Did Hordak deserve a happy ending?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Hordak wound up on Etheria somehow and did a hostile takeover that caused a lot of pain and suffering across the planet. But in the end gets to live happily ever after with his girlfriend. They say that after the show ends he has to do community service by cleaning up beast island but that isn't shown on screen and it would make more sense to send him to Mermista's kingdom or something. Regardless, in our opinion Hordak got off way to easy. They also tried to force a bond between Hordak and Adora. You know, the girl he kidnapped and forced into being a child soldier? Weird.
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Only characters that deserved a happy ending were Angella and Kyle.
I wish this show was just about Kyle and the other horde kids escaping the horde (slowly not immediately) being on the run and helping the resistance to free the other horde members would of been so cool
I wanted to see Bow pay of abandoning his "friend" Kyle.
Despite lacking in any sort of build up and happening off screen (thanks Noelle) Kyle did get the best ending. 🤣
I’ll never forgive the staff for what they did to Angella.
@@DD8842 He's stuck with Glimmer the rest of his life, that's more than enough suffering.
@@batfang25animations39 Given how the "Rebellion" acts in this show, it should be the trio become sick of their antics and decide to form their own faction with common people and defected horde members.
I think the adora hordak relationship would have worked if she was raised as his daughter and someone he cares about, as a princess of evil
But then it turns out he only cared for her cause she comes from that portal, but he slowly realizes he actually sees her as a daughter
That would have worked
It we had any connection between the two besides being a random baby he found out of a portal that would have been an improvement but the plot can’t be asked to fill in that little hole. ◔_◔
Precisely it also doesn't exactly help that in season five when Hordak rejects Horde Prime and declares that he has made a life for himself, it was one where he was trying to conquer a whole planet causing countless deaths and other unimaginable horrors. In other words, the same thing he was doing while he was serving as a General under Horde Prime, albeit being just one planet instead of countless others.
What really unsettling is the fact that Hordak seems to Try and Glorify and Justify it as being better than what Horde Prime is doing, when, newsflash, it really really isn't.
And the same applies to Catra.
As one other RUclipsr, EquesTron pointed out in his video,
here is a link: ruclips.net/video/X-lhDhGeSgM/видео.html
see time, 6:46 to 8:55 and 14:31 to 20:30 of the video for further explanation.
There was a lot of Foreshadowing and build-up in the previous seasons that lead all the way up to 3rd Season's final episode that made Catra, not just come off as, but as an actual really irredeemable villain and that even Adora herself had finally given up on trying to help her, and even hating Catra by the end of it. Something that, was later reinforced in season 4, when the two met again. Yet in Season 5, they just suddenly decide to give her a redemption arc. All of this, despite the fact, Catra had literally tons of chances to not continue to be evil in earlier parts of the series and just a season ago.
Furthermore, Catra hardly made any efforts to actually better herself or actually face the consequences of her behavior and actions. Let alone earn the trust of the other Rebels.
The only, reason why they even tolerate her is that Adora, Glimmer, and Bow seem to trust her, and even that is so fake and poorly written because if you've been paying attention to the show while watching it, you would have noticed that Glimmer too has an extreme hatred for Catra. She was after all the one who did cause her mother's death and nearly destroy all of reality. Sure we can argue that Glimmer got over her hatred for Catra because of the time they spent on Horde Prime's ship, but it still doesn't explain why Adora and Bow started trusting Catra so quickly. Adora especially, since she had begun to start hating Catra.
In fact, It's like they're trying to retcon Adora's and Glimmers hatred of Catra and resolve to take her down in season 3 and 4, and giving Catra a redemption arc at the end of the story as more of a means to have the ship between Catra and Adora rather than actually redeeming the character, while at the same time saying that it's all still canon. And let me just say, this is a very terrible idea, and really ruins the story's narrative and themes.
@@ChroniclerV Everything in the show is dedicated to shipping regardless if it makes any sense.
You mean like in the original show
"he only cared for her cause she comes from that portal" not really, that didn't matter to him, he just had a spark of goodness where he saved a baby he didn't need to, but got tsundere about it so he handed her off to the orphanage/weaver to maintain his badass rep among troops
It's not so much that he DESERVED a Happy Ending but that he didn't EARN one.
None of the characters did honestly. Save for Kyle and Angella.
Hi, Hordak design Stan here, all I have to say it ^^^ what Kevin just said
Amen.
Catra didnt either but they all forgave her for some reason
@@sosososososo123 I mean, you are kinda preaching to the choir here ma man, we are in agreement, the only reason even I like Hordak is his design and the vagueness of his actions
Queen Angela loving mother and queen and selfless hero doesn't get a happy ending and doesn't reunite with her husband
hordak a warlord and a planet conqueror peaceful planet into war kills dozens of people and he get a happy ending wtf
Great point! And too sadly, frustratingly true
Don’t forget how Catra was a toxic bully and abuser who willingly did horrible things but still ended up with her abuse victim and it’s treated like a happy ending. This shows sense of morality if all kinds of fucked up.
@@cartoonking1789 That greatly concerns me.
@@lavenderplace8591 Yeah I don’t like that people like that are given free reign with established property.
@@cartoonking1789 It's sad that the only way an abusive toxic relationship gets called out in media is if it's straight or boy love if you're lucky. This gets a pass.
Somehow Skeletor’s sudden face turn in the He-Man/She-Ra Christmas makes more sense than Netflix Hordak turning good did.
Now that's the true ending to he-man and she-ra
Even Skeletor admits it makes no sense. Most of his actions to save the kids were preceded with him saying some variation of, "Why am I doing this?"
And he was grateful it was only for one day a year
At least with Skeletor it's funny how he's suddenly wrestling with sudden compassion for these two Earth children.
Lol funny part of it even skeletor couldn't understand why he was doing these good things
I think the mind set of Stevenson and the other writers were "If we're going to give a psychopathic bipolar cat lady with extreme abandonment issues a rushed redemption, we may as well do the same for a mentally unstable megalomaniac with an inferiority complex who's trying to win the approval of big brother". Seriously Stevenson if their was a grade lower than F I'd give it to you for f'ing up at characterization and story arcs.
Skewed morals, it is the moto of this show. Scorpia never did relise, the HORDE IS EVIL. She left because Catra was mean to her... All the bad guys are psychopaths!
Catra was abusive the entire time and literally almost killed everyone, she was abusive to adora the whole show thier relationship makes no sense especially since they were shown to have a sister relationship not a romantic one her sudden redemption didn’t make sense and hordak was horrible, there’s a lot of issues with this show.
@@sydneyjones6931
The "director" put all the issues she had in it. No wonder they hired a ghost director to make it watchable.
Precisely it also doesn't exactly help that in season five when Hordak rejects Horde Prime and declares that he has made a life for himself, it was one where he was trying to conquer a whole planet causing countless deaths and other unimaginable horrors. In other words, the same thing he was doing while he was serving as a General under Horde Prime, albeit being just one planet instead of countless others.
What really unsettling is the fact that Hordak seems to Try and Glorify and Justify it as being better than what Horde Prime is doing, when, newsflash, it really really isn't.
And the same applies to Catra.
As one other RUclipsr, EquesTron pointed out in his video,
here is a link: ruclips.net/video/X-lhDhGeSgM/видео.html
see time, 6:46 to 8:55 and 14:31 to 20:30 of the video for further explanation.
There was a lot of Foreshadowing and build-up in the previous seasons that lead all the way up to 3rd Season's final episode that made Catra, not just come off as, but as an actual really irredeemable villain and that even Adora herself had finally given up on trying to help her, and even hating Catra by the end of it. Something that, was later reinforced in season 4, when the two met again. Yet in Season 5, they just suddenly decide to give her a redemption arc. All of this, despite the fact, Catra had literally tons of chances to not continue to be evil in earlier parts of the series and just a season ago.
Furthermore, Catra hardly made any efforts to actually better herself or actually face the consequences of her behavior and actions. Let alone earn the trust of the other Rebels.
The only, reason why they even tolerate her is that Adora, Glimmer, and Bow seem to trust her, and even that is so fake and poorly written because if you've been paying attention to the show while watching it, you would have noticed that Glimmer too has an extreme hatred for Catra. She was after all the one who did cause her mother's death and nearly destroy all of reality. Sure we can argue that Glimmer got over her hatred for Catra because of the time they spent on Horde Prime's ship, but it still doesn't explain why Adora and Bow started trusting Catra so quickly. Adora especially, since she had begun to start hating Catra.
In fact, It's like they're trying to retcon Adora's and Glimmers hatred of Catra and resolve to take her down in season 3 and 4, and giving Catra a redemption arc at the end of the story as more of a means to have the ship between Catra and Adora rather than actually redeeming the character, while at the same time saying that it's all still canon. And let me just say, this is a very terrible idea, and really ruins the story's narrative and themes.
@@ChroniclerV absolutely because it doesn’t make sense and it’s not a good message, catra and adora is an abusive relationship and why they thought that was a good idea to make canon is beyond me
“Missed opportunity” is a good way to describe the show. If this was given to someone who CARED about the MOTU series or someone who wanted to try and capture the spirit of the old show I think it could have been great, instead we got some rando with no experience in MOTU or writing in general and main claim to fame is being the creator of a graphic novel she didn’t create and only joined in on helping work on later in its run, who turned the show into her fanfiction therapy.
The ironic thing is the person who hired her was apparently a woman who was a fan of she ra
@Jacqueline Davis That’s a big OOF moment.
@@batfang25animations39 That women must be kicking herself for that poor decision.
@Jacqueline Davis I know I sure would.
There was no missed opportunity. The entire point of the show was to get Adora to hook back up with her abuser. Every plot point dropped, story beat abandoned, character arc forgotten, all of it was in service of that goal. All so that Noelle Stevenson can prove to the world that her toxic personal relationship is OK, except that she shows how it's now.
I feel like Hordak's entire forced redemption is a symptom of this weird trend of making some villains into these strangely innocent angels despite being mass murderers or something equally as terrible because of a poorly written tragic backstory (Cruella being a fantastic example). What would be truly interesting is making a villain sympathetic but irredeemable, where the audience can understand and even relate to the motivations for the villain's actions but also understand that they've gone too far and must be punished for their actions.
For a bit of a personal example, I've been working on and building a fantasy story for over a year now, and one of the first things I did was work on a villain character. This villain, Ladislas, is a nearly two thousand year old dragon and a fallen hero who's trying to bring the dragons back after their disappearance (which is around 1500 years before the main story). At first, he's simply the big bad of the story, but more and more about his motivations are revealed over time, such as the fact he feels he failed dragonkind by not stopping their disappearance and wants desperately to save and protect his people. Despite this seemingly pure motivation, however, Ladislas himself is a unrepentant, callous murderer who slaughters scores of people, swearing up and down that it's for the dragons when he's simply indulging in his own bloody vendetta against the other races of the world.
Unfortunately, while that's all I can say about the character (because that would mean explaining hours of worldbuilding and story history that I don't have time for), making a character have understandable or perhaps heroic motivations but is still a vile monster makes for a gripping and engaging villain that can be a good mirror to the protagonist. Instead, Hordak is a clearly violent war criminal who had a sad time so he's instantly forgiven and gets the girl (just like Catra). Another bit of wasted potential to be heaped upon the reboot.
(I like how I can barely write for college yet I make whole essays on storywriting preference in a RUclips comment section.)
The Joker, for the movie Joker is one. We can understand why he turned like that but he has no remorse for it in the end.
It feels like they were trying to do a redemption ark for Hordak similar to Zuko's without understanding why it worked so well. He never apologize, didn't look back on his actions, nothing, the writers just expects us to be okay with it. But I can't expect much from this show.
Hope you two have a Happy Father's Day!
This show SUCKS at redeeming characters, Hell it sucks and making them sympathetic too.
You have expectations?!
God the way the show BENDS over backwards to benefit that villainous Mary-Sue Catra is utterly astounding! I can’t believe more people don’t call her out on her plot armor, I mean she beat Hordack twice the SAME. EXACT. WAY.
Jeeze…
it isn't really hard to beat someone the same exact way twice when they have a fatal weakness that can result in instant KO tho
@@dimensionvisitor7689 Yeah but you think the genius dictator who concurred most of the planet and was show smart enough to SUCK. THE. AIR. FROM. A. ROOM would know better and cover up or defend his weak point. Especially since it already happened once before.
@@tomnorton4277 okay.
@@tomnorton4277 I would still be smart enough to defend my weaknesses so I don’t get beaten the exact same way again.
Villains can be creators pets, being protected from the plot when in all likelihood they should have suffered some logical setbacks ergo a Marry Sue.
I'm not against the idea of Catra becoming a main villain since Catra was She-Ra's original nemesis in the original toyline but then they added Hordak (who was originally a MOTU character) for the filmation series, but the Catra in the reboot just didn't feel like main antagonist material and them trying to force it was pretty frustrating
Sadly, Noelle is a big believer on the "One Good Thing" school of redemption. You see it with Catra, you see it with Shadow Weaver, and you see it with Hordak. All of them do a decent thing to show they are redeemable (Catra helping Glimmer, SW sacrificing herself for Adora and Catra, and Hordak's Darth Vader moment with Horde Prime), and in the show writer's mind, that means they are already redeemed. Honestly the only effective redemption in the show was Scorpia, and maybe Kyle and friends, although the former is mostly because she was always shown as a nice girl, and the latter because they are so underwritten there was never any reason for them to stay.
Awesome analysis, as always.
as someone pointed out Scorpio left the hoarde because Catra was mean to her. that sounds nice.. until you remember she with no guilt bombed a whole kingdom.
I like the idea of him as a sympathetic antagonist, and his relationship with Entrapta was good, but the execution of his redemption arc was outright terrible.
In a way better show, there would be a whole series arc that gives him a sympathetic angle, and play on the idea that he’s doing these awful things to please Horde Prime, and every terrible thing he does destroys him on the inside.
Then, when finally faced with the consequences of his actions, he has some kind of mental breakdown and spends the final season trying to atone for what he did.
But nah. More Catra! 🤣
See how easy it was to come up with that? They had 52 episodes and they wasted very second of it. Hordack doing horrible things because it’s all he knew but felt remorse for doing them would have been a fascinating character arc. If you add in him having an actual Fatherly relationship with Adora, with him starting to push her happiness above his mission to Prime and it be a great character dilemma.
But nope, got kiss Catra’s ass because she’s the “bestest eva”…
Precisely, it also doesn't exactly help that in season five when Hordak rejects Horde Prime and declares that he has made a life for himself, it was one where he was trying to conquer a whole planet causing countless deaths and other unimaginable horrors. In other words, the same thing he was doing while he was serving as a General under Horde Prime, albeit being just one planet instead of countless others.
What's really unsettling is the fact that Hordak seems to Try and Glorify and Justify it as being better than what Horde Prime is doing, when, newsflash, it really really isn't.
And the same applies to Catra.
As one other RUclipsr, EquesTron pointed out in his video,
here is a link: ruclips.net/video/X-lhDhGeSgM/видео.html
see time, 6:46 to 8:55 and 14:31 to 20:30 of the video for further explanation.
There was a lot of Foreshadowing and build-up in the previous seasons that lead all the way up to 3rd Season's final episode that made Catra, not just come off as, but as an actual really irredeemable villain and that even Adora herself had finally given up on trying to help her, and even hating Catra by the end of it. Something that, was later reinforced in season 4, when the two met again. Yet in Season 5, they just suddenly decide to give her a redemption arc. All of this, despite the fact, Catra had literally tons of chances to not continue to be evil in earlier parts of the series and just a season ago.
Furthermore, Catra hardly made any efforts to actually better herself or actually face the consequences of her behavior and actions. Let alone earn the trust of the other Rebels.
The only, reason why they even tolerate her is that Adora, Glimmer, and Bow seem to trust her, and even that is so fake and poorly written because if you've been paying attention to the show while watching it, you would have noticed that Glimmer too has an extreme hatred for Catra. She was after all the one who did cause her mother's death and nearly destroy all of reality. Sure we can argue that Glimmer got over her hatred for Catra because of the time they spent on Horde Prime's ship, but it still doesn't explain why Adora and Bow started trusting Catra so quickly. Adora especially, since she had begun to start hating Catra.
In fact, It's like they're trying to retcon Adora's and Glimmers hatred of Catra and resolve to take her down in season 3 and 4, and giving Catra a redemption arc at the end of the story as more of a means to have the ship between Catra and Adora rather than actually redeeming the character, while at the same time saying that it's all still canon. And let me just say, this is a very terrible idea, and really ruins the story's narrative and themes.
@@ChroniclerV YES 👏👏👏 YES TO EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID 👏👏👏
@@ChroniclerV An excellent run down of all the problems. Great work.
And you what's even dumber?
When one actually tries to judge this by the standards the writers and showrunners set up themselves, you'll notice that the show is still terrible and badly written.
Seriously, Adora and Catra's ship or "Catradora" is the most Toxic ship there is.
And that's not even taking into account the extremely blatant Stereotypical portrayal of characters in the series. Examples include:
1) Swift Wind being portrayed as being the overly dramatic attention-seeking activist/alarmist stereotype.
2) Double-Trouble's portrayed as being an overly flamboyant and dramatic actor/thespian stereotype.
3) Netossa being portrayed as a loud, boisterous black woman stereotype.
And speaking of Netossa, anybody finds it weird why the Showrunners and Writers excluded her and Spinnerella for most of the first four seasons and making them background characters, despite the fact that they're senior members of the Princess Alliance as well as people of colour, different body structure, and Lesbians?
Didn't the Crew, their follower, and many other supporters for the media and LGBTQ community slam other companies and shows doing all of this? Why the heck is it the moment Crew-Ra does it, it suddenly becomes "praiseworthy", or "genius" or "proper representation", when not too long ago they were looking down upon it?
It's like the writers and showrunners don't even have any proper consistent and discernable standards.
It all makes sense when you remember that all they cared about were their ships ;D Their ships all sailed and that was alllllll that mattered!
At least that’s what Twitter and Tumblr seem to think and we all know they’re not the most well adjusted people.
Reminds me of the skit from Terrible Writing Advice.
Reviewer: "Real people don't act that way. The writer must be insane."
Writer: "I'm not insane. The voices in my head told me to write them that way."
“Missed opportunity” “No explanation” “Inconsistent” “Came out of nowhere” “Anticlimactic” these are words that you hear over and over again with this show.
Modern.
Writing.
The heroes never confront him, he was easily beaten, he just relinquishes chain of command to Catra through no other reason then it's her and never seems to grow learn from mistakes like contently letting Catra off until it's her time to be the leader. He's just returns to fill a ship with a flimsy "redemption" of shooting Horde Prime. Dr. Doom could help defeat Thanos, that doesn't recant all he's done.
Hordak feels like a case the showrunners having a character and not knowing what do with, because he didn't fit into Nolle's livejournal entries so they just have him as nearly a background character or just another stooge since they needed to have the main villain(used loosely) in the show
@Blue Dragon Audio that a insult to the cheese.
Exactly he was just a place holder as “evil leader” until Cattra could take over and then was reduced to a bottom bitch/love interest. Prime was brought in to be the bigger threat so Catra could join the good guys and end up with Adora because that’s what happened in Nolle’s fanfiction with her self inserts.
@@cartoonking1789 Quite. Horde Prime was just there so they can be like "Oh no. I can't usurp command. Guess I'm good now." while Adora after all the abuse realizes she was meant to be Catra's, unlike the one Noelle couldn't get with in her early years.
If they somehow managed to do a movie and someone did it out of pure spite of the show and in the first 10 minutes has Catra backstab Adora in service of a "Horde Alpha" to become queen of Etheria, which ultimately gets her killed. Anyone who paid attention would "Yeah. That's what she would do." only the shippers would say it's out of character.
@@MaverickhunterXZero And the only reason she could usurp Prime was the same reason anything happened on the show because the plot decided she couldn’t. No character accomplished anything because they had a cunning plan or they did something clever or even dumb luck, it was because Deus Ex Machina HIMSELF (Or rather Nolle) came down and MADE the plot happen because that what they wanted to have happen regardless if it made sense. The horde is a dangerous threat but also as about as competent as team rocket, it all depends on how the plot needs them to be. Adora is good at being She-Ra but is also unsure and second guesses herself, it all depends on what the plot needs her to be. Catra is a master manipulator who is the smartest person in the room but only when the plot NEEDS her to be, when it’s time to get back with Adora then “Oh no! A bigger scarier bad guy is here and he’s sooo bad even best girl Catra can’t stop him! The only thing to do is make out with her punching bag Adora so their sweet and pure uwu lesbian powers can save the day! What pay for her crimes? What are you talking about? She’s just a cute sassy cat girl who is in Love~ the plot says so!”
He's not the main rival (Catra), or the main antagonist (Prime), or even the hero's parental figure (ShadowWeaver). Hordak has no place in this series beyond being Entrapta's shipping buddy.
The Catra arc was far worse. "Oh Glimmer I killed your mom and almost destroyed the planet, going against Hordak. I lied to everyone, endangered even the people I grew up with. But all that's ok because I have been in love with Andorra since i was child just like you are with Bow so BFF right!" Yeah, we're all going to ignore that completely.
" in love with Andorra since i was child" --- yes and nearly blind her for asking why you assaulted her new friend. Lonnie and Adora together would've been a lot healthier prob.
Unless maybe there's unrevealed flashbacks like Lonnie secretly torturing Adora and Adora going along with it and calling it a "joke" in which case Adora getting nearly blinded is sort of more understandable.
We never actually saw what happened but Adora did comment "we were just having fun" but WHAT was the fun...
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nnnnooooooooooo.
Hordak is Catra as a straight man, so OF COURSE he doesn't repent for his actions and still gets the happy ending, and the girl.
I was watching the A:TLA scene where Zuko apologizes to Iroh for his betrayal. Poor Zuko is wracked with guilt and in tears as he apologizes, you can tell he's devastated by what he did and deeply fears Iroh will never forgive him.
Hordak? Never fears Entrapta wont forgive him, never experiences deep, sincere guilt. Gets a pass because tragic backstory.
We ALL have a tragic past, but that should NEVER be used to justify Evil.
Cry me River, Hordak.
But the thing is entrapta and hordak were always on good relationship that's until catra betrayed them both
@@tomnorton4277 and what about when he regained his memories? A person who feels deep guilt for the crimes he committed, given what Hordak did, would fall to pieces in grief.
@@tomnorton4277 i expect them to plan these story beats out. Their poor planning is not my problem, i simply evaluate and opine upon the final product. Azula comparison is flawed because her arc as a character was never about redemption, it was about her downfall in her pursuit of power. She was never shown to be anything but gleefully evil. Don't plant seeds if you arent willing to show their growth. Hordak's "redemption" isn't offscreen. Like Catra's, it's poorly executed and never should have happened.
@@tomnorton4277 so then he's a heartless warmonger who learned to love himself and got a girlfriend who isn't as evil as he is. And we are supposed to CHEER for his happy ending.
Wonderful.
@@tomnorton4277 and once free of brainwashing and aware of what he did, if he has any type of conscience he'd feel deep guilt and have an emotional breakdown. Remember that self esteem you mentioned? He wouldn't feel worthy of it because the guilt would eat away at his self perception and worth.
Since you argue that his arc was about self esteem and NOT redemption, that would mean Hordak is heartless.
The reason he was able to take over a planet is the same reason why he on a win made Catra a force captain and the same reason Bow’s Dad’s never questioned Bow going to “school” and the same reason why Perfuma is a pacifist sometimes but will use her overpowered abilities other times.
Because this show has writes pull things out of their own asses to make the plot THEY want to happen. Who cares if it doesn’t make sense and there are plot holes everywhere, they have to make sure the story goes the way THEY want it. Angella needs to redeem herself from being a “coward”? Better sacrifice herself, who cares if she was actually rational and her Daughter was a brat who rushed into situations with no plan the story needs her to die and only mention it when it’s convenient the plot.
Who cares that Catra should logically never been made force captain and quite honestly should have been killed when she laughed at Hordack to his face in front of his army, she needs to be able to be on the front lines to confront her victim-I mean rival Adora and build up “sexual tension”.
Beautiful just beautiful this comment is just lovely it exactly what I thought about the series put together in a nice little bow!
I would say it's sad that the "toy commercials" has better consistency, but those commercials had people that cared behind the wheel.
@@CoolG97 those people said “Okay this might be about selling toys but we’re going to put as much effort and care that we can into it”.
@@qattieg7869 Thank you, was just telling it like it is,
@@cartoonking1789 You're Welcome
“No explanation” another good description for this show.
I remember when you guys mentioned this on Twitter! Honestly, Nu-Hordak would've made for such an interesting twist. Imagine knowing you're a clone meant to do evil things only to discover a purpose outside of your intended use and to desire more of that? And keep in mind, this is for a character who's committed countless war crimes and cases of child abuse. It begs the question of whether or not everyone deserves to be redeemed, even if they're that horrible of a person.
I thought that with Horde Prime, at the very least, they would look into this idea of a greater evil, but nope; wasted potential. It's ironic that Nu-Ra touts itself on empathy and forgiveness and yet some of the characters don't even get that chance to shine. I get that you can't repeat the same arc with other characters without some sort of changes, but you want to know how you can do that? *Overarching Themes.* Show the audience how these characters CONNECT with each other thematically and then start their arcs.
It's like if you aren't part of the BFS, you might as well not exist. Hordak had a lot of potential and yet in 5 seasons (technically 3 if you know how the animation industry works) they did nothing with this. And for what? An underdeveloped subplot? I'm not even mad, just disappointed.
That would have required actual effort to do and as clear by the show they have only a puddle deep grasp on storytelling and characters.
Same thing about Catra , she was ready to detroy the entire world in season 3 , and in season 5 ,everyone forgave her.
Oh but M & J don’t you see? Of course having a sad backstory justifies EVERYTHING he’s done, I mean that’s how it worked for “Best girl” Catra after all, neither of them need to deal wwith the consequences of their actions they had a sad backstory and that ALL they need to be redeemed! :D
God I HATE this modern cliché of every cartoon villain being redeemed whether it’s earned or not. -_-
Agreed. The hasty redemption and forgiveness of Starlight Glimmer (and to a lesser degree, her backstory explaining the poor reason why she became a villain) is what started the decline of Friendship is Magic's popularity.
Most of the times not.
@@unlimitedrabbit I know that’s when I stopped watching the show, she killed the enjoyment for me.
Modern cartoons don’t really redeem villains as much as people really say they do think that it’s to much
@@batfang25animations39 Well it seems like it anyway. And it’s a bad trend IHO.
I hate how redemption is just given to characters that didn't earn it; when it's undeservingly given, the value is diminished.
And yet modern cartoons keep doing it for some reason.
@@cartoonking1789 Because they want everyone to have a happy ending without putting in the work
@@KelShu I find it ironic that the people who eat up these halfassed redemptions will not hesitate to flay you alive if you drawn a character with a lighter skin color or did something they perceived as wrong and feel like they can never be redeemed.
@xGungiManx Characters earning redemption is a known concept in storytelling, and him being shown having a happy ending was practically their way of saying he's forgiven
Very arrogant to proclaim who "deserves " things and who doesn't.
No, Hordak didn't deserve to go away Scott-free [and neither did Catra]. At the very least there should have been a trial where their fates were decided.
that's for season five, they should have Catra about to go on the intergalactic road trip but then there's a democratic election and Frosta is empowered to bring her to justice
Also, the redemption arc you described is pretty much OG Adora's arc. She sees the damage the Horde is doing and that starts to break down her loyalty to the Horde.
Thanos : killed half of the known universe , his punishment : got killed the same way
Frieza : has killed god knows how many , his punishment : gets killed by the thing he feared the most
Hordak : has conquer and killed god knows how many and ruined the lives of tons of people , his punishment : a slap on the wrist
Don’t forget he gets a quirky Waifu out of it too.
@@cartoonking1789 ah yes almost forgot , moral of the story that's bullshit
The better version of Thanos is that he is enthralled with death, viewing it as a blessed release from the suffering and hardships of living, and longs for it himself to be united with Lady Death, who he is both in love with and is the avatar of. His punishment is he's never be allowed to stay dead for long- not since his resurrection for The Infinity Gauntlet (because Adam Warlock killed him in '77 and he stayed dead until The Infinity Gauntlet in 1990)- something in the universe will revive him and Death herself does not actually reciprocate his affection, he is merely a tool she chose to be her herald and has been that tool from the very moment he was born.
Jaime Lannister. Killed his king to save the cities people from psycho king and leaving his crazy sister to save people by fighting with the North.
Dies by going back to his crazy sister and having rocks fall on him. Oh wait. That was how they ruined that character 😒
Yeah I agree with you
Community service? Really?
He destroyed villages, killed people, destroyed natural resources and practically brainwashed children (the whole propaganda bit, when Adora believed that the Horde is good). There are so many better endings and I will start with the most optimistic.
1. Hordak decides to escape somewhere far away after seeing what he did to people. He collects bits of his technology to escape and leaves without any word, except for a letter for Entrapta. Entrapta now has to decide if she want to find him, but risk that princesses will find him and punish him or let him be free
2. Princesses catch Hordak before he can do anything. They argue how to punish him, while Entrapta plans his escape. Soon she manages to free him and she has to decide between staying or escaping with Hordak. If she decides to stay, she ends up in the prisong fixing Hordak's technology, so princesses can use it to fix their kingdoms while Hordak has to deal with feeling guilty for leaving Entrapta. However, if Entrapta decides to escape with Hordak, both of them end up travelling to avoid being punished and soon they find a perfect place to live together. Entrapta misses her friends, while Hordak feels guilty for his close relationship with Entrapta.
3. Hordak ends up in the prison and he has to work for princesses, otherwise they will not let people (Entrapta) visit him and make his living conditions may get worse.
4. Somebody (a soldier from the Horde or a clone) decides to kill Hordak, so they can obtain something (genetic material, etc) that will allow them to fully use the Horde's technology for their personal reasons.
4.Hordak's exoskeleton gets badly damaged and Hordak is slowly dying, because there is nothing to help him. It's because princesses decided to destroy anything related to the Horde and Hordak, so nobody can misuse his technology and spread the propaganda (I still believe that the war isn't over and there may be soldiers, who still have issues with princesses).
@Ghost Kitty
All of this.
"Did Hordak deserve a happy ending?"
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
He got off easy because he was abused (thus by the show's logic can't be held responsible for any crimes) and because he was in a ship. If he was punished Entrapta would be all alone amongst the couples.
Those are literally the only reasons he was redeemed, because the writers have no talent.
@@tomnorton4277 I think ALL of them suck.
For people that like to invoke fascist allegories, they certainly aren’t good at applying consequences. The moment Noelle’s no longer useful to the corrupt, they’ll use this to accuse her of being a Not-see sympathizer. And then she’ll be begging for help and we’ll be here to flip her the bird.
This is similar to Steven universe with the diamond situation.
We already saw a bit of that when she joked that Bow’s brother who was a farmer was named Sow because they thought she was making a slavery joke. The people Nolle panders too have no loyalty and will eat each other alive at the drop of a hat.
@@cartoonking1789 idk if that issue in particular relates? There's a lot of antiblackness in the fandom and a lot of black people didn't like that a black character was given the nickname Sow (especially since if I remember correctly they also made him look very similar to a cotton picker) and the people defending Noelle and the character designer were so ruthless that they both apologized and had to reprimand their own fanbase.
While I think she handled that well, there's a lot of stuff in her show that, if people cared enough, could be taken and construed in a negative way. People will eventually either forget about the show or start squinting at it to find things they'll have a problem with :p
@@someonerandom1198 I personally wouldn’t have made the joke but it was a stupid joke a five year old would make with all of his brothers have a name that rhymed with “Bow” and I don’t think it had anything to do with an intent to make fun of black people. Though I admit I can see why some people would take it that way. I also think since Nolle really banked on this show being diverse and progressive she should have known better that making a joke like that to an audience of people who are know to not deal well with things they don’t like.
A good portion of her audience came from Voltron Legendary Defender who were upset about gay ships in the show and she willingly stoked the fires and encouraged them to see her show saying she’d give them better representation. She let in a group of people who have a reputation for sending death threats to the cast and crew of Voltron over shipping so she should not be surprised when she stepped out of line that they pounce on her.
@@cartoonking1789 the thing about it is the people who were upset about the ming of bows sibling were black people, and there was also talk of the other siblings as well. I agree that I don't think she had the intent and she banked on the show being diverse and progressive but there's a lot of instances that show she like, has no idea she has problems with stereotypes and the fandom turned the other way until it couldn't be ignored.
They're also people that would get more mad at their ships not taking off than other issues within the show so, big surprise. It's a shame these writers and show runners keep catering to this type of audience, they don't even really know how to consistently win them over lmao
Honestly forgot how many plot holes this show had
It’s practically the entire show.
The problem with a lot of these redemptions within shows of similar ilk is that the redemption is earned rather through being than through action. Why does Hordak get a redemption? Because he is an individually flawed being that couldn't help it (in this case; he was a defective clone). He doesn't actually do anything to look back on his actions and regret or morn them nor does he really show any significant change of ideology (which does change but very much to a 'for the Horde' mentality to a 'for myself' type). None of his actions are what deem him for redemption but the construction of his character in the literal sense.
Its a sort of similar to Catra's redemption in which nothing about her change but because of her interest or things outside of her control (the who you wish to take you to bed). Catra's redemption was entirely born out of her love for Adora but her actions are actually worse in the show than Hordak (as in we see Catra do worse than what Hordak does) and none of them actually change that much in context on what she wants.
Neither of them really deserve the happy ending they get at the end of the show even though, at least one of them can work for it (and you'd be surprised it's not the cat).
Wasted potential #1: Hordak and Adora's father-daughter relationship.
It is a big reason why I started my own rewrite. In the original Hordak actually sounds hurt when Adora questions him about the Horde's true purpose, if the reboot had built on this bond instead of having Shadowweaver being Adora's caretaker it could have been more interesting (and avoid the pseudo-sister bond of what is meant to be the main pairing.).
What I had in mind was Adora being raised almost exclusively by Hordak and him actually being a good father, that way when she learns the truth Adora has a lot more to process than simply being on the wrong side of a war.
I do plan to have my Hordak to be "better" than Horde Prime but it's only because Hordak would have more patience when it comes to galactic domination. (Horde Prime in my version is the one sealed away and lets just say Hordak is in no hurry to free him.)
@Jacqueline Davis I think it'd be fun if Kyle turned out to be the long lost son of the original Adora that ended up in a different Universe.
@Blue Dragon Audio I wish we would have gotten that.
@Jacqueline Davis That's good too. I'm personally conflicted about including Kyle in my own reimagining. (On one hand I want to give him a better life and on the other I don't want to reference the reboot too much.)
"Sorry I committed genocide, guys. We good?"
“I had a hard life, you know what that’s like being war orphans and dealing with a war right? Plus I have a quirky girlfriend so that makes me relatable.”
Better question is, does anyone in this show deserve one, and NO, no one does
@Jacqueline Davis those two are the only two, but again, they're too good for this show so I sentence them to exile to another show that would use them properly and lovingly too
Nothing matters to Netflix She-Ra except for shipping nonsense; atonement for Hordak's crimes didn't mean as much as pairing him off with someone.
THIS! I mean if Crazy Cat Girl can end up doing x10 more damage then we even see and hear Hordak do and she simply gets a new haircut an a group hug, how can I even start on Hordak? Besides this show really is so hard into Shipping that I think a character totally could blow up a planet full of children, but so long as they ship well with another character, all is forgiven in the eyes of the creators. Heck I am scared to think if they Shipped Horde Prime with anyone!
Personally I think the ideal ending would be him in a prison cell having a conversation with entrapta.
I believe this too. Though I can understand other people's opinions here on why they think Hordak is not entirely irredeemable. He still committed the crimes. Which means he still needs to be held accountable. Put him in prison for a few or more years then maybe they can see about getting him to reintegrate with society. Now I'm not saying he's the only one who should be in trouble. Since there are others. The point is, the civilians are the ones who have suffered the most in this. So it stands to reason they would want some sort of retribution in the end. Especially if they learn their former enemy was still alive and kicking. What about the families torn apart by the horde they would ask? What about the fathers. mothers, sisters and brothers who watched as they lost everything to the Horde war machine? Are they just meant to go away and pretend nothing happened? No, from a writing standpoint they would demand he suffer as they have suffered and some with nothing more to lose would go to extreme lengths to make sure it would happen. But then again this is not how it went. Since the show ended before it could be explored. Though I doubt it would be.
terrible "villain" gets redeemed because honestly i think the writers forgot about him. "oh he's supposed to have some part of this story... uhhh, happy ending?"
He gets sidelined by Catra so much he barely matters at all.
Mermista's line in the end is quite the insult adddd to the injury... it's as if the authors are saying "Yeah, we're aware of that. AND WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT"
“Have some more SHIPPING!”
If they HAD to give Hordak a Redemption Arc... We could have gone with a sort of Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine approach. Maybe if Hordak was at once not a horrible person, but was twisted and manipulated into being that way. And maybe his Redemption revolves around him remembering who he was, and knowing he probably never be able to atone for his war crimes, decides to sacrifice himself in a way to prevent Prime's victory, simultaneously giving Adora a victory over Prime?
But no! Let's give the Tyrant and possible Mass Murdering Warlord a happy ending with his precious science-girl because we got to please the freakin' shippers! 😒
But giving him that character arc would have taken away from important things like “shipping” and “comedy”.
@@tomnorton4277 But he was cut off from the hive mind and CHOSE to keep doing what he did before, him be a drone doesn’t justify his callousn actions.
@@tomnorton4277 Did you seriously confused hordak with WRONG HORDAK!!????
@@tomnorton4277 Yet he somehow managed to get through while being a defect and doing his own thing. The show never established anything outside of him being a defect. He's been on Etheria for years and you're saying no one have tried to help him?
@@tomnorton4277 I call bullshit on that one. You said we don't know anything Hordak went through so we wouldn't know if the Etherains weren't peaceful. All of that is just a pity way for ship bait.
No, he honestly didn't. Unlike better-written antagonists who get a redemption arc, Hordak, like all Tumblr/Woke/Twitter villains gets an easy redemption with no effort; and no real substance. Just like Catra. Many in the comments have put together more poignant statements and summaries; the long and short of it, no, no he did not. Nobody save for a handful of characters, most of them NOT the main characters deserved a happy ending.
Yeah a lot of these types of stories are trying to be zuko except they’re not putting in the time and effort to make the redemption feel earned, justified, depth to the character/there situation, with shera 2018 and Steven universe being the biggest offenders, and with those ones they don’t realize the redemption feels way less impactful if they redeem ALL there major villains
Speaking of the tumblr type writers they do these types of villains because they come from the “the villain is always more interesting then the hero” so they focus too much on the villains and not enough on the hero which causes the problem in the first place
True even Azula didn't get her redemption arc and just left Zuko and the Gaang. Even piccolo jr has a great redemption arc and he wasn't really a villain
@@maadtee6281 And same goes for Tien and Yamcha, even tho the two were more of a rival than anything.
With how much this show and its characters sucked it makes me upset that Masters of the universe Revelations might be a bait and switch and have a similar story because the animation and voice cast for Revelations is amazing.
You’re so right, Wrong Hordack was superfluous, just another unnecessary comic relief that took time away from character development and the story. They could have made him regular Hordack and the story would have benefited from it.
Hell if anything Weong Hordack proves why regular Hordack shouldn’t be redeemed, Hordack was cast out as a defective and decided to be a dictator. Wrong Hordack was cut off from the hive mind and he helps the hero’s. Our Hordack CHOSE to do horrible things so WHY should we want him to get redemption?
That's because Hordak was indoctrinated and DIDN'T HAVE A SUPPORT GROUP. There was nobody to tell him what he was doing was wrong, unlike with Wrongie, who ended up with Adora, Bow and Entrapta. Hordak was probably alone until he got involved with criminals.
@@cosmiquealiene6168 But we don’t see that, Hordack was cut off from the hive mind and cut off from the fleet on a foreign world and he thought “Well better keep doing what I was doing before.” Wrong Hordack didn’t have that urge, he was like a lost puppy only clinging to the group because he thought that lead him back to Hordack, which in itself is stupid because you think Prime’s hive mind would have it ingrained in the clones that anyone who isn’t chipped or a clone is an enemy and not to be trusted.
I think this isn't a fair comparison. Wrong Hordak was confused and panicking since he lost the connection to Prime. We see that the clones aren't just mind controlled, they're actually brainwashed into praising their Master, since they were made by him so they don't know nothing else. It took some time to convince Wrong Hordak that the Master had lied to him.
Now add to this the fact that Hordak didn't had anyone to tell him the truth and thought he was a failure, needing to prove himself to the Master. There's was only one way he knew how to do that, and that's what he did.
I'm not excusing his actions tho, I just think that he had potential to an interesting arc. Also I agree that Wrong Hordak was a waste of time and completely unnecessary.
So, my take on Hordak is kind of muddied since I've spent quite a bit of time thinking of how I'd change him if I were to rewrite this show. As is he's underutilized given how important he should be to the narrative. And does he deserve a happy ending, well... Catra got one and she tried to destroy reality so the bar's pretty low.
Nope he didn't deserve a happy ending....it's Space Hilter!!!! His "redemption" arc was nonexistent and they relied on shipping to redeem him
Not to mention he barley has any presents because he lacks screen time.
More like Hitler Youth.
@@cartoonking1789 exactly. He did nothing to make me think he was a threat. But definitely made me think he was a joke
@@CyrilSmithVA he was a joke who off screen conquered a world so we know he’s a jerk and he’s incompetent so WHY should we care if he gets redeemed?
For the last tine, Hordak is a Communist and was indoctrinated by a "Hitler's Youth" cult!
Y'all remember when Entrapta's main part of her character development was supposed to be about her caring more about human life? Yeah I think the writers forgot too; since she ran off with a warlord that didn't repent for his sins...
@Everton Harvey But he’s so dark and broody though…
Gag me. XP
@@cartoonking1789
*Horde Prime takes over Hordak's body and starts choking Entrapta*
E: "H-harder"
HP: "What??"
E: "Ehh noth-.. you know what screw it, if you're gonna choke me, do it the way I like it and just squeeze harder! I know you're still in there Hordak!"
HP: "...No; it's still me, Horde Prime, your lord and savior."
E: "Oh.... well this is awkward."
HP: "You know what I can do to make this not awkward anymore?"
E: "WHAT WHAT?! TELL ME TELL ME?!"
HP: *Snaps neck*
-CREDITS ROLL-
@@JustEverton A happy ending lol
Yeah I may liked the concept of what hordak entire character is trying to be but after everything in the series it just DOSENT feel and it certainly wasn’t earned even though his interaction with entrapta were pretty good.
Another great vid as always M and J!
As some guy who watched the whole blasted mess, I sure got no happy ending. Only good that came out of Fake-Ra eas finding solid smaller channels like the true Wonder Twins here. M & J do an excellent job showing how irredeemably terrible this series is.
@Blue Dragon Audio Same, both good channels who deserve more subs.
It’s like finding an oasis after trudging through a desert.
No, Hordak needs to be locked up as a criminal, in a real jail! He had prisoners when he was occupying the fright zone!
What a pity Brightmoon Castle has no prison then! XD Oh well...I guess he'll have to do community service instead and actually better the planet rather than rot in gaol.
You know what sucks about Horde Prime? S5 blew it because this character is essentially just a scarecrow for as much as he means to the main characters, Adora didn't know about him, he didn't care about Ethernia specifically and just kind of came across it at the right time by sheer chance and if he had arrived 5 minutes earlier he would've fucked off without being the wiser. He really was just a "Get our villains out of consequences" card.
And They pretty much had to after Season 4 had Catra double down and somehow be an even bigger asshole than Season 3 Catra. Season 5 might have worked better if it had come right after season 3 and you could maybe add in the possibility that Catra was so down because she realized she tried to kill everyone and Adora hated her now for good reason, but to have it after Season 4 that proved she's more than willing to shrug off being a murderer and then head towards burning down more cities without remorse? Fuck off, Catra being sad after she loses her position of power isn't character development, it's having no better options. No fucking shit she decided to work towards being liked by the others, the Horde was gone and Horde Prime would at best make her a mindless puppet, what other choice did she have? She didn't give up anything, she didn't change her ways when she had the chance, she waited until it was literal death or slavery waiting and then she switched sides. What an absolute terribly written character.
My answer to Hordak deserving a happy ending: FUCK NO! Despite how badly the show tries to gloss over the horde's rule and terribly fails to demonstrate the scale of the horde, making it seem like they only have about twenty guys total, the horde has been conquering Etheria, taking child soldiers and sending prisoners to Beast Island with the intention of killing them.
I think the only reason why the writers attempted to give him a happy ending is because one of them shipped him with Entrapta and one of the writers thought he had a close relationship with Adora like in the classic series (despite that not happening because this show has sloppy as all hell writing).
We know for certain was at least a big enough threat to make Glimmer and Angella believe that he/his forces killed Micah, so him killing others offscreen is not out the question at all.
IMO, this incarnation is the weakest version of Hordak in animation. 80s Hordak showed be could fight She-Ra on decent level and had more of a connection to Adora since he kidnapped her specifically because she was special.
Meanwhile, 2000s Hordak was a huge threat that even Skeletor and King Hiss feared him. His army was massive and he was so powerful that King Grayskull had to sacrifice himself just to seal him and The Horde away.
Nu-Ra Hordak, on the other hand, repeatedly losses to Catra in fights and She-Ra is nowhere near as powerful as her 80s counterpart, who could do stuff like throw a mountain or push a moon away. It makes both hero and villain look rather lame compared to their 80s counterparts.
They neutered Hordack to artificially build up Catra.
I just don't get the mentality from these showrunners who kept giving genocidal villains a free pass because of their sad backstories.
Well, it "worked" for Steven Universe.
They want To try and capture the magic with Zuko from the Last airbender.
That really bothers me 🙄, like that sends such a twisted and a TERRIBLE message to the young audiences.
@@Retrogirl-sc5ni not to mention it’s just plain lazy writing.
For the last time...Hordak did not commit genocide! And I can prove it!
He had so much potential. 😔 Also, I think it’s been confirmed that he’s been put into Beast Island community service. But still, that was a confusing end for Hordak.
Oh yeah, community service TOTALLY makes up for being a war criminal. ◔_◔
@@cartoonking1789 IKR? He needs more punishment.
what kind of community service can a person even do on beast island?
@@imp360 clean up the sand.
@@Retrogirl-sc5ni Add Catra in there two she was leading the horde too, she didn’t seem to feel remorseful when she was on top.
Every time I see videos praising the show [thinking its going to be a an actual critique of the show] and people talking about how 'deep' and 'well-written' it is in the comments section, it... it just really makes me feel very tired.
I try making good of the 'not interested' and even the 'don't recommend channel' functions, but there are just so many...
It kind is discouraging when you see this shit gets eaten up when people with talent get ignored.
That's almost as annoying as "X being a total X for 9 minutes" videos. (Worst is RUclips thinks my interest in the original series means I want all the videos about the reboot)
It’s sad that some people and the show itself is SO blind and dismissive of the genocidal villains, as well as many of the awful messages in this show.
You referring to people like Sin Squad? Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with the commenters on her videos?
@@harlannguyen4048 Not that channel, specifically, but yes, on a few occasions. They either don't respond or take too long to respond (and always at the most inconvenient times)
This just reminds me of how in Steven Universe the diamonds (yes pink too) were able to walk away Scott free after their horrible crimes
Redeeming someone like Hordak is like redeeming Megatron, which actually happened in a comic series the difference is that Megaton’s most likely made more sense and wasn’t for shipping purposes.
Please make a video on all the plot holes
That could be their first hour long video
They could just show the whole show wouldn’t change much
Or they could make a 5 second jjust saying the words; "All of It."
That would be accurate too.
That either be super long because of all of them or super short by simply saying “everything”
I blame Steven universe. Rebecca sugar has this weird thing for you should forgive crimes against humanity.
I Hate how he was reduced to being a discount Beast from “Beauty and the Beast”, he was the man bad guy of the OG show but he did jack shit and was overshadowed by Nolle’s toxic abuser version of Catra. They didn’t even give a reason for him to be in the show, the show randomly pooped him into existence so he could “lead” an evil empire to come in conflict to the “hero’s” but he’s so inconsequential to the story he could be replaced by anyone. He didn’t even have any relationship to Adora, whose supposed to be his Daughter figure.
Stevenson didnt care about anything but a certain romance plot
@@DD8842 between the main character, and an abusive stalker lol
@@DD8842 I know, it sickens me people eat it up as a cute and healthy relationship.
Correction: Beauty and the Beast is discount Entrapdak XD
@@cartoonking1789 if catra was a man, it would have been seen as the the toxic, abusive relationship it was
Oh, boy. As someone who dislikes She-Ra 2018 but understands what some of the writers were going for, Hordak is a particularly sad case of the writers undercutting what could’ve been an excellent sympathetic villain because Catra. And “because Catra” is probably the best way I can describe where this show went wrong.
Here’s how I would’ve handled him:
1. Show him being a dad to Catra and Adora. For all the focus the writers put on Shadow Weaver being an abusive piece of crap, you’d think that installing a reasonable counterbalance would’ve happened. 80s Hordak and Shadow Weaver raised Adora as their own after kidnapping her (albeit brainwashing her to serve the Horde’s ideals), and the reboot could’ve done something akin to that. Where Catra took after Shadow Weaver’s scheming and manipulative attributes, we could see that Adora leaned more towards Hordak’s cultured and cunning mind. Not only would this show Hordak in a sympathetic light (since C and A see him as a tough yet reasonable dad), but it would also give Adora hesitance to fight the Horde (that isn’t Catra-related) and would explain why she was among the best cadets- she was raised and trained by Hordak himself!
Granted, this would’ve required Reboot!Adora to be a better character, too, but I can dream.
2. Show that he’s tired of conquest and that he wants something new, but he can’t leave the Horde’s ranks because of Horde Prime keeping tabs on him.
Admittedly, the conquest of Etheria seemed a touch too easy in the reboot (considering each kingdom’s leaders, though…). So why not make that a plot point? The deal with my take on Hordak is that he’s pretty much done with Etheria outside of dealing the rebellion, but he sends out Force Captains to deal with them so he can work on his portal. Truth be told, he’s bored with always having an advantage over the natives over the worlds conquered by the Horde and being top dog over those he’s conquered. In fact, he’s bored with conquest PERIOD.
But Entrapta opens up his mind to possibilities outside of the Horde (as well as his heart), prompting him to contemplate what he’s going to do once the portal’s finished. Either he remains loyal and invites Prime to check out Etheria or he goes rogue, starting anew on a world far away from Etheria with Entrapta in tow. Unfortunately for him, he’s denied the choice to defect thanks to Prime having better tracking chips in his clones than he does in the reboot canon. If Hordak doesn’t finish up his “work” on Etheria, Prime could just remotely kill him and replace him with someone younger, better, and not defective.
Unless Entrapta figures out a way to crack his chip (ergo setting up Season 5’s chipping plot), he’s stuck working as one of Prime’s many generals.
3. Let him and Entrapta be an evil power couple.
This one’s a bit more self-gratifying than the other two since I think Entrapdak is a fun ship (might be the healthiest one in the She-boot), but it’s one that I wish the reboot toyed with. Not only would this make Hordak more active (since it took until Season 4 to get him off his depressed rump), but it would also allow for Entrapta to be a legit villain and to provide cute moments between the two.
Honestly, we need more healthy, respectful villain couples in media. Entrapdak ain’t perfect (see the supposed age retcon for Entrapta), but I and some others like it for what it is. And by letting them be evil together, chances are they’d be fan favorites.
4. Make him an active threat.
There’s a reason why people remember Darth Vader but can’t remember much cool stuff Kylo Ren did. 80s Hordak is Vader; Reboot Catra is Kylo. One’s a layered, evil figure; the other is a whiny punk who the writers expected us to take seriously.
Reboot Hordak unfortunately falls into the same camp as Snoke- a supposedly intimidating threat that is easily disarmed and humiliated by the whiny punk teen villain they were meant to be grander than. The writers could’ve so easily done his character a service by showing flashbacks of him shredding the early rebellion (like the Horde vs King Grayskull in the 2002 He-Man show) or giving him more action than Season 4 or not letting him get his depressed tush handed to him by a teenager (Catra) with a third of his body mass. Simply put, *let him fight*.
Sorry if that was a bit long. I feel strongly about MOTU matters and I’m not happy with how the reboot handled this character. M, J, if you read this, just letting you know- you’ve got an unbiased, thoughtful approach to your criticism, and I wish you gals the best as you work on your comic! GBU
oh look yet another better story then what we were give from this crappy fanfiction of a show that Nolle barfed out.
@@cartoonking1789 Aw, thanks. Wasn't expecting one of the frequenters of this channel's comments section to see my ramblings.
Those changes would also add the emotional aspect that the writers were trying (and failing badly) to do. Adora would have to process the paradox of “this man who does all of these horrible things and ruins so many lives, is also the man who was always good to me and who I have admired and adored for as long as I can remember”. Especially if they went with the Daddy’s girl trait for Adora you suggested. If a full redemption was done for Hordak, he would have to face the fact that he truly cares for a daughter (maybe in spite of his original plan) who Horde Prime would gladly sacrifice for his benefit (something he would have seen plenty of as a clone). It could also lead to more reflection on the full impacts of his conquests (how many people have lost their Adoras because of him, how many Adoras have lost their Hordaks?).
I really like Dad!Hordak, such a waste seeing as Adora doesn't have access to her bio-family in the reboot so Hordak would still be seen as her dad. If they wanted sympathy they could given Hordak a "At least I'm not Horde Prime" mentality that prevents him from realizing how bad he truly is and once he does have him use his resources to try and protect Etheria against the Horde.
Also love the evil power couple idea, Entrapda being a Princess doesn't matter anyway so why not have her be Adora's eccentric step-mom...who builds killer robots and is clearly in her 30s.
@@CoolG97 Agreed. If anything, "Princess" Entrapta felt like a botched attempt at adding some moral ambiguity. I personally love Reboot!Entrapta (even if the show she's from is garbage) and I think that it'd be very awkward if Randor and Marlena (in a world where the legal issues aren't keeping Adam and Adora separate) found out that Adora technically had a second family.
"... and this is Entrapta. She's Hordak's girlfriend and kind of my step-mom."
"HI!!"
"..."
"Randor, honey, don't judge. We were one of the first interracial couples on Eternia*, and those two clearly look happy together."
*Considering that Randor's Eternian and Marlena's from Earth... it makes sense to say they're interracial.
The test of any series is how well it holds up over time. Bad writing is often revealed as time goes on. This show had a lot of un explored potential.
if something traumatic happens to you, and your way to cope is to harm others, i don't have any empathy for you, sorry.
Literally none of the main characters do lol
Short answer, no
But one of my comfort characters is also a war criminal (Infinite the jackal from Sonic Forces) and there is a way to redeem this type of villain, like Hordak or the diamonds from SU! Having the villain recognize what they've done wrong, obviously with help, helping rebuild cities they may have destroyed, community service, all that. Obviously people won't forgive the villain but could eventually recognize that they're trying to change. Feel free to add more things to redeem a war criminal type of villain!
You make a good point how do you feel about Catra's Redemption
They need to actually do time for their war crimes. Then again, those of the Antifa mindset are used to getting off with only a slap on the wrist.
@@bluecoin3771 Can you not bring politics into this please...?
@@animezilla4486 Catra could've been redeemed but even if they actually did it well, that wouldn't stop me from hating her. I really don't understand why people like her or why they think her relationship with Adora isn't toxic
@@Umbramus The point still stands that characters need to face consequences for their misdeeds.
Hey, that’s not a bad idea! A video talking about the plot holes in the show!
Also, side question just for funsies, who would make a better match for Adora? Carta, Lion-O from the 2011 Thundercats reboot? Or no one?
I would ship her with Keith from Voltron cause they’re both skilled with swords , can be awkward and serious in their own way and I think adoras fun side could help keith open up and adora could connect with someone about parents and stuff or maybe ship her with lance cause lance would be a good listener and he has a thing for cool skillful and kind women
Adora already had meaningful and sweet relationship with Sea Hawk in OG series. They were really cool couple that supported each other. And Adora meant alot to him because she made him change his ways and become better man.
Y'all should do a video on Plot holes in netflixs she-ra
They’d be making a week-long video for that one! XD
@@Kyuushi94 Or they could just say The Whole show lol
While I understood that Hordak is sympathetic but he's also the same person who set war on Etheria, destroying homes, lives, stolen children from their home and brainwashed them to die in a war for the Horde, enslaved Scorpia's people, pretty much lots of war crime that should have him in jail, and they expect me to forgive and move one? NOPE. Wasted potential of Hordak having a father/daughter relationship with Adora when they bloody threw that piece out of the window in favour of Noelle fanfic, when in the original, Hordak had a fatherly bond with Adora, and actually cares for her, and they don't even bother to put effect in developing the relationship. Such as him being the big boss of the show but they proceeded to yeeted that out of an air lock in favour of a Horde Prime. Why put Hordak when you're going to just leave him in a closet and fogotten. And he's not even a good villain. He can't even lead for christ sake and got his ass handed to him by Catra. Sorry for ranting, this is my frustration with the show and Hordak lost potential. If they developed Hordak more I would maybe, just maybe forgive him, but nope. I'm not one to forgive a person who kidnapped children and made them into child soldier.
I'm getting a bit of unfavorable parallels to the "villains" of Steven Universe, that being the Diamonds. Apparently they deserved to be redeemed because in the end THEY'RE the victims--despite murdering countless life organisms.
Plus people defend the diamonds by saying morals don't apply to them because their aliens. Or punishment of facing consequences for actions dosent solve anything even going as far to say criminals would be freed from prison.
Yeah I have no sympathy for them or Hordack or Catra. They are all horrible.
It’s pretty disturbing.
I don't think the diamonds are a fair comparison here.No one deserves redemption. Anyone can change and do better. I would not say the diamonds have no consequences. They lost pink forever. They are now dethroned and just trying to serve the gems they made. Yellow is working on putting back the gems she shattered back together.Also Rebeca did not had enough time to flesh the ending out as much she want.
@@blairmiller9489 I'm just bringing up people saying the diamond did nothing wrong and such and face no conquesnces just because their pretty cute or aliens and there is no such thing as right and wrong. I'd say its fair comparison. The diamonds are very lucky they got a slap the wrist. Should we take away exitcutions or the death penalty and such? Also the diamonds are acting good to please steven.
Short answer ABSOLUTELY NOT
Amazing of all the wasted potential in the show. And sad to see hostile people who defend it.
Because they are sexual frustrated shippers who only care about thirsting over ships.
Hordak sucked I hope they actually make skeletor a good villain
Some times I forget that skeleton has kinda of a good side
Truth be told if he ran off with Entrapta at the beginning of season 5 and actually had a redemption arc I would say yes
The morality in this show from what I can tell is even though your a terrible person and don’t even apologize for what you’ve done and though you haven’t actually redeemed yourself you should be forgiven. This is literally that one episode of South Park merry Christmas Charlie Manson expect not only is that a joke some how he’s more redeemable then these characters Jesus dude
Stevenson is bipolar and im guessing never had a healthy relationship or actually listened to her therapist.
@@DD8842 and has severe Mommy issues.
If your backstory is sad enough and your shippable then you can be forgiven of the most heinous war crimes.
@xGungiManx Well he received no punishment in the show and I don’t care what Nolle tweeted if it wasn’t in the show it didn’t happen. If she couldn’t have it in the show due the lack of time she should not have farted around with the story.
@xGungiManx None of the characters seemed to have a issue with him living happily ever after with Entrapta.
Hordak should of serve his sentence in jail.
A lifetime sentence.
And throw Catra in there for good measure too.
@xGungiManx I see no issue with that, throw Scorpia in there too, she only deserted because she realized Catra is a bitch.
SPOP had SO MUCH wasted potential...
Personally I feel as though a final battle between Hordak and Horde Prime would have been great, it gives Hordak his redemption and is good thematically as all Hordak wanted to do was please his brother, and only gets cast aside by doing so. Plus it was established that Hordak was Horde Primes top general so he could reasonably put up a fight, plus with what they were doing with the "Chips" at that time it could be an explanation for why Horde Prime simply can't take over Hordak like the other clones. Give us the fight and have Hordak be the one to send Entrapta back through a teleporter after maybe stunning Prime or slowing him down a bit, then have them keep fighting to the point of damaging the station enough that it starts malfunctioning and starts blowing up internally. Have the She Ra moment where she turns it into a giant tree, but show that Horde Prime survived but is wounded. Then have him pull out a last ditch effort by mutating himself with some sort of experimental magic deus ex machina and have the final battle between him and She Ra, with the other characters included as well for the final teamwork moment.
Boom, I came up with this while watching this video, before it was done. I would actually like to know what ya'll think of it.
I swear this is EXACTLY how She-Ra should have ended, now I'm even more annoyed with the original ending >:( If anyone with drawing or animation skills wants to make this happen please do! Even if it's just a comic I'll be happy although an animation would be awesome.
They should’ve shown more of Hordak trying to work against the Horde. I like to think that after the ending Hordak works to make amends with those he’s wronged though I still wish we got to see him fight more.
The writers sadly want to make a bunch of Zuko's, but don't know how to go about it.
They want a Zuko story arc without the effort or build up.
It's made clear that all the clones of Hordak Prime are programmed and have no free will. This includes Hordak. Hordak wants the approval of Hordak Prime, but why? What is in it for Hordak? Head pats?
For me, the issue is how the writers did a sloppy job of showing how Hordak was as much a programmed machine as his robots. There should have been some contrition for his actions once he gained some free will. Instead, he's "redeemed" via shipping with Entrapta, which steals his agency and makes for an unsatisfying ending. Dude goes from having his free will taken by Hordak Prime to having it being taken by Entrapta. I know you probably have no sympathy for him, but to me, he has all the agency of a cell phone. A "meh" villain, in the end.
But what do you think of Hordak in the original cartoon? I appreciated that he got a character arc at all in the reboot and his relationship with Entrapta. What I agree most with is "I remember you" being too little, too late. They spent all show developing how Shadow Weaver was a single mom with Adora as her favorite and Catra the psychologically abused sister, then it's like "Nah, these girls can get gay married and it's wholesome Representation, not incest. Maybe we'll invoke the old Adora/Hordak thing now?"
There are several key '80s episodes you could analyze regarding this relationship: the first five AKA "Secret of the Sword", "My Friend, My Enemy" where she tries to save Hordak from fading out of existence, "Ordeal in the Darklands" where he's stuck in another dimension with She-Ra, etc.
Ok, as someone who likes Hordak, and Entrapdak, i really think they could do better with him and other characters from Horde. Yes, he earn the moment when he beat Horde Prime. I really liked his monolog, but redeeming him, Entrapta and Catra completly is just wrong move. Entrapta and Hordak should stay evil, but they wanted Catadora so bad, that they coudn't have her pay for her crimes. And if she wasn't paying for them, why anybody would be angry at our boy, Hordak? Am I right? Yeah, no.
As for Wrong Hordak, I think he was important in the way to show, that Hordak after he was disconected from the hive mind was really, blank slate. He was master of his own fate and it was his own decision that lead him to making new horde. It shouldn't show he is good deep inside, cause he isn't. Entrapta and Hordak loved each other for what they were, they didn't want other to change, and this is pretty much all he deserved. Two villains can be in love and it's fine to like the ship, but claiming they must come to a good side after all he did? At least it's not as bad as Diamonds from Steven Universe.
@@tomnorton4277 I can agree on that she's neutral and helps anybody she likes, especially if the science involved, but she also had no problem with Adora begin capture and tie to a pole in the evil lair by Catra.
wrong hordak making a new horde would be intresting but it would also be intresting if he decided he wouldn't be a ruler like hordak and horde prime were
You know it's bad when Batwoman's Alice has a better redemption arc than both Hordak
and Cat-rah. At least they acknowledged the terrible things she did and gave a actual reason
for why Alice would actually turn good.
If there was an epilogue episode, there should be a scene or half the episode were Hordak atone for his actions.
You know when megatron became good in the idw comics. At least they had him apologize and tries to make up for his past sins. He has multiple conversations with ravage and even becomes a pacifist and when he was evil, he actually was competent and when he was betrayed by starscream, he punished him psychologically and physically. So you can make a sympathetic villain that has done truly vile things, but you need to be good at writing.
The thing is, IDW Transformers doesn't attempt to absolve Megatron of his atrocities like new She-Ra does. All those changes and growth in Megatron, taking him from the lead villain to a good alignment protagonist was because the story made him recognize how much of a monster he was before any of that. She-Ra can't bring itself to do that for any of these 'redeemed' villains- it acts like they just didn't do anything earlier in the story.
@@gtf234 exactly, even when megs became a autobot, very little trusted him he had to work over the course of 2 real years to get the crew of the lost light to even see him as some type of good guy. And even after he destroyed tarn and the deception justice division, he still had to redeem himself.
Good God i forgot how much plot armour they put on catra, this shows writing was abysmal.
It’s because everything was leading up to Catra getting back together with her abuse victim
I think Hordak needed to be more ruthless. If he's always getting defeated by the heroes and he's sad he's a clone. We need the villian to have an idgaf attitude and make the world burn. Basically it's his job to put people through hell and he could have done a better job of that. Then the heroes wouldn't be just pansies in a dress, Hordak Prime would be a bit more of a threat.
What would happen helped is after Catra laughed at him he strait up killers her and then throws her copse away like garbage and continues with his scheme because why should be bother listening to a noisy flea? He’s the leader of the Horde he has more important things to worry about.
This very sad and pathetic version of Hordak is nothing more than ship bait for the rabid fandom.Much like Catra who also commits terrible crimes against the people of Etheria,he gets a free pass because "true love conquers all" or some BS like that.
Exactly he was a powerful dictator with control over technology and magic and fought on the front lines and here he’s reduced to a guy who doesn’t do ANYTHING beside get beat by Catra and make goo-goo eyes at Entrapta.
IKR!? To be honest, I wouldn’t mind the shipping if it wasn’t so OVERBEARING.
@@Retrogirl-sc5ni Shipping is the lifeblood of this sad excuse for a show.
Wasted potential is the best way to describe Hordak, he did nothing the majority of the series, I often forgot he even existed and worst of all Catra kicked his ass twice in the same manner, he's more pathetic than Kyle.
Everyone and everything in the show is wasted potential.
I would say I'm surprised that a villain does horrible things, then people see they have a past, and all is forgiven...but the last of us 2 exists.
Man it's frustrating enough this Hordak stinks, but it's even more frustrating considering the last incarnation on TV screens was a remorseless all powerful warlord who never got to become the major antagonist he was meant to be
I think that Hordak is the worst encapsulation of the show's main problem with it's villains. The problem also rears it's head with Catra and Scorpia, which is that they serve colonizers and cause death and destruction, but never seem to "turn good" due to an examination of the evil ideology and coming to terms with the things they have done - instead switching sides due to other personal reasons, and never addressing their war crimes. I found it pretty bad there, especially with Catra, but Hordak was the absolute worst in this regard, never even really getting to do anything particularly heroic (besides the Palpatine throw) to give even the impression of earning a happy ending.
Hordak 🤝 The Diamond from Steven Universe
Irredeemable villain who did a one-eighty and is now on the good guy side for whatever reason
Something something “magic of friendship” or some shit.
In short: If you try to steal the redemption storyline of Prince Zuko's arc, you have to actually steal something instead of simply assuming the audience knows that this is what you want to express.
he reminded me of ozai and zuko combined
its like ozai was the villian but then aang discovered that another person was way worse and it turns out they had connections with ozai lol
Yeah hordak was there
He existed
He said a line or two
Anyways
With how things were presented in the series? No he didn't since he wasn't shown to have deserved it.
Hordak should’ve been killed off in season 4. That’s what I really think
Yeah they didn't really do a good redemption arc for hordak or any character development... Besides his friendship with entrapa...
Everyone didn't deserve JACK! The potential was THERE RIGHT THERE! But they didn't give a single fly fart about anything to try. This show was clearly made with no heart or concern about the source material. Hordak was a crazy dictator...but he's faulty so give him love!? Glimmer was a thoughtless reckless brat so give her a crown and a kingdom...oh and a pushover boyfriend who will lick her boots for her! The princess who don't give a DAMN a bout their kingdoms nor helping to AID their brother's in arms with some sorta support (THAT MAKES SENSE!) they instead fool around with LITTLE TO NO PLANNING; UNTIL THEY feel like it *Cough cough Nettosa* but SOMEHOW they still deserve to WIN. And Lastly An ABUSER gets her Victim...I mean Enabler...shot Punching bag dang it...Lover back.
-_- No, No, NO, NO, NO, NO,NO! No Hordak deserves to die, Glimmer deservers a fallen kingdom like the rest of the sad sacks they call princess of POWER! Love interest gone in the tragedy of their OWN failures THAT is how it should've ended because that is how it was written! None of these characters EARNED a THING! They just got it just because! It has always been JUST BECAUSE! They've never learned, grown...hell evolved into ANYTHING BETTER! They stayed the same through and through making them getting what they want sickeningly vile because they themselves are the villain's in pastels! Cause of their actions, ideas and character they themselves are the piss poor villain's of their own story masquerading as HEROS!
You know what would happened to them THEY WOULD ALL BE PUT ON A PIKE Dracula's decorations style because THEY did more HARM then good! Even going so far as ALLOWING the nations villains' to walk Scott free would result in an uproar...because I'm sorry means NOTHING to the people who had to pick up the pieces of their loved ones but nah it's a kids show...you have to FORGIVE & FORGET! And that is an AWEFUL lesson to show to kids when you skip over Forgiveness is earned over time, it is okay not forgive them as long as you learn from the experience and move on gradually, and there is a limit to how far you can push someone who is willing to forgive you time and time again until they themselves NEED to leave for their benefit! Put THAT lesson in. Not just let it fester like this!
Realistically, Kyle would murder them all. All of the pieces are in place for him to do it.
@@ReFriedNoodles Oh that would be too good for them...besides I wouldn't want his character to be dirtied by the massacre! But on the other hand...It would be nice to see how he'd do it! Every...STEP, SLASH, HACK AND CHOP of the way.
Fine... The next time someone wrongs you, just punch them in the throat. That's the right way to show them the consequences of their actions, right?
@@anneoneal3865 🤨 Just knowing when to walk away and NOT come back for someone who will just do it again is the best thing. Unless they are putting hands on you then you should defend yourself.
@@qattieg7869
But evildoers must be brutally punished, right? How else will the peasants/children understand that bad actions have bad consequences?