You're right, how dare they blame him, he clearly needed all those rare cars and since he's the ceo he is well within his rights to cut costs accordingly
@@AdityaSingh-lp5rp Dawg, thats not what they said and you know it. Parsnips getting axxed wouldnt solve the issues we have atm. It'd just help some of them.
Couldn’t agree more. Was my first raid (was a late d2 bloomer who started during beginning of witch queen) and anchored me as a player through thick and thin
Uh, me and my guardians tryna get it yah bish( ya bish ya bish) Hit the tower and pick up some bounties yah bish( ya bish ya bish) 3rd party you? Yeah that’s invasive( that’s invasive that’s invasive) From 1 to 7 my card flawless ya bish( ya bish ya bish) Dreams of going flawless with my dudes(with my dudes with my dudes), Back when Luna’s Howl would two-tap you( would two-tap you would two-tap you) I just beat Cross and went to tell my bros( tell my bros tell my bros) Then I played Wallah that shit hurt me bro( it hurt me bro it hurt me bro) I’m at 5 games don’t have a mercy ya bish( ya bish yah bish) think those cheaters round the corner lurking ya bish( ya bish ya bish) Fried up some crayons just to ease my mind( ease my mind ease my mind) Cuz if I lose my monitor is dying( my monitor it’s dying mane) We won the 6th game but I carried yah bish( yah bish yah bish) Flawless game the competition scary yah bish( yah bish yah bish) Went to the final round we had to wait (had to wait had to wait) But then I clutched it up with glacial quake. It’s goes Titan…then everything else If it ain’t titan put it on a shelf The warlocks biting’ THEY TOOK OUR AIR DODGE!!! but the one who has the bubble lives forever…(YHE ONE IN THE BUBBLE LIVES FOREVER) And I been puchin all day Thisa way thata way Through the Vex and Hive always Just to say that a hunter must be related to Drake mane that just how I feel. Thank you I’m going to bed now.
15:20, I think if the boss had EITHER the random one shot lightning OR the clones it would be totally fine. It's the combo of the two that makes it so frustrating to do
6:00 The issue is also, that negative videos pull in outside communities WAY more. All the core fans not watch it, but John Random LOVES to click on drama videos and give retention.
It was nice to watch the Funny Destiny Experience with a New Player btw. Zero optimization mindset, zero focus on sweatiness and efficiency. Just havin fun with your buds. Game's still one of the most fun games when you play with your buds who also just wanna have fun.
15:06 i genuinely don’t have a problem with the one shot lightning as a concept, but my issue with it is that it’s not visually obvious enough. 9 outta 10 times, i died to the lightning because i didn’t realize i was standing in it
7:40 I honestly want this just because I find having to work with strangers for literal hours to *maybe* get a good gun is not fun to me. Raids, in my opinion, are also less about actual skill and more just following a list of instructions flawlessly, or die instantly and reset.
@@Wormy_fren Exactly! My friend actually put his D2 and FFXIV raid clears on his resume to prove he has teamwork skills and the interviewer was impressed.
If you think following a set of instructions to the letter isn't a skill, I don't think you've been in a lot of group projects where your teammates are somehow incapable of grasping the basic concept of your project's prompt. Joking aside, they're a pretty healthy mix. If you can't follow the instructions, you can't clear the raid. If you don't have the mechanical skill to stay alive in this game amidst enemies shooting you and ability to deal enough boss damage that your team clears it before you're out of res tokens, you can't clear the raid. Honestly the fact you're saying it doesn't seem skill-intensive to you tells me you're probably more than skilled enough at d2 to beat raids easily, and it's the people that give you problems. Ask a more average player and they'll probably tell you that raids are pretty skill-intensive or difficult.
@bbagginsmcswaggins Idk, hitting motionless targets in order isn't that hard. I'd prefer the focus to be on the actual combat, aka the main gameplay, which is why I prefer GMs. But we just get suped up strikes and strike loot instead of story relevant raids with unique loot. It's why I like raiding in other games but not destiny. The main focus of their raids is combat, positioning, and mitigation, not juggle these three objects and memorize one of fifty symbols.
Hey Datto. I love you and all your stuff and your channel! I just wanted to mention a comment regarding the "thoughts vid vs fun vid": The thoughts vids are more scripty and podcasty and I can listen while I do things. But the fun vids you have to watch (visual attention) to appreciate all the humor and jokes and experiences, as well as since it's not scripted there can be luls in the talking/audio. So it's also a lot easier to watch you talk about something and provide opinions and thoughts as it's "action" all the time (and I can listen while I do chores or eat or play games). The fun vid is "harder" to watch because I need full attention all the time! Basically saying that it's ALSO because of the format, not just the type or "side" of the argument. For example, THIS video I know will be easy and amazing and informative and entertaining to watch/listen to. Whether it's positive or not, it's more informative ❤
I appreciate your efforts not to be so negative about the game, I wish more creators were like you and understood the long-term consequences of constantly saying your game sucks and is dying. No wonder we have trouble getting new players.
We have trouble getting new players because the game sucks at new player onboarding. Datto literally made a video about this a week ago with his friend who is new to D2. I never realized how things in game that have become muscle memory for me, can be confusing to a new player. Positivity comes naturally with good content. Positivity may encourage new players to try D2, but it's the quality of the game that makes them stay for the long term. Positivity cannot compensate for the important new player features this game is lacking. Once they get into the confusing new player experience, no matter how positive the community is, they are likely to leave and never come back.
@ the new player experience is definitely a big reason, but the community’s negativity dissuades them even before that, at step zero. But Destiny’s core gameplay (moving around, shooting your guns, using your subclass) is amazing, and it’s the main reason the game succeeds DESPITE bad onboarding. I feel like I’m in the minority for having faith in Bungie.
@ You can have faith and also raise valid criticism. I don't think that's being negative necessarily. Problems need to be fixed, not ignored to maintain a superficial positivity. I also want this game to be good, been playing since beta.
@@JimmyYYK9241 There's absolutely valid criticism, and it should not ever go away, but that's a pretty different thing from "DESTINY 2 DYING AGAIN (NOT CLICKBAIT)" 2 hour video from somebody who hasn't played in six seasons. There had to be some give and take. Or with a more specific example, Jez's video on TFS's story which spent the first forty minutes making mistakes with lore that he literally hasn't paid attention to in years, and he openly admitted he chose to only skim over documents handed to him on a silver platter for the express purpose of producing the video. He did have valid criticism about the narrative of the DLC itself, but it's built on a base of "I don't know because I didn't care to know and am only now pretending to until i find it tiresome to read events I was present for. Also I chose not to finish the story, anyway why do I have unanswered questions?"
I had always interpreted the overdelivery line as “don’t add more content quantity wise than you can deliver consistently” with quality of content being separate from the quantity available. However in that same breath, a lot of people play destiny in that all-at-once playstyle, so no matter how good the content is it’ll be perceived as a bad release if they blow through all the content in a couple hours. Curious to see how the Heresy experiment goes
Yea I keep thinking about perennial content. Stuff that people enjoy. It's hard to keep people from not blasting through things. Idk it's a hard thing to drill down on.
Wasn't Menagerie the first 6 person matchmade activity? I think the novelty of that probably doesn't seem as important now but it was a big deal at the time.
8:22 Easy Mode: I don't think there should necessarily be an easy mode but a "practice mode" with reduced enemies, no wipe mechanics and no tokens. Then you can focus more on teaching mechanics and boss damage and hopefully will push more comfortability with the core mechanics and teach the basics without the stress of everything else going on
Re: Overdelivery; Hi, I work in a field where scope creep is an ever-present issue to deal with. The customer always tries to get more. They want everything, but we only have so much time and resources to make the thing. So we have to set reasonable goals and achieve those goals consistently. The "don't over-deliver" comment feels a lot more like "don't let our scope creep beyond what we agreed on or what we can handle." Like, yeah, we would all love the best thing ever with endless content, but folks, let's be reasonable. They can only do so much. That being said, I haven't always been happy with what they put out, but we shouldn't assume it's just because they are being told to not over deliver.
i am so damn happy bungie is returning to the weekly content drop, and i hope that continues into the future. it gives a feeling that things are happening and progressing in the world, instead of everything happening at once and then nothing happening for weeks.
5:34 - Where the hell was this fun video? RUclips is so f-n bad at showing me positive videos my subscriptions upload. I either have to choose between being bombarded with notifications and emails, or not see the videos.
@@tudeabides it's because people watch the negative videos and ignore the fun videos. The algorithm pushes negative content because it gets more views, which makes the algorithm pushes it even further, cycle repeats.
Like you said. With Power Level. The difference between Destiny 2 and other games is that in those other games, you get some sort of quantifiable reward like stat increases or unlocking some new skill (or in Destiny 2’s case, a Fragment or Aspect for example). The “Make number go up” is needed for Destiny 2.
the overdelivery thing has been one of the things that caused me to stop talking about games with randoms on the internet because everyone takes it completely literally and it makes me want to pull my own teeth out as they decide to misunderstand everything out of nothing but sheer cynicism and a desire to be angry at anything
You are absolutely correct. I don’t know if this phenomenon is present in other game communities but a loud active portion of the community are players that not only quit but for some reason want to see the game fail. So they watch and feed negative Destiny content so their decision to quit feels justified. It’s a very weird obsession they have that harms the rest of the community.
It's not hard to see why as the proof is in the pudding. The game feels like it's being intentionally held back. The amount of insane stuff they could do but simply don't is absurd. If wasted potential was an IP, it would be Destiny. People take it literally because when I look at the game and then hear that statement, it aligns with reality in a literal way, the game feels like someone was constantly looking over the devs shoulders and going "that's too cool, how are we gonna top that next season? Don't make it"
It's tiring watching Destiny players shove criticism away as ragebait and handwave the GDC talk as "not that bad." Sorry, but it was Bungie saying the quiet parts out loud. Were there molecules of truth to what Truman said? Sure, but just as much, are things Destiny players mangle history on. Like, they'll say "Destiny overdelivered with Forsaken." Wrong. Activision gave Bungie two external studios to help them with Forsaken. That's why it had so much content. Then, once they split from Activision, and they were solo, the underdelivery and focus solely on profit started/continued. Destiny ad a franchise has "overdelivered" only a couple times, and several even of those have caveats. Most of the game's life has been about underdelivery, and to be clear...the "patterns" remark is flat out untrue. If you release GOOD memorable content, it can still be less than a previous release, but if it's powerful enough to leave an impression, then it doesn't matter that it's "less." Paul Tassi, bless his heart, constantly praises Bungie for the speed and quantity of Bungie releasing Destiny content, but all that speedy content has been shoveled out, plowed through, then carved out and chucked in the trash, it ended up being manhours incinerated for quick cash, never to be seen again. This idea that the GDC talk is overblown needs to stop. Many Destiny players have been unimpressed with the content for a while, and no amount of toxic positivity and denial will fix that now.
wtf are you talking about with overdleivery? they dropped forsaken, shit popped off, they said "chill with the overdelivery we need to give them mediocre bullshit" and look what we got until witch queen mediocre bullshit. witch queen was a bit too good so they had to drop dogshit lightfall. then they drop final shape and I bet the next 2 mini expansions if added together will be dogshit
HOT TAKE Destiny 2 stopped being a looter shooter when they radically upgraded supers and light/dark kits. What made Destiny 1 popular was how fun the gun play was and how diverse the weapon models were. Destiny 2 has never advanced beyond the basic module of Destiny 1. Bungie has added more perks and added traits, but why should you use a gun when a melee or infinite grenades can do 3-10x the damage without ammo? Warlocks don't even have to do either because they can make turrets!
Everything at once: I think there IS a right answer. It’s the timegates. People bitch, but they also LOG IN regardless of bitching. Unlike now where we’re seeing weeks without “new releases” where people just aren’t playing. One of the largest flaws Revenant has face is that people do everything day 1 and then bitch about it for 6 weeks, instead of logging in weekly and only having a few days to shit on everyone’s fun before there’s another bump of things. Menagerie: Menagerie was fun, but if Menagerie had crafting, it’d have been absolutely dead way faster.
For power levels: I think it would be really cool if power level was changed to be something more like a vanity thing. Instead of getting pinnacle gear, you get a pinnacle quest each week. You need to complete 6 out of 10 possible pinnacle quest items each week to get your weekly pinnacle point. So like a combination of ~5 PvP matches, ~5 strikes, ~5 gambit matches, 1 raid, 1 dungeon, 3 Trials matches, etc. It wouldn't provide any combat boosts, and is simply just a vanity number displayed next to your title that you get to show off. That way you still get that "number go up" feeling that everyone loves, but it doesn't feel like a requirement that needs to be done every week, but there is still good incentive to do so, so you can show off "big number". And to add, since this kind of lines up with guardian ranks, change guardian ranks to be border that goes around this pinnacle number that changes as your "guardian rank" goes up. So maybe a star pattern border where every time your guardian rank goes up, you get another "star point" on your border around you pinnacle number. So at guardian rank 8 and pinnacle level 150, you would have the number 150 bordered by an 8 pointed star. This would show, (at a glance most importantly) what a players experience level is, somewhat, along with what is essentially their time played.
Okay but adding that question about the gumbo was super funny, and calling your bud was great too. I really love moments like that in these kind of videos. Great video overall too!
From my experience with trying to onboard people destiny is just a bit of an incoherent game. It’s a looter shooter with superpowers (implying power fantasy) that is also consistently trying to make prestigious and challenging content, the only way they find of doing that (given the premise) is decreasing the players efficacy or introducing unintuitive and awkward mechanics. The end result being 99% of the time people end up being disappointed and dissatisfied with the core gameplay loop and for content like raids might even be put off completely, because more experienced players aren’t necessarily willing to spend more time on every encounter just to Shepard in a new player. That’s just from my experience trying to get new players in. I don’t think the way to solve this problem is to just make everything easier necessarily. I think more intuitive, solo-able and matchmaking enabled activities could help because at this point you only have strikes, onslaught, dares and world-zones. Half of which are extremely repetitive and world zones are generally just wasted space. Slightly less insistence on “balance” would also help tbh, the friend who was patient enough to actually accumulate some loot worth keeping was still mostly disappointed by almost every weapon they obtained.
For raids, an "Easy Mode" would be a good idea because playing casually has been only a handful of times I've had 6 "friends" online and ready to do a raid. Before 2024 getting 3 or 4 would be much more doable. Just having a mode where fewer than 6 players can sort of run the fight with partial mechanics would be a nice goal let alone being less lethal.
i really have been loving the slow descent datto has taken into just being the destiny anthony fantano, and the lets argue videos have cemented that. ive loved the occasional "nickthony nametano" that he would do for years now
A good alternative to light levels for armor could be defenses and defense types. Bring back character levels and enemy levels, such that the higher the level they are, they deal a certain average amount of damage and have comparable resistances and defences. Instead of having resistance mods, armor could have a certain defense rating against arc or stasis damage, or both etc. Same with projectile, melee or aoe attacks. And instead of having regular stat rolls, they can have multiple rolled modifiers. Like +%# shield recovery, +%# super regen and maybe super rare modifiers like +1 class ability charges to name an idea. Totally not a long time PoE player but it sounds like a cool thing for armor 4.0
It would be nice if raids and dungeon progress did not reset each week. I have a group of people who can occasionally meet up and do a dungeon or a raid, but not always the entire thing. If progress saved until you complete the activity or you chose to reset the checkpoint then I think that might help the casuals play as they wouldn't have to finish everything in a week. And before you say checkpoint bots are a thing, I'm talking about casuals that probably have not idea those are a thing. It needs to be a built in feature.
something on the easy mode raid topic that was talked about fairly early from your point of view on replaying salvations edge "i stopped doing it because there's no incentive" this is why we need a d3, in d1 the community didn't do the raids solely to get every single roll they wanted, they also did them because they were fun asf and simple enough to solo & teach that you could have hero moments; in d2 there are no hero moments and the teaching ability of each raid continues to go down further making newer players reject that content
And a Destiny 3 would change that how? The reason D2 raids are like that, is because bungie has moved to a "pinnacle of challenge" mindset, and a mindset that all raids must be grander than the last, that wouldn't change with a new game at all, infact likely get worse
@@joshuacroll8534 a d3 will provide an opportunity to reevaluate their current mindset vs what actually needs to happen to draw players in and retain those players in endgame activities we can't continue to smile and stay in d2, player retention and upfront sales have been declining for years, so has endgame participation when looking at player activity, let alone raiding this isn't the titanic, we do not have to go down with the ship experiencing a slow and painful descent to our lowest point just for something to change so if raiding is just as bad in a potential d3, well then that's on bungie for screwing up yet another chance but waiting for the stagnant water of d2 development to give us the changes we need for this content, is not something i'll be doing and judging by the pure player stats, neither will most people
shared fate from a death destroyed hero moments in raids imo, someone dies, a 2.5 minute wipe timer starts going down it's so dumb. If they want res tokens in raids, don't put the shared fate timer in to punish the team. If they want the shared fate mechanic, make it master mode, no reason for it to be a normal mode thing. also I think that having res tokens really defeated the incentive to maintain a subpar encounter attempt, I hate the res token system in raids because it eliminates hero moments and goes from infinite revives to ~6 depending on who dies and just makes the raids harder than they need to be for raiders. I think the rez tokens should be a master mode thing only and eliminate it for normal mode raids like back in D1
No one took it too literally the fucking game has suffered, has been suffering for a while and this "don't over deliver" statement makes total sense and no heroic moments it all makes sense. Minimum variable product is what they are talking about. Apologetic all you want Datto but this isn't a thing that can be explained away.
I never did the loot bug for menagerie. The thing i really liked about menagerie was how non linear it was and how the level wasnt just a straight line. It would have you go to a random room that would require you to go down all these paths and run through other rooms you might have to go to later on the way to your objective. It would also reward you with a shorter run the better you did. If you did well youd likely only need to see like 2 or 3 rooms while if you did worse then youd have to see all the rooms. When it comes to making a good and repeatable seasonal activity, the more variation the better. Dares is a neat alternative with its random enemy encounters but the problem with it and what can make it a pain to run over and over is the fact that youre always seeing/fighting in the same first 2 rooms with the only variation being the 3 possible boss rooms at the very end. While im sure its probably way easier to make an activity with the level structure of something like dares, i think adding more variety in not only enemies encounters but also level structure on repeated runs is a really healthy thing for the game.
Bungie should give us the option to sync quest progress across characters. I don't want to replay all of act 1 and 2 just to run the exotic mission on a diff character.
To be fair: I think a lot of the ppl rewarding toxic videos are people who haven't played Destiny in a long time if they ever did, and they want to hear opinions justifying their own.
Id say a guided mode in raids would be great. Keeps the mechanics the same, nothing changes, but each player gets assigned a role they can choose before the encounter starts Once started, each player individually gets their own mission objectives to complete with visual waypoints as to where they need to go as well as what to do. Each objective completion will move on to the next step, entirely teaching in detail how to complete the encounter for their role through active playtime, at their own pace, and on their own with little help from teamates. If every player does what they are told to do, naturally they will get to boss phase, or complete that first step of the encounter, ect until the encounter is complete. I would also add additional time to timed objectives so that players are able to read and understand what's going on. Like for example the switching with a partner in the puzzle room at Shuro Chi The rewards I would say should stay the same as running it without guides. I mean if you have an entirely experienced team, the reward is a faster completion time am I right? And yes I'm taking inspiration from how BO6 guided mode does with Easter eggs. It's been a massive success the way they handled it. And of course, guided mode won't be available until after a few days or a week after worlds first has been claimed and Contest Mode is gone
2:00 Except in that same talk, Justin literally did say they went out of their ways to stop devs “with extra cycles” from going above and beyond. They literally stopped devs with nothing better to do from making the game too good. It sounded pretty damning to me.
because they don't always have those free resources. and if they put in that extra because they have the time and resources, then the players will start expecting that level. then when they no longer have those resources (shit happens over in development world), the players will get dissapointed even though you're still delivering the "normal" amount and quality of content. it's a form of expectation management. the point is that as a developer, you should do as much as you *know* you can do CONSISTENTLY, and nothing more. sure, every once in a while you might be able to do more, but that's not consistent.
@@thatoneguy2274 "shit happens over in development world" you mean shit like massive layoffs? The ones that were caused by the massive drop in revenue due to player retention and population? That in turn were caused by lowered player sentiment due to either the lack of content or the low quality of it? Man, it's a good thing those developers were stopped from overdelivering, cause that would have ruined the game and make everyone quit playing it.. There is a difference between "overdelivering" content and overhyping it.
@@thatoneguy2274so the C-suite stopped the devs from making basic quality of life improvements and bug fixes. Because if they did, we would expect them to be able to make more fixes when they knew damn well they wouldn’t have the resources once they dropped all that talent Sony payed them to keep? Yeah! Checks out to me! 👍
I have made my mark in data for myself by going above and beyond but it has also cost me dearly. I now stick to my sprints and if I can deliver MORE, AND it can be QA'd AND delivered on time, I do it. But by me over delivering and it could cause QA or Prod to miss, then no. That's what they're talking about. The moment you start to go out of scope, you miss deadlines, etc.
4:14 But I have. I've stopped watching most Destiny tubers/streamers, not because I wanted to, but because the constant lack of morale is draining my soul. I literally came on to talk about this. I want to support my creators, but I do not want to support this cycle. I quit D2 from Vanilla until Season of Opulence because of negativity. Things can suck, and I believe to a point we are responsible of doing what we can, but at the end of the day, it is the developers themselves that need to seek out those opinions. I think a monthly, hell even tri-monthly video containing all the grievances would suffice. It's gone overboard imo, but ymmv.
Balatro feels like it’s about alot of slight lane changes, so obelisk feels like swerving a three lanes and not looking at incoming traffic. It’s hard to prepare for and hard to find the tools to properly adapt to.
menagerie was so good man, season 7 was soo good. just seeing that picture flooded me with the good memories of that season and that time in my life. i love this game man
It's hard to say Menagerie was overhyped when it's core design philosophy was recreated with a watered down version for Season of the Dawn and Season of the a Lost. It's also the design philosophy behind Dares of Entirety. One opening encounter into seven (7!) possible secondary encounters with completion time and difficulties scaling based on your teams ability ending in one of three rotating bosses. That's a formula that really pushed the feeling of Playlist stagnation deep. You are seeing so many different patterns with different enemy factions. And if it didn't work Bungie wouldn't have given us Diet Menagerie, Cherry Menagerie, and Menagerie Zero Sugar
8:02 I guess this depends on what bungie wants to achieve. Currently as it stands not a whole lot of people play hard endgame content like raids or dungeons for the same reasons(teach,no one to play with, people quit early, etc). Does bungie want more people playing higher tier content or do they want to maintain the difficulty of the endgame content. If it’s the first then they should add a guided mode. Everything stays the same except there arrows pointing you to where you need to go to dunk a buff or something.
On the Menagerie bit, Lightfall had a similar bug for zoning out and back in for the chest to farm loot too, but still is classified as the worst areas, activities, and worst expansion so its not that the loot is what made it good or bad, its the actual activity. Menagerie was good for what it was. We also got a similar customizable loot system via Alchemy and its not everyone's favorite either, so again it wasn't the loot or rewards, it was the activity, which was good.
Something I just experienced I wouldn't hate to see in the Raids is from BO6 Zombies, a Guided Mode that walks you through how to do the Easter Eggs. Something like that to learn the Raids or at least help with learning.
8:29 Since we're arguing and such, I'm going to come out with an elitist take and say that if you need an easy mode for dungeons and raids you need to learn how to actually play the game and come back. Dungeons and raids are already easy for the most part. If you want easier content you can go do playlist strikes, the game is easy enough. (Also we already have an easy mode for raids, it's called Root of Nightmares.)
The issue with Salvation's Edge is the 4th encounter. It has nothing to do with the rest of the raid, sometimes it's just hard to see which symbol is what while avoiding all the damage and it punishes minor mistakes with a wipe. It honestly looks like Bungie had finished 4 encounters total, but after the complaints that RoN was too easy they decided to go back and make SE harder and overcorrected. That's why the 4th encounter doesn't even look like it's from the same raid as the rest of the encounters.
Datto do you think something like the guided mode in the new COD Zombies could be a bridge to raid and dungeon easy mode? If you don't know, guided mode basically caps the amount of rounds you can go through as you do an Easter egg, and shows you how to do each step of the Easter Egg quest. The only real limit on rewards in this case is there are more exclusive cosmetics that can only be earned from doing a "real" Easter egg run
I'll probably update my comment as he goes through the points, but: 1.) This is extremely easy to fix, literally just have extra content that was able to be produced after the main bundle was finished prominently labeled as such in it's own category on release teasers and whatnot
Obelisk struggles due to how much you benefit from developing a consistent, focused build. Sure, there's times when it works out, but at the same time, if I've built my deck around a certain strategy, the value you get from Obelisk almost never outweighs the value I lose from pivoting off what I'm already doing. On top of that, it's completely non-viable for any sort of late game strategies.
100% agree about having an easier difficulty in raids. Just as a way to teach new players the mechanics in a safe environment. The one thing keeping me from raiding/dungeoning is messing up and the anxiety of "Oh my God,I'm holding the team back." So if made like a strike where you have infinite revives, it would help new/anxious players a lot
@@blahbqlhwwnwn I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you think that they meant brand new players. I think they're saying new to raiding, not Destiny. Why wouldn't you want a mode that people could go through to teach them the mechanics? I'll assume you already raid with people, how is this going to affect you?
@blahbqlhwwnwn Why not? If new players want to raid,why shouldn't they? Ppl sherpa new players all the time. Doesn't really make sense to alienate or tell someone they can't do the content that they paid for.
@@KINGAARON201in my experience throwing new players into a raid before they've even learned about the basics like how their class works, armour stats, etc leads to them being overwhelmed when faced with what is a step up in combat difficulty and raid mechanics. Not saying new players shouldn't raid, but that maybe new players should get a grasp of the basics first before taking that next step. As for your own concerns about holding the team back, don't worry about it too much. Just join a teaching run, learn mechanics and make mistakes. It's what teaching runs are for.
Menagerie was fantastic. The glitch was not why I love it. (Never used it). The ability to directly choose your loot was why I loved it. The activity was varies enough that I didn't get bored. I ran it dozens of times each week. Whole sessions where just loops. With randoms. Still had fun.
Hear me out: Power level unlocks fragments or class abilities if a new subclass comes. Get to a certain power level: you can start using a certain fragment or some ability. That way the power level still has a meaning to it and a reason to work towards.
i got one. Dungeons and Raids shouldn't carry mechanics over to further encounters as often as they do. Bungie does a good job varying how those mechanics are used in each encounter, but I'd VERY much prefer that mechanics vary wildly per encounter. I think Leviathan is a perfect example of how raids should be done mechanically.
My issue with Obelisk is if you have 2 or 3 hand types that are all tied for being your most played and you play one of them, it still resets the card. I think intentionally balancing between how often you play 2 or 3 hand types should be rewarded with it not resetting but alas that is not the world we live in. I think it's strong on paper because for every hand played of your most played hand type, you're able to play 8 other hands which result in growing it's mult to x2.6 but actually executing on that requires jumping through a lot of hoops. Especially when you get to higher antes and you have a more defined build and restricted playstyle. But I still get how it could be strong.
12:26 bro this is exactly why it needs to be taken out. People dont realize bc they have been literally trained for 10y that they matter. So THEY DONT COME BACK TO THE GAME BC OF SOMETHING THAT DOESNT EVEN MATTER
Honestly, I've just been tired of the negativity around the game this episode, there are absolutely problems with the game and especually with BUNGIE, but you have people complaining about problems that simply don't exist. The content we got this episode was very solid, in fact content-wise it's probably one of the best seasons ever, all three and a half activities were solid. And then there are people moaning about the story, I'll just say it, this episode had one of the best stories we've ever gotten, maybe still behind Seraph for me, but I think it edges out Witch and becomes the second best. It actually resolved Fikrul's plotline, had some stand-out moments witu Misraak's corruption, did justice to Variks. And most importantly, gave us an excellent resolution to Eramis' arc and sements hers as the best character arc in series history. And I've yet to see a single person critique it that isn't simply misunderstanding it or pointing out "plot holes" that can be easily debunked. It should tell you something about the people who hate on Eramis pretty much always respond to my analysis of her character with "I'm not reading all that". And it really frustrates me seeing this notion in the community that her arc is bad, because imagine you're the writers, you make one of your best work, telling a cohesive and profound story about this broken person stuck in the past, fighting against nay-sayers who didn't understand what you were trying to say, and surviving layoffs that threatenned to cut your story short. To finally resolve it in a beutifully solbre way... then the community you made it for says you're a bad writer for a bunch of things that don't exist and because they couldn't be botherred to pay attention to what you actually crafted. It's just so unjust to me. I will happily defend and explain my points to anyone with a sincere desire to debate or learn about this character. But to anyone who replies "I'm not reading all that", congradulations, you're illiterrate.
"Stop rewarding it." It's a real shame that people don't seem to grasp this, or else just don't care. I felt bad unsubscribing from 90% of the Destiny youtubers I used to watch when they all turned into ragebait channels, but it wasn't healthy for me or them or the D2 community to reward that. You are one of the few who has always had the maturity to recognize problems with the game and mistakes Bungie makes without going full "sky is falling" mode / without overlooking the good stuff. I know it's probably hard for content creators facing burnout and feeling tied to their desk, but I do think these videos are bad for the game and its players.
I would play the game so much more if there was an easy mode, raiding is so hard for me but that would be so great We should like start rallying for easy mode man..
Salvation's edge is just brutal for a decent chunk of the playerbase. The constant timers mean one slip up and you wipe, it's crazy hard to teach, verity means sherpas can't even see if the new players are messing up, and the length makes it tiring to run, especially on an LFG. It's a fun raid, but I would never run it again unless I can pair up with 5 other completely competent players. Like one bad player messes up second and verity encounter completely, wasting hours. Not to mention you need already great gear, arguably other raid gear, to do well.
Honestly, minimal combat and all mechanics mode on raids would be a really nice way to get people more comfortable with every encounter. Only spawn the enemies that are needed for each encounter. That doesn't seem like a crazy task for bungie to add and the reward could be like 50 spoils of conquest for a full clear. Idk about the reward but it definitely wouldn't have to give much
5:30 I wanna push back against this whole section a little bit. Some content creators are negative to the point of absurdity. I won't name names. But they only post negativity, and it's to the point that they are just whining. They offer nothing besides complaints. On the flipside, you Datto, along with a few others, typically offer more reasoning about why you feel a certain way. Sometimes you even will discuss potential solutions. A lot different than some people who clearly just want to complain.
I think what would be good for the “Easy Mode” raids is something similar to what Treyarch did in Black Ops 6 Zombies. Directed Mode is a non-endless campaign style version of zombies that, instead of making you figure out the easter egg steps, the game showed you how to do it like how a campaign mission would flow e.g. grab the thing put it in the thing with objective markers and directions. Maybe for the easy mode raids/dungeons, it has reduced loot, but the game shows/tells you how to complete the raid mechanics. Then you can do it normal mode knowing how to do it without the need of a Sherpa.
I don't think it's all your fault, Bruce Banner
W comment
I'M... HULKING... OUT...
Oh my god, he looks exactly like him.
😂😂😂 legit said this the first time I booted Rivsls I’m glad it’s not just me!
Ah ah ah, this is Spruce Granner
Cannot believe datto finally admitted to causing the massive scalping problem the Pokémon tcg is facing. Very proud of you for owning up to this king
is that an actual issue
@@cwj2733 it's been in and out of rotation since the jake paul covid boom
Thank you max yugioh
bandkid humour
Holy. I am just now noticing all the sealed etbs in the background. Jesus
If it was called To Pimp a Witness you would’ve given it a 10
God I’m so glad the fantano/Datto cross over exists
wrong channel!!!
Lmfao, that was good.
I can't believe Datto was the bay harbour butcher all along
@@zylifvBungie never had the makings of a varsity athlete 💯
Guys, please, let's keep the comments civil. I don't wanna make this Granner guy peeved. You would not appreciate his presence when he's peeved.
He might be peeving out!
that's the thing. he's always peeved 😔
This man is about to hulk out any minute now.
😂😂😂 thought i was the only one
Bruce Banner AMA
Does this mean Elitist Datto is Professor Hulk?
Oh shit, he’s hulking out.
I always smile when I see you posting, such a delightful profile picture :>
or maybe not brother, we don't know that
@@SmolShippie lmao
Remember: blaming all your “issues” on one person instead of addressing the root of the issue always solves everything! Don’t think critically!
what if the root issue is one person, like it is....
GET IT TWISTED
You're right, how dare they blame him, he clearly needed all those rare cars and since he's the ceo he is well within his rights to cut costs accordingly
@@AdityaSingh-lp5rp Dawg, thats not what they said and you know it. Parsnips getting axxed wouldnt solve the issues we have atm. It'd just help some of them.
Riiiight, except for when the problem is caused by one person. Dumbass
if gumbo was jumbalaya you would've given it a 10
Still can't believe you said Root of Nightmares was terrible but gave DAMN a 7
I am not familiar with that acronym. Could you please explain it?
@@myles5276kendrick Lamar 🤗
root was stupid easy
easy mode should unironically jsut be dungeon rules. no res tokens, no timers, no enrage
Should be super duper easy but Speedrun challenge
Or at the very least, Narrative Difficulty. For the people that want to experience the story and environment.
Guys don’t get him angry please, I just got a new car
Holtzmann was right, I heard that take and was like "this isn't even an opinion this guy is just factually incorrect"
Vow is the best raid. Argue with a wall. Amazing atmosphere, greet lore and introduces the disciples with the best final raid boss
Couldn’t agree more. Was my first raid (was a late d2 bloomer who started during beginning of witch queen) and anchored me as a player through thick and thin
Disagree
So true!!
Kings fall still clears but I’d say vow is probably second.
100 clears and counting, love it!
Section Cosmodrome.
Good Guardian, m.A.A.d Tower
To Pimp a Engram
WIPE.
Mr. Cayde and the Six Coyotes
SPARROW
I remember you were titan, misusing your consecration. Sometimes I did the same.
@@JonahTwinkletoesAll my life I had the light ninja!
Uh, me and my guardians tryna get it yah bish( ya bish ya bish)
Hit the tower and pick up some bounties yah bish( ya bish ya bish)
3rd party you? Yeah that’s invasive( that’s invasive that’s invasive)
From 1 to 7 my card flawless ya bish( ya bish ya bish)
Dreams of going flawless with my dudes(with my dudes with my dudes), Back when Luna’s Howl would two-tap you( would two-tap you would two-tap you)
I just beat Cross and went to tell my bros( tell my bros tell my bros)
Then I played Wallah that shit hurt me bro( it hurt me bro it hurt me bro)
I’m at 5 games don’t have a mercy ya bish( ya bish yah bish)
think those cheaters round the corner lurking ya bish( ya bish ya bish)
Fried up some crayons just to ease my mind( ease my mind ease my mind)
Cuz if I lose my monitor is dying( my monitor it’s dying mane)
We won the 6th game but I carried yah bish( yah bish yah bish)
Flawless game the competition scary yah bish( yah bish yah bish)
Went to the final round we had to wait (had to wait had to wait)
But then I clutched it up with glacial quake.
It’s goes Titan…then everything else
If it ain’t titan put it on a shelf
The warlocks biting’ THEY TOOK OUR AIR DODGE!!!
but the one who has the bubble lives forever…(YHE ONE IN THE BUBBLE LIVES FOREVER)
And I been puchin all day
Thisa way thata way
Through the Vex and Hive always
Just to say that a hunter must be related to Drake mane that just how I feel.
Thank you I’m going to bed now.
@@MrTJCM6 How Much A Bento Box Cost?
Holtzmann mentioned
i think you mean GUMBO GUY
15:20, I think if the boss had EITHER the random one shot lightning OR the clones it would be totally fine. It's the combo of the two that makes it so frustrating to do
It was in fact, all his fault.
The collabs with Danielle and jez are the best. No drama no negativity just friends being silly and having fun
Jez is hilarious but he’s plenty negative about the game.
@@Hickey702yeah. Full respect to them being friends, but I skip Jez content because I avoid negative content, specifically.
Even the negativity is multiplied so it’s positive in the end.
Vesper's final boss issue imo was more of lack of cover to heal
14:09 Datto has hands, its officially canon.
I've seen them in Mario Golf many times, I didn't think this was up for debate
Watch him play pvp and you will question your conclusion
6:00 The issue is also, that negative videos pull in outside communities WAY more. All the core fans not watch it, but John Random LOVES to click on drama videos and give retention.
It was nice to watch the Funny Destiny Experience with a New Player btw. Zero optimization mindset, zero focus on sweatiness and efficiency. Just havin fun with your buds. Game's still one of the most fun games when you play with your buds who also just wanna have fun.
As far as bungie devs go, if Mercules steps up round 1 thats game
Bro has been hired since 2022. He hasn’t done much
@ImSerg yeah but he's jacked out of his mind
@@ImSerg this just says you don't know the impact he's already had.
@@ImSerg Revision Zero literally altered my brain chemistry, I think that's plenty
@@ImSergbot take
15:06 i genuinely don’t have a problem with the one shot lightning as a concept, but my issue with it is that it’s not visually obvious enough. 9 outta 10 times, i died to the lightning because i didn’t realize i was standing in it
Datto: If I had a boss.....
Danielle: You DO have a boss.
7:40 I honestly want this just because I find having to work with strangers for literal hours to *maybe* get a good gun is not fun to me. Raids, in my opinion, are also less about actual skill and more just following a list of instructions flawlessly, or die instantly and reset.
I agree, VOW is a cool raid but once I got forbearance and cataclysmic I never played it again
Working with and coordinating with other people is a skill though? It's not a shooty shooty mc bang bang skill but it's still a potent skill.
@@Wormy_fren Exactly! My friend actually put his D2 and FFXIV raid clears on his resume to prove he has teamwork skills and the interviewer was impressed.
If you think following a set of instructions to the letter isn't a skill, I don't think you've been in a lot of group projects where your teammates are somehow incapable of grasping the basic concept of your project's prompt.
Joking aside, they're a pretty healthy mix. If you can't follow the instructions, you can't clear the raid. If you don't have the mechanical skill to stay alive in this game amidst enemies shooting you and ability to deal enough boss damage that your team clears it before you're out of res tokens, you can't clear the raid. Honestly the fact you're saying it doesn't seem skill-intensive to you tells me you're probably more than skilled enough at d2 to beat raids easily, and it's the people that give you problems. Ask a more average player and they'll probably tell you that raids are pretty skill-intensive or difficult.
@bbagginsmcswaggins Idk, hitting motionless targets in order isn't that hard. I'd prefer the focus to be on the actual combat, aka the main gameplay, which is why I prefer GMs. But we just get suped up strikes and strike loot instead of story relevant raids with unique loot.
It's why I like raiding in other games but not destiny. The main focus of their raids is combat, positioning, and mitigation, not juggle these three objects and memorize one of fifty symbols.
Hey Datto. I love you and all your stuff and your channel! I just wanted to mention a comment regarding the "thoughts vid vs fun vid":
The thoughts vids are more scripty and podcasty and I can listen while I do things. But the fun vids you have to watch (visual attention) to appreciate all the humor and jokes and experiences, as well as since it's not scripted there can be luls in the talking/audio. So it's also a lot easier to watch you talk about something and provide opinions and thoughts as it's "action" all the time (and I can listen while I do chores or eat or play games). The fun vid is "harder" to watch because I need full attention all the time! Basically saying that it's ALSO because of the format, not just the type or "side" of the argument. For example, THIS video I know will be easy and amazing and informative and entertaining to watch/listen to. Whether it's positive or not, it's more informative ❤
I appreciate your efforts not to be so negative about the game, I wish more creators were like you and understood the long-term consequences of constantly saying your game sucks and is dying. No wonder we have trouble getting new players.
We have trouble getting new players because the game sucks at new player onboarding. Datto literally made a video about this a week ago with his friend who is new to D2. I never realized how things in game that have become muscle memory for me, can be confusing to a new player.
Positivity comes naturally with good content. Positivity may encourage new players to try D2, but it's the quality of the game that makes them stay for the long term. Positivity cannot compensate for the important new player features this game is lacking.
Once they get into the confusing new player experience, no matter how positive the community is, they are likely to leave and never come back.
@ the new player experience is definitely a big reason, but the community’s negativity dissuades them even before that, at step zero. But Destiny’s core gameplay (moving around, shooting your guns, using your subclass) is amazing, and it’s the main reason the game succeeds DESPITE bad onboarding. I feel like I’m in the minority for having faith in Bungie.
@ You can have faith and also raise valid criticism. I don't think that's being negative necessarily. Problems need to be fixed, not ignored to maintain a superficial positivity.
I also want this game to be good, been playing since beta.
@@JimmyYYK9241 There's absolutely valid criticism, and it should not ever go away, but that's a pretty different thing from "DESTINY 2 DYING AGAIN (NOT CLICKBAIT)" 2 hour video from somebody who hasn't played in six seasons. There had to be some give and take.
Or with a more specific example, Jez's video on TFS's story which spent the first forty minutes making mistakes with lore that he literally hasn't paid attention to in years, and he openly admitted he chose to only skim over documents handed to him on a silver platter for the express purpose of producing the video. He did have valid criticism about the narrative of the DLC itself, but it's built on a base of "I don't know because I didn't care to know and am only now pretending to until i find it tiresome to read events I was present for. Also I chose not to finish the story, anyway why do I have unanswered questions?"
@@strad1024 not everyone is plugged into the internet.
I had always interpreted the overdelivery line as “don’t add more content quantity wise than you can deliver consistently” with quality of content being separate from the quantity available.
However in that same breath, a lot of people play destiny in that all-at-once playstyle, so no matter how good the content is it’ll be perceived as a bad release if they blow through all the content in a couple hours.
Curious to see how the Heresy experiment goes
Yea I keep thinking about perennial content. Stuff that people enjoy. It's hard to keep people from not blasting through things. Idk it's a hard thing to drill down on.
Its not your fault. Ya just gotta advocate for the Lion Rampants buff to allow ADS midair like it did with TFS pls thanks datt
Wasn't Menagerie the first 6 person matchmade activity? I think the novelty of that probably doesn't seem as important now but it was a big deal at the time.
Datto can you make a guide on how to get rizz?
step 1: talk to men
He would need to acquire that first. The Rizz economy is struggling.
8:22 Easy Mode: I don't think there should necessarily be an easy mode but a "practice mode" with reduced enemies, no wipe mechanics and no tokens. Then you can focus more on teaching mechanics and boss damage and hopefully will push more comfortability with the core mechanics and teach the basics without the stress of everything else going on
Re: Overdelivery; Hi, I work in a field where scope creep is an ever-present issue to deal with. The customer always tries to get more. They want everything, but we only have so much time and resources to make the thing. So we have to set reasonable goals and achieve those goals consistently. The "don't over-deliver" comment feels a lot more like "don't let our scope creep beyond what we agreed on or what we can handle." Like, yeah, we would all love the best thing ever with endless content, but folks, let's be reasonable. They can only do so much. That being said, I haven't always been happy with what they put out, but we shouldn't assume it's just because they are being told to not over deliver.
Not the Holtzman call, that brought back memories haha. I still remember his weird cat story from the old DCP days
i am so damn happy bungie is returning to the weekly content drop, and i hope that continues into the future. it gives a feeling that things are happening and progressing in the world, instead of everything happening at once and then nothing happening for weeks.
5:34 - Where the hell was this fun video? RUclips is so f-n bad at showing me positive videos my subscriptions upload. I either have to choose between being bombarded with notifications and emails, or not see the videos.
This. Algorithmic thumb on the scale. It’ll tend to favor a negative vid and straight up hide the fun one from your feed.
@@tudeabides it's because people watch the negative videos and ignore the fun videos. The algorithm pushes negative content because it gets more views, which makes the algorithm pushes it even further, cycle repeats.
Agreed. I'm subscribed and have no recollection of the fun video ever being shown. That feels like a major down point for the algorithm.
Like you said. With Power Level. The difference between Destiny 2 and other games is that in those other games, you get some sort of quantifiable reward like stat increases or unlocking some new skill (or in Destiny 2’s case, a Fragment or Aspect for example).
The “Make number go up” is needed for Destiny 2.
the overdelivery thing has been one of the things that caused me to stop talking about games with randoms on the internet because everyone takes it completely literally and it makes me want to pull my own teeth out as they decide to misunderstand everything out of nothing but sheer cynicism and a desire to be angry at anything
You are absolutely correct. I don’t know if this phenomenon is present in other game communities but a loud active portion of the community are players that not only quit but for some reason want to see the game fail. So they watch and feed negative Destiny content so their decision to quit feels justified. It’s a very weird obsession they have that harms the rest of the community.
It's not hard to see why as the proof is in the pudding. The game feels like it's being intentionally held back. The amount of insane stuff they could do but simply don't is absurd. If wasted potential was an IP, it would be Destiny. People take it literally because when I look at the game and then hear that statement, it aligns with reality in a literal way, the game feels like someone was constantly looking over the devs shoulders and going "that's too cool, how are we gonna top that next season? Don't make it"
@@yanisvilla7949from a D1 player and D2 beta player, I’ve never logged on, sat in orbit then quit the game more then right now
It's tiring watching Destiny players shove criticism away as ragebait and handwave the GDC talk as "not that bad." Sorry, but it was Bungie saying the quiet parts out loud. Were there molecules of truth to what Truman said? Sure, but just as much, are things Destiny players mangle history on.
Like, they'll say "Destiny overdelivered with Forsaken." Wrong. Activision gave Bungie two external studios to help them with Forsaken. That's why it had so much content. Then, once they split from Activision, and they were solo, the underdelivery and focus solely on profit started/continued.
Destiny ad a franchise has "overdelivered" only a couple times, and several even of those have caveats. Most of the game's life has been about underdelivery, and to be clear...the "patterns" remark is flat out untrue. If you release GOOD memorable content, it can still be less than a previous release, but if it's powerful enough to leave an impression, then it doesn't matter that it's "less." Paul Tassi, bless his heart, constantly praises Bungie for the speed and quantity of Bungie releasing Destiny content, but all that speedy content has been shoveled out, plowed through, then carved out and chucked in the trash, it ended up being manhours incinerated for quick cash, never to be seen again.
This idea that the GDC talk is overblown needs to stop. Many Destiny players have been unimpressed with the content for a while, and no amount of toxic positivity and denial will fix that now.
@@gengarclefairy3475 sounds like burnout to me my friend. Consider taking a healthy break from time to time
Man it sucks how much positive videos get shit on from a monetary aspect. That was legit my favorite destiny gameplay video in fucking YEARS.
wtf are you talking about with overdleivery? they dropped forsaken, shit popped off, they said "chill with the overdelivery we need to give them mediocre bullshit" and look what we got until witch queen mediocre bullshit. witch queen was a bit too good so they had to drop dogshit lightfall. then they drop final shape and I bet the next 2 mini expansions if added together will be dogshit
HOT TAKE
Destiny 2 stopped being a looter shooter when they radically upgraded supers and light/dark kits. What made Destiny 1 popular was how fun the gun play was and how diverse the weapon models were. Destiny 2 has never advanced beyond the basic module of Destiny 1. Bungie has added more perks and added traits, but why should you use a gun when a melee or infinite grenades can do 3-10x the damage without ammo? Warlocks don't even have to do either because they can make turrets!
Everything at once: I think there IS a right answer. It’s the timegates. People bitch, but they also LOG IN regardless of bitching. Unlike now where we’re seeing weeks without “new releases” where people just aren’t playing.
One of the largest flaws Revenant has face is that people do everything day 1 and then bitch about it for 6 weeks, instead of logging in weekly and only having a few days to shit on everyone’s fun before there’s another bump of things.
Menagerie: Menagerie was fun, but if Menagerie had crafting, it’d have been absolutely dead way faster.
For power levels: I think it would be really cool if power level was changed to be something more like a vanity thing. Instead of getting pinnacle gear, you get a pinnacle quest each week. You need to complete 6 out of 10 possible pinnacle quest items each week to get your weekly pinnacle point. So like a combination of ~5 PvP matches, ~5 strikes, ~5 gambit matches, 1 raid, 1 dungeon, 3 Trials matches, etc. It wouldn't provide any combat boosts, and is simply just a vanity number displayed next to your title that you get to show off. That way you still get that "number go up" feeling that everyone loves, but it doesn't feel like a requirement that needs to be done every week, but there is still good incentive to do so, so you can show off "big number".
And to add, since this kind of lines up with guardian ranks, change guardian ranks to be border that goes around this pinnacle number that changes as your "guardian rank" goes up. So maybe a star pattern border where every time your guardian rank goes up, you get another "star point" on your border around you pinnacle number. So at guardian rank 8 and pinnacle level 150, you would have the number 150 bordered by an 8 pointed star. This would show, (at a glance most importantly) what a players experience level is, somewhat, along with what is essentially their time played.
Boringgggg
Okay but adding that question about the gumbo was super funny, and calling your bud was great too. I really love moments like that in these kind of videos. Great video overall too!
From my experience with trying to onboard people destiny is just a bit of an incoherent game. It’s a looter shooter with superpowers (implying power fantasy) that is also consistently trying to make prestigious and challenging content, the only way they find of doing that (given the premise) is decreasing the players efficacy or introducing unintuitive and awkward mechanics. The end result being 99% of the time people end up being disappointed and dissatisfied with the core gameplay loop and for content like raids might even be put off completely, because more experienced players aren’t necessarily willing to spend more time on every encounter just to Shepard in a new player. That’s just from my experience trying to get new players in.
I don’t think the way to solve this problem is to just make everything easier necessarily. I think more intuitive, solo-able and matchmaking enabled activities could help because at this point you only have strikes, onslaught, dares and world-zones. Half of which are extremely repetitive and world zones are generally just wasted space. Slightly less insistence on “balance” would also help tbh, the friend who was patient enough to actually accumulate some loot worth keeping was still mostly disappointed by almost every weapon they obtained.
Holy shit it’s Holtz and Bruce Banner
For raids, an "Easy Mode" would be a good idea because playing casually has been only a handful of times I've had 6 "friends" online and ready to do a raid. Before 2024 getting 3 or 4 would be much more doable. Just having a mode where fewer than 6 players can sort of run the fight with partial mechanics would be a nice goal let alone being less lethal.
i really have been loving the slow descent datto has taken into just being the destiny anthony fantano, and the lets argue videos have cemented that. ive loved the occasional "nickthony nametano" that he would do for years now
A good alternative to light levels for armor could be defenses and defense types. Bring back character levels and enemy levels, such that the higher the level they are, they deal a certain average amount of damage and have comparable resistances and defences. Instead of having resistance mods, armor could have a certain defense rating against arc or stasis damage, or both etc. Same with projectile, melee or aoe attacks. And instead of having regular stat rolls, they can have multiple rolled modifiers. Like +%# shield recovery, +%# super regen and maybe super rare modifiers like +1 class ability charges to name an idea. Totally not a long time PoE player but it sounds like a cool thing for armor 4.0
It would be nice if raids and dungeon progress did not reset each week.
I have a group of people who can occasionally meet up and do a dungeon or a raid, but not always the entire thing. If progress saved until you complete the activity or you chose to reset the checkpoint then I think that might help the casuals play as they wouldn't have to finish everything in a week. And before you say checkpoint bots are a thing, I'm talking about casuals that probably have not idea those are a thing. It needs to be a built in feature.
something on the easy mode raid topic that was talked about fairly early from your point of view on replaying salvations edge
"i stopped doing it because there's no incentive"
this is why we need a d3, in d1 the community didn't do the raids solely to get every single roll they wanted, they also did them because they were fun asf and simple enough to solo & teach that you could have hero moments; in d2 there are no hero moments and the teaching ability of each raid continues to go down further making newer players reject that content
And a Destiny 3 would change that how?
The reason D2 raids are like that, is because bungie has moved to a "pinnacle of challenge" mindset, and a mindset that all raids must be grander than the last, that wouldn't change with a new game at all, infact likely get worse
@@joshuacroll8534 a d3 will provide an opportunity to reevaluate their current mindset vs what actually needs to happen to draw players in and retain those players in endgame activities
we can't continue to smile and stay in d2, player retention and upfront sales have been declining for years, so has endgame participation when looking at player activity, let alone raiding
this isn't the titanic, we do not have to go down with the ship experiencing a slow and painful descent to our lowest point just for something to change
so if raiding is just as bad in a potential d3, well then that's on bungie for screwing up yet another chance
but waiting for the stagnant water of d2 development to give us the changes we need for this content, is not something i'll be doing and judging by the pure player stats, neither will most people
shared fate from a death destroyed hero moments in raids imo, someone dies, a 2.5 minute wipe timer starts going down it's so dumb. If they want res tokens in raids, don't put the shared fate timer in to punish the team. If they want the shared fate mechanic, make it master mode, no reason for it to be a normal mode thing. also I think that having res tokens really defeated the incentive to maintain a subpar encounter attempt, I hate the res token system in raids because it eliminates hero moments and goes from infinite revives to ~6 depending on who dies and just makes the raids harder than they need to be for raiders. I think the rez tokens should be a master mode thing only and eliminate it for normal mode raids like back in D1
No one took it too literally the fucking game has suffered, has been suffering for a while and this "don't over deliver" statement makes total sense and no heroic moments it all makes sense. Minimum variable product is what they are talking about. Apologetic all you want Datto but this isn't a thing that can be explained away.
I never did the loot bug for menagerie. The thing i really liked about menagerie was how non linear it was and how the level wasnt just a straight line. It would have you go to a random room that would require you to go down all these paths and run through other rooms you might have to go to later on the way to your objective. It would also reward you with a shorter run the better you did. If you did well youd likely only need to see like 2 or 3 rooms while if you did worse then youd have to see all the rooms. When it comes to making a good and repeatable seasonal activity, the more variation the better. Dares is a neat alternative with its random enemy encounters but the problem with it and what can make it a pain to run over and over is the fact that youre always seeing/fighting in the same first 2 rooms with the only variation being the 3 possible boss rooms at the very end. While im sure its probably way easier to make an activity with the level structure of something like dares, i think adding more variety in not only enemies encounters but also level structure on repeated runs is a really healthy thing for the game.
thanks for owning up to the console scalping situation in 2020 up to now. always had a feeling it was you but i’m glad you admitted it
Bungie should give us the option to sync quest progress across characters. I don't want to replay all of act 1 and 2 just to run the exotic mission on a diff character.
To be fair: I think a lot of the ppl rewarding toxic videos are people who haven't played Destiny in a long time if they ever did, and they want to hear opinions justifying their own.
Id say a guided mode in raids would be great. Keeps the mechanics the same, nothing changes, but each player gets assigned a role they can choose before the encounter starts
Once started, each player individually gets their own mission objectives to complete with visual waypoints as to where they need to go as well as what to do. Each objective completion will move on to the next step, entirely teaching in detail how to complete the encounter for their role through active playtime, at their own pace, and on their own with little help from teamates.
If every player does what they are told to do, naturally they will get to boss phase, or complete that first step of the encounter, ect until the encounter is complete.
I would also add additional time to timed objectives so that players are able to read and understand what's going on. Like for example the switching with a partner in the puzzle room at Shuro Chi
The rewards I would say should stay the same as running it without guides. I mean if you have an entirely experienced team, the reward is a faster completion time am I right?
And yes I'm taking inspiration from how BO6 guided mode does with Easter eggs. It's been a massive success the way they handled it.
And of course, guided mode won't be available until after a few days or a week after worlds first has been claimed and Contest Mode is gone
2:00 Except in that same talk, Justin literally did say they went out of their ways to stop devs “with extra cycles” from going above and beyond. They literally stopped devs with nothing better to do from making the game too good. It sounded pretty damning to me.
Exactly. Like the devs can and want to make content, but the managers now will tell them to stop
because they don't always have those free resources.
and if they put in that extra because they have the time and resources, then the players will start expecting that level.
then when they no longer have those resources (shit happens over in development world), the players will get dissapointed even though you're still delivering the "normal" amount and quality of content.
it's a form of expectation management. the point is that as a developer, you should do as much as you *know* you can do CONSISTENTLY, and nothing more.
sure, every once in a while you might be able to do more, but that's not consistent.
@@thatoneguy2274 "shit happens over in development world" you mean shit like massive layoffs? The ones that were caused by the massive drop in revenue due to player retention and population? That in turn were caused by lowered player sentiment due to either the lack of content or the low quality of it? Man, it's a good thing those developers were stopped from overdelivering, cause that would have ruined the game and make everyone quit playing it..
There is a difference between "overdelivering" content and overhyping it.
@@thatoneguy2274so the C-suite stopped the devs from making basic quality of life improvements and bug fixes. Because if they did, we would expect them to be able to make more fixes when they knew damn well they wouldn’t have the resources once they dropped all that talent Sony payed them to keep? Yeah! Checks out to me! 👍
I have made my mark in data for myself by going above and beyond but it has also cost me dearly.
I now stick to my sprints and if I can deliver MORE, AND it can be QA'd AND delivered on time, I do it.
But by me over delivering and it could cause QA or Prod to miss, then no.
That's what they're talking about. The moment you start to go out of scope, you miss deadlines, etc.
When you make him angry enough he turns into… THE BULK
4:14 But I have. I've stopped watching most Destiny tubers/streamers, not because I wanted to, but because the constant lack of morale is draining my soul. I literally came on to talk about this. I want to support my creators, but I do not want to support this cycle. I quit D2 from Vanilla until Season of Opulence because of negativity. Things can suck, and I believe to a point we are responsible of doing what we can, but at the end of the day, it is the developers themselves that need to seek out those opinions. I think a monthly, hell even tri-monthly video containing all the grievances would suffice. It's gone overboard imo, but ymmv.
Balatro feels like it’s about alot of slight lane changes, so obelisk feels like swerving a three lanes and not looking at incoming traffic. It’s hard to prepare for and hard to find the tools to properly adapt to.
Number Go Up™️ should only be in regards to your armor stats. I think it would be cool if infusion could raise your armor stats based on some equation
absolutely love these videos, huge breath of fresh air
menagerie was so good man, season 7 was soo good. just seeing that picture flooded me with the good memories of that season and that time in my life. i love this game man
From the title, I was half expecting it to just be an argument ASMR
It's hard to say Menagerie was overhyped when it's core design philosophy was recreated with a watered down version for Season of the Dawn and Season of the a Lost. It's also the design philosophy behind Dares of Entirety.
One opening encounter into seven (7!) possible secondary encounters with completion time and difficulties scaling based on your teams ability ending in one of three rotating bosses.
That's a formula that really pushed the feeling of Playlist stagnation deep. You are seeing so many different patterns with different enemy factions. And if it didn't work Bungie wouldn't have given us Diet Menagerie, Cherry Menagerie, and Menagerie Zero Sugar
8:02 I guess this depends on what bungie wants to achieve. Currently as it stands not a whole lot of people play hard endgame content like raids or dungeons for the same reasons(teach,no one to play with, people quit early, etc). Does bungie want more people playing higher tier content or do they want to maintain the difficulty of the endgame content. If it’s the first then they should add a guided mode. Everything stays the same except there arrows pointing you to where you need to go to dunk a buff or something.
Hearing Holtzmann on the phone is so good. Hope he's doing well.
Little datto karate pictures are too precious
thank you for this gift
On the Menagerie bit, Lightfall had a similar bug for zoning out and back in for the chest to farm loot too, but still is classified as the worst areas, activities, and worst expansion so its not that the loot is what made it good or bad, its the actual activity. Menagerie was good for what it was.
We also got a similar customizable loot system via Alchemy and its not everyone's favorite either, so again it wasn't the loot or rewards, it was the activity, which was good.
It’s good seeing all these new videos from you bro
Don’t over deliver wasn’t what they really ment but they then proceeded to under deliver…… 🤷♂️
Something I just experienced I wouldn't hate to see in the Raids is from BO6 Zombies, a Guided Mode that walks you through how to do the Easter Eggs. Something like that to learn the Raids or at least help with learning.
8:29 Since we're arguing and such, I'm going to come out with an elitist take and say that if you need an easy mode for dungeons and raids you need to learn how to actually play the game and come back. Dungeons and raids are already easy for the most part. If you want easier content you can go do playlist strikes, the game is easy enough. (Also we already have an easy mode for raids, it's called Root of Nightmares.)
The issue with Salvation's Edge is the 4th encounter. It has nothing to do with the rest of the raid, sometimes it's just hard to see which symbol is what while avoiding all the damage and it punishes minor mistakes with a wipe. It honestly looks like Bungie had finished 4 encounters total, but after the complaints that RoN was too easy they decided to go back and make SE harder and overcorrected. That's why the 4th encounter doesn't even look like it's from the same raid as the rest of the encounters.
Datto do you think something like the guided mode in the new COD Zombies could be a bridge to raid and dungeon easy mode? If you don't know, guided mode basically caps the amount of rounds you can go through as you do an Easter egg, and shows you how to do each step of the Easter Egg quest. The only real limit on rewards in this case is there are more exclusive cosmetics that can only be earned from doing a "real" Easter egg run
I'll probably update my comment as he goes through the points, but:
1.) This is extremely easy to fix, literally just have extra content that was able to be produced after the main bundle was finished prominently labeled as such in it's own category on release teasers and whatnot
Obelisk struggles due to how much you benefit from developing a consistent, focused build. Sure, there's times when it works out, but at the same time, if I've built my deck around a certain strategy, the value you get from Obelisk almost never outweighs the value I lose from pivoting off what I'm already doing.
On top of that, it's completely non-viable for any sort of late game strategies.
100% agree about having an easier difficulty in raids. Just as a way to teach new players the mechanics in a safe environment.
The one thing keeping me from raiding/dungeoning is messing up and the anxiety of "Oh my God,I'm holding the team back." So if made like a strike where you have infinite revives, it would help new/anxious players a lot
Counter to this, new players shouldn't be in raids.
@@blahbqlhwwnwn I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you think that they meant brand new players. I think they're saying new to raiding, not Destiny. Why wouldn't you want a mode that people could go through to teach them the mechanics? I'll assume you already raid with people, how is this going to affect you?
@blahbqlhwwnwn Why not? If new players want to raid,why shouldn't they? Ppl sherpa new players all the time. Doesn't really make sense to alienate or tell someone they can't do the content that they paid for.
@@KINGAARON201in my experience throwing new players into a raid before they've even learned about the basics like how their class works, armour stats, etc leads to them being overwhelmed when faced with what is a step up in combat difficulty and raid mechanics.
Not saying new players shouldn't raid, but that maybe new players should get a grasp of the basics first before taking that next step.
As for your own concerns about holding the team back, don't worry about it too much. Just join a teaching run, learn mechanics and make mistakes. It's what teaching runs are for.
I don't even blame datto but since he just dropped my opinion, I guess it's his fault
Menagerie was fantastic. The glitch was not why I love it. (Never used it). The ability to directly choose your loot was why I loved it. The activity was varies enough that I didn't get bored. I ran it dozens of times each week. Whole sessions where just loops. With randoms. Still had fun.
Hear me out:
Power level unlocks fragments or class abilities if a new subclass comes.
Get to a certain power level: you can start using a certain fragment or some ability.
That way the power level still has a meaning to it and a reason to work towards.
i got one. Dungeons and Raids shouldn't carry mechanics over to further encounters as often as they do. Bungie does a good job varying how those mechanics are used in each encounter, but I'd VERY much prefer that mechanics vary wildly per encounter. I think Leviathan is a perfect example of how raids should be done mechanically.
My issue with Obelisk is if you have 2 or 3 hand types that are all tied for being your most played and you play one of them, it still resets the card. I think intentionally balancing between how often you play 2 or 3 hand types should be rewarded with it not resetting but alas that is not the world we live in. I think it's strong on paper because for every hand played of your most played hand type, you're able to play 8 other hands which result in growing it's mult to x2.6 but actually executing on that requires jumping through a lot of hoops. Especially when you get to higher antes and you have a more defined build and restricted playstyle. But I still get how it could be strong.
12:26 bro this is exactly why it needs to be taken out. People dont realize bc they have been literally trained for 10y that they matter. So THEY DONT COME BACK TO THE GAME BC OF SOMETHING THAT DOESNT EVEN MATTER
Honestly, I've just been tired of the negativity around the game this episode, there are absolutely problems with the game and especually with BUNGIE, but you have people complaining about problems that simply don't exist. The content we got this episode was very solid, in fact content-wise it's probably one of the best seasons ever, all three and a half activities were solid.
And then there are people moaning about the story, I'll just say it, this episode had one of the best stories we've ever gotten, maybe still behind Seraph for me, but I think it edges out Witch and becomes the second best. It actually resolved Fikrul's plotline, had some stand-out moments witu Misraak's corruption, did justice to Variks. And most importantly, gave us an excellent resolution to Eramis' arc and sements hers as the best character arc in series history. And I've yet to see a single person critique it that isn't simply misunderstanding it or pointing out "plot holes" that can be easily debunked. It should tell you something about the people who hate on Eramis pretty much always respond to my analysis of her character with "I'm not reading all that". And it really frustrates me seeing this notion in the community that her arc is bad, because imagine you're the writers, you make one of your best work, telling a cohesive and profound story about this broken person stuck in the past, fighting against nay-sayers who didn't understand what you were trying to say, and surviving layoffs that threatenned to cut your story short. To finally resolve it in a beutifully solbre way... then the community you made it for says you're a bad writer for a bunch of things that don't exist and because they couldn't be botherred to pay attention to what you actually crafted. It's just so unjust to me.
I will happily defend and explain my points to anyone with a sincere desire to debate or learn about this character. But to anyone who replies "I'm not reading all that", congradulations, you're illiterrate.
AINT NO WAY DATTO BROUGHT BACK HOLTZMANN
"Stop rewarding it." It's a real shame that people don't seem to grasp this, or else just don't care. I felt bad unsubscribing from 90% of the Destiny youtubers I used to watch when they all turned into ragebait channels, but it wasn't healthy for me or them or the D2 community to reward that. You are one of the few who has always had the maturity to recognize problems with the game and mistakes Bungie makes without going full "sky is falling" mode / without overlooking the good stuff. I know it's probably hard for content creators facing burnout and feeling tied to their desk, but I do think these videos are bad for the game and its players.
Obelisk is like wardcliff coil. 99% of the time its pretty much unusable, but find that 1% and you are falling in love
I would play the game so much more if there was an easy mode, raiding is so hard for me but that would be so great
We should like start rallying for easy mode man..
Literally read my mind about easy mode Datto. Thank you for talking about it!!
Salvation's edge is just brutal for a decent chunk of the playerbase. The constant timers mean one slip up and you wipe, it's crazy hard to teach, verity means sherpas can't even see if the new players are messing up, and the length makes it tiring to run, especially on an LFG. It's a fun raid, but I would never run it again unless I can pair up with 5 other completely competent players. Like one bad player messes up second and verity encounter completely, wasting hours. Not to mention you need already great gear, arguably other raid gear, to do well.
Love the back - to - back fight question, laughing so much
Honestly, minimal combat and all mechanics mode on raids would be a really nice way to get people more comfortable with every encounter. Only spawn the enemies that are needed for each encounter. That doesn't seem like a crazy task for bungie to add and the reward could be like 50 spoils of conquest for a full clear. Idk about the reward but it definitely wouldn't have to give much
5:30 I wanna push back against this whole section a little bit. Some content creators are negative to the point of absurdity. I won't name names. But they only post negativity, and it's to the point that they are just whining. They offer nothing besides complaints. On the flipside, you Datto, along with a few others, typically offer more reasoning about why you feel a certain way. Sometimes you even will discuss potential solutions. A lot different than some people who clearly just want to complain.
You know things are getting real when the OG D1 planet destiny squad hops into a call to talk food 😅 loved it! Go Crawdads
I think what would be good for the “Easy Mode” raids is something similar to what Treyarch did in Black Ops 6 Zombies. Directed Mode is a non-endless campaign style version of zombies that, instead of making you figure out the easter egg steps, the game showed you how to do it like how a campaign mission would flow e.g. grab the thing put it in the thing with objective markers and directions.
Maybe for the easy mode raids/dungeons, it has reduced loot, but the game shows/tells you how to complete the raid mechanics. Then you can do it normal mode knowing how to do it without the need of a Sherpa.
I knew he was calling Holtz lol!!! Oh man the days of DCP and 3D Doritos 🥹 Good times, glad he’s doing well 👍