Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that at the time in the High Renaissance that the Birth of Venus was painted, it was considered inappropriate for women to be artists' models. So maybe the face was modeled on a noblewoman, but she and almost all idealized figures like her are probably either modeled on lower-class working women like sex workers (again, somewhat questionable considering the artist's social standing) or simply the artist's own knowledge and observation. It's why a lot of women in Renaissance painting sort of look like muscular men with boobs glued on, or just don't look quite right in general. da Vinci's meticulous observational and anatomical research was the subject of great scrutiny precisely because of how unusual it was, and in the case of his dissections, how morally gray. Not to say that sex workers don't deserve to be immortalized for their roles in art too, but it adds another layer of "highly unlikely" to the puzzle. Even Artemisia Gentileschi mainly used herself as a model.
Also, friendly pronunciation tip: epitome is a 4 syllable word ending in a hard e sound, not a 2 syllable word with "tome" said as in tome like a book.
@@dorkbaitartWe are a proud people that come from families that did not read and therefore never had certain words spoken out loud to us. :) Tragic, I know.
@@dorkbaitart Her pronunciation is surprisingly widespread; I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes an accepted secondary pronunciation . (Also, she gave it three syllables, not two. 😊)
Using nude models is how you learn to draw anatomy and the human body. You will see a nipple. Shocking I know. Why is the female body still so taboo? We had male models too. But I find women nude=sex while male nude=funny. It is how TV views it too!
I don't really think that's true, it's way more crude to see a penis than a nipple, how many hollywood films have you seen fully displaying male genitalia? As opposed to hollywood films that have scenes with naked women
Recently I felt like scales were removed from my eyes when I saw a comment about how most nudes were basically fancy Playboy magazines for wealthy patrons back then. A lifetime of being told ''it's art, it has nothing to do with sex, people didn't see nudes that way back then'' basically brainwashed me into seeing those nudes as completely desexualized when the patrons themselves probably (secretly) didn't see them that way. I feel late 19th century French painters that pleased the Academy are particularly guilty of this (like Cabanel and his Venus). Or the fact Queen Victoria gave Winterhalter's Florinda to her husband as a gift. Or just look at how many nudes were modelled after mistresses!
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet but the woman’s national gallery of art in dc has gorilla girl posters from the 80s and show cases them proudly. I think that’s pretty cool that what once was woman protesting art museums could then be considered political art. Crazzzzy really. Amazing work you are so well spoken.
I don't know whether or not I should be surprised that this is not the first time I've heard someone say they lost their virginity in an art museum bathroom
Also to add that generally sex and sexuality that deviates from the norm, even in art, is often not accepted by not only conservative critics but also by audiences with (sad to say) fascistic tendencies. Often they'll sing the praises of nudity in greek statues, pottery, and in renaissance paintings, but anytime a museum has an exhibition that includes something that represents sexuality outside of the narrow male christian gaze, they're up in arms about how modern art is everything that's wrong with society, and how it shouldn't even be called art because it doesn't have the honor of the old masters. As an artist myself, I find it horrible, and I can't help but think about the closure of Bauhaus in Germany, and the museums opened by the third reich to expose "shameful art that could corrupt the masses". It's pretty easy to start having that point of you if you don't see art as an exploration of humanity and every facet of it (even "uglyness", sexuality and gender), and only as something that should look "good". Also, unrelated, but I have a small gripe about social media as well, you could say: I use pinterest to find art to inspire my own, but often contemporary art that includes nudity and sex is somewhat limited; when I try to save it, it doesn't let me, and when it finally lets me, hours later it gets taken down. It's not pornography, it's just nudity, so I don't get it.
Obviously, simply not liking a certain style or topic in art doesn't mean you have fascistic tendencies, it's the way that you see that art that informs that view. It's vitriol, the thought that it shouldn't exist and that anyone who makes art like that should be persecuted or worse, or that making art that way shouldn't be possible, that makes you a fascist.
pinterest censorship is hilarious. I saved a pin with a link to an article with bra patterns. The pin depicted a pair of heavily stylized breasts with some text. (The breasts were two half circles with each having a dot in the middle) of cource it got taken down
shoutout to the time i had to blur my entire entire chest bc pinterest’s ai got pissy it recognized the shape of my boobs but NOT the fact my nipples were completely covered like WTF pinterest could hang itself & no one would show to the funeral lmfao
I relate to Kathleen as a biromantic asexual woman. I hope to become a badass asexual aunty with a loving platonic or romantic partner and a cute cottage-core home with a garden and lots of animals.
wow, I went to UVIC but I'd never heard of Ellice house. I now work at Filoli house in California, and my boss and I have worked really hard to shift the perspective from the man who paid for the home, to the wife, who designed it, furnished it, decorated it, and everything in-between. I will definitely visit Ellice house next time I visit Vic!
17:53 Women just aren’t respected at all. Even now. Great you changed this at the historical house you worked at. Our voices are pretty much silenced and our opinions aren’t important. Sad the amount of women artists shown at the Museum actually went down a percent. Reminds me of the film industry where female award winners peaked with The Hurt Locker and went down from there. :(
As someone who lives in Iceland and grew up here we learned about s*x at like 8 and learned it at school at 11 yo and have to go to swimming lessons starting at 1 grade 6-7 yo were we are na*ed and also have many books about human body I think it’s so weird how many people not from Iceland and denmark (i have lived in isl and dk so I know) s*xulise human body like tf. And btw yes we do secculise somethings but like danm “your collar bone can be seen aaaaaaagh “ and like u live in hot country but have to were something to cover every thing I just think is so weird also i would probably faint from the heat which I have wile the locals were wearing sweaters😂there is a lot more things that I think are weird because somehow are secculised but this would be way to long but one last thing is when u come to Iceland don’t be surprised u see a commercial for secs toys we don’t care 😭😂only some do but they are like so delulu.
being a kid in spain during swimming class and seeing everyone get naked was horrific to me lol, i literally always came late because i waited for everyone to leave before I changed
0:44 I think about it cuz a museum was banned from instagram for classical pieces of art and has to do virtual tours and show photos in their website and pornhub
Have you seen the TV miniseries Little Gloria Happy At Last starring Bette Davis as the matriarch of the Vanderbilt family and Angela Lansbury as Gertrude Whitney of Payne Whitney fame. There's a big court case where Gloria Vanderbilt's louche 1920s lifestyle is contrasted with Gertrude Whitney's hobbies of sculpting and collecting rampant nudes. And when does a rampant nudes become classical art and thus presumably respectable. It's worth having a look at.
I do enjoy the comparison between mourning practices and sexual taboo in different societies you mentioned at the beginning of the video, but to say that Americans are surrounded by sex 'all the time' and are therefore comforable with it is just plainly innacurate. It is a massively prudish culture, where abstinence-only sex ed is still taught. Also, the fact that a video like this exists speaks to how you view human bodies as inherently sexual, when that just isn't true. The reason why the female nude is mostly seen is because most artists in history have been straight men, painting that which they found beautiful/attractive. If you look at the works of gay male artists, you will see many male nudes. If you look at the works of contemporary female artists, you will often see both male and female nudes.
Check out Amelia's accompanying blog post for this video! www.notyouraveragecistory.com/blog/john-singer-sargent-and-admitting-uncertainty
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that at the time in the High Renaissance that the Birth of Venus was painted, it was considered inappropriate for women to be artists' models. So maybe the face was modeled on a noblewoman, but she and almost all idealized figures like her are probably either modeled on lower-class working women like sex workers (again, somewhat questionable considering the artist's social standing) or simply the artist's own knowledge and observation. It's why a lot of women in Renaissance painting sort of look like muscular men with boobs glued on, or just don't look quite right in general. da Vinci's meticulous observational and anatomical research was the subject of great scrutiny precisely because of how unusual it was, and in the case of his dissections, how morally gray. Not to say that sex workers don't deserve to be immortalized for their roles in art too, but it adds another layer of "highly unlikely" to the puzzle. Even Artemisia Gentileschi mainly used herself as a model.
Also, friendly pronunciation tip: epitome is a 4 syllable word ending in a hard e sound, not a 2 syllable word with "tome" said as in tome like a book.
@@dorkbaitartWe are a proud people that come from families that did not read and therefore never had certain words spoken out loud to us. :) Tragic, I know.
@@dorkbaitart Her pronunciation is surprisingly widespread; I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes an accepted secondary pronunciation . (Also, she gave it three syllables, not two. 😊)
Using nude models is how you learn to draw anatomy and the human body. You will see a nipple. Shocking I know. Why is the female body still so taboo? We had male models too. But I find women nude=sex while male nude=funny. It is how TV views it too!
I don't really think that's true, it's way more crude to see a penis than a nipple, how many hollywood films have you seen fully displaying male genitalia? As opposed to hollywood films that have scenes with naked women
discussing the repercussions of the algo while using unalived was so cheeky. Loved it.
Recently I felt like scales were removed from my eyes when I saw a comment about how most nudes were basically fancy Playboy magazines for wealthy patrons back then.
A lifetime of being told ''it's art, it has nothing to do with sex, people didn't see nudes that way back then'' basically brainwashed me into seeing those nudes as completely desexualized when the patrons themselves probably (secretly) didn't see them that way.
I feel late 19th century French painters that pleased the Academy are particularly guilty of this (like Cabanel and his Venus). Or the fact Queen Victoria gave Winterhalter's Florinda to her husband as a gift. Or just look at how many nudes were modelled after mistresses!
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet but the woman’s national gallery of art in dc has gorilla girl posters from the 80s and show cases them proudly. I think that’s pretty cool that what once was woman protesting art museums could then be considered political art. Crazzzzy really. Amazing work you are so well spoken.
Watching this as a person who lost my virginity in the family bathroom of an art museum
love that for u
I don't know whether or not I should be surprised that this is not the first time I've heard someone say they lost their virginity in an art museum bathroom
this was almost me, love it
Ew that's disgusting.
Lemme guess, to your finger? LOL
Also to add that generally sex and sexuality that deviates from the norm, even in art, is often not accepted by not only conservative critics but also by audiences with (sad to say) fascistic tendencies. Often they'll sing the praises of nudity in greek statues, pottery, and in renaissance paintings, but anytime a museum has an exhibition that includes something that represents sexuality outside of the narrow male christian gaze, they're up in arms about how modern art is everything that's wrong with society, and how it shouldn't even be called art because it doesn't have the honor of the old masters. As an artist myself, I find it horrible, and I can't help but think about the closure of Bauhaus in Germany, and the museums opened by the third reich to expose "shameful art that could corrupt the masses".
It's pretty easy to start having that point of you if you don't see art as an exploration of humanity and every facet of it (even "uglyness", sexuality and gender), and only as something that should look "good".
Also, unrelated, but I have a small gripe about social media as well, you could say: I use pinterest to find art to inspire my own, but often contemporary art that includes nudity and sex is somewhat limited; when I try to save it, it doesn't let me, and when it finally lets me, hours later it gets taken down. It's not pornography, it's just nudity, so I don't get it.
Obviously, simply not liking a certain style or topic in art doesn't mean you have fascistic tendencies, it's the way that you see that art that informs that view. It's vitriol, the thought that it shouldn't exist and that anyone who makes art like that should be persecuted or worse, or that making art that way shouldn't be possible, that makes you a fascist.
pinterest censorship is hilarious. I saved a pin with a link to an article with bra patterns. The pin depicted a pair of heavily stylized breasts with some text. (The breasts were two half circles with each having a dot in the middle) of cource it got taken down
shoutout to the time i had to blur my entire entire chest bc pinterest’s ai got pissy it recognized the shape of my boobs but NOT the fact my nipples were completely covered like WTF
pinterest could hang itself & no one would show to the funeral lmfao
museums are inherently sexy to me. what does this say about me
I relate to Kathleen as a biromantic asexual woman. I hope to become a badass asexual aunty with a loving platonic or romantic partner and a cute cottage-core home with a garden and lots of animals.
I hope that for you too!
As a ace history nerd, I really enjoyed this video; thanks for sharing!
Thank you for the new channel suggestion!
This was a wonderful video, with nuance and heart and a subject that deserves way more attention 💕 thank you
Thank you!!
I had never heard of the V6g museum!! thanks for this educational content!
wow, I went to UVIC but I'd never heard of Ellice house. I now work at Filoli house in California, and my boss and I have worked really hard to shift the perspective from the man who paid for the home, to the wife, who designed it, furnished it, decorated it, and everything in-between. I will definitely visit Ellice house next time I visit Vic!
I just discovered your channel through this video. I really love this video and subscribed instantly.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent video!
Wonderful vid!
Thank you for sharing this info. Very enlightening.
17:53 Women just aren’t respected at all. Even now. Great you changed this at the historical house you worked at. Our voices are pretty much silenced and our opinions aren’t important. Sad the amount of women artists shown at the Museum actually went down a percent. Reminds me of the film industry where female award winners peaked with The Hurt Locker and went down from there. :(
As someone who lives in Iceland and grew up here we learned about s*x at like 8 and learned it at school at 11 yo and have to go to swimming lessons starting at 1 grade 6-7 yo were we are na*ed and also have many books about human body I think it’s so weird how many people not from Iceland and denmark (i have lived in isl and dk so I know) s*xulise human body like tf. And btw yes we do secculise somethings but like danm “your collar bone can be seen aaaaaaagh “ and like u live in hot country but have to were something to cover every thing I just think is so weird also i would probably faint from the heat which I have wile the locals were wearing sweaters😂there is a lot more things that I think are weird because somehow are secculised but this would be way to long but one last thing is when u come to Iceland don’t be surprised u see a commercial for secs toys we don’t care 😭😂only some do but they are like so delulu.
Also we got new president woooo she is a woman wwooooooo she is great woooooo. The last one was great he just didn’t want to be president anymore:’)
being a kid in spain during swimming class and seeing everyone get naked was horrific to me lol, i literally always came late because i waited for everyone to leave before I changed
Will you do a video on the censorship of art in general?
0:44 I think about it cuz a museum was banned from instagram for classical pieces of art and has to do virtual tours and show photos in their website and pornhub
Great video! It’s got me in the mood to paint something gay ❤️😁
Sorry offtopic, but I really like the way your green top compliments your hair and matches your eyes
Have you seen the TV miniseries Little Gloria Happy At Last starring Bette Davis as the matriarch of the Vanderbilt family and Angela Lansbury as Gertrude Whitney of Payne Whitney fame. There's a big court case where Gloria Vanderbilt's louche 1920s lifestyle is contrasted with Gertrude Whitney's hobbies of sculpting and collecting rampant nudes. And when does a rampant nudes become classical art and thus presumably respectable. It's worth having a look at.
great video 🎉
I thought the woman in the gorilla mask was from The Scissor Girls. :)
Very interesting
They don't let you, in my experience they get pretty mad
I am a transgender person and will definitely check out your friends podcast
epitohm
I do enjoy the comparison between mourning practices and sexual taboo in different societies you mentioned at the beginning of the video, but to say that Americans are surrounded by sex 'all the time' and are therefore comforable with it is just plainly innacurate. It is a massively prudish culture, where abstinence-only sex ed is still taught. Also, the fact that a video like this exists speaks to how you view human bodies as inherently sexual, when that just isn't true. The reason why the female nude is mostly seen is because most artists in history have been straight men, painting that which they found beautiful/attractive. If you look at the works of gay male artists, you will see many male nudes. If you look at the works of contemporary female artists, you will often see both male and female nudes.
32:07 ⌘the Venus of Willendorf dates to between 24,000-22,000 B.C.E.
ᎪᏞᏞᎬᎶᎬᎠᏞᎽ ............LOL
not 250.000 Years
its, 𝔱𝔥𝔞𝔱 𝔣𝔞𝔠𝔱𝔬𝔯 ჯ
😘
Whoops! When I was reading my notes, I must have added another 0.
@@professorpeachez I often do that with my bank account!
And you are welcome