Thanks for the honest review! I recently could try an antique (from about 1880) camera lucida, and I had the same problem as you experienced until the owner explained to me how to use the lenses: It looks the ones from back in the day all came with a set of lenses that basically set the ratio of the distances from the CL to the paper, and from the CL to the object for which both could be seen without blurring! So with the #12 lens I could draw a tiny flower from about 5cm away, with the paper being about 40cm away, and both perfectly in focus! I guess this is where the manufacturers of this new verion sadly did not completely follow through. But you could try it even with a simple magnifying glass, basically they'd use spherical biconcave lenses for objects that were closer than the paper, and biconvex lenses for objects that were farther away.
Super interested in your comment, I suspected the same about the lenses but have never tried. The strongest biconvex lens, how much magnification do you suspect it had? like was it a range 1x to 10x for example?
@@SunyJim So the strongest biconvex (labelled no 12) had a magnification of about 5-10x (I estimated a focal distance of about 5cm), then the no10 already ha a focal distanc of about 12cm. According to the instruction these would have been used if your subject is only about 1-8cm away, while the paper is about 30-50cm away. There are some nice instructions online, I'll try to find the link.
@@SunyJim I think I cannot post links, but if you google for perspectiveresources on blogspot, there is an article called: how to use a camera lucida. And farther down it as an image with three tables of recommended distance/lenses combinations.
The instructions say that if you elevate the gadget (on a camera tripod) you can get a larger image. David Hockney says that it took him a long while to get used to using it, but it just took practice.
I am so happy you made the video on the neo Lucida. Now I can return it. Kept making myself try to “make “ it work. Really wish it would have done the job.
Except I am 99.9% sure you were looking down the prism incorrectly, or that the neo lucida doesn't use the right kind of prism (which I doubt, since I used their specs to get a prism to make my microscope eyepiece lucida). I also have a late 1800's prism type camera lucida that uses the same prism size and it does not have the distance limits or tight field of view issue. I can do things across fhe table, across rhe room, or even across a lake with it, with no special auxiliary lenses. I have seen whereolooking down the prism incorrectly has led other people to disregard/dismiss the lucida until they were shown the proper way. You don't look into the prism, but actually right past the sharp edge. If the way you showed in the video was how you looked with your eye, and based on the focus/tight field of view/etc, I'd say you are likely doing it wrong. Prism type camera lucida were used to capture accurate images for landmarks, survey work, and with special lenses, getting extremely accurate renderings of insects and plantlife for scientific and documentation purposes.
Natmuh G, as I said, I have a late 1800's prism type lucida, as well as a lucida eyepiece that I made for my microscope using the prism spec.s I found on the Neo Lucida website DIY page. The specific page that details the dimensions of the prism may not still be there, I am not sure. But the prism is a borosilicate glass isosceles right angle triangle shape with the hypotenuse side/facet mirrored internally and when using it, the hypotenuse side is oriented so it is on the bottom, flat and level such that the internal mirroring faces straight up. You then look straight down at/past the 45° very edge that is toward/closest to you, with your eye about an inch or so away from the prism (very close). As you do this, you essentually see the paper below, and a horizontal strip of your subject superimposed on your paper sitting directly below the lucida. As you need to trace parts of your subject that are upward/above that horizontal strip of your subject that you see, you ever so very slightly shift your head toward your subject, and the horizontal strip of the subject that you see shifts/pans upward, and if you need to see lower on your subject, you ever so very slightly shift your head away from your subject, and it is like panning that visible band of your view of the subject downward. All the while, you continue to look perfectly straight downward (not on a slant). My apoligies if my description is unclear. But once you get the technique it is like riding a bike.. it comes natural and is very fast and easy to navigate your view of your subject and trace it, and the distance to the subject doesn't matter.. you can see farther away things just fine, but they will just appear smaller and smaller the further away that they are, of course. The prism by itself does not zoom or focus - your eye focuses on the subject just as if you were looking out straight at it from where you happen to be. All the prism does is redirect the image that is out in front of the lucida so that you can see portions of it while you are looking straight downward at the paper on which you are drawing.
I have seen the 1800 camera lucida on the internet, it seems that has different lenses for different distances, anyway thanks so much for your response and for your explanation, it would be nice to see a video explaining that type of camera lucida in particular.
thanks for sharing this experience! can you tell us about the figurine with foldable stand we see you drawing at 2:15 in the video clip? in drawing shops i often only see stiff wooden puppets with limbs that never bend to full extent
I bet you could make a custom camera lucida, you would just have to go to a glass shop and ask them to custom cut you a few pieces of glass and mirror the same size (2"×3" would be a good size), then you could 3D-print yourself a piece that'll hold the mirror and glass pieces in the same way its meant to be assembled and you'll have your very own custom sized Camera Lucida:) IMO It is a cool artist tool but making one for yourself whatever size you want leaves you feeling better about the tool and increases your use of it by having a bigger viewfinder hence more area to trace in one session
There are apps now for doing stuff like this. something I enjoy is getting a 3d model app, posing it, screenshotting the pose, then loading up the camera lucida app, and drawing it a few times, until I get a good feel for it, then I either take the sketches, or I start fresh in a digital art program on PC, and use the sketches as reference, usually having left notes for myself from drawing and redrawing. The lucida is talked about as a bit of a secret shortcut sort of device, unfortunately, but in reality it was and still is, a fantastic way to get a good sense of feel for what you're drawing and build comfort in things like perspective and depth, which is typically some of the trickiest things to learn. Anyways, enjoyed the video! I know it's like 4 year old, but the lucida isn't really talked about which is a bit of a bummer.
Weird. I have that device and use it to draw items 2 metres away while the paper is only about 30cm away. I adjust my distance from the subject to get it the right size on the paper. I also only use one eye. I didn't think it was designed to be used with both eyes open.
Very interesting indeed, and many thanks for an excellent overview of its rather few plusses and many minusses. The CL does seem limited in scope, hard on the eyes and not even very pleasant to use, so I doubt i shall buy one now! Best wishes!
I find it really interesting what you are saying about that to have them both in focus the item and paper, that they need to be the same distance away. But if you move the object further to get more in the image, it's out of focus. This also seems to be the same with the 'Tim's Vermeer's style comparator mirror it needs to be exactly at the mid point between the source image and drawing serface or the image shifts when you move your head. I'm sure that's what's missing on the NeoLucida, NeoLucida XL, and the Lucy Drawing tools etc, that was present on the vintage models, is the lenses. The vintage models seem to have come with a bunch of lenses which I'm guessing would allow you to position the model where ever you want, then adjust that focus to match the focal distance to your paper by putting a lens in front of the lucida, until they were both in focus. After watching Tim's Vermeer i suspect that the smaller prism lucida could also be used as a comparator mirror along it's edge for shading and that's why it doesn't need to fill the frame of the picture all at once like the larger Neo XL mirror models do.
When I was in first year college, I made an obscura the design worked that well I could have anything I wanted down on a piece on a 6x4 inch paper. If it wasn’t in focus I there was a slider on it to help get in focus. Up side you can draw anything. Down side everything is upside down and you have to be covered in a black cloth. I can send on the design if you would like. It was even held on a tripod. This method obscure was used by a very famous artist. Let’s see who can guess who it is. Give you a clue “ ear ring”
That sounds awesome. I really like this stuff from a technology perspective but I feel like the most practical thing is to simply get a little better at drawing. Covering myself with a black cloth? That's a hilarious amount of effort to draw something in a sketchbook.
it can help but at least it will not mess with your eye's. The girl with a peal ear ring. first ever successful drawing painting from it. Only his scale was larger. the one I made was a travel scale. Enough to learn from it.
Try focusing on the tip of your pencil and let the eyes soft focus on the image you are seeing. I had exactly the same problems you describe before trying this. It works pretty well, though not very ergonomic!
A guy I knew made something that did the same thing. Then he painted it. This was yrs ago but I don't remember him using one of these. He had some setup by a window so when the sun shined in a copy he'd be tracing was on his easel/canvas. Before I saw this I used to think he was an AMAZING artist. I don't remember him having the problems u describe.
Wow haha I didn't even know that was a thing. Looks way more effective. I got the NeoLucida from a buddy of mine and I was geeking out over the technology but it's so hard to use.
Get used to that sensation. My right eye has been massively out of focus for more than sixty years. You're doing no damage to your eyes. I can focus it just fine... but to do that I have to "turn off" my left eye, which is greatly dominant.
Ok i like the look of this thing i was going to buy one but i think i can make it better. I'm nit an artist but i like to fix technical problems or try to see if i can come up with solutions, and without actually having one listening to the problems you and others are having with it i thing i have the solution. If i do i might just do a quick video on the solution, it seems fairly obvious but without trying it out first it would not be right to say. So i better order some parts and give it a go.
@@jonnysharp9227 I've been bogged down with other things since making my post so have not had a chance to test out my ideas yet, maybe next year or later on in this year. But I will.
I waited 4 months for a glass / mirror device from Eternal Starry.net and it's not easy to put together! The mirror wants to slide on top the glass! Then I took the piece of sh*t apart and used a two sided scotch tape... that was better but when I tried using it..Its not easy trying to zero in on the subject.. like a long range rifle with out a sighting scope! And I payed $39.00 for it........tried going to the website and it is NOT there......any help or suggestions???
To the guy that is demonstrating the prism like device...is it already set up, ready to use??? I ordered a device from support@eternalstarry.net and it's a pain in the ass putting it together! The mirror keeps falling on the glass and I can't use it... and it cost me almost $40.00 I tried using double sided scotch tape with NO luck.....that device you demonstrate..is it already made???or is that a actual " prism"??please let me know when you have the chance..thank you..
Thank you for this. Hands down one of the MOST useful reviews of the NeoLucida.
Thanks dude!
This is both informative and hilarious. Thanks.
Thanks for the honest review! I recently could try an antique (from about 1880) camera lucida, and I had the same problem as you experienced until the owner explained to me how to use the lenses: It looks the ones from back in the day all came with a set of lenses that basically set the ratio of the distances from the CL to the paper, and from the CL to the object for which both could be seen without blurring! So with the #12 lens I could draw a tiny flower from about 5cm away, with the paper being about 40cm away, and both perfectly in focus! I guess this is where the manufacturers of this new verion sadly did not completely follow through. But you could try it even with a simple magnifying glass, basically they'd use spherical biconcave lenses for objects that were closer than the paper, and biconvex lenses for objects that were farther away.
Super interested in your comment, I suspected the same about the lenses but have never tried. The strongest biconvex lens, how much magnification do you suspect it had? like was it a range 1x to 10x for example?
@@SunyJim So the strongest biconvex (labelled no 12) had a magnification of about 5-10x (I estimated a focal distance of about 5cm), then the no10 already ha a focal distanc of about 12cm. According to the instruction these would have been used if your subject is only about 1-8cm away, while the paper is about 30-50cm away. There are some nice instructions online, I'll try to find the link.
@@SunyJim I think I cannot post links, but if you google for perspectiveresources on blogspot, there is an article called: how to use a camera lucida. And farther down it as an image with three tables of recommended distance/lenses combinations.
The instructions say that if you elevate the gadget (on a camera tripod) you can get a larger image. David Hockney says that it took him a long while to get used to using it, but it just took practice.
I am so happy you made the video on the neo Lucida.
Now I can return it.
Kept making myself try to “make “ it work. Really wish it would have done the job.
It's more of a historical novelty. Interesting but impractical
Except I am 99.9% sure you were looking down the prism incorrectly, or that the neo lucida doesn't use the right kind of prism (which I doubt, since I used their specs to get a prism to make my microscope eyepiece lucida). I also have a late 1800's prism type camera lucida that uses the same prism size and it does not have the distance limits or tight field of view issue. I can do things across fhe table, across rhe room, or even across a lake with it, with no special auxiliary lenses. I have seen whereolooking down the prism incorrectly has led other people to disregard/dismiss the lucida until they were shown the proper way. You don't look into the prism, but actually right past the sharp edge. If the way you showed in the video was how you looked with your eye, and based on the focus/tight field of view/etc, I'd say you are likely doing it wrong. Prism type camera lucida were used to capture accurate images for landmarks, survey work, and with special lenses, getting extremely accurate renderings of insects and plantlife for scientific and documentation purposes.
Could you share what kind of camera Lucida you have? I would be interested in researching more about it...thanks
Natmuh G, as I said, I have a late 1800's prism type lucida, as well as a lucida eyepiece that I made for my microscope using the prism spec.s I found on the Neo Lucida website DIY page. The specific page that details the dimensions of the prism may not still be there, I am not sure. But the prism is a borosilicate glass isosceles right angle triangle shape with the hypotenuse side/facet mirrored internally and when using it, the hypotenuse side is oriented so it is on the bottom, flat and level such that the internal mirroring faces straight up. You then look straight down at/past the 45° very edge that is toward/closest to you, with your eye about an inch or so away from the prism (very close). As you do this, you essentually see the paper below, and a horizontal strip of your subject superimposed on your paper sitting directly below the lucida. As you need to trace parts of your subject that are upward/above that horizontal strip of your subject that you see, you ever so very slightly shift your head toward your subject, and the horizontal strip of the subject that you see shifts/pans upward, and if you need to see lower on your subject, you ever so very slightly shift your head away from your subject, and it is like panning that visible band of your view of the subject downward. All the while, you continue to look perfectly straight downward (not on a slant). My apoligies if my description is unclear. But once you get the technique it is like riding a bike.. it comes natural and is very fast and easy to navigate your view of your subject and trace it, and the distance to the subject doesn't matter.. you can see farther away things just fine, but they will just appear smaller and smaller the further away that they are, of course. The prism by itself does not zoom or focus - your eye focuses on the subject just as if you were looking out straight at it from where you happen to be. All the prism does is redirect the image that is out in front of the lucida so that you can see portions of it while you are looking straight downward at the paper on which you are drawing.
I have seen the 1800 camera lucida on the internet, it seems that has different lenses for different distances, anyway thanks so much for your response and for your explanation, it would be nice to see a video explaining that type of camera lucida in particular.
The original camera lucida had different prisems to solve your problem with vocus
Yeah good luck trying to find one. I've been after one for a while to add to the vintage collection.
thanks for sharing this experience!
can you tell us about the figurine with foldable stand we see you drawing at 2:15 in the video clip?
in drawing shops i often only see stiff wooden puppets with limbs that never bend to full extent
I bet you could make a custom camera lucida, you would just have to go to a glass shop and ask them to custom cut you a few pieces of glass and mirror the same size (2"×3" would be a good size), then you could 3D-print yourself a piece that'll hold the mirror and glass pieces in the same way its meant to be assembled and you'll have your very own custom sized Camera Lucida:)
IMO It is a cool artist tool but making one for yourself whatever size you want leaves you feeling better about the tool and increases your use of it by having a bigger viewfinder hence more area to trace in one session
There are apps now for doing stuff like this. something I enjoy is getting a 3d model app, posing it, screenshotting the pose, then loading up the camera lucida app, and drawing it a few times, until I get a good feel for it, then I either take the sketches, or I start fresh in a digital art program on PC, and use the sketches as reference, usually having left notes for myself from drawing and redrawing.
The lucida is talked about as a bit of a secret shortcut sort of device, unfortunately, but in reality it was and still is, a fantastic way to get a good sense of feel for what you're drawing and build comfort in things like perspective and depth, which is typically some of the trickiest things to learn.
Anyways, enjoyed the video! I know it's like 4 year old, but the lucida isn't really talked about which is a bit of a bummer.
Weird. I have that device and use it to draw items 2 metres away while the paper is only about 30cm away. I adjust my distance from the subject to get it the right size on the paper. I also only use one eye. I didn't think it was designed to be used with both eyes open.
They advertised these in comic books in the 50’s…..”Draw Anything!” was the ad.
Very interesting indeed, and many thanks for an excellent overview of its rather few plusses and many minusses. The CL does seem limited in scope, hard on the eyes and not even very pleasant to use, so I doubt i shall buy one now! Best wishes!
The video for anyone who wanted to see my face super closeup in HD
hell yea. gimme those nightmares
There's a reason I don't shoot in 4k
Thanks for the review. Was helpful to me in shopping for my son (6).
I find it really interesting what you are saying about that to have them both in focus the item and paper, that they need to be the same distance away. But if you move the object further to get more in the image, it's out of focus. This also seems to be the same with the 'Tim's Vermeer's style comparator mirror it needs to be exactly at the mid point between the source image and drawing serface or the image shifts when you move your head. I'm sure that's what's missing on the NeoLucida, NeoLucida XL, and the Lucy Drawing tools etc, that was present on the vintage models, is the lenses. The vintage models seem to have come with a bunch of lenses which I'm guessing would allow you to position the model where ever you want, then adjust that focus to match the focal distance to your paper by putting a lens in front of the lucida, until they were both in focus.
After watching Tim's Vermeer i suspect that the smaller prism lucida could also be used as a comparator mirror along it's edge for shading and that's why it doesn't need to fill the frame of the picture all at once like the larger Neo XL mirror models do.
When I was in first year college, I made an obscura the design worked that well I could have anything I wanted down on a piece on a 6x4 inch paper. If it wasn’t in focus I there was a slider on it to help get in focus. Up side you can draw anything. Down side everything is upside down and you have to be covered in a black cloth. I can send on the design if you would like. It was even held on a tripod. This method obscure was used by a very famous artist. Let’s see who can guess who it is. Give you a clue “ ear ring”
That sounds awesome. I really like this stuff from a technology perspective but I feel like the most practical thing is to simply get a little better at drawing. Covering myself with a black cloth? That's a hilarious amount of effort to draw something in a sketchbook.
it can help but at least it will not mess with your eye's. The girl with a peal ear ring. first ever successful drawing painting from it. Only his scale was larger. the one I made was a travel scale. Enough to learn from it.
Try focusing on the tip of your pencil and let the eyes soft focus on the image you are seeing. I had exactly the same problems you describe before trying this. It works pretty well, though not very ergonomic!
A guy I knew made something that did the same thing. Then he painted it.
This was yrs ago but I don't remember him using one of these.
He had some setup by a window so when the sun shined in a copy he'd be tracing was on his easel/canvas.
Before I saw this I used to think he was an AMAZING artist.
I don't remember him having the problems u describe.
Really interesting video!
Fuckin love this review! Real and straight to the point. 😂
😉
I think it would be easier to use camera lucida apps
Wow haha I didn't even know that was a thing. Looks way more effective. I got the NeoLucida from a buddy of mine and I was geeking out over the technology but it's so hard to use.
They have bigger lenses now.
What kind of Naruto Dojutsu magic is this?
Oh, you mean Narudol? The fox boy? I love that amine
Get used to that sensation. My right eye has been massively out of focus for more than sixty years. You're doing no damage to your eyes.
I can focus it just fine... but to do that I have to "turn off" my left eye, which is greatly dominant.
It looked like a cool idea, but I'm glad I decided to look for youtube reviews first.
I won't be buying this.
Where do you get this?
Thank you!!
I'm sorry, the fish in the back just has all my attention, name of the piece?
+I'd love a version of the neo lucida in AR
It's Jared Muralt's shop.blackyard.ch/shop/view/sindbad-fish-city/prints
All of his stuff is great although it took 4 months to arrive in the mail!
or take a picture, import into Photoshop, set layer opacity to 30-50%, digital draw over it
I got the neolucidaxl. A piece of crap. Too small, images are way to dim, whole device is not well made. Etc.
Thank you
Can I use it on stereomicroscope please??
Yes, if you mean can you use a lucida over the stereo microscope eyepiece to draw something in front of you, in minature under the microscope.
Ok i like the look of this thing i was going to buy one but i think i can make it better.
I'm nit an artist but i like to fix technical problems or try to see if i can come up with solutions, and without actually having one listening to the problems you and others are having with it i thing i have the solution.
If i do i might just do a quick video on the solution, it seems fairly obvious but without trying it out first it would not be right to say.
So i better order some parts and give it a go.
What was your solution if you don't mind me asking ?
@@jonnysharp9227 I've been bogged down with other things since making my post so have not had a chance to test out my ideas yet, maybe next year or later on in this year.
But I will.
could you show us how is the prisma please?
how so?
in a video if is possible I imagine I can do it more large with resin and is possible that you can draw a complete image
So far it's not working and clumsy
Pretty much. I think it's more like a piece of art history than a practical contemporary tool
Just make the flex arm longer, simple
You should get a Lucy. Bigger area for viewing and easier to use
interesting
👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽🤘🏽
I purchased the neolucida xl
Junk, bulky, comberson, blurry.
Waist of money.
Will make my own Lucinda camera
How's the reverse engineering going, Leonardo?
I love you
love ya too
i was late again still a good video though
Thanks! That's why you gotta refresh my channel constantly just in case I actually post something. Will I post something this week? Who knows?
Get the iPad one
LOL see you next time. wince
that thing definitely messed my eyes up
STIMULUS eye am so sorry to hear that.
I waited 4 months for a glass / mirror device from Eternal Starry.net and it's not easy to put together! The mirror wants to slide on top the glass! Then I took the piece of sh*t apart and used a two sided scotch tape... that was better but when I tried using it..Its not easy trying to zero in on the subject.. like a long range rifle with out a sighting scope! And I payed $39.00 for it........tried going to the website and it is NOT there......any help or suggestions???
To the guy that is demonstrating the prism like device...is it already set up, ready to use??? I ordered a device from support@eternalstarry.net and it's a pain in the ass putting it together! The mirror keeps falling on the glass and I can't use it... and it cost me almost $40.00 I tried using double sided scotch tape with NO luck.....that device you demonstrate..is it already made???or is that a actual " prism"??please let me know when you have the chance..thank you..