Just that you understand how rare this run was: Monastery: About 1 in 30 attempts, I get a similarly clear path. My fastest times during the attempts were about 15 seconds faster, but that requires incredibly lucky spawns and monster movement (I'd say that in about 1 in 200 attempts I could level up below the 3 minutes mark, about 10 seconds faster than in this one). An average successful Monastery run is about 20 seconds slower than this. Arnika road: No spawns in the path are rare-ish but it happens. Arnika road is usualy not so bad, about 45% to get at most one group that requires a warp skip, about 45% to get several groups in the way, about 10% to get an empty-like one (either empty or with melee spawns you can just run around with minimal time loss). Actually a shame I can't showcase any Arnika road skips in this video, it wouldn't cost much time. Still, such good Arnika road after a great Monastery is obviously very rare. Swamp: About 4 out of 5 attempts, it works just like in the video and all the spawns can be easily avoided. Still, I have had several very promising runs (including some of the under-3-minute Monasteries) killed by random BS like unicorns directly in the way. Marten's Bluff: Is mostly OK, but has several dangers. First, if any enemy gets killed by the rapax trap, the game crashes (provided that you "tag" the rapax, which I have to do for the extra XP). Second, during the last visit in order to move towards Bayjin, random spawns can block the way - this can be sometimes rremedied by combat move, thus me saving right before that, but sometimes it is just game over. Overall, I'd say once again 4 out of 5 attempts work out. Lower Marten's Bluff: Empty path occurs in about 1 in 5 attempts and saves about 12 seconds. Usually it's Apuses in the way which is OK and can be dealt with through resting, but some spawns are pretty much game over as they will often block the path during the second visit. There is actually an alternative approach to this map which is even faster than this as well, but sadly it involves too many additional warps which inevitably causes a crash later on, at least on my PC. Arnika-Trynton road: Usually empty or with harmless melees, just like in the video (let's say 4 out of 5 again), but of course it is great to get it empty after such an amazing start. I have had promising runs fail on this map before because I kept getting long range enemies several times in a row... Arnika: 9 times out of 10 no problem, just like here, except Urq's bomb usualy works and doesn't backfire^^. Sometimes, orbs spawn at the tower that are fast enough to block the way. Other maps are usually without dangers. The Sea caves are actually usually better, as the 3 seconds nap after entering tends to get rid of the ghosts. This pretty much costed me the sub 26 mark, but to be honest, this also goes on me because I was overly careful towards the end to not screw up. Ascension peak can have some troll spawns which are large enough to block the path completely, but the chance is heavily reduced by entering the map without (low level) Vi in the party, which is what I do. Anyways, thanks for watching, see you next time! :)
@@Aaabbbcccdddeee1234 Hi, yes, when loading a save, your current party can still move a bit. And if you use this small amount of time to enter another map, then the game gets a bit lost. It will only load the map coordinates from the save file but you continue to play with your current party. So if you manage to create a save file on any map at the right coordinates, you can use those coordinates to teleport around, even on different maps. Not on all maps can you access all the coordinates you need though, so you cannot teleport everywhere at will, and some running around is still required.
I have an idea for a new route with significant changes. For this route, you only need to level up one alchemist. That may mean higher level spawns on Arnika Road, but you don't fight them anymore. You won't need the extra combat experience, but you still need to kill off your level one teammates eventually if you don't want to get hit with bad spawns on Ascension Peak. You need the coordinates (4,99,2) in Marten's Bluff, which is just south of where you teleport in from UBC. If the spawns to the south are a problem, remember that you can warp in combat. So, you can just save the coordinates where you enter the map. Then, when you need to warp, you can load back here, and do a combat run to the coordinates, and then load the targeted transition(you will only use these coordinates once.) I'll call these coordinates "q". Grab most of the coordinates that you need in the swamp, except for "bv" and the Savant. You can return to get those later after you have portal spells, so you don't have to run to the exit after talking to the Savant. You can even teleport away from the Savant in mid-sentence, and the Don will still get the Astral. You just need to start the speech. You don't need the fake astral. You also don't need to visit Crock at all in this route. Now warp inside the fort, grab the wires and the arm, and go down the elevator. Save the coordinates near Zant, but don't talk to him. Run to the teleporter, and on to Arnika. When you get to Arnika, use the "q" coordinates to warp inside the Mook building. It should place you right on the elevator to Urq. You don't even fall. Hire Urq, grab the orb, and warp to the center fountain. By the way, you do the same number of fountain warps in this route, as we'll skip one later. You don't need to pick up Vi, because you aren't rescuing her. Just ignore the crash site. Head south from the fountain to get the Don coordinates and exit Arnika. Return to Zant through the Trang hut, and hand him the flag, the orb, and the ship coordinates. This should get Urq to level 11. Run to the teleporter, and drain Urq's stamina. Save Urq's portal at the teleporter and drag him into the Umpani camp. Warp through the obstacle course, and then talk to Kunar to get his keycard. Now talk to Balbrak to turn in the arm and the keycard. This should get your alchemist to level 11, so you have your second portal. Don't forget to return to the Swamp. Since you're relying on Urq for one of the portals, you need to get him into Bayjin. Since you've already drained his stamina to get into UBC, you just need to keep his stamina down, and not let it recover until you need him. That means you can't use fake combat rounds or camping to recover stamina during this portion of the game. You do start with a couple of stamina potions, and your alchemist can cast stamina on himself. He won't need earth magic for anything. You can use Urq to freeze the swamp, and still take him with you into Bayjin by warping. It's probably impossible to manage Urq's stamina after Bayjin, because you have to camp in the sea caves. To get Urq into Ascension Peak, use the calling/portal technique.(Run to the zone, and dismiss him when he complains. Line up quotes and click on him. Run into the peak, set your portal there, and run back before the dialogue starts so you can recruit him. Teleport him back in.) Now save the game at the transition back out. To freeze the staircase path, you'll actually use Urq. First, warp the party to the beginning of the staircase path, and have your alchemist save his portal there. Next, return to Urq's portal. Now line up some quotes, dismiss Urq, teleport back to the peak, and start combat before he leaves. Since the dismissal command was given back in LMB, he won't know he's on the Peak. The Raven quest takes a minute. Rescuing Vi takes another minute. Leveling up another alchemist takes 40 seconds. This route avoids all of that. There are some other minor efficiencies, like warping directly into the Mook building instead of running to it and talking to the hologram. Avoiding the rest at the MB crusher hopefully eliminates the problems you've been having getting back into the swamp for Bayjin. Judging by a previous video, it took bit less than a minute to return to UBC and turn in the arm, including some time spent running down Urq's stamina, and drinking a potion. Now, this didn't include talking to Kunar, but the majority of this time was spent simply getting to the main barracks area. I think this route could be over a minute faster, overall.
You have some great ideas in there! I actually spent like an hour trying to find out a way to get out of the Mook building if I warp right in, because I had a strat that could use it, but it didn't work out so I let it go. Later on, I discovered the death warp to Arnika, but completely forgot that I could use it for exactly that purpose :D Anyways, great find with the dismissal before porting in, that sounds increbibly useful no matter what. So, what you say is to skip Vi and raven rapax (thanks for pointing out that you can skip it at all) and get it from UBC instead. I think that UBC might be faster than raven rapax alone, considering it requires talking to Crock first, not mentioning the fact that both the swamp run as well as tagging the raven can kill the run on the spot. Also, not resting on the Marten's Bluff map will only improve the chances of not encountering anyone later on.
@@biogoo How did you figure out the warping thing anyway? This is a shock to me, I subscribed to you because of the runs two years back, and now I get this craziness in my subscription feed!
@@copper4936 Haha, welcome to the next generation of Wizardry 8 speedrunning :D The warp was discovered by "Orachin" from buka(dot)ru who told me about it. What happened next was the search for optimal save spots to get the most out of it, which together with some other improvements led to this. But don't worry, your subscription feed is safe, for now...
I have an idea for a new approach to the bluff that might be faster, hopefully without a crash. Use (-12,-133,22) from the Lower Monastery to warp inside the catherdral in the Upper Monastery. Then go to (-14,-107,-2) in the Upper Monastery, and use these coordinates on Marten's Bluff after you get the perfume, to warp right under the trap door. Open the door, and then use the staircase here to warp to the crusher. Open the door by the wires and deal with Raven. After you've talked to Zant, go back up the elevator and around to the trap door to get to the teleporter. You don't have to worry about the spawns downstairs, but now you have to worry about the spawns upstairs, especially the ants. Still, it might work.
That is a very long and dangerous way to run, and I would have to run it twice. It is probably faster but if not the ants or the apus, the random spawns outside would surely get me. Keep in mind that there are two monster generators behind the castle and also the crocks who might randomly end up in a bad position. It might be worth it to check for some abusable weak spot in the castle wall, but I don't get my hopes high.
Loading a save while standing very close to a zone transition allows for a glitch where if you walk into the zone transition during the loading screen, the transition prompt will still pop up even after the save is loaded. If you then refuse the transition, the game will revert to the original party from before loading the save and it will put the party back into the same zone where it was before loading the save, but it forgets to change the coordinates of the party, placing it on a seemingly random spot. So the main goal of the run is to collect useful coordinates in various save files to use them later for huge skips. Sounds simpler than it is :)
@@biogoo So let me see if I got this right Stand next to edge of map. Start loading screen In the second before the loading screen goes through, move into the edge of the map. So once it finishes it still has the message there? Or do you hit the edge of the map, load the loadup menu as you run into it? There's also some keyboard shortcuts you're using in a lot of places I've never seem to be able to figure out. Such as how you're navigating items while running or how you're hitting 3 points with one click in the menu. I'm also wondering if I'm playing with bad settings for a newer computer cause the game does not run nearly as fast as it does on yours, even though the computer I'm on is fairly up there.
I run with openGlide software rendering set in the 3Dfx settings. I don't know if it is generally faster, but in windowed more Direct3D causes some stuttering for me. Otherwise, in-game options sliders set to max speed and also continuous combat to speed things up a bit. As for hotkeys, experiment a little bit with right clicks instead of left clicks :) And yes, you got it right. Doing the trick too often without restarting the game will eventually lead to a crash, though. There are actually faster theoretical routes for the speedrun, but they require way more "warping", to the point where the crash is pretty much guaranteed, well, at least on my PC.
I need someone with artifact skill for the knock picks. Faerie bishop is easy to kill off. If needed, she could also cast energy blast, but that only comes to play if there are more spawns in the Monastery.
It looks like you have discovered some sort of bug in game and You exploit it to use to teleport around the world. Spawning cherry bombs is more like a simple cheat.
![Might and Magic 7 - Speedrun [37m 41s]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LxPKyf3cCi8/mqdefault.jpg)
Just that you understand how rare this run was:
Monastery: About 1 in 30 attempts, I get a similarly clear path. My fastest times during the attempts were about 15 seconds faster, but that requires incredibly lucky spawns and monster movement (I'd say that in about 1 in 200 attempts I could level up below the 3 minutes mark, about 10 seconds faster than in this one). An average successful Monastery run is about 20 seconds slower than this.
Arnika road: No spawns in the path are rare-ish but it happens. Arnika road is usualy not so bad, about 45% to get at most one group that requires a warp skip, about 45% to get several groups in the way, about 10% to get an empty-like one (either empty or with melee spawns you can just run around with minimal time loss). Actually a shame I can't showcase any Arnika road skips in this video, it wouldn't cost much time. Still, such good Arnika road after a great Monastery is obviously very rare.
Swamp: About 4 out of 5 attempts, it works just like in the video and all the spawns can be easily avoided. Still, I have had several very promising runs (including some of the under-3-minute Monasteries) killed by random BS like unicorns directly in the way.
Marten's Bluff: Is mostly OK, but has several dangers. First, if any enemy gets killed by the rapax trap, the game crashes (provided that you "tag" the rapax, which I have to do for the extra XP). Second, during the last visit in order to move towards Bayjin, random spawns can block the way - this can be sometimes rremedied by combat move, thus me saving right before that, but sometimes it is just game over. Overall, I'd say once again 4 out of 5 attempts work out.
Lower Marten's Bluff: Empty path occurs in about 1 in 5 attempts and saves about 12 seconds. Usually it's Apuses in the way which is OK and can be dealt with through resting, but some spawns are pretty much game over as they will often block the path during the second visit. There is actually an alternative approach to this map which is even faster than this as well, but sadly it involves too many additional warps which inevitably causes a crash later on, at least on my PC.
Arnika-Trynton road: Usually empty or with harmless melees, just like in the video (let's say 4 out of 5 again), but of course it is great to get it empty after such an amazing start. I have had promising runs fail on this map before because I kept getting long range enemies several times in a row...
Arnika: 9 times out of 10 no problem, just like here, except Urq's bomb usualy works and doesn't backfire^^. Sometimes, orbs spawn at the tower that are fast enough to block the way.
Other maps are usually without dangers. The Sea caves are actually usually better, as the 3 seconds nap after entering tends to get rid of the ghosts. This pretty much costed me the sub 26 mark, but to be honest, this also goes on me because I was overly careful towards the end to not screw up. Ascension peak can have some troll spawns which are large enough to block the path completely, but the chance is heavily reduced by entering the map without (low level) Vi in the party, which is what I do.
Anyways, thanks for watching, see you next time! :)
@@Aaabbbcccdddeee1234 Hi, yes, when loading a save, your current party can still move a bit. And if you use this small amount of time to enter another map, then the game gets a bit lost. It will only load the map coordinates from the save file but you continue to play with your current party. So if you manage to create a save file on any map at the right coordinates, you can use those coordinates to teleport around, even on different maps. Not on all maps can you access all the coordinates you need though, so you cannot teleport everywhere at will, and some running around is still required.
okay wait what. WAIT WHAT? - me about every minute watching this. Amazing run, but also: what!?
Woooooooow man its great! Im just play w8 like 6 times but never ended it it ever for 100 hours and see u doing THIS so epic!
I spend more than 26 minutes pick pocketing the rat in the monastery.
I'm having lunch break.. *plays through wizardry 8*
Absolute fucking legend man
In-fn-sane
I also named that hobbit Gaben, wtf man :)
It's the looks :)
this is nuts
Damn that teleporting :D :D amazing
I have an idea for a new route with significant changes. For this route, you only need to level up one alchemist. That may mean higher level spawns on Arnika Road, but you don't fight them anymore. You won't need the extra combat experience, but you still need to kill off your level one teammates eventually if you don't want to get hit with bad spawns on Ascension Peak.
You need the coordinates (4,99,2) in Marten's Bluff, which is just south of where you teleport in from UBC. If the spawns to the south are a problem, remember that you can warp in combat. So, you can just save the coordinates where you enter the map. Then, when you need to warp, you can load back here, and do a combat run to the coordinates, and then load the targeted transition(you will only use these coordinates once.) I'll call these coordinates "q".
Grab most of the coordinates that you need in the swamp, except for "bv" and the Savant. You can return to get those later after you have portal spells, so you don't have to run to the exit after talking to the Savant. You can even teleport away from the Savant in mid-sentence, and the Don will still get the Astral. You just need to start the speech. You don't need the fake astral. You also don't need to visit Crock at all in this route.
Now warp inside the fort, grab the wires and the arm, and go down the elevator. Save the coordinates near Zant, but don't talk to him. Run to the teleporter, and on to Arnika. When you get to Arnika, use the "q" coordinates to warp inside the Mook building. It should place you right on the elevator to Urq. You don't even fall. Hire Urq, grab the orb, and warp to the center fountain. By the way, you do the same number of fountain warps in this route, as we'll skip one later. You don't need to pick up Vi, because you aren't rescuing her. Just ignore the crash site. Head south from the fountain to get the Don coordinates and exit Arnika.
Return to Zant through the Trang hut, and hand him the flag, the orb, and the ship coordinates. This should get Urq to level 11. Run to the teleporter, and drain Urq's stamina. Save Urq's portal at the teleporter and drag him into the Umpani camp. Warp through the obstacle course, and then talk to Kunar to get his keycard. Now talk to Balbrak to turn in the arm and the keycard. This should get your alchemist to level 11, so you have your second portal. Don't forget to return to the Swamp.
Since you're relying on Urq for one of the portals, you need to get him into Bayjin. Since you've already drained his stamina to get into UBC, you just need to keep his stamina down, and not let it recover until you need him. That means you can't use fake combat rounds or camping to recover stamina during this portion of the game. You do start with a couple of stamina potions, and your alchemist can cast stamina on himself. He won't need earth magic for anything. You can use Urq to freeze the swamp, and still take him with you into Bayjin by warping.
It's probably impossible to manage Urq's stamina after Bayjin, because you have to camp in the sea caves. To get Urq into Ascension Peak, use the calling/portal technique.(Run to the zone, and dismiss him when he complains. Line up quotes and click on him. Run into the peak, set your portal there, and run back before the dialogue starts so you can recruit him. Teleport him back in.) Now save the game at the transition back out. To freeze the staircase path, you'll actually use Urq. First, warp the party to the beginning of the staircase path, and have your alchemist save his portal there. Next, return to Urq's portal. Now line up some quotes, dismiss Urq, teleport back to the peak, and start combat before he leaves. Since the dismissal command was given back in LMB, he won't know he's on the Peak.
The Raven quest takes a minute. Rescuing Vi takes another minute. Leveling up another alchemist takes 40 seconds. This route avoids all of that. There are some other minor efficiencies, like warping directly into the Mook building instead of running to it and talking to the hologram. Avoiding the rest at the MB crusher hopefully eliminates the problems you've been having getting back into the swamp for Bayjin. Judging by a previous video, it took bit less than a minute to return to UBC and turn in the arm, including some time spent running down Urq's stamina, and drinking a potion. Now, this didn't include talking to Kunar, but the majority of this time was spent simply getting to the main barracks area. I think this route could be over a minute faster, overall.
You have some great ideas in there!
I actually spent like an hour trying to find out a way to get out of the Mook building if I warp right in, because I had a strat that could use it, but it didn't work out so I let it go. Later on, I discovered the death warp to Arnika, but completely forgot that I could use it for exactly that purpose :D
Anyways, great find with the dismissal before porting in, that sounds increbibly useful no matter what.
So, what you say is to skip Vi and raven rapax (thanks for pointing out that you can skip it at all) and get it from UBC instead. I think that UBC might be faster than raven rapax alone, considering it requires talking to Crock first, not mentioning the fact that both the swamp run as well as tagging the raven can kill the run on the spot. Also, not resting on the Marten's Bluff map will only improve the chances of not encountering anyone later on.
Congrats man! Totaly have no time to watch streams and record videos, but this one I must see :D What about commenting the next record? "D
There will be no next record unless something groundbreaking is discovered :)
@@biogoo How did you figure out the warping thing anyway? This is a shock to me, I subscribed to you because of the runs two years back, and now I get this craziness in my subscription feed!
@@copper4936 Haha, welcome to the next generation of Wizardry 8 speedrunning :D
The warp was discovered by "Orachin" from buka(dot)ru who told me about it. What happened next was the search for optimal save spots to get the most out of it, which together with some other improvements led to this. But don't worry, your subscription feed is safe, for now...
I have an idea for a new approach to the bluff that might be faster, hopefully without a crash. Use (-12,-133,22) from the Lower Monastery to warp inside the catherdral in the Upper Monastery. Then go to (-14,-107,-2) in the Upper Monastery, and use these coordinates on Marten's Bluff after you get the perfume, to warp right under the trap door. Open the door, and then use the staircase here to warp to the crusher. Open the door by the wires and deal with Raven. After you've talked to Zant, go back up the elevator and around to the trap door to get to the teleporter. You don't have to worry about the spawns downstairs, but now you have to worry about the spawns upstairs, especially the ants. Still, it might work.
That is a very long and dangerous way to run, and I would have to run it twice. It is probably faster but if not the ants or the apus, the random spawns outside would surely get me. Keep in mind that there are two monster generators behind the castle and also the crocks who might randomly end up in a bad position. It might be worth it to check for some abusable weak spot in the castle wall, but I don't get my hopes high.
I have no idea what it is I'm watching... how are the saves glitching this?
Loading a save while standing very close to a zone transition allows for a glitch where if you walk into the zone transition during the loading screen, the transition prompt will still pop up even after the save is loaded. If you then refuse the transition, the game will revert to the original party from before loading the save and it will put the party back into the same zone where it was before loading the save, but it forgets to change the coordinates of the party, placing it on a seemingly random spot.
So the main goal of the run is to collect useful coordinates in various save files to use them later for huge skips. Sounds simpler than it is :)
@@biogoo So let me see if I got this right
Stand next to edge of map.
Start loading screen
In the second before the loading screen goes through, move into the edge of the map. So once it finishes it still has the message there?
Or do you hit the edge of the map, load the loadup menu as you run into it?
There's also some keyboard shortcuts you're using in a lot of places I've never seem to be able to figure out. Such as how you're navigating items while running or how you're hitting 3 points with one click in the menu. I'm also wondering if I'm playing with bad settings for a newer computer cause the game does not run nearly as fast as it does on yours, even though the computer I'm on is fairly up there.
I run with openGlide software rendering set in the 3Dfx settings. I don't know if it is generally faster, but in windowed more Direct3D causes some stuttering for me.
Otherwise, in-game options sliders set to max speed and also continuous combat to speed things up a bit.
As for hotkeys, experiment a little bit with right clicks instead of left clicks :)
And yes, you got it right.
Doing the trick too often without restarting the game will eventually lead to a crash, though. There are actually faster theoretical routes for the speedrun, but they require way more "warping", to the point where the crash is pretty much guaranteed, well, at least on my PC.
Что за обузы адские с сохранениями?
Good work. Congrats. I think I understand the rationale for everything you do... except one thing: what’s the reason for the Bishop?
I need someone with artifact skill for the knock picks. Faerie bishop is easy to kill off. If needed, she could also cast energy blast, but that only comes to play if there are more spawns in the Monastery.
Legendary thing. Interesting how much time it takes to speedrun it without gliches?
I haven't really focused on a glitchless run yet, but it shouldn't be longer than two and a half hours.
@@biogoo in general very nice work. I didn't expect to see any speedrun for such old game.
I really want to play this it is like EverQuest
I thought that looked liked GabeN and then I saw his name
Amazing😮
It looks like you have discovered some sort of bug in game and You exploit it to use to teleport around the world. Spawning cherry bombs is more like a simple cheat.
Yes. No cheats on the bomb though, standard alchemist starting gear.
now speedrun the expanded mod >:D
Speedhack actually