Ted: please keep telling us exactly what your honest thoughts are on these pianos you are reviewing. Sometimes it feels like Patrick is trying to either be too diplomatic and not say anything negative about any pianos, or even try to soften up what Ted is saying. I'm sure I speak for everyone here: we want honest reviews, don't need to hear that "all of these pianos are great" as that's not a helpful comment.
Honest doesn´t mean biased. These pianos are entry level pianos. An experienced player as Ted may value different things. Yes we need an honest review, but it has to be a flat review within the range. At points it sounded like someone was trying to call the CLP 725 an worthless product, which I don´t agree. (I don´t own any of these products).
I think you should have played the same song for both pianos. It was much harder to judge because I more liked the grand piano piece played on the Yamaha, even though I've been leaning towards a Kawai.
I prefer the sound of the Yamaha CLP-725 for a simple reason: it has a flat midrange. The Kawai CN201 has a "V"-shape equalization curve applied to the sample. Very simple to check: record Ted playing, open the audio sample in a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), open a parametric equalizer and bell-boost the 1 kHz frequency by 10 dB. Then you will get a sound profile similar to the Yamaha CLP-725 (I just did that test). The CN201 has a crunchy sound similar to Roland pianos because they also give their pianos a "V"-shape EQ curve. Acoustic pianos cannot produce a "V"-shape sound profile, this type of sound can only be produced by digitally manipulating the sample, as Kawai is doing here. Kawai has 4 different levels of SK-EX recreations: HI, PHI, HI-XL, and SK-EX Rendering. The CN201 uses the PHI (Progressive Harmonic Imaging), which is the second lowest. You have to wait to the SK-EX Rendering engine to get a flatter midrange. Yamaha offers the same CFX tone generator in their Clavinova line. The differences in a CLP-725 and CLP-785 is in the action, speaker system, and extra features. But they don't give you a lower grade tone generator with a compressed boomy sound profile, like Kawai does. But regardless of quality of tone generator, the one thing that Kawai should do is this: don't scoop out the midrange, don't give a digital piano a "V"-shape equalization curve sound profile, particularly for people interested in classical music. It is OK for pop pianos, but the CN201 is not a pop piano. I have played several acoustic Kawai pianos, such as the K15, K200, K500, GL-10, GL-30, GL50, GX2, and they all sound great. So, this issue has nothing to do with the actual acoustic pianos, but with the way the sample is processed, particularly in their lower-grade tone generators.
I have just published a question (copy below) and have now read your comment. That helps me a lot! My question was: "Who can help me choose between Yamaha Clavinova CLP 725 and Kawai CN 201? (both have about the same price in Europe). The dealer has recommended Kawai CN 201. I have played on both and find the Kawai keyboard a bit "springy" and unfamiliar. I liked Yamaha better in this respect, it's more like an acoustic piano, or am I wrong? It really seems like Ted doesn't like Yamaha. But is it perhaps more suitable for me after all? I only play classical music, am no longer a beginner and am looking for an instrument to practise on, partly with headphones in a small flat. The sound and keyboard should be similar to an acoustic piano and it shouldn't be very big. All other electronic features are not important to me ...."
Just teste the CN201 today an get exactly this sensation, PLUS there is NO reverb... Yamahas (ydp 165, CLP725) has a very good and interesting reverb, that same way we hear on acoustic pianos... Did not get that in Rolands or Kawai digitals... For now, here, it's an easy WIN for yamaha
Both Kawai CN201 and Yamaha CLP 725 has the same 40 watts, that comment was a little biased against Yamaha. Kawai cabinet is a little bigger, but it only has 192 polyphony versus 256 on the Yamaha, a bigger cabinet doesn´t mean a better digital piano. Yes, I agree the Yamaha CLP-725 is a glorified YDP, but it is not that much more expensive. It has better action, VRM, Binaural sample and a little extra features. Kawai is newer, has a better interface in the console and a few extra sounds you may never use. I think both pianos are will positioned as they are and very decent entry level products. I would pick a CLP 725 over YDP-165 everytime. The only reason to buy a YDP is a tight budget. Kawai and Yamaha are very similar products and the choice will be on what features are more important to you. Still I give this review a thumbs up as I love to listen Ted play.
That comment about the speaker system was wayy too biased. The truth of the matter is this. Yamaha dwarfs all these digital piano companies in terms of the amplification/speaker performance. And that is obviously due to Yamaha’s expertise in the pro audio industry. They know more than anyone on how to make a class leading audio system. Why do you think Kawai felt the need to partner up with Onkyo when the Yamaha clp-600 series came out? Specifically the 685. Because they knew the sound system in that thing was miles ahead of the competition. Its not just that.. Even if you compare the entry level pianos say p125 and es120.. Sure the Kawai’s samples are better but the p125 sounds more fuller when played through the speakers. You almost get surprised by how much bass those two tiny amplifiers produce. Not to be disrespectful or anything, but these guys can atleast give credit to a product where credit is due. And not be biased just because they receive extra commission on the sale of a particular piano..
Could you please advise, why would you choose 725 over 165? I tried them both in the shop and did not notice a huge difference in the action, although everyone says it should be obvious. The price difference is around 250 Euros, so I am hesitant whether the upgrade is worth it. Thank you!
I’ve currently playing the CN25 and it has a great action and nice sound. I’m busy upgrading and my CA701 is on order from Japan. Seems like the CN201 vs CLP725 is a no brainer. Much newer technology with the Kawai. I tried all the top CLP range and prefer the feel of Kawai, but Yamaha top end has more “toys” but not enough to tempt me.
Who can help me choose between Yamaha Clavinova CLP 725 and Kawai CN 201? (both have about the same price in Europe). The dealer has recommended Kawai CN 201. I have played on both and find the Kawai keyboard a bit "springy" and unfamiliar. I liked Yamaha better in this respect, it's more like an acoustic piano, or am I wrong? It really seems like Ted doesn't like Yamaha. But is it perhaps more suitable for me after all? I only play classical music, am no longer a beginner and am looking for an instrument to practise on, partly with headphones in a small flat. The sound and keyboard should be similar to an acoustic piano and it shouldn't be very big. All other electronic features are not important to me. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
Ted: please keep telling us exactly what your honest thoughts are on these pianos you are reviewing. Sometimes it feels like Patrick is trying to either be too diplomatic and not say anything negative about any pianos, or even try to soften up what Ted is saying. I'm sure I speak for everyone here: we want honest reviews, don't need to hear that "all of these pianos are great" as that's not a helpful comment.
Honest doesn´t mean biased. These pianos are entry level pianos. An experienced player as Ted may value different things. Yes we need an honest review, but it has to be a flat review within the range. At points it sounded like someone was trying to call the CLP 725 an worthless product, which I don´t agree. (I don´t own any of these products).
Ted sure doesn’t like the CLP-725.
100% agree!!!
I think you should have played the same song for both pianos. It was much harder to judge because I more liked the grand piano piece played on the Yamaha, even though I've been leaning towards a Kawai.
I prefer the sound of the Yamaha CLP-725 for a simple reason: it has a flat midrange. The Kawai CN201 has a "V"-shape equalization curve applied to the sample. Very simple to check: record Ted playing, open the audio sample in a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), open a parametric equalizer and bell-boost the 1 kHz frequency by 10 dB. Then you will get a sound profile similar to the Yamaha CLP-725 (I just did that test). The CN201 has a crunchy sound similar to Roland pianos because they also give their pianos a "V"-shape EQ curve. Acoustic pianos cannot produce a "V"-shape sound profile, this type of sound can only be produced by digitally manipulating the sample, as Kawai is doing here.
Kawai has 4 different levels of SK-EX recreations: HI, PHI, HI-XL, and SK-EX Rendering. The CN201 uses the PHI (Progressive Harmonic Imaging), which is the second lowest. You have to wait to the SK-EX Rendering engine to get a flatter midrange.
Yamaha offers the same CFX tone generator in their Clavinova line. The differences in a CLP-725 and CLP-785 is in the action, speaker system, and extra features. But they don't give you a lower grade tone generator with a compressed boomy sound profile, like Kawai does.
But regardless of quality of tone generator, the one thing that Kawai should do is this: don't scoop out the midrange, don't give a digital piano a "V"-shape equalization curve sound profile, particularly for people interested in classical music. It is OK for pop pianos, but the CN201 is not a pop piano.
I have played several acoustic Kawai pianos, such as the K15, K200, K500, GL-10, GL-30, GL50, GX2, and they all sound great. So, this issue has nothing to do with the actual acoustic pianos, but with the way the sample is processed, particularly in their lower-grade tone generators.
Yes, I noticed that the CN201 doesn't sound realistic. Can it be adjusted in settings to sound more like an acoustic piano?
I have just published a question (copy below) and have now read your comment. That helps me a lot!
My question was:
"Who can help me choose between Yamaha Clavinova CLP 725 and Kawai CN 201? (both have about the same price in Europe). The dealer has recommended Kawai CN 201. I have played on both and find the Kawai keyboard a bit "springy" and unfamiliar. I liked Yamaha better in this respect, it's more like an acoustic piano, or am I wrong? It really seems like Ted doesn't like Yamaha. But is it perhaps more suitable for me after all? I only play classical music, am no longer a beginner and am looking for an instrument to practise on, partly with headphones in a small flat. The sound and keyboard should be similar to an acoustic piano and it shouldn't be very big. All other electronic features are not important to me ...."
What do you think about Casio ap470? Does it also have this V shape ?
@@Dacapoelcodaa Hi. I haven't played the AP470, so I really don't know.
Just teste the CN201 today an get exactly this sensation, PLUS there is NO reverb... Yamahas (ydp 165, CLP725) has a very good and interesting reverb, that same way we hear on acoustic pianos... Did not get that in Rolands or Kawai digitals... For now, here, it's an easy WIN for yamaha
i was just desperately looking for that comparison. many thanks!
What about cn201 vs P515?
Both Kawai CN201 and Yamaha CLP 725 has the same 40 watts, that comment was a little biased against Yamaha. Kawai cabinet is a little bigger, but it only has 192 polyphony versus 256 on the Yamaha, a bigger cabinet doesn´t mean a better digital piano. Yes, I agree the Yamaha CLP-725 is a glorified YDP, but it is not that much more expensive. It has better action, VRM, Binaural sample and a little extra features. Kawai is newer, has a better interface in the console and a few extra sounds you may never use. I think both pianos are will positioned as they are and very decent entry level products. I would pick a CLP 725 over YDP-165 everytime. The only reason to buy a YDP is a tight budget. Kawai and Yamaha are very similar products and the choice will be on what features are more important to you. Still I give this review a thumbs up as I love to listen Ted play.
That comment about the speaker system was wayy too biased. The truth of the matter is this. Yamaha dwarfs all these digital piano companies in terms of the amplification/speaker performance. And that is obviously due to Yamaha’s expertise in the pro audio industry. They know more than anyone on how to make a class leading audio system. Why do you think Kawai felt the need to partner up with Onkyo when the Yamaha clp-600 series came out? Specifically the 685. Because they knew the sound system in that thing was miles ahead of the competition. Its not just that.. Even if you compare the entry level pianos say p125 and es120.. Sure the Kawai’s samples are better but the p125 sounds more fuller when played through the speakers. You almost get surprised by how much bass those two tiny amplifiers produce. Not to be disrespectful or anything, but these guys can atleast give credit to a product where credit is due. And not be biased just because they receive extra commission on the sale of a particular piano..
Could you please advise, why would you choose 725 over 165? I tried them both in the shop and did not notice a huge difference in the action, although everyone says it should be obvious. The price difference is around 250 Euros, so I am hesitant whether the upgrade is worth it. Thank you!
This channel is in general way too biased..
I’ve currently playing the CN25 and it has a great action and nice sound. I’m busy upgrading and my CA701 is on order from Japan. Seems like the CN201 vs CLP725 is a no brainer. Much newer technology with the Kawai. I tried all the top CLP range and prefer the feel of Kawai, but Yamaha top end has more “toys” but not enough to tempt me.
I agree. Kawai is a much better instrument. I just got the CA49. It blows Yamaha out of the water!
Whats that oldschool yamaha in the back?
Why didn’t they make the CN201 with 256 polyphony :/
Who can help me choose between Yamaha Clavinova CLP 725 and Kawai CN 201? (both have about the same price in Europe). The dealer has recommended Kawai CN 201. I have played on both and find the Kawai keyboard a bit "springy" and unfamiliar. I liked Yamaha better in this respect, it's more like an acoustic piano, or am I wrong? It really seems like Ted doesn't like Yamaha. But is it perhaps more suitable for me after all?
I only play classical music, am no longer a beginner and am looking for an instrument to practise on, partly with headphones in a small flat. The sound and keyboard should be similar to an acoustic piano and it shouldn't be very big. All other electronic features are not important to me.
Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
Which did you end up getting?
Yamaha clp 725, for all the reasons I mentioned above. I don't regret this choice and can really recommend it.