John 17:5 (Pt 1) "Glory I had with you"?? - by Sir Anthony Buzzard & J. Dan Gill
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
- Bible -- Verse -- Commentary. John17:5. Anthony Buzzard and J. Dan Gill consider Jn. 17:5. What is glory in prospect? What did Jesus mean speaking of the Glory he had with the Father before the world was? Why did Jesus say he had "already given" his disciples a future glory?
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I believe that Jesus did have glory when he was with God in the beginning, aaaaand the glory which he had, was returned to him when he ascended into heaven to sit at Gods right. When he was on earth however, he was glorified every time he performed the works which his Father gave to him to do.
I think He should have mentioned is this whole idea of Jesus actually prexisting is only in the gospel of John and that it is a misconception that he is rather he was predetermined in Gods mind John 1:1 rather Jesus was always in Gods plan and this plan was also revealed to Abraham John 8:56 its not that Jesus was prexiting rather he was the in the plan of God
You are completely wrong.
@@waynehampson9569then what is it ?
@@dallasevans10 Jesus pre-existed, He wasn't merely in God's plan.
@@waynehampson9569 existed as the one true God ?
@@dallasevans10 You are clueless when it comes to the Trinity. All Unitarians are.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1.
If you look carefully you will see the word "with".
Jesus as the Word of God was with the Father from the beginning.
Also notice the words "was God".
Yes. God had a plan. Adam messed up and the plan and the GLORY was put on hold til the 2nd Adam, Yahusha Ha Mashiach came set apart from the BEGINNING (John 15:27, John 16:4) as he was begotten of the Spirit of his God and Father.
I hear what is said here. But, I have a very difficult time accepting this way of interpreting v5. You seem to say that God stored this glory for Christ in advance, God was storing it for Christ before the world began, and Christ somehow had it already back then. Therefore "I had with you before the world began." even though I was not there then. I hear the argument, but this is a very hard thing to believe. It is deeply contrived do you not think? If He was with God before, it does not mean He is Divine, He simply existed beforehand.
Pr. 8 is a good chapter to show that (not Christ per se, but) the word and wisdom and soul and logos, or thoughts of God was with God in eternity past. God saw Himself-- that is, His word made flesh, crucified before the foundation of the world--not that Jesus was crucified back then.
Not contrived at all. See John 17:24 in the same passage and compare that with 1 Peter 1:20 and Revelation 13:8.
The word made flesh was with God before the world began, and was that very same Being of God. But God purposed that there would come to the earth the humanity of the Deity so that the earth inhabitants could see what the father/ son relationship looked like.
@@gregorykubik2040 Thanks for these verses on the pre-existence of the word of God. The word was none other than God--John 1:1-3--because God does not give His glory to any other than Himself. We see God interacting within Himself also in Pr. 8 and in Gen. 1:26. The word made flesh is none other than God Himself, though the flesh and blood part of Jesus did not enter into heaven, for he left his blood behind at the cross. This distinction between the Deity and the humanity of God is also to be detected in Zech. 12:10 where the Father puts distance, as it were, between Himself and His son because of the sins of the world that was laid upon Jesus Christ.
@@ralphowen3367 The Word was not a distinct person with the being of God. The word was God. Which, looking back at your post, it looks like you believe.
In Proverbs 8, the Hebrew writer personifies wisdom. It doesn't mean that wisdom is a second divine person. Not sure if that's what you were trying to say.
Genesis 1:26 is God's council, the heavenly host which continuously surrounds his throne.
When Jesus ascended, his physical body went into heaven. What do you mean by saying that the flesh and blood part of Jesus did not enter heaven?
Our master is Yahusha Ha Mashiach. He is the preeminent son of Elohim. He is a son of man. He is also the only human conceived of the breath of Elohim. The rest of us children of Elohim were born again by being immersed or "baptized" by His breath.
He is completely UNIQUE, with his own nature. He is not YHWH, the One True Elohim.... nor is he a normal man. He is the 2nd Adam but unlike the 1st, he succeeded. The consequence of his victory over the wages of sin, by being sinless, is what we put our faith in. He is the last Passover lamb. He redeemed us back to the Father. Praise Yah. There is none like him. So his nature is completely unlike any other.
He is of the tribe of Judah, the lion, and the decedent of David who now is King on the Davidic throne. He is our High priest after the order of Melchizedek.
He is the True Vine. All new things come through him. He is the first born of the new creation. All things were and are made for him and on his behalf by his Father, YHWH. He is given all authority by his God and Father, YHWH. He will reign on the throne and then, in the end, he submits to the Father.
Jesus is YH David is WH. Only one on the throne at a time. Together they are YHWH. I and my father are one. Davids spirit still walks the earth today. Could it be because he is the holy spirit, the spirit of the father. Jesus seemed to think so.
In the end the son of God will submit to the Father as an example to us and to show that the Mediatorial Age has come to an end. Jesus is actually that Everlasting Father--Is. 9:6.
@@ralphowen3367 David is the Silent spirit that descended on Yeshua in the form of a dove. Silent no more.
@@NemesisEn4cer Curious that you should say that because the Book of Acts says that David is in the grave unto this day--and until resurrection day.
One can see in Ps. 33:6 the threescore that God is, and breath or or Spirit is one of them.
So Jesus Christ was not pre-existant?
Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
Jesus meant in Jn. 8:58 that he was before the world began as the Word Thought, and Voice of God.
@@ralphowen3367 Pre-existant!
@@isaiah30v8 Ml
Yes, as the Word of God, but not as the son of God, for read Lk. 1:35.
@@ralphowen3367
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John 15:26-27
When the helper arrives that I will send YOU from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; 27 and YOU, in turn, are to bear witness, because YOU have been with me from when I began.
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because YOU have been with me from when I began
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Were these people the Word of God also?
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@@isaiah30v8 You need to think spiritually and use the Authorised version of the Bible. God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. God is not a plurality of persons to call Him "people" as you did. At one point the people were so filled with themselves that God rebukes them, saying: You thought I was altogether one like unto yourselves.
There's no way a 5th grader can understand & articulate John 17:5 in accordance with the explanation in this video.
Isaiah 53 speaks about the suffering of Messiah in past tense.. he HAS born our iniquities.. not he will.
So, Jesus was saying the glory i had.. same as Isaiah.
I think a child can understand that.. 1 Peter 1:19-20 it is about foreordination
[saiah 53 speaks about the suffering of Messiah in past tense] -- Are you sure that's not a so-called prophetic past tense?
[So, Jesus was saying the glory i has...] -- Is that verb the same kind of past tense of the Hebrew (Isa)?
[I think a child can understand that...] -- Have you worked with urban kids in that age bracket who come from broken homes & are product of public school "graduate then at all costs" or, are you assuming a private school 5th grader? I think the context is important.
@@plumtree8713
I do not use "plan" of God terminology because the word is not in the bible
Acts 2:23
@@bobbyfischersays1262 "Determinate council"--K.J.V.--as I said, the word "plan" is not to be found in the Holy Scriptures. God purposes and does not plan.
@@ralphowen3367 lol God doesn't plan? You must be a Calvinist.
@@bobbyfischersays1262 It never says in the A.V. that God "plans". If you look at a concordance and find it true, it will not be a laughing matter to you anymore, unless you just do not want to be bothered with the facts. No, I am no Calvinist, though I do believe in every point of T.U.L.I.P..
@@ralphowen3367 Calvinism and the TULIP will always be a laughing matter. God thinks, feels, plans, hopes, and even changes His mind in Scripture. You're welcome to be a Neoplatonist if you choose though!
Much of what Jesus did and said was standing in proxy for mankind.
I Thess. 1:19 is similarly prophetic. Pr. 8 shows this glory that the word and wisdom of God had with God from eternity past.
Thanks for your comment. However, there is no vs. 19 in 1 Thess 1. Did you have another verse in mind?
@@Psalm-pu2jq Heb. 1:8-9..--This is God speaking to God, is it not? One God, for there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. The Lord our God is one Lord --De. 6:4. Now the Lord is that Spirit. All the baptisms in the book of Acts done in the name of the Lord, yes? This was the Divine One speaking with His manifest humanity. That Son of God had dominion in the earth while the Deity part of the son of God had also total dominion in Heaven--John 3:13. This altho in that verse Jesus veils things by saying the son of man is also in Heaven.
@@Psalm-pu2jq A theory I am trying is that in Gen. 1:3, the Light was the Lord having dominion in the earth while in Heaven also. This. I believe is the explanation of vs. 26 where God, being a relational being within Himself is speaking with Himself to create alone and by Himself--Is. 44:24.
@@ralphowen3367
What about when Jesus Christ quotes Psalm 2 about someone other than himself?
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Revelation 2:26-27
And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels ** THE SAME ** as I have received from my Father
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,If this man receives THE SAME authority as Jesus Christ then he should also be able to participate in the creation and anything else that Jesus Christ has authority over!
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When what Jesus Christ explicitly said above happens then, how will the Trinity math work?
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@@Psalm-pu2jq Yes, sorry, 2:19.
Jesus is God distinct from the Father. Praise the triune God of the bible.
Define “person”
@@andyayala5639 Back again?
@@follow_the_way I apologize. I didn’t know you were joking with me lol
@Andy Ayala You obviously don't know alot. Thanks for trying though.
@@follow_the_way you got stumped by a guy who doesn’t know a lot lol no way man TOO FUNNY