Trinnov Waveforming Technology Explained
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- 🔊 Dive into the future of home theater audio with Trinnov's groundbreaking WaveForming™ technology! 🚀 Join us as we explore the potential of this revolutionary advancement in frequency reproduction, poised to reshape the landscape of home theater design guidelines.
🌐 Trinnov's WaveForming™ Technology: Transforming Soundscapes
Discover how Trinnov's new WaveForming™ technology is set to redefine the way we experience audio in home theaters. With its scientifically uncompromised approach, this cutting-edge technology promises to elevate performance to unprecedented levels, offering a truly immersive and dynamic auditory experience.
🛠️ Design-Driven Implementation: A New Era in Home Theater
Learn about Trinnov's commitment to a design-driven approach in collaboration with industry partners. Explore how this unique strategy ensures the seamless integration of WaveForming™ technology, pushing the boundaries of what's possible in home theater design.
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A video on Diract ART with your listening inpressions would be awesome. Rumour has it that it will come to Denon & Marantz this year. So many of us are probably wondering whether ART is worth upgrading for.
I'm remembering (and appreciating) that time you suggested maybe I shouldn't build a baffle wall. You never know what next year is going to bring.
That is true! And I did and now I have a problem. I am beta testing it and I can’t place the subs where I want to.
Two questions please: 1. Can someone have success in doing this without using a Trinnov/Storm processor (and would that then simply be a Double Subwoofer Array technique) ? 2. My 8 subwoofers are very deep and Non-inwall (28" / 26.5" acoustical), should I therefore be placing the Woofer side of my subwoofers towards the wall (and if Yes, with a gap of say - .5", 1", 1.5" ?). Thank you! Ps. Also, and I assume that it matters, I do have independent control over Volume, Distance, Phase, and ability to apply PEQ to each of the 8 subwoofers..., along with PEQ independently applied to each overall array (front and rear).
Thanks for the video, I am very intrigued with waveforming. I am in process of renovation of my theater, building a baffle wall, and have realized my ported subs are too big for the front stage. I will decide on selling my ported JTR subs and go with the sealed versions-Jtr’s RS1s. The lower output of going sealed subs vs ported (which I am not happy about loosing this output btw) will mean using min 4, possibly 5 sealed subs, plus one extra sub for my nearfield position, which I dont want to give up.
My question is did I understand you correctly in your video? The subs in the rear of the room are not really contributing to the output that much snd that most of the output will be from the front subs in the waveforming setup? Obviously 5-6 RS1s are expensive, but compared to 3 ported subs… the bass output and headroom in the sub bass is important to me
Basically yes. The front subs are the emitters. Where this isn’t as true is below the first mode. With pressurization mode you can limit the range of Waveforming to only take effect in the modal region. Below the modal region the subs behave as a large coherent source. So if you have 6 subs, you get the output of all 6 subs.
Keep in mind a ported 18 from JTR only has more output around the one octave of the port tuning. If that. It’s not any louder above or below that. So if the port tuning is, let’s say 15hz, you have no concerns because three RS1’s in the front would have as much output as three of the ported subs above 25hz or so. It’s only at and below where it’s going to be about 6-7 dB shy and that’s where the rear subs would contribute again.
Matt, great video!
Question: Placing multiple subs, especially those with larger cones, behind the screen has to have an effect on the AT screen shaking. Will that cause noticeable viewing issues?
Hey Joey...It could. Just like the speakers need to be sufficient distance to the screen, woofers need to as well. Certainly a screen too close to a woofer could have a ripple pattern. Having said that, we have not actually observed this in practice. I would suggest that if you can get 12" between subwoofer and screen material, it shouldn't be much of an issue, and 4-6 inches might work OK too.
This may be a question worth experimenting with.
So is this also why when we choose front speakers ( I’m talking 2 channel stereo) to choose speakers that go down low as to smooth out bass with added subs?
Thanks
No I think the future is multi module towers like RBH or PS Audio's expensive speakers. Multi-module speakers will need to trickle down to cheaper brands like KEF and BW.
No this is a unique DSP implementation to bass. It doesn’t work with full range speakers and cannot be replicated.
A double bass array could be made using a minidsp and a lot of subwoofers. However you still need dedicated bass modules. It would be hard to do this with the bass part of a tower speaker.
Thanks for covering this technology in more detail. Very interesting.
Very interesting thanks, looking forward to the next one already.
Thank you for this informative video. For 2024, I've been procuring small subs, and will have 7 channels to play with. I'm hoping it's a real game changer.
7 extra channels on your Trinnov?
A lot of it will depend on the layout you can do.
The problem what I am facing is that I only have a more traditional multi sub array a the moment which is optimized by MSO. 2 subs in the front but a bit elevated and at the 1/4 room width positions and two behind my sofa on the ground but also at 1/4 room width position. It is not really possible for me to put additional subs elevated on the wall. Will Waveforming still improve my bass response or can I use Waveforming instead MSO?
It very well might. We are actively testing this. I am in fact beta testing it. I am not allowed to release anything yet. But non-optimal layouts are being tested and some have good results.
The lack of elevation isn’t ideal but your 1/4 points is correct. So you may be in a better position than you realize.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks! 🙏 In my case it might also help that I dont really need much consistency in the vertical dimensions since I dont have something like elevated seats. Elevated positions were thus also not used in my MSO optimization.
Thanks for the great video......will implement same subwoofer placement s for my room....
This man is amazing.
Very interesting video. What was the other technology you were mentioning that uses all speakers as active absorbers?
Dirac ART
Yes as another mentioned, Dirac ART does this.
What speakers are you using ?
Perlisten S7i for LCR, S4i for surrounds, RBH prototype in ceilings for tops, RBH prototype subwoofers in the rear and RTJ quad 18’s for the front subwoofers.
Cant wait for the dirac art review by you. Other reviews have said that it takes away all tactile base.
I don't know why that would be. I will say this, Waveforming does the exact oppossite. I am still working through the reasons why, its hard to say if its waveforming itself or something else. With WF, the tactile bass is through the roof. Like too much at times.
Thanks!
Thank you! I appreciate your support
I find that Trinnov has been amazingly good at marketing. You don't need Trinnov for a plane wave Double Bass Array. Formulas are available - it's open source. You still need a lot of woofers and SPL capability and you do need a rectangular room. The less rectangular the room, the more you will need more individual channels to tweak individual subs, and the more you need measurement for the tweaking. But you won't need Trinnov for that. Use REW. If your room is less ideal, you will need Dirac ART, which will accomplish more in more layouts than a DBA alone can do, higher up in frequency. Dirac's solid published research shows amazing capabilities, even with the initial version of Dirac ART that works up to 150 Hz, for now. Hopefully it'll arrive in more units than the Storm.
This oversimplifies the situation. I am actually beta testing Waveforming and have done ART a handful of times. ART has been all over the place in practice. Some show improvement and some are made worse. We have Dirac looking into a couple of really bad ones.
I have Waveforming and it’s more consistent so far. It’s not just a double bass array. It uses the concept of the double bass array to address a major problem with Diracs approach. It readily creates artifacts. In most systems the artifacts are subtle and inaudible. However we have a few where it’s been quite audible and problematic. With Waveforming there are no such artifacts.
The two technologies are more similar than you probably realize. I am using Waveforming with just two subwoofers in the front and two in the back. They are not setup correctly and I still am showing positive results. Just not the ideal results the DBA shows.
I had played with DBAs when they first were popularized. I implemented them in some multi row theaters. So did Kieth Yates and others. We all had the same problem. The plane wave is very easily disturbed. I never knew how bad this was in terms of what caused it, I just knew the once we installed the risers and seats, the results fell apart completely. Kieth used computer modeling to address this. And had to manually calculate the necessary array shape and DSP settings through a brute force iteration method. Waveforming does this for you. I haven’t personally installed it into a multirow theater yet besides my own (which is only the second implementation of it in the entire USA), but I have measurement data on it from the ISE setup being shown as we speak. The results are fairly spectacular.
Which is all to say. Neither of these systems is perfect. They struggle with suboptimal situations and can make things worse. But when setup right, both can give amazing results. In the best systems, what Waveforming is doing is actually likely better. There is no chance of those artifacts.
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it, your channel and your previous writings, too. A lot can be accomplished with repeated iterative measurements and manual tuning of DBA room interaction anomalies with other convolvers and room correction software. It takes a lot of work, and time. For more automatic approaches one turns to Dirac. Dirac ART can be, and has been, set up with a DBA. As you highlight in the video more detailed correction will require more channels and processing capability. One difference between the two is that Dirac is transparent in how they accomplish things, both in published peer reviewed works and through the IEEE while Trinnov is not. Another is Dirac's approach will work in non rectangular rooms. "In the best systems, what Waveforming is doing is actually likely better." How far up in the frequency range does Trinnov Waveforming work? Does it go beyond creating and adjusting a plane wave? @@PoesAcoustics
Is this available in other products other than Trinnov!
Non-related, but have you heard of PSI AVAA’s? I have a couple and they make a difference
Yes, but...different concept. They do work. They are an active bass cancelation tech too. However they rely on a much simpler principle to achieve their results and that has more limitations.
This is a great video on Waveforming, Matt! Un-popular option but..... I would suggest you don't go through all that effort to add Waveforming to your room. I experienced it at CEDIA in a few demos and more recently in a local location. It is cool, but, it's not something I'd rebuild a properly designed room for. I imagine your room has basically textbook decay times and seat to seat consistency, the real world performance benefit would probably be negligible. To go through all that effort of rebuilding your front wall or doing some makeshift version just doesn't make sense. The waveforming rooms I heard, including their demo at CEDIA, didn't sound any better than other reference rooms I've been in. It's cool, maybe measured better(?), but, imo not a huge game changer. I'm sure they'll give or greatly discount a unit for you but you'll still have to do the room rebuild to do it right lol. Leave it!
Where did you experience it locally? The only two setups in America are Chuck Backs and my room. There is no other Waveforming setups in the USA (other than the CEDIA demos).
I’ve experienced it as well. I am also now beta testing it. I’ll share what I am finding later. CEDIA didn’t allow for a good demo of it. I walked away unimpressed as well. But in my room I am able to dive far deeper. I just can’t share anything yet.
@@PoesAcoustics Can't be too specific, but in the UK. You can probably do the math and figure it out from there. Glad you're finding some better success with it!! It's exciting tech, but, I have yet to be impressed by it. I'll keep my mind open though!
@@commanderrussels2612 Ah I see. I didn't realize you were in the Uk. Yes there are MANY more setups in the UK right now.
Isn't this tech just a DSP crossover for breaking the bookshelf from the woofer into amplified modules. Like we need 9 x KEF LS50 Meta Bookshelf Speakers and like 5 x Hsu VTF-2 Mk5 subwoofer(s) for the bass module. You would think Sony would do this for much cheaper with there ES 360 DSP.
I assume Denon Marantz 2024 platform will include 5 x directional and manageable subwoofer outputs?
No that is not at all what this is and no Denon and Marantz will not have this. I think you should rewatch the video as I explain what it is.
This utilizes arrays of subwoofers to control the bass dispersion and cancel problematic reflections. It is not about crossover points or directional outputs. Denon and Marantz do not and likely never will have this as this is unique to Trinnov. What they might have is Dirac ART, which is related but different. And again, your interpretation isn’t really correct.
@@PoesAcoustics But look at the capabilities of the Marantz AV10 independent directional subwoofer capability. That could be plugged into a DSP that pushes the sub harmonics and bass sounds round the rooms geography.
@@chebrubin it’s not even close to the same thing. Directional bass is something different and doesn’t push modes around. It does have 4 independent sub outputs. But nothing in its DSP can handle what the Trinnov Waveforming is doing. It can’t impact overall rate of decay at low frequencies nor can it cancel mode causing reflections.
The addition of Dirac DLBC does improve its ability to create good smooth bass, but it won’t be as good as what Waveforming could do in an ideal setup nor have an impact on decay rate.