Hi Charlie. Just letting anyone who has looked at building the speedometer with the Arduino unit that Bob provided instructions for, that he has now updated the circuit diagram to correctly connect the data and clock pins. Obviously, only those that have tried it before today will need to look at the changes. Under the old diagram the display unit would not work at all but simply switching the 2 wires connected to A4 and A5 solves it. As I say though, the drawing is now correct anyway. I have also sourced a 7 segment display at only £6.99 (post free) which works perfectly and reduced the total cost to about £12.
3 years late to the party on this one. I built Bob's Speedometer, and it works great. I altered the sketch so that it would read in kph instead of mph. The next step is to build it into the layout. Thanks for posting this content. I'm finding new ideas and inspiration from gents like yourself every day. 👍
My Friday evening is set... finished work? Yes. Made a fresh coffee and got a couple of Jaffa Cakes? Yes. Then it’s time to sit back, relax and be educated by the Blue Peter of model railways!! Educated, entertained and ready to face the weekend and whatever the weather throws at us! Thank you once again Charlie. Well done as ever!
A £600 Pullman doing 70 mph around the helix - you're a brave man Charlie 😁 This speed test just goes to spectacularly show that you don't always get what you pay for. What I really like about your presentations, your reaction to problems and solution to challenges is that you do it all with an everyman demeanour. And I'm not even a model railway enthusiast. I love steam trains and I have some oo gauge models of my favourites under glass, but I am not an enthusiast. I used to love model making though, (when I was young enough to do it properly), and so I am appreciative and amazed at the detail that you and other railway modellers go into and achieve. It is astonishing. What got me actually watching these videos from you and others is something that happened to me almost two years ago. On a more personal note Charlie, I had your video pop up in a recommendation at the start of the Covid pandemic, and it hit the news and was getting a lot worse so I planned to finish work to self-isolate to keep safe. By the time I managed to do that it was too late, I had contracted it and spent the next four weeks on my settee, being hardly able to move due to lack of breath, I had never been so ill, or scared in my 59 years to that point. Anyway, I only had my Bluray Player and Humax boxes, no SKY, no smart TV and so I watched RUclips, trying to find long videos to pass the time. For four weeks, until the illness broke and I began to slowly recover, the channels I found on YT kept me going of which yours was one. I now want to take this opportunity to thank you, now that I have a Mini PC connected to the TV I can finally log into Google and YT, like, leave comments and subscribe, something I couldn't do on the Bluray player. I have finally subscribed to your channel (as well as all the others I used to watch), and I've also told them the same background and thanked them. Thank you.
Hi Jeff, What a heart warming comment. I'm so pleased that the channel has brought you some comfort and hopefully you are now fully recovered. Regards Charlie
Great head-to-head comparison. Thank you, Charlie. The arduino systems (Bob's) were popular on RUclips a couple years back. In the US the closest version to the commercial one is one from TCS, but I cannot speak to its accuracy. Thanks again.
The 50 and eight coaches was always a spritely run down from Waterloo to Exeter, sadly the singling past Salisbury meant the old girls couldn't get up to speed and the passing loop at Tisbury could end up with the loco waiting on a train to pass for quite some minutes despite there being a second passing loop at Gillingham that is never utilised. In the summer the 50's suffered sitting at idle in the summer heat and the passengers too because most times the heating was always (prob on purpose) stuck on the old MK1 stock.
Speed ... so exciting ... luckily no trains or locomotives got hurt or ruined during this indepth speed testing ... good explanation Charlie ... and again, love that touch of humor in the footage
Hi Charlie, Bob's kit looks impressive for the costs. Unusual but interesting project to watch. Always a pleasure to watch and listen with delight at your sense of humour, can't wait for the next video..
Good Lord Charlie! In all my years NEVER have thought about the accuracy of my train speeds. I just took for granted the speed stepping of the DC Transformer & later the DCC Controller. This episode had me focused to every word you said. As well as every image shot. As my line is down I am first going to take this video around to my four RxR Clubs to convince them to review their line speeds. FANTASTIC JOB CHUM. ~Jim
Hi Charlie.. Glad you got the cat going... Thanks for the mention.. P.s I was in A and H models today on my way back from Reading to Manchester...I met a customer in the shop by chance and we were talking about your channel..... Take care...jim
I do see a problem with the drM sensor that you tried that could give rise to the speed reporting errors that you saw. The infra-red emitters and sensors used are bare devices and they will have a certain angle of dispersion and sensitivity respectively - commonly up to around 30 degrees off-axis. That is great for devices like remote controls, but in this case it can result in a detection point that is not necessarily on-axis for both ends of the detector. That could mean that the actual detection points are closer or further apart than the sensors on the circuit board. Therefore, when measuring at a distance from the track, that difference in distance between detection points could be a significant fraction of the distance between the two sensors on the circuit board. There are two ways to try to reduce this source of error. 1) Place the board very close to the train being detected (a few mm only if possible). This minimises the variations caused by the dispersion of the IR beams; 2) use some tubes which are opaque to infra-red to block off-axis transmission and detection, those tubes being just large enough to go over the LED bodies and then to effectively "pipe" the infra-red to and from the trains location. A third option would be for the designers to significantly increase the distance between the sensors so that dispersion errors become a much smaller fraction of that distance. While the solution that they have come up with is inexpensive, industrial infra-red detector devices often include moulded bodies to ensure a very small detection error for these kinds of reasons. (Sorry for the long comment! Electronics guy here... :) )
Thanks GMG, the issue might be more serious than we suspected. All of these items have been recalled as others have exactly the same speed reading! Regards Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Interesting, and good to know. Thanks. Perhaps they can make the scale setting sticky as well, so that you don't have to re-enter it each time. Also more scales would be nice.
I find the best way to gauge speed is to briefly film the train running at what you think is the right speed … it will invariably seem to be running too fast … adjust accordingly…. Size of layout plus busyness of scenery will also play a part in finding the ‘right’ speed.
I think modellers tend to run their trains slower than the prototype in general... Obviously, the distance between towns on the layout is way shorter and if you want to have any kind of operating session going on for any length of time it makes sense!! The other night I was watching a crew switching the local yard... it was pretty late, 10pm or so. The train had just pulled in with a pair of road switchers and they were shoving those cars in the yard tracks at a pretty good clip! The real railroads want to run a profit, so it's certain that the crew does not want to waste time breaking up that train and getting the outbound ready to go for the next shift in the morning. Great info in your video! I think it's good to know how to quantify how fast your trains are running... You can measure the speeds vs throttle settings and make your decision as to what feels like fast road speeds vs slower switching speeds that work on your layout!
An excellent comment mate.Here in the UK, and often at Model Rail we shows, we often see trains running far too quickly. Almost at toylike speeds. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway It's the same here in Canada... I guess it's just a show thing where they want to keep the trains moving for the crowds... I'm sure anybody doing serious ops wouldn't run them that fast otherwise! I know for sure that if I ran my N scale switcher at 40mph on my 8' long layout, it would hit the wall hard in a matter of seconds!!
Don't have any model train set, and not interested to buy one. Not even a train enthousiast. But for some reason it's very relaxing to watch those videos. Maybe it's not my hobby, but I recognize a beautiful scape when I see one. :) I'm looking out to see the progress of your model world.
Charlie thank you, a very imformative video. i will be using the Elgin scale, stop watch and ruler. On one of your earlier videos you gave a top tip of using copper clad board for supporting rails in position whilst transitting form one board to another. Having tried it, its the most effective way of solving the problem, however because my layout is in the garage and subject to changes in humidity, tempetature etc i have gone one step futher and use a screw and copression spring to compensate for movement.
Great stuff Charlie. Reminds me of being in my loft layout with my friend Jason, trying the “two yard test” by measuring the time in seconds it took over two lengths of Peco track on a long straight using what was then considered an almost space-age function of “stopwatch” on my old digital watch and then a calculator to crunch the numbers! 🤣😂😅 He was brilliant at maths so he was like a walking version of that chart! He’d have loved the first clip too as the Class 50s were his favourite 😎 I rather like the look of Bob’s device. Nothing like a cottage industry device! 👍🤓 Have a great weekend 👍🍀🍻
Hi Charley, nice video again. Of course in iTrain you get calibrating the speed of your loco's for free. In calibration mode It automatically runs at multiple dcc speedsteps and thus stores a curve (dcc-step versus speed) for every loco. This is one of the great advantages of controlling your trains from a computer program. Regarda, Rudolf Stammis from the Netherlands
Charlie, Thanks for the great video, full of a lot of information. It was interesting to see the different types of tech to get the speed info, but the old reliable was a stopwatch. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken. PS thanks fo the McKinley Railway info, I will watch for the videos.
The german text in the Speed-Cat PLUS reads "TrainController (a Software for controlling your Layout) is not smart enough, to draw on the potencial of our Speed-Cat PLUS. We recomend to manually syncronize the Data. We are Sorry, but thats not our Fault." And have a great Day, Charlie, Sarah
@@ChadwickModelRailway as the Program comes from a company based in Swabia, they simply saw no need to translate the software. Its a german prejudice about the people from there - they are even proud of it. As I'm from the northern Part of germany, they say we dont talk much, wich is not always the case... In any case, thank you for sharing your Adventures with your railway. Greetings from Germany, Sarah
Thanks again Charlie, really interesting. The methodology and approach is, as usual, just as good as the production and filming. That should keep me occupied with DT100, Stanley tape and stopwatch for the rest of the weekend.
Really informative video as ever, Charlie! Thank you. Great news about McKinley too. Apologies my patronage has slipped lately; just going through a bad patch, but I'll renew asap. Take care man!
Hi Charlie, my old man loves you videos and channel. We use itrain, with that you are able to speed calibration of the loco. You have a section of track split into 3 detection zones, when the loco enters the centre section it measures time taken to complete that distance then works out the loco speed at each speed step forwards and backwards if you want. I adjust the minimum and maximum speed CV so speed step 1 is around 3.5mph then step 126 to the locos top speed, works really well
Charlie, as you would say on your side of the pond, "Brilliant". Thank you for your videos, they really help. Now for your enjoyment, check out the videos from the Pasadena Model Railroad Club in Los Angeles California. It's a Hugh layout that has been evolving for many, many years. I'll be watching for you next video.
Great comparison between the three methods . Very interesting . I thought that my 1978 Hornby Britannia was running slow - but having measured out the 6' -and timed it . it is doing a scale speed of 60mph with a bit left over on the Duette controller. It's the other loco's going too fast that makes it look slow ! The others are old Triangs from the 60's though . Looking forward to the McInley videos as I did wonder why they stopped so abruptly. Best regards -Mike.
Hi Charlie, a very entertaining video which leads me to my choice of the three methods you discussed. Well having Scottish blood flowing through my veins I will have to opt for the tape measure and stop watch. Thanks Greg
Realistic speed control is something I have often thought about so I found it very interesting, Well done, an excellent video. Bob's box of tricks looks interesting and well done with McKinley railway by the way...
Thank you Charlie, another very informative video. I almost bought the DRM speedometer SPC100 yesterday after reading the review in the Hornby Magazine, but after seeing your video I am having second thoughts. I am looking forward to reading the information the the other speedometer. All the best Paul
Hi Charlie- As always very interesting and I have also seen where you measure 4 feet then time the loco to travel this distance , Then divide 207.2727 by the time in seconds you get the MPH figure .I have had a go and it seems to be fairly accurate but of course its down to your own accuracy in pressing stop & Start, But I think most people would be happy with the results and of course its free !! Keep Safe ............Cheers Kev
Great video and something to definitely consider doing to all of our DCC/DC locos! It would be awesome if in the future all locomotives came pre-set to match a velocity in newer style DCC controllers that do not go by numbered increments, but instead by mph / km/h in a digital display, PLUS you can add a group of locos in a consist, either all in front or mid/end remotes and they all run at the same speed! 😃👍
I have been using my ESU ECoS controller since 2014. It has the option of setting the controller for each stored loco to represent its scale speed (either in mph or km./h). All you need to know is the locos scale speed when the controller is set to maximum and then enter that in to the controller. You also have to adjust CV 6 which governs the speed of the loco at the middle speed step so that the loco goes at half the speed that it goes when at full speed when it is set to the middle speed step. I have 150 locos set up that way in my ECoS. Some examples: Class 87-max speed 140 mph, Class 55-max speed 116 mph, Class 40-max speed 100 mph.
Hi Charlie, Just watched the first McKinley, blew my mind but just thought I’d send a pat on the back for filming and editing. When I’ve calmed down I’ll watch another one. 👍
Hi Charlie... Great video as usual liked the idea of checking speed and the Box with Arduino and IR sensors is just up my street, so will def add that to my layout, when I get Shed built, bit on hold at moment even thought B & Q was raided for wood and plasterboard etc, as started with Sciatica in my right leg ...
I think ive a good eye for guessing the scale speeds as i got all of those test runs pretty much bob on......i wonder how many other modellers get their speeds fairly right just by sight and the sound too.......
Great stuff Charlie, thank you. I’m hoping to start a new layout soon, a scale mile oval 69’3” and run trains to real timetables. If two stations are 20 miles apart, it will have to do 20laps. I’ll also need some devices to save me counting laps!
Another option is on of the many variations on the 'speedometer car' theme. Do an image search for 'ho messwagen' for a load of ideas varying from recycled bike computers to wifi connected rolling computers
Really brilliant video Charlie - really interesting and entertaining as ever. Loving seeing the progress of the layout too in previous videos. All the best, Ian.
Hi Charlie, Very informative and great entertainment. I will probably go for the stopwatch/mobile or Bob’s gizmo and that has nothing to do with the fact that I can hear bagpipes in the distance 😂. There is no doubt that scale speed is an essential ingredient of realism on the layout. 👍
Pedantic to the power n. 😂. Superb. Thats the great thing about model train YT. Something to suit every mood. And honestly.. I am in the mood to watch a vid about model train speeds.. Makes a change from sticky up grass and airbrushes. Superb. 😂👍
Thanks Charlie. Another cheap technique to measure speed. Video the train moving across the measurement straight. Then using editing software, identify the frames where the train passing the start and end points. Subtract start time from end time, and you get a measurement down to 1/25th second! (assuming filming at 25 frames/s) When will you start on the 2nd helix?
Very Interesting Charlie. There are quite a few scale speed tables online. I quite like to Count Elephants up to ten, being a photographer Charlie I'm sure you remember basic dark room timing without a clock? I have a list of speeds and time, using the 6' distance I try to eliminate parallax errors and count elephants. whilst not deadly accurate, you have a good reference as we are trying to achieve what looks right. It's surprising how quickly a judgement of the 6' section quickly becomes recognised as the appropriate scale speed one desires.
Once again Charlie another great video except this time you are showing what I’m actually doing and not something I should have done after I saw your videos I’m currently using itrains to set my layout up and have just got to the point of speed setting my locos albeit slowly and badly But as you say “We live and learn” Keep up the Great work looking forward to the McKinley videos when they come out
@@ChadwickModelRailway I’ve gone down the route of Digikeijs as e-link I couldn’t get working then Dynamis but bought the early version without the computer port then Sprog III with jmri too steep a learning curve Digitrax was well out of my budget so settled on Digikeijs with the help from the guys at Dcctrainautomation
Hi Charlie. Found this one very interesting and I'm lucky as my 11 arch viaduct is 6 ft long . I've now listed 30 locos with the controller speed and loco speed great fun....
@@ChadwickModelRailway been hanging for so long for it I know you all have been in lock down as I have family over there fortunately here in Australia we have been lucky
You set a very high standard of presentation and filming Charlie. It just seems to get better. I found this very interesting. I would suppose the longer the length you are measuring, the more accurate the timing would be - 18ft for example.
@@ChadwickModelRailway The DRM kit appears to be measuring only over about 6 inches. That's probably why it was so in accurate. Bob's kit detectors could be hidden under the baseboard, with the LEDs pointing upwards between the rails through small holes in the ballast.
Interesting as ever - love some of your nods and winks. Here's some translation of the Zeller Speed Cat window (curious that the writer used some English words rather than the usual German) Modell Mass-Stab = Model Scale Fortsetzen = Continue funktionell schwabisch genial = functionally Swabian ingenious nur relevant fur TrainController = only relevant for TrainController TrainController ist nicht clever genug, um das Potential unserer Speed-Cat auszuschopfen. Wir raten daher zur manuellen Aktualsierung der Daten. Es liegt nicht an uns, sorry. = TrainController is not clever enough to exploit the potential of our Speed-Cat. = We therefore advise you to update the data manually. It's not up to us, sorry. Daten automatisch in die Zwischenablage kopieren = Automatically copy data to the clipboard Aktuellen Wert in de Zwischenablage schreiben = Write the current value to the clipboard Durschnift der letzen 5 Sekunden in die Zwischenablage schreiben = Write to the clipboard for the last 5 seconds Momentaner inhalt der Zwischenablage = Current content of the clipboard
Thanks Charlie, interesting video as always. I'm looking forward to your forthcoming signalling video. One easy alternative for measuring speed is to use a bicycle computer. These time the wheel revolutions of a pushbike to work out speed. You use a magnet on the wheel of your bike as the sensor and program the speedo with the diameter of the wheel. They are small enough that they fit in an open wagon on 00 scale. If you know the scale diameter of your wagon's wheel and can add a small neodium magnet to the wheel or axle it calculates scale speed. They are normally self contained with batteries that last a long time. The prices vary somewhat but you only need the basic model that records mileage and displays speed.
@@davidstaples8511 Since you want scale speed I set the circumference to the actual circumference of the prototype wheel, in my case a scale 33" diameter wheel has a circumference of 101.16". Most bike computers cover the range or freight vehicle sizes.
The error message on 21:09 says "The train Controller is not clever enough to calculate the potential speed. We guess you need to manually refresh the data. The problem doesn't lie with us, sorry" You have the box ticked to automatically copy the data, so presumably you can paste it into a notepad/excel? Also fun fact... "Lok" is german for train locomotive. You've probably heard before now about the Kriegslok? Quite literally War Locomotive; that was germanys main locomotive class during the second world war. Need any more translations just let me know :) I love the channel and am fluent in English and German.
Ah Charles, Jolly good findings Chap! Might be worth attempting the stop watch method.. it's more accurate than just running them at full chat anyway! Time to get the sprog out and set some CVs ..
A really interesting video, Charlie and some great comments and thoughts coming through. I’m not going to invest in the expensive stuff but might use my stopwatch to see what is right. It’s true that when you film the layout the trains seem to go faster than reality. That seems odd to me. Roy.
You’re dead right Roy. When you get in and close to your trains as they travel along your layout their true scale speed becomes more apparent. Regards Charlie
Scale and compression of distance gives the perception of excessive speed. Your towns may be 10 miles apart in reality but you have a modelled distance of one mile so acceleration from one station means deceleration to the next station before you can reach the scale speed. Try riding a subway or elevated commuter train with a mix of short and long distances between stops.
Hi Charlie great video about spring update and testing train speed I have a hornby class 390 pendolino alstom livery and when you give some wellie it can fly around the curves with the tilting action but like your reverse pullman you have to be careful that it doesn’t take flight so I would love to test how fast she can go in oo scale a few years ago l watched the RUclips channel IC82 hosted by Matt and he used his pendolino on his test I think he used infrared and I am sure he got a reading over 100 mph technology has certainly helped our hobby to make it near the real thing I also checked out mckinnley railway like you said it is an amazing layout I have subscribed to it to get the latest video updates take care Charlie Best wishes Kev Beighton Parkway Sheffield
A terrific comment Kev. It’s great to have you on board and also following the McKinley journey. Take care mate, and don’t go speeding! Regards Charlie
Would be interesting to try a different speed and see if it may be incorrectly reporting, even pushing the coach past the speed seemed high for MPH and may in fact be set for km/h put but misprogramed to show the wrong units.
The one thing to account for also is the human reaction time, in starting and stopping the stopwatch.. there would be a discrepancy even with if you had racing driver like reactions.
You did not mention the other option of pulling a wagon with a speed readout, I intend (one day) to get around to creating one with an Arduino, but if you have pots of money, there are a couple of manufacturers, example ESU 36030 - Test coach EHG 388, that are ready to run, the advantage being that they give lots of other information as well as speed, like gradient, track voltage etc
@@ChadwickModelRailway If you'd like to test one, please get in touch as I make these under the Black Cat Technology brand and sell on eBay. Currently out of stock, but building more soon.
Charlie useful video I Was thinking of purchasing the DCC speed sensor but will save my money for the moment with regards to the Speed Cat system this would need a setting for the wheel diameter as this greatly affects the speed. Still waiting to see your video of the small chains you purchased a few weeks back. Good to hear that there will be some videos coming for McKinley railway
Charlie have given this a bit thought and I think you are right in that the speed is measured at the wheel interface with the track which equates to the speed the wheel,is moving across a surface which then gives mph
Charlie my friend and mentor, Haven't read the comments and this might have been mentioned by another but, could the 97 measurement be in Kilometres?? I have an exercise bike that reads in Km and I have to do the conversion all the time. Maybe the sensor is calibrated in Km. Keep up the GREAT! videos, haven't missed a one . . .
Hi Charlie, really appreciate your videos. Fantastic and interesting as always. I really appreciate your ability to communicate complicated concepts quite simply for those of us starting off in the hobby. The only possible issue I could see with the zeller speed cat would be as the loco isn't under load I assume the values could be skewed by being under load / gradients etc. For example a loco at a speed of 30mph light could equal say 20mph loaded with a typical wagon load. Nevertheless, it's still a very useful tool for calibration. If only decoders came with a speedo cable and it was as simple as putting 50mph into the controller with each speed step being 1mph increments. I'm sure that technology will be with us in 10 years! I think the idea of using a couple of lineside scenery to mount the sensors for speed readouts is a superb one though I assume it could be disrupted with two trains in opposite directions.
Interesting points E 100, however thinking about it, I would probably mount the detectors under the track pointing up to between the sleepers. Regards Charlie
Nice one Charlie. I also tried the Zeller system and found it un-reliable as I'm an N gauge modeller and there's a weight issue with the locos. I'm surprised James didn't let you play with the LS Digital system he has (and I went for in the end) as that is integrated to iTrain (and I think Train Controller) so you can build your speed curves directly into the software. Very much top end of the systems available though in terms of price, but I find it very reliable to use.
Great video, I was very amazed too hear the price of that Speedo to go with the rolling road thouh cause it just looks like an Arduino nano in a box, and the Arduino nano only cost £5-10 depending on where you buy it
Thanks Charlie, a great and informative video as always. Personally I use iTrain and do my speed measurements there. I would be fascinated to learn how the iTrain speed measurements compare with the methods and devices you’ve used in this video.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Actually Charlie, I’ve never thought to test the accuracy of iTrain by using the good old stopwatch, there’s food for thought ! I think I might just have a go with a couple of my trains - just to be sure !
The top button on the KFP-Zeller says the equivalent of "Display the live reading" the second button option says "Display the average of the last 5 seconds"
Charlie, got to admire your bravery in sending a £600 train towards the edge of a cliff! Will revisit my stopwatch timings and over six feet with the Elgin chart rather than the length of my circuit as by my complicated (and probably incorrect calculations) my old Lima Western with five mk 1s flat out was clocked at a scale 126mph!
Hi Charlie. A very informative video. I wonder if the £10 speedo will be mass produced for the average model railway enthusiast. Glad to hear that McKinley Railway will be back on line shortly, as I thought we had lost it for good. Maybe you two could merge and become 'Chadwick & McKinley's Model Railways Incorporated'. Just a thought. 🤔
Very interesting video, Charlie. So much trickery going on! I'm fortunate enough to have a great ear and memory for sound, so rely on the good old "Clickety-clack" method of listening to the real thing going over a track join and matching the sound of the model. Of course you're buggered if the train is only doing 25 is a 30mph zone, but it's free! Setting up line side telephone poles is also a great method, exactly the same as your dot and stop watch method, just hidden among the scenery. Of course that can be used with things such as overhead masts etc. And did you manage to solve the derailing Pullman helix mystery? Cheers. Mike.
Regarding the drM Speedometer: The issue with the incorrect measurement was only in the first release. Since then, this has been resolved, the manufacturer told me when I enquired. In the last two years, it has only been available in the UK from Tramfabriek. Oh, and it has way more scales now, which are separated by country, so the scale is correct for the country. You know, N and O gauge are different in the UK, rest of Europe and Japan for example.
@@ChadwickModelRailway I agree. Luckily, they’ve been very good listeners and implemented all the feedback I gave them. It has become a much better product now. I can send you a new one to re-test, if you like.
Charlie, I have wondered about putting a loop onto the end of your two levels, so you can run trains continuously, before you install the second helix. From McKinley, this would be called a "Shoe Fly". (Wonder where that name came from?) I can see that when you are laying main line track, this would be an impediment, but when you are doing scenery, the high level station, the branch line, etc, it would still allow you to run trains and get back to what the hobby is all about!
@@ChadwickModelRailway International Dictionary of English. Shoefly noun (Railroading), Cant, U. S. A contrivance for throwing the track temporarily to one side for convenience in filling washouts or effecting other repairs.
I found the speed cat in N gauge not so reliable (lighter locomotives), in the end with went with the RZtec Speebox on a separate piece of track linked into iTrains, its worth checking out, but not cheap.
Hi Charlie. Just letting anyone who has looked at building the speedometer with the Arduino unit that Bob provided instructions for, that he has now updated the circuit diagram to correctly connect the data and clock pins. Obviously, only those that have tried it before today will need to look at the changes. Under the old diagram the display unit would not work at all but simply switching the 2 wires connected to A4 and A5 solves it. As I say though, the drawing is now correct anyway. I have also sourced a 7 segment display at only £6.99 (post free) which works perfectly and reduced the total cost to about £12.
Thanks Alan, that’s great news.
Regards Charlie.
3 years late to the party on this one. I built Bob's Speedometer, and it works great. I altered the sketch so that it would read in kph instead of mph. The next step is to build it into the layout. Thanks for posting this content. I'm finding new ideas and inspiration from gents like yourself every day. 👍
That’s great news, Shane, and good luck with your projects. Regards, Charlie.
My Friday evening is set... finished work? Yes. Made a fresh coffee and got a couple of Jaffa Cakes? Yes. Then it’s time to sit back, relax and be educated by the Blue Peter of model railways!! Educated, entertained and ready to face the weekend and whatever the weather throws at us! Thank you once again Charlie. Well done as ever!
Only a couple of Jaffa Cakes ?
Jaffa Cakes I’m a Custard Tart man myself
@@dangerous4948 my Friday treat! Custard creams or Bourbons during the working week!
Steady on the calories Bryan.
@@ChadwickModelRailway: does this make you a slave driver then, Charlie? 🤔
A £600 Pullman doing 70 mph around the helix - you're a brave man Charlie 😁
This speed test just goes to spectacularly show that you don't always get what you pay for.
What I really like about your presentations, your reaction to problems and solution to challenges is that you do it all with an everyman demeanour. And I'm not even a model railway enthusiast. I love steam trains and I have some oo gauge models of my favourites under glass, but I am not an enthusiast. I used to love model making though, (when I was young enough to do it properly), and so I am appreciative and amazed at the detail that you and other railway modellers go into and achieve. It is astonishing. What got me actually watching these videos from you and others is something that happened to me almost two years ago.
On a more personal note Charlie,
I had your video pop up in a recommendation at the start of the Covid pandemic, and it hit the news and was getting a lot worse so I planned to finish work to self-isolate to keep safe. By the time I managed to do that it was too late, I had contracted it and spent the next four weeks on my settee, being hardly able to move due to lack of breath, I had never been so ill, or scared in my 59 years to that point. Anyway, I only had my Bluray Player and Humax boxes, no SKY, no smart TV and so I watched RUclips, trying to find long videos to pass the time. For four weeks, until the illness broke and I began to slowly recover, the channels I found on YT kept me going of which yours was one. I now want to take this opportunity to thank you, now that I have a Mini PC connected to the TV I can finally log into Google and YT, like, leave comments and subscribe, something I couldn't do on the Bluray player. I have finally subscribed to your channel (as well as all the others I used to watch), and I've also told them the same background and thanked them.
Thank you.
Hi Jeff,
What a heart warming comment. I'm so pleased that the channel has brought you some comfort and hopefully you are now fully recovered.
Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie,
A branch line person myself so will need a 25mph scale speed... very helpful indeed!
Cameron
Thanks Cameron, regards Charlie
Great head-to-head comparison. Thank you, Charlie. The arduino systems (Bob's) were popular on RUclips a couple years back. In the US the closest version to the commercial one is one from TCS, but I cannot speak to its accuracy. Thanks again.
Thanks Ron, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. I just need to source a UK supplier. Regards Charlie
Mk mk i8 in mo om
The 50 and eight coaches was always a spritely run down from Waterloo to Exeter, sadly the singling past Salisbury meant the old girls couldn't get up to speed and the passing loop at Tisbury could end up with the loco waiting on a train to pass for quite some minutes despite there being a second passing loop at Gillingham that is never utilised. In the summer the 50's suffered sitting at idle in the summer heat and the passengers too because most times the heating was always (prob on purpose) stuck on the old MK1 stock.
But happy days ....... hopefully!
Speed ... so exciting ... luckily no trains or locomotives got hurt or ruined during this indepth speed testing ... good explanation Charlie ... and again, love that touch of humor in the footage
What a heart warming comment Mark. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Bob's kit looks impressive for the costs. Unusual but interesting project to watch. Always a pleasure to watch and listen with delight at your sense of humour, can't wait for the next video..
Thanks Barry, it’s great to have you on board.
Good Lord Charlie! In all my years NEVER have thought about the accuracy of my train speeds. I just took for granted the speed stepping of the DC Transformer & later the DCC Controller. This episode had me focused to every word you said. As well as every image shot. As my line is down I am first going to take this video around to my four RxR Clubs to convince them to review their line speeds. FANTASTIC JOB CHUM.
~Jim
What a heartwarming comment Jim. You’re too kind, regards Charlie
Directly after your 'So exciting.' comment I got an ad that said 'Sharon is searching for something safer.' :-)
Well there is an odd coincidence. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie..
Glad you got the cat going...
Thanks for the mention..
P.s I was in A and H models today on my way back from Reading to Manchester...I met a customer in the shop by chance and we were talking about your channel.....
Take care...jim
Hi Jim, yes your Speed-Cat info was most useful. Hopefully a positive conversation regarding the channel (hopefully). Regards Charlie.
There seems no end to the creative ways you can keep us on our toes! Great information, Charlie. Looking forward the signals lesson! Thanks!
What a heartwarming comment Pat.
I’m so pleased that you enjoy the channel mate. Regards Charlie.
I do see a problem with the drM sensor that you tried that could give rise to the speed reporting errors that you saw. The infra-red emitters and sensors used are bare devices and they will have a certain angle of dispersion and sensitivity respectively - commonly up to around 30 degrees off-axis. That is great for devices like remote controls, but in this case it can result in a detection point that is not necessarily on-axis for both ends of the detector. That could mean that the actual detection points are closer or further apart than the sensors on the circuit board. Therefore, when measuring at a distance from the track, that difference in distance between detection points could be a significant fraction of the distance between the two sensors on the circuit board. There are two ways to try to reduce this source of error. 1) Place the board very close to the train being detected (a few mm only if possible). This minimises the variations caused by the dispersion of the IR beams; 2) use some tubes which are opaque to infra-red to block off-axis transmission and detection, those tubes being just large enough to go over the LED bodies and then to effectively "pipe" the infra-red to and from the trains location. A third option would be for the designers to significantly increase the distance between the sensors so that dispersion errors become a much smaller fraction of that distance. While the solution that they have come up with is inexpensive, industrial infra-red detector devices often include moulded bodies to ensure a very small detection error for these kinds of reasons. (Sorry for the long comment! Electronics guy here... :) )
Thanks GMG, the issue might be more serious than we suspected. All of these items have been recalled as others have exactly the same speed reading!
Regards Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Interesting, and good to know. Thanks. Perhaps they can make the scale setting sticky as well, so that you don't have to re-enter it each time. Also more scales would be nice.
97km/h is 60mph have they just got the units wrong
I find the best way to gauge speed is to briefly film the train running at what you think is the right speed … it will invariably seem to be running too fast … adjust accordingly…. Size of layout plus busyness of scenery will also play a part in finding the ‘right’ speed.
An excellent point Paul, if it looks right it is right.
I think modellers tend to run their trains slower than the prototype in general... Obviously, the distance between towns on the layout is way shorter and if you want to have any kind of operating session going on for any length of time it makes sense!! The other night I was watching a crew switching the local yard... it was pretty late, 10pm or so. The train had just pulled in with a pair of road switchers and they were shoving those cars in the yard tracks at a pretty good clip! The real railroads want to run a profit, so it's certain that the crew does not want to waste time breaking up that train and getting the outbound ready to go for the next shift in the morning.
Great info in your video! I think it's good to know how to quantify how fast your trains are running... You can measure the speeds vs throttle settings and make your decision as to what feels like fast road speeds vs slower switching speeds that work on your layout!
An excellent comment mate.Here in the UK, and often at Model Rail we shows, we often see trains running far too quickly. Almost at toylike speeds. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway It's the same here in Canada... I guess it's just a show thing where they want to keep the trains moving for the crowds... I'm sure anybody doing serious ops wouldn't run them that fast otherwise! I know for sure that if I ran my N scale switcher at 40mph on my 8' long layout, it would hit the wall hard in a matter of seconds!!
Don't have any model train set, and not interested to buy one. Not even a train enthousiast.
But for some reason it's very relaxing to watch those videos.
Maybe it's not my hobby, but I recognize a beautiful scape when I see one. :)
I'm looking out to see the progress of your model world.
Thanks JD, it’s great to have you onboard.
I am pleased that McKinley is back - and I shall look forward to your signals episode!
Thanks James, the first McKinley one comes out at 12 o’clock today. Regards Charlie
Charlie thank you, a very imformative video. i will be using the Elgin scale, stop watch and ruler. On one of your earlier videos you gave a top tip of using copper clad board for supporting rails in position whilst transitting form one board to another. Having tried it, its the most effective way of solving the problem, however because my layout is in the garage and subject to changes in humidity, tempetature etc i have gone one step futher and use a screw and copression spring to compensate for movement.
Sounds like a sensible option Philip.
Thanks Charlie, great Video, I fancy the Stop Watch System is going to tick most Modeller’s Boxes.
A great comment Peter.😜
Great stuff Charlie. Reminds me of being in my loft layout with my friend Jason, trying the “two yard test” by measuring the time in seconds it took over two lengths of Peco track on a long straight using what was then considered an almost space-age function of “stopwatch” on my old digital watch and then a calculator to crunch the numbers! 🤣😂😅 He was brilliant at maths so he was like a walking version of that chart! He’d have loved the first clip too as the Class 50s were his favourite 😎
I rather like the look of Bob’s device. Nothing like a cottage industry device! 👍🤓
Have a great weekend 👍🍀🍻
What a heartwarming comment Tim, regards Charlie
Sounds like there's a good market for the BOB Detector!
Perhaps mate.
Hi Charley, nice video again.
Of course in iTrain you get calibrating the speed of your loco's for free. In calibration mode It automatically runs at multiple dcc speedsteps and thus stores a curve (dcc-step versus speed) for every loco. This is one of the great advantages of controlling your trains from a computer program.
Regarda, Rudolf Stammis from the Netherlands
Yes iTrain really is a useful beast Rudolf. Thanks
Professor Charlie as usual - a hive of information, stay healthy
Thanks David and do stay safe yourself mate. Regards Charlie
Interesting video. Great to here my local club getting a mention. Haven't seen the lads at Elgin for a while . Its May and it is snowing outside.!
Please pass on my gratitude David.
Charlie, Thanks for the great video, full of a lot of information. It was interesting to see the different types of tech to get the speed info, but the old reliable was a stopwatch. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken. PS thanks fo the McKinley Railway info, I will watch for the videos.
Thanks Ken, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it buddy.
The german text in the Speed-Cat PLUS reads "TrainController (a Software for controlling your Layout) is not smart enough, to draw on the potencial of our Speed-Cat PLUS. We recomend to manually syncronize the Data. We are Sorry, but thats not our Fault."
And have a great Day, Charlie,
Sarah
Thanks Sarah, that's most helpful.
@@ChadwickModelRailway as the Program comes from a company based in Swabia, they simply saw no need to translate the software.
Its a german prejudice about the people from there - they are even proud of it. As I'm from the northern Part of germany, they say we dont talk much, wich is not always the case...
In any case, thank you for sharing your Adventures with your railway.
Greetings from Germany,
Sarah
Thanks again Charlie, really interesting. The methodology and approach is, as usual, just as good as the production and filming. That should keep me occupied with DT100, Stanley tape and stopwatch for the rest of the weekend.
Thanks Brian, regards Charlie.
Well, that was fun. Gonna give it a go...stopwatch and chart that is. Thanks Charlie!
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting M56. Regards Charlie
It’s a very interesting system that you’re using at the moment. It’s interesting to see the two different systems or even three!!
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting.
I wake up from nightshift and there’s a new video from Charlie. Big smiles.😃 (I thoroughly enjoyed it, too.)
You’re too kind Simon.
Another great video and just in time for what we are doing now! Thank you, Professor Charlie!
Thanks Craig, it’s great that the timing is useful. Regards Charlie.
Really informative video as ever, Charlie! Thank you. Great news about McKinley too. Apologies my patronage has slipped lately; just going through a bad patch, but I'll renew asap. Take care man!
I’m so pleased that you’re staying tuned Simon. Good luck and stay safe mate.
Hi Charlie, my old man loves you videos and channel. We use itrain, with that you are able to speed calibration of the loco. You have a section of track split into 3 detection zones, when the loco enters the centre section it measures time taken to complete that distance then works out the loco speed at each speed step forwards and backwards if you want. I adjust the minimum and maximum speed CV so speed step 1 is around 3.5mph then step 126 to the locos top speed, works really well
That sounds very similar to the train controller process Tom, regards Charlie
Charlie, as you would say on your side of the pond, "Brilliant". Thank you for your videos, they really help. Now for your enjoyment, check out the videos from the Pasadena Model Railroad Club in Los Angeles California. It's a Hugh layout that has been evolving for many, many years.
I'll be watching for you next video.
Thanks GC, and I will certainly check it out.
Great comparison between the three methods . Very interesting . I thought that my 1978 Hornby Britannia was running slow - but having measured out the 6' -and timed it . it is doing a scale speed of 60mph with a bit left over on the Duette controller. It's the other loco's going too fast that makes it look slow ! The others are old Triangs from the 60's though . Looking forward to the McInley videos as I did wonder why they stopped so abruptly. Best regards -Mike.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Mike.
Hi Charlie, a very entertaining video which leads me to my choice of the three methods you discussed. Well having Scottish blood flowing through my veins I will have to opt for the tape measure and stop watch. Thanks Greg
I’m so pleased that your Scottish heritage enjoyed it Greg.
Realistic speed control is something I have often thought about so I found it very interesting,
Well done, an excellent video.
Bob's box of tricks looks interesting and well done with McKinley railway by the way...
What a heartwarming comment John. Regards Charlie.
Thank you Charlie, another very informative video. I almost bought the DRM speedometer SPC100 yesterday after reading the review in the Hornby Magazine, but after seeing your video I am having second thoughts. I am looking forward to reading the information the the other speedometer.
All the best Paul
Thanks Paul, which issue had the article?
@@ChadwickModelRailway The review is in the June 2021 issue of Hornby Magazine, page 94
Paul
Thanks Paul, I’m on the case!
Hi Charlie- As always very interesting and I have also seen where you measure 4 feet then time the loco to travel this distance , Then divide 207.2727 by the time in seconds you get the MPH figure .I have had a go and it seems to be fairly accurate but of course its down to your own accuracy in pressing stop & Start, But I think most people would be happy with the results and of course its free !!
Keep Safe ............Cheers Kev
It’s a really good free tool Kev. Regards Charlie
Another wonderful video. Thank you Charlie. You keep inspiring me with my own layout and I always look forwards to your releases.
What a heart warming comment Rail Guy. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
Great video and something to definitely consider doing to all of our DCC/DC locos! It would be awesome if in the future all locomotives came pre-set to match a velocity in newer style DCC controllers that do not go by numbered increments, but instead by mph / km/h in a digital display, PLUS you can add a group of locos in a consist, either all in front or mid/end remotes and they all run at the same speed! 😃👍
An excellent point PL, however I don’t think the technology is with us yet on this one.
I have been using my ESU ECoS controller since 2014. It has the option of setting the controller for each stored loco to represent its scale speed (either in mph or km./h). All you need to know is the locos scale speed when the controller is set to maximum and then enter that in to the controller. You also have to adjust CV 6 which governs the speed of the loco at the middle speed step so that the loco goes at half the speed that it goes when at full speed when it is set to the middle speed step.
I have 150 locos set up that way in my ECoS. Some examples: Class 87-max speed 140 mph, Class 55-max speed 116 mph, Class 40-max speed 100 mph.
@@kiwitrainguy Nice! Thanks for the info, will look into it! Cheers!👍
Hi Charlie,
Just watched the first McKinley, blew my mind but just thought I’d send a pat on the back for filming and editing. When I’ve calmed down I’ll watch another one. 👍
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed Gordon, it really is a beast!
Hi Charlie... Great video as usual liked the idea of checking speed and the Box with Arduino and IR sensors is just up my street, so will def add that to my layout, when I get Shed built, bit on hold at moment even thought B & Q was raided for wood and plasterboard etc, as started with Sciatica in my right leg ...
Go for it John but go easy on the leg.
I think ive a good eye for guessing the scale speeds as i got all of those test runs pretty much bob on......i wonder how many other modellers get their speeds fairly right just by sight and the sound too.......
I have my doubts with older locos mate.
Great stuff Charlie, thank you. I’m hoping to start a new layout soon, a scale mile oval 69’3” and run trains to real timetables. If two stations are 20 miles apart, it will have to do 20laps. I’ll also need some devices to save me counting laps!
Blimey JP, That's a lot of engine hours. Regards Charlie
Another option is on of the many variations on the 'speedometer car' theme. Do an image search for 'ho messwagen' for a load of ideas varying from recycled bike computers to wifi connected rolling computers
Now there is something I have never thought about. Regards Charlie
Really brilliant video Charlie - really interesting and entertaining as ever. Loving seeing the progress of the layout too in previous videos. All the best, Ian.
Thanks Ian, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.
@@ChadwickModelRailway entirely random question but can you remind me what you discovered to clean your track with instead of IPA?
I now use Inox Ian, from DCC Train Automation. Not for use with traction tyres.
@@ChadwickModelRailway thank you. 👍
A new Charlie video! I'm more excited about this than I feel I ought to be...
Go easy KP, perhaps we all need to get out a little more! Regards Charlie
great video Charlie, look forward to the info on the home made kit.
Thanks Rob, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie,
Very informative and great entertainment. I will probably go for the stopwatch/mobile or Bob’s gizmo and that has nothing to do with the fact that I can hear bagpipes in the distance 😂. There is no doubt that scale speed is an essential ingredient of realism on the layout. 👍
I’m so pleased that you found it useful GT.
Great, roll on some weekend speed calculations! Thanks Charlie :)
I’m so pleased that you found it useful GW.
Stop watch and tape measure looks good to me 👍
It gets my vote Alan.
Pedantic to the power n. 😂. Superb. Thats the great thing about model train YT. Something to suit every mood. And honestly.. I am in the mood to watch a vid about model train speeds.. Makes a change from sticky up grass and airbrushes. Superb. 😂👍
I think what sets you apart Charlie.. is you involve the viewers. Ppl send you stuff and you feature it.
What a charming comment Alan. You’re too kind, regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway It was an honest comment Charlie. I am an engineer, and this vid took me back to ticker tape experiments in physics class. 😂👍
Very interesting video. And good news about McKinley railways ,
Yes it’s such good news that they are once more able to record their progress.
Another great video, Charlie! Please keep up the good work!
Thanks Michael, it’s great to have you onboard mate.
Thanks Charlie. Another cheap technique to measure speed. Video the train moving across the measurement straight. Then using editing software, identify the frames where the train passing the start and end points. Subtract start time from end time, and you get a measurement down to 1/25th second! (assuming filming at 25 frames/s)
When will you start on the 2nd helix?
Another interesting alternative Gavin.
The second helix is still a way off, probably until the autumn.
Great video again Charlie. They have got me through lockdown thanks
I’m so pleased that you found the videos useful Jeff. Regards Charlie
Very Interesting Charlie. There are quite a few scale speed tables online. I quite like to Count Elephants up to ten, being a photographer Charlie I'm sure you remember basic dark room timing without a clock? I have a list of speeds and time, using the 6' distance I try to eliminate parallax errors and count elephants. whilst not deadly accurate, you have a good reference as we are trying to achieve what looks right. It's surprising how quickly a judgement of the 6' section quickly becomes recognised as the appropriate scale speed one desires.
Yes we certainly singing from the same song sheet on this one mate. Regards Charlie
Once again Charlie another great video except this time you are showing what I’m actually doing and not something I should have done after I saw your videos
I’m currently using itrains to set my layout up and have just got to the point of speed setting my locos albeit slowly and badly
But as you say “We live and learn”
Keep up the Great work looking forward to the McKinley videos when they come out
Good luck with the Itrain dangerous. It’s something that I have yet to look into. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I’ve gone down the route of Digikeijs as e-link I couldn’t get working then Dynamis but bought the early version without the computer port then Sprog III with jmri too steep a learning curve Digitrax was well out of my budget so settled on Digikeijs with the help from the guys at Dcctrainautomation
Always very interesting your video. Thanks Mr. Charlie
You’re most welcome Michele.
Hi Charlie. Found this one very interesting and I'm lucky as my 11 arch viaduct is 6 ft long . I've now listed 30 locos with the controller speed and loco speed great fun....
I’m so pleased that you found it useful Anthony.
Awesome Charlie oh can't wait to see progress of McKinley
The first video is out at noon today Adam. I do hope that you enjoy it.
@@ChadwickModelRailway been hanging for so long for it I know you all have been in lock down as I have family over there fortunately here in Australia we have been lucky
You set a very high standard of presentation and filming Charlie. It just seems to get better. I found this very interesting. I would suppose the longer the length you are measuring, the more accurate the timing would be - 18ft for example.
Yes the accuracy certainly increases over distance.
@@ChadwickModelRailway The DRM kit appears to be measuring only over about 6 inches. That's probably why it was so in accurate. Bob's kit detectors could be hidden under the baseboard, with the LEDs pointing upwards between the rails through small holes in the ballast.
Interesting as ever - love some of your nods and winks.
Here's some translation of the Zeller Speed Cat window (curious that the writer used some English words rather than the usual German)
Modell Mass-Stab
= Model Scale
Fortsetzen
= Continue
funktionell schwabisch genial
= functionally Swabian ingenious
nur relevant fur TrainController
= only relevant for TrainController
TrainController ist nicht clever genug, um das Potential unserer Speed-Cat auszuschopfen.
Wir raten daher zur manuellen Aktualsierung der Daten. Es liegt nicht an uns, sorry.
= TrainController is not clever enough to exploit the potential of our Speed-Cat.
= We therefore advise you to update the data manually. It's not up to us, sorry.
Daten automatisch in die Zwischenablage kopieren
= Automatically copy data to the clipboard
Aktuellen Wert in de Zwischenablage schreiben
= Write the current value to the clipboard
Durschnift der letzen 5 Sekunden in die Zwischenablage schreiben
= Write to the clipboard for the last 5 seconds
Momentaner inhalt der Zwischenablage
= Current content of the clipboard
Are there no limits to your talents Lee?
Most useful mate, regards Charlie
PS. Can you email me the translation?
@@ChadwickModelRailway you can use translate.google.com too :)
One little thing: „Write the average of the last 5 seconds to the clipboard“.
Another great informative video, Charlie! Thanks for the pointer to McKinley Railway, I've subbed and will check out the videos there.
Thanks Roy, I do hope that you enjoy McKinley, their latest video came out today. Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie, interesting video as always. I'm looking forward to your forthcoming signalling video. One easy alternative for measuring speed is to use a bicycle computer. These time the wheel revolutions of a pushbike to work out speed. You use a magnet on the wheel of your bike as the sensor and program the speedo with the diameter of the wheel. They are small enough that they fit in an open wagon on 00 scale. If you know the scale diameter of your wagon's wheel and can add a small neodium magnet to the wheel or axle it calculates scale speed. They are normally self contained with batteries that last a long time. The prices vary somewhat but you only need the basic model that records mileage and displays speed.
An interesting comment Alan,
regards Charlie.
I suggest that you choose your bike computer carefully - none of mine will allow calibration of such a small wheel.
@@davidstaples8511 Since you want scale speed I set the circumference to the actual circumference of the prototype wheel, in my case a scale 33" diameter wheel has a circumference of 101.16". Most bike computers cover the range or freight vehicle sizes.
Superb vid Charlie and excellent explanation of what you were doing.
Thanks Clive I’m so pleased that you found it interesting.
Great video as usual. You can also use the block detection on your layout to also measure the speed using some well known free software.
Thanks Alec, a good point.
No more freebies from Train Automation, Charlie! :)
I’ll cope, regards Charlie 😢
The other system I've seen is the Accutrack II. Cost $79.99. It has a setting for 00 gauge, but I can't find any suppliers in the UK.
An interesting tip mate. Regards Charlie
The error message on 21:09 says "The train Controller is not clever enough to calculate the potential speed. We guess you need to manually refresh the data. The problem doesn't lie with us, sorry"
You have the box ticked to automatically copy the data, so presumably you can paste it into a notepad/excel?
Also fun fact... "Lok" is german for train locomotive. You've probably heard before now about the Kriegslok? Quite literally War Locomotive; that was germanys main locomotive class during the second world war.
Need any more translations just let me know :) I love the channel and am fluent in English and German.
Great info Andrew and I’m most grateful. Regards Charlie
Ah Charles, Jolly good findings Chap!
Might be worth attempting the stop watch method.. it's more accurate than just running them at full chat anyway!
Time to get the sprog out and set some CVs ..
Iron Horse Heathen, I'm so pleased that you found the video useful.
Regards Charlie
A really interesting video, Charlie and some great comments and thoughts coming through. I’m not going to invest in the expensive stuff but might use my stopwatch to see what is right. It’s true that when you film the layout the trains seem to go faster than reality. That seems odd to me. Roy.
You’re dead right Roy. When you get in and close to your trains as they travel along your layout their true scale speed becomes more apparent. Regards Charlie
Scale and compression of distance gives the perception of excessive speed. Your towns may be 10 miles apart in reality but you have a modelled distance of one mile so acceleration from one station means deceleration to the next station before you can reach the scale speed. Try riding a subway or elevated commuter train with a mix of short and long distances between stops.
Hi Charlie great video about spring update and testing train speed I have a hornby class 390 pendolino alstom livery and when you give some wellie it can fly around the curves with the tilting action but like your reverse pullman you have to be careful that it doesn’t take flight so I would love to test how fast she can go in oo scale a few years ago l watched the RUclips channel IC82 hosted by Matt and he used his pendolino on his test I think he used infrared and I am sure he got a reading over 100 mph technology has certainly helped our hobby to make it near the real thing I also checked out mckinnley railway like you said it is an amazing layout I have subscribed to it to get the latest video updates take care Charlie
Best wishes
Kev Beighton Parkway Sheffield
A terrific comment Kev. It’s great to have you on board and also following the McKinley journey. Take care mate, and don’t go speeding! Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Could the sensor that read 97mph actually be calibrated in kilometres as 97 kph = 60 mph
Sorry Ian but no, it definitely says MPH.
Would be interesting to try a different speed and see if it may be incorrectly reporting, even pushing the coach past the speed seemed high for MPH and may in fact be set for km/h put but misprogramed to show the wrong units.
The one thing to account for also is the human reaction time, in starting and stopping the stopwatch.. there would be a discrepancy even with if you had racing driver like reactions.
I agree but the greater the distance, the less the discrepancy.
Another great informative video Charlie, although I must say I like your how to videos the best. Keep up the great work
It’s a difficult one Alan. Some people just want to see trains run, others like you, a more in-depth how to. It’s a difficult juggle. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Not a criticism Charlie, I did enjoy it :)
Thanks Alan
You did not mention the other option of pulling a wagon with a speed readout, I intend (one day) to get around to creating one with an Arduino, but if you have pots of money, there are a couple of manufacturers, example ESU 36030 - Test coach EHG 388, that are ready to run, the advantage being that they give lots of other information as well as speed, like gradient, track voltage etc
An interesting comment, a friend of mine has a scratch built speed coach which I may investigate. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway If you'd like to test one, please get in touch as I make these under the Black Cat Technology brand and sell on eBay. Currently out of stock, but building more soon.
Please let me know by email, when you have them back in stock please Stephen. Regards Charlie
Great video Charlie and some food for thought cheers.
Thanks MS, regards Charlie.
Charlie useful video I Was thinking of purchasing the DCC speed sensor but will save my money for the moment with regards to the Speed Cat system this would need a setting for the wheel diameter as this greatly affects the speed. Still waiting to see your video of the small chains you purchased a few weeks back. Good to hear that there will be some videos coming for McKinley railway
Hi Gary I’m not too sure that you’re right about the wheel diameter. Larger wheels would surely just turn at a slower rate.
Charlie have given this a bit thought and I think you are right in that the speed is measured at the wheel interface with the track which equates to the speed the wheel,is moving across a surface which then gives mph
Great video again Charlie some good information on products
Thanks Gary, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.
Charlie my friend and mentor,
Haven't read the comments and this might have been mentioned by another but, could the 97 measurement be in Kilometres?? I have an exercise bike that reads in Km and I have to do the conversion all the time. Maybe the sensor is calibrated in Km. Keep up the GREAT! videos, haven't missed a one . . .
Sorry PW, but it is definitely in mph. Cutting to the chase, the unit doesn’t work properly. Regards Charlie
Thank you very much for clearly explaining this...
You’re most welcome Paul.
I have an ESU 36030 Coach with speed display but as it is an HO model it needs an adjustment to get OO speeds..
I haven’t seen one, only the Pico version.
Hi Charlie, really appreciate your videos. Fantastic and interesting as always. I really appreciate your ability to communicate complicated concepts quite simply for those of us starting off in the hobby.
The only possible issue I could see with the zeller speed cat would be as the loco isn't under load I assume the values could be skewed by being under load / gradients etc. For example a loco at a speed of 30mph light could equal say 20mph loaded with a typical wagon load. Nevertheless, it's still a very useful tool for calibration.
If only decoders came with a speedo cable and it was as simple as putting 50mph into the controller with each speed step being 1mph increments. I'm sure that technology will be with us in 10 years!
I think the idea of using a couple of lineside scenery to mount the sensors for speed readouts is a superb one though I assume it could be disrupted with two trains in opposite directions.
Interesting points E 100, however thinking about it, I would probably mount the detectors under the track pointing up to between the sleepers. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway problem solved
Nice one Charlie. I also tried the Zeller system and found it un-reliable as I'm an N gauge modeller and there's a weight issue with the locos. I'm surprised James didn't let you play with the LS Digital system he has (and I went for in the end) as that is integrated to iTrain (and I think Train Controller) so you can build your speed curves directly into the software. Very much top end of the systems available though in terms of price, but I find it very reliable to use.
Clearly an expensive but reliable choice Stuart. I do hope it proves it’s worth mate, regards Charlie
Great video, I was very amazed too hear the price of that Speedo to go with the rolling road thouh cause it just looks like an Arduino nano in a box, and the Arduino nano only cost £5-10 depending on where you buy it
It’s shocking how we can be ripped off so easily. Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie, a great and informative video as always. Personally I use iTrain and do my speed measurements there. I would be fascinated to learn how the iTrain speed measurements compare with the methods and devices you’ve used in this video.
I still think that the stopwatch is best Bryan! Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Actually Charlie, I’ve never thought to test the accuracy of iTrain by using the good old stopwatch, there’s food for thought ! I think I might just have a go with a couple of my trains - just to be sure !
CHARLEY MY FRIEND WE ALWAYS KNOW WHAT WE WILL WATCHING ON YOUR VIODEOS ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS CHECK OUT YOUR SHIRT
Hi GM, yes I’m that predictable, regards Charlie
The top button on the KFP-Zeller says the equivalent of "Display the live reading" the second button option says "Display the average of the last 5 seconds"
Thanks Andrew, much appreciated
Another great video Charlie well done
Thanks John it’s great to have you on board mate.
Now seems like a good time to learn German haha
Great video, Charlie. Always a pleasure to watch your videos
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it, great logo by the way.
@@ChadwickModelRailway thank you so much! My main focus is weathering and graffiti so a spray can seemed like a good fit 😆
Charlie, got to admire your bravery in sending a £600 train towards the edge of a cliff! Will revisit my stopwatch timings and over six feet with the Elgin chart rather than the length of my circuit as by my complicated (and probably incorrect calculations) my old Lima Western with five mk 1s flat out was clocked at a scale 126mph!
I was very thankful he didn't have a stay alive in there haha
My blood pressure can’t take all this stress!
@@ChadwickModelRailway haha - all in the name of entertainment of course...
Charlie you have become too good with your video editing, I really miss "well that will be the phone then". Thank you for another interesting video.
Thanks Onky, rest assured that I do not edit out the calls! Perhaps they are back at work!
Hi Charlie.
A very informative video. I wonder if the £10 speedo will be mass produced for the average model railway enthusiast. Glad to hear that McKinley Railway will be back on line shortly, as I thought we had lost it for good. Maybe you two could merge and become 'Chadwick & McKinley's Model Railways Incorporated'. Just a thought. 🤔
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed Paul.
Very interesting video, Charlie. So much trickery going on! I'm fortunate enough to have a great ear and memory for sound, so rely on the good old "Clickety-clack" method of listening to the real thing going over a track join and matching the sound of the model. Of course you're buggered if the train is only doing 25 is a 30mph zone, but it's free!
Setting up line side telephone poles is also a great method, exactly the same as your dot and stop watch method, just hidden among the scenery. Of course that can be used with things such as overhead masts etc.
And did you manage to solve the derailing Pullman helix mystery?
Cheers. Mike.
Great comment Mike.
I can’t get the Pullman to detail again!
😜
Regarding the drM Speedometer: The issue with the incorrect measurement was only in the first release. Since then, this has been resolved, the manufacturer told me when I enquired. In the last two years, it has only been available in the UK from Tramfabriek. Oh, and it has way more scales now, which are separated by country, so the scale is correct for the country. You know, N and O gauge are different in the UK, rest of Europe and Japan for example.
It’s such a shame they released it without adequate testing. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I agree. Luckily, they’ve been very good listeners and implemented all the feedback I gave them. It has become a much better product now. I can send you a new one to re-test, if you like.
Yes by all means, just send it to DCC Train Automation for the attention of Charlie Bishop. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, I have wondered about putting a loop onto the end of your two levels, so you can run trains continuously, before you install the second helix.
From McKinley, this would be called a "Shoe Fly". (Wonder where that name came from?)
I can see that when you are laying main line track, this would be an impediment, but when you are doing scenery, the high level station, the branch line, etc, it would still allow you to run trains and get back to what the hobby is all about!
It’s funny Tom but that was a decision made a couple of week’s ago from my friendly track planner, Lee.
@@ChadwickModelRailway
International Dictionary of English.
Shoefly
noun (Railroading), Cant, U. S. A contrivance for throwing the track temporarily to one side for convenience in filling washouts or effecting other repairs.
I found the speed cat in N gauge not so reliable (lighter locomotives), in the end with went with the RZtec Speebox on a separate piece of track linked into iTrains, its worth checking out, but not cheap.
An excellent contribution Alan thank you. Regards Charlie