POINTE SHOE FITTER REACTS TO OVERTRAINING FLEXIBILITY!
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- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2022
- over stretching is not the way, pass it on.
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overstretching is not the way to get flexible, pass it on. 🫡
Agreed. Do you have any tips for what is the way to get flexible, though?
Overstretching can cause permanent damage. Even to a “stretchy” person. I speak from personal experience. Stay safe, train smart.
Josephine, thank you for making a really important video. Could you perhaps do a video series about safer training strategies so dancers are better equipped to understand if their teacher is going too far? It’s hard to know at what point uncomfortable becomes bad pain, and for children who are often doing something that an adult tells them to (school or dance or home chores) it’s even harder to speak up and be taken seriously. Help them gain the vocabulary to express themselves safely and constructively.
I did competive gymnastics from baby age basically 4. And ended up with juvenile arthritis by 9 because of over training. I actually refused to put my flexible child in gymnastics at a young age and didn't even start acro dance until 5. But glad we stopped at cause she could contort like the circus person by 7, I didn't want same fate for her as acro teachers love to over push the flexible.
What are some good resources for teachers to learn the reasons why. My girls both have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. My eldest is 9, comp dancer in everything, chooses to dance daily and her muscles are super tight, but her joints are too loose (hence why her body is so tight). Shes a strong dancer, and once warmed shes very flexible. However They are using yoga blocks for over splits and the girls use them as a fun competition as to who has how many blocks. Shes just now getting to that point in pre-puberty where things start to slip more and more injuries can occur. I.e. she just landed her aerials for her solo but quickly twisted her ankle. (Im coming full circle I promise 😂) This happened after a full afternoon of stretching, acro and rehearsals where she was loosened up with overstretching. My question is what is your honest opinion on how to stretch kiddos with hyper flexible joints (if shes not warm shes more prone to injury) and strengthening their muscles without over stretching. Im just a mom, but her new studio is incredible, but overstretching is still done (not to this extent of crying).
(Sorry for the long post, i never comment, but I am really interested in your opinion since Ive been following you for years :) )
Ok, this is straight-up child abuse, no matter in what culture, place, or time... This is scary... Jo's reaction was so pure, tho... 💖💖💖
agreed I liked how she blurred out the kid's faces because it's not ok to put children's faces online without consent. She has a heart of gold. PS I'm not a dancer but putting kids through this makes me want to cry
i get your perspective but i think this video is chinese and these kids are chinese it's just like this in china, anything is like this in china, its not really abuse because you signed up for it and you can quit anytime, I understand you maybe being first time seeing this it's a bit scary, but this very normal in china, and i don't really know how to explain this but i'm not saying i support this or anything but i just want to say if you don't understand this you shouldn't really say too much about it, again i'm not trying to be mean, just saying from a chinese person's pov
@@catherineliang1891 1. Culture doesn’t justify abuse. Just because is normal to abuse kids doesn’t mean it’s right.
2. Kids didn’t sign up, the parents did. If the kid doesn’t comply it will most likely be scolded
@@msoynri first of all im not trying to say that this is right i am just saying that this is a complicated matter and it is hard to explain to people but it isn't abuse but it is a complicated thing to explain, second of all the kids chose this route, they chose to be a dancer and this is just how they are trained, they could have chosen other routes
@@catherineliang1891 It's not complicated. People who try to say it's "their culture" make it seem complicated to justify the continuous abuse.
This is standard Chinese Dance training. I had to go through this for many years. I am not naturally flexible and was unnaturally pushed and hurt to achieve such results. Even many years later I can still do the splits but its so frustrating that people don’t believe me when I tell them I’m not naturally flexible and went through a lot of pain for my flexibility. My brother is 7 years younger than me and he is getting safe and proper training. He still can’t do the splits yet but he is slowly and naturally becoming more flexible. The new and safer flexibility training methods should be shared.
Yea I experienced some of Chinese dance training. I say some because I opted out of the classical dance classes, because of the ridiculous exercises. I did only Chinese folk dance and luckily for that you don't need to go through such ridiculous exercises, folk dance all body memory exercises. Though there are stretches for shoulders and back stoll, luckily my back is naturally flexible. Guys have it really bad in Chinese dance schools regardless classical or folk. Since guys are expected to be able to do so many tricks, though not as much in folk dance.
Unfortunately it seems there are still many places that do these exercises and believe them to be the best way.
Yes, I went through this when I was at 7 and had to go to these lessons every week for 4 years. Literally every kid in the lesson is crying. When kids come out with tears all over the face the parents actually laugh and thinks it's funny. It's hilarious.
My man, this is child abuse no matter what… I’m sorry no one’s sat you down and explained that
Same im Chinese Canadian
I had to do this too!
Such a good point. As someone who deals with hypermobility, my "inflexibility" is actually my body saying "your muscles don't support this level of stretch...stop stretching." I actually get more flexible the more strengthening I do
I wonder if that’s what I have, as stretching only hurts my muscles. After a few push ups I did feel more flexible aside from the fact that my abs were tighter.
@Revolutionary Presence, I also have hypermobility and I totally agree with what you're saying
Fellow Zebra and former professional dancer here. I'm nearly 40yo now and my body is a mess from all the years of over-stretching. It's a struggle just to keep my joints in the sockets nowadays. Be safe guys! 🦓🥄🥄🥄💖
@@carebear6921 person with hypermobility and years of experience with a sport that requires flexibility and strength: if you're hypermobile you should ne able to notice it easily when you're not performing an activity, for example your knees might bend back past the point where normal people's do if you lock them while standing up. However, evem without hypermobility, stretching will feel uncomfortable if your muscles aren't adequately warmed up or you're stretching beyond your current capability. If it hurts a lot, especially if the pain persists for a while adter stretching, or you feel a painful pulling sensation around your knees, you are doing something wrong. Doing strengthening exercises doesn't really give an immediate benefit to your flexibility, so most like the push-ups just warmed you up. However, regularly doing strengthening exercises will help with flexibility because you build up muscle tissue that will support your joints and keep them stable during stretching, which lessens the impact on ligaments and tendons, that WILL cause really painful and severe issues when torn. This stabilising effect also helps with posture, which in turn helps with hip, neck and back pain!
If you want to get more flexible in a way that is less likely to cause harm than passive stretching, I recommend yoga (except yin yoga, which includes holding poses for long periods of time). Yoga is also good for strengthening the smaller muscles which play a key part in stability of the joints! Exercises like different types of lunges and squats are really good for strengthening your legs in a way that builds stability as well as balance.
I'd suggest looking up what hypermobility looks like in different joints just to be safe, and if you are indeed hypermobile, consider consulting a professional (like a physiotherapist) on finding safe ways to work out with the condition. I injured myself quite badly and spent years recovering cause my coach didn't really understand the types of issues that come with hypermobility and stretching. So be safe out there!
Ever since I was little I had my leg bones jump out the hip socket all the time. Just walking places. I would have to do a weird circle movement with my leg to pop it back in. No one ever cared bcs I was a chubby kid. Didn’t learn that I was hypermobile till 33. Always only heard “just do sports” and when I replied “but I always hurt myself” they would say “doesn’t matter. Do it anyway”. Which there was more awareness in medicine about this. Nowadays my hips constantly feel locked and tight apparently it’s the muscles trying to keep me upright. So your comment checks out. I no do light workouts intended for my condition.
Ok I'm actually glad you did a reaction to this video. I've actually seen the whole video and other videos that they have and it breaks my heart what they put those kids through. Those babies are literally crying while the coach is pressing down on them or overstretching them until their bones pop and start crying. When I was younger doing ballet I did have a teacher who would make us stay in an overstretched split and it caused me to have pain. I eventually ended up moving to a different studio and didn't have to do that.
That's so awful, I saw it too it's heartbreaking
Kathryn Morgan has a video about stretching with thera bands where she talks a lot about how dangerous the wood foot stretchers and other forceful methods of stretching your feet can be. Healthy bodies and minds build longevity in sports!
What’s the video called?
Their RUclips channel is called SaSa Li and it's filled with videos of them torturing those kids.....this video in particular I want y'all to see
ruclips.net/video/SX778rohRbA/видео.html
Same I watch them too
It would be really helpful hearing stories from adults of all ages who were trained and overtrained like this as children talk about their physical condition over time, and how their bodies changed.
I think with a lot of these sports that require extreme flexibility like gymnastics, ballet and taekwondo the concensus for a long time was just that your body gets stiff and you get pains with old age, but with so much new data about passive stretching, over stretching and even over training I think people are starting to recontextualise what happened to their bodies. I personally always had hypermobility but then I got fibromyalgia in my early 20s and it's been a rough ride unlearning some of the stuff I was taught when I was doing taekwondo as a child and a teen. It took me a while to learn how to work out and stretch in a way that wouldn't be harmful for me so I definitely think there needs to be more talk about what this pursuit of flexibility in these sports can do to a body.
Comanecci is on denial, absolutely psychologically blocked. Mukhina can literally barely talk and endless cases of non voluntary transgender processes are silenced with money. KGB style. Nowadays, just to name a case of abuse, Dina Averina (russian rhythmic gymnast) is competing with a crazy SEVERE spine injury wich requires major surgery. But this surgery will be delayed until Paris 2024 since she wasn' t able to "bring the gold to her country" in Tokio 2020-1 (only a shitty silver that, of course, was a complot🤦🏻♀️). You can see plenty of videos of her fainting and crying of pain. If she doesn' t resist and breaks completely, first option: her twin sister, Arina and Dina "at least" will have the economic resources to treat her chronicle premature arthritis in the best clinics. That' s the scenario💀😮💨
Sadly, a LOT of the people trained this way grow up to do it to their own kids.
I was over stretched as a young adult, and it caused my knee to swell… I had water on the knee and it took months to shrink it back down to get back to where I needed to go. I get it every once in a while now ever cents, if I hit my knee I’m always in danger of my knee swelling up and it could be months before it heals up again. I did have water on the knee naturally as a kid due to potassium deficiency, so this is some thing that my body already did, but it hadn’t done that in many many years. It didn’t need to happen. You have your splits you’re fine. I didn’t need to sit in my splits for five minutes 10 minutes… smh.
My body hasn't changed much. I'm still flexible...but I have severe joint and arthritis issues, as well as fibromyalgia. However, I was also a Flyer (Cheerleader). I'm 54, now.
This is how I was trained for my gymnastics. But that was 40 years ago. I teach Gymnastics now and use none of these methods. I also lost that flexibility by the time I was 18. Since I started teaching at 33 I still can't even do a split despite stretching almost everyday, multiple times. Mind you that all of it is done during the classes I teach as I stretch with my students during our 15 minute warm up. I don't expect to ever regain the mobility I had when I was 10-15 years old which is the last time I remember being decently flexible.
They did similar things 10-15 years ago when I did dance.
I feel so bad for U
I also did this training just 10 years ago I knew girls that stretched in a front split in 90 decrease onto the wall I stop doing gymnastics after that and I have lost most of my flexibility. There are people still training like this. It hurts
They did this 20 years ago too
Glad you are teaching the correct way. I was lucky enough to be very flexible and at 45 i can still do splits and stuff.
I remember being in ballet as a preteen and getting injured by a substitute instructor who tried to push me to be more flexible. I was extremely tall and have always been inflexible. I was stretching my leg on the bar and he came over and slammed my leg down with some snarky saying about how I had to push myself. I strained a muscle and was in pain for weeks. Nothing wrong with stretching but there are right and wrong ways to do it and serious pain is always wrong.
That is absolutely terrible! My dance studio would teach flexibility, but they would never push you like this. I am flexible because of them. You don't need to over stretch to be flexible.
A dancer I knew was pushed into a stretch at a summer intensive somewhere and ended up with torn cartilage in her hip which required surgery as it became so inflamed she could barely walk. I sure hope whoever that instructor was, they were informed of the effects of their actions. It is never OK to be extremely forceful, even with a young dancer, because you don't know what limits a person's body may have from birth.
i can relate to this as well! for me, being a dancer at 5’11 is extremely hard!!! recently i pushed myself to far and pulled a muscle! my teachers have pushed me but never like this!! i’m so sorry this happened!!
@@haylee6106 My dance teachers never pushed me, it was me! I injured my back by pushing myself!
@@amimia3496 i think it is important to have teachers who believe in you and push you to become better!! i also think physically pushing you is just going to hurt you in the long run!!! so, yes, teachers should not push you to this extent, but it is also important to have teachers who push you with their words and their helpful tips for stretching and becoming a better dancer!! 😊
I was overflexible in dance and swimming (butterfly was my specialty) and now at 30 I’m staring down a potential second back surgery from the micro injuries I was giving myself. This kind of training is dangerous and can not only affect the soft tissue, but also the bony tissue. A lot of young orthopedic candidates are former young athletes who have repetitive motion injuries from poor technique and overtraining like this. This is actually really sad. :(
I’m assuming that your arms came out of the water at a high angle instead of right over the water when you swam butterfly
@@mickilarry4890 My technique was a mess until it got corrected in high school. Coming up too high when not breathing, really coming up too high for a breath instead of rotary breathing, keyholing which threw off rhythm, just a mess the way I was taught. I did manage to correct it but by then years of damage was done.
i’m one of those lucky orthopaedic candidates, i just got a double hip splint and can’t stand on my own for two months, i have several inflammations and strains and i’m only 20
Omg I’m so glad this video exists 😢 When I was little my mom enrolled me in a ballet class. We did no ballet whatsoever, absolutely nothing on the barre, it was just hours of stretching and stretching. Everyone was crying, confused and at the same time mocked by the teacher about how ugly our crying faces were. It felt like pure hell for a small child and after a month I refused to go. My mom went “Oh I guess you’re not cut out to be a dancer then” and gave up on me.
Sadly it still seems to be a common misconception in China that torturous overstretching and even physical abuse should be seen as normal in the dance world. One of the historical reasons for that could be that in the old days, families who couldn’t afford to feed their kids might sell them to performing street artists, at which point the kids were someone else’s property to stretch and beat as they please 😢 Now that those traumatic times are behind us and people start to have access to more research out there, I’m glad to say that I have seen people making an effort debunking those myths even in my home country.
It is also videos like this that really help bring awareness to this issue, as well as advocate for young dancers who don’t yet have the knowledge or power to protect themselves against unhealthy practices. Thank you so much!
I feel s bad for you! I’m 13 and I’ve just started pointe, over stretching is terrible! I always make sure to go as deep as I want when I stretch.
Here in Las Vegas there are stretching classes that overstretch like this and the kids cry. The moms of the dancers really like the classes because they feel this is how to get them to be the best, but when a mom showed me a video (she was proud of it) of her daughter crying, but stretching her back farther and nailing a move, I was in disbelief. I still don’t understand why parents think its ok! Especially to this point! Its not just happening in other countries, it’s popular in the states for competitive dancers too.
I've been binging ballet videos lately and occasionally the topic of this style of overtraining (common to russia and china) comes up occasionally; and you get a lot of people, not even nationals of those countries, defending this abuse because it gets "results". You see this a lot in other types of similar sports like figure skating and rhythmic gymnastics. Parents, your child has no one but you to advocate for them. If you don't intercede on their behalf, their bodies will be ruined from a young age.
Im 28, disabled, have 2 forms of arthritis, and oh my god, my joints are ON FIRE watching these poor babies 😭 I understand in different cultures they have different ways to train, but think of the babies 💜
culture does not justify child abuse though. (not saying you were justifying it, just pointing it out that "culture" is not an excuse for abuse)
i have a really good friend who goes to China every year, he is a doctor. He said the sports/gymnastics/ballet/Olympic state level training for kids starts too young. He has performed many surgeries, joint replacements, in China. As his patients continue to grow, they need more surgery. He goes back every year to continue to treat kids who he feels were truly destroyed by the state. He sees the same kinds of injuries here in the US, but the kids are in their late teens. I am honestly afraid to give too much detail; as he does travel often, and I would hate to know something I said could keep him from patients he has bonded with.
In the 2008 Beijing Olympics, I happened to walk into the living room just as some of the female Chinese gymnasts were on screen. I asked, "How old is she? 8?" That was before I knew there was controversy that year about the ages of the Chinese gymnasts. Poor kids.
This comment must be pinned, please. 🧛🏻♀️🖤
Yes most gymnasts and ballerinas will end their career in their 30's, because by then the effects on their bodies will start to show and they won't be able to perform anymore even if they wanted to.
Forcing a little kid to stretch like that, or wear pointe shoes at a very young age, is asking to have their career end in their 20's instead of their 30's. And usually with lifelong health problems. I meant these kids are basically babies, toddlers !
Forcefully stretching someone beyond their physical capability and inflicting emotional pain on them, itis no different than a medieval torture tbh
In the 70s when I was little, we did a lot of training like this for gymnastics. It was torture, and I quit. I loved to do gymnastics, but even that little, I was a nope out for pain being mistaken for dedication.
This just gives me more appreciation for the instructors that run the dance studio my daughter goes to. They never push children beyond their limits.
As a hypermobile person: even if this doesn't hurt you because you're hypermobile, DON'T DO IT! If you're hypermobile, focus on strength/endurance training instead; your body will thank you in the long run.
Whether you're hypermobile or not: this puts a ton of strain on your ligaments AND with certain joints you're actually purposefully dislocating them.
EXACTLY!!! As a "flexi-bendy" myself, I can't tell you how much I'm paying for being hypermobile now that I'm in my late 60s. As a kid, I was a tumbler's dream, but now? As a yoga teacher, I'm learning my own limits and I'm schooling my students on how it's OK to NOT be flexible and that RUclips and Instagram are not great places to get training advice. Qualified teachers are your best bet, and it will all catch up with you in the end.
I am so happy that my ballet studio intentionally encouraged us against things like this while training. My knees eventually did a *small* amount of hyper extension, but it wasn't something my teacher encouraged or wanted for any of us. (it happened after 6 or so years of study?)
Should do a reaction video to the Russian gymnast videos where the coaches forcefully hold them in dangerous stretches, pulling their legs backwards and the kids screaming in pain.
bruh my teacher did this and both of my hip joint are completely destroyed right now
You should take her to court
One of the things that really gets me about this is that all these kids are being forced to do everyting to the same leve (same amount of blocks for over splits etc.) so not only is there no consideration of individual bodies needs and abilities, they are also teaching these CHILDREN that if they can't do exactly the same as the person next to them they aren't good. WTF!!!
Huh. My dance teacher used to do a lot of this stuff, lots of overstretching and stuff. And now I'm here watching this 2 1/2 months post-knee surgery because dance destroyed my knees and I'm just thinking "wow. How much pain could have been avoided?" (A lot, my teacher was kinda physically abusive but that's another story)
i’m sitting here with both of my hips immobilized due to the same issue, i’m only 20 yet my joints are completely destroyed
@@m4tta yup, me too. Only 22
I’m ten years old and have been doing ballet in China, and this is very true for some studios. One of the first ballet studios I went to was exactly like the ones in the video, thankfully the ballet studio i’m going to now is pretty nice they do ask you to overstretch a bit but not at all like this, it’s really sad.😢
Always pushing your body a little bit to the limits is ok, but if it's bringing pain and tears then no!
I used to do ballet when I was little. I was one of the less flexible student in my class, and I can't even do a split. Every class my teachers would shame me for not being flexible, even when I stretched almost every day and sometimes even a few minutes before and after class. This eventually made me quit ballet when I was like 11 years old. To this day I still can't do splits.
I am an adult ballet learner. Always wanted to dance since I was young but never had the opportunity. Since watching you 3 years ago, even I have no ballet background, I was inspired to take up the courage to learn it and your education on pointe shoes and feet have helped me a lot. Watching these babies being pushed to over stretch are painful to watch from a new learner's perspective. Thank you for your reaction on this to let people know that there are dangers of over stretching. Keep educating us. Thank you.
This gives me hope lol I want to try it, but I only got to do it when I was around 4 and even then, it wasn't really that much, I had it in my mind that if you didn't learn at a young age, you couldn't do it.
I genuinely didn't know this training wasn't normal until this video :c
I did training exactly like this since kindergarten up until COVID-19. I was more fortunate than others becuase I was naturally flexible, but during covid i realized that I'd experience random pains and had become extremely stiff even though I wasn't even a teen yet. I thought that it was completely normal.
To answer the question, usually, kids undergo this kind of training at 7 years old, maybe younger, maybe older.
I really appreciate you blurring the faces of the girls, it's very kind and respectful.
I started learning ballet as an adult exactly because as a kid that's how we were trained. I couldn't bear it and quit and since my parents were dissapointed that I quit they didn't let me join other dance classes as an older kid&young teen. Now I'm in my early 20s and started taking dance classes again, I can pay for these myself and have great experiences with amazing adult ballet teachers. There's so much space for abuse in children dancing(and pretty much all children sports), it breaks my heart. Both the pressure from the parents and the fact that children can't really set their own boundaries in terms of what the teachers can do to them...
I did Ballet in the 80's and I never had to do any of these. My teacher was also a physiotherapist so I guess I must have been really lucky
Your teacher being a physiotherapist is precisely the reason why you never had to do any of those. They clearly knew the dangers of those stretches even if the rest of the world was yet to catch up. Very lucky indeed.
This is sooooo sad. These poor girls and boys. And their poor bodies. I'm crying right now. This was sooo sad and scary.
one of my old dance friends was the most flexible person id ever met, but none of us realised she was constantly over stretching until she suddenly tore a ligament in her knee. she needed surgery, was out for over a year, and lost all her confidence
so always please please please be careful when stretching
This video has been showing up a lot on my for you page on RUclips for the past few months... never had the guts to watch it because the thumbnail told me more than I needed to know. To see this now... still hurts, even if I expected it. It's great and super important to explain why this is not the right way to stretch or force someone to get more flexible. Thank you for doing this, and I feel your pain!
Aaaand this is how you have athletes peak at 16 and retiring in their 20s. It's not just ballet that does this to kids, gymnastics and ice skating as well.
My ballet teacher used to say the more pain you felt, the more progress you're making. It sounds terrible now but back then, it was a pretty normal thing to say
My dance teacher overstretched me forcibly and she ended up tearing part of my hamstring. Don’t push your body past the breaking points.
my teacher tore both my hip tendons this summer and i’m here half a year later with double hip splints and surgery coming up… i don’t know if i ever want to dance again after this honestly.
This was what stretching and conditioning looked like at gymnastics for me in the 90s. I now have hip, knee and back problems 😑
I still remember a gymnastics teacher forcing me into the splits as a child and seriously hurting me. I was not flexible and it was obvious to anyone. This looks awful
Over stretching is still relatively common in Rhythmic Gymnastics in some countries, sadly. I've been through it myself and if my future children would ever want to try that sport, I wouldn't forbid them to do so right away, but I'd definitely be present for the first training sessions and I'd be watching like a hawk. After that, I'd still be on high alert and if I'd notice so much as a hint of a red flag, I'd definitely pull my kid from that sport immediately.
I don't support torturing kids, because over stretching is torture.
As someone with Ehlers Danlos type 3 and am continually dislocating joints because of my hypermobility this physically pains me to watch. Seeing someone doing this to such young children is soul crushing.
This keeps showing up in my recs page with adults forcing down crying children, I report it every time, don't know how youtube allows it. I grew up with some unsafe training, forced stretches and pointe when I was 8, but no matter how tough or old fashioned you are there is no purpose training children to cry and cry from pain unless the adult responsible is sick. Thank you for bringing attention to it from a trusted place.
This is standard for gymnastics as well. I was trained in this way. We had coaches put their entire body weight to push us down further in out splits.
We literally have a “stretch class” where the teacher basically just makes us slide into the splits and do a bunch of overstretching. What makes it worse is that it’s the first class of the day so we aren’t even warm.
I am thankful that you commented on this video! Through my interest in ballet and artistic gymnastic I have unfortunately had videos like these coming up on my RUclips "feed".The videos come from different countries but containing similar content with kids overstretching their bodies often overtly in pain and crying. I find the videos distrubing. Kids bodies should not be put under this type of pressure and pain. Kids crying in pain from exercises is not sports or art. I do understand that for certain sports and arts flexibility is criterion, but there has to be more gentle ways than this!!?
I wish they found different words to get us to train when I was a kid. They told us that "pain will make us better" and that's how we ended up willfully doing the stuff you see in the video. Not to that extreme but definitely not healthy for the long term growth of our bodies. Is there a word for "lightly fatigue" and "smart progressive overload with deload at regular intervals" that works in the dance world? That word would've definitely helped out my younger self.
This makes me really glad that my dance teacher just teaches us the dance moves and how to improve our tecnique. We do some stretching but nothing like this.
Oh my god, watching videos like these make me so sad. I’m so glad Jo is promoting not over stretching. I always feel the need to be stretching all the time and it’s not good so Ty for making this vid ❤
I had no idea overstretching could lead to mobility issues, I'm so glad I found this video! It's been years since I've slalom skied, played soccer or rode my quad and I can definitely tell I've lost a lot of flexibility in my hips. I really want to get back into stretching and working out I just dkn where to start besides the old school typical positions.
My mom was trained very similar to this in the US by a Russian ballet dancer. She has foot and hip issues most likely due to the training.
When I was young I could do extreme backbends and such but when pregnant got sciatica and learned that folks who are very flexible young might have ehlers danlos to some degree and should not overstretch on purpose!
Yes, this needs to stop, it is full abuse in gymnastics in China and Japan and some other countries 😭 not helpfully in the long run :'(
This channel deserves more subscribers, more views, more likes, more love, Josephine you are so funny and I love watching you so so much 🫶🏻🫶🏻
Please do more videos like this. I hate when people overstretch but your reaction is so professional and correct great job Jo ❤
My ballet teacher when I lived in Thailand was amazing and she mostly used evidence-based training, but unfortunately she did like to overstretch us sometimes. I was always injured after those classes where we would overstretch and lost flexibility every time.
I’m glad you reacted to one of these videos. I’ve seen them before and there traumatizing, plz do another over stretching video!❤
This breaks my heart 💕💕
Very good advice. Bravo!
My dance studio focuses on expression and just to experience your love for dance. I’m so fortunate that my teacher let us do what are bodies are comfortable with. Because of that I’m pretty flexible and my body doesn’t hurt. And that made me love dance even more
If my parents saw this at dance; they would've yanked me out of that class in 3 seconds.
Having lived in China, I will point out that these children, when they are selected by the state to attend circus, ballet, or various forms of gymnastics school, it is considered an honor. The parents don't see their children much. The children are sent to live at the school and the parents allow the teachers and coaches to do most of the parenting. This is also true for almost all middle school and high school students who all ,ive away from home in dorms. China is very different than the US as jobs are meted out and many times parents are sent very far away to work in offices and factories and have little to no say in where they work or what they do. You have to have a permit from the party to get a job, leave the factory ( working 16hr days 7 days a week making products for US consumption) or leavibg a job and taking another. The parents don't yank their kids out because they get free education, free housing and food and learn a craft that can bring the family great honor and prosperity if they receive national or international acclaim. The long-standing 1 child policy put even more pressure on those little shoulders carrying all of their family's hopes and expectations on them.But not all parents in China are like this and many choose grueling work to send back money to their home provinces to care for the grandparents and child. But if the state chooses your child you have little recourse.
@@harlowesadventuresinwonder1564 lmao many people in china would probably wish your statement is still true, how jobs are "meted out" when in reality theres a job shortage and China is practically capitalism max at this point. In reality, parents probably are paying an equivalent of tens of thousands of bucks for their kids to attend these outdated dance extracurriculars in order to make them more competitive in high school/college application process. Honestly buddy, google search and look up what's the job market is like in China - no one needs a permit and there are worker protection/labor and employment laws in place. No one really consider state provided sport training as an honor anymore - people now days aspires to be an influencer on weibo/tiktok or pursue an education abroad. The carrying hopes part is still true tho, but that is more in terms of >16 hrs a day studying for students in order to attend a higher ed institution in the States like harvard or something ...
@@chriscollins3148 And the last time you were in China? Ever lived in China? How do you think China is able to make all of the cheap goodies they flood the US with? By abiding by labor laws and paying fair wages? Nope. It is by building huge factories with around the clock shifts which gives them the agility to retool over night. All those nice products that Americans want super cheap? Most come from factories staffed with political/religious prisoners that work for free. They don't get paid. The folks that do get paid, their salaries go right back to the factories for room and board because they are required to live there and eat there. Just because Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou looks impressive and has lots of fancy western stores doesn't mean the average person could ever shop there. The people who are getting rich are high ranking members of the party not the average citizen. I know because I taught in these state run schools and universities and saw all of it with my own eyes. I listened to my students tell me what life was like for them. The Chinese people are some of the most amazing, caring, and wonderful people that I was lucky enough to know. The government, not so much.
@@harlowesadventuresinwonder1564 when was the last time you were in china? the 1980s? early early 2000s? buddy you are dating yourself. how long did you teach there? how do you know what your students told you aren't exaggerating the facts because you are not a chinese person? How much chinese do you speak and how do you know that you didnt misinterpret their words? You taught what- English? lol have you ever been to the rural parts of China and lived there? "by abiding the labors laws?" - i said there are labor laws in place. We have laws in place in the states but people still do not follow the law. have you ever jaywalked? lol. Even though a lot of the things you said aint the reality anymore, i still do agree with your last sentence.
@@harlowesadventuresinwonder1564 Thanks for that perspective. Had no idea. All parents are forced to make tough decisions for their children. Josephine said the video looked older, so hopefully things have changed.
I love this video's so much !!
Hey um I’ve been waiting for you to react to this for months now and I’m glad u did
I had a teacher once when we where doing a partner stretch class (one person stretching while the other is pushing them further) say not to listen to the person if they told you to stop pushing. I hated that class and that teacher so much. Thankfully I was usually able to go alone because there was an odd number of students and i had no friends, but its not a happy memory
This is good to know to check out the teacher before entering my future children into a dance class.
I used to get stretching tips from dancers, back in the 90s and early 2000s, but ultimately, once I was in college, I was fortunate enough to have a martial arts coach who told me to stop that and why. I still have fully functioning, pain free joints to this day, thanks to that man!
Can you make a video of the right ways to stretch for things like over splits? There are a lot of videos showing stretches like the ones in this video, but I haven't come across many with safe stretches.
I've done these trainings as a kid doing ballet in China in addition to other ones (like making your partner step on your foot to stretch it while in a seated or split position).
This is so upsetting. I mean, I’ve seen cheerleading videos that were even worse. I can’t drop a like for this but I still love you! 💕
You're right it's not safe at all! They do this in gymnastics as well! Tasha Schwikert, 2000 Olympic bronze medallist had a piece of muscle tear off the bone due to Bela Karolyi pushing her down and over stretching her while already in over split position!
Sounds horrific
And Bela Karolyi paid out the nose for medical treatments following that, yes?
i saw the video too and i questioned the teaching method, thanks for covering this topic.
Well that just triggered some repressed memories of gymnastics conditioning. I can’t tell you how many hours of my childhood were spent sitting in hyper splits with a coach sitting on me. I was always very flexible without trying so my hyper splits were already insane so with a coach sitting on only made me feel like my hips were going to pop out of socket and my legs were going to snap in half at my knees. I’m 39 now and I can still do my splits but I’ve learned that I have hyper mobility.
I ended up with juvenile arthritis at 9 cause if the over training from 4 years old
Sounds very much like my ballet training. Luckily I was very flexible. We were encouraged to do over splits. Teachers would "bounce" us up & down to force flexibility.
"with a coach sitting on me" A thousand coals on that child abuser when they wind up in hell where they belong. Absolutely disgusting.
Unfortunately I think a lot of teachers/coaches still use these kind of methods especially in acrobatics and rhythmic gymnastics.
I did figure skating from 4 to 7 years in Russia. Everyone cried during their hair being done, than everyone cried during training. Good thing it is no longer considered the norm, as the soviet mindset leaves sport schools.
The only exercise out of these that I remember doing for ballet is backups, however, we never had other dancers sitting on our feet, simply holding them in place. Still, I remember my stretch and strength teacher would make us do things like this when I was in late elementary school/early middle school. This was in the US in the mid-2000s/ early 2010s and I know lots of studios that still train like this. Over-stretching and forced stretching is common across the dance world, and because of dance culture, many teachers refuse to change their practices.
China. No F's given when it comes to being competitive. They do this to their athletes and gymnasts as kids. The parents pretty much turn them over to the state trainers and they go through crushing training to perform. You can see the Chinese banner on the wall in some of the shots.
it’s weird cos some people say “oh the parents signed up for this it’s fine (trust me, i commented and a whole CULT attacked me) and some people say “awwwh it’s horrible” well i think it’s HORRENDOUS even if the parents knew what they were in for…
Oh! These poor little kids! Their "teachers" are monsters and my heart goes out to the little ones. 😢
The fact that I was in one of these classes where they would just force you to be flexible and overstretch you is just sad. I remember everyday we had to do splits and put both or one of our legs on a short chair (not even a cushion). It never helped me become more flexible at all it did was make me hate dance. But I’m so glad that my grandma told my mom to let me quit. I hated dance because of this (idk if it’s kinda sort of trauma???) I never liked dance class since then and never thought I would actually start dance again. Thankfully I wanted to give dance a second try and this time my teacher and my dance school doesn’t need us to be very flexible.
"Is this circus training?" 😂
Contortion and hyper-flexibility isn't natural for our bodies. My mom worked for many years assisting surgeons during surgery as a nurse, and when she watches athletes and gymnasts with hyper flexibility, the only thing she thinks is what's going to happen after when they are over 40yo. She was in a clinic that did a lot of operations on athletes.
I came across an Instagram account where a lady was doing some sort of heavy-lifting while juggling with some sort of contortion (like doing a deadlift while being bended in half on your back and those sorts of things) she was obviously very strong and extremely flexible, and it looked very impressive (and dangerous) but when I shown this to my mom, her reaction was very clear when I asked her what will happen in the future for her and athletes like these.
This is what she said:
-> she has way too much mobility and flexibility in the spine. Right now her spine doesn't support anything, it's all in the muscles. Her strength will diminish naturally with age, and her spine won't be able to support her own thorax properly. She will surely end with screws and plates on her spine to block it so she won't snap in half.
I am no expert, but this isn't the first time I hear things like this. You'll get flexible and strong and all, but you'll end like a plank if you over do it. Everybody does what they want, but they should be aware that this isn't normal and it ends with consequences.
As someone with EDS I was really confused by the reaction to some of these poses, bc to me they are normal… but I also have chronic joint pain 😅 now I have a better idea of why.
I could not even finish this! Those poor children. Thanks for raising awareness though
First one of all of your videos that I'm glad it's not longer
Thank you!
Oh I’ve watched this channel and all the kids are crazy flexible😢
So true, me and my best friend were both dancers and she always overstretched but she always had way more accidents then me, we did do some of these as kids tho, 30 years ago
I expect that's a dance school in China, I've seen them show the flexibility to a group of old party men to show how well these kids were trained. Like little machines bending and throwing legs all in a row. They are not interested in making them last a long time.
I only started this kind of intense training (gymnastics) when I was 10 or something, and my back is DESTROYED according to my neurologist, physiologist, and multiple PTs. I have literally lost the ability to walk normally, and now rely on crutches 5-10% of the time, and daily anti-seizure medications that impact my ability to drive, focus, and live independently.
Do not let your /children/ enroll in competition. After something like 10 years of trading, I never even got to the point where I could complete a backbend-it was just the repetitive stresses of the attempts, the destruction of the leg and hip ligaments as shown in this video, and so on that did it.
Sending love to everyone who is struggling with this video!!! ❤️
I remember back in the day we had dynamic leg stretches - we would stand, back against the wall, lift either leg as high as possible, and your partner would bounce the leg up until your foot (en pointe) touched the wall.
Yep sounds like my ballet lessons.
As someone who has quite severe hypermobility syndrome and a history of abuse it hate this on so many levels
Y’know the sound of when you crack your knuckles? I imagine this room is filled with an absolute chorus of that 🫢🫣
I see this all the time sadly in rhythmic gymnastics here in China. In schools that have the newer generation of coaches its not as bad but the old school teachers do this all the time and I've had some kiddos come to class barely able to walk from it.
I'm a tap teacher
Are there laws in China that allow parents to sue staff who cause permanent injuries to their kids? Just curious...
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 That one I'm not too sure about, I'm a foreigner working here so I'm still learning
I remember similar training here in Canada back in 2010-ish? I already had an injured knee, Osgood Schlatter, by that time at 8 years old (not dance related, I think soccer was the main trigger, but overstretching really didn't help). The mats and things weren't stacked that high but I remember using a bench a handful of times. My knee is still messed up, and dropped out of dance at 15 :(
I was in a cheerleading squad for a very short time, and the coach (who was also the P.E teacher) would get on top of us AND BOUNCE, or she would make you split in front of a wall or a wide staircase, and push you from behind with her legs. The saddess part is that she had a daughter that was overtrained and you could see she was so over it, she was like 8 and was already over it. The school fired her after 2 years.
Personally, I didn't suffer much, cause I was quite flexible when I was young, but half of the class was crying.
When i was in elementary school (i was like 12-13 years old) i got obssesed with Dance Moms and wanted to be flexible as the girls and i was overstretching myself in home most of the time without warmup and after 8 years today i have problems with my back and my knees, so yeah it is not good at all.
I started crying...this is pain that loud i can still hear an feel it...i can take emense pain... because of the breaking....
Interesting...I`m naturally very elastic, I started doing ballet at the old age of 33 and it did not take that long for me to get oversplits, backbends, and a lot of the things that I`m seeing those little kids do and Josephine get scared. Having said that, I`m already an adult and never did any of that training those little kids are doing, my body was always bendy and as soon as I started doing a normal ballet class it became even more flexible...now I`m wondering if maybe I should stop because apparently I might be hurting my joins, and I defintitely don`t need injures considering that I`m well into my 30s now...at the same time, I only do ballet twice a week and is such a fun workout that I would be sad to let go....
Hi Valeria, it's not inherently bad to do oversplits and such, it's that they're forcing children who are still developing to sit like that for a long time (and are in distress and crying). I would check with your teacher and your doctor if you're worried, but you should be okay if training correctly. It's like weight lifting, it's not inherently bad for you to lift weights but you can really hurt yourself if you're doing it wrong!
Hey I am also a noodle. I can bent my knees in almost every position and am mostly limited in my movement bc my bones will hit eachother.. I wasn't allowed to stretch by my last doctor. So I never did and let me say, I now have multiple pains due that advice.
Switched doctor, she said that I was able to dance if I wanted. As long as I did listen to my body and stretch normally.
Ok, no comment on the video because it is upsetting so I'm just going to comment on how AMAZING your hair looks!
thank you :)
It was just stunning.
We were forced to be flexible ie being pushed down in the splits etc. I was just lucky I was extremely flexible. This was 38 - 46yrs ago. Thankfully when my daughter danced flexibility was done gradually & carefully. She to was/is naturally flexible.
I did so much of this 😅
I think the last couple of exercises they were doing were to strengthen the core and back. That makes a lot of sense, but basically everything else is not healthy stretching methods. Static stretches should be primarily used to relax the body after training is finished, and there is no need to sit or hang in a stretch for a long period of time, just long enough for the muscle group you are stretching to let go and relax. If you are working on improving your flexibility, make sure to also do plenty of dynamic stretching. Dynamic stretching is when the body is active to some degree, not stretching while fully relaxed. Besides the stretches you do during ballet class, dynamic stretches are things like high lunge, standing figure 4, or doing your splits in an active way by pointing through the ends of your toes and reaching out of the hip, which will strengthen your jumps.
i was only in gymnastics for a little while and never got farther than the basics... but i was overstretched like this and now- at 21- i deal with chronic pain... and it doesnt help that it doesnt pair well with my EDS and childbirth. my hips are B A D
I lived in china for many years and i've seen teachers do this and it really breaks my heart. It's not that effective for the children in the long run and just puts them through unnecessary pain. Some people start at like 5 or 6 and this is still done to them as a teenager.
I worked with a woman who grew up wanting to be a career ballerina and the horror stories she had from crap like this. A lot of girls being instructed to physically force other girls into splits and such. I REALLY hope this crap dies out.