A "bubble" would indicate that car prices, as in actual retail prices, not MSRP, went up due to some reason (e.g. chip shortage), then came back down. That's what happened during the pandemic in the US car market, to the extent that even used car prices somehow went up for several years. But that's not what is happening in China. They never had the chip shortage, since they made most of the chips that go into cars (as well as just about every other car component with the possible exception of tires), so car prices never went up. This here is an actual price war since car prices all across China are now cheaper than they've been in years. I did a quick google search. In 2019, this current gen VW Lavida mentioned in the video launched in China for a price of 128,000 RMB. It is currently being sold for 70,000 RMB!!! Same story for the current gen Toyota Corolla, which launched at 114,000 RMB, and is now selling well under 80,000 RMB. That's no "price correction". It is just a case of BYD taking the entire Chinese ICE industry to the woodshed, forcing every traditional automaker (and even the startups too) to drop their prices or immediately lose all their marketshare. And this, by the way, also shows why the 100% US tariffs on Chinese automakers is actually bad for the US auto industry in the mid to long term. It might keep the Chinese out and US car factories humming in the next few years, but insulating US automaker from China also means insulating them against the mother of all price wars going on over there. Imagine how lean and mean BYD and whichever 10 or so Chinese carmakers that manage to survive this price war is going to be about 3 years from now. Now imaging GM and Ford slow rolling their own EV transition in those 3 years because they don't need to compete ... because tariff. Which set of carmakers do you think is going to be more competitive after those 3 years?
I'm with people who say that the big 3 need to become the big 2 or swap tesla in and Stellantis out. Stellantis doesnt deserve to be there. It's not a domestic auto company anymore than toyota is and it doesnt sell enough.
Plus Vinfast EV's are not very good in many Car-Reviewers/Analysts opinions. Competition, dealer networks lacking, and, yes, delay that plant into infinity.
@@softwaresignals From what I've read, the build quality was acceptable, and the company has been nimble, meaning since all those press reviews were published, the software glitches are being resolved. That doesn't resolve the competition and dealer network issues, though.
Honda outselling Stellantis US. And they still sell sedans and only truck, a mid-sized unibody rig. Wow, BIGGER isn’t always BETTER?? CJDR is in trouble, b/c Stellantis IS NOT really wed to them, it’s just cashing in on US profits. CJDR better start looking out for their own future or …..
@@daves1646 the Jeep brand is being milked in Europe. They are launching new vehicles under the Jeep badge. Here in the US, the Ford Bronco seems to have really hurt Wrangler sales. I don't have data, just anecdotal.
With BYD building a plant in Hungry and Geely in Polland, Vinfast is probably concerned about future sales in the USA against Tesla. BYD also has plans to build an American vehicle in Mexico, where lineworker labor rates range from $5 to $8.75 per hour. Due to regulations for a company outside the US building in the USA, the Mexico plant can be built in half the time as a USA facility.
As you may already be aware, BYD is one of the top three car sellers in Mexico and a world leader in hybrids. The news that the US told BYD their EV would not be offered the Made-in-America $7,500 rebates has been noted but has yet to be confirmed in writing by the US government. Last month, BYD decided they still have plans to build hybrids in Mexico for the Central American market. Unless Marco Rubio's $20,000 tariff bill makes it through Congress, BYD will offer hybrids followed by EVs to the US market. If Trump gets elected, he will not stop Telsa from manufacturing cars in Mexico, which puts BYD in the driver's seat.
Lack of chargers, but at home it is 3 dollars for ev charge cost for 10 of normal fuel in a common v6. 3 to 400 percent less fuel cost and oil jobs etc... and i made dodge truck, honda hybrid suv, and tesla parts... hybrid is still the better bang from honda and toyota for common family who can charge for 3 at home and rarely go 50 miles or more a day... ev battery and solar is going to make ev superior now... its all getting so much better
@@dertythegrowerI live in Calgary, Alberta,Canadas Oil country, we have L2 charging everywhere , and Tesla modY so many I can't count, and Tesla SC near me 5 Kms. maybe Michigan is bad, they are a Fossil car lover and very few BEVs made there ,unless you think the Bolt numbers are big.
Of course Vinfast isn't looking to open in the USA anytime soon. The xenophobia against all things Asian doesn't help plus Trump vowed to ban all EV's... Keep that in mind when you vote in November...
Biden basically banned Chinese EVs. Both are awful for EVs. The only EVs Biden likes is the few thousand built by GM and Ford. He actively attacks the Chinese and Tesla.
VInfast sees that U.S. EV subsidies may be going away, if Trump & Republicans (congress) take over in early 2025. No subsidies, plus too much competition, plus bad reviews so far, plus quality/design issues,..... Add it all up and I think it's wise to think hard about the $4 BILLION dollar plant in America.
Call me a pessimist, but it wouldn't surprise me that these Chinese cars that pass the crash tests now will miraculously stop passing in the near future when people are buying them.
That'd be a pretty bad idea since the tests aren't only done once and mass recalls and investigations cost a company a lot of money. After Dieselgate VW would be the one most likely to do that if anyone was going to.
EV's cost less "long term" was the term long enough for the battery to require replacement? Because the cost of battery replacement typically exceeds the value of the vehicle.
My aunt has a 12 year old EV that has 90% of original capacity. Most 12 year old ice vehicle that need an engine or transmission replacement also total the vehicle. Especially a Mercedez which is what her EV is
Many Teslas exceed 200,000 miles on the odometer, why don't you price any German powertrain replacement of 300 horsepower, a recent Audi S5 that was refused warranty cost $30,000, and that was a V6 twinTurbo, Toyota has their Tundra debacle ,a TWIN TURBO V6 , replace the shortblock for failed bearings cost $30,000, You can Google it .
It is very ironic that Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis, is the highest paid CEO of any major automaker, while the total vehicle sales of Stellantis have been on a clearly downward trajectory for the past six (6) years. Talk about having a Board of Directors who is asleep at the wheel, or merely a bunch of puppets controlled by Tavares, this rivals what is going on at Tesla with Musk's obscene compensation package.
Only in the US market. In 2020, when FCA and PSA prepared to merge to form Stellantis, these two companies sold 6.2 million cars. Then they merged in 2021, with Tavares at the helm, and Stellantis sold 6.1 million cars. Followed by 6 million cars in 2022, and 6.4 million cars in 2023. Which means the European PSA side of Stellantis actually have been growing sales, while their American Chrysler units have been losing sales.
China's claim to the WTO is ridiculous! Those incentives for EV's come from taxpayers who live and work in the US. Why would a US tax payer want to give a Chinese company incentives for importing their product to the U.S. at below cost which ultimately will kill US jobs and thus decrease the tax base which was used for the incentives! If they want to sell in the U.S. they need to build in the U.S. and contribute to the local economy!
Because of free trade. US should be more open to the world and stop acting like a trade dictator telling who can or cannot trade with its citizens! Dont you value freedom?
So what makes a business successful? Well, I might not know the answer to that question, but one thing for sure that I do know is that in order to win a race, you must have a team of supporters that know, and understand not just the rules of the game, but the nuances of the game, and they must work cooperatively together in order to put the best possible team on the field. In other words, you must have competent leadership, trust, and leadership, because you could have the best products at the most competitive prices, and still go out of business, because of incompetent managers running your business, and all you have to do is take a look at a company called Enron, remember what happened to them? They went out of business primarily because they had an incompetent leader at the top, but not only was he incompetent, he was also corrupt, and he surrounded himself with a bunch of corrupt lieutenants, that was willing to do anything he directed them to do, and that means, lie, steal, and cheat, kinda like the head of the former administration, he was corrupt, and he was incompetent, and he surrounded himself with those who were just as corrupt as he was, as one of his most innermost circle, staffers stated, speaking on condition of anonymity, that working in Trump’s White House, was like a horror movie, wrapped up in a nightmare, on top of a dumpster fire, with all the backstabbing, circle firing squads, the yelling, screaming, chaos, it was no place that anyone wanted to return to, and we heard some of that testimony during the J6 committee hearings, that were broadcast live in primetime to a national TV audience. So you can conceivably get away with a few bad apples in your rank-and-file workforce, because they’re not decision-makers, but when you have your top leadership, including the top guy in your company willing to engage in illegal, criminal activities that has broad implication throughout your business, that could be very detrimental to your financial future health, and the survival of the company, because if you make enough bad decisions, you go out of business, and everyone loses their jobs. Cheers 🥂
No car manufacturer, including the Chinese EV marques, can fake crash test data as independent bodies outside of China can conduct their own crash tests. Australian drivers who own Chinese EVs are very happy campers indeed.
Teslas batteries are known to last without much degradation, but we know German ICE are a pain in the wallet past 100,000 miles and a rebuild of one can exceed $20,000- $30,000, go ask an Audi dealership for a quote.
@@user-cw9em3mo3w Go ask Adrian for a quote on a 10 year old Model S! From Carbuzz: "The same Recurrent report found reports of two Tesla Model S owners being quoted $22,000 for replacing their batteries. This amount was for 2012 and 2013 MY Model S units, indicating that the oldest versions of the electric sedan require the highest battery replacement costs. If you consider that a few 2012-2013 Model S sedans sold for around $20-$25k on Bring A Trailer last year, you can see why a battery replacement has the potential to exceed the vehicle's value."
EV tires last just fine, the problem is that many modern EVs have greater acceleration and torque response than comparable ICE products. Pretty hard to resist, they're like roller coasters on demand. But drive more conservatively and you wont pay for having too much fun.
@@jeffcarroll3831 Who is "we"? The vast majority of consumers do not care where something is made of the product materially improves their lives and is affordable. And, most will not think twice in buying a Chinese brand over a US or European or Korean or Japanese brand auto if the price is cheap enough.
I don't see the correction in the price of cars as a price war, it's just getting back to normal after a bubble.
Amen.
A "bubble" would indicate that car prices, as in actual retail prices, not MSRP, went up due to some reason (e.g. chip shortage), then came back down. That's what happened during the pandemic in the US car market, to the extent that even used car prices somehow went up for several years. But that's not what is happening in China. They never had the chip shortage, since they made most of the chips that go into cars (as well as just about every other car component with the possible exception of tires), so car prices never went up. This here is an actual price war since car prices all across China are now cheaper than they've been in years.
I did a quick google search. In 2019, this current gen VW Lavida mentioned in the video launched in China for a price of 128,000 RMB. It is currently being sold for 70,000 RMB!!! Same story for the current gen Toyota Corolla, which launched at 114,000 RMB, and is now selling well under 80,000 RMB. That's no "price correction". It is just a case of BYD taking the entire Chinese ICE industry to the woodshed, forcing every traditional automaker (and even the startups too) to drop their prices or immediately lose all their marketshare.
And this, by the way, also shows why the 100% US tariffs on Chinese automakers is actually bad for the US auto industry in the mid to long term. It might keep the Chinese out and US car factories humming in the next few years, but insulating US automaker from China also means insulating them against the mother of all price wars going on over there. Imagine how lean and mean BYD and whichever 10 or so Chinese carmakers that manage to survive this price war is going to be about 3 years from now. Now imaging GM and Ford slow rolling their own EV transition in those 3 years because they don't need to compete ... because tariff. Which set of carmakers do you think is going to be more competitive after those 3 years?
@@tren133 Thanks. Well thought out and I agree. So, the Big Boys are actually coming but mostly from China?
I'm with people who say that the big 3 need to become the big 2 or swap tesla in and Stellantis out. Stellantis doesnt deserve to be there. It's not a domestic auto company anymore than toyota is and it doesnt sell enough.
Yeah, and other than some office space there hasn't been a "Detroit" in a long time.
Better ROI for VinFast in Asia and less volatility with the 2024 presidential election.
BIngo! Trump wants to ban all EV's. Keep that in mind.
Plus Vinfast EV's are not very good in many Car-Reviewers/Analysts opinions. Competition, dealer networks lacking, and, yes, delay that plant into infinity.
@@softwaresignals From what I've read, the build quality was acceptable, and the company has been nimble, meaning since all those press reviews were published, the software glitches are being resolved. That doesn't resolve the competition and dealer network issues, though.
Sir, Your channel and information is valuable, I can't miss a video, keeping me informative everyday, keep rocking!! Thank you!!
Wow, *Bollinger* is still a thing... I thought they were another EV casualty of the 2010s.
@@charlesrovira5707 Yeah, surprised they're still around.
Honda outselling Stellantis US. And they still sell sedans and only truck, a mid-sized unibody rig. Wow, BIGGER isn’t always BETTER?? CJDR is in trouble, b/c Stellantis IS NOT really wed to them, it’s just cashing in on US profits. CJDR better start looking out for their own future or …..
@@daves1646 the Jeep brand is being milked in Europe. They are launching new vehicles under the Jeep badge.
Here in the US, the Ford Bronco seems to have really hurt Wrangler sales. I don't have data, just anecdotal.
Stellantis has priced itself out of the market by relentlessly increasing its suggested retail prices on products that are anything but new.
@BTC_Minarchist well I'd just take the fact that I see way more 2 door broncos than I do of 2 door wranglers like mine as a sign it's doing better
With BYD building a plant in Hungry and Geely in Polland, Vinfast is probably concerned about future sales in the USA against Tesla. BYD also has plans to build an American vehicle in Mexico, where lineworker labor rates range from $5 to $8.75 per hour. Due to regulations for a company outside the US building in the USA, the Mexico plant can be built in half the time as a USA facility.
The US govt called Mexico and basically shut down that plant in Mexico. It’s not happening anytime soon.
As you may already be aware, BYD is one of the top three car sellers in Mexico and a world leader in hybrids. The news that the US told BYD their EV would not be offered the Made-in-America $7,500 rebates has been noted but has yet to be confirmed in writing by the US government. Last month, BYD decided they still have plans to build hybrids in Mexico for the Central American market. Unless Marco Rubio's $20,000 tariff bill makes it through Congress, BYD will offer hybrids followed by EVs to the US market. If Trump gets elected, he will not stop Telsa from manufacturing cars in Mexico, which puts BYD in the driver's seat.
Lack of chargers, but at home it is 3 dollars for ev charge cost for 10 of normal fuel in a common v6. 3 to 400 percent less fuel cost and oil jobs etc... and i made dodge truck, honda hybrid suv, and tesla parts... hybrid is still the better bang from honda and toyota for common family who can charge for 3 at home and rarely go 50 miles or more a day... ev battery and solar is going to make ev superior now... its all getting so much better
central Michigan.. sadly no walmart lots or tesla charger in my part making county.. the whole county lacks ev chargers, ironically
@@dertythegrower So why is that?
EV's are only really practical if you can charge at home or drive a tesla
@@dertythegrowerI live in Calgary, Alberta,Canadas Oil country, we have L2 charging everywhere , and Tesla modY so many I can't count, and Tesla SC near me 5 Kms. maybe Michigan is bad, they are a Fossil car lover and very few BEVs made there ,unless you think the Bolt numbers are big.
Hey Toyota!! Could we all buy a China-manufactured Camry? Even if we added $3000 to ship it, it’d be affordable AND fuel efficient.
Of course Vinfast isn't looking to open in the USA anytime soon. The xenophobia against all things Asian doesn't help plus Trump vowed to ban all EV's... Keep that in mind when you vote in November...
Ha ha, Trump has said everything. He is for everything he was against the day before yesterday.
@edkk2010It does not help that the United States believes there were POW/MIA secretly kept by Vietnam after the war.
Biden basically banned Chinese EVs. Both are awful for EVs. The only EVs Biden likes is the few thousand built by GM and Ford. He actively attacks the Chinese and Tesla.
The dirty secret ....EVs are super cheap to make
Thanks, John.
EU and US were sleeping on Chinese automakers too long, and now they have lot of catching up to do
Are Honda and Acura sales combined like sneaky Hyundai seems to be doing to look more important w Hyundai, Kia, Genesis?
yes, just just like GM is combined
👍
VInfast sees that U.S. EV subsidies may be going away, if Trump & Republicans (congress) take over in early 2025.
No subsidies, plus too much competition, plus bad reviews so far, plus quality/design issues,..... Add it all up and I think it's wise to think hard about the $4 BILLION dollar plant in America.
Stellantis is irrelevant.
Wrong!
False.. they have cummings engines, and a huge contract with many states for city and police vehicles
They are extremly sucessfull and have high profitmargins!
In the meantime Tesla does even worse
they are circling the drain in the usa
Call me a pessimist, but it wouldn't surprise me that these Chinese cars that pass the crash tests now will miraculously stop passing in the near future when people are buying them.
Why? Cia propaganda?
@@remix-yy1hsToyota did it recently, made a specific vehicle for testing. Strangely fell silent on this channel.
That'd be a pretty bad idea since the tests aren't only done once and mass recalls and investigations cost a company a lot of money. After Dieselgate VW would be the one most likely to do that if anyone was going to.
@@ethanwelner1230 Just like the fuel economy tests? Yet even the western mfgs still cheat. You think China is above cheating? 🤣🤣🤣
@@nguyep4 Yep. Those stories get buried, quick.
EV's cost less "long term" was the term long enough for the battery to require replacement? Because the cost of battery replacement typically exceeds the value of the vehicle.
My aunt has a 12 year old EV that has 90% of original capacity. Most 12 year old ice vehicle that need an engine or transmission replacement also total the vehicle. Especially a Mercedez which is what her EV is
For example my truck is worth about $10k and the engine is about $18k to replace (pre-covid pricing)
Many Teslas exceed 200,000 miles on the odometer, why don't you price any German powertrain replacement of 300 horsepower, a recent Audi S5 that was refused warranty cost $30,000, and that was a V6 twinTurbo, Toyota has their Tundra debacle ,a TWIN TURBO V6 , replace the shortblock for failed bearings cost $30,000, You can Google it .
Marlon Brando yelled “Stella!.. Stella!" in the stage production and the film version of “Streetcar Named Desire.” I'm doing the same right now 😂
It is very ironic that Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis, is the highest paid CEO of any major automaker, while the total vehicle sales of Stellantis have been on a clearly downward trajectory for the past six (6) years. Talk about having a Board of Directors who is asleep at the wheel, or merely a bunch of puppets controlled by Tavares, this rivals what is going on at Tesla with Musk's obscene compensation package.
Only in the US market. In 2020, when FCA and PSA prepared to merge to form Stellantis, these two companies sold 6.2 million cars. Then they merged in 2021, with Tavares at the helm, and Stellantis sold 6.1 million cars. Followed by 6 million cars in 2022, and 6.4 million cars in 2023. Which means the European PSA side of Stellantis actually have been growing sales, while their American Chrysler units have been losing sales.
@@mikedx2706 Stellantis is either in the woodshed or on the way. Others will follow, I think.
times have changed for sure if china made cars are now safe .
And thing made in Murika like rams and f 150 s have exemptions to safety regs.
China's claim to the WTO is ridiculous! Those incentives for EV's come from taxpayers who live and work in the US. Why would a US tax payer want to give a Chinese company incentives for importing their product to the U.S. at below cost which ultimately will kill US jobs and thus decrease the tax base which was used for the incentives! If they want to sell in the U.S. they need to build in the U.S. and contribute to the local economy!
The same reason that US and EU complaining China use Chinese tax money to incentive their EV maker. Let me recall the term, unfair trade practices?
Because of free trade. US should be more open to the world and stop acting like a trade dictator telling who can or cannot trade with its citizens! Dont you value freedom?
@@KC-vx7gj free trade is how we lost most of the manufacturing in the u.s
@@JD-yx7beThe prosperity of the US economy depends more on Free Trade than most care to admit.
@@stargazer3828I don't trust any organization that is a "world" organization. WHO, WTO, WEF, or the UN.
Sketchy
Maybe if they didn’t give their workers that big pay increase the price of Ram wouldn’t be ridiculous for pick up Trucks
You should never buy a vehicle described by the company to investors as it's "most profitable" product.
So do you want some cheese with that whine?
So do you wanna work for less?
So what makes a business successful? Well, I might not know the answer to that question, but one thing for sure that I do know is that in order to win a race, you must have a team of supporters that know, and understand not just the rules of the game, but the nuances of the game, and they must work cooperatively together in order to put the best possible team on the field.
In other words, you must have competent leadership, trust, and leadership, because you could have the best products at the most competitive prices, and still go out of business, because of incompetent managers running your business, and all you have to do is take a look at a company called Enron, remember what happened to them?
They went out of business primarily because they had an incompetent leader at the top, but not only was he incompetent, he was also corrupt, and he surrounded himself with a bunch of corrupt lieutenants, that was willing to do anything he directed them to do, and that means, lie, steal, and cheat, kinda like the head of the former administration, he was corrupt, and he was incompetent, and he surrounded himself with those who were just as corrupt as he was, as one of his most innermost circle, staffers stated, speaking on condition of anonymity, that working in Trump’s White House, was like a horror movie, wrapped up in a nightmare, on top of a dumpster fire, with all the backstabbing, circle firing squads, the yelling, screaming, chaos, it was no place that anyone wanted to return to, and we heard some of that testimony during the J6 committee hearings, that were broadcast live in primetime to a national TV audience.
So you can conceivably get away with a few bad apples in your rank-and-file workforce, because they’re not decision-makers, but when you have your top leadership, including the top guy in your company willing to engage in illegal, criminal activities that has broad implication throughout your business, that could be very detrimental to your financial future health, and the survival of the company, because if you make enough bad decisions, you go out of business, and everyone loses their jobs. Cheers 🥂
Then there's that new Ram inline 6 , who is going to take a chance on that in its first year of production?
Chinese crash tests? You are smoking funny weed.
No car manufacturer, including the Chinese EV marques, can fake crash test data as independent bodies outside of China can conduct their own crash tests.
Australian drivers who own Chinese EVs are very happy campers indeed.
Yup, EV is cheaper to own... assuming you get rid of it before it gets old.
Battery swaps only seems most logical..
@@dertythegrowerAdrian leading the way on battery swapping since 2013! Got the California tax credits to prove it!
Teslas batteries are known to last without much degradation, but we know German ICE are a pain in the wallet past 100,000 miles and a rebuild of one can exceed $20,000- $30,000, go ask an Audi dealership for a quote.
@@user-cw9em3mo3w Go ask Adrian for a quote on a 10 year old Model S! From Carbuzz: "The same Recurrent report found reports of two Tesla Model S owners being quoted $22,000 for replacing their batteries. This amount was for 2012 and 2013 MY Model S units, indicating that the oldest versions of the electric sedan require the highest battery replacement costs. If you consider that a few 2012-2013 Model S sedans sold for around $20-$25k on Bring A Trailer last year, you can see why a battery replacement has the potential to exceed the vehicle's value."
my aunt owns 12 year old ev that still has 90% of original capacity. It has only needed basic suspension work and coolant flush
ccp crash test is def not trust worthy lol
for sure ha
It's identical to EuroNCAP
More credible than the CyberBust crash results (Chief Engineer babysmurf9000)!
Where's your evidence?
@@leviandhiro3596 Google it yourself
JDPowers include the two sets of tires you'd go thru on an EV in 5 years????? Nope - There's $3000 alone! Theory disproven.
EVs don't go thru tires any faster if driven normally. If you are peeling out at every green light then they can go through them quickly
I'm tired of this nonsense...
EV tires last just fine, the problem is that many modern EVs have greater acceleration and torque response than comparable ICE products.
Pretty hard to resist, they're like roller coasters on demand.
But drive more conservatively and you wont pay for having too much fun.
It's simple really, we don't want Chinese EVs here, 🤷
People seem to have little problems with Buick, Lincoln, Volvo and Polestar, many of which are made in China.
@@jeffcarroll3831 Who is "we"? The vast majority of consumers do not care where something is made of the product materially improves their lives and is affordable. And, most will not think twice in buying a Chinese brand over a US or European or Korean or Japanese brand auto if the price is cheap enough.
@@michaeloreilly657 good point
@@BTC_Minarchist the vast majority eh? Doubtful
@@jeffcarroll3831 yes, the vast majority.
Tesla Headline News: babysmurf9000 angling for a Presidential pardon! Krupski now a certified whistleblower! ReuterTaxi still permit-less!
copypaste bot
strange bot...
@@dertythegrower Yet, I’m more coherent than Adrian’s grok!
@@dertythegrower👍
BOTS make comments like "Tesla Rules" and never respond. The bobbbobb model 4663 is more intelligent than that.