How Taika Waititi and the Russos Destroyed Thor | Video Essay
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- Опубликовано: 13 ноя 2018
- Thor got Russo'd... but he also got Waititi'd first. How did these creators successfully break the God of Thunder in one incredibly tragic arc?
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I may have to make an analysis video about the brilliance of this video's title
I would LOVE that. I've been following your videos for a while, great stuff
Wait what? What is so great about it that you need to make an analysis video about it
I love your analysis video on The Last Jedi and Infinity War!
Marvel: "Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover in history"
FullFat: "I want to be Tracer"
Schaffrillas: "I'm already Tracer"
Analysiception
Thor went from the worst written avenger to arguably the deepest, best character in the MCU in just two movies
You just gotta take all his toys away and watch him cry like a baby. Problem solved.
I thought that was done in the first Thor film directed by none other than Sir Kenneth Branagh. Yah know he had his hammer, his planet, people, friends, and powers taken away from him in that film. He had to humble himself to be King and that was accomplished in one film....the first Thor film. It didn't need Taika Waititi to bring his "wilderpeople" to the MCU. YAY, nice work there Waititi ya bring that woman from Wilderpeople to play basically the same character and Sam Neill to play basically the same character and voila, you have "brilliance"? That's not brilliance. As much as I love Sam Neill, Waititi basically shat on the rest of the MCU and the character of Banner/Hulk to make himself look impressive. I loved Banner in the first two Avengers films. He was the Banner I loved from Bill Bixby's version, however, in one film and into Infinity War he was reduced to a comic perversion of the character. YAY for Waititi. He's overrated much. And now there's talk he may be replacing James Gunn for GOTGV3.....not on this or any other planet. James Gunn should be able to finish what he started. As for Waititi and that bastardized version of Thor....NO. THANK. YOU!
...What? What 'depth" is there to his character in Ragnorak? The funny banter? That's "depth" to you? He was an emotionless cookie cutter jokester like the rest of the cast. He never batted an eye when his people were mostly slaughtered, didn't give two shits that his friends were gutted. He just kept on joking around like Banner, or Hera, or the other random throw away characters. The film is funny as all hell, but it is far from anything resembling "depth." It is more along the lines of funny but inappropriate for the subject matter when pertaining to the character and source material.
@@diannebdee The first film is and always will be my preferred adaptation of the character. As funny as ragnarok was, it was inappropriate for the subject matter and the weight it should have been given emotionally.
@@PathBeyondTheDark I loved the first two Thor films. The first because I adore Kenneth Branagh, the second because I'm a science geek and I loved all the traveling between the various dimensions. But yes Thor was already a fish out of water in the first film. He sort of got his comeuppance in that film when Odin banished him to Midgard. There was no need for Ragnarok and I feel Waititi did the character no good service. Banner was a punchline, not a valid character the way he was in the first two Avengers films.
after watching endgame i can say i have the body of a norse god
Lmfaoo
For real! I was thinking i might be turning into the dude.. Now im like fuck im thor
Well it's cold there, having some fat is beneficial ;)
I know who I'm cosplaying this year!
Very true
I'm not a hater, but Captain Marvel needs to get Russo'd too.
cmike123 well according to Jeremy Jahns, she does in Endgame (without giving any spoilers).
@@TimLSim God I hope so. I'm staying away from these damn reviewers lol. I'm super excited for Friday
Tim Sim May I have link to review please?
Jabari Jefferson ruclips.net/video/dbsGMZh3pRQ/видео.html
I liked her but a more in depth exploration of her PERSONALITY not backstory.
Thor's depression in Endgame really deepens his character. We learn that he may be a god, but he is just as human as the rest of us. It also sets up a redemption arc for him.
Since Hemsworth signed for two more movies, it will be interesting to see the "redeemed" Thor and see if he because a whole character. Because, sorry Thor fans, to me prior to Ragnarok he was always a pompous @sshole. Very unlikable.
@iM HaZY What's wrong with that? It's part of an arc (that is also in the comics) they're not replacing him.
no, it makes a literal joke out of him, jeez these mcu fanboys are scum
@iM HaZY Nice argument.
@iM HaZY No, I was being sarcastic.
Was expecting a near 20 minute rant of how the character of Thor was ruined, was instead treated to a well thought out literary examination in the changes that were made for the better. Much like Waititi and the Russos, expectation subverted, well done.
thank you man
Yeah instead of making Thor more serious and have him do cool Thor shit, they have his character get undercut at every opportunity. How can a guy who controls lightning get taken out by trash people that use tasers? Thor was still a badass without his hammer. In the comics Thor fought other gods for hundreds of years trying to become worthy and now he’s demoted to a guy that trash people fuck up. The movie also introduced a major Thor weakness. The taser neck thing still knocked out Thor when he turned into odinforce Thor and the whole final battle of the movie is fucked when we see machine guns harming the army. When I think seal team 6 could handle a job better than the super hero’s I’m watching you know the film fucked up. Oh and I don’t think a movie named ragnorock should be a comedy. It’s a story about Thor losing his father and home and we have dickhead rock guys cracking jokes not even 1 second later.
@@dain6492 cool
I walked in this thinking he was using the term "destroyed" as a bad thing.Glad i stuck around.
The only character truly destroyed by Waititi and the Russos was Loki. He was totally out of character in these last two films. Nothing more than a comic relief...
*VERY MINOR ENDGAME SPOILER*
Thor's portrayal in Endgame absolutely lines up with your analysis here. He finally lost, in a really big, reality altering way, and he sinks into a depression, becomes a reclusive drunk, and physically lets himself go as a result.
yeah i gotta love when a hero in any story is known for something big like with thor its his godhood and the fact that he can rarely be beaten his physical state and arrogance as a consequence of everything gets beaten down to the core like he did in endgame its amazing
It REALLY pissed me off the way that Thor was treated in Endgame. Completely disgraced the character.
@@alsoknownas875 He can't be OP all the time with no failures. Then he would be like Superman. Overpowered, and boring. Thor in the cinematic universe has had years of character development, with great supporting characters and a solid storyline so far. He has completely hit rock bottom, and the only way it could get any worse for him is if he dies. In Endgame, he is redeemed (a bit), and he can only go up from there. This is how you make a good character.
The directors purposely made Thor look like a joke because they wanted fan following for captain marvel after captain america black widow and iron man’s departure Thor and hulk both were destroyed by russo brothers because Thor and Hulk had more fan following than captain marvel by making Thor look fat and hulk like a lazy scientist fans would move to another character but not me it can be not us it depends on you all to make it not us but not us. A small nerf i guess
@@solitary6836 That's untrue. I just looked up what you said and no sources came up for that. Please provide a source before spreading your opinion as fact, it's misleading. Thor gaining weight is a part of his character arc. He has depression and anxiety, as seen in Endgame. He's lost everything. Him putting on some pounds is one of the more logical things that could have happened, considered most of his people and his brother were slaughtered in front of him, and he failed to prevent Thanos from winning in Infinity War. It's not some scheme to make people like Captain Marvel. I don't even like her. It's called good writing and storytelling, and character arcs are a part of that.
"his relationship with loki is better then ever"
well that didn't last long lmao
Visces like 1 hours tops
Read more comments get you a dislike. She left you bc of your attitude.
@@anagramconfirmed1717 How is making a "Read more" comment a bad attitude?
Visces it shows how self-absorbed and rude you are. “What I have to say is so witty and clever, in order to read it people are going to have to take an additional action.” What you have to say isn’t important enough to attempt to compel action, pal. Your attitude sucks.
WarWin nah, buddy.
Chris approached the Russos before/during Infinity War and wanted to make sure Thor continued the arc that started in Ragnarok as he was proud of the progress they made with the character.
loganjames210 i read Chris Helmsworth wanted End GameThor to follow this path based on what he started in Ragnarok.
@@TorusLotus yea :/
@@TorusLotus ..but it seems he will continue his arc in gotg vol 3
@@TorusLotus endgame made him better
@@TorusLotus They didn't even come close to it. It was a direct continuation of what happened in Raganorak. He lost his world, half his people, then another half his people, then half the universe. He lost and realized he was so close to actually winning and saving everyone. It broke him. Rightfully so.
Everyone may laugh at a line like "I went for the head." But it's not a funny line. It's a deeply sad one. And that's the moment you should know that something has snapped in him.
I won't go too deep into spoiler territory, but you see several moments in Endgame where he starts to pick himself up and become the god of thunder we all love again.
Hahaha you just piss off somebody with that title, he probably thought you where going to talk bad about Thor XD
I just don't like dishonest clickbaity titles to be honest. :p
I was ready to be pissed thinking they were going to talk bad about Waititi.
That's what's known as clickbait.
Yeah, I was worried. I love this Thor
That's what I actually coming to the video lol
Thor doesn't believe in no-win scenarios?
That explains why his son James T. Kirk doesn't either....
I'm glad someone got that
@@FullFatVideos He should have hacked the programme to save his ship, the Kobayashi Maru. That opening scene of Infinity War was depressing.
@@FullFatVideos I got it. I couldn't have come up with a joke that good this early in the morning though, so kudos to Chris.
Waititi and the Russos made me love Thor.
but I do hate Waititi for what he did to Hulk. Hulk didn't deserve the treatment he got in Ragnarok and Infinity War
@@a-drewg1716 Agree!
@@a-drewg1716 just wait , hulk is undergoing some character development.
@@a-drewg1716 they're keeping for the endgame.
Hazelsshi _ facts he’ll be big next movie
I like to think that Thor, at the beginning on Endgame, has gone into a kind of personal exile because he feels responsible for not preventing the snap.
Definitely possible. I feel like we have seen the least of him in the trailers. I do wonder if he will go looking for any remaining asgardians though .
Thor Skywalker
Scevosaur Thats exactly what happened, not even a matter of personal belief. He became an alcoholic that was horrified of even the mention of Thanos’ name.
They flat out stated that this was happening. Not much to figure out there
You got it right, bro
If not for Taika, it would be difficult for Russo's to make him a coolest character....The Rainbow bridge shot while Immigrant song playing in the background built the shot Bring Me Thanos..
Iron man was phase 1
Captain America phase 2
Thor phase 3
mainly everything underrated comment
+CaptainCre3pzz Ned phase 4 nigga
I think I remember Emergency Awesome predicting how that was how it was going to be. I’m so happy that this was the case.
Spiderman phase 4?
Matt Folkerts Spiderman is already an good character
Thor being Waititi’ed and Russo’d was perfect. Thor became the best avenger
CorkBen waititied and russod does not make any sense at all.... it’s not clear as what happened to them.
He became a dumb comedy character for blue pill normies.
@@Dangerous2099 you mean they took this over the top boring as fuck egotistical character and give him a heart suffering and humanity something the movie goer can connect with... Don't know about you but I've never been a king or a god of thunder so I can't connect with Thor in his first two movies. Just saying
FYI I liked the first two Thor movies but now because of Ragnarok and infinity he's a much more interesting connectible character.. fucking blue pill comedian remember most comedians hide pain behind jokes
Strongest* avenger ;)
@@user-in8tk2ty7c Worthy of r/MurderedByWords ?
i would also like to credit Stephany Folsom for Thor. she was the one that did the outline/story beats for Ragnarok, but due to industry standards she wasnt allowed credit. i met her and her husband at a film festival in 2018, and they spoke to me about how Disney fought the WGA because of some.outdated standard that only allowed 3 writer credits on a film. sadly they didnt "fully win" but it forced the WGA to change their rule and allow more than 3 writers credits on a feature film.
PS she also wrote Toy Story 4, and was in the process of finishing it, when were talking. her husband kept on gushing about TS4 and how great of a writer she was.
I hate being clickbaited. But it somewhat softens the blow when the content isn't vapid and superficial. Really enjoyed this.
NickGreyden vapid and superficial basically perfectly explains this vid 😂
Also, you weren't technically clickbaited.
This is not clickbait
you weren't click baited, you just thought the title meant something else. Don't worry, i thought the title meant that thor's character was ruined too. but it isn't lickbait, its just misinterpretation
I guarantee 95% of those dislikes are people who pressed the video thinking it was a hate video disliked and left without watching ...
It helps me sleep at night yeah
I was gonna do this honestly
@@darthtroller thank you for your honesty.
@@scytheluna ya welcome
Maybe the guy shouldn’t have misleading titles?
I love that they dropped Jane bullshit love story, and went balls to the wall.
Thor was pretty much an 'okay' avenger to like, he had a few good moments here and there. But after Ragnarok and IW, he became amazing.
waititi: I took everything from thor haha. he has nothing left! no-one can take more away from him than I did!!
russo brothers: hold my beer
hahaahah
Thanos: hold your brother's body
Russos: “you missed a spot”
Anthony Russo :- (smiling at joe) Bro we got some killings to do....
Didn't know it was a competition
At first, I thought this video would be a critique to Thor and his MCU storyline, but it turned out to be a magnificent analysis about the last two movies in which he appeared. I loved it, here is my subscription :)
and here is my thanks :) x
Odyn "Who are you? God of thunder or god of hamerr?"
Thor:Hmm... God of Axe
I'm aware that this is a joke, but it's also a thing people take seriously so... Just because he does not need a weapon to have power, does not mean that having a weapon is not beneficial.
@putsome basilonit Yeah he had them for emergencies
It's funny, because the I've grown up with the real Norse deity titled not "Thor the thundergod" but literally "Thor with The Hammer".
So whenever I watch that scene I want to interject Odin with a "well, actually, yeah kinda!"
Kudos for actually recognizing the contributions of the writers.
But did you notice he mixed up the first and last names for the infinity war writers
I think the whole "fate wills it so" speech is less about Thor hoping to manipulate fate to his will and more of Thor searching for some reason for why he survived when so many have died. He needs to believe there's a reason why he's alive and if he believes it's to serve this purpose, that's enough to keep him moving forward instead of breaking entirely apart.
Otherwise, I agree with this video on the whole. Good watch!
"I improvised that number, could be anything, could be 20 per cent". I lost it!
same it fucking killed me
It was the Taikest thing to say.
Please make a follow up based on end game
I'd love to see what Taika Waititi could do with other Marvel characters. I'd personally love to see this direction taken with Paul Rudd's Ant-Man.
Personally I think he should have worked on Ant Man over Ragnarok. Ant Man is a ridiculous concept, the character is flexible and the stakes are low. His style would have brought a touch of life to it.
Ragnarok as a base story is high stakes, maybe even the highest aside from Inf War/End Game. Waititi's style ended up undercutting what should have been meaningful story beats with, in my opinion, terrible attempts at lightening the mood. For example, the ending of Ragnarok, with Korg's quip after Asgard goes boom, would be like if a side character popped a one-liner five seconds after half the universe got dusted.
The MCU is notorious for weird attempts at humour, but I think Ragnarok is particularly egregious because overall it is a very good movie, with a pretty good storyline, great character development (for the most part) and great design (colour, costumes, sets etc). It's adventurous when it should be, it's dark when it should be, and the actors do a good job of portraying their characters in the situations they are in. It's NEARLY a great movie. It was so close to being one of my favourites of the MCU, and for that I hate it. Does that make sense?
Oh God no don't let that man ruin anything else. He already made Thor essentially act like Spider-Man, turned one of the most badass alien rock monster warriors to exist into a dumb gag character who hands out fucking flyers for battles, reduced Hulk to a giant man-baby, took away the ability for one Marvel's biggest traitors (Miek) to even speak, and combined 2 of Marvel's most serious/grounded/darkest stories from the past 2 decades into a damn comedy movie. This man needs to be kept as far away from Marvel as possible. What takes do you really want to see from him? Do you want him to turn Wolverine, Punisher, and Daredevil into kid-friendly comic relief characters the way he did Hulk and Korg? Who else do you want to see this man ruin? I could see his style working decently well for Ant Man though (only Scott. We still should have had a more serious version with Hank first)
And the character is the most popular it’s ever been honestly
He went from a middle tier MCU character to fucking top tier
@@FullFatVideos to be honest I thought he was always cool but with infinity war he actually stole the show, his whole arc which I felt was second to Thanos' in length, was completely brilliant and he was my favourite character of that movie
no. Thor doesn't need spoiled, loser fans. He was always great with his intelligent fan base and fanboys.
Thanos seriously. You just had to do it.
@@worthlessmutts9598 zip it Thanos
Whose here after they ruined Thor completely in Love & Thunder?
Clearly not a Mary Sue.
Lost his home, all of his best friends, his GF, his brother, his sister he never knew, his parents, his hammer, his eye and his pride to end up being the most powerful hero in the MCU.
I dont think you know what a mary sue is. Going through alot of shit doesn't give a character any flaws. If anything it just gives the character more reason to have flaws.
@@hunbi1875
He did have flaws. Arrogance being the biggest one. Trusting his brother being another.
Even when he buried his axe in Thanos' chest he had to boast to Thanos and allowed the snap to happen when he should have aimed for the head or the arm and cut it off or delivered a finishing blow instead of giving Thanos an "I told you so".
@@hunbi1875
Also not being able to prevent those losses are his failures. Along with failing to protect Nidavellir from Thanos.
@@hunbi1875 i think you dont know what a mary sue is. how ironic, isn't it, boy
@@BruvahSulaiman you are 100% right
Before you immediately downvote the vid, the click-baity title refers to how Thor's characterization has been massively improved upon by way of stripping him of all but his fundamental self. His overarching journey has so far cost everything: loss of family, allies, & friends, his people & the home he failed to protect, & the defining embodiment of his power & station.
Thor’s developed into a conflicted, flawed, & consequentially, a more compellingly realized character w new found narrative potential for what’s to come.
He isn't even ginger!
The contents of the video are why I gave it a downvote. Thor Ragnarok was garbage.
Lodatz Cool
From the title I thought you was some guy who didn’t know what he saying and just came to look at all the comments but man ended up watching the video and it was worth it
I did exactly the same
Watching this post Loki that line "Thor still thinks he's the master of his own destiny" really hits.
Ikr😭
well this aged badly
The writers for infinity war are Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
You said Steven Markus and Christopher Mcfeely
Can't tell if that was a legit mistake, or intentional.
I thought I heard something odd there, but honestly didn't bother to check. Figured I wasn't paying enough attention lol
Good job
These are their fusion forms, that's why they are so skillful.
And he said it with their actual names on the screen....
"Stephen Markus and Christopher McFeely" ..... seems about right 😂😂👀
Fuck I was about to comment that🤣🤣🤣
I can't complain. I do the same thing alot.
lol not the first time I've seen it done.
Hahaha this video didn’t age well, I literally thought he was gonna talk about how they destroyed thor as a character 💀😩
“Well, he’s a spoiled brat”. First film resolved that arc. No need to humiliate him in the later films. Disney has ruined the character.
A very important part of Thor's fate speech is at the end, and not from Thor. Rocket says 'Well, I could lose a lot', reminding the audience that Thor is only seeing himself in these events and forgetting the identities of everyone else who is counting on him. The true cost of being a superhero... it is not about you, it is about the people you are standing in for, and they (half of them anyway) have everything left to lose. It may be cliche, but I don't think there have been many characters better set up for a hero's sacrifice like Thor.
And indeed I think that this is something he may come to terms with in A4. Having been pseudo-responsible for the deaths of both the Asgardians and the general people of the universe now, at his lowest of lows.
His death from thanos could cause him to die and come back as True rune King Thor, come back stronger too! After cap weilds his hammer and kills thanos. ;)
This is a great video.
What I loved personally about Infinity War’s handling of Thor upon leaving the theater was the way it showed how Thor really uses humor as his strongest facade. In that same monologue, he says “Well, he hasn’t fought me twice.” And then within twenty seconds we uncover the part of the monologue you focused on. It recontextualizes Ragnarok and shows us that Thor’s lighthearted demeanor is a mask he wears to hide genuine suffering. And it made the transition from comedy to tragedy between Ragnarok and Infinity War feel natural and even effortless.
Yeah and then when you watch ragnarok it makes sense and you understand why he's suddenly more jokier than before.Which before Infinity war kinda didnt make sense to me.
I went directly from Ragnarok to Infinity war, and i must say that they made Thor so BADASS! Like people complain about the fact that he's jokey in Ragnarok, but you get glimpses of his actual suffering between the jokes. And then in Infinity war he's pushed even further and his facade collapses for a moment, but then at the end he gets a badass fucking ending. While still suffering.
Edit: They made Thor, at least for me, go from one of the most forgettable characters of the MCU to one of the best ones.
@@kompanjonac he said he used the joke to mask his tragedy.can`t you read
@@alshahriar6230 Yes I can.Thats why I'm agreeing with him and saying that now he's behaviour in Ragnarok makes more sense after that scene in IW.Read comment again you didnt understand .
"you've been officially pardoned.... from LIFE"
funniest line in the movie imo
Ohohoho. Just wait 'til you see Endgame. No facade. Like at all.
"What more could I lose" hahaha, his god body
ruclips.net/video/GiU6mvzUvQE/видео.html
Now THIS is how you analyse a character and a movie. You guys took "reviewing" to the next level. Well done.
wow thanks man!
*Sees Title
*Kowalski, Analysis*
Thor when he finally hits Thanos reminds me of Oberyn Martell. Both were close to avenging their families. Had the enemy at his mercy but hubris and the need to make a mockery of the enemy gave the enemy the time, chance and means to retaliate and kill in return.
i loved Taika Waititi's ragnarok. Was one of the most enjoyable marvel films
SuperSuperdude88 it was a complete joke
@@MySHAQ18 you're a joke. Goteem
MySHAQ18 that's why it was enjoyable.
@@MySHAQ18 yeah, thats why it's so enjoyable
@@MySHAQ18 The whole movie didn't take itself seriously, maybe you should've loosened up a bit white watching it.
Btw I just realised that Hela is probably what Thor would have become had he been made king in Thor 1
So, Loki asshol-ish behavior saved him from himself ultimately. Wait does it mean if Hela had a Loki sister she could've learned humility???
You're exactly right. It makes sense why Odin stripped him of his power and sent him to Earth, doesn't it? Odin didn't pay attention and let Hela go too far down the path of arrogance and power until it was too late to save her. Odin had to teach Thor that lesson of humility and having power in peace before it was too late.
@@DannyDomenic Exactly. It's worth noting that Odin cast him out after Thor wanted to destroy Jotenheim, as Hella wanted to do with every realm.
Of course the creators didn't know then that Ragnarok would give hin a sister, but it's a nice touch if we want the movies to make sense
It is and I believe Odin was expecting that as well, he commissioned a "god-killing" weapon named "stormbreaker" from the elves, I believe Odin expected Thor to become bad and he would have to kill him and try again with Loki...
I wonder how to explain why Odin couldn't remove Hela's powers in an attempt to teach her humility.
Dude, you confused the hell out of me and, after reading the comments, a lot of other people too. I was mad at first because of the title because Ragnarok is my favorite Marvel movie. But then, you pulled the "this video is dedicated to Stan Lee rip" and I was like "huh?"
Anyways, good video dude.
thor was literally ruined as a character in thor ragnarok thor cracked jokes while ragnarok aka the death of Asgard was happening the god of thunder got knocked out by a shocker device in his own movie his character went from op to tragic
Saame
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Your line about Thor getting dreads after his gap year has taken on a whole new meaning 😂
also, he called it annihilation instead of endgame
One thing that bugs me about Thor: Ragnarok is how his best friends for over a thousand years, the Lady Sif and the Warriors Three, are brutally killed and their deaths don't phase him a bit.
soon as I seen that I said here comes the Hollywood treatment
Lady sif did not die
By the title, I was completely ready to write an argument like, "In today's essay, I'm going to tell you how you're completely wrong about my boy" but I ended yp hardcore agreeing with you and this video is wonderful. Bless you.
Tl; Dr they made him a a character and not just an old-english speaking plot device
Thanks for the favorite!
Thor not speaking in old English is the biggest gripe I have with Thor... now he sounds like any other character with an Australian accent...
Yeah, much more human and relatable
They made him fun.
Wilo Polis u
I think it's actually Christopher Markus and Stephen Mcfeely but ok....
Seth Parris no he means that he fucked their names at the start lol
@Seth Parris 1:40
Shhhh, we cant let them know he undermined the contributions of the writers
watching it back, I really love how confident you are in calling it Avenger Annihilation.
His relationship with loki is stronger than ever...
infinity war: *loki dies first few scenes*
Clearly you don't know Loki he always fakes his death then returns either in the next movie or a few movies later I don't believe for a second he's dead
@@joshuawesten8300 i think i heard some where that he is dead but another loki from another universe is gonma be in the mcu
@@dwad8710 Does it matter? Marvel is over now, endgame will be the final and last marvel movie worth watching.
Phase 5 will be absolute dog siht.
@@joshuawesten8300 have you never seen the movies? he IS 100% dead.
The research that went into this is better than most anything on RUclips. They should hire you on their actual commentary versions of the movies
wow thats such a nice thing to say thank you
I feel bad for Thor, he lost all of his family, his home (Asgard), half of Asgard (as a people), his best friend, and failed to complete the mission that no one else could. His turn in Endgame is understandable, and it also sets up a great redemption ark for Thor: Love and Thunder.
Thor had so much lost potential in the movies before Ragnarok. He was ridiculously weak for a man with a powerful hammer, and didn't seem to know how to use his abilities. I'm surprised to see how easily he got taken down for someone who nearly killed Thanos
I'm glad that he had a major overhaul after Ragnarok. He expresses his full potential and still has some more untapped potential left to be explored. I used to dislike Thor and didn't know how people enjoyed him, but now I thoroughly enjoy him.
Same goes for Iron Man. He had a very bland character with more untapped potential. After the Russo Brother's involvement, he became amazing
"I could lose a lot." -Rocket
"Dad..."
Damn Thor makes the same mistake almost every villain in any story makes
Yep! Thanos got him monologuing!
Well the whole movie was thanos being the hero and our heroes villains. So yeah
jarskii11 I think calling the heros villains is a bit of a stretch. I mean, they are trying to stop half the universe from dying.
Longfellow Deeds22734 he means in the sense that form a narrative structure point of view, infinity war could be seen as a hero’s journey from the point of view of Thanos as the hero and by proxy making those who try to get in the way of this journey (the avengers and co) the villains of thanos’s story.
@@jarskii11 lol thanks for your input. I too have seen video essays on Marvel Movies.😒
“Avengers Annihilation”
The good old days...
Beat me to it!
Facade was so bad he went "fat-sad"
(Reads title) (sees like/dislike ratio) alright. I’ll listen
That was me too :)
That’s me in every video
Before, Thor was just okay but had little to no motivation to develop and grow. But then Ragnorok came around and now he's becoming a king possibly stronger than Odin. Now, after Infinity War he's one of the more fleshed out characters because now he has gone through so much in what seems like just a couple of weeks within the story's timeline.
Tony battles with PTSD and lost his protege.
Cap is tired of living in war and doesn't know when he'll get his life back.
Hulk and Banner can't work out a compromise.
Natasha is starting to make some friends but at the cost of being vulnerable for the first time in her life.
Okoye and all of what's left of Wakanda just lost their king.
If Shuri's still alive, then she lost her only brother.
Rocket just lost his only friends in the galaxy.
Nebula lost her sister.
Hawkeye is going to be pissed when he finds out what happened to Wanda, and we dont want to know if his family was affected.
Rhodes is paralyzed and has no idea where Tony is, and just lost his position in the military so he's on the run as well.
Scott is stuck in the Quantum Realm and has no way to get back to his daughter, if she's still there, and is unaware that his science friends just vanished.
And Thor just lost his home planet yesterday and failed to save half the universe when he had Thanos wounded.
All while Thanos is living in tranquility hiding and smiling at what an achievement he believes he has made.
Let's just rewind to the 90's to when Fury was still alive and hope it all turns out just peachy.
Gr8 summary
@SpiritWolf2K Hulk isn't controlled anymore because he has been the hulk for so long. (As it was implied in the movie that time goes by oddly in Sakaar) His intellect has already grown and he actually likes being big, green, and loved by Sakaarians. He doesn't want to go back to being Banner because he has grown comfortable being himself and doesn't want to return to being the man's weapon or "superpower".
@SpiritWolf2K They never implied that he could control Hulk himself just that he finally made the breakthrough in controlling the transformation.
And that's continued throughout Avengers and Age of Ultron. Banner can intentionally bring out the transformation because he found a balance, he's "always angry" but Hulk is still dangerous so he has to be careful about transforming unintentionally because Hulk's ultimately still a mindless destroyer.
And Hulk in Ragnarok isn't a 180 it's just a development: Hulk is now his own person with his own personality and needs. And it's not even out of nowhere because all the way back in The Incredible Hulk they bring up the argument about whether Hulk is his own entity or if Banner was still in there. And in The Avengers he seemed to have come to the conclusion that he isn't and Hulk is just "the other guy" all the way through Age of Ultron where Tony remembers he shouldn't mention "puny Banner" to the Hulk.
He's not stronger than Odin.
Yet...
@SpiritWolf2K That's what he said already. He can't control the Hulk, he's his own person, but he CAN bring him out intentionally. However, after he transforms, it's up to Hulk whether or not he changes back into Banner.
"Stephen Markus and Christopher McFeely" Nice mixup
I think Thor getting stormbreaker in infinity war is a bit weird because in ragnarok part of the story is him being powerful and not needing his hammer but then in infinity war he gets an even more powerful weapon.
i wish he didnt have that fake eye he should have kept Odins eye patch
Thats how the facade works bruh
Agreed, but that seems like more of an end game moment. Removing it reaffirms that he isn't ready to take on that mantle of being complete with his journey. It's annoying to the viewer, but smart from a storytelling perspective. It's more of the giving you the idea that this is how it's going, and then entirely flipping it on its head. Ragnarok made us think it was the end of his character arc. He learned humor, became stronger, learned what it means to be a king, and ultimately became a more complete character... The Infinity War steps in and says psyche, we're not done yet, and shows that even after everything he still retains that core character flaw and still has more growth to make before he can be that completed king. I still think it should have played into making him go more along his journey, but I also appreciate that sometimes in order to grow and reach maximum potential, you sometimes need to be completely broken. And at this point.. What else can break with him? He truly has nothing more to lose. Which leaves one option. Gain and growth.
@@KluveRothtar agreed, i hope they do replace the eye in the future though would be cool to see
@@tjay45 I think if these movies have shown anything, it's that these writers and directors know what they're doing and everything has a purpose for the plot, no matter how small. They're not just going to leave it off how it is. They have something in store
I'm holding out for it getting busted in Endgame
In... a.... good way?
Watch... the... video.... hahahahaha
Holy shit literally everything you said came true on Endgame. Amazing analysis, man.
Dude thanked "Stephen Markus and Christopher McFeely" for the screenplay instead of Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
you should add the words "in a good way" in the title. i know it's click-bait-y and simultaneously truthful, but I'm betting a lot of people won't be able to get past the title and watch all of the video. great work with the vid by the way. wonderful analysis.
Maybe but I think its pretty silly to comment without watching the video. Hell, you get the entire thesis in the first minute!
Thanks for watching! :)
@@FullFatVideos you have faith in people. that's good. :D hahahahahahahahaha!
You truly don't understand the internetz then, people judge a book for its cover and a video for its title I do recommend you to add something else specially since its a 20 min video @@FullFatVideos
@@FullFatVideos its more Willy to not just change the title.
Because of clickbait people is more aware of watching videos as they dont wanna help those who does clickbate videoens to get more views.
But I can understand why you wont change it.
After all, you wouldnt had this much views if you change it..
I'd like to point out that really the death of half the universe was neither Peter's fault nor Thor's thanks to that one line by Dr. Strange. If there really was "no other way" then any deviation by those two characters would have brought on a permanent end to half the universe without any hope of reversal. He knew from the moment he gave Thanos the time stone that they would have to lose the battle to win the war.
That was a great bit of writing on the writers' part. Now everyone can't disagree with the Avengers' choices, because it was the only way.
The sad thing is that Thor survived the snap but never learned that. So he blames himself.
THANK YOU! That’s what I’ve been saying for months
Dr. Strange did in fact see past the titan fight and a "how to"-guide to beat thanos. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for him to tell Tony Stark that "there were not other way" as the snap has already happened and they "lost". So it was totally according to a plan that skylord and thor messed up, I personally would argue that Dr. Strange knew that they would do what they did, but skylord and thor didn't know that this was how it should have happened themselves
I just re-watched Infinity War and paid specific attention to Dr. Strange's endgame comment. It was after Strange gave Thanos the Time Stone to save Tony on Titan and then Thanos heads to Earth. Tony asks, "Why would you do that?" Strange responds, "We're in the endgame now." So the "Endgame" is that one scenario Strange saw where the Avengers ultimately win.
Can’t wait to see his arc complete in Thor: Love and Thunder
That is legit the cleverest clickbaity title ever!✔
Feel like Waititi made Loki’s hair greasier for the lols
hahahaahahaha
He did spend most of the movie traveling and living on a trash planet fighting. So I think it makes sense he would have not so clean hair
Matt H I meant the scene with Strange. His hair looks greasier there and it’s just a joke
Well, Waititi ACTUALLY destroyed Thor in Love&Thunder
This is so well researched and put together. It’s really rare to come across a channel that creates content this intelligent. Thank you
that Thor entrance at Wakanda gives me goosebumps every damn time, its almost as good as the ride of the Rohirrim
its so freaking awesome
Hell no.... it's not even good let alone compared to one of the best scenes ever lol
@@jjmm4965 what`s the best scene ever? tell me
and if it`s not the best than it`s certainly one of the best despite of your opinion
That deep/low noise when he jumps in the air in Wakanda! Gives me goosebumps every time!
Why did you have to bait and switch me like that, I came here to write a massive comment about how wrong you were after seeing the title. Nicely done
excuse me, but can you PLEASE address the fact that Thor can literally be infused with lightning and _still_ get electrified by some mcguffin device?
its not like there are several different kinds of electricity, there is just that: electricity, and if you are immune to it, then guess what; some mcguffin device won't affect you.
@J C if I remember it is suppose to be a nerotoxin or something so I don't know why they gave it the effect they did
FUCK TARD ITS NOT ELETRIC....AND LIGHTING CAN STILL BE INJURED MY LIGHTING WANNA BET IF THOR HAD A FIGHT WITH THOR....
@@jcanims2620 dude relax
2 weeks ago dude irrelevant
@@a-drewg1716 Maybe it has that effect because his nervous system is somehow connected to the electricity in him.
“Fate wills it so” and “what more could I lose” is what he needs to cling to. For all of his bravado past and previous victories, he feels that he honestly has nothing left. If he doesn’t hold on to the idea that he will win because he HAS to win is the only thing that keeps him from crumbling.
What a clickbait title! Was coming solely to dislike but I'm pleasantly surprised.
So if it was criticism of thor's chatacter and if you disagreed, you would've automatically disliked? Just goes to show the amount of fanboyism and sensitivity there is in the fan base these days, lmao.
@@CelestialDraconis lol. If the criticism is fair I wouldn't mind.
grill
That title pulled a sneaky one on us
I swear if Thor doesnt fight Noobmaster69 next Thor Ill flip
Watching this after Endgame and I'm impressed at how accurate the closing comments were!
Came to criticize the video because of the title but damn you got me. Well done. This is how you do clickbait ladies and gents
thanks mate! x
The ultimate clickbait that isn’t really a clickbait but low key a click bait. Well done 😂
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This video is BRILLIANT !! I’ve always appreciated the character development of marvel writers. But this shows me how brilliant their storytelling really is. Great job bro.
I’ve heard from at least one person that “giving Thor an eye and a new weapon was a bad choice”. I loved it personally
Read that title, got a little steamed. Glad I watched before voting it.
Same
Yeah. Wished they had reworded it.
Damn, that's a pretty smart title to be honest. It gets the viewer clicking on the title almost like clickbait, but it technically isn't clickbait. I'm subbing just for that.
Just what I was looking for. Very well done bro
I thought this video was going to be about how Thor's character was totally butchered in Ragnarok, almost redeemed in Infinity War, and then re-butchered in Endgame. Oh, well.
Please stop asserting your opinion as fact.
@@williampym3741 I didn't. I just gave my assessment of Thor's character progression through the last three movies. Obviously it's my opinion, because I'm the one saying it. If you don't like my opinion, there's a Thumbs Down button just below my comment for your convenience.
@@jamesrelich8210 Sorry, its just the impression you gave.
Personally, I thought Waititi humiliated Thor a bit too much, particularly in the opening, during his banter with Surtr, and his Shakespearean speak vanished too abruptly considering the last time we've seen Thor.
However, this was the most interesting Thor we've seen ... until IW. Gotta give Hemsworth some credit as it was he who suggested that Markus and McFeely consult with the writers of 'Ragnarok' to make sure the character's tonal transition is smooth while the duo also give traces of his Shakespearean speak.
Thor's scene with Rocket is not just emotional, it should a defining moment for the MCU as it also aligns with Rocket's arc, not just Thor's -- Should be remembered among Thor's own entrance to Wakanda and Parker's disintegration.
I may be one of the only people who actually hates Thor: Ragnarok, and it's not because I feel like they "ruined Thor," it's more to do with the fact that they ruined the Thor _series_ as we know it. Thor was never the best subseries in the franchise, but the MCU has remarkable consistency and events in previous films have _permanence,_ as well. They don't get handwaved out of the way. But in Ragnarok, all of Thor's arcs, for better or worse, sort of just get sidelined or handwaved aside. The Warriors Three, Jane Foster, Sif, Thor's realizations in the previous films, all of it just gets ignored or casually and unceremoniously, _cheaply_ cast aside. You...shouldn't _do_ that in a series like the MCU, they need to be given their due screentime and closing arc first, and they weren't, here. I feel like it even mishandled his conflict with Loki. I don't ask for much. I don't ask for another boring, overly serious slog, I just ask for _consistency,_ the MCU's defining characteristic, and I'll be okay with an MCU film, and Ragnarok failed utterly to deliver on any of that. So to me, it's perhaps the worst film in the entire franchise aside from the Hulk movie. The new Thor is fun and more insightful than he appears to be, but it doesn't feel _earned._ What you said about his change in mannerisms is reflective of this: It feels like we skipped a couple of chapters and saw the end of an arc, but not the parts leading up to it. I think it's also telling that Infinity War mostly tried to pretend Ragnarok never happened: Thor gets a new eye, a new weapon, and his personality becomes something closer to what he was in his earlier appearances in the series. I don't so much view him as growing because of Ragnarok as him _returning to form_ in _spite_ of Ragnarok, in Infinity War.
So to me, Waititi's humor doesn't work in the wider MCU, and I shudder to imagine what Guardians Volume 3 is going to be like if he repeats these mistakes there. Say what you want about James Gunn's private life, he was a great director and despite them also being rather comical films, I really liked Guardians and found Vol. 2 to be one of the most well-written and emotionally-involving stories in the entire franchise. Firing the man who directed those films is, in my view, a mistake on its own, but replacing him with someone who, in Ragnarok, threw out most of the emotional depth in favor of just comedy, while the majority of the MCU has a good _balance_ between drama and comedy? That's compounding the problem tenfold. I hope I'm wrong, and Waititi was just trying to make Ragnarok specifically into a lulzfest, but it's making me worry, because that will _ruin_ Guardians. A good comedy will generally make you laugh, and then make you cry as the characters you've come to relate to so much through their varying quirks get dragged through the mud. Ragnarok only managed Step One. Thor's refusal to ever really let his losses sink in until after Ragnarok, in Infinity War, robbed him of anything quite that meaningful for Ragnarok. We _got_ it in Infinity War, and I suppose I can excuse it in Ragnarok if it was specifically set up that way, but we _can't_ have a repeat of this in Volume 3.
@@Phoenix-214 I wasn't fond of Ragnarok either. Though I liked it better than The Dark World.
@@Phoenix-214 As you said Thor was not the best subseries and was possibly the worst. When all your movies do well, a movie like Thor 2 is a shame. Now when designing Thor 3 they were faced with a choice: either keep what was here before and try to make it work, or throw everything away and try to do something new. I think both approach have their pros and cons, but I can understand that they had no idea how to make Thor good and had to throw a lot of characters away. (casting problems might have been a factor too, if some actors wanted to be done with the MCU).
Now it is sad to see all these tings thrown away, and it seems that we will not have another Jane Foster, Sif or The warriors Three. But as we all know, this has never stopped comic books writer before. Big cosmic universe changing events are what they use to bring back characters they wanted back. In the cas of the movies, it can also be a good occasion for a recast. And the next Avengers movie might be a good occasion to do just that. And I feel that if they want to bring the X-Men into their universe, they will need another universe altering event, so all those Thor characters might come back, in a new version of themselves that suit the new direction Thor is taking.
So yeah it is a bad sad that Thor 3 was a big departure from the previous movies, but I see it as the first movie in Thor 2.0 with Jane Foster and Sif coming back later, when they are comfortable with their new direction.
@@VictouffeVideos Be that as it may, just throwing them aside like that isn't ideal, it's lazy writing, and that's why I was unimpressed by Ragnarok. It was fun and campy but it didn't emotionally involve me the way other MCU films did and that's both because of the way certain characters (Odin, I'm lookin' at you.) behaved inconsistently with their past appearances, and the way others who had important historical roles were just thrown out. I don't buy that they couldn't have made a better story based on what was already there, either. I've seen plenty of shitty stories redeem themselves in sequels without doing this. Even Thor himself suddenly became too much of a clown too quickly. I'd buy a story like Ragnarok if we had like, another movie or two which _led into it_ and developed the characters towards what we saw in the movie. It's not that Ragnarok was a bad movie on its own, but it broke too many of the MCU's unspoken rules for me to like it _as a part of the franchise,_ specifically. And the proof? Look at IW. A Thor more like the original Thor was developed into an interesting character in his own right.
@@Phoenix-214 I can't agree on your opinion of 'Ragnarok' because I thought it was memorable compared to Thor's previous appearances and, personally, I thought Waititi didn't replaced all the emotional scenes just for laughs; more like conveying the sadness through comedy. If you think Thor's development was rushed, I guessed they rushed in setting him up for 'Infinity War'. Plus, I'm a fan '80s stuffs and a bit familiar with Waititi's previous works.
But I do agree with you on the Warriors Three, they deserved a ceremonious kill-off. I know people who thought they weren't memorable enough but they were Thor's best friends and comrades. Skurge was killed-off too early as well.
Another thing I do agree with you is about 'Guardians of the Galaxy' and 'Vol. 2'. Despite the latter having excessive humour, it's actually my favorite film in the MCU's entry for its emotional moments.
But is Waititi confirmed for 'Vol. 3'? Last I heard the film was shelved? Personally, I think they need to get someone who hasn't done an MCU film before and my pick is Phil Lord and Chris Miller.
In regards to Gunn's firing, it was really the only thing do to. If Disney had kept him, there'll be backlash. Sure, I'd rather see 'Vol. 3' done by him, along with the imagined cosmic side of the MCU, and I do believe he's changed but it wasn't a mistake to fire him.
after thousands of years after falling in love
his entire family and all his friends die
his entire kingdom is destroyed
all within very small portion of his life
its so good
This is a brilliant character analysis, also it almost fixes what Marvel got wrong with Norse Mythology. While Ragnarok got details wrong like Hela being Odin's daughter instead of Loki's (but that serves the actual story so I'll let it go), it got Thor and Loki's dynamic right. Not just good and evil like through a Christian perspective (Christ figure vs Devil figure) but both complex and morally grey. Thor is a hero, but a brash and often brutish one, and Loki is not utterly evil, but he is still a trickster at his core.
In Infinity War, Thor experiences what Ragnarok truly is; the prophecy that can't be changed. Asgard is destroyed, the gods die, and Thor finally meets a foe that he can't beat by swinging his hammer around. Thanos may not be a jotun, but he might as well be a Giant.
No, it still got several things wrong.
What in Freyr's name you're mumbling about? It got nothing right about Ragnarok. For starters, Ragnarok in the Eddas AIN'T FUNNY. And no, we don't let "Hela being Odin's daughter slide". Her being Loki's offspring plays crucial part in the stories, much like Jormugandr and Fenrir does. She was a product of Loki being unfaithful to his wife, and right before Ragnarok, his wife would remain faithful and stay by his side while he endures suffering. That's called tragic irony, something you or Waititi have no concept of. Then he'll break free, gather an army in Hel's realm and ride to fight Aesir gods in the final battle. Hel, Jormugandr and Fenrir are the triangle of chaos at the center of which is their father Loki, who is the reason why Ragnarok will happen - because it's his destiny, he's an uncontrollable chaos that destroys everything.
This movie is a joke. And lmfao at you for even mentioning Norse Mythology like this junk movie has any understanding of it. (It doesn't; there were no "the devils aнус" jokes in the Eddas.)
Damn, JOURNEY theme is so fitting and well done use in this video, well done man.
Thor got Branagh’d first, original movie is still dope. For some reason they just forgot how to use him well for 6 years until Ragnarok
i love the first movie
Thank you, I love that one too,
Thor was pretty good in The Avengers
Ethan
After he became humble, he lost a lot of personality. The arrogant, brash character was what gave him personality. When he was more endearing between Thor and Ragnarok is when it came out in spurts - "He's adopted", the look he makes when Cap moves Mjonir slightly etc. It's done a bit in The Avengers movies, but not in Thor: The Dark World. Ragnarok helped his character a lot by giving him a personality again.
@@FullFatVideos if you love the first movie, how can you possibly excuse the sins of the third movie, unless you love only all the wrong parts of the first movie and the message of it went clear over your head?