Hoi 4 - Breaking Down Division Stats - Why Defense Gives Breakthrough
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Going over what each stat in a division means and how some of the obscure interactions work. Explaining why General defense gives breakthrough. Probably more information than you need to know.
Video going into depth about how strength damage and org works:
• How Does Strength Dama...
Twitch.tv/71Cloak
12:04 I love the anger at the devs being so wrong here with the mistake of thinking "oh 6/4 is 1.5 is 50% larger!" hahaha. Love the depth of analysis in your vids.
Finally I can send this video to my newbie friends instead of badly explaining all the stats on my own, your channel is such a gem for HoI4 honestly!!!
3:05 When you are attacking, having higher reconnaissance denies the defender a higher chance to counter you, so you pretty much want to do it unless you want to get countered all the time
Bonuses for recon in the game are very very tiny. There are videos about this on various channels (I don't remember if on 71Cloak is on this one)
The logistics multiplication thing is pure gold. Well done, Cloak!
Great video 71Cloak. Your content has absolutely spoiled me on pretty much every other HOI content creator because now I pick up on incorrect things they say.
This game has a lot of funky math behind it and this channel is laying it all out bare
Term you're looking for is spaghetti code
Finally a video about this. I hope I can finally understand what soft attack actually means.
Soft attack is the amount of damage you do to soft targets
aka flesh bodies, aka infantry (and horses and bikes, oh and camels too, lol)
Tanks are hard (and more-advanced ones are harder than early lights).
And motorized is mostly soft but gets 10% hardness as soon as you finish researching mechanized 1.
In single-player, you run into really hard tank divisions so rarely that you can basically focus on soft attack alone.
Just blow away all the dudes surrounding their tanks, and you'll steam roll them.
Does weight also impact ammount of transport planes you need to paradrop? Or it's just one plane per division? Can one plane drop more than one div?
Yes. I just don't ever use paratroopers so I forgot they existed.
@@71Cloak Understandable. They have some niche uses, especially in "tiny country does world conquest" scenarios
I hate it when you ask for multiple options, and they answer yes.
Yes to which question??? 😆
But in this case, it's the first one - so planes needed for one division of that template :)
About this next part I'm not fully sure, but I believe one plane can drop multiple divisions, but just not simultaneously.
So if you have 20 2-width paratroopers and 1 cargo plane, then it'll drop 1 2-width division at a time, but in fairly rapid succession.
(in my experience fast enough on 3 green bars of speed for you as a player to have to pause to keep up giving them orders)
I've been waiting for this vid for over 15 years
Finally I have the perfect video to link in the subreddit when newbies are confused about stats
you are one of the rare channels that I can give like and respect even before watching the video, thank you.
Field hospital's mp is experienced mp, not the green ones. so even a basic hospital can make your division xp max like in 1-2operation. So in your offensive division, it is a must-have. because that exp buff is so damn hard.
I have been playing HOI for, I think, 20 years. 71Cloak is THE BEST HOI channel ever. Thank you and please keep doing what you are doing.
Only took 6 years after release to find a video like this!
The anger when talking about the wrong tooltip is so funny :D
This incredibly convenient video says the most complex but simplest things that are working deep in the game that half of HOI4 players don't know about.
This has explained it for me, what a lad for explaining a meme game.
This is exactly what I meant when I commented on your last video thanks dude! Love the content
I have 844 hours of vanilla HOI4 PVE and within 30 minutes of these videos I learned more of the combat system than from the game.
I hate paradox games.
I always forget what stats are what after looking at them, so this will be really helpful to repeat what everything does once in a while!
best channel for educational hoi4 content
If Defense is Breakthrough doesn't that mean that "Unyielding Defender" is superior to "Aggressive Assaulter"", since Unyielding Defender than gives +10% to both Defence and Breakthrough, while Aggressive Assaulter only gives 10% Breakthrough???
yep
Remember that Unyielding Defender is locked behind Inflexible Strategist while Aggressive Assaulter is locked behind Brilliant Strategist; you will basically never have to choose between them. That said, Brilliant Strategist is miles better than Inflexible for attack because it makes your generals roll for attack more often on level up. Breakthrough is nice but it's attack that makes you win battles on the offensive.
Yes, it does :)
@Zoro Asper
You're right *and* wrong, simultaneously, haha
You have to pick between them when selecting a general/field marshall ;)
@@MrNicoJac I know that but that's why I said that Brilliant Strategist is the best, for attacking. There's no real choice because you want your attacking general to have Brilliant Strategist, so you will never have to choose between the two traits
Love the vids, though want to point out "Slowest Max Speed" is actually 4, not 1. Well, more specifically, the Tank designer will not let you save a design with less than 4... and since everything else is that or higher... 4's the de facto minimum speed.
Thanks. did not know that defense thing.
The "game do math wrong" also applies to pp gain
Thank you for the tip on the 21 withd
and yet you didnt answer the most important question of all. why choose the name 71cloak?
Probably the first video you had to make on this channel xD
Reliability, equipment looting, and experienced soldier losses on a company has super minor effects partially because taking damage is destroying support equipment and strength, which is causing huge stat penalties on equipment looting/exp losses and trickleback.
On countries where you get passive focuses that grant these traits, the effect becomes far more pronounced as rather then rather low reliability support equipment getting destroyed *AND* the loss of strength basically deleting the support companies effect, you are only suffering strength penalties on the effect. So you are getting the bonus without an industrial cost, you are better version of the effect because damage taken is less effective, and usually a larger effect then the support companies give prior to 1942.
Paradox really dropped the ball on support companies, overestimating the industrial costs they are worth (Outside of soft attack boosters,) having the base level of the support companies be 1/4 of the actual worthwhile effect, and stacking too many penalties on them from damage taken relative to what line troops experience.
Do you think maybe you could do a video about when it’s better to annex vs when it’s better to puppet?
imo puppets are only good to shorten your frontline if you dont call them into any wars and when you demote them to integrated pupept to steal their factories, but you dont want to deal with the resistance. They are good for stealing navies, but this will be redundant with new peace deals. Soviets are good for puppeting since you can take the focus which gives you 50% of all your puppets' industry which makes you completely unbeatable if you have half of europe puppeted on historical focuses. Annexing is good if you have time to build compliance, which you will if you go for early game wars (like japan and china), if you take cores, or you have done collaboration governments spy missions (having 100% compliance is basically the same as having a core on the province, but having a collaboration government in some random area in africa is better then having 100% compliance because they will give you more factories because they will have generic focus trees, but generally speaking, 100% compliance is better to have in some developed areas like Western Europe, USSR, USA, then having a collab govt on them)
@@lmao6762 okay yeah thanks for the info man I was having this weird problem where I kind of thought we’ll since it spams you with the notification maybe integrates puppets are better than 100 compliance annex but then when I took Spain as Germany it gave half of it to German France and they revolted and and I couldn’t do anything about it and they wouldn’t give me the territory is was very frustrating and I wasn’t really really sure what to do but maybe from now I will just keep everyone annexed and suffer through the pop ups lol appreciate it man
You are the best HOI4 exploit channel I've seen.
point out a mistake: the right way to calculate supply use in 4:42 is ”0.76*0.8*（1-0.1-0.15-0.075/2）=0.4332. ”
Ah Paradox math. Maybe skip a DLC and get some people who can count.
Defensive doctrine applies the entrenchment bonus even without generals
here's a question for you, is trade back free trade worth it in vanilla? common assumption says it is, but common assumption also once said build civs till mid 38 so we know how "good" that is. free trade gives 9% research speed and 10% construction speed/factory output over limited exports, but means that once you start building military industry you wind up needing to trade a lot of factories, also you gain less value out of any rubber/infrastructure you build directly. Sure trade back on paper helps this but you are still losing some civs. If it is worth it initially when does it stop being worth it and become better to drop a trade law?
Trading back and forth should entirely negate the cost though. If you can trade with someone 1 for 1 you should always go for free trade.
@@ruukinen It's not 1 to 1, you do lose civs when trading back because the country receiving trade still pays consumer goods on that trade and the country buying resources has already paid for consumer goods. This is less of an issue as you lower your %CG so most players won't give tradebacks unless the person requesting it is on partial mob or better. Free trade is very worthwhile early because you have generally low resource consumption and the research/construction boni are most impactful early (+15% research speed is more impactful when you have 0% base, less impactful as you get research/constr speed tech).
The impact of free trade is a hard thing to test. For one, you have to turn off AI so it doesn't cancel the trades and you have to effectively micro multiple countries. Then you have to consider which countries you're testing with and whether they both benefit. A few examples of the complexity: Germany only needs rubber, likely from Siam and that's probably an AI that won't tradeback; Italy needs steel but Germany can't import anything worthwhile from Italy. Italy needs oil to train its fleet, but Romania gets fucked by King Carol so it's not efficient to trade with them. UK only starts to need aluminum imports in mid 38 while US needs rubber from day 1, but US also has a high %CG so UK is better off buying Al from Dominions or France. France runs out of non-mainland build slots so it's questionably worthwhile giving them factories, but they could use those factories to convert civs->mils. Allies can buy from Soviets and make them more powerful later, but that doesn't benefit the Allies until Barbarossa begins - trading with Canada while it has Great Depression will result in fewer total factories than buying from Soviets, but Canada's production makes an immediate impact at Alamein. Raj buying from Britain helps the Allies early, but it also puts more convoys at risk when Raj has the option to import from Soviets/SAf overland. Add all those country specific factors and then consider the relative benefit of %research/constr and you see why it's hard/impossible to devise an objective test.
I think the most important benefit of tradebacks is abstract - team morale and building communication. Does it hurt Germany to give civs to Italy when he could just keep them? Yes, but Italy is going to be much more cooperative if he sees that Germany is a team player. It's also important to learn players' identities via voice chat and early tradebacks give a reason for minors to talk.
@@28lobster28 I mean you lose most of the benefit of being on some more restrictive trade policy early as well since you wont be making use of all of your resources anyway.
@Cam Juric
You're overthinking it.
1. If you're going for an early war, you need output instead of research.
So, depending on whom you're playing as and what you're making and what resources you have, if you wouldn't need to import a lot, then free trade is probably better.
But with an early war, the difference is probably minimal anyways.
2. If you're going for a later war, then all of the benefits of free trade will snowball (more research and more construction), whereas the downsides won't matter as much (I try to hold off making the 1936 versions of things, so it's pointless to have many military factories early on, which means I don't need many resources anyway).
3. At certain points, I don't need all my civs anyway.
Like, a strong Germany that's still building up to an offensive can temporarily boost the Italian economy. But once you're Barbarossa'ing, you'll need all those civs to build new airbase and railways and do repairs. When naval invading, for instance, it's best if you can build a lot of level 1 harbors right away (especially when going for non-European places).
So it's not an either-or thing, like your comment suggests, but a timing thing too.
Now, there's a ton of mix-maxing to do here, but essentially this game is about diminishing returns.
I overanalyzed everything too, trying to get it perfect. But the difference between 90% and 100% is a lot more costly and yet much less important than going from 60% to 90%.
So don't over-worry about it ;)
Hope this all helps :)
big thing you're missing out on is that you're assuming you dont need to trade, Germany needs tungsten, aluminium and Chromium for whatever strat they're going to be wanting to do, they'll always be trading for those resources, those countries will need resources as well in exchange, German steel being necessary for all the axis minors. Most likely as Germany you'll want to go export focus by the time you start getting a few hundred mils but you're allies will always need more resources than limited will give
When your AA has projectile disfunction: aa
Great video but did not understood: "Why Defense Gives Breakthrough" thank.s.
What does an attack do to a division?
high hello and welcome i played 9/1 inf/art with grand battleplan as poland (assault branch of GBP) and as offensive units i used 15/4/1 motorized/motorized arty/motorized aa i had no air and i smashed the shit out of everyone. can you do some testing with this division of 15/4/1 motorized inf/motorized arty/motorized aa ? would be very thankful to check if its my fantasy or it really works
RE: Reliability. It looks like values are RSS'ed: sqrt(a^2+b^2...z^2)
How does Signal Company compliments the Grand Battleplan Doctrine, left side preferably? The extra planning speed would in theory be a net-positive towards a high max-planning build/gameplay style?
Battle planning will always be worse than microing, no matter what. You can get full planning bonuses while microing so there is never a benefit to letting the dumb AI handle things.
@@mainman879 can't disagree, although there's something satisfying about just letting the AI do the work and you still win. Easy mode, basically.
Now do ship stats lol
EDIT: don't, actually. Next DLC should have some big changes to naval combat
That’s the kind of nerd stuff I like
Would you recommend an entrenchment strat? Like a 42 with inf arty and some cheap light tanks with blades to stack it?
Thank you for this video, is it possible to do a combat/micromanaging guide? It would help people understand the game more
just make tank that have more than 400/450 breakthrough and soft attack and aim for encirclements. ai just cannot stand up to it
@@lmao6762 AI can't stand up to anything remotely competent. If you're minmaxxing, do it the MP way.
Minmaxing the MP way against the AI is dumb.
The AI doesn't play MP meta, but the MP way is a reaction to the MP meta.
So you'd be designing against something you'll never run into.
Which is dumb.
@@lmao6762 I wanna learn the combat mechanics so i can do challenging runs and stuff like that
@@MrNicoJac You'd be designing against something better which you won't ever run into until you play MP.
MP is where the meta is decided.
Kinda goes with the whole "you fight like you train" mentality. If you only ever minmax against AI, you'll only ever be better than AI, not a high bar.
Shoot higher.
Firstly thanks for the guide. Quick question though:
The 2% defensive bonus per entrenchment value, how is this applied to the numbers? Does it mean the enemy’s attack goes down 2% (less shots fired), your defense goes up 2% (more shots blocked), or your hp goes up 2% (able to take more shots)?
Your defense is 2% higher
Could you please do a video on carrier overcrowding and when or if it is a good thing to do?
11:45 isn't it "extra" dice? so meaning instead of 2 to 2 and 4 to 6 it is 2 to 4(2+2) and 4 to 10(4+6)? That's how I understand it (by the comment in that line). That would give you 57% extra org damage and 67% extra str damage
Edit: no that doesn't make a lot of sense but that comment confused me. Either way the tooltip is wrong
Its not extra, its a change of dice from a 4 sided to a 6 sided. Changing the EV of each roll from 2.5 [(1+4)/2] to 3.5 [(1+6)/2). There is no change for strength.
@@71Cloak Yes, that seems to be the case. I got confused with the comment saying "extra dice" because to me it seems to imply it's adding those dice to the existing ones but that was just some bad word choice by the devs
Is it worth increased entrenched on tanks? Guerilla trait on rommel for example... cheers.
So are tanks on offense better than on defense since they have more breakthrough than defense?
X0.5 speed is still fast
You make me wanna buy this game lol
Does armor give breakthrough?
Great video, you just forgot hardness and tank to mechanized ratio
I talked about hardness when I talked about soft attack and hard attack.
I'm not really sure I understand defense. So if the attack is lower than def, you take 10% of it as damage, but if the attack is higher, you take 40% of it? That sounds very binary
Maybe I wasn't quite clear about this. Under defense is each attack has a 10% chance of hitting and if it hits then damge roll occurs. Attacks over defense have a 40% chance of hitting and if it hits then damage roll occurs. Otherwise yes it is quite binary.
How does naval armor and piercing work?
Do defensive terrain bonuses such as those in engineers apply to breakthrough?
No. For terrains that are the actual province (forest, jungle, mountain etc) defense is a bonus to all combat stats on defense and offense is the same on offense.
I wish this was a written article. Too much info as a video.
are logistic companies good to reduce fuel usage ?
Yes and no.
It depends.
In general they are worth
1944 ai penetrates 100% of my divions no matter how much armor i put in. (Adv Recon tank, heavy flame tank etc.) They destroy my divions i know its probably CAS. Does CAS penetrate armor now?
CAS has always ignored armor.
@@sld1776 o h
Man you would think paradox along with other game makers would put a tutorial in the game that's worth a damn. Idk if it's lazyness or what.
Max breakthrough is 800. anything past that is waist of IC
wow this game is so dense and stupidly designed, huh?
Honestly a lot of the stats in hoi4 are a spaghetti coded mess and poorly explained to players. Ought to be totally overhauled.