I remember seeing this at Electronics Boutique, recognizing the name of the series and asking the cashier if it was any good. He gushes on about it. "If you enjoy RPGs you can stop shopping around this is the game you want" so I bought it. I stayed up until the early morning playing it and I loved it. While laying in bed afterwards I was thinking about how I picked the already made characters, and I wanted to make my own and do something different. So I got out of bed snuck back to the computer, and started making my own characters. My mom found me asleep at the keyboard 😂
During the part where you played the character voices, I said each line without watching, knowing them by heart. I think you captured the essence of this game perfectly. I've played it so many times and it is still one of my favourites to this day. I wish they'd revive this genre in the west but I don't see that happening any time soon. Such a shame, I really love this genre.
It's such an injustice that the IP (and the genre at large) died with Wizardry 8... that's like Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time being the death knell of platformers/action adventure games. It's a diamond in the rough, but with every passing year I appreciate this game more, the more I realize what an isolated experience it is (both figuratively and literally). Makes you sad at all the lost potential, but also cherish it that much more.
My gpa just passed and me and my gma were going through the storage units and we found a sealed copy of this he used to sit with me and tell me all about the first wizardry i think he would have wanted me to have one of the things that gave me and him joy i love you grandpa
Great review! I like how you point out the finer details, like the sound effects, voice acting quality and the likes. Small things like these add up to the perfectly polished feeling of the game and imo are also the reason nobody could come up with a worthy Jagged Alliance successor...
We are in serious need of games. Started playing wiz 8 today and never seen something like it. Really really fun, engineous and pretty all at the same time.
I have always loved the Wizardry series, and I have played all 8 games. In fact, I still keep coming back to the Wizardry 8 game, if nothing else, but to just kill time (lol, and monsters). This was such a great review for the Wizardry game and its genre!!
+44redbeard Thank you! Have you checked out Elminage Gothic or any of the other new Wizardry clones hailing from Japan? They don't really scratch that Wiz8 itch (nothing does! It's so sad that it's such an unique title, but also makes us appreciate it more), but for classic Wizardry formula gameplay they can be quite nice. I have high hopes for Bard's Tale IV.
ChrisP872 Then you've been a fan of the game longer than I have :) Wizardry 8 is one of the first CRPGs I played&that got me into the genre, and it's still one of my favorites in many aspects.
Wizardry 8 was a bit unfinished. They had a very, very hard time finding a publisher for it, and it was the swan song for Sir-Tech. With that said, it had the absolute best character development of any game I have ever played. Complex, with a very steep curve, yet simple enough that it never becomes burdensome. You have so much flexibility in making a successful party. Voice acting is top notch. I like to play hybrids over pure casters or brawlers, and limit myself to 4 characters per party. I do a class switch here and there. My favorite out of the box wacko build is a Dwarf Monk which starts with negative stat points! I Focus on strength and vitality and try to max them first. The Dwarf natural damage resistance plus, monk damage resistance, and then unlocking iron skin leads to a very tanky build. High starting piety means good spell points. It's a slow build, but by mid late game when you have shifted to bringing up speed and dexterity, it kicks ass.
I played wizardry one through three back in the day when they came out. I loved them! And I more recently played wizardry eight a few years ago for the first time. It was daunting because it looks so much more complex. But really once I got into it it was fantastic.
I wonder why this video appeared on my YT main page?:D Anyway, communication skill in Wizardry 8 lowers prices (well, better said it pushes both sale and buy prices towards the base value) and also helps with getting NPCs friendly in case they get angry with you for some reason (for example after pickpocketing them).
+Invest That's awesome :) Though it's not my voice, a guy named Hadriex has usually done the voice overs for me. He's got a let's play channel (also done a couple of reviews), so check him out if you like his voice!
I’m sorry but this is one of the most interesting, well written, and beautifully composed reviews for a game ever! I am a big fan of this game already - I own the huge strategy guide too - and this has me excited to play and beat it finally. Thank you for making my day with your excellent review. You can feel your love and appreciation for this series. 👏🏽 bravo!
Well that sealed the deal. I'm gonna try Labyrinth of Lost Souls. I played Wizardry Online as my first game of the series and fell absolutely in love with it. Sadly the servers went down and no other game can fill that void, not even Black Desert without the perma-death and the constant on-edge feeling. Thanks for sharing :)
Very good Video. Damn, I think i really should try Wizardry out! I miss the old crpg's like Might and Magic IV/V And I hope, in some way this old crpg's get another go. Well...what do you think about Bard's Tale 4? I think it could be a very good c-rpg.
+Tunahead With each passing year, I love this game more and more! I definately suggest giving it a try. I'm really looking forward to Bard's Tale 4 with high expectations, but I haven't followed the development at all. I kind of got burned out by all these kickstarter projects (no money to back up everything etc), I just haven't kept the tabs on them lately.
+90sgamer92 After this Video, i really want to try the Game out. I only need some time. As of know, the most of my freetime is consumed by Might and Magic 4/5 Well, i don't have followed the develepoment either. I just wait untill it's finished, and then buy it. Well, thanks for the answer and the video. I've just subscribed to you and hope you will make more videos like this! :)
Just a heads up - the g in paradigm is silent (it's pronounced like "paradime"). Anyway, only a few minutes into the video but I like the history and comparisons so far, especially showing the influences it had on other games like the Souls series. I got CGW/PC Gamer magazines in the early 00s and Wizardry 8 was one of the games that was always on my radar, especially because it got rave reviews (I got into RPGs mainly because of Diablo and Morrowind, and wanted to try basically anything with similar perspectives, meaning a lot of isometric/eagle eye view games like Baldur's Gate, Divine Divinity, etc, and a lot of stuff like Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, and others). I got Wizardry 6-8 on Steam last year but have yet to delve very far into them.
My favorite Wizardry title is Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land. Game play does not have near the depth of 8 but I loved the atmosphere, music, and combat. As far as I know it was only made for the PS2. A great game. One of these days I'll have to give 8 a try.
Same, I'm playing Forsaken Land on PCSX2 and it's fantastic. This is my first Wizardry game. Maybe I'll try 8 next. I assume Forsaken Land is simplified from the main series, but it's a very well-rounded and polished RPG.
Should I directly play this, or play Wizardry 6/7 as well? I'm mostly interested in Wizardry series as a historical relic and an inspirational piece for several other video games. So, I'm not looking into playing them fully. However if it's absolutely necessary to go through all three Dark Savant games, do tell me so.
Wizardry 7 is a massive game. It will take over a hundred hours before you get to 8 if you're doing 6&7 first, but it'll give you bragging rights. Wizardry 7 is also a significant game for the reasons mentioned in this video, but you don't need to play it to appreciate 8. Like I said, there's pretty much no other game like Wiz8 out there, it's almost alone in its category of 3D, first person, party based dungeon crawlers. Wizardry 1 is also worth checking out. It's surprisingly playable for such an early title, and the foundation it built is used to this day by Japanese developers. Truthfully I've never played it very far myself, but when I've played it, it wasn't much of a culture shock after playing titles like Etrian Odysssey, apart from the sparseness of the graphics.
90sgamer92 Then I think I'll drop Wiz 7 as I'm a little short on time, and I'm only playing to get a "feel" of Wizardry. And I've no problem with 2D or early 3D. I've recently started to enjoy "hard" RPGs like Dark Souls 1 and SMT Strange Journey (DS) and will try Etrian Odyssey my friend has. I've also taken interest in first person dungeon crawlers due to a really nice mobile game called Orcs & Elves (which was designed by John Carmack no less). I'm also a hugely into older JRPGs, and probably the oldest one I've played till near completion was Dragon Warrior IV for NES (Last area has a huge grind, so I couldn't finish it). When I learnt that all of these games had taken great inspiration from DnD and old PC RPGs I was interested in going through their history. Since there are no tabletops in my country, my best option was to try them in game form. For first person dungeon crawler, many people suggested to try Lands of Lore, which is the best entry point into the genre. I played it and really liked it, despite it's age. Wanting to step further, I stumbled upon this video. There were a few games people were always mention, Betrayal at Kondor, Might and Magic, Eye of the Beholder and Wizardry. And they way they all were bragging, these games seemed very intimidating. I've been interested in these games, and always wanted to check them out. I've yet to try the isometric ones. Thanks for your advice.
Hemang Chauhan Hope you'll enjoy exploring the genre as much as I did. Icewind Dale (Isometric), Wizardry 8 and Ultima 4 got me hooked to the genre when I started. U4 was more of a historic relic/learning experience, but the gameplay in Wiz8 and Icewind Dale made me fall in love with CRPGs. They don't really have any relation to JRPGs, but I urge you check out some of the better isometric CRPGs that came after the dungeon crawler era. I made a video on the history of DnD video games, it's quite long, but if you're intrested in the history of the genre, I recommend checking out the Pool of Radiance/Goldbox and Baldur's Gate sections(*). Actually, the goldbox games (and later on, Dark Sun: Shattered Lands) are kind of the halfway point between old dungeon crawlers and isometric RPGs like Fallout. They feature first person dungeon crawling like Wizardry, but the combat is tactical and happens from a top down view. (*)And Planescape: Torment is just must playing for any one who likes a good story/appreciates good writing and unique settings in a video game.
What's your opinion of Pillars of Eternity btw? I personally liked it's merc system because I never needed a story to justify a group of 6 random hunters who so happened to join the same group with their pets, doubling the whole party to 12 party members. But anyhow, until recently, as in this video, I have never heard of this game. Remarkable! Will attempt to buy!
"...silly juxtaposition of gun-wielding space rhinoceros-men..." That sounds like something straight out of the early seasons of the Doctor Who revival. X-DDD On a more serious note, thank you for the retrospective. :) I read a bit about this last installment of Wizardry back in the day, but this is the first time I'm seeing it in action.
+90sgamer92 I have never played with this game, but I think I will thanks to your review...I'm also watching the interview to the developers on the youtube channel Matt Chat, if you dont know it, have a look, it is very informative, indeed...cheers!
90sgamer92Eng Wow I didn't even know about Bards tale 4 kickstarter. I basically just discovered and downloaded Wizardry8 a few hours ago while searching for a Bards Tale type game. I'm liking it. Didn't like Grimrock because it had reflexive combat. I want the old turn-based style of Bards Tale 2. Very nice vid though.
I was wondering if you heard of a game called Grimoire that was on Kickstarter and was or is supposed to be a spiritual successor to the Wizardry series
Just played through it once again, being inspired by watching another guy's Lets Play. Don't know how many times I've been through, probably the best game of all times for me.
+Christian Rogge Same for me here.. just can't stop playing (so I started a LP to put it out there and make it popular even more, help newcomers, grassroots etc., and meet people who like it and still playing it - worked fine :D)
Like you said near the end of the video. That time period was an almost perfect time for rpgs. They were still complex but developers had learned enough to make them playable out of the box without a lot of obtuse rules or requiring you to read the manual for hours. Now it seems like that has been overdone with games holding your hand and simplifying way too much. It would be nice to see more games with complexity in narrative or gameplay options but still having UI/playability simplifications without sacrificing one or the other.
1:26 what is that manga? Also 3:56 feels man, I remember playing Wizardry 8 (was actually my first dungeon crawler) and I've been disappointed ever since because I've never found anything that gives me the same vibes as Wizardry 8. I mean Skyrim is giving me that Morrowind nostalgia at least but... come on, no Wizardry 8 successor? Very sad :( The only other games who have a similar faction system as the late wizardry titles are space simulators like X3 and Elite.
I remember this being released, and thought it looked cool. Unfortunately Morrowind came out shortly afterwards, and that became the game for me. I loved the mix of real RPG mechanics, adventure and lore. I know its not a hardcore RPG, but at least there was no scaling, the bane of Oblivion. Anyway, I really enjoyed this video. Not the game for me, but it's a shame these sort of games died. The PC had so many wonderful genres at one point.
I think most modern gamers would find a text parser very offputting. Still, there is a certain magic to discovering an answer yourself, rather than just clicking on it.
Wiz8 thankfully has a simple storyline, so you can usually fall back on few important terms that'll branch out the conversations. Though in a later area/dungeon, you must answer some riddles in text, which is a lot more challenging (and logical) than the usual "choose from X many different options and load your save untill you get the answer right" you see in other RPGs&adventure games.
But all of that derived from "Rogue" itself (1983) translated into 1st person... a few Rogue predecessors date as far back as 1977 (the game originated at engineering offices with guys who were very bored working there and wanted to test out the capabilities of their computers)
Hello. A hypothetical question somewhere near the comment, but first... ...thank you for reminding me of wanting to play Wizardry 8 when it came out, when I was 12, and didn't have the machine to play it on or money to buy it for, but just read about it in a magazine, the idea/design concept was pretty new to me then (possibly first time I heard about it was from wizardry, I learned about dungeon master and others later). So I tried it now, and... yes, the combat heavyness (combined with difficulty, but maybe I'm just making my party ineffective in trying to make it interesting) you warned about annoys me greatly... But I see the appeal, I understand what you meant and liked even about the combat and movement mechanics... I'll have to try again to get at least to NPC to check out the dialog system by myself. However, it got me thinking about these kinds of games, and how would mine look, if I was to do such genre, and... just out of the top of my head as I started prototyping, I came up with an idea... called along the lines of "Group in the Dark", the "whole party moves with one view" mechanic explained in-theme as "on the beginning, few people who seem to be last survivors somewhere group up, and decide NOT to do the basic mistake of all horror situations - splitting up. So they stay together for the whole game, just changing formations..." And then I thought that's awesome for horror (i thought scifi, on a ship, but that's not so important), and then I thought how much I dislike the D&D system for how it behaves (especially on low levels, but in general as well) and I thought D&D wouldn't be a good fit for a horror-themed game anyway, so I wanted to ask you: do you know about any RPG system that is a good fit, or, that YOU PERSONALLY would consider a good fit for a survival-horror-themed dungeon crawler RPG?
I don't have any experience from p&p RPGs so I can't say, but your idea sounds fascinating. I'd love something like the gameplay Wizardry 8 of combined with horror, scifi (or Lovecraftian stuff, what ever you can come up with!), done in a RPG ruleset that fits the style&medium well (ie none of the annoying D&D stuff you mentioned, something built from the ground up for the game perhaps).
90sgamer92 yes, after failing to find a suitable pre-existing system, that's what I'm doing just now. I'm thinking along the lines of straightforward percentage stacking, even stats, as in "0.5 (50%) dexterity means the average normal strength of character's race", and such, then when shooting a weapon, chance to hit would be along the lines of dex * calmness * handlingOfTheWeapon which might seem complicated, but translates into relatively straightforward verbal explanation: "the more dextrous and calm your character is, and the easier the weapon is to handle, the higher your hit chance" Using percentages and mostly multiplication or division, all the rules could be explained in some way like this, which would make sense even intuitively. also, do you think people who like this genre would play it even on mobile? (assuming none of that "mobile-style design elements" crap would be there, imagine truly just a pure PC-like RPG of this kind, except also running on mobile)
I loved this game... I had the bugged version that made it impossible to get to Ascension Peak... so I was stuck there until the patch... I remember vividly the calls with my friend as we traded hints (instead of studying for exams)... maybe only thing I really dislike is the encounter level scaling.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the level scaling in this game. Do the same enemies gain levels with you , or does the game just replace them with different enemies altogether?
A standard crab becomes a tough crab etc. Basically you get WoW-style upgraded versions of the same enemy with more imposing names, new spells&abilities, more health etc. I think the most infamous example is the rats in the starting area, if I recall, if you don't exit before you hit level 6, they level up and start carrying plague, which will likely ruin you if you can't make it to the nearest town in time to be healed. As far as I recall, even after mobs level scale, there are some low level/original level mob packs mixed in. www.gog.com/forum/wizardry_series/wizardry_8_level_scaling_whats_it_like_does_it_work_or_does_it_ruin_the_game/page1 ^According to that, level scaling stops at certain point (and importantly, not everything scales, so you cant run straight to the final area with level 1 characters)
To add to this: each area will only scale up to a certain point, so going back to the mentioned starting area at a very high level won't make the game spawn level 30 Armageddon Rats of Doom or some other nonsense. (the game can typically be completed around level 25) Generally, areas later in the game scale to a higher max level and the final major area has a whole host of high level monster it could throw at you should you for some reason decide to be much higher level than you need to be to defeat the final boss. I personally don't mind it, as more often than not the new higher level enemies feel different enough from what I might have encountered in a zone at a lower level to not feel like the same thing with higher stats.
Thanks, both of you. I'm level seven now and still haven't left the first dungeon (close to the end, though). I'm totally okay with this system. I just hate it when regular enemies power up as you level - totally ruined Oblivion for me. Nothing shreds immersion like having a pair of little goblins turn your level 50 knight's asshole into bloody mincemeat. As long a there's a genuine reason as to why the bad guys are getting bulkier, then I'm just dandy.
I usually start Wizardry 8 by actually staying in the monastery and grind, haha. Until I reach at least level 10 with all of my characters. Just camp and wait for new monsters to attack you. Good thing is that enemies scale and level with you, so you will face very powerful enemies even in the monastery, where the game starts, and thus easily get tons of experience. Good video, by the way. Never even knew or cared about the importance of the older Wizardry games to be honest. Only ever played Wizardry 8. And the reason for that is the exact one you base your early video on. I just didn't know about Wizardry until a few years ago... no one ever mentions it.
+gerd berd I shall keep that in mind the next time I'll replay it :) I usually don't use mods because I want to get an "authenthic" experience, but at this point I've played Wiz8 so many times that I'm ready to mix it up!
+90sgamer92 There is a savegame from Dot the slayer mod its a lvl 44 Fighter machine www.file-upload.net/download-11286329/Worriorsolo.SAV.html have fun
Considering how old this game is, it makes current Japanese-made dungeon crawlers look outdated. Stuff like Demon Gaze and Etrian Odyssey don't have the audio design this game does. I'm not big on Dungeon Crawlers but if I did play one I would choose Wizardry 8 over anything similar made now. The full 3-d environments, animated portraits for the characters, sound/atmosphere are well done in W8.
Nope! That's the way the game looks. In fact it was criticized for looking outdated when it came out, after all games like Silent Hill 2, Max Payne, ICO, Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3 etc came out in 2001 which took 3D graphics to the next level.
great game but i hated the respawn rate in areas, spend 8 hours of gameplay just on road to first town, i will replay it some day but not today, do you know gates of skeldal?
+Quitarstudent oh ye ans sirtech made really well made games, you can feel the love from it and JA 2 awas ahead of its time imo, sandbox tactical game where you can attack with whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want, you can go straight to meduna right from start
+Quitarstudent I've seen screenshots of it, but never played it. Is it good? And yeah, the respawns can be a drain on your motivation when you play this game. The only flaw it really has imo.
90sgamer92 best tactical turn based game ive ever played, it looks complicated at start but soon you will get into it, being made in 1999 this game features a lot well implemented mechanics, mircomanagement that is nice change of pace when you are not in mission, 10/10 becasue i cant remember single thing i could say against it
When savescumming becomes the primary tactic in high tier play, a common occurrence in Wizardry titles even with auto saves every step taken, you've created a broken system and might as well cut out the middle man. Frequent save points are entirely reasonable in unforgiving games as such. Save scumming, and pretending you didn't, are not skillful or engaging from the point of view of most people. Shocking!
you made me bought Wiz8 and I enjoying it up tow Razik as far as I'm concerned. I wish there was middle market again so it could at least make attempts on overthrowing industry's Titans.
If you love the Wizardry-Series, then you should take a look at the dungeon crawler "Grimoire - Heralds of the winged Exemplar", because it is an absolute old-school crawler of the highest quality. I did a Review of this game .............
I've played Wizardry 8, Avernum, and some others. And it is not called "ge-neforge" lol. "Jeanforge", like the genes in one's cells. The game is about making creatures, hence the name. Avernum is still far better. Avadon also kinda stinks.
I remember playing the demo back in the day, but never bought it. Damn! watching this now reminds me how great sir-tech was with character and npc personality.
I'm sure critics, such as buyers, have something to do with which games and their characteristics are influencial. But influences aren't just about whole popular genres. As any creative force, programmers draw from a library of ideas made by the games they know... and that can be an obscure 30 year old title, or the one that will come out next year.
I take offense at the idea that someone who doesn't enjoy overly complicated RPG mechanics doesn't enjoy RPGs. I enjoy RPGs as a method of putting myself into the game, living in that world and playing a character, not because I want to minmax my stats and get the best weapons and armor, so when game systems get in the way of me feeling like I'm part of that world, it takes me out of it.
Played the first 4 they were great 5 turned me off to the series and online anything, turns me completely off....One and 2 were great ..... Will have to give the others a try... Gonna do the Bards Tale and Ultima?
Then you'll hate pretty much every one of my videos apart from the longplays. That's my weird OCD, I can't stand black stripes at the side of the video.
I never finished it. Sounds like the puzzles get painfully obtuse towards the end too. Though that never hurt the earlier Wizardry games' popularity ;)
I remember seeing this at Electronics Boutique, recognizing the name of the series and asking the cashier if it was any good. He gushes on about it. "If you enjoy RPGs you can stop shopping around this is the game you want" so I bought it. I stayed up until the early morning playing it and I loved it.
While laying in bed afterwards I was thinking about how I picked the already made characters, and I wanted to make my own and do something different. So I got out of bed snuck back to the computer, and started making my own characters. My mom found me asleep at the keyboard 😂
This review is fantastic. I've never played Wizardry 8, but consider me very interested in it now. I'll definitely have to give it a shot.
During the part where you played the character voices, I said each line without watching, knowing them by heart. I think you captured the essence of this game perfectly. I've played it so many times and it is still one of my favourites to this day. I wish they'd revive this genre in the west but I don't see that happening any time soon. Such a shame, I really love this genre.
It's such an injustice that the IP (and the genre at large) died with Wizardry 8... that's like Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time being the death knell of platformers/action adventure games. It's a diamond in the rough, but with every passing year I appreciate this game more, the more I realize what an isolated experience it is (both figuratively and literally). Makes you sad at all the lost potential, but also cherish it that much more.
Agreed wholeheartedly. This kind of a game and this kind of a review are rare!
Great comprehensive review!
I've been playing this game for over 10 years. Excellent review.
My gpa just passed and me and my gma were going through the storage units and we found a sealed copy of this he used to sit with me and tell me all about the first wizardry i think he would have wanted me to have one of the things that gave me and him joy i love you grandpa
Great review!
I like how you point out the finer details, like the sound effects, voice acting quality and the likes. Small things like these add up to the perfectly polished feeling of the game and imo are also the reason nobody could come up with a worthy Jagged Alliance successor...
We are in serious need of games. Started playing wiz 8 today and never seen something like it. Really really fun, engineous and pretty all at the same time.
This is so sad, I was hoping there was something like it, it's really really amazing I played it...
_'end of "an Era" games'_ -the best games.
The first opening screen "SIRTECH" is really cool. Love it!
I have always loved the Wizardry series, and I have played all 8 games. In fact, I still keep coming back to the Wizardry 8 game, if nothing else, but to just kill time (lol, and monsters). This was such a great review for the Wizardry game and its genre!!
+44redbeard
Thank you! Have you checked out Elminage Gothic or any of the other new Wizardry clones hailing from Japan? They don't really scratch that Wiz8 itch (nothing does! It's so sad that it's such an unique title, but also makes us appreciate it more), but for classic Wizardry formula gameplay they can be quite nice. I have high hopes for Bard's Tale IV.
Good review, of an outstanding classic. Lets hope the coming Bards Tale is a true back to the roots project.
Really good review.
did you say "Paradiggem??"
cursive Valkyr Hahaha
I was just going to say something about that. He said it how it looks spelled.
Made the review even better in my opinion.
Leave him alone. He’s just a chameleon.
4 years later... he did. (makes me wonder which words I mispronounce hah)
Wizardry 8 is a great game. I remember buying it at Best Buy with my girlfriend I had met recently and is my wife now.
ChrisP872
Then you've been a fan of the game longer than I have :) Wizardry 8 is one of the first CRPGs I played&that got me into the genre, and it's still one of my favorites in many aspects.
Wizardry 8 was a bit unfinished. They had a very, very hard time finding a publisher for it, and it was the swan song for Sir-Tech. With that said, it had the absolute best character development of any game I have ever played. Complex, with a very steep curve, yet simple enough that it never becomes burdensome. You have so much flexibility in making a successful party. Voice acting is top notch. I like to play hybrids over pure casters or brawlers, and limit myself to 4 characters per party. I do a class switch here and there. My favorite out of the box wacko build is a Dwarf Monk which starts with negative stat points! I Focus on strength and vitality and try to max them first. The Dwarf natural damage resistance plus, monk damage resistance, and then unlocking iron skin leads to a very tanky build. High starting piety means good spell points. It's a slow build, but by mid late game when you have shifted to bringing up speed and dexterity, it kicks ass.
Your comment makes me want to replay the game! :) Such a fine game, and a swansong for a genre as you put it.
I don't know why, but I've rewatched this video like 6 times.
Great Video as always.
Fantastic review!
I played wizardry one through three back in the day when they came out. I loved them! And I more recently played wizardry eight a few years ago for the first time. It was daunting because it looks so much more complex. But really once I got into it it was fantastic.
I wonder why this video appeared on my YT main page?:D
Anyway, communication skill in Wizardry 8 lowers prices (well, better said it pushes both sale and buy prices towards the base value) and also helps with getting NPCs friendly in case they get angry with you for some reason (for example after pickpocketing them).
Just started Wizardry VI because of this video. Despite the clunky interface and the lack of automap (nothing beats graph paper), I'm having a blast!
+Empowerless and it will get even better with wiz7. enjoy
Still playing the series to this day?
man, i love your review, this game is so underrated :(
I don't see myself playing this game but this video was so entertaining! Also I like to listen to your voice.
+Invest
That's awesome :) Though it's not my voice, a guy named Hadriex has usually done the voice overs for me. He's got a let's play channel (also done a couple of reviews), so check him out if you like his voice!
+90sgamer92 Haha I knew I recognized his voice from the Darklands review
I’m sorry but this is one of the most interesting, well written, and beautifully composed reviews for a game ever! I am a big fan of this game already - I own the huge strategy guide too - and this has me excited to play and beat it finally. Thank you for making my day with your excellent review. You can feel your love and appreciation for this series. 👏🏽 bravo!
Excellent review. Definitely a favourite game. Cheers from NZ.
1:35 was a tsr gold box game. Looked like Champions of Krynn or Death Knights of Krynn.
Well that sealed the deal. I'm gonna try Labyrinth of Lost Souls. I played Wizardry Online as my first game of the series and fell absolutely in love with it. Sadly the servers went down and no other game can fill that void, not even Black Desert without the perma-death and the constant on-edge feeling. Thanks for sharing :)
Awesome review! I never played any games in this type of format before, but I might give this one a try it looks very cool.
+Kristian Atanasov
Thanks man, I wholeheartedly recommend it! It's one of the games that got me into CRPGs.
What is the name of the track/song playing at the end...? It was excellent :-)
Very good Video.
Damn, I think i really should try Wizardry out!
I miss the old crpg's like Might and Magic IV/V
And I hope, in some way this old crpg's get another go.
Well...what do you think about Bard's Tale 4? I think it could be a very good c-rpg.
+Tunahead
With each passing year, I love this game more and more! I definately suggest giving it a try.
I'm really looking forward to Bard's Tale 4 with high expectations, but I haven't followed the development at all. I kind of got burned out by all these kickstarter projects (no money to back up everything etc), I just haven't kept the tabs on them lately.
+90sgamer92 After this Video, i really want to try the Game out.
I only need some time. As of know, the most of my freetime is consumed by Might and Magic 4/5
Well, i don't have followed the develepoment either. I just wait untill it's finished, and then buy it.
Well, thanks for the answer and the video. I've just subscribed to you and hope you will make more videos like this! :)
If you want a more modern Wizardry-like title, check out Frayed Knights. It's not a Wizardry clone, but it's similar.
Looks a bit too silly and indie for my tastes, but I guess if it has good party building I can give it a shot some time
i still return to this game every few years, absolutely love it. just a pity some of the content was never finished :(
Gaming journalists wouldn't know a good, influential and critical franchise if their lives depended on it.
They're too busy finding the next shitty female indie developer to have sex with and worshiping advertisers to care about game quality.
@@Mutiny960 Yup, and defending said game dev at all costs.
Just a heads up - the g in paradigm is silent (it's pronounced like "paradime"). Anyway, only a few minutes into the video but I like the history and comparisons so far, especially showing the influences it had on other games like the Souls series. I got CGW/PC Gamer magazines in the early 00s and Wizardry 8 was one of the games that was always on my radar, especially because it got rave reviews (I got into RPGs mainly because of Diablo and Morrowind, and wanted to try basically anything with similar perspectives, meaning a lot of isometric/eagle eye view games like Baldur's Gate, Divine Divinity, etc, and a lot of stuff like Wizardry 8, Arx Fatalis, and others). I got Wizardry 6-8 on Steam last year but have yet to delve very far into them.
I really loved this game, I played and finished it very recently, and I think it was excellent.
My favorite Wizardry title is Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land. Game play does not have near the depth of 8 but I loved the atmosphere, music, and combat. As far as I know it was only made for the PS2. A great game. One of these days I'll have to give 8 a try.
I agree, I am playing through Tale of the Forsaken Land right now. It is really enjoyable.
Same, I'm playing Forsaken Land on PCSX2 and it's fantastic. This is my first Wizardry game. Maybe I'll try 8 next. I assume Forsaken Land is simplified from the main series, but it's a very well-rounded and polished RPG.
Should I directly play this, or play Wizardry 6/7 as well?
I'm mostly interested in Wizardry series as a historical relic and an inspirational piece for several other video games. So, I'm not looking into playing them fully.
However if it's absolutely necessary to go through all three Dark Savant games, do tell me so.
Wizardry 7 is a massive game. It will take over a hundred hours before you get to 8 if you're doing 6&7 first, but it'll give you bragging rights. Wizardry 7 is also a significant game for the reasons mentioned in this video, but you don't need to play it to appreciate 8. Like I said, there's pretty much no other game like Wiz8 out there, it's almost alone in its category of 3D, first person, party based dungeon crawlers.
Wizardry 1 is also worth checking out. It's surprisingly playable for such an early title, and the foundation it built is used to this day by Japanese developers. Truthfully I've never played it very far myself, but when I've played it, it wasn't much of a culture shock after playing titles like Etrian Odysssey, apart from the sparseness of the graphics.
90sgamer92 Then I think I'll drop Wiz 7 as I'm a little short on time, and I'm only playing to get a "feel" of Wizardry. And I've no problem with 2D or early 3D.
I've recently started to enjoy "hard" RPGs like Dark Souls 1 and SMT Strange Journey (DS) and will try Etrian Odyssey my friend has. I've also taken interest in first person dungeon crawlers due to a really nice mobile game called Orcs & Elves (which was designed by John Carmack no less). I'm also a hugely into older JRPGs, and probably the oldest one I've played till near completion was Dragon Warrior IV for NES (Last area has a huge grind, so I couldn't finish it).
When I learnt that all of these games had taken great inspiration from DnD and old PC RPGs I was interested in going through their history. Since there are no tabletops in my country, my best option was to try them in game form. For first person dungeon crawler, many people suggested to try Lands of Lore, which is the best entry point into the genre. I played it and really liked it, despite it's age. Wanting to step further, I stumbled upon this video.
There were a few games people were always mention, Betrayal at Kondor, Might and Magic, Eye of the Beholder and Wizardry. And they way they all were bragging, these games seemed very intimidating. I've been interested in these games, and always wanted to check them out. I've yet to try the isometric ones.
Thanks for your advice.
Hemang Chauhan
Hope you'll enjoy exploring the genre as much as I did. Icewind Dale (Isometric), Wizardry 8 and Ultima 4 got me hooked to the genre when I started. U4 was more of a historic relic/learning experience, but the gameplay in Wiz8 and Icewind Dale made me fall in love with CRPGs.
They don't really have any relation to JRPGs, but I urge you check out some of the better isometric CRPGs that came after the dungeon crawler era. I made a video on the history of DnD video games, it's quite long, but if you're intrested in the history of the genre, I recommend checking out the Pool of Radiance/Goldbox and Baldur's Gate sections(*). Actually, the goldbox games (and later on, Dark Sun: Shattered Lands) are kind of the halfway point between old dungeon crawlers and isometric RPGs like Fallout. They feature first person dungeon crawling like Wizardry, but the combat is tactical and happens from a top down view.
(*)And Planescape: Torment is just must playing for any one who likes a good story/appreciates good writing and unique settings in a video game.
90sgamer92 I'm in the process of watching that video. Really well made.
Again, thank you for your suggestions
What's your opinion of Pillars of Eternity btw? I personally liked it's merc system because I never needed a story to justify a group of 6 random hunters who so happened to join the same group with their pets, doubling the whole party to 12 party members.
But anyhow, until recently, as in this video, I have never heard of this game. Remarkable! Will attempt to buy!
A Better Tomorrow Not anywhere near as engaging imo.
"...silly juxtaposition of gun-wielding space rhinoceros-men..." That sounds like something straight out of the early seasons of the Doctor Who revival. X-DDD
On a more serious note, thank you for the retrospective. :) I read a bit about this last installment of Wizardry back in the day, but this is the first time I'm seeing it in action.
I recommend giving it a try if that description strikes your fancy! One of my fav. RPGs :)
Communication affects buy and sell price. In a party of many mages, it's super valuable
very interesting...thank you.
I'm glad you found it interesting, it's one of my favorite games!
+90sgamer92 I have never played with this game, but I think I will thanks to your review...I'm also watching the interview to the developers on the youtube channel Matt Chat, if you dont know it, have a look, it is very informative, indeed...cheers!
Very good review of one of the best games ever.
Thanks for the compliment, lets hope Bard's Tale 4 turns out good! This games need a proper succesor. Or even a game that reaches its level.
90sgamer92Eng Wow I didn't even know about Bards tale 4 kickstarter. I basically just discovered and downloaded Wizardry8 a few hours ago while searching for a Bards Tale type game. I'm liking it. Didn't like Grimrock because it had reflexive combat. I want the old turn-based style of Bards Tale 2. Very nice vid though.
I played so many hours on BT 3...My Archmage could do anything. MAMA NILA NUKE I think he was level 227 when I quit when I was 14
I was wondering if you heard of a game called Grimoire that was on Kickstarter and was or is supposed to be a spiritual successor to the Wizardry series
Just played through it once again, being inspired by watching another guy's Lets Play. Don't know how many times I've been through, probably the best game of all times for me.
+Christian Rogge Same for me here.. just can't stop playing (so I started a LP to put it out there and make it popular even more, help newcomers, grassroots etc., and meet people who like it and still playing it - worked fine :D)
Christian Rogge Agree!
Like you said near the end of the video. That time period was an almost perfect time for rpgs. They were still complex but developers had learned enough to make them playable out of the box without a lot of obtuse rules or requiring you to read the manual for hours.
Now it seems like that has been overdone with games holding your hand and simplifying way too much. It would be nice to see more games with complexity in narrative or gameplay options but still having UI/playability simplifications without sacrificing one or the other.
I just reinstalled Wiz8 a few days back and see you can also buy it from gog now too.
Great review also i think Bards Tale 4 has the potential to be the next game similar to Wizardry 8 and games like it
it seems interesting
Where did your History of DND Games go?! It was legitimately one of the best vids on RUclips for me.
1:26 what is that manga?
Also 3:56 feels man, I remember playing Wizardry 8 (was actually my first dungeon crawler) and I've been disappointed ever since because I've never found anything that gives me the same vibes as Wizardry 8. I mean Skyrim is giving me that Morrowind nostalgia at least but... come on, no Wizardry 8 successor? Very sad :(
The only other games who have a similar faction system as the late wizardry titles are space simulators like X3 and Elite.
I remember this being released, and thought it looked cool. Unfortunately Morrowind came out shortly afterwards, and that became the game for me. I loved the mix of real RPG mechanics, adventure and lore. I know its not a hardcore RPG, but at least there was no scaling, the bane of Oblivion.
Anyway, I really enjoyed this video. Not the game for me, but it's a shame these sort of games died. The PC had so many wonderful genres at one point.
18:56 thats hallarious! gj RFS81
I think most modern gamers would find a text parser very offputting. Still, there is a certain magic to discovering an answer yourself, rather than just clicking on it.
Wiz8 thankfully has a simple storyline, so you can usually fall back on few important terms that'll branch out the conversations. Though in a later area/dungeon, you must answer some riddles in text, which is a lot more challenging (and logical) than the usual "choose from X many different options and load your save untill you get the answer right" you see in other RPGs&adventure games.
Personally I am not jarred by the scifi elements at all. I'd like to see more stuff like this and phantasy star -ish stuff.
But all of that derived from "Rogue" itself (1983) translated into 1st person... a few Rogue predecessors date as far back as 1977 (the game originated at engineering offices with guys who were very bored working there and wanted to test out the capabilities of their computers)
Hello. A hypothetical question somewhere near the comment, but first...
...thank you for reminding me of wanting to play Wizardry 8 when it came out, when I was 12, and didn't have the machine to play it on or money to buy it for, but just read about it in a magazine, the idea/design concept was pretty new to me then (possibly first time I heard about it was from wizardry, I learned about dungeon master and others later).
So I tried it now, and... yes, the combat heavyness (combined with difficulty, but maybe I'm just making my party ineffective in trying to make it interesting) you warned about annoys me greatly... But I see the appeal, I understand what you meant and liked even about the combat and movement mechanics...
I'll have to try again to get at least to NPC to check out the dialog system by myself.
However, it got me thinking about these kinds of games, and how would mine look, if I was to do such genre, and... just out of the top of my head as I started prototyping, I came up with an idea... called along the lines of "Group in the Dark", the "whole party moves with one view" mechanic explained in-theme as "on the beginning, few people who seem to be last survivors somewhere group up, and decide NOT to do the basic mistake of all horror situations - splitting up. So they stay together for the whole game, just changing formations..."
And then I thought that's awesome for horror (i thought scifi, on a ship, but that's not so important), and then I thought how much I dislike the D&D system for how it behaves (especially on low levels, but in general as well) and I thought D&D wouldn't be a good fit for a horror-themed game anyway, so I wanted to ask you: do you know about any RPG system that is a good fit, or, that YOU PERSONALLY would consider a good fit for a survival-horror-themed dungeon crawler RPG?
I don't have any experience from p&p RPGs so I can't say, but your idea sounds fascinating. I'd love something like the gameplay Wizardry 8 of combined with horror, scifi (or Lovecraftian stuff, what ever you can come up with!), done in a RPG ruleset that fits the style&medium well (ie none of the annoying D&D stuff you mentioned, something built from the ground up for the game perhaps).
90sgamer92 yes, after failing to find a suitable pre-existing system, that's what I'm doing just now. I'm thinking along the lines of straightforward percentage stacking, even stats, as in "0.5 (50%) dexterity means the average normal strength of character's race", and such, then when shooting a weapon, chance to hit would be along the lines of
dex * calmness * handlingOfTheWeapon
which might seem complicated, but translates into relatively straightforward verbal explanation:
"the more dextrous and calm your character is, and the easier the weapon is to handle, the higher your hit chance"
Using percentages and mostly multiplication or division, all the rules could be explained in some way like this, which would make sense even intuitively.
also, do you think people who like this genre would play it even on mobile?
(assuming none of that "mobile-style design elements" crap would be there, imagine truly just a pure PC-like RPG of this kind, except also running on mobile)
Maybe the Vampire:The Masquarade system would work?
I loved this game... I had the bugged version that made it impossible to get to Ascension Peak... so I was stuck there until the patch... I remember vividly the calls with my friend as we traded hints (instead of studying for exams)... maybe only thing I really dislike is the encounter level scaling.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the level scaling in this game. Do the same enemies gain levels with you , or does the game just replace them with different enemies altogether?
A standard crab becomes a tough crab etc. Basically you get WoW-style upgraded versions of the same enemy with more imposing names, new spells&abilities, more health etc. I think the most infamous example is the rats in the starting area, if I recall, if you don't exit before you hit level 6, they level up and start carrying plague, which will likely ruin you if you can't make it to the nearest town in time to be healed.
As far as I recall, even after mobs level scale, there are some low level/original level mob packs mixed in.
www.gog.com/forum/wizardry_series/wizardry_8_level_scaling_whats_it_like_does_it_work_or_does_it_ruin_the_game/page1
^According to that, level scaling stops at certain point (and importantly, not everything scales, so you cant run straight to the final area with level 1 characters)
To add to this: each area will only scale up to a certain point, so going back to the mentioned starting area at a very high level won't make the game spawn level 30 Armageddon Rats of Doom or some other nonsense. (the game can typically be completed around level 25)
Generally, areas later in the game scale to a higher max level and the final major area has a whole host of high level monster it could throw at you should you for some reason decide to be much higher level than you need to be to defeat the final boss.
I personally don't mind it, as more often than not the new higher level enemies feel different enough from what I might have encountered in a zone at a lower level to not feel like the same thing with higher stats.
Thanks, both of you. I'm level seven now and still haven't left the first dungeon (close to the end, though). I'm totally okay with this system. I just hate it when regular enemies power up as you level - totally ruined Oblivion for me. Nothing shreds immersion like having a pair of little goblins turn your level 50 knight's asshole into bloody mincemeat. As long a there's a genuine reason as to why the bad guys are getting bulkier, then I'm just dandy.
What's a Paladin?
a holy knight with holy magic
+Gord Lord It's a reference to one of the worst moments in ultima 9
+NuclearUnicorn7 oh nevermind i thought he was serious lol
+NuclearUnicorn7 yeah i saw the video, it was pretty funny
I clapped because I knew what you meant.
I usually start Wizardry 8 by actually staying in the monastery and grind, haha. Until I reach at least level 10 with all of my characters. Just camp and wait for new monsters to attack you. Good thing is that enemies scale and level with you, so you will face very powerful enemies even in the monastery, where the game starts, and thus easily get tons of experience.
Good video, by the way. Never even knew or cared about the importance of the older Wizardry games to be honest. Only ever played Wizardry 8. And the reason for that is the exact one you base your early video on. I just didn't know about Wizardry until a few years ago... no one ever mentions it.
"dooz ex" "paradijim shift"
You're a funny guy. I like you.
+PK Cheap
+Hadriex
Lol that Deus Ex pronounciation is going to haunt us till the end of times :)
It is still hauting you.
Still playing Wizardry 8 in 2016 i would say im pro^^
I recommend the mods Reforged, Dot the Slayer and Flamestrike with solo character.
+gerd berd
I shall keep that in mind the next time I'll replay it :) I usually don't use mods because I want to get an "authenthic" experience, but at this point I've played Wiz8 so many times that I'm ready to mix it up!
+90sgamer92 There is a savegame from Dot the slayer mod its a lvl 44 Fighter machine
www.file-upload.net/download-11286329/Worriorsolo.SAV.html
have fun
gerd berd
Thanks. Have you attempted a solo run as a faerie ninja (or was it monks who got the race specific OP staff)?
90sgamer92
Oh no i choosed a fighter he hits so hard with the titan sword. Often 1 round and the enemies lie in the dirt.
so glad CRPG's are back again.
Considering how old this game is, it makes current Japanese-made dungeon crawlers look outdated. Stuff like Demon Gaze and Etrian Odyssey don't have the audio design this game does. I'm not big on Dungeon Crawlers but if I did play one I would choose Wizardry 8 over anything similar made now.
The full 3-d environments, animated portraits for the characters, sound/atmosphere are well done in W8.
I just got this game. I had heard about this series but never really knew what it was. I had no idea it was party based open worlds.
Are u using some graphics mod? Game seems quite well polished for a 2001 game o.O
Nope! That's the way the game looks. In fact it was criticized for looking outdated when it came out, after all games like Silent Hill 2, Max Payne, ICO, Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3 etc came out in 2001 which took 3D graphics to the next level.
hello what music is at 10:20 ?
+Saemon Havarian
Arnika theme
Well, looks like I’m gonna have to look for this classic….
great game but i hated the respawn rate in areas, spend 8 hours of gameplay just on road to first town, i will replay it some day but not today, do you know gates of skeldal?
+Quitarstudent oh ye ans sirtech made really well made games, you can feel the love from it and JA 2 awas ahead of its time imo, sandbox tactical game where you can attack with whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want, you can go straight to meduna right from start
+Quitarstudent
I've seen screenshots of it, but never played it. Is it good?
And yeah, the respawns can be a drain on your motivation when you play this game. The only flaw it really has imo.
90sgamer92 best tactical turn based game ive ever played, it looks complicated at start but soon you will get into it, being made in 1999 this game features a lot well implemented mechanics, mircomanagement that is nice change of pace when you are not in mission, 10/10 becasue i cant remember single thing i could say against it
brilliant
14:03 Oh no it's Sonic Boom!
Yes, yes, yes, I love them both W8 and DaS!
I want to try this game but it just seems kinda overwhelming
When savescumming becomes the primary tactic in high tier play, a common occurrence in Wizardry titles even with auto saves every step taken, you've created a broken system and might as well cut out the middle man. Frequent save points are entirely reasonable in unforgiving games as such. Save scumming, and pretending you didn't, are not skillful or engaging from the point of view of most people. Shocking!
you made me bought Wiz8 and I enjoying it up tow Razik as far as I'm concerned. I wish there was middle market again so it could at least make attempts on overthrowing industry's Titans.
If you love the Wizardry-Series, then you should take a look at the dungeon crawler "Grimoire - Heralds of the winged Exemplar", because it is an absolute old-school crawler of the highest quality. I did a Review of this game .............
I liked the lizards name "Lisko"
You Finnish by any chance?
d&d should get all the credit tho
True. I made a long ass video on the subject, if you're intrested.
I've played Wizardry 8, Avernum, and some others. And it is not called "ge-neforge" lol. "Jeanforge", like the genes in one's cells. The game is about making creatures, hence the name. Avernum is still far better. Avadon also kinda stinks.
I so wanna meet Robert and/or Andrew, I wanna ask them so many questions
is it impossible to complete some quests without having played pasts wizardry games?
The Logical Choice No. You miss one example of free XP, but besides that, all it affects is your starting point.
I remember playing the demo back in the day, but never bought it. Damn! watching this now reminds me how great sir-tech was with character and npc personality.
This game have all i search in a rpg: sci-fi, party, interattivity and complexity. I buy it from gog
Enjoy!
í need a game like this in this years xd
I'm sure critics, such as buyers, have something to do with which games and their characteristics are influencial.
But influences aren't just about whole popular genres.
As any creative force, programmers draw from a library of ideas made by the games they know... and that can be an obscure 30 year old title, or the one that will come out next year.
The soul series are treasures!!!
Crusaders of the Dark Savant was hard AF. I dont know how many times I had to restart due to being TPKed in an early battle
excellent game...best RPG I ever played
4:17 - It is pronounced "para-dime.""
I take offense at the idea that someone who doesn't enjoy overly complicated RPG mechanics doesn't enjoy RPGs. I enjoy RPGs as a method of putting myself into the game, living in that world and playing a character, not because I want to minmax my stats and get the best weapons and armor, so when game systems get in the way of me feeling like I'm part of that world, it takes me out of it.
Wizardry 8 seems like the tabletop rpg ROLEMASTER.
If you want to relate Dark Souls to Wizardry, you should first look towards FromSoftware's older King's Field series.
Played the first 4 they were great 5 turned me off to the series and online anything, turns me completely off....One and 2 were great .....
Will have to give the others a try... Gonna do the Bards Tale and Ultima?
Wizardry has 2 ps3 games aswell ( 1 JP only)
I love videos about classic games, but HATE watching anything in an artificially stretched aspect ratio.
Then you'll hate pretty much every one of my videos apart from the longplays. That's my weird OCD, I can't stand black stripes at the side of the video.
You could just put an overlay appropriate to the game in the black space, since that wouldn't ruin the footage.
I hear you brother! But this for some reason looked fairly decent.
I didn't notice anything
What about Legend of Grimrock in 2012? I guess it wasn't turn-based...
Yeah, that tile dance gets old really fast.
I never finished it. Sounds like the puzzles get painfully obtuse towards the end too. Though that never hurt the earlier Wizardry games' popularity ;)
+90sgamer92 i enjoyed it for what it was and it feels like a modern dnd dungeon crawler
You sound like yugi from yugioh
awsome games, great memories.
Nice
I mean, let's not kid ourselves. Wizardry 1 is one of THE most important games ever. Wizardry then sorted costed until 6-8.
AFANASIEWICH DEMON ZAYTSEW WIZARDRY 8 COMPLETE SOUNDTRACK