Interesting that you say the Yamaha action 785 is slightly lighter than the Kawai CA 901 - as i have seen it said that other Yamaha actions are heavy, and that Kawai (which I prefer) is a bit lighter than a real grand piano. Thanks for the review.
When played side by side, I found the action on the CLP775/785 to be heavier than the GF3 on the CA99 (same like on the CA901). The main difference between the CLP775 and CLP785 actionwise is that the latter has got counterweights. Interestingly, both CLP's have LINEARLY graded weights, meaning that there's a different weight for each 88 keys, unlike the rest of manufacturers who make it 4 different weight zones only accross the entire keyboard. It's just naive to say the one feels more like a real grand, which grand? I've played some very fine Bechsteins where my hands where just flying and I come from a CA97 (GF2), so not all pianos are heavier than Kawai's GF actions and the CLP is not weighted after some universal standard so you can say it feels more like a real grand. I enjoyed both but liked the sounds more on the Kawai. Unfortunately, the Kawai's are known to have some QC issues, the "real wooden" keys are very nice but they're prone to develop some clicking/stiffness (random keys) due to its complexity, whether the experience is worth the risk that's something arguable and hugely depends on how serious and reliable your retailer/disributor is.
I would argue that the complexity of the Grand Feel action is not the main reason for the issues with sticky keys. Rather, it is bad engineering. They use a soft dampening material as a cushion-like layer under the contact surface at the key's end. Because a soft material is used, it gets damaged and deformed after some use. Then the metal part which hits it makes a depression into the top layer and into the soft material and that depression then prevents the metal part from releasing sometimes. It results in the so-called sticky keys effect. There are some videos which explain it in more detail and suggest a work-around, e.g.: ruclips.net/video/Iz3lqUEc3Do/видео.html Replacing the top contact surface of the pad with a new, perhaps slightly stronger contact surface is a work-around which works. But this modification might change the key characteristics a little bit.
@@pbasista I'm very well aware of the issue on the GF action, I myself had it and did repair it several times, replaced all pads and then again a pad here and a pad there every now and then, a pain in the neck honestly, I wouldn't call that a reliable action buy rather a faulty design. They fixed that issue with the latest GF3 which completely dispenses with the pads (cushions) and lets the hammer rest directly upon a plastic cap that they've added to the end of the key, now I doubt that the friction metal against plastic will hold on well, time will tell.
For the first time I must say the Yamaha has the edge, sound is a little softer and a little more sweet, I have played Kawai digitals for 20 years but I am thinking of buying the Yamaha when I upgrade soon.
After watching your comparison video I’d honestly be shocked if Yamaha didn’t come out with an updated version of the CLP 785 in time for the Fall/Winter holiday shopping season. Adding in a spruce soundboard and Bluetooth capability can’t possibly be all that difficult to engineer into a product that the current marketplace might, certainly without those changes, leave behind.
Yamaha had already a digital baby grand piano in 2008 with a spruce soundboard, the CGP-1000. That's 15 years ago, and it had a far more advanced speaker system than the CA901. For one, the soundboard was the size of the piano (a 4'11" baby grand), not just a small piece on the back. In addition, it had 240 watts of power and 8 speakers (plus two transducers for the soundboard). Kawai had a more impressive digital piano than the CA901 in the past: the CP1. The Concert Performer series was similar to the Yamaha CGP-1000. I have played a previous (discontinued) version of it, the CP200. It was a baby grand piano fitted with 9 speakers and 200 watts. I played it in the same showroom where a CA99 was, and it sounded like a baby grand. The CA99 sounds just like a little upright piano, more like a Kawai K15. The CP1 had a 10" woofer under the piano which provided plenty of bass. By the way, Kawai used only speakers and no soundboard in the CP1. In other words, the soundboard doesn't automatically make the instrument a better value or sound better.
It's due. But Yamaha I think would sample the new CFX before coming out with a new CLP series. To me they need to update the P515. That's overdue for an update. I don't know about a soundboard, though. They make spruce speakers, but the soundboard thing is a Kawai thing. (for the console pianos).
Interesting. I haven't played the CA901 which wasn't out when I purchased my CLP785. The keyboard on the CA99 is lighter, CLPs tend to be more Steinwayesque and I went with the Clavinova anyway.
interesting! Still.. you talk a lot about the sound of the pianos' but you barely mention the FEEL. How are the keys balanced? how does the keyboard react while playing especially with repetitive strikes? because when you look at the video closely, after releasing a key, the CLP keys rise smoothly back in position, as where on the Kawai the keys jump back en make an additional 'hop'. So that's quite a difference! (excuse my English, i'm Dutch) Further, on the samples you play in the video, some extra info would be welcome (which mode are you demonstrating).
The Bosendorfer sample is a shame, the recording is bad and all the dynamic is gone and the Bosendorfer sound signature is absent. Even an upright does better.
That's practically the same as 901, if you play it through the earphones. The only difference in between 701 and 901 is the cabinet, sound power and soundboard.
I despised the key feel on the 775. I know this is the 785, but if it isn't significantly different from the 775 that would be nightmarish... I'm a classically trained pianist and have an acoustic Yamaha so really it should have felt natural to me. The Kawai key action is superb.
I already ordered a Korg pa5x 88. But now listening to CA901 I like the sound of it a bit more. Oh well I just hope I can tweak the sounds of the Korg to get closer to Kawai.
Excellent video Curious to hear the Roland next to this. Understand that nothing beats x real lipids comparison. Would like to see a video where you play A on instrument 1 then same play on 2 and 3 to really compare.
Can you mic the soundboard on the Ca901? Mics 4 feet apart from each other, 6 inches to 1 ft from soundboard. same with the clp785 and 795. 37:15 I did hear the soundboard but it sounds mono
When I tried the CA99 (predecessor of the CA901) the action felt too light for me. I tried the CLP-785 a bit more recently, and it felt and sounded great. So did I change my playing? Or does the CA901 have a heavier action than the CA99? I think it's meant to be the same action. For me, the sound board is a gimmick. In the demontrations here I heard more lower mid dynamics on the Kawai, and it was enjoyable. Is the difference coming from the instruments I wonder, or just accidentally from the player as he gets more into it?
Bach only got to try a fortepiano, and that was quite primitive. So yes, he composed for other keyboards (not pianos) and it shows. That's why I prefer hearing his music on those keyboards, not as test pieces for digital pianos.
We tested both pianos and are quite shocked that the 785 sounds soooo much better than the 901. the 785 sounded much duller, as if a damper had been set. this is probably because the entire underside of the 785 is "open" or covered with fabric (behind which are presumably the incredibly good speakers), while the 901 only has a covered gap and is otherwise covered with wood - which looks better (at least that's what my wife thought), but sounds much worse. the keyboard of the 901 made a more playable/lighter impression. have you had similar experiences regarding the difference in sound? we actually wanted to buy the 901, then happened to play the 785 in the same store, and are now quite unsure.
Agree, if the CA is like a crystal glass, the 785 is like a diamond ring, if the 901 is a light and thin cosmos petal, the 785 is like a saturated rose petal.
I got a 701 and it was making a clicking sounds when hitting the key. I upgraded for the 901 and same issue. I am so very disappointed this piano!! Does any one has the same issue with their piano?
@@verymozart I did. They are being very responsive and helpful. However they keep changing my piano. And I get the same issue over and over. Clearly something is very wrong with the design of this new models.
@@lionelfaure85 so They just changed the piano but didn't explain to you any cause, or looked at the piano and try to repair or something? When you tested before buying it didn't have this issue? But if it keeps with this same problem maybe you'd better change it with another model or brand. Did you already report it to your dealer about the last piano that was given to you? I'm a bit discouraged to buy it now. Anyway you are the first I hear from to report this specific issue. I don't know what to think
I played the predecessors (CA79 and CA99). The CA99 was very pretty in polished ebony and sounded great. However, it had a very pronounced rattling noise. I tracked it down to the left speaker on top (of the two speakers on the left side, the outer one). And this was a showroom model. My guess is that, since these models have a light plastic wave guide called a "diffuser" sitting on top of the speaker, the plastic piece was loose or not fastened enough. Kawai digital and hybrid pianos are assembled in Indonesia, and they seem to have quality control issues.
I own a CLP-785. I almost bought a Kawai CA79 for the beautiful action. But, were I live, Kawais are insanely overpriced. The CA79 is pricier than the clp 785. It was never a choice for me. I don't know how Kawai justifies the price gouging in my region.
@@maynardewm I would imagine that the price of a CA901 is in heart attack range then. CLP785 is reasonable compared to anything else I have found and a great choice for most of us.
The Bosendorfer sample is a shame, the recording is bad and all the dynamic is gone and the Bosendorfer sound signature is absent. Even an upright does better.
my only criteria for digital piano, capable of playing the repeated notes of Scarlatti sonata k. 141 at high speed, if it does it's the best. pls. skip all those sound test and mechanical talks, just test it with the sonata.
Next time you wanna do SHORT PIECES IN COMPARISON. just 1 minute Y and then 1 minute K; and then 2 minutes Y and 2 minutes K. Your approach just doesn't make sense at all. I mean, HOW do you expect me to compare when you DISALLOW me the opportunity to compare the SOUNDS one after the other??????????????
There is certainly some merit in the approach you propose. You do get a clearer comparison that way. I like what they are doing now as well, because this gives me more of an opportunity to just sit back a bit and get a feel of the richness and enjoyability of the instruments. But seriously, what's with the hatefull tone. These guys make nice piano video's for us to enjoy or ignore if we'd want. It seems fitting to be polite if you make a suggestion, I mean why not?
correct, and maybe some classical pieces, some Bach for instance, no constant sustain pedal and eighth note up and down arpeggio's. I'm just not getting a feel for the depth of these instruments like this. Thanks!
Interesting that you say the Yamaha action 785 is slightly lighter than the Kawai CA 901 - as i have seen it said that other Yamaha actions are heavy, and that Kawai (which I prefer) is a bit lighter than a real grand piano. Thanks for the review.
Kawai sounds more like acoustic piano than Yamaha to me~~:)
That's because Yamaha just plays samples recorded from a real acoustic piano, while Kawai renders all sounds from scratch, like a real piano.
@@vitalybedros7678Kawai samples.
When played side by side, I found the action on the CLP775/785 to be heavier than the GF3 on the CA99 (same like on the CA901). The main difference between the CLP775 and CLP785 actionwise is that the latter has got counterweights. Interestingly, both CLP's have LINEARLY graded weights, meaning that there's a different weight for each 88 keys, unlike the rest of manufacturers who make it 4 different weight zones only accross the entire keyboard.
It's just naive to say the one feels more like a real grand, which grand? I've played some very fine Bechsteins where my hands where just flying and I come from a CA97 (GF2), so not all pianos are heavier than Kawai's GF actions and the CLP is not weighted after some universal standard so you can say it feels more like a real grand.
I enjoyed both but liked the sounds more on the Kawai. Unfortunately, the Kawai's are known to have some QC issues, the "real wooden" keys are very nice but they're prone to develop some clicking/stiffness (random keys) due to its complexity, whether the experience is worth the risk that's something arguable and hugely depends on how serious and reliable your retailer/disributor is.
I would argue that the complexity of the Grand Feel action is not the main reason for the issues with sticky keys. Rather, it is bad engineering. They use a soft dampening material as a cushion-like layer under the contact surface at the key's end. Because a soft material is used, it gets damaged and deformed after some use. Then the metal part which hits it makes a depression into the top layer and into the soft material and that depression then prevents the metal part from releasing sometimes. It results in the so-called sticky keys effect. There are some videos which explain it in more detail and suggest a work-around, e.g.: ruclips.net/video/Iz3lqUEc3Do/видео.html
Replacing the top contact surface of the pad with a new, perhaps slightly stronger contact surface is a work-around which works. But this modification might change the key characteristics a little bit.
@@pbasista I'm very well aware of the issue on the GF action, I myself had it and did repair it several times, replaced all pads and then again a pad here and a pad there every now and then, a pain in the neck honestly, I wouldn't call that a reliable action buy rather a faulty design. They fixed that issue with the latest GF3 which completely dispenses with the pads (cushions) and lets the hammer rest directly upon a plastic cap that they've added to the end of the key, now I doubt that the friction metal against plastic will hold on well, time will tell.
Really nice video, guys. Thank you. Helpful. I have now cut my search down to these 2.
For the first time I must say the Yamaha has the edge, sound is a little softer and a little more sweet, I have played Kawai digitals for 20 years but I am thinking of buying the Yamaha when I upgrade soon.
Really hope you didn't decide from a video on RUclips. In person things change completely.
the sound might perhaps highly subjective, but the action was not so,
After watching your comparison video I’d honestly be shocked if Yamaha didn’t come out with an updated version of the CLP 785 in time for the Fall/Winter holiday shopping season. Adding in a spruce soundboard and Bluetooth capability can’t possibly be all that difficult to engineer into a product that the current marketplace might, certainly without those changes, leave behind.
The Ca901 doesn't have a real soundboard anyway🎹🎶
Yamaha had already a digital baby grand piano in 2008 with a spruce soundboard, the CGP-1000. That's 15 years ago, and it had a far more advanced speaker system than the CA901. For one, the soundboard was the size of the piano (a 4'11" baby grand), not just a small piece on the back. In addition, it had 240 watts of power and 8 speakers (plus two transducers for the soundboard). Kawai had a more impressive digital piano than the CA901 in the past: the CP1. The Concert Performer series was similar to the Yamaha CGP-1000. I have played a previous (discontinued) version of it, the CP200. It was a baby grand piano fitted with 9 speakers and 200 watts. I played it in the same showroom where a CA99 was, and it sounded like a baby grand. The CA99 sounds just like a little upright piano, more like a Kawai K15. The CP1 had a 10" woofer under the piano which provided plenty of bass. By the way, Kawai used only speakers and no soundboard in the CP1. In other words, the soundboard doesn't automatically make the instrument a better value or sound better.
It's due. But Yamaha I think would sample the new CFX before coming out with a new CLP series. To me they need to update the P515. That's overdue for an update. I don't know about a soundboard, though. They make spruce speakers, but the soundboard thing is a Kawai thing. (for the console pianos).
Interesting. I haven't played the CA901 which wasn't out when I purchased my CLP785. The keyboard on the CA99 is lighter, CLPs tend to be more Steinwayesque and I went with the Clavinova anyway.
Whatever presets you are changing for each demonstration, you need to be showing that on the screen.
interesting! Still.. you talk a lot about the sound of the pianos' but you barely mention the FEEL. How are the keys balanced? how does the keyboard react while playing especially with repetitive strikes? because when you look at the video closely, after releasing a key, the CLP keys rise smoothly back in position, as where on the Kawai the keys jump back en make an additional 'hop'. So that's quite a difference! (excuse my English, i'm Dutch)
Further, on the samples you play in the video, some extra info would be welcome (which mode are you demonstrating).
Good point. There is always a noticeable difference between Kawai and Yamaha keyboards and you would have to play both pianos yourself.
I agree that the bosendorfer sample sounds unimpressive on my CVP 701 , I love the CFX sample
The Bosendorfer sample is a shame, the recording is bad and all the dynamic is gone and the Bosendorfer sound signature is absent. Even an upright does better.
can you guys please show the kawai 701 polished no vidoes out there of it
That's practically the same as 901, if you play it through the earphones. The only difference in between 701 and 901 is the cabinet, sound power and soundboard.
I despised the key feel on the 775. I know this is the 785, but if it isn't significantly different from the 775 that would be nightmarish... I'm a classically trained pianist and have an acoustic Yamaha so really it should have felt natural to me.
The Kawai key action is superb.
ruclips.net/video/_qai2gLz2Ec/видео.html
I already ordered a Korg pa5x 88. But now listening to CA901 I like the sound of it a bit more.
Oh well I just hope I can tweak the sounds of the Korg to get closer to Kawai.
can you download piano sounds into the pa5x?
I want to know Yamaha nu1x vs kawai ca901
Excellent video
Curious to hear the Roland next to this.
Understand that nothing beats x real lipids comparison. Would like to see a video where you play A on instrument 1 then same play on 2 and 3 to really compare.
Can you mic the soundboard on the Ca901? Mics 4 feet apart from each other, 6 inches to 1 ft from soundboard. same with the clp785 and 795. 37:15 I did hear the soundboard but it sounds mono
What song do you play on the pianos?
When I tried the CA99 (predecessor of the CA901) the action felt too light for me. I tried the CLP-785 a bit more recently, and it felt and sounded great. So did I change my playing? Or does the CA901 have a heavier action than the CA99? I think it's meant to be the same action. For me, the sound board is a gimmick.
In the demontrations here I heard more lower mid dynamics on the Kawai, and it was enjoyable. Is the difference coming from the instruments I wonder, or just accidentally from the player as he gets more into it?
According to Wikipedia, the CLP 785 was release in 2000; Unless I am missing something, that's 3 years ago not 4 or 5.
2020 :)
Bach only got to try a fortepiano, and that was quite primitive. So yes, he composed for other keyboards (not pianos) and it shows. That's why I prefer hearing his music on those keyboards, not as test pieces for digital pianos.
We tested both pianos and are quite shocked that the 785 sounds soooo much better than the 901. the 785 sounded much duller, as if a damper had been set. this is probably because the entire underside of the 785 is "open" or covered with fabric (behind which are presumably the incredibly good speakers), while the 901 only has a covered gap and is otherwise covered with wood - which looks better (at least that's what my wife thought), but sounds much worse. the keyboard of the 901 made a more playable/lighter impression. have you had similar experiences regarding the difference in sound? we actually wanted to buy the 901, then happened to play the 785 in the same store, and are now quite unsure.
Agree, if the CA is like a crystal glass, the 785 is like a diamond ring, if the 901 is a light and thin cosmos petal, the 785 is like a saturated rose petal.
I got a 701 and it was making a clicking sounds when hitting the key. I upgraded for the 901 and same issue. I am so very disappointed this piano!! Does any one has the same issue with their piano?
It's upsetting what you're saying because I would buy the CA701. Did you report the issues to where you bought it?
@@verymozart I did. They are being very responsive and helpful. However they keep changing my piano. And I get the same issue over and over. Clearly something is very wrong with the design of this new models.
@@lionelfaure85 so They just changed the piano but didn't explain to you any cause, or looked at the piano and try to repair or something? When you tested before buying it didn't have this issue? But if it keeps with this same problem maybe you'd better change it with another model or brand. Did you already report it to your dealer about the last piano that was given to you? I'm a bit discouraged to buy it now. Anyway you are the first I hear from to report this specific issue. I don't know what to think
I played the predecessors (CA79 and CA99). The CA99 was very pretty in polished ebony and sounded great. However, it had a very pronounced rattling noise. I tracked it down to the left speaker on top (of the two speakers on the left side, the outer one). And this was a showroom model. My guess is that, since these models have a light plastic wave guide called a "diffuser" sitting on top of the speaker, the plastic piece was loose or not fastened enough. Kawai digital and hybrid pianos are assembled in Indonesia, and they seem to have quality control issues.
@@Instrumental-Covers the issue is not audio but mechanical. Even if the piano is off you can hear the clicking sounds.
May Yahweh bless you brother King you did a very good job and we appreciate you.
I own a CLP-785.
I almost bought a Kawai CA79 for the beautiful action. But, were I live, Kawais are insanely overpriced. The CA79 is pricier than the clp 785. It was never a choice for me. I don't know how Kawai justifies the price gouging in my region.
That's funny. In my area, the Yamaha CLPs are much more costly than the Kawai CAs.
@@Tidus3960in the US the comparable Kawaii is $1-2k more across the spectrum. It really makes it an easy choice.
@@maynardewm I would imagine that the price of a CA901 is in heart attack range then. CLP785 is reasonable compared to anything else I have found and a great choice for most of us.
The Bosendorfer sample is a shame, the recording is bad and all the dynamic is gone and the Bosendorfer sound signature is absent. Even an upright does better.
my only criteria for digital piano, capable of playing the repeated notes of Scarlatti sonata k. 141 at high speed, if it does it's the best. pls. skip all those sound test and mechanical talks, just test it with the sonata.
Next time you wanna do SHORT PIECES IN COMPARISON. just 1 minute Y and then 1 minute K; and then 2 minutes Y and 2 minutes K. Your approach just doesn't make sense at all. I mean, HOW do you expect me to compare when you DISALLOW me the opportunity to compare the SOUNDS one after the other??????????????
Just rewind the video......
ruclips.net/video/8gWoFHadIVQ/видео.html
There is certainly some merit in the approach you propose. You do get a clearer comparison that way. I like what they are doing now as well, because this gives me more of an opportunity to just sit back a bit and get a feel of the richness and enjoyability of the instruments. But seriously, what's with the hatefull tone. These guys make nice piano video's for us to enjoy or ignore if we'd want. It seems fitting to be polite if you make a suggestion, I mean why not?
Be in the moment of each piano-- listening to one gives you time to savor the thought of what you like better
correct, and maybe some classical pieces, some Bach for instance, no constant sustain pedal and eighth note up and down arpeggio's. I'm just not getting a feel for the depth of these instruments like this. Thanks!
But the Yamaha CLP785 is known to have a heavy action......Never mind...SELL, SELL, SELL
Agreed, it feels a lot heavier than the 901. I was totally surprised by that statement.
May Yahweh bless you brothers we love you 👍🏽