Arrangement plays a big role for sure. The freq spectrum we work with is like sonic real estate. Imagine two streets of same length side by side, If you decide to put only 3 houses on one street then you can afford to make those 3 houses very big, if on the other street you decide to put 20 houses they need to be smaller houses in order to fit.
It's pretty incredible how you can give more and more information about this subject every time, even if you already have a TON and I learned so much from you 🙏🙏
He's always been such a generous and good teacher - I discovered David right when I needed to and couldn't begin to tell you how much I've learned and how much it's helped me.
“Engineering is the management of tradeoffs.” This was told to me while I was trying to teach myself some electrical engineering but I believe it applies to a lot of things to include audio production. Was reminded of this when you mentioned “compromise” a few times in this video. Dig your channel.
it answers the question, but it doesn't tell us how to do it 😥 seriously, always appreciate the straight-forward answers on this channel. no BS, just firing truth and knowledge our way.
One of the many things I dig bout you videos is your, right to the point frankness. I'm of the same mindset: no "The Emperor's New Clothes" BS. Most of all...your experience is invaluable. Thank you.
Perfect timing I was having an issue trying to get a song up to -7Db LUFS which was what the reference track is at. I have to say it’s not easy at all. All I kept saying to myself is how the F does David manage to get things so loud. I will achieve it no matter how long it takes. Keep up the good work. Love the vids. Best advice on YT period.
Appreciate the answer my guy💯 I may have questioned it in a general way as i'm able to get my track up to 6-8 depending on density. You've still gave me some new tips, greetings from Europe❤
Ear fatigue kills mixes dead ☠️ Treat the room! Set good operating level. Calibrate the monitors. Take breaks and reset your ear holes. Don’t overthink it.
Yes ... I'm entering now a phase going from loud and squeezed to death with no dynamics to give it a little space man😄, so I have an opposite problem, haha. But, yeah, it takes a lot of years, talent and managing a lot of things (even just knowing when things are bad, but not knowing how to fix it is a huge step forward:)) at the same time to make mastering and loudness right. If your basic mix is way off, forget it. There are so many things that could go wrong here it's not even funny. One small move in the wrong direction and it's game over. At the end it's like playing tetris with wrong pieces. :)) Great video again. And yeah, that's why you pay the mix engineer.
Mixing skills, good ears/hearing, good equipment go a long way of course. But it's also sound selection that's very important for loudness. You can't make a jazz song as loud as a heavy metal song. You can try to, but the end result will be trash. We also have to keep harmonic content in mind. A soft sounding piano will also never be as loud as a trumpet. I put distortion on a piano, it sounds like shit most of the time, I put distortion on a trumpet, it sounds more aggressive but the distortion is less noticeable, because distortion is mostly added harmonic content, and the trumpet already has a lot of it, but the piano doesn't. So the piano sounds weird with distortion, but the trumpet still sounds good most of the time. What a lot of people these days seem to ignore, is the fact that most of the music on the radio is distorted. Music in today's world revolves around money, loudness makes the music more attention grabbing, therefore more sales. So even though many professionals can get a loud AND clean mix, they are forced to ride the bandwagon and make the song extremely loud even at the cost of cleanliness. Most people listen to music on small speakers, their phones, TV that doesn't even go lower than 150-200hz, shitty car speakers(even if they're good your car is not a studio lol) small bluetooth speakers etc. So most people can't hear that distortion anyway. The loudness wars will never end. But don't overthink when you compare your songs to the songs on the radio, they are definitely too loud and distorted most of the time, they might seem impressive when you first hear it, but then you will realize that it sounds like crap when you turn the volume up, it will fatigue your ears immediately, and the distortion will be so obvious (especially on headphones). Another important thing is masking, you have songs like Chromeo - Footwork that are reeeally loud AND also distorted, but you can't hear that distortion because of all the harmonic content in the synthesizers, and all the fast, loud, active hi-hats that mask the high frequency range. You can have all of your sounds distorting on their own, but when combined together they can hide their flaws, who cares if they distort on their own, just use automation if and disable/lower the distortion or compression on a sound when it plays on it's own, and activate it again when the other sounds join in. Some other stuff I've also learned is not to care too much about the numbers. Or in this case, LUFS. LUFS is basically a loudness measurement that I think works kinda like RMS, but it also takes into account human hearing perception. Most of the time it's pretty accurate, but of course it's not perfect. Actually it's far from perfect. The silences, quiet parts and length of the song matter a lot when it comes to LUFS. But even changing the BPM/tempo of the song can make it louder. If you have a song that's -8LUFS Integrated, extend the into and the outro with soft quiet sounds, change the BPM from 110 to 80, the song will probably go to around -10LUFS Integrated.
David! Excellent content thank you :) Been a while, life was wild but look at you - I remember when you first began and not yet confident. You've come so far, well done :) I hope it inspires others to take leaps of faith. My best to you.
you really are doing gods work for this video. Ive recently seen another channel talk about mixing to -2.4 Lufs and argued you can just turn down the master fader without bringing up distortion/clipping. Give people what they need not what they want 🤘
A good example of a loud mix is the "Mumbai Power" by Skrillex, I think it's mixed for PA systems first and foremost. I'm often dissecting and poking that track, it's fascinating.
Very good answer. In my opinion, the more layers and elements, the quieter it’ll sound sometimes. If the 808 is super loud, there’s not as much room for the db levels in the mid range. The vocals n snares n synths might sound quiet, etc. I learned the hard way, having billions of drums and synths and strings n other instruments stacked. U only have so much Space till u hit 0 db or target peak.
I think the word 'richness' is a good word to describe a professional sounding mix. It's one word that I think is missing in the audio engineering realm - at least, I haven't heard it being used before.
@@TranceElevation No, I mean 'rich'. When a food tastes 'rich' it has a lot of flavour, but the flavours are still balanced. When a food tastes 'strong' it has a lot of flavour, but the flavours are unbalanced. An inexperienced person could mix a song with an endless supply of money and still likely get a bad sounding mix. Whereas an experienced engineer could get a good sounding mix using equipment that is not very expensive - as long as the gear is not total rubbish.
Instrumentation, sample choice, arrangement, prioritizing the right bits... I think people sometimes have this misconception that you can be loud and sound good with anything at any given point when, at least in my opinion, it's exactly as you said, the potential has to exist even before the song is recorded or layed out in the DAW. And I think a comical way of looking at how awful you can make a final product getting this process completely wrong is learning about the whole "loudness war" drama that started in the 90s. There's a bunch of good examples especially remasters.
I spend hours watching Dave he,s so interesting ,ever since I saw John ,Paul,George and Ringo,on Ed Sullivan along with 73 million people I knew music was for me in any capacity,Thanks Dave your content amazing
Yep! And since you bring up that point, it's important to use the ears and not the meters because it's super easy to get a loud reading if you have a distorted 808 playing long notes all the time, but it doesn't mean that the song will be perceived as loud.
It's called year's of experience let me guess another immature mix yeah.....it took me 11 years and 6 months to get it right watching and listening to YT videos trial and errors but finally got it!
A couple of things. First off, great vid. Loved it. Second, I always think it’s funny when people cite that -12 LUFS thing, because when I’m writing songs with my virtual instruments or recording guitars, just the basic mix I do as I go along recording tends to get well above -12. Third, I’m by no means a great engineer but I have been trying to apply the techniques you teach in your videos. Currently, I can get a song to -8 pretty consistently, thanks in large part to your teaching. Those tracks also tend to sound rich and three-dimensional and appropriately dynamic. I have gotten up to -6 once or twice, but it’s very hard to do that without just compressing the snot out of everything. So I’m sticking with my -8 standard and practicing. I hope that I can get loud, clean, three dimensional masters soon!
Great topic Dave. I would take it even further. I would like to watch the video of you explaining saturation in mastering. Very often people use some sort of saturation especially in the mid range for persived loudness. Would like to hear your opinion on this subject and how you prefer to use saturation in mastering. Thank you.
Loudness is not hard to achieve if you understand what loudness is. Just having the kniwledge brings you a long way. David has the best way of talking about this but it comes down to a simple word being a complicated issue. As always it comes down to your room. David can repeat this all day but until you can hear your room right it means nothing. I remember when i finally pit acoustic treatment, a sub, and decent monitors i realized what loudness was only cuz i could hear it and that takes u farther than anyone can explain it to you.
i was there for time, and this is a big big big topic to explain it and it's not that you're wrong, but it's a very very big.. yes, a loud master sounds actually better, but most people do not understand that mastering isn't magic and for getting in a loud, clean, good sounding mix... every step behind must be done correctly.... starting from a good recording, a good gainstaging, good use of EQ, control of dynamics... etc etc... else it's easy to go on a loud but distorted mix where the limiter distorts or clips everything, or a lifeless master since limiter has squashed everything where all elements tend having no dynamics to give "life, color and feel" to the sound... or indeed loud master that actually is pretty annoying to listen since the mix is unbalanced and probably the low end muds up everything or the highs are crazy razor sharp...
Love the channel, really helpful knowledge. Would love a video around layering kicks or layering kick samples together. Always turns to mush despite tuning, eq etc. Thanks!
Actually, LUFS meter is taking the frequency dependencies, that you are describing, into account. That is one of several differences between LUFS and normal RMS meter. Whether it's doing a good job at it all, regarding perceived loudness of music, that is a different question... But for my ears, it's definitely a step up from from other metres. Anyway, nice comment at the end about breaking the rules only, if you can follow them prior. I think, that there is something about that, indeed 😁
I think you are right about LUFS meters, they are better than an RMS meter at measuring loudness, but they're far from perfect. Just yesterday I worked on a vocal track and got to make it sound louder and clearer at a lower integrated LUFS by changing the compressor settings and nothing else.
Hi David, you are talking about a giveaway in your intro, and I am more than happy to share this nice new single, but I did not find the info? Otherwise, really informative video as usual: there is no "magic formula", and in the end, this is good news :)
Once again,I don't see any necessities for some body trying to explain what already answered ,you see that's the problem,why so many are not full of confidence in their journey,we suppose to listen carefully and understand what great engineer like 'DAVE' trying to teach,and lastly but not least put it to practises .thanks Dave and greatings from East Africa Tanzania 🇹🇿
Every question is relevant. We all have a different way of learning so there is nothing like a silly question. When you are a teacher, you will always be learning yourself because what you may have imparted to your students may not have landed because of the words used or examples given. What we have in this video is quite a simple and yet a powerful explanation bringing more clarity to the questions around loudness. Dave is a patient and extraordinary teacher 🎶😄
Thank you For always Sharing your Knowlege....Am curious, Does the Key a Song is in Affect How loud you can Push a Track? I noticed Some EDM producers tend to stay away from some keys and they claim its Easier to get louder productions in certain keys...what are your thoughts on this
Low content will most likely be your ceiling, I'm not aware of anyone actively avoiding to go too low because of this but hey, there's so crazy people out there
If you don't gain stage properly throughout your mix, you're going to have less headroom to work with and as a result, not be able to achieve the loudest possible mix? You gotta get this right before you can start thinking about adding clippers, etc to achieve that loudness.
@@phladjki Well, that's why I put a question mark. To me it makes sense that it would have some affect on the loudness potential. I know my mixes had way more loudness potential when I payed closer attention to gain staging.
@@davejohnsonmusic if it works for you stick to it. Proper gain staging will give you headroom, but loudness always relates to how you eq and compress. If a bus is running too hot, i pull it down. I have VCAs setup so i can pull the whole mix down if i need more headroom, without affecting anything. It’s about perception not numbers. So many people on youtube says you have to gain stage to -18 do the analog emulations will work optimally. I don’t care about any of those. To me it’s about what i feel. I don’t have to gain stage to everyone’s standards to feel something. As long as my clients are happy, I’m happy. Do what works for you though.
Personally I'm not focus on loudness. But on dynamic. Most of my mixes are loud but for me it is not on a first place. Off course last word belongs to client.
I use a limiter on my master, and get the LUFS level where I need it. I also get the meter to hit right at 0 dB. It's STILL too soft. It's so frustrating. I keep thinking I have to crush the crap out of it, just to make it loud enough. I don't want to do that. I have to figure out how to make my final product as loud as radio songs.
hey i saw alot of enginerrs master on their mixbuss, why is that? an example is lil skies engineer, on the song fidget (his mixing breakdown is on YT) and you can see there that his whole master chain is on the mixbuss and he got nothing on the master
yo one helpful thing i like to do is to take a track i like and completely cut out the mono signal to hear what is going on in the sides (how much of an element is stereo, how loud, how wide).......... its also nice to look at the span of only the sides to get a sense of the tone they choose on the sides and how much low or high end they left in
@@grantgibbs4803 Thank you man, I will totally try that! I have been trying hard to get that right... Have you listened to "My Man" by Becky G? Jaycen Joshua mixed that and I think it sounds so good! Wide but so heavy!
Great video. 👍 I think a lot of people are doing both mixing and mastering and as such are trying to make a mix loud, and really should focus on making the mix balanced and pleasing. Then at the mastering stage worry about loudness. However, I think there should be a nice balance of loudness and dynamics. Too much of anything is bad. As long as it's loud enough to be competitive it's fine. Maybe the next song might be louder but they had to compromise on frequencies somewhere and it shows especially on nice systems. I used to try to master to -6 LUFS and that is just outrageous. It's nearly impossible to make it sound clean that loud. Now I stick to about -13 LUFS and that is plenty loud and still sounds balanced and non ear fatiguing. But the primary platform I mix for is streaming and RUclips. So -13 LUFS is just right for those platforms. A person may have to push it louder for a club master. -10 LUFS or -9 I think.
@@jackSo42 well the genre might want it louder, but for good audio fidelity it shouldn't be too loud. You might be saying that EDM wants the music super loud, but it defeats the purpose of making music "dancy", people like dynamics in music, and to squash it all away, makes it loud, but people turn it down to a pleasing level anyway, and all the audio fidelity is destroyed. If they want to blast the music louder, they can simply turn it up. -13 LUFS is not quiet at all. It is loud and clear.
@@jackSo42 plus you don't know what the hell you are talking about. The mixing stage is not where everything should be made loud. It is at the mastering stage where it should be made loud. Most mastering engineers I deal with want the music peaking at -6db before you send it to them, and others can live with -3db peak. The mastering engineer will make it loud. You should really spend more time watching videos and learning than commenting stupid nonsense.
@@vigilantestylez don't worry I'm very knowledgeable about how to make a good mix that sounds loud... besides, your -6db peak, it doesn't make sense in the digital air... you lower the gain of your file, if you need headroom in peak value ... the mastering sound engineer's role is not to create loudness, he will effectively compress but it is to bring a patina... what you're saying about genres of music is just wrong... you do dubstep at -13lufs, it'll be shit because the nature of sound design means you can't sound at -13lufs and well sound ... the dynamic depends on the style of music
@@vigilantestylez and you will have better results, if you distribute your compression on all your tracks and your mixing buses...than if you limit your master file violently...it's just logical in fact...
One the one hand side you ask “how many dynamic range do you need” and on the other hand side you say loudness is a compromise. Wouldn’t the perfect dynnamic range be the minimum without making compromises?
I'm going to ask you, is there such thing a perfect dynamic range? My answer is no, the "perfect" dynamic range is what a given mix engineer feels is right for a given song, that not only changes dramatically between genres, but song to song. And I assume you meant the maximum not the minimum. If it was the minimum that would be basically no dynamic range, which would be as bad as wild dynamic range. If everyone was happy with "natural" dynamic range why compression, limiting, clipping and saturation are arguably the most used tools in mixing? Why so many compressors? Because too much dynamic range is arguably more annoying than too little. And in mixing, almost everything is a compromise, it's not a bad thing, just like everything else, the art and the skills are to work within those limitations. But above all, it's all a matter of context: a metal track won't need the same DR than a jazz track, and they would both sound like ass if you swap one DR for the other. You wouldn't put 1000hp on a Prius just like you won't expect a Shelby Corba to be good on gas mileage
@@mixbustv Actually I meant minimum dynamic range without compromises in the way, that the mix can be as loud as possible without making any compromises. As long as compressorss and limiters and little dynamic range is used to make sound, it’s not a compromise, it’s what we all want. But as soon as I have the feeling it’s compromise that I only make to get it louder, then it’s too loud for me.
@@JM_2019 I think it's better to look at it not as making a compromise to make it louder, but as a choice to make it better. Louder it's better only up to the point where it's not.
“You can’t break the rules if you don’t know them first, what are you breaking?” 😂 Also, that outro song of Bella’s in my opinion is a good example of good perceived loudness. Whenever I am listening to your videos in the car and the outro song comes on, it sounds loud and I only turn it down because it’s loud and not because it’s harsh or piercing. But then again, I assume you master her music anyway, and you know what you’re doing so there’s that lol. We’re the students in the end, thank you for this! 🙏🏽
Has anyone had this problem? A few months ago i did my first PT mix. My set up is PTHD Native 9, Aurora16ADDA, Adam A7X, session @24/96, semi treated room. The mix sounds amazing, balanced, loud, all levels look good, BUT, when i bounce to disk and open MP3 in ITunes, its a completley different mix, and sounds like trash, it sucked out all the low end and low mids and leaves a cheap compressed and mostly treble sound AND the song is at least 1/3 lower in volume. I tried about 50 different mixes trying every different combination possible but no improvement. Finally what i had to do to compensate/cheat the mix in order to try to get it fuller and louder sounding on itunes, and that meant Cranking the hell out of all the bass frequency instrument tracks and slamming the MB fader till it was in the Red,.. and i then got a little louder MP3, but still too much sonic info was missing. At this point In the control room the Mix before “Bouncing to disk” really sucked as was now way unbalanced and lopsided since i had to boost all bass frequencies to translate to a full spectrum MP3 bounce... On my MB i have UAD pultecs, Fairchild, Kush Clarphonic, Into Maxim ( tried with and without dither 16 bit engaged) , ... levels look good, but i did not use trim plugins anywhere in the session, but all meters look good throughout session. I even paid Avid for a tech support call, but no solution. Spent months reading forums but other people who experienced same problem, none of the advice given helped me. I’ll be updating all my software in a few months and bought Metric AB and Streamliner to help assist me, once i upgrade everything. Any ideas?
I'm having the same issue (I'm a relative newbie - 1yr) and I noticed that my 44.1/24b mix sounded great until I mixed down to MP3/4. 1st off, I didn't dither to 16bit - dithering now makes a nicer, slight clarity difference (using fabfilter L2). 2nd, I'm learning that tracking makes an ENORMOUS difference (live gtr,bass,vox in my case). This answers the video's question as to why do pro mixes sound so much better/fuller at lower levels...Pro tracking! You have to record the source in a way that gives you that volume & punch & harmonics, etc. That's why studios have certain instruments, mics, cabinets, pre's, comp's, etc. - They figured out a formula to give them their desired result. It's impossible to replicate those recorded sounds with plugins. The more they're added to the mix, the harsher & flatter sounding it gets.
@@mjmack8787 Yes i tried using 16 bit dither in Maxim and still no change. My session was at 24/96. I think either way PT “Bounce To Disk” feature automatically dithers it down to 16 bit wether you use Maxim dither or not. I also tried printing the mix onto a stereo channel instead of using the BTD, but as soon as i open in itunes, its the same crap. I also tried BTD at the same resolution as the session 24/96 and let Itunes do the translation to MP3, rather than using the BTD feature, but no difference, all the same problems, loss of low end, low mids, volume, and whats left sounds cheap and squashed. I used both live tracked instruments and vocals and NI Samples. All levels were healthy on the way in, no clipping, just kissing the yellow on input, Plenty of dynamic range left over.
@@kelainefes Yes i have uploaded it directly to Reverbnation,... with same terrible results. But i will try what you suggested and import the mp3 file back into PT and listen.. 👍
When and where did you hear that audio engineering is only to make a track loud exactly? Nowhere. I thought so. Loudness sucks for those who don't know how to do it.
The only thing he can’t teach is how to use your ears….that’s why alot of you are struggling. It dawned on me from a previous video he made that none of it would make sense until my ears are trained
Dave, do a shootout between SIR Standard CLIP vz. UrsaDSP Boost for the best gain stage clipper. No, your Kazrog KClip is not as good as the aforementioned. LoL 😅
@@mixbustv No sense in shootout then. Interesting. Well something along the lines here: MIDI 2.0 coming out with billions of options in 32-bit in lieu of 8-bit 128 different values that are in MIDI 1.0.. Be prepared for the untrained to make trained real-analog sounding music.
Yes the only one, besides these Deep Purple, McSolaar (2x platinum), Minstry, Ladytron, Felix Da Housecat, Ryan Shuck (Orgy, Adema, Julien-K), Jon Dette (Slayer, Anthrax, Volbeat, Testament), Daniel Graves (Aesthetic Perfection), Blitz Union, Wes Geer (Korn, Hed PE), Hu3m3n, Brooke Colucci, Mad Gallica, Ty Oliver, System Syn, Danny Blu, Sammi Doll (IAMX), Street Sects, Lizzy Jeff, Vizin, Nolan Neal, Kaos India, Raygun Romance, Hellfire Society, Izzy T, Robben Ford, Audyaroad, Lambstone, Rhumornero, Yng Hstlr, Sydney Valette, Stonebreed, Valeria Rossi, Universal, Nettwerk, Danse Macabre, Virgin Radio and these www.discogs.com/artist/1432655-David-Gnozzi?superFilter=Technical But yes she's my fiancee and she is the only artist I ALSO produce because I really don't want to produce anyone else. That's the deal.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "Loudness Is NOT In Mastering" saved my mixes AND my masters. Such a G.O.A.T. video.
What are your tips for mixing it for loudness ?
Arrangement plays a big role for sure. The freq spectrum we work with is like sonic real estate. Imagine two streets of same length side by side,
If you decide to put only 3 houses on one street then you can afford to make those 3 houses very big, if on the other street you decide to put 20 houses they need to be smaller houses in order to fit.
That’s a cool analogy, nice. Worth mentioning that, while you may have 20 houses, you may decide to build some larger than others.
Well said David. Great video! Real info from a real pro.
It's pretty incredible how you can give more and more information about this subject every time, even if you already have a TON and I learned so much from you 🙏🙏
He's always been such a generous and good teacher - I discovered David right when I needed to and couldn't begin to tell you how much I've learned and how much it's helped me.
sound selection makes a huge difference to the end result
THIS here IS the key !!
Proper Sound selection is what will allow for a loud mix !
“Engineering is the management of tradeoffs.” This was told to me while I was trying to teach myself some electrical engineering but I believe it applies to a lot of things to include audio production. Was reminded of this when you mentioned “compromise” a few times in this video. Dig your channel.
No cap bro! You give the best audio engineering advice ever!! You a real GEE!!
it answers the question, but it doesn't tell us how to do it 😥
seriously, always appreciate the straight-forward answers on this channel. no BS, just firing truth and knowledge our way.
One of the many things I dig bout you videos is your, right to the point frankness. I'm of the same mindset: no "The Emperor's New Clothes" BS. Most of all...your experience is invaluable.
Thank you.
Perfect timing I was having an issue trying to get a song up to -7Db LUFS which was what the reference track is at. I have to say it’s not easy at all. All I kept saying to myself is how the F does David manage to get things so loud. I will achieve it no matter how long it takes. Keep up the good work. Love the vids. Best advice on YT period.
Have not watched yet, but willing to bet he says it's mix and crest factor 😇
Nope, I've said that enough already
Appreciate the answer my guy💯 I may have questioned it in a general way as i'm able to get my track up to 6-8 depending on density. You've still gave me some new tips, greetings from Europe❤
Ear fatigue kills mixes dead ☠️ Treat the room! Set good operating level. Calibrate the monitors. Take breaks and reset your ear holes. Don’t overthink it.
Yep, ear fatigue sucks - and you don't even notice it happening until you've already butchered the mix.
@@beachforestmountain4269 when I find myself thinking that more than one track needs a HF boost I know I need to take a break.
Yes ... I'm entering now a phase going from loud and squeezed to death with no dynamics to give it a little space man😄, so I have an opposite problem, haha. But, yeah, it takes a lot of years, talent and managing a lot of things (even just knowing when things are bad, but not knowing how to fix it is a huge step forward:)) at the same time to make mastering and loudness right. If your basic mix is way off, forget it. There are so many things that could go wrong here it's not even funny. One small move in the wrong direction and it's game over. At the end it's like playing tetris with wrong pieces. :)) Great video again. And yeah, that's why you pay the mix engineer.
Thank You for the clarification
you are simply great and generous Thank you for all the info you are giving, bless
This video suddenly made a lot of things click for me! Thank you!
Mixing skills, good ears/hearing, good equipment go a long way of course. But it's also sound selection that's very important for loudness. You can't make a jazz song as loud as a heavy metal song. You can try to, but the end result will be trash. We also have to keep harmonic content in mind. A soft sounding piano will also never be as loud as a trumpet. I put distortion on a piano, it sounds like shit most of the time, I put distortion on a trumpet, it sounds more aggressive but the distortion is less noticeable, because distortion is mostly added harmonic content, and the trumpet already has a lot of it, but the piano doesn't. So the piano sounds weird with distortion, but the trumpet still sounds good most of the time.
What a lot of people these days seem to ignore, is the fact that most of the music on the radio is distorted. Music in today's world revolves around money, loudness makes the music more attention grabbing, therefore more sales. So even though many professionals can get a loud AND clean mix, they are forced to ride the bandwagon and make the song extremely loud even at the cost of cleanliness. Most people listen to music on small speakers, their phones, TV that doesn't even go lower than 150-200hz, shitty car speakers(even if they're good your car is not a studio lol) small bluetooth speakers etc. So most people can't hear that distortion anyway. The loudness wars will never end. But don't overthink when you compare your songs to the songs on the radio, they are definitely too loud and distorted most of the time, they might seem impressive when you first hear it, but then you will realize that it sounds like crap when you turn the volume up, it will fatigue your ears immediately, and the distortion will be so obvious (especially on headphones).
Another important thing is masking, you have songs like Chromeo - Footwork that are reeeally loud AND also distorted, but you can't hear that distortion because of all the harmonic content in the synthesizers, and all the fast, loud, active hi-hats that mask the high frequency range. You can have all of your sounds distorting on their own, but when combined together they can hide their flaws, who cares if they distort on their own, just use automation if and disable/lower the distortion or compression on a sound when it plays on it's own, and activate it again when the other sounds join in.
Some other stuff I've also learned is not to care too much about the numbers. Or in this case, LUFS.
LUFS is basically a loudness measurement that I think works kinda like RMS, but it also takes into account human hearing perception. Most of the time it's pretty accurate, but of course it's not perfect.
Actually it's far from perfect. The silences, quiet parts and length of the song matter a lot when it comes to LUFS. But even changing the BPM/tempo of the song can make it louder.
If you have a song that's -8LUFS Integrated, extend the into and the outro with soft quiet sounds, change the BPM from 110 to 80, the song will probably go to around -10LUFS Integrated.
You’re Good
@@jayplay7578so he seems
David! Excellent content thank you :) Been a while, life was wild but look at you - I remember when you first began and not yet confident. You've come so far, well done :) I hope it inspires others to take leaps of faith. My best to you.
We always learn something from you whatever it is!
Very true 😌🔥
Nice! The end was spot on!
you really are doing gods work for this video. Ive recently seen another channel talk about mixing to -2.4 Lufs and argued you can just turn down the master fader without bringing up distortion/clipping. Give people what they need not what they want 🤘
A good example of a loud mix is the "Mumbai Power" by Skrillex, I think it's mixed for PA systems first and foremost. I'm often dissecting and poking that track, it's fascinating.
Yes true. nice track tho
Great explanation! Thanks 🙏
“Fuck you…why did you do that” oh man that shit hit me so hard
So well explained.👏🏼👏🏼
Thanks David!
pure gold
Love the shirt
The info is great too as always but that goes without saying haha keep it up
dropping some more knowledge there! 💪
As Always cheers
Thanks!!
Excellent !!!!
On the nail as always.
very true!
Very good answer. In my opinion, the more layers and elements, the quieter it’ll sound sometimes. If the 808 is super loud, there’s not as much room for the db levels in the mid range. The vocals n snares n synths might sound quiet, etc. I learned the hard way, having billions of drums and synths and strings n other instruments stacked. U only have so much Space till u hit 0 db or target peak.
Awsome vid👍🙂 ,,it is not about high volume ,,is about depth,,high and low frequancies,, God bless You
The number of instruments fighting for same spectrum and beat intervals also affect the perceived loudness.
I think the word 'richness' is a good word to describe a professional sounding mix. It's one word that I think is missing in the audio engineering realm - at least, I haven't heard it being used before.
Spot on
You mean "expensive" sounding, not rich.
@@TranceElevation No, I mean 'rich'. When a food tastes 'rich' it has a lot of flavour, but the flavours are still balanced. When a food tastes 'strong' it has a lot of flavour, but the flavours are unbalanced.
An inexperienced person could mix a song with an endless supply of money and still likely get a bad sounding mix. Whereas an experienced engineer could get a good sounding mix using equipment that is not very expensive - as long as the gear is not total rubbish.
Another great one bud!
Instrumentation, sample choice, arrangement, prioritizing the right bits... I think people sometimes have this misconception that you can be loud and sound good with anything at any given point when, at least in my opinion, it's exactly as you said, the potential has to exist even before the song is recorded or layed out in the DAW. And I think a comical way of looking at how awful you can make a final product getting this process completely wrong is learning about the whole "loudness war" drama that started in the 90s. There's a bunch of good examples especially remasters.
I spend hours watching Dave he,s so interesting ,ever since I saw John ,Paul,George and Ringo,on Ed Sullivan along with 73 million people I knew music was for me in any capacity,Thanks Dave your content amazing
🙏🙌
I think it starts even before that! The arrangement matters a lot! And that's why you hire a producer 😉😁
Yep! And since you bring up that point, it's important to use the ears and not the meters because it's super easy to get a loud reading if you have a distorted 808 playing long notes all the time, but it doesn't mean that the song will be perceived as loud.
Thank you for the tips 🙂
It's called year's of experience let me guess another immature mix yeah.....it took me 11 years and 6 months to get it right watching and listening to YT videos trial and errors but finally got it!
A couple of things.
First off, great vid. Loved it.
Second, I always think it’s funny when people cite that -12 LUFS thing, because when I’m writing songs with my virtual instruments or recording guitars, just the basic mix I do as I go along recording tends to get well above -12.
Third, I’m by no means a great engineer but I have been trying to apply the techniques you teach in your videos. Currently, I can get a song to -8 pretty consistently, thanks in large part to your teaching. Those tracks also tend to sound rich and three-dimensional and appropriately dynamic. I have gotten up to -6 once or twice, but it’s very hard to do that without just compressing the snot out of everything. So I’m sticking with my -8 standard and practicing. I hope that I can get loud, clean, three dimensional masters soon!
🙏 that's awesome, thank you!
Great topic Dave. I would take it even further. I would like to watch the video of you explaining saturation in mastering. Very often people use some sort of saturation especially in the mid range for persived loudness. Would like to hear your opinion on this subject and how you prefer to use saturation in mastering.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Loudness is not hard to achieve if you understand what loudness is. Just having the kniwledge brings you a long way. David has the best way of talking about this but it comes down to a simple word being a complicated issue. As always it comes down to your room. David can repeat this all day but until you can hear your room right it means nothing. I remember when i finally pit acoustic treatment, a sub, and decent monitors i realized what loudness was only cuz i could hear it and that takes u farther than anyone can explain it to you.
Could you do a video on Acoustics and maybe show what you have in your studio and the reasoning behind placing specific panels where you did?
i was there for time, and this is a big big big topic to explain it and it's not that you're wrong, but it's a very very big.. yes, a loud master sounds actually better, but most people do not understand that mastering isn't magic and for getting in a loud, clean, good sounding mix... every step behind must be done correctly.... starting from a good recording, a good gainstaging, good use of EQ, control of dynamics... etc etc... else it's easy to go on a loud but distorted mix where the limiter distorts or clips everything, or a lifeless master since limiter has squashed everything where all elements tend having no dynamics to give "life, color and feel" to the sound... or indeed loud master that actually is pretty annoying to listen since the mix is unbalanced and probably the low end muds up everything or the highs are crazy razor sharp...
Love the channel, really helpful knowledge. Would love a video around layering kicks or layering kick samples together. Always turns to mush despite tuning, eq etc. Thanks!
Ciao David, how are you. Great weekend and happy Halloween everyone 🎃👹🔥🤘
Thanx for that insight Bruh...i always thought the loudness is in mastering ...bt no its in mixing ...thanx
Love your q and a ...
GOAT!
Because you need a great balance ..
Actually, LUFS meter is taking the frequency dependencies, that you are describing, into account. That is one of several differences between LUFS and normal RMS meter. Whether it's doing a good job at it all, regarding perceived loudness of music, that is a different question... But for my ears, it's definitely a step up from from other metres.
Anyway, nice comment at the end about breaking the rules only, if you can follow them prior. I think, that there is something about that, indeed 😁
I think you are right about LUFS meters, they are better than an RMS meter at measuring loudness, but they're far from perfect.
Just yesterday I worked on a vocal track and got to make it sound louder and clearer at a lower integrated LUFS by changing the compressor settings and nothing else.
@@kelainefes better than RMS, but on a improvement scale to 10 it's a 2 lol.
'ThIS iS WhY YoU PaY A MIxINg EnGiNEeR"
he's beating around the bush
I don't need to, I'm *beyond* good, and you're also here watching my vids. Try again.
@@mixbustv im just saying that statement was egotistical why not influence people to learn for themselves rather then being condescending 🤷♂️
Hi David, you are talking about a giveaway in your intro, and I am more than happy to share this nice new single, but I did not find the info?
Otherwise, really informative video as usual: there is no "magic formula", and in the end, this is good news :)
Here you go WIN AUDIENT INTERFACE: ruclips.net/video/jee7W6x5_f8/видео.html
🔥🔥🔥
Once again,I don't see any necessities for some body trying to explain what already answered ,you see that's the problem,why so many are not full of confidence in their journey,we suppose to listen carefully and understand what great engineer like 'DAVE' trying to teach,and lastly but not least put it to practises .thanks Dave and greatings from East Africa Tanzania 🇹🇿
Every question is relevant. We all have a different way of learning so there is nothing like a silly question. When you are a teacher, you will always be learning yourself because what you may have imparted to your students may not have landed because of the words used or examples given. What we have in this video is quite a simple and yet a powerful explanation bringing more clarity to the questions around loudness. Dave is a patient and extraordinary teacher 🎶😄
Thank you For always Sharing your Knowlege....Am curious, Does the Key a Song is in Affect How loud you can Push a Track? I noticed Some EDM producers tend to stay away from some keys and they claim its Easier to get louder productions in certain keys...what are your thoughts on this
Low content will most likely be your ceiling, I'm not aware of anyone actively avoiding to go too low because of this but hey, there's so crazy people out there
Make sense
If you don't gain stage properly throughout your mix, you're going to have less headroom to work with and as a result, not be able to achieve the loudest possible mix? You gotta get this right before you can start thinking about adding clippers, etc to achieve that loudness.
gain staging is only a small factor which can be ignored altogether
I agree with the other comment here - has almost nothing to do with gain staging
@@phladjki Well, that's why I put a question mark. To me it makes sense that it would have some affect on the loudness potential. I know my mixes had way more loudness potential when I payed closer attention to gain staging.
@@davejohnsonmusic if it works for you stick to it. Proper gain staging will give you headroom, but loudness always relates to how you eq and compress. If a bus is running too hot, i pull it down. I have VCAs setup so i can pull the whole mix down if i need more headroom, without affecting anything. It’s about perception not numbers.
So many people on youtube says you have to gain stage to -18 do the analog emulations will work optimally. I don’t care about any of those. To me it’s about what i feel. I don’t have to gain stage to everyone’s standards to feel something. As long as my clients are happy, I’m happy.
Do what works for you though.
Personally I'm not focus on loudness. But on dynamic. Most of my mixes are loud but for me it is not on a first place. Off course last word belongs to client.
1 year after, did you change your mind?
Whats that controller on the desktop that is on the corner, right of the mouse?
I would get a reference track or a goal in mind and adjust speakers first before anything. Just twist knobs till it sound good.
I use a limiter on my master, and get the LUFS level where I need it. I also get the meter to hit right at 0 dB. It's STILL too soft. It's so frustrating. I keep thinking I have to crush the crap out of it, just to make it loud enough. I don't want to do that. I have to figure out how to make my final product as loud as radio songs.
Start here ruclips.net/video/lk4D4bMu8uo/видео.html
altho' people hire professionals for a reason
👊🏿👊🏿👊🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
I notic there is a sweet spot between bass and the rest of of the instruments in trap mixes. you want your low/mids to float on top on the 808
Your video right here is louder, more colourful sound and broader than I can achieve with my songs. Why ???
Cause I mix music for a living?
hey i saw alot of enginerrs master on their mixbuss, why is that? an example is lil skies engineer, on the song fidget (his mixing breakdown is on YT) and you can see there that his whole master chain is on the mixbuss and he got nothing on the master
The question is more if you do like how his stuff sounds.
@@mixbustv yeah im inlove with the song and how the mix sounds
What is the most effective way to make sure you use all the space in the stereo field while also having a strong "anchor" for the song?
This has basically the same answer than the question in the video
yo one helpful thing i like to do is to take a track i like and completely cut out the mono signal to hear what is going on in the sides (how much of an element is stereo, how loud, how wide).......... its also nice to look at the span of only the sides to get a sense of the tone they choose on the sides and how much low or high end they left in
@@grantgibbs4803 Thank you man, I will totally try that! I have been trying hard to get that right... Have you listened to "My Man" by Becky G?
Jaycen Joshua mixed that and I think it sounds so good! Wide but so heavy!
@@klausmatrajt8480 No but Ill listen now!
Great video. 👍 I think a lot of people are doing both mixing and mastering and as such are trying to make a mix loud, and really should focus on making the mix balanced and pleasing. Then at the mastering stage worry about loudness. However, I think there should be a nice balance of loudness and dynamics. Too much of anything is bad. As long as it's loud enough to be competitive it's fine. Maybe the next song might be louder but they had to compromise on frequencies somewhere and it shows especially on nice systems. I used to try to master to -6 LUFS and that is just outrageous. It's nearly impossible to make it sound clean that loud. Now I stick to about -13 LUFS and that is plenty loud and still sounds balanced and non ear fatiguing. But the primary platform I mix for is streaming and RUclips. So -13 LUFS is just right for those platforms. A person may have to push it louder for a club master. -10 LUFS or -9 I think.
To be loud it's during the production and mixing stage , not mastering...and target -13 lufs is a nonsense...all depending of the music genre
@@jackSo42 well the genre might want it louder, but for good audio fidelity it shouldn't be too loud. You might be saying that EDM wants the music super loud, but it defeats the purpose of making music "dancy", people like dynamics in music, and to squash it all away, makes it loud, but people turn it down to a pleasing level anyway, and all the audio fidelity is destroyed. If they want to blast the music louder, they can simply turn it up. -13 LUFS is not quiet at all. It is loud and clear.
@@jackSo42 plus you don't know what the hell you are talking about. The mixing stage is not where everything should be made loud. It is at the mastering stage where it should be made loud. Most mastering engineers I deal with want the music peaking at -6db before you send it to them, and others can live with -3db peak. The mastering engineer will make it loud. You should really spend more time watching videos and learning than commenting stupid nonsense.
@@vigilantestylez don't worry I'm very knowledgeable about how to make a good mix that sounds loud... besides, your -6db peak, it doesn't make sense in the digital air... you lower the gain of your file, if you need headroom in peak value ... the mastering sound engineer's role is not to create loudness, he will effectively compress but it is to bring a patina... what you're saying about genres of music is just wrong... you do dubstep at -13lufs, it'll be shit because the nature of sound design means you can't sound at -13lufs and well sound ... the dynamic depends on the style of music
@@vigilantestylez and you will have better results, if you distribute your compression on all your tracks and your mixing buses...than if you limit your master file violently...it's just logical in fact...
why dont you make a video on mastering for Dynamics not loudness
Because mixing is there for that
@@mixbustv i am talking about mastering for loudness vs dynamics there is a difference
The blurry effect on this video is a bit disturbing, particularly on your face. By the way, I love your content.
I used to think it was advantageous to use a linear phase EQ on the two bus. (facepalm)
I can not hear 18 kHz with 45😂 my roll off startes at about 13.5kHz
One the one hand side you ask “how many dynamic range do you need” and on the other hand side you say loudness is a compromise. Wouldn’t the perfect dynnamic range be the minimum without making compromises?
I'm going to ask you, is there such thing a perfect dynamic range? My answer is no, the "perfect" dynamic range is what a given mix engineer feels is right for a given song, that not only changes dramatically between genres, but song to song. And I assume you meant the maximum not the minimum. If it was the minimum that would be basically no dynamic range, which would be as bad as wild dynamic range. If everyone was happy with "natural" dynamic range why compression, limiting, clipping and saturation are arguably the most used tools in mixing? Why so many compressors? Because too much dynamic range is arguably more annoying than too little. And in mixing, almost everything is a compromise, it's not a bad thing, just like everything else, the art and the skills are to work within those limitations. But above all, it's all a matter of context: a metal track won't need the same DR than a jazz track, and they would both sound like ass if you swap one DR for the other. You wouldn't put 1000hp on a Prius just like you won't expect a Shelby Corba to be good on gas mileage
@@mixbustv Actually I meant minimum dynamic range without compromises in the way, that the mix can be as loud as possible without making any compromises. As long as compressorss and limiters and little dynamic range is used to make sound, it’s not a compromise, it’s what we all want. But as soon as I have the feeling it’s compromise that I only make to get it louder, then it’s too loud for me.
@@JM_2019 I think it's better to look at it not as making a compromise to make it louder, but as a choice to make it better.
Louder it's better only up to the point where it's not.
“You can’t break the rules if you don’t know them first, what are you breaking?” 😂
Also, that outro song of Bella’s in my opinion is a good example of good perceived loudness. Whenever I am listening to your videos in the car and the outro song comes on, it sounds loud and I only turn it down because it’s loud and not because it’s harsh or piercing. But then again, I assume you master her music anyway, and you know what you’re doing so there’s that lol.
We’re the students in the end, thank you for this! 🙏🏽
:D yes I do everything on her music, and mind you that the outro is actually 70% of the actual track because people complained it was too loud
@@mixbustv Goddamn, even at 70% it’s impressive. Caught me off guard with that response. Things like that inspire me.
10,000 little decisions. That's it.
Has anyone had this problem? A few months ago i did my first PT mix. My set up is PTHD Native 9, Aurora16ADDA, Adam A7X, session @24/96, semi treated room.
The mix sounds amazing, balanced, loud, all levels look good, BUT, when i bounce to disk and open MP3 in ITunes, its a completley different mix, and sounds like trash, it sucked out all the low end and low mids and leaves a cheap compressed and mostly treble sound AND the song is at least 1/3 lower in volume. I tried about 50 different mixes trying every different combination possible but no improvement. Finally what i had to do to compensate/cheat the mix in order to try to get it fuller and louder sounding on itunes, and that meant Cranking the hell out of all the bass frequency instrument tracks and slamming the MB fader till it was in the Red,.. and i then got a little louder MP3, but still too much sonic info was missing. At this point In the control room the Mix before “Bouncing to disk” really sucked as was now way unbalanced and lopsided since i had to boost all bass frequencies to translate to a full spectrum MP3 bounce... On my MB i have UAD pultecs, Fairchild, Kush Clarphonic, Into Maxim ( tried with and without dither 16 bit engaged) , ... levels look good, but i did not use trim plugins anywhere in the session, but all meters look good throughout session. I even paid Avid for a tech support call, but no solution. Spent months reading forums but other people who experienced same problem, none of the advice given helped me. I’ll be updating all my software in a few months and bought Metric AB and Streamliner to help assist me, once i upgrade everything. Any ideas?
I'm having the same issue (I'm a relative newbie - 1yr) and I noticed that my 44.1/24b mix sounded great until I mixed down to MP3/4. 1st off, I didn't dither to 16bit - dithering now makes a nicer, slight clarity difference (using fabfilter L2). 2nd, I'm learning that tracking makes an ENORMOUS difference (live gtr,bass,vox in my case). This answers the video's question as to why do pro mixes sound so much better/fuller at lower levels...Pro tracking! You have to record the source in a way that gives you that volume & punch & harmonics, etc. That's why studios have certain instruments, mics, cabinets, pre's, comp's, etc. - They figured out a formula to give them their desired result. It's impossible to replicate those recorded sounds with plugins. The more they're added to the mix, the harsher & flatter sounding it gets.
@@mjmack8787 Yes i tried using 16 bit dither in Maxim and still no change. My session was at 24/96. I think either way PT “Bounce To Disk” feature automatically dithers it down to 16 bit wether you use Maxim dither or not. I also tried printing the mix onto a stereo channel instead of using the BTD, but as soon as i open in itunes, its the same crap.
I also tried BTD at the same resolution as the session 24/96 and let Itunes do the translation to MP3, rather than using the BTD feature, but no difference, all the same problems, loss of low end, low mids, volume, and whats left sounds cheap and squashed. I used both live tracked instruments and vocals and NI Samples. All levels were healthy on the way in, no clipping, just kissing the yellow on input, Plenty of dynamic range left over.
Have you tried listening to the MP3 with another player?
Even just importing it back in PT would let you see if there is an issue with iTunes.
@@kelainefes Yes i have uploaded it directly to Reverbnation,... with same terrible results. But i will try what you suggested and import the mp3 file back into PT and listen.. 👍
@@philmartin7474 and then import the .wav/aiff bounce and check if it is the same as the MP3
Audio-Engineering is NOT only make a track loud and louder! Really good tracks have a wide range of dynamic. Loudness sucks
When and where did you hear that audio engineering is only to make a track loud exactly? Nowhere. I thought so.
Loudness sucks for those who don't know how to do it.
The only thing he can’t teach is how to use your ears….that’s why alot of you are struggling. It dawned on me from a previous video he made that none of it would make sense until my ears are trained
My maaster is 2 loud bro
Dave, do a shootout between SIR Standard CLIP vz. UrsaDSP Boost for the best gain stage clipper. No, your Kazrog KClip is not as good as the aforementioned. LoL 😅
I have SIR, there are e other clippers using the same code... Also Kclip can be multiband, I doubt the others can, and I'm mostly using Tc anyway
@@mixbustv No sense in shootout then. Interesting. Well something along the lines here: MIDI 2.0 coming out with billions of options in 32-bit in lieu of 8-bit 128 different values that are in MIDI 1.0.. Be prepared for the untrained to make trained real-analog sounding music.
Is that bella character the only artist you work with.. are you a couple or something.. what's the deal
Yes the only one, besides these
Deep Purple, McSolaar (2x platinum), Minstry, Ladytron, Felix Da Housecat, Ryan Shuck (Orgy, Adema, Julien-K), Jon Dette (Slayer, Anthrax, Volbeat, Testament), Daniel Graves (Aesthetic Perfection), Blitz Union, Wes Geer (Korn, Hed PE), Hu3m3n, Brooke Colucci, Mad Gallica, Ty Oliver, System Syn, Danny Blu, Sammi Doll (IAMX), Street Sects, Lizzy Jeff, Vizin, Nolan Neal, Kaos India, Raygun Romance, Hellfire Society, Izzy T, Robben Ford, Audyaroad, Lambstone, Rhumornero, Yng Hstlr, Sydney Valette, Stonebreed, Valeria Rossi, Universal, Nettwerk, Danse Macabre, Virgin Radio
and these
www.discogs.com/artist/1432655-David-Gnozzi?superFilter=Technical
But yes she's my fiancee and she is the only artist I ALSO produce because I really don't want to produce anyone else.
That's the deal.
i would like bella if she just would be herself idk
Which she does 100%
🔥🔥