We pumped a kite with HELIUM!
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2019
- We pumped one kitesurfing kite with helium and another identical kite with air, and then we gave it to our local crew to see if they could figure out which kite was filled with helium! The results of this blind test may surprise you!
We also experimented filling a foil kite with helium - check out how it went...
___
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Back in 2004 and 2005, I began using helium in my kites when riding at Sherman Island on days when the wind was out of the north, which typically has lots of gusts and lulls. My thinking was that during moderate lulls, when an air-filled kite would likely fall out of the sky, a helium-filled kite might be able to stay flying, thus avoiding floundering around waiting for the wind to come back enough to relaunch the kite. For big lulls, I expected the helium kite would fall out of the sky just the same as an air kite would. As for if or how the kite would fly differently with helium compared to air when each was properly powered, I didn't have any preconceived notions.
What I learned was that I wasn't able to tell if the helium helped keep the kite in the sky during moderate lulls, because when I encountered a lull and the helium kite stayed in the air, I couldn't be sure that an air kite would have fallen for that same lull. I also couldn't say for sure that I noticed any significant difference in the way the helium kite felt compared to the air kite, when the kite was properly powered.
So, why did I continue to use helium for about 2 seasons in those pesky north winds? The reason is that when the helium kite did go down during a lull, it would normally end up floating on the tips of the struts with the leading edge up (I was riding full-on C kite style North Rhinos with huge leading edges during that time), which greatly facilitated relaunching the kite when the wind came back up just a bit. I'd probably still be using helium today in north winds there, if I hadn't eventually gotten smart and figured out that even with helium in the kite, riding north winds at Sherman Island was more grief than fun.
I say the girl has the uplifting personality... I always imagined this too... Great test ! Now we need spidersilk kites and Kitesurfer built floating cities at sea with deep anchored kelp beds and abalone farms. Cute Cute Cute ~
Great experiment! All you needed was to eliminate the subjects influencing each other's responses. They should not be able to share their answers with the others.
Good point! Next blind test we'll try to keep everyone from chatting about it on the beach (easier said than done, lol)
Wow! Y'all are nuts! Genius!
Very cool video.
Serious subject with so serious experts!!!👍😜😎
I love!
Haha, yes - we like to keep it serious at all times 😎😉
Awesome!! I was so excited when you told me you were working on this and couldn't wait for the video to come out and answer the one question people have been asking since the beginning of kiting. I don't know whether to feel sad or happy that that debate has now been solved... I was also surprised to see that 6/10 chose the wrong kite ... anyways great video and really fun touch to have everyone speak in a helium voice ... if only you had some 360 video footage ;) lol
Thanks! Haha, we felt the same when uploading the video - we had been so excited about it for so long, we felt a little sad that it was done!
I would imagine a kite filled with helium might fly worse actually. When you turn the kite down it is going to fly downwards more slowly because there is a buoyant force from the helium always pushing the kite up. This might explain why 6/10 people thought the air kite was filled with helium. They were expecting helium to help when it actually might hurt.
The best way to measure the difference would be to weigh the kites folded up, then measure the volume of air in the kite, and then calculate the buoyant force of that same volume of helium. Then you could know exactly how much lighter the helium kite was. Obviously there are a lot of variables here, but very interesting test! Great video.
Thanks! Good point - make sense :)
U a scientist bro
Nice fun experiment. It's good how more people guess which kite has helium incorrectly. I get to work at a company which makes inflatables for filling with helium and there is special materials you need to use to prevent the smaller helium molecules from passing through the bladder. That material is NOT polyurethane like the kite bladders. So these people likely saw the kite with helium becoming deflated slightly and then becoming less responsive when flying. That's my bet.
I had thought about this years ago, so cool to see it tested! One thing that would be interesting would be to find out the exact volume that each kite has, and then use whatever pressure the kites were pumped to figure out the exact weight of just the air in the one kite, and just the helium in the other.
yeah, we thought about it, but after seeing the results from blind test and weighing strut bladders we decided not to continue with figuring out exact weight as it would be too time consuming
I really enjoy your videos, but this one is the top! Thanks and keep them coming!
Thanks Susan! This one was a lot of fun to film, glad you enjoyed watching it :)
Just another very interesting video for kiters! Thanks.
Thank you! 😊
Great, I was often asking me that question!
Thank you all for your efforts!
No problem, glad you liked the video 🙂
This is the Brexit of kitesurfing...
But... but.. but... it's gonna be so much better!!
Great video and thanks for busting the myth!
Thank you! It was a fun myth to bust :D
Love your creative approach!
My guess about the different beaviour (not weight) of the 2 kites is the difference in the stiffness of the LE (therefore different arch/shape and bar pressure). Whether this was caused by the different compression ratio of helium and air... we need to ask the experts or read a bit online. But to validate if this is true, you can just pump same 2 kites with 2-3 psi diffent pressure and check if the bar pressure is different.
As for the foil kite - you could make it fly without any wind if you use a very thin, non-stretchy mylar film bladders (like the metalized film party baloons), as you'll get sufficient stiffness without the extra weight of the higher pressure helium in a rubber baloon. Challenge thrown! ;)
Thanks! Great points :) we’ll keep these in mind if we do a follow-up video!
Absolutely brilliant 😂 loved the video.
I've started removing struts from old kites.Fly first without struts inflated to see what one's are needed.The difference for foiling is amazing, drifting resistance to stalling ❤️.
Thanks! Nice idea - we may have to try that ourselves :)
that's a smart idea/test! Maybe this is the new kite-myth-busters challenger.
I've removed struts 1 3 5 from a 2012 10m ltd north Dyno amazing difference.
It now reverse launches when other kites the same size cannot. 3.1kg now 2.6.
Could have removed all struts but not necessarily when av 11 knots with the foil.
Tell Laurie to FB message if more information needed 😊
@@s2oooo soo those are the pros ... what about the cons? How does it affect Stability? turning speed? Boostng ability? etc...
Have used it av 18 knots 0 problems no deformation.
Everything is better .
If I was to be fussy if you sheet out fully there's slight fluttering, but that increases the drift ability 😊
Funny report, congratulations!
I was in a party store two weeks ago and wondered about whether this would work. Great video and mystery solved.
We heard from a couple of people that it made a difference and we had to test it. As previously mentioned in other comments, it would be quite impractical not to mention expensive in the case helium made a difference
Couple things: would be interesting to have two air filled kites and say one is helium and see what people say, could also try with a heavy gas to see if that affects anything. Interesting video.
Thanks! Great suggestions we'll keep in mind :) We're also thinking of comparing a kite with very lightweight fabric against normal fabric
Finally! Always wanted to see someone to a good investigation into helium kiting. Although one comment, wouldn’t helium give MORE bar pressure as the steering lines would be pulling up? Good Job from Freedom Kitesurfing Philippines Catamaran.
Thanks! Yes, that would make sense that there would be more bar pressure, but at the time we weren’t thinking that 😄
Great experiment. Loved it.
It was so much fun! Thanks for participating :)
Most creative helium experiment ever!!
Haha, we like to think so!
Thanks for doing that experiment I've always wondered. I figured you'd be able to jump higher.
No problem - we were curious about it for a while :)
Very nice and interesting. Great job .
Thanks! Glad you liked it
so good!
Thanks
interesting to see the Placebo effect in effect lol fun group of friends you have :).. man do I Miss Kiting!! :(
Haha, yep! We do have a great crew. Hopefully you can kite again soon!
@@OurKiteLife I Hope so its been years!! any how I enjoy your video's have a good one! :)
That was fun to watch 😄😄👍
Thanks, glad to hear 😊
Helium under 7psi pressure doesn’t displace as much of the heavier atmosphere. When the gas was expanded as in the foil kite, the weight difference was significant. So weight difference in the LEI kite is minimal. That tank full of helium is floating is it? Even if that tank full helium was in a magic weightless tank with 3000psi of helium it wouldn’t float because of the density.
Drag is more important than weight once the kite is flying. Cool experiment and interesting to see the riders reactions.
What if the kite was positively buoyant? How could you dive it?🤔 and when you released the chicken loop it would float up 😂
Very interesting, fun & entertaining.
Thanks!
Best damn video!!!
Thanks :)
Nice to see someone test this out, I'm curious what PSI you used for both kites?
8 psi
Funny one ! Great content
Thanks!
Great video well done
i have always wanted to see what happens when you do this!!
It was something we had wanted to try for a while! Glad we weren’t the only ones 😄
Now we have the new OR Aluula kites, maybe try using helium on those. After all, it did lift the Soul’s trailing edge. Admittedly though, that was a lot more volume than a leading edge tube. My guess, there wouldn’t be any noticeable difference as the current test. Love your videos!
we will try to compare aluula vs foil kite vs another brand kite, will do same kind of test to see if weight makes any difference
Well you solved a question I had, "forgettaboutit."
Where is the video shot at?
It’s in Toronto, Canada
interesting thanks ! makes you also think twice when it comes to trusting people when they tell you about kite feedbacks
Exactly!!
Heyyy I love your videos !!! sooo coll!! what do you used for filming ? tele lense ? 70-200 or more ?
Thanks! We use a Sony RX 10 iv, 24-600
This was going to be my next question!
Well i was kinda expecting it! kite is a wing and the forces created are through movement in the wind... Its not a ballon... Having few grams liter kite doesn't make any difference...
Haha creative idea
Thanks!
Well done
Thanks!
I don't think bar pressure would be affected by helium since it's lifting the front of the kite, not the back, that would be more so the different bars having small differences in the stretch of the lines?
It’s hard to say if it was small differences in the bars or just differences in expectation
Cool experiment, can you do this for your next one:
1. 100kg guy in 45knots on a 7sqm
2. 60kg guy/girl in 45knots on a 7sqm
Send it as hard as you can from a perfect flatwater location. Measure how much higher the featherweight goes.
We’ve been thinking of doing a video on weight. If we wait for 45 knots in Ontario it may be years before we can film the video though 😄
@@OurKiteLife We do get a bit spoilt here in Perth with the heavy winds. Our winters are completely psycho.
The helium kite would have more bar pressure.
Was the helium filled kite any lighter than the air at the same PSI ? If so by how much?
negative, no difference
Wicked fun you guys i love dumb stuff
I love this one , great and so original !
ps: you guys might have just discovered a new way of kiting with the helium lifting the kite up on no wind day 😱😱😱😱
Thank you 😊 haha, yes - everyday is a kite day 😉
Theres one circumstance where i could see a helium filled kite aerofoil being useful thats if you are using it as a sail replacement on a boat ⛵if it displaces enough to remain bouyant in still air ... It will stay up in intermittent winds. till the wind speed picks up and aerodynamic lift can take over and start moving the vessel ...😎 Otherwise you have to use a stub mast to stop it dropping into the sea and if still moving getting snagged or pulled under the hull. That or you have to take it down to mast hight or stow it..
It particularly suits Cats. and Trimarans ...and as an alternative or assist to Empowered vessels like the Silent yatchs... Where they dont want the problems of constant handling on long passages especially at night.
Haha fly in no wind haha whats the point, you wont go anywhere... might aswell hold a balloon 🤣
Well...nice to see this being confirmed, but I always thought that if Helium is lighter than air, it's because it's less dense. But since you inflated the 2 kites to 8psi....then the density becomes the same, isn't?
No the density is not the same, it's the pressure that is the same... Density is not equal to pressure.
How about making a comparison air to NOS? Need less pressure for rigidity
Where do you get it? How much does it cost?
😲😲😀😀🤩🤩👍
LOL!
I wonder if ALUULA kite would stay in the air if pumped with helium 🤔
Did not know Dr. Gru liked kitesurfing.....
Dr. Gru loves kitesurfing :)
These kites have huge wing areas compared to the volume of gas in the ribs. This was a badly designed test for the effect of helium-augmented kites.
For me I found the helium filled kite moved supper fast. Looping was fast. It made flying the air filled kite boring.
You guessed it right away!!
If you compress helium you have to use more helium to get the same pressure. That means the helium kyte can actually be more heavy. It depends on the pressure. So when you lower the pressure you will get more lift. Thats what you saw with the foil kyte.
Servus und schöne Grüße aus Deutschland
It seems like everyone has only one common difference BAR Pressure. Did you use the same bar ? If not then maybe you should have tuning both bars same way or actually use only one bar for both kites. If dont know how look up the next video :)))how to make your old kite fly like new :)
Identical bars tuned the same :)
Question are you kitesurfing on a fresh water kite. As the floation vests! ...as fresh water you defo sink over salt water
Hey - yeah, we are kiting on fresh water. It’s also the law here to wear life vests - you can get a pretty big ticket if you get caught without one
@@OurKiteLife should explain that in one of your videos... 1 its fresh water. 2 a hefty fine. If not wearing a floation vest...
being lighter than air, helium would cause more upward pull & bar pressure
Makes sense!
@@OurKiteLife goes to demonstrate how our brains so often misconstrue the evidence.
Less than 400g in fluid mass difference, according to my estimation(see details of the calculations below). The inertia difference of the kites should not be noticable while kiting.
rho air,1.205,kg/m^3
rho he,0.1664,kg/m^3
,,
kite size,15,m^2
LE dia,0.25,m
LE length,4.5,m
nb of struts,5,
strut dia,0.15,m
strut length,1.5,m
,,
Vol_LE,0.22,m^3
Vol_struts,0.13,m^3
Vol_tot,0.35,m^3
,,
m_air,0.43,kg
m_he,0.06,kg
delta,0.37,kg
Thanks so much for this Oliver, how about a foil kite (perfectly sealed)? Would it make a difference?
P.S. The number of struts is 3, also from our calculations the kite volume of the Stoke was just under 50 cubic feet of air, if it helps
@@OurKiteLife 50 cubic ft seems way to high. I have 0.71m^3(conservative assumptions) and you have 1.4 m^3.
Now for the foil kite, it makes big difference: 4.67kg(Foil kite size 15m assumed). See details below, I adjusted my first approximation for pressure, and at the bottom, the calculation for the foil kite.
rho air,1.205,kg/m^3,,,
rho he,0.1664,kg/m^3,,,
,,,,,
kite size,12,m^2,,,
LE dia,0.25,m,,,
LE length,8,m,,,
nb of struts,3,,,,
strut dia,0.15,m,,,
strut length,1.5,m,,,
,,,,,
pressure ratio,1.50,inflated/atm pressure,,,
,,,,,
Vol_LE,0.59,m^3,,,
Vol_struts,0.12,m^3,,,
Vol_tot,0.71,m^3,,,
,,,,,
m_air,0.85,kg,,,
m_he,0.12,kg,,,
delta,0.74,kg,,,
,,,,,
rho air,1.205,kg/m^3,,,
rho he,0.1664,kg/m^3,,,
,,,,,
foil kite size,15,m^2,,,
thickness,0.3,m,,,
,,,,,
Vol_tot,4.50,m^3,,,
,,,,,
m_air,5.42,kg,,,
m_he,0.75,kg,,,
delta,4.67,kg,,,
I expected the kite with helium to stand in the air like a balloon and this could be a difference specially kiting in the waves with no hands... So disappointed with helium. Will keep my $200 😁
I think you all make a mistake... If helium is lighter then the bar will be heavier as you are pulling down. Thats why is lighter to pull down with a heavier kite...i think
Yup that makes sense :)
this is in etobicoke ontario! right down the street from humber college
Correct ;)
What about trying hydrogen next time?
Aluula
We're looking forward to trying it
Choose an aluula kite with 5strut
Tube kite come off it groggy lei
All that gear you lot wear....looks ..... comprising
Yes, it is. But Lake Ontario turns over and the water temperature can be as low as 5*C in the middle of summer. PFDs are also required by law, and the police are known to patrol by boat.
eh....Clover Point Park?
negative :P
Now try one inflated with sulfur hexafluoride!
Sounds like a great idea, we’ll leave that one up to you :)
What if you pump it up with nitrogen? Jk😆
😄😄😄
A dress and a harness, that's my kind of women 🤙
Over time, the helium will leach into the bladder material and make it brittle. Any benefit, if there even was any, would be outweighed by severely shortening the lifespan of the kite.
Isn’t helium a noble gas? Shouldn’t it be neutral?
@@OurKiteLifeYou would think that. But its a small molecule, actually a single atom, which slips between the molecules of other materials and interferes with chemical bonds. Hydrogen does the same thing, which is why its so hard to build a hydrogen powered car. If you just pump hydrogen gas into the carburetor of a regular car instead of gasoline, the car will run for a while. You don't have to modify the engine at all. But the engine block will eventually crack. The metal gets brittle.
Look at a rubber helium balloon a few days after it has been filled. Not only is it deflated, the rubber of the balloon doesn't even snap back the way it did. It's stretched out and wrinkled.
Interesting - thanks for the explanation
3:26 NASA, are you listening?
Maybe not, but some of the crazy lads who go into the private spaceflight industry are:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace#Airship_to_Orbit_project
Would've been more interesting if you gave an overview of perceived behaviour. People clearly noticed differences, but they didn't know which characteristics were caused by the Helium, making the results inconclusive.
And both never flew a tube kite?
Eternal Vo
opps
It is not realistic anyways to use Helium since there is limited quantity on Earth and i am sure people don't want it wasted on Kitesurfing :)
True :) it would also be extremely expensive!
5:58 bruh thats 🧢, if you accidentally choke for some reason there's a pretty high chance you'd die 😃👍
I used hydrogen and it was much better until it blew up and I ruined my kite.
Let me guess without watching the video.
You wasted your time.
The only effect you will get is that the kite will deflate because or the size of Helium atoms.
5 hours in the lab can save you 10 minutes in the library.
H weight = 0.1785g per liter.
N weight = 1.25g per liter.
There is about 15~20 liter of air in a kite
Thus your kite is about 1g per liter lighter if you use helium instead of air.
10m2 kite is about 3.4kg
Thus you made 20/3400 = 0.5% difference in the weight.
Whahaha watched the video, and guess what....
Was also thinking that for the same pressure there would be more helium to fulfill the requirements
There will be no difference between a helium-inflated kite and an air-inflated kite, except that a helium kite will lose pressure much faster because helium passes through the fabric of the cylinders.
Wow what a great waste of a finite resource
100%, hopefully after watching this video no one will attempt it! Also the party balloons, is probably way bigger waste of helium than our experiment
@@OurKiteLife agreed! Love the channel, can't wait to get into the sport!
Living vicariously through the vids until then
i'm bad at physics, but isn't asking the question, "which weighs more a kite filled with 15psi of helium or 15psi of air" the same question as "which weighs more 1kg of feathers or 1kg of steel"
God damn what a kook fest.
I've worked in a gas plant for 45yrs. Pure Hydrogen 99.999 is lighter than helium gas. Only more explosive. Do not try this.🤙
Haha, wasn’t planning on it :D
But really, you tested it on a 20 knots session???
This has no sense at all, should have tried it on a really light session.
I can clearly put a bet that traction of a 20 knots wind will erase any difference between helium and air pressure in the bladder.
Dumb as hell. So sad :(
I don't know where you got 20 knots from? We tested it out in as light as 10 knots on the hydrofoil, and average windspeed was 15 knots, which is the bottom end for that kite.
@@OurKiteLife my bad, misread the chart 😮
Apologies! I am the dumb one on that one 😣
What a waste of an increasingly rare element
For sure! During our research post-filming we encountered articles saying that helium supplies are on the decline. Hopefully this video will prevent others from ever trying to pump their kites with helium. Additionally, knowing that helium is an integral part of the cooling system of MRI machines, we feel like they should ban the use of it in party balloons.
@@juliebladel658 It's been well known that helium doesn't make a difference for a long time. A simple google search would have shown posts since 2005 debating the idea. This is not a public service, this is excess