Sadly the community as it is now will never accept a definitive willer of a BOTB at the HBCU level. This is due to the herd mentality that has now taken over the HBCU space. No matter if the contest are Adjudicated or not you will never get the community to agree on a clear winner. So, in my opinion it would be better to have BOTB become a showcase to promote the culture rather than a contest to attempt to crown a winner.
@@TheTeamIsSHaRP I agree on the Never Ending loop. It goes back to the herd mentality that a lot of fans where instead of considering the overall HBCU people ride for just their school and rarely come together for the betterment of the culture as a hold.
In my opinion: Categories are as followed: Stand presence: Stand Selection: Auxiliary: Drumline: Field show creativity: Slow ballad: Drum Major Presence: Overall:
I agree 100% on the judging part. When I was in high school,as BAD as it hurt lol, when you don’t come in first or hear the judge on tape critique you(“hey snare player play louder,drumline needs to practice marching together gaps are to big”etc.)definitely gives you something to work towards for the next competition. Also on a big picture scale it builds character also.
I thought all the band directors voted on which band they thought was best that season because their more keen to notes and sound, but one thing i do personally when i come across a band battle is i do a blind judgment by not looking at whos playing and just listening, ( this is done by phone and head/sound gear ), i write down which i thought was playing and i grade the sound an the selection of the music this is not a perfect way, but it works. Only drawback is you have to watch the videos twice , regardless of how you make an assessment, just be honest.
I feel like listening to band battles (zero and 5 quarters) and blindly judging based off of what you hear is a great idea. The only bad thing about it is the fact that most bands have a very specific sound. And to most band heads who have listened to these bands for years can easily tell the difference, it’ll be hard to honestly hear each song without showing bias. It’s possible, but when grading your favorite band or your Alma mater, it’s difficult to stay based without showing favor (or being harsher) on your favorite/least liked band.
This comment may not be a popular one but it is My observation. Any band competition no matter the audience it reflects will have sponsors or donors. Those sponsors or donors that have their name on it are looking for outcomes, especially if it’s an adjudicated event. It takes a lot of money to put this type of event. I agree with everything you are saying and with everything the other podcasters are revealing what’s not right with BOTY. Primarily, if we HBCUs want things done a specific way, we must look at creating our own space to do it the way we view it. It should reflect OUR Black College View, OUR Frame of Reference and OUR Cultural Identity. If we are subjected to ESPN, Red Lobster, Bojangles, etc… They Will ultimately call the shots to what it will look like. Again, I agree with everything you and so many others are saying but if we want it OUR way, with OUR true HBCU Identity, Frame of Reference and View. It ALL Must Be On Us.
A lot of ppl gonna have their way of looking at HBCU’s. Take the drastic difference between the style of MEAC and SWAC schools, one casually go with the flow style, oppose to a more straight forward in your face style. Best way it could happen is maybe have a blend of crowd voting along with ppl who judging on overall execution with actual experience on how marching bands play as a whole. Might be a good idea if there was some way for some schools to outline their shows one by one along with tempo and song selection just on drilling and have a section set aside just for crowd pleasing (house rocking) alone. But it will never be a total by the book method on this subject anytime soon tho.😅
I hear that they cut ticket prices in half for the Battle of Bands. I have no problem with adjudication as long as the rubric and score are made transparent to the participants. I also don't want bias to be too much of a factor when it comes to what he mentioned, the interpretation. Occasionally put a public score. People will argue, but at least they will know what they're arguing about. I'm not that bother about the stands not being judged, but people at least want to see the stands being put on display. At least when you're scored in high school and middle school you get a score sheet and a recording on the judges thoughts on what he or she saw. THere also needs to be a standard for what and when shows are judged. Even if everyone is submitting videos, it's highly unlikely that bands are doing a show specifically for adjudication until they get to ATL, but if we're submitting, it's possible some will do a show with that mind
The stands should be judged because it's part of the hbcu culture. If you don't judge the stands, it places SWAC schools at a disadvantage because their strong point is the stands where as Meac strong point is the field. The focus should be to judge the hbcu band culture. U can't just judge field shows as it doesn't depict the full hbcu band experience.
@@kentrelt5140that’s not necessarily true. FAMU and BCU are SWAC and they focus more on the field show than the stands. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a band that would out drill Southern when they are hitting on all cylinders.
There is never a winner in a black BOTB. Too many differing styles. I'm sure field shows can bridge the gap but there are a lot of BHs who only want the raw stand battle. Showmanship is key of course but a lot of these groups don't prioritize it. I just love that we're in a position where we can have the discussion. Also, if it's adjudicated, smaller programs gain a needed boost. It's hard to take away personal bias tho. You think Dr. Lee gives a damn about the raw power of the swac? No, he wants to hear FOTBB at symphonic levels.
I agree. It's really all about accepting that not all HBCU band programs are the same and embracing this instead of shunning band programs that's not like your favorite. We as a culture still don't know how to support each other.
I don’t think we should judge. I’m adjacent to both marching worlds and I don’t want to see what’s happened to DCI possibly the hbcu’s. DCI has turned into organizations prioritizing scoring over the essence of the actual art form. Better put groups are playing to judges. Also many groups have lost those personal tangible traits/aesthetic that fans had grown to love because of this. I don’t want to see something like this happen with hbcu’s.
True I wholeheartedly agree, but you don't see that as evolution through time? DCI has been an ever changing and expanding organization for years. With the growth of indoor organizations and winter guard they were bound to incorporate it within the craft at large. On the flip side of that HBCUs, while having a rich tradition, have not evolved much since it's inception and has been pretty stagnant for a number of years. You don't feel like the incorporation of adjudication could at minimum add a little more creativity to the craft?
@ I’m sure it would enhance creativity in the hbcu’s community. I also think we would see copycats, the thing that I love about hbcu’s is the individuality of each school. No one does it same way, I think that adjudication would create parameters and sort of box bands in. When people keep loosing to the same group they tend to adopt the strategy of the winning side. I’m also weary of seeing the regional styles disappearing, which is already starting to happen for other reasons. I fear this would accelerate this. I also believe that because of the strong feelings of individuality we will never never see it happen.
I love you, but it's not really going to be fair. Judging percussion lines for example. Bands with tonal drums will have the advantage assuming that both lines play thier material perfectly.
I think it's possible playing with drop bass and tonal are inherently different but a clean line is a clean line...so it's possible because I could be wrong so please let me know, but it seems as though you're implying drop bass is not clean?
@@PassionIsNetworkur just a swac man I don’t expect u to know anything about tonal basses actual lines that have beats and groove yall like that banging bullshit
@@PassionIsNetwork It’s not that one will be cleaner. It’s more so, given both groups are playing at the same experience level, the tonal line will edge them out on the level of difficulty. Having tonals just allows you to do more creatively and melodically.
The programs that will struggle with the current format are those whose primary purpose is to produce volume over everything. The system isn’t broken at all. Creating guidelines for evaluating and judging is standard for most industries when comparing performances. Certain programs will not get to recreate the standard for excellence in marching bands, however the crankiest and other volume based competitions will fill those needs. Field show performances will always supersede stand battles as they require more effort and discipline.
I think this more so has to do with FMU being “disqualified” (technically, they were invited due to lack of uniforms) from coming back to defend the Division II Title of best band. Jackson could honestly care less about going seeing how they’ve had a very successful past few years in terms of exposure.
@ Jackson is going to the Celebration Bowl (AND having an event for high schoolers the same time as the boty event. And from the way you commenting, I can tell the Boom did some damage to your favorite band🤣
@@uptdc2008 That’s cool. JSU still gone have more exposure than them at the end of the day. Cause I don’t recall NCAT being featured any artist at a Super Bowl
Stop crying y’all just mad everythibg isn’t about swac no one cares it’s about field show not stands if I remember we are called MARCHING BANDS not stay in the stand band if y’all stop allat cranking and non marching on the field maybe y’all will win say wat u want bout meac but there clean crisp and articulate (SOME)
@ yes that’s all y’all cry about swac this swac that no one cares that all y’all can do is blow loud out of tune notes wowww okay now what? Where the balance blend intonation not to mention the fact that most them kids DONT march they walk the whole time like cmon be real y’all are mad the meac sweeping but they are paying attention to detail we are marching bands not stay in the Stand bands
@ and that’s not to say swac bands arnt good bc shiii TXSU FAMU bcu all sound great and drill great but u got ppl like su mvsu Grambling and these are the bands that’s suppose to be on top……when u got places like Tsu TXSU NSU BCU FAMU Jackson these bands sound pretty decent but since they have good balance and blend mfs don’t like that I’m so sick of it band culture is just going down the drain everything is about who is the loudest it’s crazy now days
Sadly the community as it is now will never accept a definitive willer of a BOTB at the HBCU level. This is due to the herd mentality that has now taken over the HBCU space. No matter if the contest are Adjudicated or not you will never get the community to agree on a clear winner. So, in my opinion it would be better to have BOTB become a showcase to promote the culture rather than a contest to attempt to crown a winner.
Then people will complain about who is invited. When you invite who they want, they'll complain about having more diversity. It's a never ending loop.
@@TheTeamIsSHaRP I agree on the Never Ending loop. It goes back to the herd mentality that a lot of fans where instead of considering the overall HBCU people ride for just their school and rarely come together for the betterment of the culture as a hold.
This is nothing new. You rarely saw SU at a botb before Haymer
I completely agree!
In my opinion:
Categories are as followed:
Stand presence:
Stand Selection:
Auxiliary:
Drumline:
Field show creativity:
Slow ballad:
Drum Major Presence:
Overall:
I agree 100% on the judging part. When I was in high school,as BAD as it hurt lol, when you don’t come in first or hear the judge on tape critique you(“hey snare player play louder,drumline needs to practice marching together gaps are to big”etc.)definitely gives you something to work towards for the next competition. Also on a big picture scale it builds character also.
I thought all the band directors voted on which band they thought was best that season because their more keen to notes and sound, but one thing i do personally when i come across a band battle is i do a blind judgment by not looking at whos playing and just listening, ( this is done by phone and head/sound gear ), i write down which i thought was playing and i grade the sound an the selection of the music this is not a perfect way, but it works. Only drawback is you have to watch the videos twice , regardless of how you make an assessment, just be honest.
I feel like listening to band battles (zero and 5 quarters) and blindly judging based off of what you hear is a great idea. The only bad thing about it is the fact that most bands have a very specific sound. And to most band heads who have listened to these bands for years can easily tell the difference, it’ll be hard to honestly hear each song without showing bias. It’s possible, but when grading your favorite band or your Alma mater, it’s difficult to stay based without showing favor (or being harsher) on your favorite/least liked band.
This comment may not be a popular one but it is My observation. Any band competition no matter the audience it reflects will have sponsors or donors. Those sponsors or donors that have their name on it are looking for outcomes, especially if it’s an adjudicated event. It takes a lot of money to put this type of event. I agree with everything you are saying and with everything the other podcasters are revealing what’s not right with BOTY. Primarily, if we HBCUs want things done a specific way, we must look at creating our own space to do it the way we view it. It should reflect OUR Black College View, OUR Frame of Reference and OUR Cultural Identity. If we are subjected to ESPN, Red Lobster, Bojangles, etc… They Will ultimately call the shots to what it will look like. Again, I agree with everything you and so many others are saying but if we want it OUR way, with OUR true HBCU Identity, Frame of Reference and View. It ALL Must Be On Us.
💯
Are the judges and organizers from those corporations or directors from the HBCU platform?
A lot of ppl gonna have their way of looking at HBCU’s. Take the drastic difference between the style of MEAC and SWAC schools, one casually go with the flow style, oppose to a more straight forward in your face style. Best way it could happen is maybe have a blend of crowd voting along with ppl who judging on overall execution with actual experience on how marching bands play as a whole. Might be a good idea if there was some way for some schools to outline their shows one by one along with tempo and song selection just on drilling and have a section set aside just for crowd pleasing (house rocking) alone. But it will never be a total by the book method on this subject anytime soon tho.😅
yada yada yada
If you’re going judge stands then you’ve gotta have a full house to measure fan engagement. Stands is about HYPE !!!
The selections were geared to band sizes and I know that NCA&T has never out played or March NSU. Money still buy appearances
My thoughts exactly
I hear that they cut ticket prices in half for the Battle of Bands. I have no problem with adjudication as long as the rubric and score are made transparent to the participants. I also don't want bias to be too much of a factor when it comes to what he mentioned, the interpretation. Occasionally put a public score. People will argue, but at least they will know what they're arguing about. I'm not that bother about the stands not being judged, but people at least want to see the stands being put on display. At least when you're scored in high school and middle school you get a score sheet and a recording on the judges thoughts on what he or she saw. THere also needs to be a standard for what and when shows are judged. Even if everyone is submitting videos, it's highly unlikely that bands are doing a show specifically for adjudication until they get to ATL, but if we're submitting, it's possible some will do a show with that mind
The stands should be judged because it's part of the hbcu culture. If you don't judge the stands, it places SWAC schools at a disadvantage because their strong point is the stands where as Meac strong point is the field. The focus should be to judge the hbcu band culture. U can't just judge field shows as it doesn't depict the full hbcu band experience.
@@kentrelt5140that’s not necessarily true. FAMU and BCU are SWAC and they focus more on the field show than the stands. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a band that would out drill Southern when they are hitting on all cylinders.
@rooseveltb9892 naw. Every band does a field and stand show at every game. That's part of the hbcu experience.
@@kentrelt5140 I’m not saying they don’t do both. I’m saying they are not at a disadvantage because of their field shows.
@@rooseveltb9892 it is when the competition only focus on the field show performance. That's not the full hbcu football game performance experience.
So if you loud makes you good😢
There is never a winner in a black BOTB. Too many differing styles. I'm sure field shows can bridge the gap but there are a lot of BHs who only want the raw stand battle. Showmanship is key of course but a lot of these groups don't prioritize it. I just love that we're in a position where we can have the discussion. Also, if it's adjudicated, smaller programs gain a needed boost. It's hard to take away personal bias tho. You think Dr. Lee gives a damn about the raw power of the swac? No, he wants to hear FOTBB at symphonic levels.
I agree. It's really all about accepting that not all HBCU band programs are the same and embracing this instead of shunning band programs that's not like your favorite. We as a culture still don't know how to support each other.
HailWildcats
I don’t think we should judge. I’m adjacent to both marching worlds and I don’t want to see what’s happened to DCI possibly the hbcu’s. DCI has turned into organizations prioritizing scoring over the essence of the actual art form. Better put groups are playing to judges. Also many groups have lost those personal tangible traits/aesthetic that fans had grown to love because of this. I don’t want to see something like this happen with hbcu’s.
True I wholeheartedly agree, but you don't see that as evolution through time? DCI has been an ever changing and expanding organization for years. With the growth of indoor organizations and winter guard they were bound to incorporate it within the craft at large. On the flip side of that HBCUs, while having a rich tradition, have not evolved much since it's inception and has been pretty stagnant for a number of years. You don't feel like the incorporation of adjudication could at minimum add a little more creativity to the craft?
@ I’m sure it would enhance creativity in the hbcu’s community. I also think we would see copycats, the thing that I love about hbcu’s is the individuality of each school. No one does it same way, I think that adjudication would create parameters and sort of box bands in. When people keep loosing to the same group they tend to adopt the strategy of the winning side. I’m also weary of seeing the regional styles disappearing, which is already starting to happen for other reasons. I fear this would accelerate this. I also believe that because of the strong feelings of individuality we will never never see it happen.
Where's YOUR college band?
I love you, but it's not really going to be fair. Judging percussion lines for example. Bands with tonal drums will have the advantage assuming that both lines play thier material perfectly.
I think it's possible playing with drop bass and tonal are inherently different but a clean line is a clean line...so it's possible because I could be wrong so please let me know, but it seems as though you're implying drop bass is not clean?
@@PassionIsNetworkur just a swac man I don’t expect u to know anything about tonal basses actual lines that have beats and groove yall like that banging bullshit
Lol @keepingupwithnasaun7782 you DO realize that myself (Jay) and 90% of our team marched with the Legion right?
@@PassionIsNetwork It’s not that one will be cleaner. It’s more so, given both groups are playing at the same experience level, the tonal line will edge them out on the level of difficulty. Having tonals just allows you to do more creatively and melodically.
Everyone knows, THE University of Houston has the baddest band in the land. 😂
Lol #GoCoogs
Comment on SWAC bands are the only one sells ticket. 😢
NCA&T isnt SWAC and they get it done.
The programs that will struggle with the current format are those whose primary purpose is to produce volume over everything. The system isn’t broken at all. Creating guidelines for evaluating and judging is standard for most industries when comparing performances. Certain programs will not get to recreate the standard for excellence in marching bands, however the crankiest and other volume based competitions will fill those needs. Field show performances will always supersede stand battles as they require more effort and discipline.
I kind of don't disagree
@ By the way excellent presentation and very thoughtful.
That vote was trash
SWAC schools are what the ppl want to see….and we all know which schools sells tickets
No absolutely no stands. Leave that to those other botb
SWAC folks out here still crying huh. If overly loud SWAC band dont win everything is always rigged or not fair
I think this more so has to do with FMU being “disqualified” (technically, they were invited due to lack of uniforms) from coming back to defend the Division II Title of best band. Jackson could honestly care less about going seeing how they’ve had a very successful past few years in terms of exposure.
@@benzoentertains well if they dont care then don't come point blank lol
@ Jackson is going to the Celebration Bowl (AND having an event for high schoolers the same time as the boty event. And from the way you commenting, I can tell the Boom did some damage to your favorite band🤣
@@benzoentertains They didn't! Cause my band won last year thanks lol
@@uptdc2008 That’s cool. JSU still gone have more exposure than them at the end of the day. Cause I don’t recall NCAT being featured any artist at a Super Bowl
Stop crying y’all just mad everythibg isn’t about swac no one cares it’s about field show not stands if I remember we are called MARCHING BANDS not stay in the stand band if y’all stop allat cranking and non marching on the field maybe y’all will win say wat u want bout meac but there clean crisp and articulate (SOME)
Just out of curiosity who's crying and who's mad and when were statements made about everything being about the SWAC?
@ yes that’s all y’all cry about swac this swac that no one cares that all y’all can do is blow loud out of tune notes wowww okay now what? Where the balance blend intonation not to mention the fact that most them kids DONT march they walk the whole time like cmon be real y’all are mad the meac sweeping but they are paying attention to detail we are marching bands not stay in the Stand bands
@ and that’s not to say swac bands arnt good bc shiii TXSU FAMU bcu all sound great and drill great but u got ppl like su mvsu Grambling and these are the bands that’s suppose to be on top……when u got places like Tsu TXSU NSU BCU FAMU Jackson these bands sound pretty decent but since they have good balance and blend mfs don’t like that I’m so sick of it band culture is just going down the drain everything is about who is the loudest it’s crazy now days
You clearly NEVER fully listen to the episodes on this channel
THANK YOU!!! and people are STILL mad A&T beat JSU