I dont get why everyone is upset. Fluffy fun rules that seem much more interesting than the basic detachment. Scouting 3 units is really great, this detachment isnt op but why are we comparing it to Necrons etc, they are the outlier. This is good and fun, what more do you want! I understand this isnt making chaos knights A or S tier but im going to be enjoying my games a lot more.
I'm not upset, just disappointed. If you only play Chaos Knights, GW genuinely expects you to pay 400 dollars to make one detachment work. At least we've been allying in Daemons, so it would have been much more player friendly to make buffs go off on non-legionaire battleline as opposed to Cultists (which as an aside are boring models in the first place so painting 80-90 of them is a chore, not a hobby). And if you regularly play competitive like I do (Usually a GT every month, 3 RTTs every month) and you see that there is just one blatantly broken detachment out there, it kind of kills the enthusiasm for engaging with competitive and it is going to be upsetting to see GW playing favorites with one faction like that.
@@Bonesawisready926 Costs isn't really a reason to be upset when Chaos Knights are one of the cheaper armies, Space marine Ironstorm requires hundreds of dollars to make that detachment work, the new Tyranids warrior detachment requires you to purchase plenty of warriors and the new Custodes detachment requires you to spend ~80 quid per dreadnaught as most of them are forgeworld. it is standard for detachments to require spending. the majority of this detachment is models you most likely already own just due to the nature of how many datasheets Chaos Knights have. Sure cultists are not the most exciting models compared to big stompy knights but having access to them makes the army better no questions asked. Also Knights will be always given rules under an extremely careful watch after what happened at the beginning of this edition so I'm surprised people were expecting op rules for Knights.
@@ThetrentVal Those are all examples where the models required are part of the army you were interested in in the first place. If I wanted to play CSM, I'd have started CSM, not Chaos Knights.
@@Bonesawisready926knights are inherently going to be more of a soup faction IMO. It's best for the game when they are. Also remember that this is a detachment That would have been written after the codex ones were. It's likely the codex adds more that focus on the army itself alone, and also could contain one that had a demon ally focus. This is a nice additional optional way to play, and tons of players have cultists because they end up playing multiple chaos factions. This is a great detachment for me to get into Chaos knights as someone who already plays CSM/DG/TSONS/in AOS 3 of the chaos factions.
13:58 I want to point out that "After" and "Just After" are the same thing as per Rules Commentary, but the active player gets to choose the order of effects resolved at the same time. So it still works out.
If we had ignore cover on the battle cannon. Or as an enhancement... maybe. Instead because cover is universal it's actually an ap 0 battlecannon and I don't see a reason to use that.
Lots of disappointment in these comments. As an opponent of knights this seems sooo much more fun to play against if only because my all-comers list isn’t 50% useless because I brought anti-horde guns in it. This looks cool, is way fluffier, way more lore accurate to how these are run, and there’s some genuine playability in it as the AoW guys said.
The only Chaos faction I have is Knights because it's the least amount of trim, I'd have to spend another 350 - 400 bucks to make this detachment run properly. That's just not happening. It does kind of feel bad that only people who also play CSM and already have cultists can truly benefit from this detachment without it hitting their wallets. Also, anybody who doesn't play Necrons is going to be harshly judging the remainder of detachments that come out now, and GW brought that on themselves.
@ Completely fair on both accounts. This seems like a much more fun knights list to play against but I sympathize with needing to buy new units. My Tyranid ass isn’t buying 36 warriors either.
@@Avinan7 At least with the Tyranid warrior detachment you get some benefits for your big bugs. +2 S ranged is a massive breakpoint for exocrines, and you can get the 5+ Invuln on Gargoyles by attaching the winged prime to them. Hell there was a list that just won a GT with only 12 warriors running this detachment that Tactical Tortoise just covered. There are little things they could change to make it easier on the wallet too. Instead of D3 dead models, just make it D3 mortal wounds so Accursed Cultists with the Commune could have a chance to survive. You could also just run 4 AC boxes and 2 DC boxes then and save yourself a little cash. But if you want to make this detachment competitive, it's at minimum 6 cultist boxes and characters and they'll sit on my shelf for eternity when the codex comes out.
@@Bonesawisready926 Same situation, but I'm getting 50 cultists, 3x Accorsed units and 2x Dark Commune for 35 euros. Just print in STL, from yourself, internet, or friends.
I see myself bringing 30 cultists for turn 1 scouting and being able to respawn them into reserves once per game. I'm going to eat the rest for the pathetic buff they offer. Your anti-horde guns will not shoot many/any infantry.
Love this detachment, after few games, the double gattling despoiler and even Tyrant with Profane Altar is amazing!... only question is... will the DAMNED units be blocked in teams by specific CSM player? If so, it will make me really, really sad :(
Welp. Time to wait for the Codex to see if we get a detachment worth using. Edit: After going to work and thinking it over, I do like the detachment but I'm not interested in CSM so im not going to be investing in any Cultists to play this. To everyone that is, I hope that you enjoy it and it's as fun as you think ot is
As much as i enjoy sustained or lethals on wardogs and having more allies im incredibly disapointed... What chaos knights needs is sth that unlocks the majority of their unplayable roster... Lethal or sus1 with strings attached is not enough to make the absurdly weak big knights viable... and the enhancements are all insufficent for that as well... And quite frankly when it comes to wardog spam im not sure... Again the army rule is nice and the allies are nice, there is like a couple good strats in here is well, but im not sure if that is really better than having KNIGHTS OF SHADE which is such a big deal. 1 simple change would make this the big knight saviour: If they got the rr1s to hit and wound instead of the whimsy damned units
I like the flavor, but this feels lazy. Most of these rules feel like stuff they picked up from 9th edition Chaos Knights codex mixes with the Iron Warriors cultist rules from the 9th edition Chaos Space Marines codex.
What I wanted: a detachment rule to affect knights and shake up internal balance What I got: trade a wardog for 3x10 cultists, get some scout-stickying going on, 2cp to respawn a cultist later on for scoring purposes. If you have, say, 11 wardogs in sacrifice range, they're eating 11d3 (22) and on average cultists fail half the tests, which is flat 3. So another 5-6 fails, call it 15. You're eating 37 cultists per turn for your buffs. You're eaten your entire detachment rule in 2 turns. Phenomenal. Do you get an insane buff? Or some milquetoast "other factions have this always" ability? Yeah no. It might be better than the detachment, but that's because the detachment sucks.
When I saw that the teaser said they were bringing friends along, I was hoping it was referring to Daemon units and they were going to give aura buffs based on the god the Daemons came from (+1 advance and charge in 6 inches of Slaanesh units, +1 A w/ Khorne, -1 to hit ranged w/ Nurgle etc.). I think this detachment is just fine, but considering Shatterstar came out during these releases, this feels kind of lazy and like the executives undersold cultists and their strategy for upping sales is trying to get Knights players to buy 9 boxes of them. No thanks, I'll wait for the codex. I put a lot of work into converting my War Dogs and want to get a lot of games with em anyways.
@ well it’s a completely different way to run chaos knights so of course it not going to feel right. But if this detachment is anything like the codex detachments I expect we’ll get more forced on fielding knights rather than just war dog spam.
@@Zabzim im fine with fielding more big knights only problem is they are even squishier in the new detachment... and they still dont hold well vs close combat
@ well knights have a toughness problem in that they’re too tough and that’s the problem. If you think knights are squishy you really need to go play another army they’re not squishy in the slightest, it’s just because they so tough they can’t have good saves and so they feel squishy. If knights were toughness 8/9 they could have a decent save and so wouldn’t feel squishy in combat
This detachment is garbage. This makes the army rule even worse and I'm tired of running allies to make the army good. I want to run knights. This would have been better if they made it work off the wardogs. Like each dog takes a leadership test if they fail they take d3 + 1 mortal but the buff goes off either way. Then people would bring a a good mix of bigs and smalls because the bigs would give off an aura for smalls and smalls could buff the bigs. The cultists won't keep pace with the knights and will be out of range to buff them. No one wanting to play competitive is going to run this. It's still going to be wardog spam and the index detachment
I agree, doing it off of War Dogs would have been better. I do like that they are trying to incentivize running bigger knights, but this detachment reeks of executives trying to offload more cultist models. If they had to do it off of non Knights units, just make it non-Legionaire battleline units instead. People wouldn't run nurglings because you risk just killing all of them on one activation. I'm not buying 8-10 boxes of cultists to make one detachment work when it's not even that much better than the index detachment.
Trash. Custodes, necrons...omg what a rule omg C knights...erm yh this is cool ..yh this ok Cutt the crap this is garbage, I'm not spending even more money and points making my useless over costed knights even more expensive. Then throw my cults away come 11th edition when they are null n void Utterly disappointed Edit : if big knights go cheaper in balance update this could be more usable
I find this is way more better than people belive. This is straightfoward helping every CK issue. Just adding cultists its enough to give us secondaries, OC, actions and screens all toghether in a way cheaper way than daemons. Everything else is a bonus. It also helps in reliability, thanks to free sustain/lethal hits on everything we want. Now I can finally roll 6 dices with Karnivore and probably doing between 5 and 6 wounds (standard its 4). In also gives A LOT of helps again melee armies (just keep your cultists directly back from your stuff. Oppo moves withing 9", 1Cp, cultists move 6" in front. Melee screened.
@Cerve909090 if the big knights come down in cost IL try this detachment out as I have CMS main I e. Cultists ect Just feels jumping through hoops to get what other armies get for nothing. Eldar re rolls hit n wound. We gotta 50 things to get close
Even if i wanted to play this, i dont have a despoiler or any csm stuff. Im not about to go drop a bunch of money just to play this either. So my knights are gonna stay dusty and im gonna keep playing daemons or deathgaurd. And no I don't have cultists for my dg and really don't care to get any.
0:00 Sponsors
0:45 Intro
3:11 Detachment Rules
5:24 Enhancements
9:02 Stratagems
18:14 Overall Thoughts
Imperial Knights detachment: Admech friends :)
Chaos Knights detachment: MANKIND IS DEAD. BLOOD IS FUEL. HELL IS FULL.
I dont get why everyone is upset. Fluffy fun rules that seem much more interesting than the basic detachment. Scouting 3 units is really great, this detachment isnt op but why are we comparing it to Necrons etc, they are the outlier. This is good and fun, what more do you want! I understand this isnt making chaos knights A or S tier but im going to be enjoying my games a lot more.
I'm not upset, just disappointed. If you only play Chaos Knights, GW genuinely expects you to pay 400 dollars to make one detachment work. At least we've been allying in Daemons, so it would have been much more player friendly to make buffs go off on non-legionaire battleline as opposed to Cultists (which as an aside are boring models in the first place so painting 80-90 of them is a chore, not a hobby). And if you regularly play competitive like I do (Usually a GT every month, 3 RTTs every month) and you see that there is just one blatantly broken detachment out there, it kind of kills the enthusiasm for engaging with competitive and it is going to be upsetting to see GW playing favorites with one faction like that.
@@Bonesawisready926 Costs isn't really a reason to be upset when Chaos Knights are one of the cheaper armies, Space marine Ironstorm requires hundreds of dollars to make that detachment work, the new Tyranids warrior detachment requires you to purchase plenty of warriors and the new Custodes detachment requires you to spend ~80 quid per dreadnaught as most of them are forgeworld. it is standard for detachments to require spending. the majority of this detachment is models you most likely already own just due to the nature of how many datasheets Chaos Knights have. Sure cultists are not the most exciting models compared to big stompy knights but having access to them makes the army better no questions asked. Also Knights will be always given rules under an extremely careful watch after what happened at the beginning of this edition so I'm surprised people were expecting op rules for Knights.
@@ThetrentVal Those are all examples where the models required are part of the army you were interested in in the first place. If I wanted to play CSM, I'd have started CSM, not Chaos Knights.
@@Bonesawisready926knights are inherently going to be more of a soup faction IMO. It's best for the game when they are. Also remember that this is a detachment That would have been written after the codex ones were. It's likely the codex adds more that focus on the army itself alone, and also could contain one that had a demon ally focus. This is a nice additional optional way to play, and tons of players have cultists because they end up playing multiple chaos factions. This is a great detachment for me to get into Chaos knights as someone who already plays CSM/DG/TSONS/in AOS 3 of the chaos factions.
@Bonesawisready926 it's a digital detachment - if its too busted it can be nerfed quickly and easily
13:58 I want to point out that "After" and "Just After" are the same thing as per Rules Commentary, but the active player gets to choose the order of effects resolved at the same time. So it still works out.
Video starts at 3:10
It's definitely better than the current. Sustaned on a X2 battle cannon Despoiler seems good.
If we had ignore cover on the battle cannon. Or as an enhancement... maybe.
Instead because cover is universal it's actually an ap 0 battlecannon and I don't see a reason to use that.
Lots of disappointment in these comments. As an opponent of knights this seems sooo much more fun to play against if only because my all-comers list isn’t 50% useless because I brought anti-horde guns in it.
This looks cool, is way fluffier, way more lore accurate to how these are run, and there’s some genuine playability in it as the AoW guys said.
The only Chaos faction I have is Knights because it's the least amount of trim, I'd have to spend another 350 - 400 bucks to make this detachment run properly. That's just not happening. It does kind of feel bad that only people who also play CSM and already have cultists can truly benefit from this detachment without it hitting their wallets.
Also, anybody who doesn't play Necrons is going to be harshly judging the remainder of detachments that come out now, and GW brought that on themselves.
@ Completely fair on both accounts. This seems like a much more fun knights list to play against but I sympathize with needing to buy new units.
My Tyranid ass isn’t buying 36 warriors either.
@@Avinan7 At least with the Tyranid warrior detachment you get some benefits for your big bugs. +2 S ranged is a massive breakpoint for exocrines, and you can get the 5+ Invuln on Gargoyles by attaching the winged prime to them. Hell there was a list that just won a GT with only 12 warriors running this detachment that Tactical Tortoise just covered. There are little things they could change to make it easier on the wallet too. Instead of D3 dead models, just make it D3 mortal wounds so Accursed Cultists with the Commune could have a chance to survive. You could also just run 4 AC boxes and 2 DC boxes then and save yourself a little cash. But if you want to make this detachment competitive, it's at minimum 6 cultist boxes and characters and they'll sit on my shelf for eternity when the codex comes out.
@@Bonesawisready926 Same situation, but I'm getting 50 cultists, 3x Accorsed units and 2x Dark Commune for 35 euros. Just print in STL, from yourself, internet, or friends.
I see myself bringing 30 cultists for turn 1 scouting and being able to respawn them into reserves once per game.
I'm going to eat the rest for the pathetic buff they offer.
Your anti-horde guns will not shoot many/any infantry.
The "worthless chattel" stratagem should be a standard rule for Orks.
I mean, not shooting just because some other boys are nearby?
Love this detachment, after few games, the double gattling despoiler and even Tyrant with Profane Altar is amazing!... only question is... will the DAMNED units be blocked in teams by specific CSM player?
If so, it will make me really, really sad :(
Welp. Time to wait for the Codex to see if we get a detachment worth using.
Edit: After going to work and thinking it over, I do like the detachment but I'm not interested in CSM so im not going to be investing in any Cultists to play this. To everyone that is, I hope that you enjoy it and it's as fun as you think ot is
great work!
Thanks John and Nick
Warpsmiths and an equivalent healing passive to imperial knights, should exist too. But oh well 🤷♂️
Thanks for the vid !
I think this detachment will be better than the current one, but no matter what it's really different so I like it
Hear me out. Despoiler with profane alter. Dual gatling cannon with sustained and lethal. 36 ap2 dmg 2 shots.
try 2 battlecannons instead... way better :P
@@lassemelson5668 ap-1, nope
@@Cerve909090 lethal hits + sustained will help :P
As much as i enjoy sustained or lethals on wardogs and having more allies im incredibly disapointed...
What chaos knights needs is sth that unlocks the majority of their unplayable roster...
Lethal or sus1 with strings attached is not enough to make the absurdly weak big knights viable... and the enhancements are all insufficent for that as well...
And quite frankly when it comes to wardog spam im not sure...
Again the army rule is nice and the allies are nice, there is like a couple good strats in here is well, but im not sure if that is really better than having KNIGHTS OF SHADE which is such a big deal.
1 simple change would make this the big knight saviour: If they got the rr1s to hit and wound instead of the whimsy damned units
Both fluffy and powerful, this will be the go to knight detachment
I like the flavor, but this feels lazy. Most of these rules feel like stuff they picked up from 9th edition Chaos Knights codex mixes with the Iron Warriors cultist rules from the 9th edition Chaos Space Marines codex.
What I wanted: a detachment rule to affect knights and shake up internal balance
What I got: trade a wardog for 3x10 cultists, get some scout-stickying going on, 2cp to respawn a cultist later on for scoring purposes.
If you have, say, 11 wardogs in sacrifice range, they're eating 11d3 (22) and on average cultists fail half the tests, which is flat 3. So another 5-6 fails, call it 15.
You're eating 37 cultists per turn for your buffs. You're eaten your entire detachment rule in 2 turns. Phenomenal.
Do you get an insane buff? Or some milquetoast "other factions have this always" ability?
Yeah no. It might be better than the detachment, but that's because the detachment sucks.
Add a firebrand. Ld6+ with rerolls.
When I saw that the teaser said they were bringing friends along, I was hoping it was referring to Daemon units and they were going to give aura buffs based on the god the Daemons came from (+1 advance and charge in 6 inches of Slaanesh units, +1 A w/ Khorne, -1 to hit ranged w/ Nurgle etc.). I think this detachment is just fine, but considering Shatterstar came out during these releases, this feels kind of lazy and like the executives undersold cultists and their strategy for upping sales is trying to get Knights players to buy 9 boxes of them. No thanks, I'll wait for the codex. I put a lot of work into converting my War Dogs and want to get a lot of games with em anyways.
They can still take demons
@@Zabzim Not my point.
@ well it’s a completely different way to run chaos knights so of course it not going to feel right. But if this detachment is anything like the codex detachments I expect we’ll get more forced on fielding knights rather than just war dog spam.
@@Zabzim im fine with fielding more big knights only problem is they are even squishier in the new detachment... and they still dont hold well vs close combat
@ well knights have a toughness problem in that they’re too tough and that’s the problem. If you think knights are squishy you really need to go play another army they’re not squishy in the slightest, it’s just because they so tough they can’t have good saves and so they feel squishy. If knights were toughness 8/9 they could have a decent save and so wouldn’t feel squishy in combat
This detachment is garbage. This makes the army rule even worse and I'm tired of running allies to make the army good. I want to run knights. This would have been better if they made it work off the wardogs. Like each dog takes a leadership test if they fail they take d3 + 1 mortal but the buff goes off either way. Then people would bring a a good mix of bigs and smalls because the bigs would give off an aura for smalls and smalls could buff the bigs. The cultists won't keep pace with the knights and will be out of range to buff them. No one wanting to play competitive is going to run this. It's still going to be wardog spam and the index detachment
I agree, doing it off of War Dogs would have been better. I do like that they are trying to incentivize running bigger knights, but this detachment reeks of executives trying to offload more cultist models. If they had to do it off of non Knights units, just make it non-Legionaire battleline units instead. People wouldn't run nurglings because you risk just killing all of them on one activation. I'm not buying 8-10 boxes of cultists to make one detachment work when it's not even that much better than the index detachment.
Trash.
Custodes, necrons...omg what a rule omg
C knights...erm yh this is cool ..yh this ok
Cutt the crap this is garbage, I'm not spending even more money and points making my useless over costed knights even more expensive. Then throw my cults away come 11th edition when they are null n void
Utterly disappointed
Edit : if big knights go cheaper in balance update this could be more usable
fully agree
I find this is way more better than people belive. This is straightfoward helping every CK issue. Just adding cultists its enough to give us secondaries, OC, actions and screens all toghether in a way cheaper way than daemons. Everything else is a bonus.
It also helps in reliability, thanks to free sustain/lethal hits on everything we want. Now I can finally roll 6 dices with Karnivore and probably doing between 5 and 6 wounds (standard its 4).
In also gives A LOT of helps again melee armies (just keep your cultists directly back from your stuff. Oppo moves withing 9", 1Cp, cultists move 6" in front. Melee screened.
@Cerve909090 if the big knights come down in cost IL try this detachment out as I have CMS main I e. Cultists ect
Just feels jumping through hoops to get what other armies get for nothing. Eldar re rolls hit n wound. We gotta 50 things to get close
Even if i wanted to play this, i dont have a despoiler or any csm stuff. Im not about to go drop a bunch of money just to play this either. So my knights are gonna stay dusty and im gonna keep playing daemons or deathgaurd. And no I don't have cultists for my dg and really don't care to get any.