HOTAS vs HOSAS for Space sim
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- Опубликовано: 25 фев 2022
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Personally I prefer HOTAS for legit one reason: it feels more immersive. With Twin stick I can't seem to shake the arcadey nature of it, but with a throttle, man there's nothing like punching it to get out of a planets atmosphere
That was the thing that ALMOST made me go with hotas instead of hosas. While eventually I will get the throttle as well, for now I'll stick with dual stick with the left on the z-extension.
@@awesome_by_default I mean HOSAS makes a lot more sense on the face of it and is certainly more intuitive.
@@WhitefoxSpace I almost went with HOSAS, but then I looked down in the Sentinel in Star Citizen. It had a throttle soooooo.
Spaceships have more movement options than planes (up, down, left, right, forward, backward), so I think a HOSAS setup is actually more immersive and realistic.
@@CasabaHowitzer pedals actually make up for those axes, with HOTAS+pedals you have the same amount of axes if you can get ones with twist and toe brake, and then you retain the benefits of hosas... If you can get good with it. But yes hosas is certainly more intuitive.
I run a Virpil HOTASAS + Rudder Pedals for Elite Dangerous, and it is indeed the best of both worlds. The left-handed stick is an omni-directional thruster control with redundant button bindings for the commands I need most often, so it generally mirrors the hat switches on my throttle. I tend to go HOTAS while in Supercruise or while flying in straight lines with Flight Assist on, and I swap over to HOSAS when in combat, or when flying Flight Assist off frequently. I also have the alternate flight mode set up to swap thrusters to an analog stick on the throttle for landing or greater maneuvering in HOTAS mode. It is a complex and expensive setup but I love it to death.
With the VKB Gladiator EVO Premium you can also remove the spring for the Y axis and tighten the clutch so that you can turn that Y axis into a genuine throttle without re-centering.
indeed , and it's also much better build quality than almost any dedicated throttle unit as well . You get the best of both worlds ( want to use as HOSAS ? simply re-attach the spring ) . Seriously considering that as my setup ( also for flightsims , not just space simulators ) , else you'd need to invest massive amounts of cash for HOTAS AND pedals
@@IsisofDurnham This is what I moved onto after having a HOTAS+S setup since I play both SC and DCS. I run my second stick with a strong X-axis spring and Y-axis as a single direction clutch only. My pinky button is to swap forward and reverse thrust. Which is makes a lot more sense than most would think at first.
Basically unless I purposely induce twist or side motion it's a single engine throttle with the same button layout as a control stick. And for games like DCS, since those axis are bound to nothing, if I accidently induce input it makes not difference.
The downside to that is it isn't an on the fly change. You have to open the device and physically change it. That makes it not such a good good option for many people and situations.
@Brunnen_Gee it's an easy change and takes less than 5 minutes.
Even so, running it as a dry clutch instead of a spring gives you the advantage of being able to leave it like a throttle in space sims and keep the benefits of a stick in one package.
This still accurate? Also is this the gladiator NXT evo omni throttle, where's it's sold in one piece for 175USD? Gotta make sure, never know when confusion could happen
In the Expanse TV show, they used a stick and a 3D mouse to control their ship. I tried this setup and it it's surprisingly effective. You have the stick for attitude control and the 3D mouse for your thrusters. It's similar to dual sticks, but you simply push the 3D mouse towards the direction you want to move to control thrust, rather than using rotational axes of the second stick to control translational movement of the ship. The physical axis range is much shorter than a stick, so fine control is not as good, but it's very easy to figure out how to convert, say, 30 degrees forward and upward to your control inputs, which would take a lot of mental gymnastic to figure out on a dual stick setup.
Some ships were controlled with X56 Logi HOTAS if you looked closely :)
Some ships were controlled by 2 Thrustmasters sticks HOSAS.
And also in space, you can't control with a relative mouse which in Elite is unbalanced.
In space, no one can hear your sick cherry caps.
Expanse is all fake though. They're not filming that in space it's probably here on earth in a studio pretending to be a space ship.
@@SK-od6et What do you mean fake? The guy literally tried a 3D mouse and stick combo in a space sim
use a HOSAS setup and voice attack, i use voice attack for for landing gear, docking permission, power management, ect. it works so much better. If you pay the 10 or 15$ for the full version of VA you have unlimited profiles and commands. for immersion purposes i say "raise landing gear" and "lower landing gear" even though it is the same key press.
Which game is that?
Combine VoiceAttack with an HCS Voice Pack or two and it’s GOLD.
I was a firm believer, and I mean firm, on hotas. I loved it. Then I tried hosas, vbk omni throttle and vbk evo joystick. I was shocked how it felt, the ergonomics of the omni makes it still feel like a traditional throttle, but the extra control for thrusters strafe is superb. I now bought my own omni evo duel stick set up and love it.
Also, just to add, if you remove the springs of forward back axis of the stick, you can turn it into a traditional no return throttle wit the spring return of the strafe too
So you run two of them? The sideways sticks?
Or one vertical sick and one angle stick?
@G_L_0_0_M two sticks, one normal, one omni throttle. The throttle has a attachment which turns the grips sideways by 45 degree or so. It's superb. I play elite dangerous and all my controls are on the joysticks. I use voiceattck some other things but I play 90% of the time never having yo take my hands off the controls
@@briw4647 exactly what I’m likely gonna do
@G_L_0_0_M I removed one of the springs from my vkb onmi throttle, that means it stays in that position , not returning to centre. So I have forwards znd back for power. Left right for thrusters and twist for up and down trusters. Works great
I'm currently redesigning my 6DOF motion platform. I am going to explore the option of HOTASAS with a sliding mechanism on the left side to quickly switch from HOTAS to HOSAS, even mid-game. One of the biggest drawbacks of the motion platform currently is having to swap out controls between racing sims, flight sims, and space sims. Having controls that either slide or rotate out of the way is a solution worth exploring.
HOSAS really shines in ED if you fly FA Off, if you really want fine control over supercruise throttle you can set a hat to increase / decrease throttle same as Gamepad, as well as the pre-sets. I run HOSAS and one thing I did for the SRV was to use a thumb stick for the Throttle which felt much more natural than pushing the full stick around.
I head FA off on a mamba is a dream, but its so slippery without assist modes on. Still learning the ropes
@@Underb00t try the FDL. Completely outclasses the Mamba in maneuverability. Mamba is for boom & zoom...
I love how much thought you put into this. As I do so much flight simming, I find HOSAS to be very counter intuitive, and the very high quality DeltaSim mod for the ministick input that I put on my TM Warthog throttle is working beautifully in Star Citizen. I think it would take me forever to get used to a HOSAS due to years and years of muscle memory.
There's another solution for Elite that you didn't mention. Elite separates horizontal thrusters and main engines. You can bind them to two different analog axes, so if your stick has a throttle slider you can bind the engines to that, and the thrusters to the stick and get the best of both worlds. The only difference is the thruster bind only works in normal space (engines work in both normal space and supercruise), so you'd have to use the slider or the digital binds to control your speed in supercruise, which is fine since you rarely need rapid fine control in supercruise.
Using the t16000m as an example you can use the slider for supercruise/exploration throttle while using another axis for "trust" input.
That seems like a good idea
My dream set up would be a HOTAS, 100% keyboard, and voice-attack. I haven't tried HOSAS, but I like having a throttle. It feels more substantial than a stick. Also, I only really use my space/flight set up for Elite (where I'm not much of a combat pilot) and MS Flight Sim.
Thrustmaster T.16000M Flight Pack (HOTAS with rudder pedals).
I REALLY like the placement of the 3 hats on the throttle, which gives quick access to 3x4=12 controls. I use the small joystick on the back of the throttle for strafe and vertical thrust, as well as headlook. A thing to be aware of is that you NEED to loosen the "tightening screw" for the actual throttle itself, or else it will NOT glide very smoothly..! I was VERY happy when i found this fix just an hour ago 😊 (Move it to full throttle, and the "tightening screw" will line up with a hole underneath the device. Loosen this for a smoother experience.)
The joystick doesnt have as many buttons (on the actual stick itself) as some other alternatives, but its enough to cover the most important things that i want to have access to in a hurry (in Elite Dangerous). The other 16 buttons are nice if you dont want to use the keyboard, but as those buttons are not lit up, you have to fumble your way to them if you play in a dark room. A keyboard with custom colored backlights can be a better alternative, and even create some extra "ambiance".
The rudder pedals are a bit awkward to get used to (at least for me), but very intuitive and cool to use as gas pedal and break/reverse when driving the SRV in Elite Dangerous.
My dream setup eh? Chair mounted Hotasas with the left stick on a z-extension and a couple button boxes.
I have the same HOSAS setup and tend to use one of the stick buttons for a "mode" toggle where most of all the other buttons get new functionality for things I don't need to reach in a pinch.
That said, each Constellation Alpha has 31 buttons. The triggers and even the levers have two each, and all hat-like switches have a push-down switch. Takes some getting used to but if you can find a reasonably logical grouping for your buttons you do have a lot of placement options. I have a feeling I'll be experimenting and moving things around a lot since I've mainly focused on combat first. (Not because I'm good at it or do it a lot, but when I do I want it to feel natural.)
Use voice attack to solve the limited input issue. Have it take care of all the fluff, like turning lights on, bringing up weapons, deploying landing gear, etc.
Dual stick and throttle is the simple answer! you have the throttle so use it
I use a CH Products Flight- and Combat-stick in a HOSAS setup. The sticks are non twist, so I also added an analog thumb stick that is controlled by an arduino board.
The software is old but damn is it versatile. The software handles both sticks as one device so when you dedicate a shift button, you double the button count on the sticks. You can also make 3 profiles, which allows you to have 6 times the button count you'd normally have.
A rather inexpensive way to get around the button limitation is to use VoiceAttack to control many everyday things with your voice. I use it to do everything from control cargo scoops and landing gear, to loading maps, supercruise, hyperspace and more. You don't need voice files to use it, just a microphone and $10 to buy VoiceAttack. However, there are voice files available, both free and marketed, that can make the experience more enjoyable. For example, Sepulcher Geist published a large number of voice files for a smart ass Covas named Tetco that are free of charge, and that have kept me greatly entertained.
Roll, pitch, and yaw (if you have a twist function). I got into Star Citizen and learned that some players utilize the roll axis for yaw control, and the twist function for roll control. This blew my mind. I grew up in aviation and had never heard of this before. It still doesn't make sense to me personally, but it apparently works for some people. It's a game so play however works best for you but I still think it's weird.
xwing games were like that, with no option to change. i still play xwing alliance, but its a pain as, like you, i grown up in aviation, so i usually play other space sims with plane controls
For some reason this is how I play. I don't know why, but it comes as second nature to me.
I've been doing that for a long time. Then I changed and the adaptation period was hard because I've been doing the wrong thing for years and several space sims. I must say I was more acrobatic back then 😅
For space sims, I definitely prefer my HOTAS and use the thumb stick to control up/down and left/right thrusters. I also use my rudder pedals because I do not like twisting for yaw.
For military flight sims, HOTAS as well. For civilian flight sims, I guess I use a HOTAY where I replace the stick with my yoke The yoke has throttle levers, so in this case I am just using the throttle as a button box and have the throttle axis disabled.
100% agree twist grips sucks. It's very awkward to use, and I found and you dont get the same range of motion out of your wrist twisting left vs right.
I switched to HOSAS 3 month ago because is play ED in VR and want as much as i can get to control with my hands without watching for the button on the throttle, keyboard etc. I used 2 VKB Gladiotor NXT with the Omnithrottle (Z-Extension) on the way. With this setup i'm very 100% satisfied also when i'm explororing or do some PEW PEW :)
Back in the day I had an ASCII Sphere 360 for PS1.. It took some practice but that thing was awesome for close quarters games like Descent where you don't hold any one direction for long periods of time
Did over 1,000 hours on a HOTAS in Elite before switching to HOSAS on a whim. Saw an open box t16000 stick at Microcenter one day and said "fuck it, let's see what the hype is over dual sticks" and paired it with the stick from my X-56. I gotta say, it's amazing.
On my left stick (t16000) I have forward / reverse thrust (not throttle) to the Y axis, left / right strafe on the X axis, and up / down on the Z axis (twist). I tried up / down on the Y axis at first since it made more sense in my head at the time, but once I switched to how I have it now, everything just came naturally, I feel like Rocket from Guardians of the Galaxy when I fly now lol.
I was using the mini thumb sticks on the X-56 for the movements I do on the t16000 now, it's a vast improvement having a whole stick to do those movements with one hand now. Doing combat, and even docking, it's really clunky trying to use throttle instead of quick thrust movements to make precise adjustments. and when I'm in supercruise, I use the mini throttle on the base of the t16000 for throttle and have bindings for 100%, 75%, and 0% throttle.
There's nothing like flying a zippy small ship like a suped up Imperial Eagle with dual sticks. I can honestly say almost a quarter of my time playing Elite since switching to dual sticks has just been skimming my FC with said Eagle, toggling FA on and off, squeezing between the antennas and panels. It's so satisfying pulling off risky maneuvers at high speeds with dual sticks. Almost feels like flying a really responsive drone.
Highly recommend dual sticks, my ships are finally doing what I want them to do when I fly now.
As someone who's just getting into space sim joysticks, and therefore without the burden of having to battle years of muscle memory, I do prefer dual sticks. I've tried both setups and if you set the joysticks right, they feel pretty intuitive.
How I currently have it, the right stick is for rotation, with yaw on twist axis, so stick movement translates directly into ship movement. Left stick is for strafing, with throttle forward/backward on the twist axis, like a motorcycle, and strafe up/down on y axis. I am planning to upgrade to dual Alpha Primes, with z-extension, then the left stick will be used like a throttle without sacrificing the freedom of movement, with twist for up/down strafe.
Ideally, I'd like to get a control panel and MAYBE a throttle, mostly for speed limiter and those chill moments, where you can just relax and enjoy the immersive flight, without having to worry about the need for combat maneuvers 🙂
I also play flight simulator so i keep the same setup in space sims. I roll with the flightstick and yaw with pedals. I got a little joystick on my throttle for strafing in all direction.
If I’m just trying to mainly play space games do u still think the trifecta of hotas+pedals holds up as best option if it can be afforded?
Very good comparisson. Helped me a lot.
You can also do some spring trickery inside so your forward left stick axis doesn't spring back but it springs back from backward throttle
The other thing you can do for the throttle issue with HOSAS too in Elite, is that there is a binding for Forward/Reverse Thrust axis and a separate binding for Throttle Axis. So if you have a stick with a throttle on the base you can set that base throttle to throttle axis, that way you can just put that base throttle up if you're going to be flying forward for a long time.
What I do for my vertical left hand stick too is forward/back is on twist, and up down on Y and left right on X.
For the lack of buttons issue, I have the hat on the left stick directions act as modifiers for the buttons on the right stick. So I hold the left stick left hat, the buttons on the right stick do different things than if I'm not holding the left stick hat or holding it in a different direction.
Left stick is a Saitek ST290 Pro, Right stick is a VKB NXT Gladiator Pro. "Right stick" is technically between my legs, then for Odyssey on foot stuff I have a keyboard that sits between the left and right sticks, and then a mouse over on the right.
I am thinking I want to dual stick, VR, and voice attack for random stuff that doesn't need to be super responsive like lights, night vision, etc. Using a HOTAS currently but I want to get into AX and I do not enjoy the idea of trying to cold orbit with the thumbstick on my joystick or throttle.
VR means you don't need buttons to access the various panels, you just look at them. That saves 4 buttons already, plus is awesome for being able to look around while dogfighting (again avoiding godawful thumbsticks lol).
The main essentials can be split between the two joysticks complement of buttons. I love the idea of having alt fire on my left stick trigger; I hate using awkwardly placed buttons on my joystick for secondary weapons.
Things like landing gear, lights, some mode switches, and a bunch of other things can be voice attack. Pretty much anything that doesn't need to be instant like opening maps, FSS, what have you.
I have only ever used a HOSAS set up for space sims (Other than the arcade style pre 2000 games) .Coming from operating machines with joysticks it seemed more intuitive to me. As far as elite goes since upgrading from my original thrustmasters to the VKB Gladiator NXT Premiums, II now rarely ever touch my keyboard in game (certainly not while in flight) . As for throttle, when in super cruise Ii use a hat switch with the relative up and down to control throttle set to the default 12.5 % increments and the left (75%) and right (100%) with the center depress set to zero throttle Works a treat
I really like this idea, Im in the process of buying the omni and premium VKB NXT
I find the vkb gladiator evo with the omni throttle setup works really well in Elite since it has essentially a throttle slider and a switch on the base that works really well either as a continuous throttle or using the switch to increase/decrease throttle increments.
I don't play Elite anymore, just SC. Currently I use HOSAS, dual Gladiators, though I have also had two throttles on my rig as well for various things, such as using them as button boxes, speed/accel limiters, and mining controllers. But these days, just HOSAS, and GameTouch Controller for other things I don't need on the sticks.
I've been looking into getting a pair of the VKB Gladiators for my set up. They let you set the stick so that one axis will work like a throttle and then the other will drift back into position like a normal joystick. I think that will be my ideal dream set up. Sort of a HOSAS/HOTAS hybrid.
Probably going to get one Gladiator at a time...
This sounds awesome. Have you had a chance to try it yet?
I use both. I use rudder pedals for forward, backwards and yaw. And I bind the throttle (dual throttle) and the pedal with a program. And a control panel for extra key input. All virple hardware
great comparisons :D gonna start with hosas and then add a throttle when I can afford it just because it sounds like hosas is harder to learn.
Virpil Mongoost-50 CM2 on a WarBRD and a Mongoost-50 CM3 Throttle. (Oh, and a Thrustmaster plastic pedals)
6:50 - I use modifiers to multiply the number of available buttons, giving me enough options to cover everything. Like putting the ALT on the left trigger so that L-ALT+Button1 do another thing than just Button1. Still not enough? Then add another modifier on the Right trigger (or any highly available button which still let us click on other buttons while pushing it).
I was browsing the online stores for a left handed joystick and this shows up. Must be a sign! I use a standard twist joystick on my right and a diy usb encoder with an arcade stick with buttons on my left… i guess its like half a hosas because i still have to reach for the keys to strafe up/down.
Well since I play both flight and space sims. Warthog stick and throttle. With the throttle nubbin replaced with the Delta Sims mini stick upgrade for lateral and vertical thrust for combat. And for more precise I use the Thumb 4-way for fwd/rev and vertical thrust, and left right coolie hat for lateral thrust. Its definitely redundant for thrusters, but the way I play, I really only have half the buttons on the throttle, including the base, mapped anyway. So I can afford it that way
Hotas x52 is what I use. Love it alot in elite and star citizen.
You can also map the throttle on the second stick "twist" axis I think. Unintuitive, but that way you keep full controll in all axis.
You already have that on the pitch axis of the second stick in a HOSAS setup (the second stick is basically how left stick is used shooters on controllers or WASD on keyboards). Twist is much better for up/down. The advantage of a throttle is that it stays in the place where you set it to unlike a joystick - you don't get that from the twist axis either.
I've barely had time to try it yet but I now run dual stick, throttle and rudder pedals. The sticks are also FFB though I've yet to try and get that working. It's a lot but they're all custom designs so when you start making one eventually you just end up making all the control types.
Hotas + voice commands... this is the best
I do use a Hotas Setup with an Andriod Tablet and an Android Phone, both running Touch Portal. An App similar to the Stream Deck but with a lil bit more options in customizing Button Layout and functionality.
Got twin T 16000's and they're great. Learn't the routine to clean the twist axis sensors and they run fine but would love a pair of Virpils. Dream setup I suppose would be the New Zeland SimPit system with a dedicated room plus all the bells and whistles.
For twist, I recommend replacing the pot entirely with a higher quality one and snipping a piece of plastic that puts pressure on the twist pot internally that is not necessary. Search mouser for 774-251B12T104A2NB and search reddit for "Thrustmaster T16000 potentiometer issues look here for your repairs (New Owners can find preventative fixes in here too)"
I use HOMAS. Stick for strafing and Roll, mouse for Pitch, Yaw and weapons.
I play E:D and my goal is pretty much HOKAS. I don't think I'll ever need more than that. I have good key memory from decades of gaming, so there's no reason to spend money buying a new accessory and having to memorize it. Not having an actual throttle doesn't break immersion for me.
I finally got my hands on the x56 the issues that persist with it from their release is still there, however the solutions from before solved them so hotas for me, the ideal one is a full gaming chair triple monitor zero g from Imperator Works: Scorpion Gaming Chair after i get my house lmao hope your doing well. if you didnt know u got fans here all the way in the Caribbean :)
In Elite Dangerous you can also add a throttle as well as all six axis. I'm using HOSAS + one extra axis and it works perfectly. Can let go of the forward stick in most situations.
...oh. You mentioned it towards the end :-)
Currently I am using a HOTAS but I really want to convert over to a dual stick and throttle set up. Get the best of both worlds
For hosas in elite I use left hand twist for throttle and a hat for percents and forwards and backwards for ship up and down.
I repurpose some driving sim foot pedals for strafing and the like.
I can see it being a throttle replacement too.
I am using hosas for elite right now...but I dont use the twist on my left stick. For forwards and reverse thrust im using the clutch and throttle of my racing pedals leaving my y axis on the left stick for vertical thrust 👍
TASOT-B2 is now the best control system
I definitely prefer HOTAS. It's much more comfortable for trade/passengers and exploration, but I agree it's less sensible (though still very much usable) for combat.
Dream set up is definitely chair mounted Virpil Mongoose T-50 CM3 throttle with a right hand Constellation Alpha Prime on the CM3 base and Z Extention. Keeps both hand at a flat rest and the chair mounting helps with back and arm fatigue
New viewer here, came here because I'm getting into Star Citizen. These videos have been invaluable to me. I have the X52 Pro, but after this, I'm thinking maybe switching to a dual stick mode.
Thanks for the insight, much appreciated.
Hands on Keyboard and Stick still works best for me in Elite. You can bind every function conveniently, you can use WASD for strafing and Shift/Ctrl for Up/Down which is like you play most games anyway and, most importantly, you have easy access for copying system names from 3rd party websites. There's very few situations where the 25% increments for throttling on dedicated keys don't suffice and for those you can still easily feathertap W and D.
If you're really into hooning in FA off, I would look into HOSAS though - that's a situation where the extra granularity of analog vector thrusters pays off big-time.
Mouse & keyboard, dominating the skies ^^
hotas boy here, although I've got a little thumb throttle that I use in cruise. So I guess hotasas technically. Really amazing to use. I'd just like to mount my thrust joystick horizontally some time.
this was the video i needed just broke my x52pro and going to upgrade to vkb hosas instead of buying a new x52
Hotasasfop and it combines all into one multi-useable set of controls for all potential situations from Mining, to Exploring as also fighting if needed.
Yet in SC we still need to wait for the revamp of the input system as announced by YogiKlatt.
Gamepad, Two analogue sticks, d-pad, 2 triggers, 2 bumpers, 4 modifier buttons, 1 back button, 1 menu button. Everything in Elite is easily mapped, in fact I have spare bindings. I'd kinda like an extra axis, perhaps rudder pedals, so I could move yaw off the second stick and replace it with strafe thrusters, but I can already do that with a push of a button so maybe not worth it. Throttle isn't ideal on the bumpers, but I have set percentages mapped and that's mostly all I use.
I'd love a pair of chair mounted virpil alpha hosas with z offeset left hand stick, but deep down I think it would be bulky/clunky, restrictive seating position, exceedingly expensive (how'd I explain it to the missus?), a pain in the ball sack to setup and a steep learning curve to master. Still, can't help wondering & dreaming....
Fly dangerously CMDR's o7
Tado Chip runs a stick and game pad. Seems odd, but he is an amazing pilot. So I guess whatever works for you. I'll stick with HOTAS as I use the throttle a LOT. You can also run voice attack for some of the non-combat commands like landing gear, lights, etc. if you run out of button inputs.
My dream setup? An actual space combat ship with HUGE shields
6:00 - Personally, after using the left twist (Z-axis) for up/downward strafe for a few month, I switch it with the Y-axis which was managing the for/backward strafe.
Using the Y-axis to strafe up/downward give one more precision when piloting. While the Z-axis (left twist) is good enough to manage the stafe for/backward using speed limiter. Make me feel like accelerating with a bike. 😁
Are you using a horizontal mod? I found constant use of the vertical sticks in twist causes a lot of pain in my wrists. I found that vertical strafe isn't as useful as horizontal.
My setup is pretty much SC only mind you but here is why I did what I did.
Since in most dog fights you need to use you belly thrusters to turn in, you are constantly rolling to use vertical pitch, which uses up those thrusters. So I prefer leaving my yaw and vertical to the twist function, where it is used in seldom and in fine increments (such as landing). My pitch and roll is on the X-Y right stick and my lateral control and horizontal control are on my left X-Y.
What this does is allows me to do is give my fastest accelerator (forward thrust) and 2nd-3rd fastest accelerators (upward pitch and roll) primary control. So I can quickly control my interception speed (which decreases/increases your turn radius quicker than any other variable) in a very fine manner. I can also control the two biggest controls for aiming (pitch and roll) that use my strongest (outside of the main engine) thrusters the most.
What that leaves is yaw, vertical and horizontal. In order of nose direction yaw is the least useful, since it uses your side thrusters which are either weaker than your belly thrusters. When it also uses the belly thrusters (like in the F7 hornet) it uses them at a much lower rate than pitch up so to not induce roll. For strafing, vertical is the least useful, since it also depends on using some of your belly thrusters (with some top thrusters) it's ability to affect acceleration is lost heavily in a pitch up movement (the tightest movement for making circles, which is 95% of dogfighting). Furthermore, the strongest redirection you can use vertical in is to widen the nose up circle, which makes it easier for your enemy to cut in on you and kill you.
So that leaves horizontal. Where as vertical is already having a bunch of it's ability used up for pitch due to the belly thrusters being the second most powerful thruster and thus pitch being the most useful for aiming. Horizontal isn't as much. You still have those top thrusters in most space craft and the bottom thrusters only need to bleed off a small amount of their thrust to provide this movement.
What this means is that you can use horizontal to quickly throw yourself off line in a pitch up maneuver and throw off shots, further more, you can redirect the width of a corkscrew in and out on a whim without your orientation allowing someone who is attacking you to predict your movement, throwing even more shots off.
Sorry for the rant, figured I'd give some reasons why I and maybe some others are doing the opposite of you. On a side note I do believe that a twin horizontal stick setup might be able to do something ergonomically that a vertical HOSAS system might not. It would be interesting to test.
@@asymsolutions, interesting.
A few points:
1. No, I don't use an horizontal mod. But, I do put them to an angle so that they are as much as possible in the direction of my arms. Which reduce the strain using the twist.
Horizontal mod would probably be the best for ergonomic.
But using a rudder pedal to replace both twist with better axes would work too (did try and it was really good).
2. The insane acceleration in the upward direction is because of a "fix" CIG put. They have added a 2× factor in the upward direction output. Using a ship with VTOL capacity display this stupid fix quite easily: uncontrollable ships with higher acceleration up than forward. So they will probably remove it again once they finish their work with the G-Safe functionality.
3. the yaw is technically just as good as the pitch (at most a difference of a few ° arc). But as you are using the insane 2× on the upward acceleration, I can understand why you would stick to the roll instead.
4. As I don't do as much PvP since 3.8 (and the meta rising nightmare), I mostly use my joystick to do precise flight control. Quite good when doing some flight near by the ground at good speed.
5. In your case, I would recommend you to use a rudder pedals to replace your twist axis and gain even more precise control.
for the low buttons on 2 sticks: shouldn't you be able to have foot pedals be button modifiers? like if u have 2 foot pedals then that would be 3 times the inputs.
Well that settles it. I've been comparing the 2 and couldn't decide but it seems like HOSAS is the way to go.
the z-extension is what convinced me to go hosas.
Ill probably get a HOSAS setup with a throttle so i can adjust the speed to my liking. Afterimage Flight, showcases an amazing setup on his channel for Star Citizen.
You should add racing pedals for your forward and reverse thrust.
Holy shit, I never thought of that...
The setup I'm saving for is a pair of VKB Gladiator NXT's, left in the Omnithrottle config, and then using their THQ and SEM extension modules for inputs and for long cruise flying. Because all that? Still costs less than a gladiator and a decent standalone throttle from Virpil or TM.
Because I will have my cake and eat it too and none can stop me.
The dream, of course is a pair of Constellation Alphas (one with Z ext) and a Virpil mongoose throttle... But damn that's a COST.
Id have a biz between a viper from Battlestar Galactica and an N1 starfighter. The N1 has two sticks but they behave a bit like a steering wheel. Twitst your wrist left or right and ya roll. Pull/push you're pitching or down up. Lift the whole thing up/down while not pulling or pushing and youre applying lateral thrust. Now having a proper throttle like a viper i can still use full umputs on my right hand while i make necessary throttle adjustments if i need to. Proper foot pannels for yaw. Get the kwyboard and bouse setup next to me for navigation pannel and all the other stuff. I cant wait till Fdev completely abandon this game and people start modding the FUCK out of it.
On my left stick which is normal i use rotation for forward/reverse.
Then un/down/left/right become the thrusters
Base throttle on the left stick has my normal throttle input
Can you have 2 axis control the fwd/back thrust in elite? why not use both a hosas and throttle? or would that require the alternate flight controls options?
i like the hotas for elite dangerous because it is what the ships are in game but i'm pretty sure you can use dual t.1600m's and they have a slider you can use for throttle and it's only 130 bucks for the two-pack very low cost
Looking into buying the thrustmaster t1600, would you recommend hot as or hosts for it, I play Ed sc and dcs?
Be ready to make repairs (cleaning) of the yaw potentiometer or even to make a mod to turn it into a hall effect control. I have 3 and all have yaw jitter problems. I'm planing on replacing the cheap and s#!ty pot with a hall sensor and some magnets. It is a real shame they still build this otherwise good sticks with faulty elements.
They can keep calling it a wallet but it is a money clip with a bolted on card holder.
So I ordered the thrustmaster tflight hotas one for elite and is it plug n play or do I need to configure it I’m new to the hotas scene
I will have the most control inputs
HOTAS, keyboard (eventually I will build a control console to replace this), controller, and now second stick
Someday, voice too
I was thinking about switching to hosas, just got my first hotas and not digging that I can't control the throttle easier, that little cluck going forwards or back from the middle makes it hard to make really small throttle movements
I bet you have the X-52, That drove me nuts as well, you can remove the little nub and then the throttle control is way better. I am thinking of moving up from My X-52 and conflicted on HOSAS or HOTAS
I am running dual vkb gladiators, and I'm waiting for the adapter for the left stick similar to yours. I would like to get some control panels as well
Dream setup? Gotta a MotionSystems PS-3ROT-150V2 configured for Elite Dangerous. O7
And here I am on mouse and keyboard. Tbh, think I pref it but I've never used anything else
How about the horizontal Virpil moving like a collective for vertical movement? That's a wishlist question since I don't think that's currently possible...
I pretty much only do bounty hunting and combat so my ideal setup would be HOSAS with an omni throttle (same as the vipril z extension) on the left and a regular stick on the right.
Unfortunately my wallet doesn't love omni throttle sticks so I'll probably end up getting two t16000ms
What a fuckin mood this is lmao. @ me bout to buy the space duo for my first set from thrustmaster. But k need to play first lol I literally JUST got ED
Very surprised you didn't mention Hosam.
Hands-On-Stick-And-Mouse?
If you play ED with a controller, you increase and decrease thrust with the shoulder buttons (by default), the left and right sticks only controlling orientation and vertical/horizontal movement. The increments/decrements of the throttle are pretty much analog rather than stepped. Wouldn't this kind of setup work with a HOSAS setup as well?
2:30 - or we can also disable the flight assist. 😉
thank you.
Or, instead of using the preset speed increments in ED with a HOSAS, you could simply have a secondary bind for the standard W and S keys(and possibly bound to a controller}, that way you can still set throttle normally as well as having stick function. Seems better than the standard % increment buttons. ED also allows an alternate flight control setup at the touch of a key, so you can toggle between two sets flight controls on the fly. I've even used my cheap stick as throttle/thrusters while still using my mouse for pitch/yaw/roll. You can get pretty inventive in ED, especially coupled with voice controls. I can't speak much for SC, as my PC won't run it, a problem I hope to remedy soon.
Yep, ED with voice controls is very very cool.
On the SC PC spec problem:
Make sure you got a fast NVME SSD and atleast 16GB of RAM (32GB very much recommended) a CPU on par with an R5 3600 and a GPU on par with a GTX 1070. Those are the specs i've seen to run SC at a constant 50-60 FPS, while it does dip into the 30s in cities.
@@alexn8219 Right on. I just got my son an Omen with a Ryzen 5 5600, 16gb ram, a standard SSD 1tb, a 4tb HDD, and an RX 6600XT 8GB. I'm going to try it on his possibly. He had to have a win 10 or better for his school(online HS, with an IT cert), so he got a PC first. Was going to get two, but have to make sure I get a couple other things taken care of first.
I use both duel stick and a throttle at the same time for E.D. My throttle is a Mongoose T-50 and then two Constellation D Sticks, one mounted on each side of my chair. The throttle is mounted on a dedicated mount attached to my desk off to the left. It worked very well for about 6 months until both sticks went south. First one, then the other, both twist functions went bad within a month of each other. I will also say that the toggles in the throttle are not very good either.
Did disconnecting and reconnecting the grip from the base help (my Alpha looses Z every few months and that fixes it). I think the little PS2 plug inside can work loose...
@@sleepingdragon Yes I tried several things including that
@@Wyngs714 There was also a common problem with shorting in the metal plug/pins moving at the base end of the USB -XS9 cable (from computer to joystick base). Replacements are not expensive (from Virpil or your local electronics supplier).
Use voice attack......less buttons required 👍
With how many axis's you get with a Virpil CM3 and Con-Alpha, I don't see the advantages of a HOSAS in any flight/space sims. Indeed, you'd be hard pressed to need a foot pedal setup, either.
Where I can see a HOSAS really shining would be in mech sim games. But you'd absolutely need pedals and one or two button boxes, assuming the mech game in question was based on realistic controls and not arcade controls. I think only Strike Suit Zero comes close, and it's still very arcade-y. I'd love to know if there's another mech game out there that's sim-heavy.
Not very popular apparently, but Xbox Elite controller for me. Pitch and roll on the left stick, strafe up/down and yaw on the right stick and strafe left/right on the bottom paddles. Then rudder pedals for strafe forward/reverse
Dream control? I guess the answer is very obvious - something like neural link. :)
Not enough new game support joystick!
If you Use footcontrols u can make up the negatives of Hotas. (My experiance as a Player bountyhunter in Elite)
I have a HOSAS but I want to try HOTAS with foot pedals.
I’d add a HOSAS setup to a racing sim.. do you think it is a good idea to use accelerator and clutch as thrusters forward and backwards? Can it be done? Thanks.
I'd say it can totally be done, but I'd also say that using it for strafing makes more sense, like the rudder pedals for a plane or helicopter.
That setup is more suited for HOTAS though and would be a bit redundant for HOSAS, yes.
On HOSAS it would be absolutely be a great throttle replacement. Even if, 'from an aviation sense' it's weird lol.
For anyone with the Virpil button box with the landing gear lever. Can this be used for throttle? Looks like it can and I was thinking of putting notches in the cam for the quarter throttle increments. This would be used strictly for Super Cruise.
It has fixed positions. So it could be used to 0% 75% and 100%
@@DowntoEarthAstronomy Thanks for the direct and prompt response, and thanks for all the awesome Elite Dangerous videos! Loved the Sidewinder Thargoid video, intense. I'm not there yet which is why I have some of these questions.
Did you consider using it for Super Cruise? If/when you have a moment can you let me know your thoughts on this idea? I am very close to attempting to purchase the full kit and this is one of the sticking points for me. I hadn't thought of button binds and that was mentioned by someone in one of your other videos. But I feel like the landing gear lever would be a great middle ground and add those extra buttons. I was aware of the notch at 75%, and I would add at least the one notch at 50% for combat maneuvering. I have found that the throttle can be set to 50% and will return there when your forward/reverse thrusters aren't in use.
I had one other question, if you have time. Do you find in your combat time with the Z extension that you are using up/down thrusters more (which you mentioned was set as twist) or forward/reverse thrusters? I ask because I was thinking of setting forward/reverse with twist (like a motorcycle) as I seem to use this relatively less and it would be less strain on my wrist, but I have not gotten into battles much yet. I also found it gave more fine control for left/right aiming when I took the time to swap my right stick yaw with roll (from twist to X axis), and my thinking is the same for vertical thrust fine control. Right now I have a left stick with up/down set to vertical, and I don't use the twist because as you pointed out, it seems odd to assign forward/reverse to twist on a regular stick.
Very curious on your thoughts here. Thanks again.
what do you think of an omni throttle