Soterion Coil - It just take's time. Everything come's full circle eventually. My guess is Kid's today are more into Video game's and anything connected to them. They don't have regular toy's and imagination's like we had growing up. A 6yr old would rather play a N3DS than play with Toy's.
My personal opinion is because the 80s saw a huge resurgence in patriotism, and now, in today’s world, the media and the world at large, which is still a huge selling market for Hasbro, has a very negative opinion of the US.
Spot on with everything sir. I was able to get through about 5 minutes of these films before i shut them off. now thats 10 minutes of life i will never get back.
This was a very good and truthful video and am just sadden by the total lack of love Hasbro has for the Joe franchise anymore thanks for posting this video.
Years after my vintage collection had been stolen, I was overjoyed to see new modern versions on the shelves. I had hopes of recapturing some of the glory of my original collection. I bought a Destro/Breaker two-pack, along with some multi-packs of Cobra troops only to discover that they were now made of fragile, gooey, bendy cheap pvc, rather than abs. The figures came right out of the package warped so they couldn't even stand correctly and the plastic felt oily. I had no confidence that these things would last five years before getting sticky, powdery, or just drying out and splitting at the joints. They were also quite expensive despite being so cheaply made. I took them back and settled for collecting the 8 inch Sigma scale ones instead for my Joe fix, and what happens? CANCELED!!! Can't win if you're a Joe fan nowadays...
People keep ripping on croc master. But who never thought of having crocs or some other dangerous beast protecting their homes. I like the way the comics used him and his engineered crocs. Protecting the swamp parts of the island.
One of the things I always have wondered is why they cannot just stick to the original idea. These "geniuses" are paid millions to come up with something they think is brilliant but is no more than rip off or vague shadow of what made glorious the original concept. After all, those who write the scripts are not true fans.
Aw, come on, the Fridge figure was cool! I loved it! Dr. Mindbender was cool, too. He was like a Bond villain. G.I. Joe never started to jump the shark until the early 90s.
once again you make a lot of great and well thought out points. i thought the second joe movie was a step in the right direction,but still not perfect. i continue to be a big fan of gi joe despite its mis steps,every franchise has them nothing is perfect. this was another great presentation.
I'm an old-school G.I.Joe fan in my 40s (and one who, like most of us, is much more fun of the military style than the later on neon stuff), and I feel the need to say that Renegades was an awesome cartoon! In fact, I would go so far as to say that, other than the opening sequence of the movie (just the opening mind you, not the whole film), Renegades was the best G.I. Joe cartoon of all time. Also, the whole point of the show was to be a 21st-century origin for the G.I. Joe team. They were not actually G.I. Joe until the end of the last episode. Neither was Cobra fully formed until the end of the season. Had we gotten a second season, it likely would've been something much more traditional. Sadly, very few people gave it a chance, and it died on the vine. It had the potential to finally revitalize the franchise, but it seems that neither kids nor old-school fans gave it the chance.
Wow! You basically said everything that I felt when Rise of Cobra was released. I personally can't stand the recasting thing that Hollywood does. I do, however like SLJ as Nick Fury. But as you pointed out, a character like Ripcord who was barely an after thought in the grand scheme of the series is recast as a main character & played by Marlon Wayans? I would have loved to seen him play Alpine, b/c Alpine was rather witty in the cartoon. And The Rock as Roadblock? Roadblock was constantly rhyming in the cartoon... But somehow they couldn't work that in to the feature film? Overall, as someone who absolutely loved GI Joe as a kid & still has a decent collection, the movies were such a massively absurd disappointment.
Do you guys honestly think kids 20 years from now will look back on the GI Joe films w rosy nostalgia the way we look back on the 1987 Masters of the Universe film?
I love all of your GI Joe videos guys :D I think that it will not come back :/ I am trying to get the vintage now as much as I can :D I think that's all we will have
Nice! Very constructive! The Power Suits (If that's what they call them) in the first live action movie, I THINK was based on a Sigma Six concept. I can't say for sure because I never was able to sit through on episode of that incarnation of G.I.Joe. I just saw parts of it when I'm channel surfing. :D
I went to my local toy store today and noticed many of the generic toylines (soldier force, stop vs.scum, real life heroes, etc.) have better quality vehicles, and some lines still have good quality playsets. I personally believe that because they don't have an animated series to follow, they are allowed to try any crazy thing they can. For instance, I saw a figure 3 pack with a vehicle; what more could you want? If you compare that to the rise of cobra figures and vehicles where it's pretty-much the same old characters with new gimmicks. For instance, the guns that fire missiles that the new figures hold are slightly different, and the vehicles have to match the movie. Your thoughts?
The "Live Action" G. I. Joe films were ridiculous! More like afterschool TV Movies! Chuck Norris' The Delta Force, The A-Team were way better as film and TV series. And, yes, several characters were dumb like Croc Master, Raptor, Quick Kick, Spearhead, Dr. Mindbender, and Cobra-La. The best G. I. Joe cartoon? G. I. Joe: Renegades. And Correct- it was Stalker- NOT Duke! - who was Hawk's second-in-command. Plus, Scarlett's relationship with Snake-Eyes should've been emphasized. The accelerator suits were dumb riffs on Iron Man.
Hollywood doesn't properly research the source properties of most reboots, and if they do, they don't attempt to understand the reasoning. Like making Clarks parents so young in Man Of Steel, or having Jor-El be a never dying AI. They are not being smart about the dramatic implications, because they don't understand the choices made by the previous writers (which were likely done for very good reasons), they are just fascinated by "making their mark," even if their mark is not dramatic, comedic, or even clearly understood.
True story: As a kid in the early 1980's I used to write letters and send drawings to Hasbro of figure and design concepts. I loved how Storm Shadow came with a wolf and I told them to push that concept, I proposed one of the figures should come with an alligator and another one with a wild boar ( my father was a hunter and we had a taxidermy boar head in our basement) I never heard back from Hasbro, but when Croc Master and Gnawgahyde (he had a warthog not a wild boar, but close enough) came out I bought them up and was satisfied... I am not saying my letters to Hasbro had any impact on their action figure line, but it's possible. Who knows?
I do agree with almost everything. But one thing we have to understand is that Hollywood don't care anymore about the quality of movies. They care about how good the CGI is and how much money they can get by adding more CGI into a movie. When the first G.I. Joe movie came out I was like "wtf ?!". It's like with BayFormers... they take a great franchise and do what they want with it and don't care is it similar to the original at any point. Now they took the TMNT and look again what they did to a great franchise. It's all about money now. And the sad part is... kids now want to see those movies becouse they never had an oportunity to see the original version.
Probably because he wasn't specifically identified as a mountain trooper. He was special forces with flight time logged in the movie. Stalker would have been the most logical choice, what with Wayans' character being the loyal sidekick of a centerpiece character. Unfortunately, "stalker" has a negative connotation attached to it these days. In addition, the guy spends much of the movie chasing skirt, especially Scarlett. Thus I have no real problem with the ROC Ripcord--choice of name, character, actor, or otherwise. He's an amalgamation of a couple of well-known Joe archetypes--the loyal friend (Stalker) and the consummate wise ass (Clutch, Shipwreck, etc.).
Christ, it's not that big of a deal. The original Ripcord was merely a knock-off of Red Ryan from Challengers of the Unknown. Despite the Bongo the Balloon Bear storyline from the comics, he was never that well-developed. Even less so in the cartoon. The movie took what was basically just another Joe and made him into a decent, prominent character. ROC Ripcord is a good, loyal soldier and confidant of Duke, who settles nicely into his role as the heart of the team. What exactly is the problem here, aside from the change of skin color?
Fantastic panel, I agree with pretty much all your points, enough with the crappy movie toys!!! at least they are releasing a 50th anniversary line with remolded vehicles and figures.
I enjoyed this show. Looks like you had a tough crowd at the convention. I was a big fan back in the 80s, but didn't give the movies a try for the same reasons you mentioned. What is GI Joe cast in a bunch of identical body suits? And, yeah, where do the zonked out movie execs get the idea to cast Ripcord? Even when I was a kid, I played Ripcord without a personality!
Regarding the Snake Eyes lips thing, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the second toy version of him that the first movie's costume was based on have lips? Probably a lot less pronounced, but I'm sure they were there. This doesn't take away anything from what you said on the whole, really just me being pedantic!
***** You got me second guessing my self now! Absolutely correct about the box art, but the Joe box art had many instances of not being a 100% faithful representation of the toy (Wet Suit in shorts for example) and I'm still convinced after scouring photos for hours last night that the Snake Eyes toy had lips. So we're both right!
You know what am still waiting for a good gi joe game they could do a fp shooter or a tp shooter think of all of the characters gi joe has and all of their unique weapons. You could play as a joe or a cobra do campaign for both sides and multiplayer think of a deathmatch playing as your favorite character one can dream
gijoe still has a huge fanbase. the movies and the gijoe renegades cartoon spawned a new generation of fans. gijoe right now is dying out but it will make a comeback
I always thought Marlon Waylon should have been stalker hated that the ripcord character was changed and put up front as a main character and also your right Marlon Waylon looks a lot like stalker
I agree to all the points there. Hasbro is killing G.I. Joes and rather focus on their top line toys like Transformers and my Little Ponies. I like Transformers as well but i grew up on G.I. Joes. It's really sad to see toy stores not packing any G.I. Joes products, feels like my childhood being ripped apart.
You are right in the fact that they are focusing on the transformers line, but have you seen it recently as a collector I have bought one of the newest line they are all just extremely simple looking now and not fun so while they are focusing on them they have turned off a lot of the collectors in the process
Um Issue number one of the comics. A “ High Resolution Hologram” is used to plan the rescue mission. So for the movies to use holograms is not that much of a stretch.
It blows my mind that G.I Joe has two storylines - the realistic comic book version and the sci-fi'ish cartoon version. There are countless characters and scores of vehicles... yet this was still not enough for Hollywood to work with. I do not see what is so hard to understand when they make these reboots and cartoon to live action adaption that people want to see the characters and vehicles they grew up with!
Nice panel M&M I wish I could attend some of these and talk with you guys in person. I agree w/ Mike about Hollywod F-ing these franchises up majorly and seriously between all the knowledge you two have and my writing skills the three of us could have written a better GI Joe script, or Transformers or any other toy franchise Hollywood's looking at and do to it what Nazi Germany did to Poland in '39. I have a feeling I could have swallowed a ream of office paper and an ink jet tank then pulled a better script out of my ass than what was used for either movie. What does it say when the three min intro to the animated GI Joe film was better than either of the live action ones? It almost seems as if the directors & writers never read the comics, watched the G1 show, or even looked at the toys, were given the basic concept and said "F-IT Lets do whatever sounds good. Now where's my booze and meth?" Actually I always thought Croc Master kinda fit, consdering the TerrorDome is a swamp based hq, if you got a psycho who trains crocs as pissed off guard dogs it could have worked. The one I loved and had towards the tail end was Raptor, but he never fit really. Training hunting birds is one thing, but for a group like Cobra- can't buy it. Besides his costume looked too heroic. I mean he looked like a variant of Hawkman or a new Silverhawk, not a member of a snakebased terrorist orgainization. Maybe a merc hired by Destro after he broke away from Cobra and techno enhance the hunting birds. Mike was 100% right about the Cobra followers, when your dealing w/ zealots and true believes you got a whole new danger level than dealing w/ folks forced to do whatever. Hitler, Napolian, Julius Ceaser, Jim Jones, David Korisch, yeah all they needed to establish was Commander was one charismatic s.o.b. finding folks down on their luck, out of work, convincing them of another way. Too bad you guys didnt get a full hour that would have been a real kick ass discussion. By the way I got a suggestion for a look back for the cartoon & toyline & everything else that goes with it, Gargoyles! Ever consider it?
I thought it was great -- really respectful to the original while adding a new depth without sacrificing anything. It had a clear understanding of who these characters were and what made GI Joe and Cobra tick. A lot of fun.
Sadly, G.I. JOE RESOLUTE was the last property to take the G.I. JOE franchise seriously. Now here we are some 35 years later in the desert wondering when or if G.I. JOE will resurface with a film, or television series, live action or animated, worthy of the franchise. Thank you for doing this panel back then.
***** Oh I hope I didn't sound like I was defending the good Doctor...I'd have substituted Crystal Ball instead though. I think we can all agree *that* guy is pretty weird looking.
Yoda Pagoda I think the Dr. Mindbender character transcended his goofy "orthodontist turned mad scientist" over the top character design. I mean the guy created Serpentor, so that gives him some legitimacy. I collect mostly 82-86 stuff. That's my cutoff - I allow Sci-Fi and some of the others based on Sunbow 'toon cred and how I played with them as a kid.
I'm really surprised Cobra-La didn't make that list. I actually dug those guys with their creepy Lovecraftian undertones. The animated movie went overboard making them the end-all, be-all of Cobra though. I also thought Crystal Ball had potential as some Svengali-like mystic--Cobra's very own Rasputin. Overall, I'm disappointed G.I. Joe's brief foray into the paranormal in '87 was short-lived. Could have led to some really neat things if done right.
Decently presented. I'm late to the discussion, but I'd have been interested to have heard any Hasbro responses to this. I saw both of the live-action movies, and I thought they were just run-of-the-mill action flicks with GI Joe names, factions, and titles slapped on. Apart from Snake Eyes, and possibly the ninjas and the saboteur, nothing in these resembled anything in the previously established franchise. The franchise itself had some issues already, in my opinion. It slowly became overrun with and consequently known for ninjas, distant future technology, trends, and crossovers, as opposed to its firm military beginnings. These things in moderation are great, but when the landscape is saturated with them there's no longer anything special going on. It's apparent there is a need for a grown-up incarnation of GI Joe, and sadly enough, it's definitely not the live-action movies. The Resolute web-series was a decent attempt, taking cues from crime- and spy-dramas and complex anime, but the original early comics and file card information on the Original 13 still have the most realistic set-up for the franchise.
Two days ago, I was having a conversation with @DustinWeaver12 (who's a fan of the Sunbow Productions and DIC Entertainment G.I. Joe animated series) on Twitter about Rambo: The Force of Freedom. After watching the playlist, he said "Cool! Thanks. I'm not sure I can trust someone saying it's as good as GIJoe when they judge Joe by Cobra shouting "Cobra!" I replied that G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero is my favorite brand ever but Melinda's comment about screwing the element of surprise amuses me. I also mentioned it's clear Michael at least has lots of praise for @iching63 (A.K.A. Larry Hama)'s comic book if you watch their Wizard World ATL 2014 Panel. Prior to Wednesday, Mr. Hama's Twitter account had been inactive since February 23, 2014 and a few hours later, he wrote his first tweet in 563 days.
I can understand about the jumping the gun as you stated but, of the new ones, there been a few great ones! As for the street fighter figures... I stood away from them but I have thought of getting Guyu! As for the movies... First one was ok ish but the battle suits nope. The second look to be great, but Road Block was a joke. I give movie at least 3 stars. Bruice Wellus made is charter great. I was looking forward too Road Block being, Road Block a little from the 80s... They recharge him completely... Killing off Destor in the second movie!!! I was like what! Man I knew I waisted my money...
Hi, Didn't Hasbro make a figure of Cobra Commander dressed in a suit of high tech battle armour back in the 80's? Larry Hamma (who's work I immensely respect) could also be guilty of simplication @ times too, in the comic, Snake-Eyes personal history seemed to be connected to every body. Apart from the whole Storm Shadow/Zartan ninja master murder plot, his parents sister were killed in car crash caused a drunk driver who later became Cobra Commander I also recall a story where the Baroness wrongly blamed him for her brothers death during the Vietnam war.
Yes, Hasbro did that to CC and it was silly! The mirrored masked was odd but un-nerving, I'd liked that more but wish he wasn't such a buffoon in the cartoon but it's all pretty much ancient history now.
Like the Transformers movies, no one in Hollywood opened a comic or watched 5 mins of the cartoon to understand what Transformers and or G.I. Joe is all about.
Years late but Renegades is a good reinvention of the property. Yeah it’s also based off the A-Team but the show itself is fun, got a good story, and characters flow in and out well. Most of the reason it folded so quick is cause G.I. Joe really IS the third rate Hasbro offering after Transformers and MLP.
Hated the live action movies. They had so many characters and vehicles they could have used and G.I Joe already had two good storylines (Comics or the Cartoon) to choose from. Why was this not enough for them? In the 1st movie they introduced the Cobra Viper Troops... yet in the second we don't see them.. and they killed of Destro at the beginning of the movie! Seriously.. What were they thinking?!
I think that there is another point to make here. In the last movie the totally out of context / ridiculous scene were the rock fired Patton's pistol is actually very politically charged. Patton was lets say a pretty divisive character with his own politics, that not many right minded people would subscribe to ( remember Siegel refused the oscar for his portrayal as he didn't want to in any way validate Patton) this scene strongly links g.i joe to that which was a big mistake. The 2nd movie was delayed for months to re-edit (god knows how bad it must of been to begin with ! 😄
the movies are indeed crap, and the worst part is it does not have to be. Look at 24, The Unit, even the plot elements of Chuck (not Chuck in all his bad-self, but the covert organizations and sub-plots).....all these things could lead to such an amazing show! Given that it is good guys fighting terrorists, it is almost relevant!
They need to reboot the franchise, also flint was Brandon Fraser in the first movie. They could of had an all star cast like cannonball run. Why does every hero have to were black leather, look at x-men the bad guys are colorful and the good guys wear black.
you made great points. i would really like to explain the dev process of reinventing gijoe for the first movie. the first thing is, the comic, toys and the cartoon covered every cliche plot in the book. cobra commander was muddled with different origins. the comic was canned because the toy turned to a bunch of shitty rebrandings in the 90s. the cartoon had changed companies and the animation quality dropped to rock bottom on the tv show until it was taken off the air because it was just stupid garbage. the 90s was the end of gijoe on all fronts and a movie is the one thing it hadnt failed at or tried. everything gijoe was using the brand with was failing because it wasnt very original or connected. but knowing a movie would be the next step after a comic reboot with devils due, gijoe r&d tried to use a new modern technology to formulate an original plot to reboot the gijoe brands. nanomite warheads, medical nanomites, retro-reflective(invisible) and exoskeletons were no longer science fiction. these were plot concept for returning the comic with devil due gijoe issue #1. looking closely at that collector reception, hasbro used the new comic as a concept tool to reinvent the franchise with a live action gijoe world seperate from old comic or cartoon cannon. if it worked as a comic, they were making a gijoe action figure movie marketed at young kids and families. there is nothing wrong with the movie. it had to be just a movie, set apart from all the lore, while closely knitting a wide cast of characters in the movie with very little space for ambiguity between a formulated continuity. the hype for that devils due comic revitalized the toyline before the movie toyline was released. the comic sparked a huge comic rebranding that has been active for almost 20 years. the movie did get made, and another. a few cool new cartoons. my point is, you had great expectations for a movie based on a childrens toy. you got a movie based on a child's play thing so are you suprised its marketed at a wide audience? gijoe fans constantly offer hasbro money to shit in a box and give it to the fans. hasbro must really need that money because they sell some stupid shit. i designed wraith. in the movie his suit is two suits and my character is removed. then hama revived the comic and removed wraith from the gijoe cannonology.
GI Joe is definitely suffering right now. The last attempt at GI Joe comics from IDW also missed the point. It's telling that the only Joe comic still being published by IDW is the one that is a continuation of the 80's Marvel continuity written by Larry Hama.
Hasbro needs to do the same thing with G.I.Joe that they did with My Little Pony, get the talented people at DHX to make a decent reboot of the series. That would be awesome. They are a great animation studio and have been on a roll lately with other Hasbro IPs as well. The only good thing that was done with the G.I.Joe IP recently was the inclusion of G.I.Joe and Cobra as playable factions in the recently released tower defense game Toy Soldiers: War Chest. It's funny though how Hasbro will save what was originally one of their shittiest IPs but continue to kill one of their most popular.
I agree how could they not have stalker in the first film? I mean ripcord really! may as well have called him widescope or surefire or anyother name cause it wouldnt matter! and duke I mean can you dye his hair blonde!! how hard would that have been really? I mean really?
Well after the disaster that was Jem and the Holograms, Ghostbusters 2016 as well as all the hate the Transformers movies are getting, Maybe... Just maaaaybe Hollywood will finally learn its lesson. I really hope someone reboots G.I Joe and does it right.
Honestly, I think people put too much stock in the 'realism' of GIJoe. I can't remember who said it, Possibly Retroblasters but maybe a different show on GIJoe... but while there was a military aesthetic to the JOEs, Cobra had the 'If you can dream it, we can build it' mentality. The first episode's opening had people shooting lasers from hang gliders... Trouble Bubbles, weather machines...Ninjas... mech suits really aren't THAT out there... Honestly that's what I loved about the first movie. at it's core, it was exactly what a GIJOE show should have been... A secret squad of soldiers who are the best of the best who fight terrorists who hold the world ransom. Everytime it got TOO serious... we got some super science thing that took it to the next level. It had flaws too of course... Cobra Commander, baroness. and Destro were horribly done. But the sequel?? It was a little to 'real' for me to consider "GIJOE'.
Agreed, leave it to Hollywood to fuck up something as straight-forward as G.I. Joe! And Roadblock was a black guy who mostly spoke in rhymes, why did they pick the guy formally known as the Rock to play him?
This is all very true and very sad that hollywood is basically wrecking our childhood and adult loves for the sake of that good old nemesis, the almight dollar. Tragic.. Also what does anyone think of the cartoon series GI Joe Resolute?? I have only seem bits and pieces. For the most part I think that cartoon is really good especially along the lines of Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. Any other comments on that one?? Thanks for the video!!
I didn't care much for Resolute, except in regards to the action. It was a mostly hollow experience loaded with one-dimensional characters and lotsa explosions and ninja fisticuffs. Rise of Cobra actually had more substantial offerings believe it or not.
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G.I. Joe was sooo good in the '80s! The action figures and the comics. I don't understand why they just can't do it right again.
Soterion Coil - It just take's time. Everything come's full circle eventually. My guess is Kid's today are more into Video game's and anything connected to them. They don't have regular toy's and imagination's like we had growing up. A 6yr old would rather play a N3DS than play with Toy's.
My personal opinion is because the 80s saw a huge resurgence in patriotism, and now, in today’s world, the media and the world at large, which is still a huge selling market for Hasbro, has a very negative opinion of the US.
@@nickmanzo8459 Well, pardon my language, but, fuck em.
the new figures are stellar
Croc Master was awesome. I grew up on a farm and had a creek that was his domain. Whenever the Joes cut through there at least one of em lost a leg.
This is what happens when you put a committee of executives in charge of creative decision making.
Spot on with everything sir. I was able to get through about 5 minutes of these films before i shut them off. now thats 10 minutes of life i will never get back.
This was a very good and truthful video and am just sadden by the total lack of love Hasbro has for the Joe franchise anymore thanks for posting this video.
Years after my vintage collection had been stolen, I was overjoyed to see new modern versions on the shelves. I had hopes of recapturing some of the glory of my original collection. I bought a Destro/Breaker two-pack, along with some multi-packs of Cobra troops only to discover that they were now made of fragile, gooey, bendy cheap pvc, rather than abs. The figures came right out of the package warped so they couldn't even stand correctly and the plastic felt oily. I had no confidence that these things would last five years before getting sticky, powdery, or just drying out and splitting at the joints. They were also quite expensive despite being so cheaply made. I took them back and settled for collecting the 8 inch Sigma scale ones instead for my Joe fix, and what happens? CANCELED!!! Can't win if you're a Joe fan nowadays...
People keep ripping on croc master. But who never thought of having crocs or some other dangerous beast protecting their homes. I like the way the comics used him and his engineered crocs. Protecting the swamp parts of the island.
"If you can find them, you can hire the Joe Team"
I can see the opening montage. 80's toon style...
Still 100x better than the movies.
MJKToys i think the Twilight movies are better than these movies
One of the things I always have wondered is why they cannot just stick to the original idea. These "geniuses" are paid millions to come up with something they think is brilliant but is no more than rip off or vague shadow of what made glorious the original concept. After all, those who write the scripts are not true fans.
Here we are 5+ years later, and we're still in pretty much the same position. It's depressing if you think about it.
Aw, come on, the Fridge figure was cool! I loved it!
Dr. Mindbender was cool, too. He was like a Bond villain.
G.I. Joe never started to jump the shark until the early 90s.
GIJOE Extreme was so fucking bad that as a 90d kid I never even heard of it until 5 years ago.
once again you make a lot of great and well thought out points. i thought the second joe movie was a step in the right direction,but still not perfect. i continue to be a big fan of gi joe despite its mis steps,every franchise has them nothing is perfect. this was another great presentation.
Awe man cut off too soon! Love these retrospectives. Thanks
I'm an old-school G.I.Joe fan in my 40s (and one who, like most of us, is much more fun of the military style than the later on neon stuff), and I feel the need to say that Renegades was an awesome cartoon! In fact, I would go so far as to say that, other than the opening sequence of the movie (just the opening mind you, not the whole film), Renegades was the best G.I. Joe cartoon of all time. Also, the whole point of the show was to be a 21st-century origin for the G.I. Joe team. They were not actually G.I. Joe until the end of the last episode. Neither was Cobra fully formed until the end of the season. Had we gotten a second season, it likely would've been something much more traditional. Sadly, very few people gave it a chance, and it died on the vine. It had the potential to finally revitalize the franchise, but it seems that neither kids nor old-school fans gave it the chance.
I agree with you till Renegades. Resolute was the best animated Gijoe. .
Wow! You basically said everything that I felt when Rise of Cobra was released. I personally can't stand the recasting thing that Hollywood does. I do, however like SLJ as Nick Fury. But as you pointed out, a character like Ripcord who was barely an after thought in the grand scheme of the series is recast as a main character & played by Marlon Wayans? I would have loved to seen him play Alpine, b/c Alpine was rather witty in the cartoon. And The Rock as Roadblock? Roadblock was constantly rhyming in the cartoon... But somehow they couldn't work that in to the feature film? Overall, as someone who absolutely loved GI Joe as a kid & still has a decent collection, the movies were such a massively absurd disappointment.
Another great video, sad I missed this the first time around. As a Joe lover and collector I don't bother with anything outside of RAH.
Great panel, guys!
G.I.Joe Renegades - cartoon cosplay G.I.Joe.
agree with all points concerning the movies - your panels are terrific! I'd love to see ya all speak sometime - would be awesome if you came to NYC!
I missed this video, watching now.
I really enjoy this video Michael very nice
Epic! When the legend was born!
Good stuff. I may have to check out the comics.
Do you guys honestly think kids 20 years from now will look back on the GI Joe films w rosy nostalgia the way we look back on the 1987 Masters of the Universe film?
I recently picked up the first three TPBs. Great stuff.
Spot on my friend...
I love all of your GI Joe videos guys :D I think that it will not come back :/ I am trying to get the vintage now as much as I can :D I think that's all we will have
You guys are so cool. I wish I could have attended, but I live in Jersey. Keep up the great work, Im already a diehard.
You were describing "WOKE" before it became a word... 2014 was the start of incredible madness which is just starting to implode in 2020.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of the 2009 animated GI Joe adult swim mini series GI Joe Resolute?
The neon coloured weapons were the beginning of the end...... and you had to remove them from the sprues.
I remember as a kid being a bit confused when the (forgot name) the snake head bad guy was introduced with his snake sled.
BAAAAAM!!!! I agree with you 100% on what you said! Hasbro needs to watch this!
Nice! Very constructive!
The Power Suits (If that's what they call them) in the first live action movie, I THINK was based on a Sigma Six concept. I can't say for sure because I never was able to sit through on episode of that incarnation of G.I.Joe. I just saw parts of it when I'm channel surfing. :D
I went to my local toy store today and noticed many of the generic toylines (soldier force, stop vs.scum, real life heroes, etc.) have better quality vehicles, and some lines still have good quality playsets. I personally believe that because they don't have an animated series to follow, they are allowed to try any crazy thing they can. For instance, I saw a figure 3 pack with a vehicle; what more could you want? If you compare that to the rise of cobra figures and vehicles where it's pretty-much the same old characters with new gimmicks. For instance, the guns that fire missiles that the new figures hold are slightly different, and the vehicles have to match the movie. Your thoughts?
G.I. Joe: Renegades looks like it has depressing animation.
The "Live Action" G. I. Joe films were ridiculous! More like afterschool TV Movies! Chuck Norris' The Delta Force, The A-Team were way better as film and TV series.
And, yes, several characters were dumb like Croc Master, Raptor, Quick Kick, Spearhead, Dr. Mindbender, and Cobra-La.
The best G. I. Joe cartoon? G. I. Joe: Renegades.
And Correct- it was Stalker- NOT Duke! - who was Hawk's second-in-command. Plus, Scarlett's relationship with Snake-Eyes should've been emphasized.
The accelerator suits were dumb riffs on Iron Man.
Hollywood doesn't properly research the source properties of most reboots, and if they do, they don't attempt to understand the reasoning. Like making Clarks parents so young in Man Of Steel, or having Jor-El be a never dying AI. They are not being smart about the dramatic implications, because they don't understand the choices made by the previous writers (which were likely done for very good reasons), they are just fascinated by "making their mark," even if their mark is not dramatic, comedic, or even clearly understood.
Yes. Thanks, HASBRO. See you guys in thirty years when some British director cleans this place up.
True story: As a kid in the early 1980's I used to write letters and send drawings to Hasbro of figure and design concepts. I loved how Storm Shadow came with a wolf and I told them to push that concept, I proposed one of the figures should come with an alligator and another one with a wild boar ( my father was a hunter and we had a taxidermy boar head in our basement) I never heard back from Hasbro, but when Croc Master and Gnawgahyde (he had a warthog not a wild boar, but close enough) came out I bought them up and was satisfied... I am not saying my letters to Hasbro had any impact on their action figure line, but it's possible. Who knows?
interesting to listen to
I do agree with almost everything. But one thing we have to understand is that Hollywood don't care anymore about the quality of movies. They care about how good the CGI is and how much money they can get by adding more CGI into a movie. When the first G.I. Joe movie came out I was like "wtf ?!". It's like with BayFormers... they take a great franchise and do what they want with it and don't care is it similar to the original at any point. Now they took the TMNT and look again what they did to a great franchise. It's all about money now. And the sad part is... kids now want to see those movies becouse they never had an oportunity to see the original version.
With these movies it's more like "GI Schmoe"
I loved that comment about toy stores. I agree if you want anything good you have to pay over hundreds of dollars for it on ebay
THANK YOU! I said the same thing about Marlon Waynes, why didn't they just make him Alpine!?
Probably because he wasn't specifically identified as a mountain trooper. He was special forces with flight time logged in the movie. Stalker would have been the most logical choice, what with Wayans' character being the loyal sidekick of a centerpiece character. Unfortunately, "stalker" has a negative connotation attached to it these days. In addition, the guy spends much of the movie chasing skirt, especially Scarlett.
Thus I have no real problem with the ROC Ripcord--choice of name, character, actor, or otherwise. He's an amalgamation of a couple of well-known Joe archetypes--the loyal friend (Stalker) and the consummate wise ass (Clutch, Shipwreck, etc.).
Not the point, they had black characters already there for them to use instead of changing a white character to one!
Christ, it's not that big of a deal. The original Ripcord was merely a knock-off of Red Ryan from Challengers of the Unknown. Despite the Bongo the Balloon Bear storyline from the comics, he was never that well-developed. Even less so in the cartoon.
The movie took what was basically just another Joe and made him into a decent, prominent character.
ROC Ripcord is a good, loyal soldier and confidant of Duke, who settles nicely into his role as the heart of the team. What exactly is the problem here, aside from the change of skin color?
jose miranda I'm not a fan, but he did all right in Ladykillers and ROC
corey bogans or Iceberg
Fantastic panel, I agree with pretty much all your points, enough with the crappy movie toys!!! at least they are releasing a 50th anniversary line with remolded vehicles and figures.
I recently watched, and enjoyed, GI Joe: Renegades. The animation style was a little too harsh for me, but I thought it was well-written and paced.
I enjoyed this show. Looks like you had a tough crowd at the convention. I was a big fan back in the 80s, but didn't give the movies a try for the same reasons you mentioned. What is GI Joe cast in a bunch of identical body suits? And, yeah, where do the zonked out movie execs get the idea to cast Ripcord? Even when I was a kid, I played Ripcord without a personality!
Regarding the Snake Eyes lips thing, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the second toy version of him that the first movie's costume was based on have lips? Probably a lot less pronounced, but I'm sure they were there. This doesn't take away anything from what you said on the whole, really just me being pedantic!
***** You got me second guessing my self now! Absolutely correct about the box art, but the Joe box art had many instances of not being a 100% faithful representation of the toy (Wet Suit in shorts for example) and I'm still convinced after scouring photos for hours last night that the Snake Eyes toy had lips. So we're both right!
Was the bird guy stolen from the 2nd season of Buck Rogers?
So true.. :-)
You know what am still waiting for a good gi joe game they could do a fp shooter or a tp shooter think of all of the characters gi joe has and all of their unique weapons. You could play as a joe or a cobra do campaign for both sides and multiplayer think of a deathmatch playing as your favorite character one can dream
You didn't address cobra commander.
gijoe still has a huge fanbase. the movies and the gijoe renegades cartoon spawned a new generation of fans. gijoe right now is dying out but it will make a comeback
Hopefully the reboot will be better.
But v2 of snake eyes did kinda have a mouth on his mask. I think they wanted to hint at that detail
Marlon Wayans could NEVER be Stalker. Marlon Wayans never should have been in the movie.
The only worse choice wouldve been JJ from Good Times
I always thought Marlon Waylon should have been stalker hated that the ripcord character was changed and put up front as a main character and also your right Marlon Waylon looks a lot like stalker
I agree to all the points there. Hasbro is killing G.I. Joes and rather focus on their top line toys like Transformers and my Little Ponies. I like Transformers as well but i grew up on G.I. Joes. It's really sad to see toy stores not packing any G.I. Joes products, feels like my childhood being ripped apart.
You are right in the fact that they are focusing on the transformers line, but have you seen it recently as a collector I have bought one of the newest line they are all just extremely simple looking now and not fun so while they are focusing on them they have turned off a lot of the collectors in the process
Um
Issue number one of the comics.
A “ High Resolution Hologram” is used to plan the rescue mission.
So for the movies to use holograms is not that much of a stretch.
1:13 Y...M...C...A!
It blows my mind that G.I Joe has two storylines - the realistic comic book version and the sci-fi'ish cartoon version. There are countless characters and scores of vehicles... yet this was still not enough for Hollywood to work with.
I do not see what is so hard to understand when they make these reboots and cartoon to live action adaption that people want to see the characters and vehicles they grew up with!
Nice panel M&M I wish I could attend some of these and talk with you guys in person. I agree w/ Mike about Hollywod F-ing these franchises up majorly and seriously between all the knowledge you two have and my writing skills the three of us could have written a better GI Joe script, or Transformers or any other toy franchise Hollywood's looking at and do to it what Nazi Germany did to Poland in '39. I have a feeling I could have swallowed a ream of office paper and an ink jet tank then pulled a better script out of my ass than what was used for either movie. What does it say when the three min intro to the animated GI Joe film was better than either of the live action ones? It almost seems as if the directors & writers never read the comics, watched the G1 show, or even looked at the toys, were given the basic concept and said "F-IT Lets do whatever sounds good. Now where's my booze and meth?"
Actually I always thought Croc Master kinda fit, consdering the TerrorDome is a swamp based hq, if you got a psycho who trains crocs as pissed off guard dogs it could have worked. The one I loved and had towards the tail end was Raptor, but he never fit really. Training hunting birds is one thing, but for a group like Cobra- can't buy it. Besides his costume looked too heroic. I mean he looked like a variant of Hawkman or a new Silverhawk, not a member of a snakebased terrorist orgainization. Maybe a merc hired by Destro after he broke away from Cobra and techno enhance the hunting birds.
Mike was 100% right about the Cobra followers, when your dealing w/ zealots and true believes you got a whole new danger level than dealing w/ folks forced to do whatever. Hitler, Napolian, Julius Ceaser, Jim Jones, David Korisch, yeah all they needed to establish was Commander was one charismatic s.o.b. finding folks down on their luck, out of work, convincing them of another way.
Too bad you guys didnt get a full hour that would have been a real kick ass discussion. By the way I got a suggestion for a look back for the cartoon & toyline & everything else that goes with it, Gargoyles! Ever consider it?
Another awesome vid guys!! G.I. Joe really has gotten away from its roots..... It's a shame
Check out GI Joe Resolute, it's an actual attempt at a mature GI Joe interpretation outside the comics, and i thought it was pretty good
I thought it was great -- really respectful to the original while adding a new depth without sacrificing anything. It had a clear understanding of who these characters were and what made GI Joe and Cobra tick. A lot of fun.
I loved the gi Joe movies a d I grew up with Gi Joe The Real American hero, read the comic books
I thought making the Rza Snake Eye's blind ninja master in Retaliation a new form of stupidity. Also when did The Rock become the franchise saver?
Sadly, G.I. JOE RESOLUTE was the last property to take the G.I. JOE franchise seriously. Now here we are some 35 years later in the desert wondering when or if G.I. JOE will resurface with a film, or television series, live action or animated, worthy of the franchise. Thank you for doing this panel back then.
Hi Gambit!
I like Sci-Fi a lot... figures since I like sci-fi a lot too, LOL.
ditto
I agree with everything, except for lumping Dr. Mindbender in with the likes of Croc Master, The Fridge, and Raptor.
*****
I'd agree with that.
***** Oh I hope I didn't sound like I was defending the good Doctor...I'd have substituted Crystal Ball instead though. I think we can all agree *that* guy is pretty weird looking.
Yoda Pagoda
I think the Dr. Mindbender character transcended his goofy "orthodontist turned mad scientist" over the top character design. I mean the guy created Serpentor, so that gives him some legitimacy. I collect mostly 82-86 stuff. That's my cutoff - I allow Sci-Fi and some of the others based on Sunbow 'toon cred and how I played with them as a kid.
I thought his cape was awesome with the Cobra insignia. Other than that, he looked like a retired Chippendales dancer
I'm really surprised Cobra-La didn't make that list. I actually dug those guys with their creepy Lovecraftian undertones. The animated movie went overboard making them the end-all, be-all of Cobra though.
I also thought Crystal Ball had potential as some Svengali-like mystic--Cobra's very own Rasputin.
Overall, I'm disappointed G.I. Joe's brief foray into the paranormal in '87 was short-lived. Could have led to some really neat things if done right.
Actually the 1985 snake eyes figure had lips it's visible if you look for it
Decently presented. I'm late to the discussion, but I'd have been interested to have heard any Hasbro responses to this. I saw both of the live-action movies, and I thought they were just run-of-the-mill action flicks with GI Joe names, factions, and titles slapped on. Apart from Snake Eyes, and possibly the ninjas and the saboteur, nothing in these resembled anything in the previously established franchise.
The franchise itself had some issues already, in my opinion. It slowly became overrun with and consequently known for ninjas, distant future technology, trends, and crossovers, as opposed to its firm military beginnings. These things in moderation are great, but when the landscape is saturated with them there's no longer anything special going on. It's apparent there is a need for a grown-up incarnation of GI Joe, and sadly enough, it's definitely not the live-action movies. The Resolute web-series was a decent attempt, taking cues from crime- and spy-dramas and complex anime, but the original early comics and file card information on the Original 13 still have the most realistic set-up for the franchise.
Two days ago, I was having a conversation with @DustinWeaver12 (who's a fan of the Sunbow Productions and DIC Entertainment G.I. Joe animated series) on Twitter about Rambo: The Force of Freedom. After watching the playlist, he said "Cool! Thanks. I'm not sure I can trust someone saying it's as good as GIJoe when they judge Joe by Cobra shouting "Cobra!" I replied that G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero is my favorite brand ever but Melinda's comment about screwing the element of surprise amuses me. I also mentioned it's clear Michael at least has lots of praise for @iching63 (A.K.A. Larry Hama)'s comic book if you watch their Wizard World ATL 2014 Panel. Prior to Wednesday, Mr. Hama's Twitter account had been inactive since February 23, 2014 and a few hours later, he wrote his first tweet in 563 days.
If I had children I would buy them the toys. So they can learn while playing. The old toys of course...
I can understand about the jumping the gun as you stated but, of the new ones, there been a few great ones! As for the street fighter figures... I stood away from them but I have thought of getting Guyu! As for the movies... First one was ok ish but the battle suits nope. The second look to be great, but Road Block was a joke. I give movie at least 3 stars. Bruice Wellus made is charter great. I was looking forward too Road Block being, Road Block a little from the 80s... They recharge him completely... Killing off Destor in the second movie!!! I was like what! Man I knew I waisted my money...
Yes it has.
Hi,
Didn't Hasbro make a figure of Cobra Commander dressed in a suit of high tech battle armour back in the 80's?
Larry Hamma (who's work I immensely respect) could also be guilty of simplication @ times too, in the comic, Snake-Eyes personal history seemed to be connected to every body. Apart from the whole Storm Shadow/Zartan ninja master murder plot, his parents sister were killed in car crash caused a drunk driver who later became Cobra Commander I also recall a story where the Baroness wrongly blamed him for her brothers death during the Vietnam war.
Yes, Hasbro did that to CC and it was silly! The mirrored masked was odd but un-nerving, I'd liked that more but wish he wasn't such a buffoon in the cartoon but it's all pretty much ancient history now.
Like the Transformers movies, no one in Hollywood opened a comic or watched 5 mins of the cartoon to understand what Transformers and or G.I. Joe is all about.
I'm not a huge fan of the first GI Joe movie but I felt the second was a huge improvement
Years late but Renegades is a good reinvention of the property. Yeah it’s also based off the A-Team but the show itself is fun, got a good story, and characters flow in and out well. Most of the reason it folded so quick is cause G.I. Joe really IS the third rate Hasbro offering after Transformers and MLP.
Hated the live action movies. They had so many characters and vehicles they could have used and G.I Joe already had two good storylines (Comics or the Cartoon) to choose from. Why was this not enough for them?
In the 1st movie they introduced the Cobra Viper Troops... yet in the second we don't see them.. and they killed of Destro at the beginning of the movie!
Seriously.. What were they thinking?!
rise of cobra ended with a black eyed peas song wtf!?
just saying that Xcom and Jagged Alliance have the formula for making G.I. Joe great and awesome again.
I think that there is another point to make here. In the last movie the totally out of context / ridiculous scene were the rock fired Patton's pistol is actually very politically charged.
Patton was lets say a pretty divisive character with his own politics, that not many right minded people would subscribe to ( remember Siegel refused the oscar for his portrayal as he didn't want to in any way validate Patton) this scene strongly links g.i joe to that which was a big mistake.
The 2nd movie was delayed for months to re-edit (god knows how bad it must of been to begin with ! 😄
the movies are indeed crap, and the worst part is it does not have to be. Look at 24, The Unit, even the plot elements of Chuck (not Chuck in all his bad-self, but the covert organizations and sub-plots).....all these things could lead to such an amazing show! Given that it is good guys fighting terrorists, it is almost relevant!
They need to reboot the franchise, also flint was Brandon Fraser in the first movie. They could of had an all star cast like cannonball run. Why does every hero have to were black leather, look at x-men the bad guys are colorful and the good guys wear black.
you made great points. i would really like to explain the dev process of reinventing gijoe for the first movie. the first thing is, the comic, toys and the cartoon covered every cliche plot in the book. cobra commander was muddled with different origins. the comic was canned because the toy turned to a bunch of shitty rebrandings in the 90s. the cartoon had changed companies and the animation quality dropped to rock bottom on the tv show until it was taken off the air because it was just stupid garbage. the 90s was the end of gijoe on all fronts and a movie is the one thing it hadnt failed at or tried. everything gijoe was using the brand with was failing because it wasnt very original or connected.
but knowing a movie would be the next step after a comic reboot with devils due, gijoe r&d tried to use a new modern technology to formulate an original plot to reboot the gijoe brands. nanomite warheads, medical nanomites, retro-reflective(invisible) and exoskeletons were no longer science fiction. these were plot concept for returning the comic with devil due gijoe issue #1. looking closely at that collector reception, hasbro used the new comic as a concept tool to reinvent the franchise with a live action gijoe world seperate from old comic or cartoon cannon. if it worked as a comic, they were making a gijoe action figure movie marketed at young kids and families. there is nothing wrong with the movie. it had to be just a movie, set apart from all the lore, while closely knitting a wide cast of characters in the movie with very little space for ambiguity between a formulated continuity.
the hype for that devils due comic revitalized the toyline before the movie toyline was released. the comic sparked a huge comic rebranding that has been active for almost 20 years. the movie did get made, and another. a few cool new cartoons. my point is, you had great expectations for a movie based on a childrens toy. you got a movie based on a child's play thing so are you suprised its marketed at a wide audience? gijoe fans constantly offer hasbro money to shit in a box and give it to the fans. hasbro must really need that money because they sell some stupid shit.
i designed wraith. in the movie his suit is two suits and my character is removed. then hama revived the comic and removed wraith from the gijoe cannonology.
Renegades is a rejuvenated A team. Is correct. Wish the writers actually cared for the franchise.
GI Joe is definitely suffering right now. The last attempt at GI Joe comics from IDW also missed the point. It's telling that the only Joe comic still being published by IDW is the one that is a continuation of the 80's Marvel continuity written by Larry Hama.
I kindda Liked the sigma 6 Line, but iwas really short lived...
I liked rise of cobra a little
Hasbro needs to do the same thing with G.I.Joe that they did with My Little Pony, get the talented people at DHX to make a decent reboot of the series. That would be awesome. They are a great animation studio and have been on a roll lately with other Hasbro IPs as well. The only good thing that was done with the G.I.Joe IP recently was the inclusion of G.I.Joe and Cobra as playable factions in the recently released tower defense game Toy Soldiers: War Chest. It's funny though how Hasbro will save what was originally one of their shittiest IPs but continue to kill one of their most popular.
I’m 8 mins in on the video. Tough crowd. Geeze.
The only problem with this video is you answered the question in the first sentence yes it has become a joke to yo joke
I agree how could they not have stalker in the first film? I mean ripcord really! may as well have called him widescope or surefire or anyother name cause it wouldnt matter! and duke I mean can you dye his hair blonde!! how hard would that have been really? I mean really?
Well after the disaster that was Jem and the Holograms, Ghostbusters 2016 as well as all the hate the Transformers movies are getting, Maybe... Just maaaaybe Hollywood will finally learn its lesson. I really hope someone reboots G.I Joe and does it right.
GB 2016 wasn't that bad actually.
Honestly, I think people put too much stock in the 'realism' of GIJoe. I can't remember who said it, Possibly Retroblasters but maybe a different show on GIJoe... but while there was a military aesthetic to the JOEs, Cobra had the 'If you can dream it, we can build it' mentality. The first episode's opening had people shooting lasers from hang gliders... Trouble Bubbles, weather machines...Ninjas... mech suits really aren't THAT out there...
Honestly that's what I loved about the first movie. at it's core, it was exactly what a GIJOE show should have been... A secret squad of soldiers who are the best of the best who fight terrorists who hold the world ransom. Everytime it got TOO serious... we got some super science thing that took it to the next level.
It had flaws too of course... Cobra Commander, baroness. and Destro were horribly done. But the sequel?? It was a little to 'real' for me to consider "GIJOE'.
Remember issue #8 of the Marvel comics, that one felt like the cartoon or even a Nick Fury comic.
Agreed, leave it to Hollywood to fuck up something as straight-forward as G.I. Joe! And Roadblock was a black guy who mostly spoke in rhymes, why did they pick the guy formally known as the Rock to play him?
There have certainly never been two times in history when a nation followed a ...
This is all very true and very sad that hollywood is basically wrecking our childhood and adult loves for the sake of that good old nemesis, the almight dollar. Tragic.. Also what does anyone think of the cartoon series GI Joe Resolute?? I have only seem bits and pieces. For the most part I think that cartoon is really good especially along the lines of Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. Any other comments on that one?? Thanks for the video!!
Hell there was only one reason to sit through the first movie and you said it, Snake Eyes vs Storm Shadow.
hehe. =)
Glad to see you agree. :)
I didn't care much for Resolute, except in regards to the action. It was a mostly hollow experience loaded with one-dimensional characters and lotsa explosions and ninja fisticuffs. Rise of Cobra actually had more substantial offerings believe it or not.