I only ever tuned into gears esports for the skins. I just dont watch streamers in general unless that particular person is entertaining. Watching esports in my opinion is like going to your buddies house when you were a kid and watching them play videogames. Why would I watch someone play Gears PvP when I could be playing Gears PvP? Watching other people play games with no entertaining commentary is just boring to me. I supported esports financially by buying chrome/black steel skins but I wont watch the streams beyond checking to see if a skin is available.
Because a lot of bad decisions were made in the game which made it terrible and people slowly stopped caring about the game. Personally I used to watch gears esports all the time in gears 4.
I have quite different views compared to you, however, this was a very well made video with some great valid points that I agree with. In my opinion, a game having an esports scene is really good, though things have a knock on effect. The base game was broken, endless server issues, ping issues, crazy high matchmaking times, disliked meta, disliked tuning and no doubt much more. Combined, this pushed away the general playerbase to the point that practically all that was left were the esports scene. I don't know how the scene can be funded if the general playerbase is not there anymore, or even what the reason would be to have an esports for a game that is commonly considered to be nothing more than a meme. That's a bad look. To be clear, I don't believe that the tuning changes etc directly impacted the esports scene at all. I think that it impacted the general playerbase, which in turn impacted the esports scene. Good video!
I actually hate watching eSports Gears. I remember when TC stipulated you had to tune in at a certain time in order to retrieve some skins. What a horrible experience.
Nothing really on Esports but hay if you happen to get any Dev's in the discussion, do me us all a solid and ask what up with the games servers. Because getting the internet lost symbol bottom screen is unacceptable.
Thanks! It's a "hobby channel" - as in we don't do it professionally. Because of this, there's often times (like now) where we have long gaps in content. But it also allows us to only make something that feels "worth it". I take pride in what I do (most of the time), so we're not gonna spam people with clickbait or pointless content. Hopefully I'll get the drive to make some more content as future games pick up :)
One thing I think deserves mentioning is the fact that most people (that I've talked to; big caveat) only tune in for the skins given away during the streams. Most people that I've talked to about Gears eSports, myself included, only care about the skins. I imagine that if it wasn't for the skins and giveaways, the view count would be much lower for the streams. As an aside, I personally don't care for eSports, but I did go to the Boston Open in April 2019. Without a doubt, the events are far more entertaining in person than just watching the stream. You can feel the energy of the crowd, be around fellow Gears fans, and meet various content creators and players. So if eSports isn't your thing, but a Gears event comes to your area, I recommend checking it out. Despite not following any of the teams or players, and being confused half the time, it was a lot of fun.
Thank you reddit commenter! This video topic is great thing that I was hoping for. This video was done really well and honestly the shift away from Exe to Esca with Gears4 and Gears5 really started to lose my interest. The game in general just started to become a bit of a chore to play or even to watch. I still love Gears and hold my fond memories dear but it really has became "A thing of the past" for me.
Great video. Some really interesting points and I agree with most of them, but have some nuances myself. Escalation in and of itself wasn't that complicated in Gears 4. As a casual player myself, just like you, I didn't have any problem picking up Escalation in Gears 4. Now shift to Gears 5 Escalation and then your point about overly complicated is completely true. There wasn't a lot of explanation for all the changes that occurred in Escalation between 4 and 5. Even simple things like placing weapons were very different and that pushed away a lot of causal players. I only touched Escalation in 5 for skins or events when I felt like it, other than that I never went near it. And I agree that as much as the announcers try and explain or keep up with the flow of the game it is just too chaotic or fast paced to always make sense. And it might just be me, but the overhype is really annoying to me. I can only watch it on mute now if I tune in for skins, I can't stand the announcers. One other thing you kinda touched on but needs to be expanded on is the following teams thing. Optic Gaming absolutely dominated Gears 4. There's no comparison for any other professional team in just about any other eSports to the amount of dominance they displayed. And what happened to them in Gears 5 you might ask? They got dropped by Optic. Not because they were a bad team and couldn't win tournaments and money, but because Gears eSports wasn't profitable for Optic. So how well do you think the Gears eSport scene will do when the most dominant team can't even stay on a payroll? (Note: I don't really follow eSports, but I heard the original Optic Team went to another eSports company together and did well for a while. Don't know all the details, don't care.) The point is, in no other sport or game would you see the perennial champions suddenly dropped from their team and disbanded. I think this is an overall indicator for the longevity of not only Gears eSports but eSports in general. I think you're absolutely right in that eSports matters as much to the viewers as it does to the 'pros'. If it isn't fun or easy enough to follow for the viewers then it's not going to last very long. With all the changes in TC leadership, who knows what Gears 6 will bring, but I hope they take a hard look at the eSports scene and what changed from 4 to 5 and make the right changes. I am still a die hard Gears fan, I just don't have the time or energy to play like I used to any more, so I really hope there is a Gears 6 and that TC will do it justice. I'm hoping they listened to enough player feedback and fix the issues to keep the franchise alive.
Gnashers should have been like they were in gow3 they’re way too unbalanced now. The coalition dropped the ball on so much. Especially maps. Great points you mentioned though!
I agree with everything Chaps is saying. Escalation is too complicated to ever serve as a spectator sport. Watching it is being overwhelmed in a wall of chaos. I appreciate the skill of the players; it's just no fun to watch.
The major factor is the game itself. It isn't popular at all. When games like CS, Apex Legends etc. do those kind of numbers on Twitch, anything MS would try with Gears seems like trying to move an immovable object. Halo, which is massively more popular than Gears as a franchise, isn't doing well at all too. Edit: I disagree with your point about Escalation being "difficult to understand". It's just too difficult for a game like Gears. CSGO's economy is complicated, but people love playing/watching it. TC should had brought back Execution or run the events with KOTH and CTF. The latter especially is pretty fun in 5 and I wish we had gotten it sooner in the series.
I agree, the Gears population just isn't there to really support it at the level they're trying to achieve. I think the complication of Escalation isn't necessary a "roadblock", but more of a "speedbump". It's not really THE thing stopping people from getting in, but it certainly slows them down. I think the main aspect of the complication is how difficult it is to convey all of the information to the viewers in an easily digestible fashion. I can't speak to CSGO though - or any esport really, as I've personally never been one to be captivated enough to really follow any.
It’s a double edged sword. If Gears ever got as popular as Apex, Fortnite or Warzone. It wouldn’t be Gears anymore. It would have lost its identity. The game would play super casual with some sort of battle Royale attached. Gears fans have to be realistic. They want dark, gritty, blooding action with a learning curve. But also want the game to be more popular. Both things ain’t happening.
@@kevinfinnerty8414 Indeed and really wanted the game to grow much faster than what it has in recent years, but sadly both 4 and 5 were the usual "first party game a bunch of people are really interested in in the beginning", only to die out.
It's because the game is fucked. Gears 5 is the epitome of what happens when developers insist on changing what doesn't need changing for the sake of change, only to make a game that is both less skillful and less fun, while also making the pro scene inaccessible to the average player by making these overcomplicated game modes no one asked for and incorporating confusing mechanics that turn away the new blood. Gears UE will always be the best Gears Of War in my honest opinion. It's just perfect, in every possible way. Literally the only thing I would change that's kind of busted is melee, but that's it. The way the maps and weapons were designed, the way cover works, the 4v4 aspect, and the simple but fun game modes. We didn't need this Escalation bullshit, just add some kind of last round tiebreaker mechanic to Execution/Warzone and that's it. You solved the only major problem at high level play, stalemates. We didn't need recoil or stopping power or wallbounce cancel or any of the dumb shit they added in later games that actually just makes the game worse for competitive play. Gears 1 was simple, easy to pick up, hard to master, rewarded skillful play and game knowledge, actually required skill in movement. It's just the bees knees. Anyone that says Gears 2-5 movement is more skillful is probably one of the dudes I 1v4 bodied in UE that never came back to the game (I'm looking at you RANK IS GOD the dude that abused the shit out of Retro in Gears 3 pubs, then got stomped in UE and never showed his face again fuck off skillless prick). I just wish someone at TC would have the balls to stand up and say "let's just makes Gears UE 2" and just kind of copy/paste that game's mechanics/design philosophy with new maps, weapons, and general QOL improvements (eg. being able to do a quick leap over a wall while running). That would honestly create a lot of hype around the game because ALL of the OG's would come back. I remember seeing some of the top Gears 3/4 players trying UE and saying it was really good. I get why people like the feeling of Gears 3 but they need to understand that game isn't sustainable. It falls apart at high level play because there's just too much bullshit. Gears 3 Old School and Gears 4 comp v1 tuning were what those games should have always been, but the devs have to cater to specific groups instead of just making the game the way it is and letting people adapt to it. It's why we got 2 fucking tunings in Gears 4. Then when they tried to finally create a universal tuning that's also competitive, it flopped because they kept insisting on NEW NEW NEW instead of acknowledging the old that actually worked and going back to the game's roots. Like why do we need recoil? What is the point? Gears 1 Lancer is objectively the strongest one, but it's also the one that takes the most skill to use at it's highest potential because there is nothing to hold your hand. If you miss you miss and the Gnasher guy runs up and bodies you. If you don't miss, the guy would be lucky to make it halfway to you. No stopping power needed, just some good aim. I don't get what's wrong with THAT game. The one that neither limits the player nor caters to them. It's just there for you to use, and if you can use it well you get rewarded. And yes, I can see the value in trying to bring in new blood, this game is difficult to grasp for newbies. At least the more complex dynamics are. But there are other ways to do that. Better matchmaking is one. More co-op modes. Better control options. Better multiplayer AI to practice. Literally a million things besides throwing in a noobcannon of some kind that "evens the playing field". No, just like Retro that shit doesn't work because the veteran players will abuse that kind of shit way harder than the newbies, and the newbies are gonna get stomped anyway. Just let the stomping happen naturally. You don't get better by winning all the time. Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but Gears is one of my favorites games of all times and it disgusts me how both Epic and TC are just utterly inept when it comes to making the game itself actually good. Like it's all right there in the first game, but no we have to cater to people and make the game arbitrarily require more/less skill gradually killing the game over several sequels because CHANGE. It also pisses me off that I can't even fucking play Gears UE anymore because they turned off the servers. Bunch of actual horse shit. Gears is dead to me. Unless Gears 6 is a Gears UE clone I'm not interested in the game. I'll download from gamepass to play the story and maybe some Horde if it's there but I'm not even touching multiplayer. I couldn't give a hot steaming rancid walrus shit about it anymore. I play a much much much more depressing game nowadays. It's called DEAD BY DAYLIGHT. If you are a masochist/sadist this is the game for you oh boiiiiiii. Tell them Otz sent you.
I only ever tuned into gears esports for the skins. I just dont watch streamers in general unless that particular person is entertaining. Watching esports in my opinion is like going to your buddies house when you were a kid and watching them play videogames. Why would I watch someone play Gears PvP when I could be playing Gears PvP? Watching other people play games with no entertaining commentary is just boring to me. I supported esports financially by buying chrome/black steel skins but I wont watch the streams beyond checking to see if a skin is available.
Because a lot of bad decisions were made in the game which made it terrible and people slowly stopped caring about the game. Personally I used to watch gears esports all the time in gears 4.
Miss gow 4 lol. Core is still alive atleast. Comp is dead tho
I have quite different views compared to you, however, this was a very well made video with some great valid points that I agree with.
In my opinion, a game having an esports scene is really good, though things have a knock on effect. The base game was broken, endless server issues, ping issues, crazy high matchmaking times, disliked meta, disliked tuning and no doubt much more. Combined, this pushed away the general playerbase to the point that practically all that was left were the esports scene. I don't know how the scene can be funded if the general playerbase is not there anymore, or even what the reason would be to have an esports for a game that is commonly considered to be nothing more than a meme. That's a bad look.
To be clear, I don't believe that the tuning changes etc directly impacted the esports scene at all. I think that it impacted the general playerbase, which in turn impacted the esports scene.
Good video!
I actually hate watching eSports Gears. I remember when TC stipulated you had to tune in at a certain time in order to retrieve some skins. What a horrible experience.
Nothing really on Esports but hay if you happen to get any Dev's in the discussion, do me us all a solid and ask what up with the games servers. Because getting the internet lost symbol bottom screen is unacceptable.
Man, this makes me sad. How does a channel this good only have 7.13K subs, people suck lol.
Thanks!
It's a "hobby channel" - as in we don't do it professionally. Because of this, there's often times (like now) where we have long gaps in content. But it also allows us to only make something that feels "worth it". I take pride in what I do (most of the time), so we're not gonna spam people with clickbait or pointless content.
Hopefully I'll get the drive to make some more content as future games pick up :)
@@TacCom Still, I’ve been watching and liking since GoW4/5.
One thing I think deserves mentioning is the fact that most people (that I've talked to; big caveat) only tune in for the skins given away during the streams. Most people that I've talked to about Gears eSports, myself included, only care about the skins. I imagine that if it wasn't for the skins and giveaways, the view count would be much lower for the streams.
As an aside, I personally don't care for eSports, but I did go to the Boston Open in April 2019. Without a doubt, the events are far more entertaining in person than just watching the stream. You can feel the energy of the crowd, be around fellow Gears fans, and meet various content creators and players. So if eSports isn't your thing, but a Gears event comes to your area, I recommend checking it out. Despite not following any of the teams or players, and being confused half the time, it was a lot of fun.
Well said, agree with all your points
Great Video
Thank you reddit commenter! This video topic is great thing that I was hoping for. This video was done really well and honestly the shift away from Exe to Esca with Gears4 and Gears5 really started to lose my interest. The game in general just started to become a bit of a chore to play or even to watch.
I still love Gears and hold my fond memories dear but it really has became "A thing of the past" for me.
Great video. Some really interesting points and I agree with most of them, but have some nuances myself.
Escalation in and of itself wasn't that complicated in Gears 4. As a casual player myself, just like you, I didn't have any problem picking up Escalation in Gears 4. Now shift to Gears 5 Escalation and then your point about overly complicated is completely true. There wasn't a lot of explanation for all the changes that occurred in Escalation between 4 and 5. Even simple things like placing weapons were very different and that pushed away a lot of causal players. I only touched Escalation in 5 for skins or events when I felt like it, other than that I never went near it. And I agree that as much as the announcers try and explain or keep up with the flow of the game it is just too chaotic or fast paced to always make sense. And it might just be me, but the overhype is really annoying to me. I can only watch it on mute now if I tune in for skins, I can't stand the announcers.
One other thing you kinda touched on but needs to be expanded on is the following teams thing. Optic Gaming absolutely dominated Gears 4. There's no comparison for any other professional team in just about any other eSports to the amount of dominance they displayed. And what happened to them in Gears 5 you might ask? They got dropped by Optic. Not because they were a bad team and couldn't win tournaments and money, but because Gears eSports wasn't profitable for Optic. So how well do you think the Gears eSport scene will do when the most dominant team can't even stay on a payroll? (Note: I don't really follow eSports, but I heard the original Optic Team went to another eSports company together and did well for a while. Don't know all the details, don't care.) The point is, in no other sport or game would you see the perennial champions suddenly dropped from their team and disbanded. I think this is an overall indicator for the longevity of not only Gears eSports but eSports in general.
I think you're absolutely right in that eSports matters as much to the viewers as it does to the 'pros'. If it isn't fun or easy enough to follow for the viewers then it's not going to last very long. With all the changes in TC leadership, who knows what Gears 6 will bring, but I hope they take a hard look at the eSports scene and what changed from 4 to 5 and make the right changes. I am still a die hard Gears fan, I just don't have the time or energy to play like I used to any more, so I really hope there is a Gears 6 and that TC will do it justice. I'm hoping they listened to enough player feedback and fix the issues to keep the franchise alive.
Gnashers should have been like they were in gow3 they’re way too unbalanced now. The coalition dropped the ball on so much. Especially maps. Great points you mentioned though!
I agree with everything Chaps is saying. Escalation is too complicated to ever serve as a spectator sport. Watching it is being overwhelmed in a wall of chaos.
I appreciate the skill of the players; it's just no fun to watch.
The major factor is the game itself. It isn't popular at all. When games like CS, Apex Legends etc. do those kind of numbers on Twitch, anything MS would try with Gears seems like trying to move an immovable object. Halo, which is massively more popular than Gears as a franchise, isn't doing well at all too.
Edit: I disagree with your point about Escalation being "difficult to understand". It's just too difficult for a game like Gears. CSGO's economy is complicated, but people love playing/watching it. TC should had brought back Execution or run the events with KOTH and CTF. The latter especially is pretty fun in 5 and I wish we had gotten it sooner in the series.
I agree, the Gears population just isn't there to really support it at the level they're trying to achieve.
I think the complication of Escalation isn't necessary a "roadblock", but more of a "speedbump". It's not really THE thing stopping people from getting in, but it certainly slows them down. I think the main aspect of the complication is how difficult it is to convey all of the information to the viewers in an easily digestible fashion.
I can't speak to CSGO though - or any esport really, as I've personally never been one to be captivated enough to really follow any.
It’s a double edged sword. If Gears ever got as popular as Apex, Fortnite or Warzone. It wouldn’t be Gears anymore. It would have lost its identity. The game would play super casual with some sort of battle Royale attached. Gears fans have to be realistic. They want dark, gritty, blooding action with a learning curve. But also want the game to be more popular. Both things ain’t happening.
@@kevinfinnerty8414 Indeed and really wanted the game to grow much faster than what it has in recent years, but sadly both 4 and 5 were the usual "first party game a bunch of people are really interested in in the beginning", only to die out.
It's because the game is fucked. Gears 5 is the epitome of what happens when developers insist on changing what doesn't need changing for the sake of change, only to make a game that is both less skillful and less fun, while also making the pro scene inaccessible to the average player by making these overcomplicated game modes no one asked for and incorporating confusing mechanics that turn away the new blood.
Gears UE will always be the best Gears Of War in my honest opinion. It's just perfect, in every possible way. Literally the only thing I would change that's kind of busted is melee, but that's it. The way the maps and weapons were designed, the way cover works, the 4v4 aspect, and the simple but fun game modes. We didn't need this Escalation bullshit, just add some kind of last round tiebreaker mechanic to Execution/Warzone and that's it. You solved the only major problem at high level play, stalemates. We didn't need recoil or stopping power or wallbounce cancel or any of the dumb shit they added in later games that actually just makes the game worse for competitive play. Gears 1 was simple, easy to pick up, hard to master, rewarded skillful play and game knowledge, actually required skill in movement. It's just the bees knees. Anyone that says Gears 2-5 movement is more skillful is probably one of the dudes I 1v4 bodied in UE that never came back to the game (I'm looking at you RANK IS GOD the dude that abused the shit out of Retro in Gears 3 pubs, then got stomped in UE and never showed his face again fuck off skillless prick).
I just wish someone at TC would have the balls to stand up and say "let's just makes Gears UE 2" and just kind of copy/paste that game's mechanics/design philosophy with new maps, weapons, and general QOL improvements (eg. being able to do a quick leap over a wall while running). That would honestly create a lot of hype around the game because ALL of the OG's would come back. I remember seeing some of the top Gears 3/4 players trying UE and saying it was really good. I get why people like the feeling of Gears 3 but they need to understand that game isn't sustainable. It falls apart at high level play because there's just too much bullshit. Gears 3 Old School and Gears 4 comp v1 tuning were what those games should have always been, but the devs have to cater to specific groups instead of just making the game the way it is and letting people adapt to it.
It's why we got 2 fucking tunings in Gears 4. Then when they tried to finally create a universal tuning that's also competitive, it flopped because they kept insisting on NEW NEW NEW instead of acknowledging the old that actually worked and going back to the game's roots. Like why do we need recoil? What is the point? Gears 1 Lancer is objectively the strongest one, but it's also the one that takes the most skill to use at it's highest potential because there is nothing to hold your hand. If you miss you miss and the Gnasher guy runs up and bodies you. If you don't miss, the guy would be lucky to make it halfway to you. No stopping power needed, just some good aim. I don't get what's wrong with THAT game. The one that neither limits the player nor caters to them. It's just there for you to use, and if you can use it well you get rewarded.
And yes, I can see the value in trying to bring in new blood, this game is difficult to grasp for newbies. At least the more complex dynamics are. But there are other ways to do that. Better matchmaking is one. More co-op modes. Better control options. Better multiplayer AI to practice. Literally a million things besides throwing in a noobcannon of some kind that "evens the playing field". No, just like Retro that shit doesn't work because the veteran players will abuse that kind of shit way harder than the newbies, and the newbies are gonna get stomped anyway. Just let the stomping happen naturally. You don't get better by winning all the time.
Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but Gears is one of my favorites games of all times and it disgusts me how both Epic and TC are just utterly inept when it comes to making the game itself actually good. Like it's all right there in the first game, but no we have to cater to people and make the game arbitrarily require more/less skill gradually killing the game over several sequels because CHANGE. It also pisses me off that I can't even fucking play Gears UE anymore because they turned off the servers. Bunch of actual horse shit.
Gears is dead to me. Unless Gears 6 is a Gears UE clone I'm not interested in the game. I'll download from gamepass to play the story and maybe some Horde if it's there but I'm not even touching multiplayer. I couldn't give a hot steaming rancid walrus shit about it anymore. I play a much much much more depressing game nowadays. It's called DEAD BY DAYLIGHT. If you are a masochist/sadist this is the game for you oh boiiiiiii. Tell them Otz sent you.