The 5 BIG Issues With Cataclysm That MATTER
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Many of us are expecting Cataclysm Classic to be a follow up to Wrath (will likely find out at Blizzcon) and like any expansion, Cata is not without issues.
Today I go over 5 of the things that I could see as being problematic with this version of WoW
This is The 5 BIG Issues With Cataclysm That MATTER
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![Dalaran Destruction Cinematic: Khadgar's Death - Anduin, Jaina & Thrall Mourn [WoW: War Within]](/img/1.gif)
It's worth noting that the 'break yourself upon my body, feel the strength of the earth' boss is in this xpack.
Back in the day my guild used him as a tank-test. Before taking a tank into raid, we would see how he did in Stonecore.
why do i remember this 😂
That boss was brutal. so many wipes, so much fun.
Ah.. the "Make your overgeared healer WORK" boss
*shudders*
The 10% guild gold bonus really puts the concept of “10% for the Big Guy” into a new perspective!
😂
Republicans try not to think of Hunter Bidens cock challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
😂😂😂
Biden just smiled upon you.
Some of my favorite WoW memories include taking Cata Heroics on my Prot Pally. The feeling of a group who was able to get past the first boss of Stonecore was incredible. Heroic Halls of Origination felt like a raid to me and still stands as one of my favorite dungeons to this day.
I remember loving Archaeology on my Hunter as DPS queues for Heroics were close to an hour for the first month or so of launch. I leveled Arch so fast and got so much cool stuff! I always like having stones available to make dungeons easier for the group. Felt like a profession that actually benefited you outside of gear/consumes.
I think with the attitude change of the player base, Cata will be better received this time around. We know what's coming, and even Dragon Soul won't be hated nearly as much and may in fact be a high point for the rerelease.
meh, I dunno about the dragon soul, I always felt they completely botched up the whole massive dragon fight on a conceptual level already, I just couldn't have cared less for whatever the fuck you're actualy fighting in the game (not to mention 'the green Jesus syndrome' really shone through in that cinematic and story-telling at the end was, again, not engaging to me. But honestly the first 2 tiers are (very) fondly remembered!
I actually hated cata dungeons. In wrath the most fun was to queue up into heroics in full ICC heroic gear as a prot pally and pulling and running non-stop to instead this CC- heavy dungeons in Cata with struggles non-stop
I remember healing them after the nerf to mana, actually had to pay attention. Healing was 100% mana management and zero damage. It was very different. Holy Charka priest was awesome!
Dragonsoul as a whole wasn’t terrible, but madness of deathwing specifically was awful. It was such a let down after spine.
Like wow. Im fighting his ankles. Cool.
@dmv4343 thats why a lot of people like cata because it brought challenge. Nothing is wrong with enjoying easy content at all. I enjoy it at times. But majority of the time. I like a hard fought victory.
I absolutely LOVED release heroics in cata. It's when I first learned how to tank and while they were brutal, they were also the most fun I've ever had doing dungeon content at any point in this game ever. If cata classic happens, I genuinely hope they launch with pre-nerf heroics.
People really gas up the difficulty of the 5 mans, but in reality it just was that the LFG system would pair you up with any class/spec that had x role filled. You could end up forming groups with no cc for a trash pull that made things insanely difficult, or people who just never ccd in the first place.
I am in the full belief that if LFG didn’t exist, people wouldn’t have felt so negatively about them. But this is coming from someone who casually rolled through all of these at 14 years old with their guild just fine on both a restoration shaman and arms warrior.
Ghostcrawler was genuinely right lol
Even normal Cata dungeons were really nice. And Uldum is one of my all-time favourite xp zone.
Had so much fun in the pre-nerf heroics. They were in the exact sweet spot of difficulty. Players had to use their full toolkits and pay attention. CC, interrupts, and target priority mattered.
Too much of wow is just go fast and aoe, and it's boring as shit. Cata was the antithesis of this stupid mindset.
Same and tbh they wherent even that hard, maybe around m+16 level. But whats better is it was good for the game, as a lot of players need that early kick in the teeth to know that they must learn the actual game instead of just trying to face roll everything.
@@theformuoli6397 thats such a good point lmao i was super young aswell and I did ok, a lot of people really just dont want to learn tacs.
Week 1 Cataclysm Heroic dungeons were so goddamn much fun. Next to getting Dragonwrath and oneshotting people in BGs, they were probably my fondest memories from that expansion.
cata heroics are one of my favorite memories of the entire game
Absolutely. First step in and people are using raid markers on mobs. Boss fights were actually fun, couldnt just stand still and shot till dead.
But that was actually not fun, mechanics killed all the fun in the dungeons that previous expansion had.
@@dmv4343 No way! actually having to think was a nice change to the crapfest that was Wrath & BC.
@@kaineskeptic6484 early heroics in tbc were pretty hard compared to wrath at least
One of my biggest gripes about cata wasn’t actually in cata. I thought archaeology was really fun and they did really fun things with it in cata but in every expansion thereafter it became an afterthought. In cata it got you toys, mounts with unique mechanics and even a few pieces of gear. Thereafter it was just a few cosmetic items and some achievements.
Cata was when I resigned as an EU forum MVP. Partly that was due to more work and studies, but in all fairness I also lost interest in the game. The community side of things has always been important to me, and with the cross-realm LFD (and later LFR) tool, there was no longer any sense of people actually attempting to behave and be recognized as good players. It was simply "click the button -> teleport -> get loot -> leave without saying bye".
I also have a love for the original Azeroth, and seing it being changed was a let-down for me.
Cata at launch was great. And to me, the elemental zones were fantastic. I really, really enjoyed Vashj'ir. Dungeons were... what you expect for a dungeon dammit!
It was a magical experience. The raids were rock solid hard as well, even on normal.
So long as Blizzard don't start nerfing immediately I think a lot of people will be happy. Nerf if after Firelands, sure, I guess. Just don't cave in to the people who say its too hard.
fuck yes, first tier dungeons (heroics) were HARD and FUN, and raids were great too at that time, came here to write a comment along those lines but I'll just bump this one up =D
it was not stop copium, zones are HORRIBLE same for dungeon, dogshit game
Vashj'ir was trash, but I loved doing Well of eternity dg.
@irmaodofox I've never understood why people hate vashjir, the only reason I've heard is that hyjal is faster therefore vash is trash. I understand it's not as efficient but it's the only underwater zone in the game and it's so unique and beautiful. Hyjal is just another burning steppes, it's not unique or special like vashjir imo
10 man raiding being viable will be huge for my friends - its sooo much effort maintaining a 25 man sr roster
xd on vanilia you have 40
@@PIXAGODdifference being you can take 39 apes to a vanilla raid
I know the guild gold generation was abusable, but it made it easier to offer guild repairs for people that actually contributed. We had a specific tier for raiders that maintained a certain level of activity. As far as difficulty of content goes, it was hard but fun. I don’t think they’d be a problem that other than the need to actually use CC in dungeon finder. I would hope they’ll try to get 10 and 25 man raids a bit closer in balance, though. The difficulty swing was wild between the two. My guild set up for 10 man because we thought, like WotLK, it would be the easier difficulty. Halfus and magmaw taught us otherwise.
Exactly this. It also made it infinitely easier to keep elixirs and other consumables stocked up. My guild back in the day did the exact same thing, we had a Raider rank that got given consumables, repairs, and our tanks were thrown all sorts of good shit.
Unpopular opinion: cata was actually so dope
No, it wasnt
Cata was a great expansion just had a lackluster last raid.
Aside from dragon soul, I loved the raids in cata. And the changes to lvling and the world I enjoyed as well.
@@derpd-yu3xqagree
@@anthonyrinaldi8242This is the truth. The 1st raid tier and Firelands were awesome.
i remember being a kid and trying to faceroll dungeons and being shocked at how difficult some of them were. looking forward to a ramp up in difficulty
I owned a guild that was realm first to level 25 on Wyrmreat Accord realm. I was quite surprised when it popped up. Unfortunately the guild is now part of history. Thanks for the video.
I still have PTSD from doing grim batol heroic the first month of cata. Even votrex was a 100% wipe on like 4 packs if you didnt CC and interrupt properly
All the bosses in that dungeon were dangerous. The trash was dangerous too - though you could remove most of it with the dragon event (assuming no-one screwed up). Its probably 'the' dungeon of the expansion in terms of innate challenge.
Honestly, Blizzard is in a very unique situation here. They have an extremely rare opportunity to do what most ganes never get to, in working on fixing issues in old expansions. I know it's unrealistic, but I do hope Blizzard has at least considered the idea that they can very much work on content they didn't have the development time for in previous expansions. People say Warlords of Draenor was an expansion that had too many ideas that couldn't be put in the final cut. Well if Blizzard chose to, this hypothetical WoD Classic could actually have those features. Same with a Cata Classic.
I would really like to see them redo the class changes
My only big complaint with cata was the old world zones changing. I guess it was a necessary evil, but the nostalgia of the old zones was lost somewhat.
That for me is actually the biggest pro's of the expansion.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the zones updated again a decade following the Cataclysm, after the land has started to heal.
Imo they should just throw chromie in somewhere and allow players to go between them
The new zones were actually so much fun, especially the new old world dungeons
Honestly, I'm surprised to see the 10 man raiding incentive brought up as a negative despite the balancing issues. That was my favorite part of Cata, personally. 10M is just a more intimate experience. You get to know people better. It's easier to have a conversation while playing together, whereas 25M is usually a "clear comms" situation of sitting in a discord call with mandatory push to talk so that people aren't speaking over each other. I clear both 10 and 25 of all current content weekly, have done for all of Wotlk. Definitely look forward to the 10M runs more, though. 25M for me is just a loot grind. 10 is where the journey with friends is at.
I00% agree.
I'm torn about the 10 vs 25 divide that occurred during Cata and MoP. It basically rendered 25 man raiding a niche segment. I'm glad its at 20 man mythic.
It kind of undermined the purpose of 25m guilds pretty hard but I kinda think if they are open to adjusting stats as it is, increasing the 25m hc loot by 6 item levels wouldn’t be seen as a negative in anyway. 10m hc loot still is near bis, 25m hc stays relevant, gg
Depends on your guild. My 25 man guild banters a lot and we only clear comms during difficult progression - which my 10 man guild also does despite being more casual in nature.
As for the loot - its great as it is. 25 man gets more drops so you're more likely to see something useful drop - whereas you might be waiting a long, long, long time for an item in 10 man despite having no competition.
And merging the lockout encourages having alts raiding. Which is great for those with the time to level alts.
@@theformuoli6397 That's not a fair compromise as it just kills 10m raiding flat out. 25m already had higher loot quantity than 10m did which off-set gearing speed in favor of 25m.
People don't like getting weaker loot but are more tolerant towards slower loot acquisition.
I think the player base originally blamed Cataclysm for ruining the game, but now that I've had a second run through Wrath I'm not so sure it was Cata. I have to applaud Blizzard for trying to build guild spirit and group participation again, even if it didn't turn out that way.
They have already said in interviews that they will be bringing back RDF etc so pretty much trashing the value of Guilds while pretending they matter...
@@josephteller9715 RDF is 5-man content. Last I check raids were 10 and 25-man.
honestly, the reason i hated cata is becouse they destroyed my beloved Barrens.
Everytime i was feeling down, i would just level up an alt in the barrens.. i wouldn't progress it past 30.. but damn leveling in the barrens, with this chill music, finding people along the way.. it always felt like home.
I felt like my home was taken, so i hated it.
Cata is a great expansion the problem is wrath was top tier so very hard to live up to. The actually hard heroics and all the raids were sooooo good. Yes dragon soul IS good but unfortunately the weakest raid in the expansion so it just looks bad by comparison.
It was the expansion right after this, Mists of Pandaria. Cata was basically more of the same following the recipe of the expansions before it, no massively changed gameplay functions, no massively new features, just new areas, new dungeons, new raids, new mobs. Sure they had the guild overhaul, but I don't think anyone found that to be an issue. Only debateable point was the barrens rework but at the same time I personally liked the Barrens changes, so I feel that's definitely a hit/miss point depending on who you are and not nearly as offensive as the game goes on to become later on.
25m doesn't just have more loot per player, but because it gets significantly more rolls on the same loot table as 10m, 25m achieves bis exponentially faster. This combined with more battle rez's per player and generally easier boss fights, I'm worried guilds will feel forced to continue doing 25m. GDKP's will absolutely be doing 25m, it's a no brainer. There will be items that 10m guilds never see drop a single time in addition to items that no one can use. 10m Cata loot gripes is what gave rise to bonus rolls in MoP.
Despite all of those advantages, 25m nearly went extinct midway through Cata, as all but the most hardcore and established 25m guilds died. The players voted with their actions, and yet, the devs would ultimately side with the 25m guilds when they killed 10m raiding in WoD. The only problem with 10m was that 25m was siphoning development time away from it when 25m was a ghost town.
I think what’s benefited Cataclysm is that, for as controversial as it was for its time, it’s failures seem so trivial compared to what happened with other expansions down the line as well as the overall perception of Blizzard changing over the following expansions from this infallible titan of gaming to a fallen entity that’s despised and Mocked ceaselessly.
Like after Cataclysm, you Had Mist of Pandaria being a perfectly good expansion but players were turned off by the pandas and more chill locations thinking it was a joke, Warlords of Draenor had barely any updates and was disappointing despite the hype, Legions was probably the most well lauded expansion since WotLK, and then… BFA and Shadowlands. Yea… tough scene. Before finally settling on Dragonflight which isn’t a dumpster fire like it’s older siblings but also not doing anything particularly exciting so it’s kinda like MoP where it’s not making everyone rush back to play WoW.
So that’s basically 3 outright bad/hated expansions, 2 expansions that don’t get the love like Vanilla/TBC/WotLK but aren’t too hated either, and then 1 that most people would unequivocally call good. You could say that’s a generous 3/6 or 1/6 if you’re that big of a hater.
-issue #1 cash flow: remove from game
-issue #2 hard mode dungeons being actually hard is fine, wotlk are hilariously ez
-issue #3 LFR: its a tool, you could use it or... no. But moving players ino a good "ingame" voice chat would help a lot, letting players to select their languaje besides their role.
-issue #4 10 and 25 with the same loot: i like it, if you see the stadistics from 25hm clears on wotlk, youll see that a big part of the community couldnt break that wall, having the opportunity to grab the best items without doing gdkp sounds exactly like perfect solution to wotlk
-issue #5 players didnt like lst phase of content: nothing to do here since they will copy & paste again, everything else have an ez fix if they actually work
Surprised you didn't mention Transmog.
This definitely shifted away that MMO feel and made the game feel like 'modern wow'
i feel like transmog can be seen as peak MMO experience tho. Having your character look the way you want seems like nothing but upside.
Transmog makes the game infinitely better. Appearances matter so much.
I really started raiding during Catalysm and have a lot of good memories from that. Im excited to play it again and with some changes I think it will be a real good experience.
That and Cataclysm still suffered from the same issue Wrath did - being endgame focused, particularly raids and dungeons and trying to make the game harder, it was all bad for the game overall.. The only upside of Cata was the leveling due to quest and zone revamp, it was at least ''refreshing'' seeing as the zones had actual stories, but it was still too fast. I leveled plenty back then, though abandoned every character at max lvl as there was just no incentive to do anything. Despite some immersion, the game still pushed you towards raids, dungeons, endgame grinds...meh, it's just not Classic unfortunately, where the world and the community itself is the game...and not just raidlogging. Did some heroic dungeons....but that got boring after a few times. It was never about ''diffculty'' or complexity, most players don't want that...but simplicity and fun engagement as a game-wide community.
I personally did not like the new expansion being broken up into separate zones all spread out and Really didn't like the revamp of Azeroth. The removal of class trees was also a Huge negative to Cata, can't believe you left that one out. I stopped playing a few months into Cata then came back for MoP.
A note about "unnerfed TBC": this was deceptive from Blizzard. Even though the instances themselves were unnerfed:
1) players got from day 1 all the buffs that were only due to happen in the later phases, effectively making heroics much easier.
2) expansion-wide nerfs were applied from day 1, affecting heroics too ⇒ good examples are the removal of 6k-Cleave, which most elites - world and instance - had in vanilla TBC, and the change to agro mechanics : in vanilla TBC, an incapacitated tank lost agro, causing mobs to rush towards the healer - distributing aforementioned Cleave along the way - this required good coordination, reflexes and proper CC.
I feel you missed a big one. The fact they tore the world apart. That was one of the big selling points to play classic again. To be able to run the old zones.
Pre nerf heroics in Cata meant triage healing, a much more fun and enjoyable style to spikey damage. As someone whose healed for 17 years, that was one of my favourite times.
And as someone who played holy paladin and could really only heal one person at a time and had to wait to build combo points to do it, it was extra intense triage! Way too stressful than I wanted out of my for-fun video game, so if they go through with cata difficulty again I'm sure as hell not playing paladin again
Yeah it was super enjoyable to have just enough mana for maybe 8 or 10 heal casts and then you were tapped and the group wiped. Tried as a druid, priest and shaman back then and nothing worked well. Even with perfect play, no overhealing, leaving dps at low hp to prioritize the tank, sometimes it just didn't matter. You didn't have enough mana or healing power to do the job. I quit Cata after a few weeks.
The biggest issue I have is how people hated on cata for 10+ years and now all of a sudden people are going to love it because it's "classic". Hypocrisy just boggles my mind. Even on retail, two most enjoyable tiers, T11 and T12 didn't have LFR. BoT, TotFW, BWD, FL, all were incredible. I have never had as much fun as I had during these raids. I still remember when I got the 372 trinket for hunter from Halfus Wyrmbreaker, when I got "I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am", when I ranked up in my guild to become a raid leader for one of the groups, when we downed Ragnaros HC, when we were minmaxing with demonology lock with moonwell challice and mastery gear swap to get an insane demon form multiplier on pull. This expansion is great. I really hope you guys will have a blast playing it. I totally believe it's better than WotLK in almost every aspect. Mechanics-wise it's just fantastic.
The people that hated on it still hates on it. Its more the people there found it meh or never played it are hyped for it.
Honestly most of the hate came from ignorance and bandwagoning. People who actually played it have always had an okay opinion of it - criticising Dragon Soul but saying the rest was pretty good. All the haters quit early on or never played to begin with. Same with MoP.
WotLK launch content was ridiculously easy and heroics were so undertuned it made normal dungeons irrelevant.
They fixed the problem in Cata, but the same Bad Players cried and squealed until Activision caved in and made everything trivial again.
IMO the biggest problem cata had was actually the Old-World Revamp, a problem that still lingers in modern WoW today.
So many of the zones imo feel like lesser hollowed out versions of what they were prior. The quest design and writing imo are both some of the worst in WoW, both due to their humor and hamfisted references (more so than usual). Questing really became far more on-rails here than even in WotLK, and it makes leveling in those zones a very samey experience. A lot of these zones lost a lot of their original flavor or what I really liked about them, and only a handful I think had notable lore or story improvements that actually signaled change happening in the world. But honestly, it set such a bad precedent because by them UDPATING the old world, now players would expect that to be CONSISTENTLY updated to reflect the changes in the world and story: something that they're still struggling to do to this day, and why people always speculate and ask for another round of zone updates.
Going back to Vanilla->wotlk really showed me just how much more I prefer the old zones to the classic ones in every respect. I think consolidating the reworks to a handful of zones, or more of the endgame vanilla ones that got the most attention anyway, probably would have been better. But so many of the zone storylines are just weird rehashes and sequels to what we already got, and then sometimes would reference characters/events/quests that were no longer in the game because they removed them -- and wouldn't allow players a choice or the ability to even see what they were like originally. The only positive I think Cata-era zones really have is that questing is a lot faster, and that flying in them was pretty cool for a bit too. The new Cata zones filling out gaps in the original maps is a cool idea, but I wish it were expanded upon more instead of what we got.
Part of the reason vanilla's world has so much appeal imo is that it's literally lost to time. The content no longer exists, those zones no longer exist, at least by the modern game's client. Even the majority of the dungeons were overhauled or revamped over the course of Cata-MoP and WoD.
And it's the biggest bummer I have thinking about going to Cata-Classic: We'll lose the old world again, and it'll just be relegated to vanilla Era servers only. Some people will be fine with this, but it just hurts to see it go again, and I wish they'd offer us some form of Chromie-Time in modern wow to have a chance and experience that content again in the main client if we so chose.
I fully admit and recognize though that for like 90% of people playing Classic, especially wotlk-> cata, that the leveling and old world content will literally not even be a minor thought and that it's just exclusively going to be about the endgame raiding and pvp.
I think that's a shame, personally, since I always thought of WoW more than just a raiding/arena/rated battleground simulator, but I know that for most people my complaints will be dismissed bc it's not where people spend a lot of their time or nostalgia.
From someone who played since classic, I still stand by my statement years and years ago. Cata was the last great wow. Everything up to it was awesome, everything after was basically just shit molded into something half acceptable. I did hate the gold skimping by guilds.
Im a Cata diehard enjoyer, I fully acknowledge that my love for the expansion is through rose tinted goggles, but my God it was so good. RBG's were absolutely the pinnacle of wow for me, just unbelievably intense. I remember our guild was pushing for R1 on the realm and top 0.5% on the battlegroup when we would run into the other highly rated guild on our server, it was pure rivalry and every game felt like mainstage blizzcon.
Not to mention a ton of classes start to get more in-depth and feel more modern, genuinely brought WoW to life for me from a gameplay standpoint.
BRING ON CATA.
No. Bury it in history. Short of Shadowlands it was the WORST expansion on multiple levels. Let it die and be forgotten.
Cata as an expansion meant less for me as a game as the people I got to play with again, as a sort of reunion expac. I had quit in TBC and not returned until the start of Cata so my memories are of the guildies and good times downing actually hard content again. I also felt far more seasoned as a player and was empowered by my own success as a raider doing heroics. I think for me it was actually the pinnacle of WoW and my fondest time with the game. Sure the expansion sucked for people who had played through WotLK but for me it was a fresh start and loads of fun. If I could have that same crew in classic again, I'd 10/10 do it all over again.
cata classic releasing is the ultimate proof that wow classic was a tremendous success.
The thing I remember most was the broken rework of the old world that made leveling a new character incredibly painful and the overly hard dungeons at the beginning that made 5-man pugs not worth bothering trying, so you had to do it with guildies or reliable players you already knew you could count on. While I had raided in the past, I gave it up sometime during Wrath, so I never saw any raid content in Cata until LFR. A lot of people just did LFR to see the content, so failing and / or not getting such great loot was okay if you were no longer progression focused.
one thing I appreciated about Cataclysm was how they tried to make regular dungeons harder and you had to use crowd control in them, and of course as always wow players started crying like children instead of getting better
This. Having difficult dungeons was like having unlimited raid content.
@@kimbo5409 Which is why Challenge Mode was such a great addition in MoP. Some of my best times.
Cata... the expansion that makes me consider going and playing Hard Core Classic...better to fall back then misery forward. Especially since they will Hyper Monotorize Cata.
Imo cata was actually good as an expansion, but it's the end of any bit of classic WoW. It completely changes the game, while wrath did as well but cata completely changed the old world and the talent system.
Did you forget ICC heroic dungeons existed in Wrath? FoS was the easier if the three but still quite easy to die in a couple spots and especially on the last boss if DPS isn't paying attention which felt like was all the time back in the day for me as a healer. It was quite a wake up call for everyone just like MT was at the end of BC.
Mained my rogue through that expansion. The moment I realized recuperate was a thing, cataclysm became a rogues paradise. Sub felt good, tsunami assassination rotation felt good. Then the announcement of legendary daggers, that xpak was just loaded with happy memories.
Problems:
1. It sucks.
2. It sucks.
3. It sucks.
4. It sucks.
5. It sucks.
They should just completely remake Dragonsoul, not snip the talent trees and we have perfection. Vashjir still my favourite starting zone.
not having lfd is actually what killed any interest i had in wrath classic.
a group builder tool does make anyone more social, a majority of groups still barely talk to each other. the primary difference is that now you have to awkwardly wait in silence for everyone to gather at the dungeon entrance and buff up instead of just jumping into a run and getting started, they have un-automated a vompletely joyless task and made you do it manually for the sake of immersion.
i used to get 3 dungeons done an hour with almost no downtime, it was nearly constant gameplay, now it sometimes takes an hour just to get started.
Its almost instant on whitemane to get a group for dungeons. It just sucks for low level dungeons which are non existing
@@ex7229 I love Whitemane, and I have thoroughly enjoyed all the PVE content on there so far, i just wish that it was PVE focused instead of PVP focused as it would fit my tastes as a player more
Even with the LFD system there you still find many talkative people so long as they speak the same language as you (but that's moreso a problem with private servers in general than the system)
100% agree, been hoping for RDF for a while
I would find it so hillarious if cataclysm classic turns out the best and most played, not only because its really not as bad as everyone thinks but just to shut up the elitiests as well pretending like they played the game
I feel like a big thing missed here also is the leveling experience becoming constantly easier over expansions. Been playing some vanilla HC on the official realms recently and it's so much fun for being WoW even without the endgame content. I feel like even in Wrath, the leveling is already rather easy and from what I've heard it's just going to get even easier in Cata.
Obviously not expecting something like having to drink or eat after every 3 mobs, but it's really refreshing to be able to get value out of cc such as frost nova and polymorph, or consumables (not to mention profession items being actually useful).
Main difference for me is that Wrath leveling is easy and I wished there would be more, while Cata leveling is easy but getting it done was a relief. It was dull as hell. And the underwater area was a good idea but past the novelt factor, it just doesn't work well with WoW fight mechanics.
The only thing I remember of Cata is the PVP
You say the cash perk created the cesspool guild, I beg to differ, I say the perk merely brought those guilds to peoples attention. The cesspool guild always existed and gave people a reason to stick around in them. Before, youd just bail and tell them to piss off, now you are getting all kinds of perks and goodies for putting up with them, and they had more incentive to be aggressive with recruitment. Ive been in cesspool guilds since I started playing the game back in '06. I was in one specifically in BC where the Guildmaster openly used people to level their alts, then guild kick them. In Cata, they would probably just keep them around for abuse because they make them money.
A Cataclysm re-release success will be predicated on if the dev team can officially implement what works and what doesn't. in WotLK a carbon copy would be mostly acceptable, but in Cata, I think it would find major success if the team did start picking and choosing what to bring back, and what to change for the better. the group finder is a perfect example of this, among many other things.
I'll tell you one thing the community is dead silent on but is one of the major major reasons why WoW plummeted. It was WOTLKs changes to leveling, which only ended up getting worse.
What I mean is they took the vast majority of elites out of the world, fucked quests all up, everything was solo-able and much easier than before. It's why we'll never see a "hardcore WOTLK". And if we do, it will be very unpopular, because there's very little, if any, risk of failure while questing.
Here's how I would change two of the big issues... Cash Flow and 10/25 man raiding.
Cash Flow - Instead of 10% of the amount looted make it 1% and instead of generating gold have it be a credit towards guild repairs up to a certain amount of gold. That way there's a limit but it still exists as a perk.
10/25m Raid - They should just implement the flex raiding system similar to how it is right now in retail but not include personal loot. Instead just have extra pieces drop based on a certain threshold of players.
As far as heroics being difficult, they should be. However, I think with the H+ system that WOTLK has they'll likely roll in the hard aspects of heroics into that system.
"Not Without Issues" is an understatement.
Cataclysm was the best expansion actually
@@MoonTurky Not for me and my friends... we walked away from the game for a while entirely and didn't come back until MOP.
Cata was my favorite PVP era, both bgs, rbg, and arenas were popping off. Idk if I would play if there wasn't LFG for dungeon tho, with no LFG it makes everything so annoying on WOTLK and as someone who only has a few hours to play a week it just takes up so much time. There is nothing stopping users from not using LFG if they don't want to, but it should be added for casual players.
I am just so stuck to the Warcraft 3 universe, that I have no plans to move to Cataclysm. Never did, probably never will. The death of Arthas is the last page for me.
There are also good tomes after the last page of trylogy man, trust me. You abandon lot of fun just because cata is like 8.5/10 in compare to 10/10 wotlk - but its still very good game
Genuine question: wouldn’t releasing Cataclysm Classic defeat the purpose of Classic? Like that expansion remade the old zones? Like if you enjoyed Thousand Needles in Vanilla then you probably won’t like Thousand Needles in Cata?
That is a good point.
Maybe a bold move by Blizzard would be to fork here, and attempt a new expansion based on WotLK?
Considering what they did with wrath, I'm not sure what to expect. TBC was still in spirit of classic. But wrath is more close to retail.
Cata is the antithesis of classic
How so?
Cata is PEAK classic.
LFD is being added to Wrath Classic. Blizzard just confirmed it.
As long as they keep that cancer called LFR away from Cata Classic, it will be an awesome expansion to play.
Cataclysm has some of the best raids and dungeons ever made, I don’t know why so many hated on cata
I hated LFR in cata and on. Yet now I play FF and use the system constantly. I might have been to harsh on it. But the community wasn't ready for it either. No one knew how to wipe and just try again.
I think you are spot on with “too harsh” and “the community wasn’t ready”. That’s honestly the best take
Cata was great. Dragon Soul sucked. But overall everything else was really good. Loved the dungeons, loved how difficult dungeons were at the start. The leveling is so much fun. Death Knights were amazing which was a big W for me lol. I honestly thought that this and MoP were peak WoW
MoP was peak WoW for me too. Cata had a stumble, but was overall very enjoyable.
The problem i see is that in a casual guild, you could complete all content in classic, then you could do Black Temple but not the endgame instance (we ran out of time, gotten the first boss down), then in Wrath you can complete Ulduar and a few hardmodes but forget about Algalon.
The fun is leaving quickly if you can choose between grinding dailies or finding a new guild with none of your friends in it.
They catered to the hardcore crowd and then went overboard for the "casual player" who isn't in a guild. But the backbone of the game were always the guilds, and not the top 50 ones but the rest. I think they failed to realise how much that sea of people supported the hardcore raiders and helped the casual players integrate into the game.
They have to fix healers in early 5-mans and raids. That was rough, and took way too long to fix originally.
Ive been playing a ton or Cata lately and its dope. Idk why people hated on it so much.
Nobody understands it. Just boomers being boomers i guess. Cata has it pros and cons, as any other expansion. Anything related to raiding was a big W
Bandwagoning to some degree. Most of the anti-Cata talking points are flat out incorrect information, showing few of its critics actually played.
The only and I really do mean, the only way Cataclysm classic would be remotely worth it, would be if they actually added the missed raid tier (the same goes for a WoD remake, if it included the cut content).
Otherwise, it feels like basic classic is showing it's faults and cracks and going past Wrath (which felt like a flop) is only going to highlight that more so.
I remember in og cataclysm when the guild leveling system got out there was a guy on my server just making an absolute zerg guild. Once the guild had reached high enough lvls to purchase the mount (i think dark pheonix and some other? ), he kicked everyone and sold access to the guild for gold lol.
Cata is the one expansion I didn't play when it was current and I'm not exactly interested in trying it postmortem.
I love cata one of my favorite expacs ever, ive been excitedly waiting for it since tbc came out, hopefully we actually get it. The only problem is i will not be playing it at all without Dungeon finder
I loved Guild achievements! It gave us something to do on none raid nights.
The evening that we decided to kill the 100,000 critters for the achievement was so cool. It took about forty minutes, no big deal, but there were fifty of us scattered around the world killing critters. It was fun.
I don't understand how the community decided Cata was a bad expansion.
It was the last expansion I practically played and the one I enjoyed the most.
LFR is not bad at all. It allowed solo players to experience raid content with lower difficulty and lower gear levels. If you wanted better gear do the 10-25 man version with harder mechanics abd better gear. How is having options bad?
The HC dungeons had difficult mechanics and required paying attention. It is true that dungeons in wrath became nothing more than constant aoe pulls. CC became obsolete.
Another positive thing was class balance and PVP. I don't do Arena, I mainly do BG's. It was a fun experience overall. And to top it off, the new class race combinations. Mainly the troll druids and tauren paladins. The zones were nice, the story was good, the events, the BM hunter pets.
Last raid was lackluster, but for me the most important part of an expansion is the class design, and cata nailed it. Each spec felt great imo and it is the first expansion where you couldnt go wrong by chosing a spec for any content (except frost mage in pve, they were still pvp only).
Also it is the only expansion where Arms warrior was an abaolute monster in pve, which I think is cool.
You just couldn't go wrong in playing the spec you want and doing the content you want.
My big issues with Xpac: LFR, the nerfing of heroics, the fact that the patch dungeons made all previous dungeons irrelevant, (I forget the name) but the system where players from other realms would appear/disappear on your realm, leveling becoming too easy with talent rework/heirlooms, and the final raid tier being meh.
Most of these are easy to fix. LFR is just less work to not do the thing people don't want. GG. Nerfing heroics is also another thing you don't have to do, and players on average are much better now than they were back then. Not having a LFD system and using the one we do in Wrath should be enough. As for new patch dungeons making the others obsolete, look at how Wrath has H++ dungeons with the previous tier's loot thrown in... you don't even have to add affixes since these dungeons are hard, just add in the loot with the patch drops. EASY fix. It's also a matter of "not doing" something which prevents the phasing between different realms, so that is a win for the smaller dev team.
The last two would be hard to address. Since the leveling for most people will be from 80-85 (most will already have an 80) the easy leveling shouldn't be too bad since it will either be used for alts or to quickly level something with the new race/class combos or one of the two new races. Not ideal but not game breaking. The big one is the final raid tier... it reused a location as well as many assets, lacked memorable fights, and the last two fights against Deathwing are especially hated. If they can do something about that I think it will go over better than most people are expecting.
People hate on LFR but that shit was dope for gearing up alts. I was clearing heroic raids in cata and mop and utilized the shit out of lfr for my alts. It was especially useful in SoO as so mained a restodruid but we really needed a disc priest for hc blackfuse so I’d come in on my priest for that fight (atonement was broken af lol). The lfr gear was super helpful for that, particularly the difficult to get trinkets.
Cata was a better wotlk in every way, except it had 1 fewer raid tiers and instead of an equivalent of WotLK 10 Man Normal raid difficulty, there was nothing in the beginning and then LFR in the end, which wasn't it.
But wotlk has trial of the crusader, the worst raid in WoW history, which is why WoW stopped growing as people started leaving.
Otherwise the world revamp for the most part was fantastic, 1-60 became so good and 80-85 was great too.
The raid and dungeon quality, depth and complexity was on a new level and Tier11 and Firelands are still some of the best raids ever, while DS was weaker, but still better than Wrath Naxx, OS, EoE, RS and TotC. 10 Man raising in Cata was the best, now it was on par with 25 Man and that meant you can just do 10 man only.
The class design in Cata was peak class design all the way up to Shadowlands and Dragonflight.
Itemization in Cata was finally excellent too.
We also had a dungeon tier for each raid tier, that means that you can progress to current raid tier ilvl through dungeons alone.
PvP also peaked in Cata until Shadowlands and Dragonflight.
And we got molten front which was very cool for the time
Reputations were the best in Cata too, you still used tabards and you still did quests, but it was so much smoother and nicer.
And you could now farm older raids easier.
Overall Cata just needs 1 more raid tier and a proper PuG raid difficulty similar to WotLK 10 man Normal.
I still remember when 4.0.6 came out and Totalbiscuit fucking lost it; I still remember him showing the TL;DR of the notes and it was like "All things nerfed by 66%" instead of any written text.
the ability prune to me was 1 of the worse things to happen in wow, shaman went from 4/5 action bars or like 30 binds to not able to fill 1 bar it was comical when your whole class gets deleted
I feel like the guild gold bonus is probably the easiest of these issues to fix. Nerf the bonus from 5/10 to 1/5 (or similar) and restrict it to gold drops in guild-majority groups. This drastically lowers the amount of gold coming into a guild and requires that the guild actually work together to receive it, thus making shill guilds a much less profitable and far more time-consuming venture.
As marksman, prot paladin, and elemental shaman, Cata was my favorite expansion overall. (5-mans, raiding, battlegrounds, arena)
The Cataclysm world is ironically more nostalgic since I haven't seen it since, well, Cataclysm, but I already played the vanilla world on some private servers before Classic was relesed.
One thing that cata ruined was world pvp. And just flying over all the new content.
Week 1 Heroic Deadmines. It took my LFD group... wait for it... 8 fucking hours. And it. Was. GLORIOUS.
i say they re-add some of the cut content from the cataclysm beta. Like the Titan Rune System and the Abyssal Depths raid.
I know that some players are stereotyped and think that cataclysm is not a classic addition, but trust me, blizzard will prove to everyone that cataclysm is no less classic than lich king. We will be able to make sure of this personally and it will not be very long to wait.
Going to be a big drop off in the player base, probably half or more. Hope Blizzard is ready with fresh vanilla servers for the people who want to continue playing WoW not the earliest version of retail.
When you write that many will leave, then at that moment your acquaintances from vanilla and lich king come to mind, but you do not take into account that other fans who are not currently playing on official classic servers or playing df will take their place, but he it doesn't quite suit them and then they will go to the cataclysm server, because vanilla and lich king are very outdated for such people.@@Maxvla
Anytime I see someone crying wotlk was the best. All I hear is. "I just like how easy precata was.'
Cata separate the good and the bad. Gone where the days of easy content and aoe/walking sims.
I’m really REALLY hoping Cata Classic doesn’t happen.
I read an article in April saying that Kotaku had received a document stating that Blizzard was working on an alternate timeline where the objective of the expansion was to prevent the Cataclysm and that the old world would not be shaped by Deathwings rampage. Is this even close to being true?
Tuaren Herb Bots instantly picking all the flowers. Hunters have 0 magic spells and getting killed by the same dungeon boss over and over again in less you bought beer from BRD that placed a dot on you. Or the crazy amount of bugs and balance issues. It was a rough start.
I love cata, was my sweatiest point in wow, Killed heroic rag pre nerf and had a guild that was basically family. It was the greatest video game experience of my life.
Cataclysm without LFR, with improved 5-Man-Heroic(+?) and keep the 10-25-Man Raids with all the loot, difficulty and so on (10-Man was harder than 25, this was pretty fun imho).
This could be a nice WoW Classic Addon.
I started wow at vanilla, then i went through TBC and WOLKT. Hopefully i didn't play Cata. Should have stopped at TBC released. Cata was the final nail in the coffin.
Mass teleport reminds me of the protoss cinematic in legacy of the void in sc2. Mass Rezz is Anduin in BFA Cinematic
One of my least favourite tings in Cata is how annoying it is to get around compared to Classic. In Classic you don’t really miss having more flight-paths because you don’t get harassed by NPC that much while following most roads.
Not only are so many roads destroyed in Cata, but it’s also filled with this stupid looking skirmishes everywhere with hyper-spawning NPCs. You only want to move between flight-paths once and then you’re just going to spam flight-paths because moving around on the grown is a pain in the 🍑
I... don't think people saying "ah your rose-tinted goggles about the difficulty of the heroics and so forth" are entirely in the right. Is content clearable? Absolutely. Will an average player do it? Yes, of course. Will they do it easily with a fairly random group because "you cc one or 2 targets and blast things down"? Not really.
Classic has shown us that some things WERE hard even back in the day (end of t5, sunwell, parts of ulduar etc) and while the Cata dungeons are by no means the pinnacle of WoW difficulty, they are fondly remembered by so many precisely because of the challenge they presented. Hell, I did t5, and sunwell, and ulduar. And I'm telling you, doing Cata heroics with pre-raid gear required group coordination, a tank that knew how to kite, a healer that didn't fuck up many gcds because that meant ded tank, and people knowing the dungeon and not fucking up the mechanics, + the dps checks were pretty damn steep sometimes as well. They are FUN, in a challenging way (ofc once you get geared enough they trivialize and ofc they nerfed them, HARD, which sucked, but they wouldn't have gone doing that in the first place if "they weren't really hard to begin with"). We played them with guildies and people we knew, it was sufficiently hard to be a pain in the ass with randoms, and yes you usually weren't going for the quadruple druid comp. Sure, it's a badge farm. But it wasn't a snoozefest and honestly, those heroics are like one of my fondest wow memories ever.
Was anyone else turned off by the weird hp/mana/dmg scaling in cata? A mage went from having 18khp to 109k in 5 levels…
Idk i have already 21k on my mage with togc gear but besides that, yea, cata significantly boosted char values
The ironic part was that people have always complained that cataclysm and by extension mop, made the game too easy.
Contrary to that, they also bitched that dungeons were too hard.
I guess when it comes to wow players, as long as the game meets their fun requirements and definitions of fun, they're happy.
Man, if only the developers were mind readers or something before releasing updates.
They could also just vote on changes like in osrs.
I can't wait to be able to finally play Dragon Flight "Classic" Nostalgia for the win those were some good times.
I had forgotten how challenging the heroics were early on, I remember it being challenging and a lot of fun!
My 5 biggest issues with Cata:
1) Spine of Deathwing was so hard that it caused guilds to poach Mages with legendaries just to beat it. This caused all the guilds who lost their legendary mages to collapse.
2) Heroic Rag 25m was too hard. While not as tough as Spine of Deathwing, the continuous wiping month after month caused a lot of guilds to break up
3) The passive gold gained to the guilds caused the economy to go out of whack. All other guild perks were fine with me, but this one was later removed.
4) The imbalance and creation of 10M heroic. As touched on by this video, the fights were always harder on 10 or 25m, but the 2 big ones were way harder on 25m. More importantly which is not mentioned, the creation of 10M guilds broke up the original model of fewer big guilds on the server. One could argue that was a good thing, but losing 1-2 people in your 10m group was often catastrophic.
5) LFR... so much as been said about how bad LFR is that I don't need to add anything else.
The biggest issue with cata was resource allocation. If you go back and watch cata blizzcon, you will see that 75% of thier sales pitch is leveling focused. The problem is, everyone had max toons. They talk about the new races, they talk about the new class race combos, they talk about the world revamp. But most of the playerbase wont interact with that stuff in any meaningful way. As a result the endgame suffered massively. T11 is in the conversation for best of all time the reason that that is is it brought back the idea of multiple raids making up the tier that was lost in wrath. However that idea falls apart in FL where there is only 7 bosses. Clearly there was suposed to be a vashir water based raid to complete the neptolon storyline. You see blozz learning from this mistake is MoP goesing from the multiraid tier 14 to throne of thunder with 15 bosses. I hope they complete tier 12 and 13 and add aditional raids come classic cata
Despite not playing very much of actual Cata, I did have good memories from those years. I remember joining a level 20 guild only for the heirlooms (I think that toon is still in that guild to this day, but I don't ever log in anymore). The level 70 twinking scene took off in Cata as well, with TBC becoming the new baseline game, Exp Off toons at 70-74 played with account-capped toons at 70. I joined a guild for 70 BGs, even did some rated BGs with my ~50% PvP DR prot pally. Also made a 71 DK with Nifflevar's Bearded axes from archaeology. Those were fun times. Content specific to Cata though, I barely touched.