, if I did a reassessment and was handed the frog book, it would be awkward because I’d be wanting to react naturally, and I’d be self conscious and not know what natural was. And okay, if you do assessments, maybe you have some experience with this, but - serious question - what the heck sort it person tries to fake it? Long waits or big bucks or both, and I’m just not seeing who fakes it knowingly. I guess, like someone else said, maybe an autistic person tries to do what they think they understand is expected, but that doesn’t return a false positive. To be honest, the type of test that requires someone to not know what the point is strikes me as problematic. My neuropsych evaluation included a personality test that I think was looking for personality disorders, but I didn’t pick up those cues. One question was if I ever failed to do something I said I would, and I chose “a bit,” because I can be disorganized, forgetful, etc., and I don’t like to represent myself as being more perfect than I am. That answer got flagged as “of concern,” at which point I figured out they must be looking for sociopathic tendencies, like I lie and don’t take my responsibility to others seriously. So I submit that the autistic desire to understand “why?” has valid reasons, and I feel kind of snotty toward evaluations that think confusing people gets more honest answers. And anyway, the Internet. Ella aside, you can’t possibly count on no one ever having heard what the puroose of that test is, especially anyone actually trying to cheat! The point of failure was that the assessor told her in the first place. (And IIRC, I think it was Simon Baron Cohen!)
There are a lot of other wordless books out there. And there are tons of other ways to ascertain if an individual is comfortable with engaging in a dialog that the other person has no power in that dialog. Give me a kid, and I can involve that child in the visual story. Another adult- absolutely not. Adults are weird and they're often looking to trip you up on every aspect of your being and more often, they're not genuine.
That's interesting, what I've seen before is that they're using the frog book to see whether you're capable of creating a story from the pictures rather than simply describing each picture. I guess maybe that was more of an old fashioned test from when they thought autistics had no imagination, and the frog book has managed to live on and get used in a different way.
you say "like autistic people are" as if we are just a separate clone box😮 Still stereotyping us when reality is.... We each vary more from any other autistic than we differ from any allistic or the whole batch of allistics. We all suffer from such inaccurate skew of reality. No benefit for one nor all.
I need to not watching any more videos about autism assessment. If I go in for an assessment, now I'm gonna know how they are assessing me and I won't be able to behave normally.
What do they think you were doing while you were telling this whole story that whole time? You were actually doing that. I'm feeling rather leary about the whole discipline of psychology.
I never saw a frog book at my assessment. And assessments are hours long so even if they used the frog book it would only be a part of the assessment. Eye contact isn't the only thing that they use to diagnose autism.
It doesn't matter what book or test they use She just explained that if you're not lookinh or engaging with the tester then you're being diagnosed as Autistic
@@robbieellis4840 I went through a 3-4 hour autism assessment. There is much more to it than not looking at the assessor during the assessment. Some autistic people are forced to look at people as children. So they learn to make eye contact. I fake eye contact by looking at people's eyebrows. I still got diagnosed with autism. There is a lot more than eye contact that goes into getting an autism diagnosis.
Um..not making eye contact or engaging is hardly a secret trait that only professionals know about. Anyway, are you really concerned with people faking it to get a diagnosis? It’s not like it comes with a cash prize - rather the opposite where I am.
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That frog book absolutely messed me up.
It highlighted to me a deficit which I hadn't even realised I had until I was forced into that situation.
In daily life I had learnt at some point to work around it by reading the content ahead of time, processing it and THEN telling the story.
Me too!!
A good reader would do that.
As you were describing what he did and what you did i was thinking of what i would do if i were told to do that. I'd be looking at the book and pictures and tell a story and... Wouldn't look up.
Then you told the end and I was like "But WHY would you engage or look at him?? You're telling a story from a book, duh!"
Same here. Maybe I'm autistic??
Wait... is THIS why so many ppl are being diagnosed recently? This frog book thing doesn't really seem legit. Unless it's only one of the criteria. Bc if that's a major part of the test, that may or may not be an accurate representation.
@@mellie4174 Do some online testing, there are free ones. You'll find out. It is a spectrum. Maybe you have some autistic traits but the question is, do they cause you problems? If your life is flowing and you're happy, just enjoy yourself. If you're facing the same problems again and again, it could be helpful to do some research and some testing.❤
@@bodyofhope no? there are so many diagnosed recently because doctors have finally realized it's a spectrum. we haven't massively increased in number, they're just now realizing that if your criteria is for severely traumatized male children then it's not actually effective.
They gave me that book to read and the first thing I did was ask if they’re frogs or toads…
Right? Everyone calls it the frog book and they look more like toads to me. But it looks like it's set in the US and I'm not familiar with their frogs
LOL! These things matter. At least to ND people.
I’m told that, when I was very young, I had a story book about a toad whose name was Bufo, after the scientific name. Apparently my folks and I were out on some trek with outing club naturalists, and I spotted a toad. Of course I called out “Bufo!” I gather the group was very impressed. 😂
@@rebeccataylor6885if it helps…frogs jump and toads walk! So if there were action shots of jumping then it might be frogs your dealing with, although perhaps in certain situations (like lily pad, to lily pad) toads can also pull it together to jump. I have seen the frog book, or been assessed, but I’m pretty sure I ought to be! 😂
@@mmcmiddlechild there's one species of frog that can neither swim nor jump lol I forgot the name though
Amphibians are my special interest and honestly I couldn't decide either.
Some had a wart or two, which are usually toad asociated. But some had no warts.
Their leg length and thickness suggests frog.
Their toes however looked like toad toes, but they were also toes similar to frogs who dig.
They weren't the body shape and didn't have the hands and webbing of typical flying frogs
But that didn't matter because they were using lily pads as flying vehicles.
Their ears weren't very visible which suggests frog?
Inconclusive.
The frog book still haunts me. I ranted about it for weeks. My friends were like that activity ruined you. It was like next level anxiety of squid game mixed w panel job interview & childbirth mixed in one. I always prided myself on my creativity. God damn
Frogs are my special interest. So that both messed me up and filled me with glee.
How did you develop this interest? Which kind of frogs are you the most drawn to?
@@wolfxlover I've just always liked nature. Loved learning about frogs' amazing adaptations.
Look up the Wolverine frog, or four eyed frog for novelty fun. But also the wood frog is a miracle of nature. It stops it's own heart for months on end to hibernate in Canada. It's body is frozen solid yet it lives. Scientists say it holds the key to successful cryogenics. In addition the phantasmal frog's toxin is being looked at by scientists. Their poison (neurotoxin based) is a painkiller 200 times more potent than morphine, but non-addictive. Scientists are trying to harness this in a safe way.
I have kept various types of frog throughout my adult life. The first ones I got were were such characters. They had very distinct personailities for such small creatures. As an example, Simon Cowell (frog) would only croak if I played Kylie on my speakers. He would otherwise fold his arms when I played other singers/artists.
Amphibians are the most threatened animal class in the world. They have declined by 41% over the past 20/30 years, more than any other class by far. We all know and care about the rhinos, or tigers. But amphibians, no one seems to care about them. Yet they hold the key to so many useful things.
Also am involved as a volunteer with saving some 'at risk' species in my country which is really great.
I see you like wolves? Would you like to info dump on me - seeing as I have had a fun time doing it to you. 😅
I remember getting really caught up in why was the clock in the kitchen saying an unrealistic time for the activity. Something like 3 and the frog was having breakfast! Found it v hard to move on from and was also like "a-ha! I found the problem!" 😂😂
Yes! I was stuck with all the clocks trying to work out the timeline
It was 11-something and a guy was eating a sandwich in his kitchen. I remember that, because it was one of the only times text was written on the page, but it was just the time.
I had the frog book too in the US! I also told a great story, and looking back on the assessment, I also didn’t make eye contact! I was totally focused on the frog fable. 😂💜
Is too in Switzerland
They also have it in Sweden
Same thing for me in the US. But they said I wasn’t autistic because I have a friend and autistic people dont like friends
The book is David Wiesner's "Tuesday", for anyone who wants to read it
Thank you so much, I was searching the comments for this information ❤❤❤
Hah! The Frog book!! Didn't know it was used elsewhere in the world!!!!
😂😂😂me neither
I’m terrified of frogs so I would throw the book and run out of the office crying 😂😂
Glad you highlighted the creativity issue, as there are lot of autistic people who are creative. As someone waiting for my assessment, I now know to be prepared!
Ooohhhh!! I was diagnosed 2 months ago and I always wondered what she got from the frog book. I felt so awkward and it was my first task so I just basically described each page rather than tell it as a story. But it makes sense they’re looking to see a performance… that’s not what they asked though! 😂
I can make up stories on the spot with fine details while staring at a person the whole time.
Improvised performances
The frog book was what made the person doing my testing say I wasn't autistic because I noted people's emotions from the pictures
The frog book was still used in 2020 when I was diagnosed! I hated it lol the lady kept asking me how the frog was feeling? Like idk its a frog 😂
Hahaha! I read about an autistic person who was asked by their therapist to "read" the book to neurotypical adults to see how they react; the neurotypicals couldn't help themselves and were trying to guess the characters' motivations for doing things...
The joys of ADOS assessment!
Oh my sparkle, I was just diagnosed a few days ago and they also gave me the frog story
I quite enjoyed the frog book. I remember they went flying over the countryside and there was a guy in his kitchen. What got me was that my assessor recorded "unusual phrases" that didn't seem so unusual to me. And how do they know what's unusual and keep that one straight in their minds!?
It would be interesting to find out how neurotypical people think, they seem to think we use "unusual phrases", misinterpret things, offend "normal" people, yet they can never give an objective, systematic analysis or explanation as to how they arrive at their conclusions.
😮 I had that book here in Canada, too! I totally thought it was about the content. We didnt get to the end of the book. I did get a diagnosis of ASD.
I also had that frog book but I got a diagnosis through private healthcare
Hahaha, that could have been me😂
I would have asked again if the story wasn't an interesting one as he has to listen to them all the time 😅
I'm screaming in Germany we also have the frog book. Until today I assumed it was to assess filling in blanks and picking up clues
Ahh the frog book. What I remember about that book is that I pointed out something to my doctor that she said she had never noticed before in her 12 years of doing these assessments. I also don't recall looking up at her until I was done 😂 still waiting on the discussion part of my assessment though.
What unique thing did you point out? Also it's been two months, any assessment update? :)
@@lettherebelightpink that towards the end the frogs start to fly around the other way. Really small detail, but she looked legitimately suprised. And I had to have another session with her for insurance because my insurance switched. But she said once it goes through it should only be a few weeks until we get to the discussion part
@@jessicatalbert6646 whoaaa you were so fast! And that is a cool little detail, how perceptive of you. Gosh, insurance is such a headache. Well done to you for being patient and staying on the ball, and good luck!!! xxxx
@@lettherebelightpink thank you, you're very kind 🩷
OMG! Yess!!! 😂I just finished my testing here in the States, and she used the frog book with me too! Oh and the 'how you brush your teeth' one as well!
AAAA I HAD THAT FROG BOOK TOO 😂😂😂 I had so many theories about the frogs. Some of the pictures i didn't understand. The woman was really quiet in most of it so i suppose she was analysing me.
Oh, so that's what the book and the story were about! 😂😅
I am from Poland and I'm not sure if "my" book had frogs in it (but that sounds strangly familiar...) but the diagnostic process was as I see the same 😂
I was exactly the same way, but my not interacting with the assessor at ALL apparently made no difference. I remember being nervous and I didn't look at her once because I thought my story was fun, but silly, and she just shrugged it off and said I was shy. Lol
Omg! They use that book for children too, or teenagers, I suppose. They used it when I was being assessed and I hated it because I was tired and not in a creative mood. But that makes so much sense now. I had to do another one about a boy dreaming and every page was different but each visually faded into the next. Absolutely painful. Have no idea if I even looked at the woman assessing me or not; was too focused on the task.
I had the frog book too!! I wondered why there was a 1940's gumshoe detective turning up at the end. Did he time travel😂
This was me. Also the end when I was tired and they wanted to discuss their interests and I thought it was the end of the assessment so I didn't ask them questions to prolong the experience 🙄
I love that book. It’s called Tuesday
That’s really interesting. One of the many ways I mask/camouflage is by purposefully interacting and including others in my conversations. I don’t naturally do this and only do it because it’s a very strong way to connect and put people at ease. I hate not feeling welcome in groups and know the feeling well. Exclusion really hurts so no matter how much I hate or don’t want to interact I still go the extra mile because I would never want someone to feel that way.
It’s exhausting and I can’t do it for very long but I put in the effort.
That wasn’t part of my assessment, and now I’m wondering how I would have done on these - what I have noticed about myself is that if I am talking to someone and “making eye contact,” it generally means I am lost in the thing I am thinking about and not really that aware they are there. I mean I am in a sense, but I’m monologuing and not really engaging. Maybe I look like I am, I don’t know.
If I’m thinking about and reacting to a virtual input, yes I’m probably looking at it and not other people. That’s kind of necessary for processing my thoughts. I keep hearing that this is a trait but I still don’t really believe that everyone doesn’t need to do this.
@@jimwilliams3816 after years of being told to look at people I do. I look right between their eyebrows. I told asser this but he still said I made eye contact 🤷
I had the frog book too - don't we have to keep it a secret? Seriously, I was looking at everything: the sweet little cat, and the valves (tubes:US) in the back of the TV.
I had no clue what the frog book was about. I had flying frogs and they were kind of maybe taken over humanity and it was kind of like a rough time, but I went into my own fantasy world and there was probably nobody else in the room … I got my diagnosis too
Canada here
Of course, I had them being social, but they were setting up the toys and so I was chitchatting with them, but they were behind me, and I was just looking forward and that didn’t bother me in the least, and then they purposely came around to be in front of me and I found that weird. We were communicating fine. They were back there doing our thing and we were having a little back-and-forth.
One of the reasons cited for my daughter getting her autism diagnosis was her insisting that are not frogs, but toads. She thought them saying frogs was a test and she was correcting them... They were correct, she is autistic.... With a wide knowledge about nature.
I never had the frog book in my assesment lol,
oh you're giving it away! I'm waiting to be assessed with the NHS, now I know!
Wait til you get the puzzle with no real solution....
@@KatieM786 rah!!!! :-o
I'll need to act like I'm really trying, without looking up, and while mumbling to myself. I see myself behaving like that in real life, so it's fair.
@@KatieM786What?! That sounds horrible 😅
I had this book in my assessment! I was quite young then and a minor, it's interesting that they do it for adults and minors with the same book, cool tho!
I bought that book! I love that book! I get so excited about wordless books! Ive gotten so many kids who were "bad readers" "hated reading" or were just intimidated by the multi levels of translation that comes with reading to really love books BECAUSE of wordless books. What the heck! This is so insulting. What are you supposed to do with a wordless book besides observe the pictures and create a story from them? Wordless books are DESIGNED to be an individual experience- they eliminate the need for prescribed story and interpretation AND validation from others! Theres no words, you HAVE to observe and interpret the images.... im going to get tossed from my diagnosis if they bring out wordless books! 😂😂😂
I failed with ados 2, because I was to good at masking. This silly book and afterwards the story with the toys.
I'm not sure why I failed mine... Oh they said because even though the conversation was awkward I still communicated well enough... Oh and because I hold down a job.. doesn't make sense to me which is why I'm not sure why. I'm thinking about seeking a second opinion
@@EastElbow that's one of the most invalidating arguments. In my country your doctor has to assign you to the assessment list.
The argument " but you have a job" was one of those, why he was sceptical for assigning me in the first place.
@@AutismusImJob I struggle at my job but they keep me around and work with me. Communication is a struggle. I thought that same thing. There are several high profile individuals who have autism that run their own companies.
I had this book too during my assessment in France and it messed with me so much ToT
Tha reminded me of an assiment I had in primery school. There was a few pictures we were supposed to make a story up for. I wrote a sentence or so for each picture and then wrote three pages of a story for what happend afterwards because I wanted to write my own ideas😂
I would really dislike being tricked like that by a professional to gain that kind of insight about me. I am now pleased my diagnosis assessment was different.
I haven't had that test but right away, I would have been suspicious about what he really wanted.
I just got my diagnosis saterday, and I HATED the frog book. So anyway, I am autistic and I am happy I got my diagnosis.
We got diagnosed the same time x
Omg the frog book!! I hated the frog book 😂
That frog book still haunts me.
the book is called Tuesday
I don’t know if we just do it differently in Australia or if it was just my Psychologist but my assessment was very boring. I just got asked lots of questions and then my mum was asked lots of questions and then I got my diagnosis haha
But why is the book called Tuesday? It has no mention of it and the clocks were wrong... dont get me started.
I just had my assessment in February and the person had to walk me through the frog book. I noticed tons of little tiny things and similarities, pointing them out, they had to go back through the book and check 🤣 Btw, I was diagnosed and I'm now referred for an ADHD assessment.
I thought the frog book was a little odd but i made my evaluator laugh so i guess i did good
I had a similar task with my test. I didnt engage with anyone during it either. I feel like the PTSD diagnosis I was given was a scapegoat to keep me from having an autism diagnosis. I have had trauma yes but i dont have flash backs or nightmares. I did get an adhd diagnosis. So there is that.
@@EastElbow adhd is also neurodivergence, too. So you are validated in being on the spectrum, but I understand. I went for an Audhd diagnosis and learned I had high-masking autism with ptsd (which in some ways mimics adhd - but wasn’t present throughout my life). But I do have flashbacks.
PTSD isn't just nightmares and flashbacks. I don't know any neurodivergent person who doesn't meet the criteria for PTSD because they have triggers, avoidant behaviours, heightened anxiety and thought distortions as a result of trauma which always includes ableism.
Because being neurodivergent basically guarantees extensive trauma, it actually makes it harder to diagnose neurodivergence later in life.
Omg the frog book really confused me 😂 its interesting to know they actually dont care about the story itself. Wonder if its the same deal with the "make up a story using these objects" part too?
That's a sort of new thing in the UK then because I don't remember it or something like it when I was diagnosed in 2007?
Oh my god that bloody frog book "Tuesday" - I got diagnosed 2016 too and I hated that book
Oh my god. I had no idea that is what the frog book was about??? Why do they all use the same book?
So i was more interested in the clocks throughout which showed the passing of time. Also, were they frogs or toads. Also, where is this town? And who is the humans, i think i decided it could be he was a single middle aged man living with his mum.
I also felt like i kinda cheated because im not good at making stuff up, so i didnt tell a story as such, i engaged the psychologist in a conversation to like, get her feedback and approval as we went through.
Yep I just had that today and I totally threw me! All I could do was say what I saw and I don’t think I looked at the assessor once actually now you mention it 😂
But I know my face spoke a thousand words, I scrunched my face, tried to look deeply and say what i saw which was very little other than the obvious and would say two or three things from each page and then say ‘that’s it next’ 😂
I got quite frustrated during that task 😂 and I’m still annoyed about it hours later!!!
I only look at and engage with people if I absolutely have to.
I would say "you should have told me explicitly if you wanted me to "read" the book AND make eye contact or otherwise engage with the listener".
I was so confused when my assessor pulled this out! Her explanation to me after was that I only talked about what the frogs were doing and gave no mention to any of the emotions depicted on the characters’ face. At the end of the day it’s not about whether or not you can tell a story, it’s how you tell the story. Along with all the other autistic shiz I did in the assessment, suffice to say I def got the diagnosis in the bag 😂
I think the book is call Thursday
Extra creative
Sounds like a trick question. Would a person “pass” if they made the eye contact etc. and said “I’m sorry I’m not that good at this stuff”?
I got the flying pig book.
I pointed out the flying pigs before we got to the page because you could see the shadows.
(Was this also the frog book? I only remember the pigs.)
Also a neurotypical person could possibly say "I can't read it to you, there are no words"
I was diagnosed in 2015 and I don't remember a single thing about the assessment 😂
There's a frog book? Okay, but now that I know the reason for the test... will I mess it up?
Not familiar with the frog book. But I did think of something funny. Maybe I would start telling the story of The Crying Game, because it ends with the former criminal in jail telling a frog story to the sort of love interest in the end😂😂😂
Omg my son had his diagnosis yesterday in Switzerland and he also had to look at the frog book! Crazy!!! I was weirded out by the book and so was my 5 yr old son. Why that particular book!!!??? I’m so curious 🤨
you're...supposed to....look at people when telling a story/read a book to a person? I am not as good with kids as I thought....also how do you engage with someone about a story about a frog? 😭
PLEASE tell me - how long did it take from referral to assessment to diagnosis? I've seen sources saying it will take 2-3 years, please tell me it's less than that!!!
i said they were going to speak to the stars xD
God I hate frogs they make me feel so ick and gross 😂, I can’t describe it but I don’t mind looking at them but no way in hell am I picking it up 😂 we had a pond and I just couldn’t ever touch them 🤢 I’d have been so confused by the book, ‘tell me the story’ ‘but it doesn’t have words!!!??’ 😳🤷♀️😩😩
ASD1 here.... I am so non-creative that i loathe fantasy and fiction plots because i like*cannot* grasp/engage/etc.
We tend to go to the extremes. Under sensitive, Oversensitive. Under talkative, over talkative. Uncreative, Super creative
waaaaiiittt.... IT'S NOT ABOUT THE STORY?! 😮 OMG, no one told me this! I never understood that part... 🤯
Ah yes! One funny rhing about the story i made up is that id invented a word for something i dont remember. So the assessor asked if Id made that up, yo which i replied no, the frogs in the story did. Lol, i dont remember any further contexts. This happend a while ago when i was young.
Not looking at someone & issuee with engsging woth others isnit always due to Austìsm.. these responses could be due to cultural norms but especially due to Trauma & CPTSD & Disocitive disorders that is alao its own Condition & not always related to Autism or ADHD... Hiw do these professionals differentiate between Autism &Trauma related Disociative disorders ??
Oooooooooooh.....
I would imagine reading the book as if to a kid and look at the book and not the person because kids hate that.
I had that too so weird frog ufos
Genuinely starting to think they did my assessment wrong, I’m from england, there was no frog book which both my autism brother and friend both got. And the lady who was talking to me spent half the time waffling about how she used to live in my house?????
I did not know that u were meant to make up a story... I was asked to tell the assessor what was happening in the book, so I just described the actions happening in each picture :///
What about imagining the sink and brushing teeth
Autistic autism assessor here... well done for telling everyone what we are looking for... 😂 now anyone who has watched this video will know what to do when on this part of the assessment (not that *everyone* will try and fake it, but *some* definitely do)
@@Munomanom Do you know what masking is? Most autistic people fake in the opposite direction, because people get mad when you don't do eye contact. This also makes them misreport their experiences, for example responding to "do you struggle with xyz" with "no" (thinking: I have figured out how to cope with it).
My point it, I know sometimes psychology involves tricking people to get better results like with certain studies, but this isn't the best way to find things out in all circumstances and in my opinion, it's a bad approach with autism. Because most of what the person really experiences will not be visible to the doctor. Not all diagnosis are based on tests but on reported symptoms, I think autism should be like that.
@@claudiag.9307 They won't understand. NTs just aren't capable of imagining other worlds.
I realize that, if I did a reassessment and was handed the frog book, it would be awkward because I’d be wanting to react naturally, and I’d be self conscious and not know what natural was. And okay, if you do assessments, maybe you have some experience with this, but - serious question - what the heck sort it person tries to fake it? Long waits or big bucks or both, and I’m just not seeing who fakes it knowingly. I guess, like someone else said, maybe an autistic person tries to do what they think they understand is expected, but that doesn’t return a false positive.
To be honest, the type of test that requires someone to not know what the point is strikes me as problematic. My neuropsych evaluation included a personality test that I think was looking for personality disorders, but I didn’t pick up those cues. One question was if I ever failed to do something I said I would, and I chose “a bit,” because I can be disorganized, forgetful, etc., and I don’t like to represent myself as being more perfect than I am. That answer got flagged as “of concern,” at which point I figured out they must be looking for sociopathic tendencies, like I lie and don’t take my responsibility to others seriously. So I submit that the autistic desire to understand “why?” has valid reasons, and I feel kind of snotty toward evaluations that think confusing people gets more honest answers.
And anyway, the Internet. Ella aside, you can’t possibly count on no one ever having heard what the puroose of that test is, especially anyone actually trying to cheat! The point of failure was that the assessor told her in the first place. (And IIRC, I think it was Simon Baron Cohen!)
There are a lot of other wordless books out there. And there are tons of other ways to ascertain if an individual is comfortable with engaging in a dialog that the other person has no power in that dialog. Give me a kid, and I can involve that child in the visual story. Another adult- absolutely not. Adults are weird and they're often looking to trip you up on every aspect of your being and more often, they're not genuine.
The frog book is weird
That's interesting, what I've seen before is that they're using the frog book to see whether you're capable of creating a story from the pictures rather than simply describing each picture. I guess maybe that was more of an old fashioned test from when they thought autistics had no imagination, and the frog book has managed to live on and get used in a different way.
Not had that on my assessment. I did mix up four and four though urgh
lg
Yeah I know this
now you spoiled it and i know what to do
I have autism and not creative at all.
you say "like autistic people are" as if we are just a separate clone box😮
Still stereotyping us when reality is....
We each vary more from any other autistic than we differ from any allistic or the whole batch of allistics.
We all suffer from such inaccurate skew of reality. No benefit for one nor all.
I need to not watching any more videos about autism assessment. If I go in for an assessment, now I'm gonna know how they are assessing me and I won't be able to behave normally.
What do they think you were doing while you were telling this whole story that whole time? You were actually doing that. I'm feeling rather leary about the whole discipline of psychology.
Well done, now people without Autism know how to get diagnosed as autistic
Not the case. Tuesday (the frog book) is only a tiny part of that assessment and includes lots of observations in different activities.
I never saw a frog book at my assessment. And assessments are hours long so even if they used the frog book it would only be a part of the assessment. Eye contact isn't the only thing that they use to diagnose autism.
It doesn't matter what book or test they use She just explained that if you're not lookinh or engaging with the tester then you're being diagnosed as Autistic
@@robbieellis4840 I went through a 3-4 hour autism assessment. There is much more to it than not looking at the assessor during the assessment.
Some autistic people are forced to look at people as children. So they learn to make eye contact. I fake eye contact by looking at people's eyebrows. I still got diagnosed with autism. There is a lot more than eye contact that goes into getting an autism diagnosis.
Um..not making eye contact or engaging is hardly a secret trait that only professionals know about. Anyway, are you really concerned with people faking it to get a diagnosis? It’s not like it comes with a cash prize
- rather the opposite where I am.