About war participation: Anyone else experiencing, that war score for "Destroyed Enemy Planes" only considers those that were shot down by other planes? I had a bunch of soviet planes destroyed as Finland by state AA and support AA, but none of them counted towards war score.
Be careful when using this exploit, when the lend leasing score reaches a certain amount (around 20,000), the score will suddenly flip to minus 20,000, and all of your effort is gone. It also happens to the penalty for receiving lend lease. Probably related to memory overflow.
Considering the UK in this video has a 4000 score modifier in 1940 from land combat alone, that seems like a tremendous oversight by Paradox, unless it's only the Lend Lease modifier using the low memory?
I found this odd that it actually stole war score instead of just increasing your own. Even on release with this, I thought this was a complete oversight by Paradox. I’m pretty sure nobody tests the game anymore. If you play a country with fuel you may of well have player led peace conferences on.
Paradox should definitely patch that. Because if you can just lend-lease your way to victory so to speak, that'll give all the nations that already start out powerful all the good stuff again, essentially repeating the problems that the old peace conference system had.
I mean, when it comes down to it, hoi4 is all about industry, manpower, and military might. I don't find it odd that you can siphon war score from the person you lend-lease as they are increasingly reliant on your industry.
I think it would be more intuitive if it worked more like expedititonaries. British men that are 100% supplied by American equipment might give, for example, 80% participation to America and 20% to Britian. Actually siphoning off war participation that a nation already has is extremely broken.
@@InfiniteDeckhand or you can start lend leasing fuel as a high oil low factory minor like Mexico, Venezuela, the Netherlands, DEI, Iraq, or Iran and run the show when the conference comes around
You can just send maximum amount of oil as a single batch and it will literally give like -6462729 participation instantly to anyone receiving it. It instantly makes any amount of participation 0%
Did they fix this? Ive been lend leasing obnoxious amounts of equipment oil and convoys to Japan and didn't get any. Yes I am in their faction and am in all their wars. I even tried your method but still not much happened.
The same thing can happen with the console command that fills out your equipment stockpiles, I don't remember what it's called, but you can accidentally tank yourself down to -60 billion convoys
Fun fact: just like that old bug with having negative/infinite guns, with lend lease your warscore impact can become negative too (but it still counts as positive, at least I hope). I'm also not sure if the stuff you send has any effect on the score or not, I just tend to buy a bunch of oil, then lendlease fuel % to the warscore generating countries, until they hit 0 score. Lendleasing to countries with no warscore is wasted potential.
What if you send them 100% of your oil (or maybe spread the lend lease out to the top contributing countries) while you import oil from other nations? (especially if you are a smaller country with no oil but a lot of civs) Will you be able to tank all of their contribution? Will you be the oil baron you always wanted to be?
yes. every time the italians/japan sank a bunch of ships at once their warscore jumped up, and I just sent them fuel until they dropped to zero. I had near 100% war participation as hungary, with maybe 20k losses (although i did pull off some nice encirclements)
I just did that. I was playing as fascist UK and Japan declared war on me. So i just invaded them and sent 100% of my oil to China and my war score increased from 0 to 75%. I did this for three to four times and ended up with war score of 96% and almost stole everything except for Taiwan.
@@71Cloak What about a number crunch regarding civ build war participation from fuel vs mil builds and equipment related war participation (which is usually what a rational human goes for). Unless you've already done a test of sorts. Would find it helpful! Thanks for being the best source for info on this game
I started as Hungary, reformed Austria-Hungary and then Germany came knocking for the Sudetenland. I had to fend them off by myself for a year until they declared on Poland. Then when they moved troops off my line I countered and took most of their VPs and they captiulated. Unfortunately, the Allies were in the war for about 6 months, so UK had over 60% war score from lend-leasing to their colonies, France, and Poland. At the peace deal I got 2 states because UK and France had all the war score. I took the most casualties, caused the most casualties, and took the most VPs but they got all the spoils. The new peace deals are complete bullshit.
I noticed this pretty early on as Canada, since I usually aggressively lend lease fuel to the UK for autonomy. However, I booted up my save one day to see that the lend lease portion of my war score had been flipped from over 18k to -18k. Not really sure how that happened.
I think that the AI should also be able to reject lend lease. Because irl, what lend lease basically is is "get it now, negotiate payments later". So while it was a huge help, it was definitely no charity. So in cases where you already have a surplus of a particular equipment, the help is NOT welcomed.
Honestly I don't think this is terrible - if you're the only reason the UK is able to put fighters in the air and the royal navy to sea you should have a significant contribution. Sure, they need to tweak the formula a bit, maybe put a cap on the % of total participation you're able to get (because your boys aren't dying) but the basic idea makes a load of sense - the USA's lend lease program was a MASSIVE factor in why the allies/soviets won, that should be rewarded in the warscore!
About time lend lease finally has a use outside of annexing puppets and highly competitive multiplayer games. And, overall, pretty reasonable, the US did dominate allied peace negotiations in both Europe and the Pacific; if they just introduce a mechanic where you can refuse to give up any territory you control (which is effectively what the USSR did) then you've effectively modeled post-war peace process.
Massive oversight that they didn't put a hard-cap on how much war participation can be 'traded' by lend-lease actions, tbh. Disincentivizes the entire point of lend-lease.
I don't know how they'd do it but they should change it so that only your weapons that your allies are actually fielding should count towards war participation.
To make this even more ridiculous you can request lend lease from nations that arent part of the war and it wont tank your participation but you can send that equipment away to gain participation
Go on the lend-lease page, go to the "navy" section and the only option for you should be to send convoys. (I am not sure if it will work, I have no DLC's)
seems that they nerfed warscore from non-combat into the dirt in the latest patch. While lend-leasing was definitely broken, I think they might have went too far in the other direction. It was nice being able to focus on something like navy and starving out britain or japan with convoy raiding and being rewarded for that.
I discovered this last night. Nothing like giving France and the USSR all my old guns and seized equipment to tank their war participation. I raised my own score from 11% to mid 30s.
I had always felt that “player controlled peace conferences” mod was really cheaty, but this methods means you can still manage the conference while putting something into the war effort (even if its a bunch of useless guns), which is nice.
This mechanic does make sense but it would have made a lot more sense if the game could actually calculate how many of those land-leases are being actively used in-war to determine how much war score you get. As things stand, you're just bankrolling the UK to put old guns in big storerooms and then show up & say "Hey look at those unused guns I've sent you, I deserve a bigger piece of the pie for that, right?" Alternatively, would also help if the AI wasn't so open to land-leases and only accept it if their equipment was close to zero or in the negative. It could balance this broken feature.
if you're lend-leasing overseas, don't send them more fuel then they can actually transport back home, it counts as "sunk equipment" and basically goes to waste doing this with a nation that has land access to you is much better, because u can lend lease as much as you want and it will bring their war participation so fast so low, and bring yours up so fast so high. when you're doing it overseas its just limited to their convoys, really slow compared to having land access because if u researched oil tech and have oil or just civilian factories that u can trade for oil, you could lend lease even 35-40k fuel a day (compared to with convoys you could at most lend lease 8-10k to each UK and US) and its just so broken. i've played a ethiopia game where i balkanized the country for factories that they get from focuses, then reunited, traded oil with all my civs, and i got all of germany plus some of italy, all of japan and korea just by lend leasing the allies. i got less from the axis since i dont have land access to UK and USA war ended before i could lend lease them enough oil.
Well, looks like war profiteering is on the menu. How realistic. The implementation needs tweaking (you should get your own warscore, rather than taking it from allies), but providing lend-lease should be rewarded.
This looks like almost necessary if you show up late to combat. In a recent game as the USA I essentially took out Japan and Germany pretty much single handedly but was a late arrival in the combat. Peace conference was a joke as my “participation” was low compared to the other allies the Germans and Japanese had been beating down for most the game. Wish I’d been doing lend lease.
honestly you don't even need to produce your own oil if you have a sizable enough industry you can just buy oil and give it to people for free war score
I hate that it is exploitable like this, because I really like the idea of lend-lease shifting war participation, it feels realistic. But I can't think of a good way to balance it. Remove the penalty for the receiving country? Now we're generating war score out of thin air by moving equipment around. Cap the gain and loss to e.g. 1000? Only works out if you lend-lease to just a single nation or we'll delete more war score from our allies than we gain. Both options are probably still better than the current system though.
The only bad thing about lend leasing the soviets is that if you play long enough they eventually trigger ww3 and they now you have to fight all the equipment you sent them.
Well and is that actually feasible as other countries: I mean - yes you as the us have like endless oil and endless factories and the uk has a good amount of convoys to import that stuff. But is that really a thing for other nations? When i played as portugal in comintern i really struggled to lend lease SU because they had no convoys and i would have to lendlease them too to even give them the possibility to get so much lendlease...
80% war participation, losses: 0 ... I have noticed this already while playing as Etiopia and I was confuse by my war score... Mouse over displayed this... recieved lend and lease trades war score for stuff...
oh yeah while we're on this topic sinking ships gives you an absurd amount of warscore to the point where me playing UK had higher % warscore than the french and soviets just because i spent the entire game decimating the german fleet
looks like someone in Paradox had watched some of TIK History's vids on the matter. must be someone who got fed up by the corpo mentality and took the red pill, because 100% of the RP elements in the game have the exact opposite mentality and views on "history".
Admittedly, I enjoy this, because it creates the rather historical outcome where the only people who organize the peace deal end up being the USA, the UK, and the Soviet Union, so you legitimately end up having The Big Three. Although, the UK and USSR being lend leased to having barely any war participation, not as much
Guys I need help please. I play Germany and I have 35 weapon fabriken ( you know the stuff that produces weapons) alone for Inf equipment and its just not enough to supply 1,5 mio man. Whats wrong? That wasnt happening before.. Has someone tips or ideas what do? Im gonna lose the war because I dont have enough rifles to supply my men and I cant raise more divisions which I really need. Has someone else run into this problem?
![The SECRET Superpower Everyone Underestimates [HOI4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qbJl9H7Utmw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The SECRET Superpower Everyone Underestimates [HOI4]](/img/tr.png)
A new 71Cloak test, the perfect thing to wake up early to.
About war participation: Anyone else experiencing, that war score for "Destroyed Enemy Planes" only considers those that were shot down by other planes? I had a bunch of soviet planes destroyed as Finland by state AA and support AA, but none of them counted towards war score.
Yeah that is a really weird one. Idk why it only counts air combat but I do know there was a post about it on the forums.
Be careful when using this exploit, when the lend leasing score reaches a certain amount (around 20,000), the score will suddenly flip to minus 20,000, and all of your effort is gone. It also happens to the penalty for receiving lend lease. Probably related to memory overflow.
Considering the UK in this video has a 4000 score modifier in 1940 from land combat alone, that seems like a tremendous oversight by Paradox, unless it's only the Lend Lease modifier using the low memory?
@@rovsea-3761 You can't have negative land combat war score so it's probably not an unsigned number
I found this odd that it actually stole war score instead of just increasing your own. Even on release with this, I thought this was a complete oversight by Paradox. I’m pretty sure nobody tests the game anymore. If you play a country with fuel you may of well have player led peace conferences on.
Paradox should definitely patch that. Because if you can just lend-lease your way to victory so to speak, that'll give all the nations that already start out powerful all the good stuff again, essentially repeating the problems that the old peace conference system had.
I mean they could just not accept the land-lease. I really want to do a gamer move and become a arms dealer RP.
I mean, when it comes down to it, hoi4 is all about industry, manpower, and military might. I don't find it odd that you can siphon war score from the person you lend-lease as they are increasingly reliant on your industry.
I think it would be more intuitive if it worked more like expedititonaries. British men that are 100% supplied by American equipment might give, for example, 80% participation to America and 20% to Britian. Actually siphoning off war participation that a nation already has is extremely broken.
@@InfiniteDeckhand or you can start lend leasing fuel as a high oil low factory minor like Mexico, Venezuela, the Netherlands, DEI, Iraq, or Iran and run the show when the conference comes around
New game mode: annex as much territory that you can by only producing oil and defending
Been doing that the whole update got control off Iran if your in South America Venezuela or you could even get a bunch of civs and trade for oil
@Omar Khurshid yep it’s patched
@Omar Khurshid I don’t know they should’ve kept it in the game it made any nation fun to play now it’s just Italy,uk, and Germany back to it.
You can just send maximum amount of oil as a single batch and it will literally give like -6462729 participation instantly to anyone receiving it.
It instantly makes any amount of participation 0%
Did they fix this? Ive been lend leasing obnoxious amounts of equipment oil and convoys to Japan and didn't get any. Yes I am in their faction and am in all their wars. I even tried your method but still not much happened.
The same thing can happen with the console command that fills out your equipment stockpiles, I don't remember what it's called, but you can accidentally tank yourself down to -60 billion convoys
Thank you for your continual exposure of the mechanics of HOI4. Every one of your videos is absolute gold.
Fun fact: just like that old bug with having negative/infinite guns, with lend lease your warscore impact can become negative too (but it still counts as positive, at least I hope). I'm also not sure if the stuff you send has any effect on the score or not, I just tend to buy a bunch of oil, then lendlease fuel % to the warscore generating countries, until they hit 0 score. Lendleasing to countries with no warscore is wasted potential.
What if you send them 100% of your oil (or maybe spread the lend lease out to the top contributing countries) while you import oil from other nations?
(especially if you are a smaller country with no oil but a lot of civs)
Will you be able to tank all of their contribution? Will you be the oil baron you always wanted to be?
The only correct way to play HoI4: Stealing land as an oil baron that never actually fights wars.
yes. every time the italians/japan sank a bunch of ships at once their warscore jumped up, and I just sent them fuel until they dropped to zero. I had near 100% war participation as hungary, with maybe 20k losses (although i did pull off some nice encirclements)
I just did that. I was playing as fascist UK and Japan declared war on me. So i just invaded them and sent 100% of my oil to China and my war score increased from 0 to 75%. I did this for three to four times and ended up with war score of 96% and almost stole everything except for Taiwan.
Yeah that's why fuel is the best one. You can use it to trade civs for war participation. Which is honestly just broken.
@@71Cloak What about a number crunch regarding civ build war participation from fuel vs mil builds and equipment related war participation (which is usually what a rational human goes for). Unless you've already done a test of sorts. Would find it helpful! Thanks for being the best source for info on this game
I started as Hungary, reformed Austria-Hungary and then Germany came knocking for the Sudetenland. I had to fend them off by myself for a year until they declared on Poland. Then when they moved troops off my line I countered and took most of their VPs and they captiulated.
Unfortunately, the Allies were in the war for about 6 months, so UK had over 60% war score from lend-leasing to their colonies, France, and Poland.
At the peace deal I got 2 states because UK and France had all the war score. I took the most casualties, caused the most casualties, and took the most VPs but they got all the spoils.
The new peace deals are complete bullshit.
I noticed this pretty early on as Canada, since I usually aggressively lend lease fuel to the UK for autonomy. However, I booted up my save one day to see that the lend lease portion of my war score had been flipped from over 18k to -18k. Not really sure how that happened.
one time i was in a war and equatorial guinea had 97% contribution because i didn't know lend leasing was such an overpowered feature
I think that the AI should also be able to reject lend lease. Because irl, what lend lease basically is is "get it now, negotiate payments later". So while it was a huge help, it was definitely no charity.
So in cases where you already have a surplus of a particular equipment, the help is NOT welcomed.
the game straight up treats it as charity though
Every romanian player has known about this for a long time
Wow- totally busted. Great insight - hopefully PDX watches your feed daily!
new beta just dropped fixing this. congrats, i think pdx might be keeping an eye on your vids lol
Honestly I don't think this is terrible - if you're the only reason the UK is able to put fighters in the air and the royal navy to sea you should have a significant contribution. Sure, they need to tweak the formula a bit, maybe put a cap on the % of total participation you're able to get (because your boys aren't dying) but the basic idea makes a load of sense - the USA's lend lease program was a MASSIVE factor in why the allies/soviets won, that should be rewarded in the warscore!
About time lend lease finally has a use outside of annexing puppets and highly competitive multiplayer games. And, overall, pretty reasonable, the US did dominate allied peace negotiations in both Europe and the Pacific; if they just introduce a mechanic where you can refuse to give up any territory you control (which is effectively what the USSR did) then you've effectively modeled post-war peace process.
I just found out your channel recently, and absolutely subscribe worthy because I want to keep ahead of the current mechanics, or should I say 'meta'
Massive oversight that they didn't put a hard-cap on how much war participation can be 'traded' by lend-lease actions, tbh. Disincentivizes the entire point of lend-lease.
damn i was too late on this, would have been fun to mess around with.
Outdated. They reduced the amount you get from lend lease by 1000.
I don't know how they'd do it but they should change it so that only your weapons that your allies are actually fielding should count towards war participation.
Based and historically accurate
To make this even more ridiculous you can request lend lease from nations that arent part of the war and it wont tank your participation but you can send that equipment away to gain participation
Hey, how do you send the convoys?
Go on the lend-lease page, go to the "navy" section and the only option for you should be to send convoys.
(I am not sure if it will work, I have no DLC's)
@@indubbiamente1752 it was bugged now it works thx
seems that they nerfed warscore from non-combat into the dirt in the latest patch. While lend-leasing was definitely broken, I think they might have went too far in the other direction. It was nice being able to focus on something like navy and starving out britain or japan with convoy raiding and being rewarded for that.
Yeah they nerfed it way too much. It was fun to bankroll the war and get a good score.
Thanks for uploading
I discovered this last night. Nothing like giving France and the USSR all my old guns and seized equipment to tank their war participation. I raised my own score from 11% to mid 30s.
early game as the USA I build thousand of convoys that I will use to lend lease huge amounts of equipment later
Wow!!! Speechless!!
I had always felt that “player controlled peace conferences” mod was really cheaty, but this methods means you can still manage the conference while putting something into the war effort (even if its a bunch of useless guns), which is nice.
This mechanic does make sense but it would have made a lot more sense if the game could actually calculate how many of those land-leases are being actively used in-war to determine how much war score you get. As things stand, you're just bankrolling the UK to put old guns in big storerooms and then show up & say "Hey look at those unused guns I've sent you, I deserve a bigger piece of the pie for that, right?"
Alternatively, would also help if the AI wasn't so open to land-leases and only accept it if their equipment was close to zero or in the negative. It could balance this broken feature.
US world domination without actually having any casualties.
By lend lease alone.
if you're lend-leasing overseas, don't send them more fuel then they can actually transport back home, it counts as "sunk equipment" and basically goes to waste
doing this with a nation that has land access to you is much better, because u can lend lease as much as you want and it will bring their war participation so fast so low, and bring yours up so fast so high. when you're doing it overseas its just limited to their convoys, really slow compared to having land access because if u researched oil tech and have oil or just civilian factories that u can trade for oil, you could lend lease even 35-40k fuel a day (compared to with convoys you could at most lend lease 8-10k to each UK and US) and its just so broken. i've played a ethiopia game where i balkanized the country for factories that they get from focuses, then reunited, traded oil with all my civs, and i got all of germany plus some of italy, all of japan and korea just by lend leasing the allies. i got less from the axis since i dont have land access to UK and USA war ended before i could lend lease them enough oil.
Thanks
I mean, this is pretty much what the U.S. did in both wars.
Well, looks like war profiteering is on the menu. How realistic. The implementation needs tweaking (you should get your own warscore, rather than taking it from allies), but providing lend-lease should be rewarded.
I kind of like this though…
Iy makes achievement runs easier
This looks like almost necessary if you show up late to combat. In a recent game as the USA I essentially took out Japan and Germany pretty much single handedly but was a late arrival in the combat. Peace conference was a joke as my “participation” was low compared to the other allies the Germans and Japanese had been beating down for most the game. Wish I’d been doing lend lease.
"As the US, you have a lot of fuel..."
No kidding. At the time of the war, the US produced about 2/3rds of the oil in the world .
Finally a way to not get fucked over with border gore, I honestly don't even mind giving stuff up but not stuff physically inside my own borders
Do you know if this was ever patched to make it not quite so strong?
Broken but so similar to the actual war, we (the USA) said it won WW2 (via material), when everybody knows it was the USSR (in blood).
honestly you don't even need to produce your own oil
if you have a sizable enough industry you can just buy oil and give it to people for free war score
I hate that it is exploitable like this, because I really like the idea of lend-lease shifting war participation, it feels realistic. But I can't think of a good way to balance it.
Remove the penalty for the receiving country? Now we're generating war score out of thin air by moving equipment around. Cap the gain and loss to e.g. 1000? Only works out if you lend-lease to just a single nation or we'll delete more war score from our allies than we gain. Both options are probably still better than the current system though.
Can you do a video on the updated field hospital ?
Still makes sense tho. If all the guns and gas are from you you should get a better warscore. Numbers are just too high.
The only bad thing about lend leasing the soviets is that if you play long enough they eventually trigger ww3 and they now you have to fight all the equipment you sent them.
nah just let the Germans cap them, then jump in and kill the Germans lol
Well that's kind of what the US did IRL lol
Well and is that actually feasible as other countries: I mean - yes you as the us have like endless oil and endless factories and the uk has a good amount of convoys to import that stuff. But is that really a thing for other nations? When i played as portugal in comintern i really struggled to lend lease SU because they had no convoys and i would have to lendlease them too to even give them the possibility to get so much lendlease...
do you also get war participation for giving your allies manpower to help garrison their occupying territories?
i hope this never get patched, sick of seeing the ai dominating the peace deal by just endlessly throwing away their troops.
Definately needs a rework on lend lease
There is a bug in my game. after 24.999 points, they jump to -19.000 so I ended the last in victory points
80% war participation, losses: 0 ...
I have noticed this already while playing as Etiopia and I was confuse by my war score... Mouse over displayed this... recieved lend and lease trades war score for stuff...
Hey bro can you
Make a video on best tank design for mp?
The true american way
I got Australia Hungary achievement from this from making nothing but trains all game lol
oh yeah while we're on this topic sinking ships gives you an absurd amount of warscore to the point where me playing UK had higher % warscore than the french and soviets just because i spent the entire game decimating the german fleet
Amazing, lol
how many days yo paradox launch a patch for it...
didnt the 300% work on light airframes too?
Maybe. It definitely works on medium air frames.
@@71Cloak nvm, they patched that
will this allow my italy to request german conquered territory?
Basically
Interesting. Does anyone know if sending foreign equipment (i.e. a bunch of old infantry equipment captured after a war) does the same?
Too bad we can't lend lease other resources like metal
Can you abuse this even more by lend-leasing your own puppets?
I just wrapped up my 30 year Switzerland game at 60,000 causalities and 8 million kills. This update has been the best and also the worst by far.
I hope paradox fixes this exploit AFTER fixing all other bugs and exploits
looks like someone in Paradox had watched some of TIK History's vids on the matter.
must be someone who got fed up by the corpo mentality and took the red pill, because 100% of the RP elements in the game have the exact opposite mentality and views on "history".
Historically accurate if you listen to those people that say "America's lend lease is what carried the war"
Its way too effective. You can basically lower everyone's else participation to 0, make Usa the only controller of the peace conference.
well the US was able for the UK and possibly france to decolonize and has been able to dominate (western) europe ever since so...
Some of the other modifiers don't seem completely right to me in terms of how they are weighted, but lend/lease just dominates/breaks the whole thing.
Admittedly, I enjoy this, because it creates the rather historical outcome where the only people who organize the peace deal end up being the USA, the UK, and the Soviet Union, so you legitimately end up having The Big Three. Although, the UK and USSR being lend leased to having barely any war participation, not as much
Lets exploit this with italy land leasing to Germany
Pacifist WC strats...
Guys I need help please. I play Germany and I have 35 weapon fabriken ( you know the stuff that produces weapons) alone for Inf equipment and its just not enough to supply 1,5 mio man. Whats wrong? That wasnt happening before.. Has someone tips or ideas what do? Im gonna lose the war because I dont have enough rifles to supply my men and I cant raise more divisions which I really need. Has someone else run into this problem?
Check resistance dude, this patch make resistance really deadly and you may lose a ton of manpower and guns for civilian oversight.
Yeah make sure to set ir to local police force for the least losses
bro i m germany main and you only need 72 div with okay template honestly just 3-5 mils on guns work enouch
What is your template?
Holy crap, this is so broken lol
thats f up
Romanian Point of View:
Too bad they brutally nerfed this
Haha that's how you get achievements that's hard to get.
Nobody paradox tests this game or does QA as well as you do.
İn fact im sure they dont do any at all
Paradox based this on what people think the USA helped on the eastern front