My Tav and team accidentally made Wyll an enemy at the Grove fight against the goblins. We killed him, and since this was my 3rd playthrough, I thought someone in the Grove would be mad at us. Nope. Nothing. No one acknowledged Wyll's existence despite being a Folk Hero to the Tieflings...
I recently saw a Short on RUclips that perfectly summed up Wylls situation. "I'm going to sacrifice my entire life to protect those people" "But which one of them is ready to sacrifice their life for you?"
@@daskaninchenThat’s why I love Wyll so much though. He is truly, undeniably, a good person. I mean no one has a perfect set of morals, but Wyll is genuinely altruistic. And in real life, or fiction, seeing a man be as good as he can be, because he feels like no one else will, is always something I can just fall in love with.
Was looking for Wyll mods (because there's a pretty hair mod for him) and I found mods that turned him white (and his dad too) which takes the fun out of modding sometimes as a black person. Ah yeah lets talk to space aliens and cast fireball from thin air but god forbid we add a black person in a game.
If it was on Nexus, you can and should report it because they have a policy to remove mods that make a deliberate effort to remove diversity. They removed a mod that made Aylin a man for that reason.
I want Wyll helping you schmooze with nobles in the Upper City. I want more people recognizing Wyll and asking him what in the hells happened to him. I want more ramifications to Mizora’s meddling - shopkeepers being fed lies like Florrick was, maybe. I want Wyll investigating the political dealings of Cazador and Gortash, he’s our best suited companion even if he has horns. I want the tieflings interacting with him after his transformation, imagine the character moment for both him and Zevlor if the latter gave him a dressing down for being a big baby about his horns, when it’s all the tieflings have ever known. Total missed opportunity for class awareness for the self proclaimed Blade, and I’m SURE it was part of the potential trajectory for EA Wyll. He never gets over his transformation, either. He has sadboy moments in act 1 and a couple jokes/lack of recognition from other characters, and that’s it. He’s not even monstrous! Sure, some of that could be the fault of the devs not wanting the ONE brown person in the main party to look visibly monstrous, but they stripped him of his personality instead. Like, the game’s good, and where the writing shines it shines, and it’s nice seeing the occasional woman in power, though it still follows the “one woman per powerful team” rule, and while some of the skimpy armor men can wear, there’s still a serious discrepancy, and on and on and on. Basically, the game’s good. But it’s still been dunked in racism and sexism, and as a black woman I 😢 + want better for our collective fave Warlock.
To me Wyll has the issue of being too perfect. The gang you travel with all have issues character-wise. Made mistakes, have trauma. And then there is Wyll. He has problems to deal with but is a stable and friendly character, he made a hard decision but did the right thing. There is hardly any growth he can go through. I really like Wyll and romanced him but he sometimes feels stale in a game. Evil ends also dont really make sense with him. Nothing drives him that way.
I love Wyll. He’s my all-time bromance. His warrior-poet musings and unwavering goodness are to me GOOD qualities. I do think him AND Karlach suffer from a lack of personal change. The world changes around them and they react. I do wish Wyll revealed some complexities of bloodlust or arrogance or even insecurity for a dark middle of his arc. He feels sort of “finished” when we first meet him, like BG3 is the sequel to the Wyll focused game.
Wyll to me plays as ultimate boy scout, sorta like Captain America or Superman. He doesn't let the world get him down, he still sees hope in things despite his situation. Even when Mizora tricked him into his situation she doesn't seem fully committed in bringing him down. In D&D if you don't do what your patron wants you to do, that typically doesn't work out well for your character. But Mizora kinda goes easy on him (for a devil), even though she's evil, she's just not fully committed to having him totally outright killed due to his moral compass. It's like she'd rather have him around just for someone to talk to or argue against (Or to torture more). I feel that relationship should have been explored more and was rife with _interesting_ takes on what could have happened. Like imagine if it were an option for Wyll to romance her? I know, it's a terrible idea, but it just would have been interesting to play with those kinds of situations. But overall he's also a Warlock which is a niche character class that requires more than just _some_ familiarity with gameplay dynamics. It took me a while before I got the hang of how to use him effectively. That said, I also think Wyll struggled a bit because he's a person of color in a fantasy setting and there are just not a lot of instances where that's normally a thing. Now I'm saying this as a black fella, so I think when most of the writers were gaining perspective on how to include Wyll in certain plot ideas they were mostly likely worried about how to represent his journey without coming off as too cliche. To your point on the accent change: Did they think if he sounded to *urban,* that would reflect badly upon them? Or should they for lack of a better word, _whitewash_ him a bit to make him more palpable to the setting? I didn't really think about any of these things while I played the game. Wyll to me was just... kinda cool but clearly not fun at parties. He was bland but not boring in the least, it just seemed he had his life together even though he was kind of broken. Compared to most of the playable characters he didn't seem to have an inner conflict based on transformation but more on coming to terms with life and how proceed without losing who he was as a person. Again, these are all wonderful things to be explored and I wish there were more opportunities to, but his storyline seemed to be very straight forward and if you diverged there were clearly _better_ choices to be made. Compare that to Shadowheart & Lae'zel who had a big falling out with their personal belief systems. When dealing with those two I was more often conflicted, _should I tell either of these women that their belief system is wrong and they should prefer mine?_ Those choices kept me up at night! I was concerned how my choices in those ladies' lives would ultimately effect them, not so much my own character. With Wyll, I was like. _"easy come, easy go bro,"_ but I didn't feel like they were immediate concerns. Then again, I've only played through once and I have multiple saves with many other character types. BUt yeah, your video was very informative and got me to thinking about Wyll on a level I hadn't previously. I was just happy to see a black character that wasn't necessarily a parody of itself or trying too hard to fit into a stereotype.
Wyll reminds me a little of Cassie, from Animorphs. Pure of heart, seen as incorruptible, but ultimately kind of…boring? I feel like Cassie got off a bit better, but she had 60 (ghostwritten and of varying quality) books to develop in. Idk, I feel like Black representation is so utterly shit that having a generically heroic everyman is still groundbreaking. The issue is, most (white) characters aren’t that now. It’s like the writing for us is delayed by about thirty years, and a good chunk of the time it’s dripping with enough stereotypes to border minstrel. That’s before bringing up sexuality - you have it different than I do, I’m a lesbian, but black american + lgb is an very hot sociopolitical pepper to be born holding. I genuinely really like Wyll, I just wish he had a bit more depth instead of being a human incarnation of a “keep on and carry on” sign.
@@batmansmith7422 Yeah, I feel ya on that. With a lot ot black + lgb characterization it's often, _damned if you do damned if you don't,_ and almost impossible to craft into a story without leaving something out. I'm not unhappy with the attempt though, I'm just sad when folks rant and rave about their favorite character it's almost always never Wyll. Even Lae'Zel, my personal favorite and the first I romanced gets more luv which is wild to me because she's a volcano and doesn't really simmer down until way later. But yeah, the writing for black characters in AAA games is like watching someone walking on a type rope above a pit of spikes. You just keep your fingers crossed hoping the representation doesn't all just come crashing down. The writing is either so careful as not to offend anyone or so outthere it misses the mark.
Hello Mia!!! As a black bisexual man, I absolutely appreciate your video. I agree with almost every single thing you said about Wyll and racism. I personally believe that Larion shouldn't have watered down Wyll character and story. Wyll is my favorite character and favorite romance.❤ Black male characters or black characters in general usually don't get the sweeping romance or epic love story or having a completely noble selfless hero. Usually, the people who are writing us only see us through a lens as you said in your video, white or straight people trying to write black and gay people. Again, thank you so much for creating and being bold enough to make this video. ❤
Who are you talking to? I hope it is me. If so, I don't care about your opinion. If you are not talking to me, you do not get to talk to other people in my comments that way.
early on in my first playthrough i actually thought wyll had the most potential out of almost all the companions. the mizora dynamic made my imagination go crazy. the transformation scene showed they were willing to go deep into the warlock rp. my heart kinda hurts for what his story could have been
This! Right here! He has such a cool introduction and then...crickets. Then in act 3 with all the hells shenanigans, I was waiting, NAY, expecting a Wyll tie in via Mizora. I mean... Come on! Raphael on one side, Mizora on the other, the possibility of convincing Mizora out of allegiance with Zariel! It's all right there to have them fighting for the crown...but instead it's my dad this and my dad that. I wish that conflict (wanting to be good when bound to a devil) went further. What if the player could try to make Wyll's contract their own to save him? What if Raphael sweetens the pot by offering to be Wyll's new (and "better") patron? What if Wyll could break his contract but in doing so actually, properly, BECOME a devil bound to Avernus?? So much potential...so much Astarian...
How to improve Wylls storyline Add the goblin hatred back in so that he continuously loses it in goblins Confront him in act 1 about goblin hatred, hell say he can't explain why due to the pact but will try to chill out Move spike from the goblin camp to moonrise, have the pain priest be the one to be torturing the druid In act 2 add some flaming fist to last light in as well as to the prison cells, they can tell Wyll about where his dad and the asset are located Add spike to moonrise in the prisons, and have Wyll for once do something bad by killing spike regardless of if you say anything or not, if you help him big approval, if you don't stop but don't help big disapproval, if you go against him he leaves you party. There fixed
Astarian and Shadowheart have 14hrs of content Karalch, Gale and Lae'zel have around 12-10. Wyll a MAIN main character a playable character has 8hrs, 4 hrs less than most of the others. Halsin and Minthara have less content and problems with their stories but thats more normal with them being add on companions. Wyll doesn't have this excuse he is integral to the plot with his father being the literal duke of the gate and becoming the next duke if Ulder dies. His content shouldn't have been as bugged as it was in patch 6 he should not have been missing basic dialogue.
The main problem with Wyll compared to the others is that he went through a massive rewrite during development His character in the final game and the one from the Early Access have very little in common and I think this rewrite massively affected the end result of his quest line. Everything about him currently feels like it simply lacked time and probably would have ended a lot better had he been written that way from the beginning or something
A main character having 4 whole hours of content less than the other main characters is something a lot of people have noticed. If you don’t give a fuck why are you even on this video, weirdo?
Eh... Astarion Shadowheart and Lae'zel are all companions that actively change during the game depending on player's actions and decisions. Later in game different variants of those characters all have different scenes, dialogue options and lines. They also behave in different way. Those 14 hours are never accessible in a single playthrough. Never. You have to divide those numbers by different variants of their personality. On the other hand Wyll has no character development and stays the same during the game as the result almost all his content is easily accessible in a single game. Furthermore Wyll has the biggest quest after Shadowheart in the entire game and the biggest number of locations and interesting fights. You have to take Wyll to the boss fight in act2, than he to Gortash coronation, than to the big and difficult underwater prison location, then to the enormous Ansur's dungeon with multiple fight (including the best or one of the best fights in the game). Compare it to the content of other companions. Lae'zel gets only the creche in act 1, Karlach gets only some weak paladins and 1 gortash fight, Astarion has only 1 location in the entire game with a really underwhelming boss fight. Gale has NOTHING - 1 library - that's all the locations that he has in the entire game. The only person that is actually comparable to Wyll is Shadowheart. Taking all this into consideration do you seriously believe it would be fair for Wyll to have the same amount of "content" as Shadowheart 2 personalities or Astarion's 3 while having a significantly bigger quest? Because in reality that would mean that Wyll would have more content than them in every single game, while now the amount is comparable. Wyll fans constantly whine and complain that he should have the same amount of cutscenes as others yet I never see you complaining that other character should have biggers quest that could rival Wyll's. You only ever try to force Wyll on others and make him the main character.
@@sephikong8323 The rewrite has no bearing on him missing basic dialogue options other Origin characters have or the basic inability to allow him to make his own choices on major plot decisions like other Origin characters can, or even respond kindly to him in some circumstances. There's an obvious bias. They have consistently added additional content and scenes - even expanded endings - since the full release and not a single longstanding issue or bug players have been talking about for well over a year was even addressed until earlier this year with the last major patch. And even with the latest new ending his history with Mizora isn't acknowledged, and regardless of whether you like EA or full release Wyll more, it's absurd to see missing. Larian constantly has portrayed themselves as player-supporting devs since their victory tour and simultaneously left Wyll in the dust while knowing these problems, because they literally follow the reddit sub as well as forums and know what players are talking about - they referenced the hornyposting for Durge and Gortash romance content, Bear sex jokes, and other discourse that was out - especially when Larian quit working on DLC and everyone was blaming Hasbro. They have been absolutely quiet about Wyll. They know and their silence is loud.
Another comment for engagement because I want people to see this vid I personally feel like Wyll is dull no matter how hard I try to find him interesting is indeed the lack of his presence in the game. Not a lot of party interaction like Laezel-Shart or Jaheira-Minsk. Wyll is pretty much Karlach's soulmate as the Blade of Avernus ending showcases, their lives are tied together no matter how the story plays out. And yet, apart from the ending cutscene where Karlach is about to blow and Wyll wants to go with her, he doesn't express that comradarie anywhere else. No heart to hearts in cutscenes, all the Karlach getting worse ones are reserved for Tav regardless of whether you're romancing her or not. Karlach and Wyll say lines that indicate they feel bad for each other, but we never truly see them interact, not in the way the other companions do. And it's enraging when you think about what could have been.
Not only that, but his general goodness also makes him come off unemotional. I think for me his being sad at the tiefling party in act 1 was the peak of his characterisation, and I desperately wish there were more moments of him in doubt, upset or mad, but eventually overcoming that. After all, can't have an arc if you don't start in a lower place than you ended up. No conflict, inner or outer, that forces a character to think about their identity and actions, is the definition of boring unfortunately
Thank you for this video. I made a post about more content for Wyll in the official forum, because I love his character. I don't think, he is boring, I just wish, he had more content. He is storywise one of the most important companions and I'm missing reactions for him and about him. He is a noble son and no one apart from Florrick reacts. Not even Gortash, who I would have assume that he might rather address Wyll than Tav and holding his father over him (a bit like Lae'zel and Raphael with the Orphic Hammer). He can't even decide for himself to end the pact or not, the player has to. And his big questline in act 3 (Ansur) is not always recognisable for some players as being part of Wylls quest according to a lot of posts, plus it gets crashed by Empy stealing the spotlight there. I think, that Wyll should be able to make his own decisions, like SHadowheart, Karlach, Gale and Lae'zel. I agree that instead of giving ascended Astarion yet another ending, they should have fixed the companion with the least content first. I love both voice actors for Wyll btw. I played early access and liked first Wylls voice quite a lot. But Theo is doing a stellar job too and he deserves more recognition. Let's hope, that he gets a bit of love with a future update (if there is one), because I agree: the interesting thing is, that he is a fiendlock, which by default should be more ... morally flexible (see Korrilla as another example) and yet he is one of the most morally good characters in the game. And even when you call him out about double standards (when his pact with Mizora is revealed after you encounter Raphael the first time) he gives approval and actually agrees. He is a great character and sadly, I have to agree with you, that he probably would be up there in Cullen or Alistair popularity, if he would be white. Sorry for the novel, but since I'm campaigning for Wyll a bit right now, I was pretty happy this video popped up in my feed. Oh btw: Duke Ravenguard was introduced in Descend to Avernus, the DnD campaign, that is basically the prelude to BG3. Zevlor and the tieflings are survivors from that adventure.
I love Wyll Ravengard and like many others wish he was given a lot more dialogue and agency in the narrative. This is the number of hours of dialogue each character gets after someone data-mined the game: Astarion: 12 hrs 45 mins 37 secs Shadowheart: 12 hrs14 mins 48 secs Gale: 11 hrs 14 mins 27 secs Lae'zel: 10 hrs 58 mins 43 secs Karlach: 10 hrs 23 mins 4 secs Wyll: 8 hrs 29 mins 3 secs Which is a shame that Wyll gets 2-4 hours of less content than everyone else is crazy to me. It doesn't stop there though there are 2 things that grind my gears on this man's plot: 1: Wyll doesn't get to make a big mid-game character-changing choice. You can give Astarion the choice to choose if he ascends and effectively becomes the new Cazador. You can give Shadowheart the choice to kill the Nightsong or turn against Shar AND you can give her the choice to decide what to do with her parents in Act 3. Gale gets to choose if he becomes the God of Ambition through the crown, if he's going to use the Orb to take out the Brain, and if he's going to dip into some Shadowfell magic for more power. Lae'zel gets to choose to turn against Vlaakith and work with Orpheus. Karlach...okay she has a similar problem to Wyll her choice isn't until the end of the game and its to decide if she lives or dies from her heart- its a bit of a nonchoice as she only goes back to Hell to live if an ally (Wyll or Tav/D.Urge) goes with her. Wyll's choice is if he becomes the Blade of Avernus or the Grand Duke at the END of his questline, he is NOT given the choice as to what to do with his contract YOU make that choice for him. 2: You cannot kill or give Mizora some form of punishment for her abuse and manipulation towards Wyll. Every other character gets to one-up, defeat, set back drastically, or kill their abuser except Wyll. Mizora walks out of this game feeling peachy even if you save the Duke and break the Contract in the end. We don't see Mizora getting punished by Zariel for the loss of her Warlock (Likely because she could very easily get another), we don't seem to see her care that Wyll breaks the contract nor does she really seem to care that the Duke is freed- its just not important to her in the end. They try to make this matter in the end by saying "Wyll's gonna hunt Mizora by tracking her through the eye" which is nice and all but we don't get to play that nor do we get to see Mizora's reaction to that knowledge to know if she even thinks its a threat to her. Also incredibly minor thing; This man should have ended the game as a Devotion or Vengeance Paladin in the Epilogue if he break's his contract-losing his Warlock powers- and becomes the Grand Duke (Devotion) or The Blade of Avernus (Vengeance). It makes SO much sense for the type of person Wyll is (related to his ideals), his stats (He has a 10 WIS vs 17 CHA), and his even his goals instead of becoming Ranger. This man can go to Hell to fight fiends and instead of Divine Senses & Divine Smites he picked ...Ranger... I don't understand it. He doesnt' even need a God to follow he just needs to swear the oath to either "Let your word be your promise, Protect the weak, let your honorable deeds be an example" (Devotion) or "Show the wicked no mercy, fight against injustice, and aid those harmed by injustice." (Vengeance) both of these fit Wyll perfectly! Also Glory Paladin for The Blade of The Frontier Wyll who breaks contract- but that's not in the game...
Eh... Astarion Shadowheart and Lae'zel are all companions that actively change during the game depending on players actions and decisions. Later in game different variants of those characters all have different scenes, dialogue options and lines. They also behave in different way. Those 14 hours are never accessible in a single playthrough. Never. You have to divide those numbers by different variants of their personality. On the other hand Wyll has no character development and stays the same during the game as the result almost all his content is easily accessible in a single game. Furthermore Wyll has the biggest quest after Shadowheart in the entire game and the biggest number of locations and interesting fights. You have to take Wyll to the boss fight in act2, than he to Gortash coronation, than to the big and difficult underwater prison location, then to the enormous Ansur's dungeon with multiple fight (including the best or one of the best fights in the game). Compare it to the content of other companions. Lae'zel gets only the creche in act 1, Karlach gets only some weak paladins and 1 gortash fight, Astarion has only 1 location in the entire game with a really underwhelming boss fight. Gale has NOTHING - 1 library - that's all the locations that he has in the entire game. The only person that is actually comparable to Wyll is Shadowheart. Taking all this into consideration do you seriously believe it would be fair for Wyll to have the same amount of "content" as Shadowheart 2 personalities or Astarion's 3 while having a significantly bigger quest? Because in reality that would mean that Wyll would have more content than them in every single game, while now the amount is comparable. Wyll fans constantly whine and complain that he should have the same amount of cutscenes as others yet I never see you complaining that other character should have biggers quest that could rival Wyll's. You only ever try to force Wyll on others and make him the main character. I can get on board with "wyll deserves better writing" and actual character development like he was meant to get in his EA version, but certainly not behind "wyll needs more screen time" If you just give him more screen while leaving him with the same character and biggest quest it wouldn't be fair to other companions.
@@s1b3r11 I find it frustrating that this character has 2-4 hours of less dialogue than others as for repeat playthroughs he won't feel as different or like you're actually seeing something new. I don't mind Wyll's Questine- I only dislike that he's not given the option to choose what to do with his Pact (This could have been fixed by adding one dialogue option for you to choose in the scene and having a backdoor counter to dictate what he chooses) this wouldn't change a single thing in the story and two I'd like to see Mizora get some form of active punishment for her actions- she's Wyll's major antagonist and doesn't feel like she lost- it doesn't seem like she cares. A battle against her would be nice, maybe an option to fight her when you go to Hell would be neat, but I can live without a fight. I'm reminded of how after you beat Raphael you can investigate an Infernal Envisioning Orb to learn that his soul is being devoured by Mephistopheles- That sorta thing is what I'm looking for here, proof that the actions Wyll took in breaking his contract AND saving his father negatively (preferably majorly) impacted Mizora.
@@Finalplayer14I agree that he won't feel as different in repeat playthroughs, but that's because they made him static and unchanging, not because he has less hours of dialogue. Unfortunately Wyll has only one personality and that one personality gets similar hours of content to others in one playthrough but because he is constantly the same he is boring in repeat playthroughs as his content is constantly the same. I think that the problem with him is tied to the core of this character and won't be solved by simply giving him more content. To make him actually interesting and justify giving him as many hours as others have Larian would have to make him more dynamic and create an evil route for him as well as enable the player to influence his personality and moral compass - like with Shart, Astarion, Gale and Lae'zel. It would also make him more nuanced and make playthroughs more different and therefore interesting because as he is now, no matter what you do, he is always the same and has no potential to change in any way shape or form. I would also give him more flaws - it would make him more interesting and conflicted. What funny is that Larian already had quite good plans for Wyll in the EA. He was supposed to be as dynamic as Shart,Astarion and Laezel and have 2 routes either of a power hungry warlock or a guy who becomes a real hero over time. For some reason that I can't understand they changed him later and made him a flawless unchanging hero from the start which stripped him of character development, complexity and nuance. Kinda sad. But I will stand by my point that in order to change it they would have to change Wyll's entire route and personality not give his already existing personality more and more content that will be always accessible in every playthrough. Because he never changes it wouldn't make him more interesting but would in reality give him more content in a playthrough than Shart/Astarion/Lae'zel have because their content is divided between different personalities unlike Wyll's. What he needs according to me is an alternative route. As for his quest I think it's really good. Maybe an additional fight with Mizora could be interesting but since she is his patron it may be difficult from a logistic point of view since she can easily take away his powers...Anyway Wyll's quest is the biggest one after maybe Shart, extremely important to the plot and has plenty of location and good difficult fights. That's why it kinda annoys me how often his fans complains that other companions have additional stuff of their own and get similar additional content in new patches as Wyll. Very often I see comments of some Wyll fans being salty that others are given anything and are not ignored and I find it unfair. Does Wyll have problems? Yes. Does he deserve better? Yes. But I wish other companions got quest that are so big as his and Shart's too. They also deserve it. Gale in the entire game has one little library and no fights whatsoever, Lae'zel has only crèche in act 1 (though I guess you can argue that later fights with the giths are her quest even if she is not necessary to them), Karlach gets only 2 fights and Astarion has only one location and a every easy boss. I just wish that people wanting more story for Will wouldn't just constantly badmouth and shit on other characters and instead admit that while Wyll may need new content - specifically new route- others need a better, more developed quests.
You know what i wished they did with Wyll? I wish his reasoning to do the deal with the devil girl(forgot how to pronounce her name) was a little more selfish. A bit more arrogant. Then when he turns into the devil his personality changes, he becomes more brash more angrier, more "edgelordy" and through your interactions with you, friendly or romantic wise, you get his confidence back, you smooth him out, you make him less arrogant but more confident. I just wish they gave him more flaws before he becomes a sweet boi. He was just too perfect from the start for me. He should have been a good deconstruction from the humble good hero, but instead he just played into the trope.
That's almost literally what Early Access Wyll was like and where his story looked to be headed towards, before very vocal fans complained that they didn't like his attitude, so Larian sped through rewrites close to the launch date.
I also feel like the complaint about Wyll's questline being disconnected from the main plot doesn't hold much water because Astarion's personal quests never connect to the main story & people are obsessed with him regardless because he has tons of content to keep the player invested in him despite that (and because he's a pretty lil white boy but that goes without saying)
When I tell you I WENT INTO A FRENZY when not only did the trial chambers not characterize wyll whatsoever besides the things his father taught him - unlike Shart who reflects on each room in the sharran temple and constantly confronts ppl from her past, but the literal DRAGON HE WAS PROPHESIZED TO AWAKEN TURNED OUT TO BE RELATED TO THE EMPEROR INSTEAD!!!!!!!???????? Not gonna lie I lost all faith in the game after that. I get the Emperor is trying to insert itself into the plot as much as possible, but is it being literally in our head all the time not enough????? Does it need to rob Wyll of even the tiniest droplets of plot he had??? Also ofc the fact that in any point in the story Wyll never has an emotional response to his father being missing OR present, just as well as Ulder himself being completely stone-faced and running out of things to say to or about his son after 1 camp dialogue. I despise the direction Larian is taking with these patches. They should have expanded Wyll to the same level as every other companion before even thinking about shit like adding Halsin, more bad endings, more, even MORE Astarion content?????? I'm honestly so disappointed, act 3 made Larian's credibility plummet in my eyes. I hope I can one day become a modder and give this game what it deserved to have in the first place, from launch.
Really happy to see more people talking about this. Wyll needs more love and the fact that they've been adding changes like uhhhh more Astarion kisses! Or more Alfira! Or more evil endings! etc while ignoring Wyll apart from a couple fixes over the year is shameful. No hate to other characters (I love Astarion and Alfira and pretty much everyone else!) but come on. It's been more than long enough. Give him more content, make him less dependent on Karlach, give him agency when he's about to make the second most important decision in his life. Why can Shadowheart, Karlach and Gale choose their destiny on their own, but not Wyll - a character whose entire story is about that choice being taken away from him? Why does he still lack camp banter and dialogue? Why does he feel like an extension to Karlach's story? He can have so much more and Theo would be amazing at acting and voicing it.
I think Wyll in alpha felt more flawed. In that footage you showed, like you said he's way more bloodthirsty, more concerned with appearances than doing the right thing. He's interesting. I heard they rewrote him because players were not engaging with him enough? Idk. He had a cool pirate vibe going on. He just feels too soy. Not enough spice. You're absolutely right I don't think they wanted any backlash from having a complex black character that has morally grey character traits.
An excellent analysis. I think you're right about old Wyll, in that they might've accidentally stereotyped him a bit and had to roll it back and make him more Hero™. It's sad, because he seemed to have much more interesting flaws and bonds than current Wyll, but I see why it needed to happen. And I agree 100% that you don't really _feel_ anything for his arc until towards the end, when it actually starts to matter a little bit in the grand scheme of things. I wish there was more to it.
I think the thing with the Wyll and Alistair comparison is that it isn't the race that is why Alistair works more, though there is unconcious bias possibly, but it's that Wyll was forced into being Alistair when that wasn't the original plan for the character, at least at that time in the story, unlike Alistair, where Bioware had a plan with him and never compromised it. But imagine if Dragon Age Orgins was an early access game and people complained about Morrigan being too mean and Alistair being too whiny and those character traits being dialed down for the sake of the players, and that is kinda what happend with Baldurs Gate 3. This could be a point in arguing why early access game design can be more detrimental in comparison to games being designed and then released. Dragon Age 4 has 2 new black companions though, which is great.
I think Wyll works much better as a playable character. I like how in order for you to be a good guy as him you have make deal with Mizora on different points of the story, ruining his life in one way or the other, which highlights the sacrifices you have to still make in order to be a *good* person I wish this the game would play more into the theme of tempting him to become evil using ways like these Edit: i guess its already been sais
Reality is that people were bound to complain for the sole reason that he is the only main black character in the game. Back in EA people were already talking about how "boring" he was, how they didn't feel like they wanted to play his story line as much as the other characters'. People were also complaining to Larian on the other side for making the only black character have "questionable morals" (mind you, all characters at that point were morally gray at best). Then they changed the character completely, and now people are saying they preferred how he was back then, after basically forcing Larian to take the safest possible choice and try and make him an "unhateable" character. I wish Larian stuck to their original vision and made Wyll the flawed, complex character he deserved to be, but I think they got too caught up in the whole "listening to the community" thing, which worked in favor of the game in many ways, but was a detriment to the writing in this case.
I really hate to be that guy, but something really kind of bothers me about Wyll's story. The fact that the black man is the one bound by an entity in such a way that he's essentially enslaved and treated like an animal. I know that wasn't likely the exact vibe they were going for and I don't think Larian are racist (though may have some unchecked biases/overlooks things, but we're all human and change is always possible), but it does have unfortunate implications that never sat right with me. Especially when Wyll and Mizora are shipped together by fans like it's a consensual BDSM dynamic and not a predatory entity who took advantage of a man who from I recall was caught between a rock and a hard place. I also think it isn't looked upon with as much disgust because of the genders of the characters. I know this is a very loaded thing to say, but I think Mizora wouldn't be seen as attractive or alluring if Wyll was a woman and she were a man. I don't say this to dismiss the plight of women in regards to equality or abusive relationships which is a very big issue, but it does seem to me that it may be looked upon as "not that bad" or "sexy" because of that difference. Also the fact that Wyll isn't a conventionally attractive light skin person like Astarion means that he may not be given the same level of sympathy because he doesn't fit within western society's framework of what a victim looks like, nor what a predator/abuser like Mizora looks like. That's my Tedtalk. I just really wanted to get that off my chest and your video hit on some other issues I have with how Wyll's character and story were handled.
Oh no I totally agree with you! It's also important to say that Wyll was... 17, I believe (?) when he made that pact with Mizora, he wasn't a man getting caught up, he was straight up just a child. And then he lost his eye on top of that, so a disabled, disowned, enslaved black child that has to relearn on his own how to fight (having one eye less can impact your fighting quite a lot when it comes to being precise). And yes, you are totally right, Wylls abuse is downplayed because he's a blach man and black peoples pain isn't taken as seriously and because his abuser is a white woman that's considered hot, they don't fit the perfect victim and horrible abuser trope quite as much as Cazador and Astarion.
You could make the same argument for most of the other origins, regarding enslavement. Cazador, Shar, Mystra, Vaalith, Zariel, Bhaal; they all hold power over the characters in a way that conveys themes akin to slavery/abuse. You may be overthinking here.
Almost everyone of the Origin companions was either brainwashed or enslaved by an abuser, I dont understand your statement that Wyll is "the one" to be in that position. Hes just the only one that we happen to see interact with his abuser at multiple points in the game. Your criticisms of how the players view the dynamic are valid, but I dont think it was something that was poorly handled by Larian.
I don’t know if you have ever played Metal Gear Solid 5 but there’s a mechanic in that game where the more bad deeds you do the more the horn on the main character “Venom” Snake’s head grows. They could have done something like that in this but the opposite where every good deed Wyll does his horns grow instead of starting off huge from the beginning. That way you can have some conflict as the player where you can have Wyll make the right decisions but you’re forcing him to look more like a monster.
I think one reason Wyll is boring to me is that his screen time just doesn't really have any super impressive moments. Shadowheart has the prism and her Nightsong cutscene is so iconic. Lae'zel does a super cool flip over your head in the first few minutes of the game, and then later introduces you to Gith'yanki society and Vlaakith. Karlach is absolutely yoked and destroys an entire inn with fire immediately after you recruit her. Wyll's story and arc seem to mostly happen *to* him, rather than he himself doing anything cool on screen (other than shanking 1 goblin). I wish he could've been shown Eldritch Blasting someone off a cliff or using his experience as a noble to get you into a ballroom or something. I want to see him really show off his skill set the way the other companions do.
@@FinalOven_Mint Not a huge Astarion fan actually, though I do like Neil's acting. Would have been cool to see him do something impressive as well before act 3.
My main issue with Wyll is that I preferred his early access version. I added him onto my team on my first ever playthrough of the EA because he had such a vested interest in making the goblins pay; his Act 1 quest essentially was defeating the goblins and saving the tieflings, something a lot more tied into the main plot. I still like the Wyll we have, but I do sometimes lament what could have been. Same thing with the Dream Visitor vs the Dream Guardian, I was just more interested in the early access version.
I don't think wyll's lack of hours is the problem its more like hes treated as the generic protag do-gooder but larian had to account for him being a companion and not mc so his cool plot stuff becomes everyones main plot stuff e.g saving duke ulder, ansur, mizora rescue in the mind flayer colony. Also to compound this point the eventually adding of durge pushed him even further away from his natural mc spot
im only 20 minutes in but this is a fantastic video so far. There's obviously been a lot of shallow observations about Wyll over the last year but you've already raised some real and interesting points without raising any fake outrage for an overall still loveable character and wonderful game. subbed :)
I also wish we got a more complex look into Wyll’s relationship with his father. Wyll was practically disowned for taking up his contract with Mizora in order to save the city his father presided over, yet he was cast out for his actions and punished for simply doing good. Even with these actions of his father, Wyll is very forgiving. It is not his forgiveness that perturbed me, but the lack of complexity into understanding why he was so willing to give it so quickly. We can infer through several moments in Wyll’s dialogue that his father instilled key tenants of justice and good into him, seemingly prioritising creating a ‘noble’ son over having a good relationship with him. There was very little allowance for unique development beyond being just and moral. Wyll still holds himself to these tenants, demonstrating just how instilled they are. He absolutely believes in them too, but I think we need to look deeper into why he is so morally good. How much of it is his core character and how much of it was placed on him by a father shaping a young man? When we rescue Ulder from the Iron Throne, the conflict between him and Wyll feels remarkably uncomplex. Wyll gives seemingly blind forgiveness to his father, and I don’t think this is explored enough. Why does he feel the need to continually please his father even after being cast out as a teenager? Now of course I may be reading far too much into select pieces of dialogue, and I may just be latching on to Wyll’s story because I relate to many aspects of it, but I can’t help but feel that the game didnt explains Wyll’s motivations and relationships enough.
I really do think the rewrite was a mistake. They could have taken another pass and ironed out some of his more egregious faults from the beta without cutting his inner conflict. As is, he may be a more likable character in the full release (hell, I still like what we got), but absolutely would have been a more memorable one if they kept some of the beta version's faults to make a proper arc for him.
my first playthrough I was a human bard and fixated on Halsin, therefore not romancing monogamous characters to simplify things, and I didn't talk to Gortash, I snuck into the city, and I did the whole Iron Throne quest before going back to talk to Gortash, and then obviously Ulder was there and I didn't want to kill him so I killed everyone else, knocked him out, and fled. Then the game was bugged as hell in regard to Mizora and Wyll and I was like, this sucks but I don't want to go back, so after I finished that playthrough I started a Wyll origin to romance Karlach, but then I started a storm sorcerer to romance Gale because I saw something somewhere about Gale and I had to know, and I haven't finished that one either, I'm busy, etc, I have a graveyard of saves from months ago now... Anyway, I'm bummed that Wyll has been neglected, I was so excited to get into all his lore when I started that origin game
I just finished my fourth time beating the game, replayed my first character I rushed through during the 3-day grace period last year, the first time I had gone for Gale because he showed the first interest in my character. I went with Wyll this time and was delighted. I feel he had the best feel for me and the character, though I have only romanced Gale, Astarion, Karlach, and Wyll so far. I enjoyed most everything about Wyll's romance, even going to Avernus to find a way to fix Karlach. It felt like a brave adventure my character and he would go on - yet I can agree that Wyll feels rushed? I had no idea about the previous incarnation and that sounds interesting in a different way, while Wyll himself feels like an overcorrection in another way. In the TTRPG scene there is a constant of Paladins being "Lawful Stupid" and it has come to be that Warlocks are just "evil assholes" even with backstories like Wyll's of not wanting the Pact. I think Wyll (haven't ever played with Minthara yet) was a correction of this, to show a Warlock can be undeniably good even with an Infernal Pact. Like you mentioned with people writing what they don't know it feels much more is given to Wyll as a Warlock than a black man, or hells, a Devil in human skin!
In my headcanon, wyll is the main character and protagonist, he spares Karlach. He saves balder's gate and his father wants him to be grandduke but having fallen in love with Karlach he leaves to avernus after pleading with her to save her life and he takes on the role of the blade of avernus and swears to help Karlach to get vengeance for what they did to her. Added layer, he multiclasses into a paladin or sword-bard early on. taking advantage of his depowered state as a result of being infected and uses it as an opportunity to become powerful through his own effort and not through the pact so that he can confront mizora when the time comes to save the duke and telling her to shove it, he doesn't need her power anymore
I actually have a different look on Wyll. I like his story arc. Don't get me wrong. I think he's a wonderful character who's just as worthy of romance as anyone. I think the only reason why people find him boring is simple. With his character, he offers stability (with the exception of Minthara), while others prefer instability. As far as the other characters go, they offer adventure and the next good time. In real life, people often prefer that compared to a stable relationship which I think is foolish. That's just my take on it, of course.
I’ll be honest, bg3 is one of my favorite games. The reason it isn’t my favorite? The treatment of Wyll. It rubs me the wrong way. I wanted to romance Wyll, tried, waited for the romance update…nothing. Waited for patch 7…nothing. Wyll should be the most important character to the plot, being the most connected to baldurs gate. I mean, they couldn’t even make a different hairstyle for him, he has the worst everything style wise, story wise, etc. but I only see people talking about what he could’ve been on a select few tiktoks
In my first playthrough, I was romancing Astarion but somehow triggered the dancing scene with Wyll. I felt so guilty rejecting him that Wyll was my only romance in my second playthrough. I rejected Halsin and Astarion for him in that playthrough!!!
loved the linguistic perspective you were able to provide on this topic, it wasn’t an area i found to be well discussed so this was an important part of the conversation id never considered! thanks for the hard work, this is great
I can see why people are disappointed that Wyll is less edgy but I'm not one of them. Wyll is a cinnamon bun and I like that he's corny and romantic; but I do very much wish they gave him more to do in the first two acts.
The sad thing about Wyll is that he had so much potential! I don't believe every character needs to undergo a major arc to be liked but his passiveness placed him kinda... just there. The prospect of a morally good Warlock is very intriguing and while he has no regrets, he does wish to get out of his contract. His good character only feels lacking due to lack of content. Like Wyll interacting and responding to events in the world around him. Two commenters made some points about how his background could have been utilized or his transformation to a tiefling essentially could have been integrated to his story and his interactions with the other tieflings. He gets so little for what could have been so much more. Another thing that irks me is his lack of agency. When you are at the Shadowfell you have the option to not intervene and let Shadowheart make her choice on how to proceed. Why doesn't Wyll get that kind of agency when the major ultimatum of saving his father vs keeping the contract comes up? Why do we make that choice for him? Of course Tav can influence him but he gets absolutely zero say in anything that happens around him. He just rolls with everything the player does. And his quest line was so haphazard. Astarion's story line has nothing to do with the main story. Like, remove Astarion completely and he doesn't influence the main story whatsoever. Wyll's quest didn't need to have a major impact in the main story to be a good and compelling one, like Astarion's. It was just all over tha place and doesn't even feel like it impacts the main story so much. Whn i look at Wyll i see a lot of "what could have beens" and so much potential! Like, morality dilemmas, the hypocrisy of defending tieflings but dreading looking like one of them, exploration of father and son relationships, political intrigue. I love Prince Charming Wyll, and as much as i want to hope it's not internalized racism that has made Larian neglect him, it's hard to avoid that the only underwritten character in the party is the one with melanin. He's thriving in my head-cannons!
Thank you so much Mia! First of, I think he deserves way more content. Minthara does too, Both my absolute fave companions UGH why do my Favoriten have the least content
I absolutely adore and love wyll I wish they gave him more care an attention. Wyll wouldn’t do this to his characters I think Theo did a great job but the original voice actor gave wyll more spice i really liked the way he spoke but I’ll forever be a wyll lover
Just to let you know MLE dialect expands beyond London to other Southern working class towns and is not limited to black persons. I'm a white immigrant, grew up in a working multicultural class town and everyone around some growing up spoke with mle.
A really great video, I wish Larian could see this. As much as I love them and BG3, seeing them constantly ignore comments related to Wyll and his lack of content is very disheartening. I understand why rewriting him very far into development would cause problems but 7 patches later and they still barely talk about him. I hoped for DLC or a definitive edition that would iron out the issues you highlighted. Wyll's treatment doesn't surprise me anymore, just look at Larian's dev team. Maybe if they had more POC they'd handle his story better 🤷🏾I want to love Wyll but he's just too overshadowed in a cast of (origin) characters with very compelling stories. It also sucks because BG3 is often praised for diversity but (and again I really fucking love this game!) I don't think it is *that* diverse. There's other odd choices (Cazador leaning into the yellow peril trope, the few plus size characters being evil etc) that really make me raise an eyebrow. The gaming sphere can still be very toxic so any mention of perceived -isms/-phobias tends to be handled poorly by a large chunk of the player base. Racism isn't just segregation and screaming the n-word; covert racism is real and pretty much woven into society. I don't bring up things things to slander Larian but rather because I love the game so much :(
Yeah I always found Cazador's design kind of iffy, especially since he kidnaps a white character into sexual slavery. And the fact that so many grotesque villains are plus sized but our player characters can't be depresses me so much, you'd think in 2023 you could have a fat protag
Ive always felt bad for Wyll. I want to like Him as much as the rest of the party but He just doesn't have as much at stake. Though I honestly feel the same with Karlach and Gale to an extent. Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Astarion definitely feel like they are the more fleshed out and complex of the 6 main companions. Wyll needed more love and I really wish they kept that moral complexity from the prerelease. The goodest boy thing is fine, but it's just boring. I would have been nice to also see Him interacting with the party more. Like outside of Karlach He doesn't have any close dynamics with the others outside of some small talk and reactions. Like I think I could be interesting if Wyll didn't trust Astarion because He's a vampire spawn but eventually tries to help guide Astarion towards handling His past in a more healthy way. Or if Wyll took some time to comfort Gale. If they had to go the route of Wyll being the true lawful good guy then I'd want Him to be the glue that holds everyone together. That He sticks His head out more for everyone and tries to keep everyone focused. It would also be nice if Wyll's backstory and plot were given some actual fan fare. If something happened that was connected to It. I want Him to have more to do because I like Wyll! Hell make Him secretly really kinky and give the horny people something to chew on. Like anything please! (That was a joke, unless 👀) Wyll needs the love.
Hi there! Just found your channel and love your videos! I actually love Wyll and my current dnd character I’m planning to play is lowkey based on him Hihi. Anyways, I would really love to see this channel grow so maybe I would make the text on your thumbnails a little bigger as to make it more catchy! Hope this helps and can’t wait to see what you post in the future :-)
If you are an Oathbreaker Paladin and reach level 17 (yes, that requires mods) then you can use Control Undead on Ansur and get yourself a pet dragon. Unfortunately he has 0 movement speed and won't follow you anywhere useful. You can take him to the Rivington and South Span Waypoints only.
Great video, very informative! I think I would have liked him better if he was morally grey and had that interesting and complex background... However. If you think that you can't have a gay morally grey character in the year of our Lord 2023 then what is Astarion
Thanks for pointing out to me that Wyll is white. I actually never quite realized. In the world of elves and tieflings and what not, his colour of skin seem to matter little.
I'm black, I don't see any of these issues uniquely as a baldurs gate issue or black chracter issue, I think its mostly people trying their hardest to not offend and making the characters safe and boring or plain unlikable. Forewarning a lot of these characters do have nuance that makes them interesting but if im bored at my first couple interactions how can you expect me to keep you on my team long term. Abrasive no nonsense characters who clash with other characters too often. I'll be honest though I never play a game without one of these in my team. Vivienne (DA:I) Pallegina (POE) Ekundayo (PK) - becomes irrelevant after the troll part and you have to help this guy (the PK version of goblin slayer) overcome the death of his family and become a normal guy (boring!) The totally good guy because god forbid we see a black person do anything evil or morally questionable. Wyll (BG3) Sosiel (PWR) Seelah (PWR) Blueblood (XCS) A funny thing a lot of these writers do is make them come from upper class families so i cant relate to them. Wyll (BG3) Blueblood (XCS) Characters I actually like. Trever (PWR) Hes a fuck up in the best way possible, a character who has sufferd a lot and with the help of his brother is rescued from literal hell. Hes a reflection of the awful world he has endured and he sounds and looks metal as hell. Sarevok (BG) Giga evil, looks badass and has a badass voice, narratively potent, also can change over time and become a good person. BG games made a lot of cool black people hes just my fav. Also its not relevant but I though it might be nice for non black people to notice. If you ever see a black female character in a game she will not be romanceable. If a black character is in a game they will not be a stealthy cool guy and most definitley wont be a thief/rogue class.
It's even worse if you play the game like how I do where you're literally Wyll but actually cool and a badass, still a do gooder but with presence that he sorely lacks
That’s on the audience, not the developers. Early access data showed that most people preferred all the other companions - Larian was just giving us more of what we wanted.
@@francisco646 They should not be so reliant on audience response that major characters are neglected. If Wyll is the least popular character, fine. But there should be a finished and fleshed out story for him on release regardless of popularity because its meant to be a finished game
"Well, Wyll is black, that's a part of his character." Is it, though? Is it really? Nothing about his personality or background in BG3 is in any way related to his skin colour. His skin colour has absolutely no role in BG3, he doesn't face racism (in the game) because of it, his socio-economic status isn't influenced by it, and his culture and upbringing isn't any different from that of a white noble man from Baldur's Gate. So no, I wouldn't say that him being black is a part of his character. Larian could have made him white or brown or swarthy and absolutely noting about his character would change except for his physical looks. His skin colour might come with a lot of baggage in our world, but it clearly doesn't have that baggage in the world of Faerun. I have no issue with that personally, it's just an observation. If anything, it does hit on a different but related issue I have with the Forgotten Realms setting, which is that humanity is more or less just a very culturally homogenous species. The more exotic cultures are typically reserved for the elves, dwarves, orcs, drow, you name it, and even there Wizards of the Coasts has been working really hard to dismantle those cultural differences due to the woke left accusing them of racism (for example them claiming that orcs are "black coded" and therefor their portrayal is racist towards black people; an opinion which is in and of itself hilariously racist if you think about it). Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. I actually do like Wyll.
You can't reason with these people, don't even try. They get a minority character with zero stigma or correlation to the real world and they still find something to sperg about beacuse the accent he uses in a fictional world "means something else" in the real world lmao
@@humuhumu776 How does the youtuber in question seem unreasonable? If she was so, why would your comments still be up? The only person "sperg"ing, seems to be you.
Wyll is a hard character to judge. I'd like to have him more gameplay hours because I always include him in my party. But he's LAAAAAAME. I only carry him around because warlocks are good. A monogamous flawlessly good boy is so boooring. He is mid only because Lae'Zel exists
idk I liked wyll's story, and I liked him more than Astarion., though i guess if you respec astarion to warlock he's probably more enjoyable with his quips and stuff. but wyll was always in my party in my playthru, with gale and shadowheart
@@mialikesmovies I did that with druid! so basically 3 casters lol. kinda dumb but if there's magic in a game I'm using magic haha. but well, druid is kinda melee using wildshape I wanna try another playthrough soon as a monk though that one seems fun
@@mialikesmovies Wyll works really well as a warlock/melee multiclass, especially after his act 2 decision. And yes, I do love to go down the paladin route with him (Vengeance), because he is just unstoppable as a lockadin.
Wyll getting benched in my playthrough really just came down to him being the exact same class as my Tav, and that by the time I found out how Withers' respec works I'd grown attached to my go-to party. I figured, just like the similarly benched Gale, that I would just bring him out when I found something related to him. They both stayed benched until Act 3.
*Wyll gets transformed* Me: "Cool" Wyll: "Omg I look like a monster, people are gonna freak out! What cruel punishmnent D'x" Tieflings which are a normal part of society: 👀
I played this game 7hrs straight today.......I do not like it. I have 20hrs in total, still dont like it. I'm forcing myself to play it because I bought it...am I cooked?
The fact that you and other people are trying to make this about race complete destroys any point you were trying to make. When at any point in the story is skin color even brought up, as a mixed black man I’m tired of people like you trying spark weird debates like this and bring skin color into the matter. When it’s not even related to wylls core issues. 🤦♂️
And let’s be honest minthara has less content and still ends up being better than Wyll if you think giving him a few more hours of content would’ve saved him from being boring you’re dead wrong.
That. Exactly that. Wyll deserves better writing and having actual character development not more boring content to force everybody into liking him... The problem is quality, not quantity. What is sad is that he was supposed to have actual character arc and development in the original plans and EA but for some reason they changed him...
Two minutes twelve seconds in and yes, you’ve invalidated your opinion. Except it has nothing to do with your skin colour, and everything with the words you said thus far.
Imagine making a nearly hour long video crying about how one of the better written black male characters in a video game is racist. You people literally cannot be happy with anything.
This game is not exempt from criticism. I'm not sure what "you people" is referring to either, because Mia is white, but you are evidently not coming into this discussion with an open mind. If you are not black then this is not something you're really qualified to dismiss. And even if you were black, no people group is a monolith, so people might have issues with things you find okay. There are some questionable things involved with the writing, development, and utilization of this character in the story and among the fanbase, and analyzing those things is not a bad thing to do. Stay blessed.
@@Al-qo2gg First and foremost, I never said that the game is exempt from criticism, but as someone who has been gaming for 30 years and has seen some pretty bad representations of black people over the years, Wyll is far from the worst black people could do in terms of representation. And "you people" has nothing to do with race, so I think you kinda exposed yourself a little bit by immediately jumping to race. There is a reason why the term "mulatto" is part of my username. Yes, I am half-black and while I don't speak for all black people, I think I am a better mouthpiece for black people than this uppity white savior whore using leftist buzzwords.
being better written than many other black male characters doesn't automatically mean he's written perfectly. his entire story is about serving another against his will and his choice being taken away from him, yet in the moment when he's finally able to choose his own destiny, it's the player than decides for him, while other characters decide their own fate. It's shameful. That's not to mention he literally lacks hours of content compared to other origins while fan favorites like Halsin who wasn't even supposed to be a camp follower get updates and fixes. Ignoring that means reinforcing the opinion that simply adding a black character is enough to appeal to your audiences, which is obviously not the case.
@@laeti8434 Did I say he was written perfectly? No. Like all characters, he is going to have aspects that either do not resonate with all who interact with him or otherwise have flaws. Also, it's a fucking video game. Plenty of other characters, including Karlach, Gale, and Lae'zel have important decisions in their stories decided for them by the PC. This is not a Wyll specific issue. This is an aspect of video games in which you give the player choices and consequences. If you are so concerned with how Wyll's story plays out, you can always play AS him. The fact that you assume Wyll was only included in the game for "diversity reasons" really concerns me. Wyll is not my favorite character, but I enjoyed his story and the fact that you think he was just included because "black guy" speaks volumes about how much of a racist you are.
@@laeti8434 Gotta love my initial comment being deleted. Here it is again. Did I say he was written perfectly? No. Like all characters, he is going to have aspects that either do not resonate with all who interact with him or otherwise have flaws. Also, it's a fucking video game. Plenty of other characters, including Karlach, Gale, and Lae'zel have important decisions in their stories decided for them by the PC. This is not a Wyll specific issue. This is an aspect of video games in which you give the player choices and consequences. If you are so concerned with how Wyll's story plays out, you can always play AS him. The fact that you assume Wyll was only included in the game for "diversity reasons" really concerns me. Wyll is not my favorite character, but I enjoyed his story and the fact that you think he was just included because "black guy" speaks volumes about how much of a racist you are.
My Tav and team accidentally made Wyll an enemy at the Grove fight against the goblins. We killed him, and since this was my 3rd playthrough, I thought someone in the Grove would be mad at us. Nope. Nothing. No one acknowledged Wyll's existence despite being a Folk Hero to the Tieflings...
I recently saw a Short on RUclips that perfectly summed up Wylls situation. "I'm going to sacrifice my entire life to protect those people" "But which one of them is ready to sacrifice their life for you?"
@@daskaninchenThat’s why I love Wyll so much though. He is truly, undeniably, a good person. I mean no one has a perfect set of morals, but Wyll is genuinely altruistic. And in real life, or fiction, seeing a man be as good as he can be, because he feels like no one else will, is always something I can just fall in love with.
Was looking for Wyll mods (because there's a pretty hair mod for him) and I found mods that turned him white (and his dad too) which takes the fun out of modding sometimes as a black person.
Ah yeah lets talk to space aliens and cast fireball from thin air but god forbid we add a black person in a game.
Its so rancid
That's atrocious - I'm so sorry to hear it
I knew there was "anti woke" mods that took out the LGBT content so I can't say I am surprised.
If it was on Nexus, you can and should report it because they have a policy to remove mods that make a deliberate effort to remove diversity. They removed a mod that made Aylin a man for that reason.
Damn that sucks. I bet there aren't any mods to turn white chars black.
Wyll Ravengard I love you more than Larian Studios ever will and I apologize for that
Y'all really concerning with how you act towards a fictional character
@@TheFuriousMulattoWant some peanut butter with all that jelly?
You haven’t seen the way Astarion fans act have you? 💀
society if Wyll's backstory when he made a pact with Mizora was actually animated in a nice cinematic like Shadowheart's flashback was >>>>>
Tbh animating Tiamat would be pretty complicated/quite a bit of effort. We're talking about a god here
I want Wyll helping you schmooze with nobles in the Upper City. I want more people recognizing Wyll and asking him what in the hells happened to him. I want more ramifications to Mizora’s meddling - shopkeepers being fed lies like Florrick was, maybe. I want Wyll investigating the political dealings of Cazador and Gortash, he’s our best suited companion even if he has horns. I want the tieflings interacting with him after his transformation, imagine the character moment for both him and Zevlor if the latter gave him a dressing down for being a big baby about his horns, when it’s all the tieflings have ever known. Total missed opportunity for class awareness for the self proclaimed Blade, and I’m SURE it was part of the potential trajectory for EA Wyll. He never gets over his transformation, either. He has sadboy moments in act 1 and a couple jokes/lack of recognition from other characters, and that’s it. He’s not even monstrous! Sure, some of that could be the fault of the devs not wanting the ONE brown person in the main party to look visibly monstrous, but they stripped him of his personality instead. Like, the game’s good, and where the writing shines it shines, and it’s nice seeing the occasional woman in power, though it still follows the “one woman per powerful team” rule, and while some of the skimpy armor men can wear, there’s still a serious discrepancy, and on and on and on. Basically, the game’s good. But it’s still been dunked in racism and sexism, and as a black woman I 😢 + want better for our collective fave Warlock.
Wyll has main character energy, he’s the only character whose origin story I played.
To me Wyll has the issue of being too perfect.
The gang you travel with all have issues character-wise. Made mistakes, have trauma. And then there is Wyll. He has problems to deal with but is a stable and friendly character, he made a hard decision but did the right thing.
There is hardly any growth he can go through. I really like Wyll and romanced him but he sometimes feels stale in a game.
Evil ends also dont really make sense with him. Nothing drives him that way.
I love Wyll. He’s my all-time bromance. His warrior-poet musings and unwavering goodness are to me GOOD qualities. I do think him AND Karlach suffer from a lack of personal change. The world changes around them and they react. I do wish Wyll revealed some complexities of bloodlust or arrogance or even insecurity for a dark middle of his arc.
He feels sort of “finished” when we first meet him, like BG3 is the sequel to the Wyll focused game.
Wyll to me plays as ultimate boy scout, sorta like Captain America or Superman. He doesn't let the world get him down, he still sees hope in things despite his situation. Even when Mizora tricked him into his situation she doesn't seem fully committed in bringing him down. In D&D if you don't do what your patron wants you to do, that typically doesn't work out well for your character. But Mizora kinda goes easy on him (for a devil), even though she's evil, she's just not fully committed to having him totally outright killed due to his moral compass. It's like she'd rather have him around just for someone to talk to or argue against (Or to torture more). I feel that relationship should have been explored more and was rife with _interesting_ takes on what could have happened.
Like imagine if it were an option for Wyll to romance her? I know, it's a terrible idea, but it just would have been interesting to play with those kinds of situations. But overall he's also a Warlock which is a niche character class that requires more than just _some_ familiarity with gameplay dynamics. It took me a while before I got the hang of how to use him effectively. That said, I also think Wyll struggled a bit because he's a person of color in a fantasy setting and there are just not a lot of instances where that's normally a thing. Now I'm saying this as a black fella, so I think when most of the writers were gaining perspective on how to include Wyll in certain plot ideas they were mostly likely worried about how to represent his journey without coming off as too cliche.
To your point on the accent change: Did they think if he sounded to *urban,* that would reflect badly upon them? Or should they for lack of a better word, _whitewash_ him a bit to make him more palpable to the setting? I didn't really think about any of these things while I played the game. Wyll to me was just... kinda cool but clearly not fun at parties. He was bland but not boring in the least, it just seemed he had his life together even though he was kind of broken. Compared to most of the playable characters he didn't seem to have an inner conflict based on transformation but more on coming to terms with life and how proceed without losing who he was as a person.
Again, these are all wonderful things to be explored and I wish there were more opportunities to, but his storyline seemed to be very straight forward and if you diverged there were clearly _better_ choices to be made. Compare that to Shadowheart & Lae'zel who had a big falling out with their personal belief systems. When dealing with those two I was more often conflicted, _should I tell either of these women that their belief system is wrong and they should prefer mine?_ Those choices kept me up at night! I was concerned how my choices in those ladies' lives would ultimately effect them, not so much my own character.
With Wyll, I was like. _"easy come, easy go bro,"_ but I didn't feel like they were immediate concerns. Then again, I've only played through once and I have multiple saves with many other character types. BUt yeah, your video was very informative and got me to thinking about Wyll on a level I hadn't previously.
I was just happy to see a black character that wasn't necessarily a parody of itself or trying too hard to fit into a stereotype.
Wyll reminds me a little of Cassie, from Animorphs. Pure of heart, seen as incorruptible, but ultimately kind of…boring? I feel like Cassie got off a bit better, but she had 60 (ghostwritten and of varying quality) books to develop in. Idk, I feel like Black representation is so utterly shit that having a generically heroic everyman is still groundbreaking. The issue is, most (white) characters aren’t that now. It’s like the writing for us is delayed by about thirty years, and a good chunk of the time it’s dripping with enough stereotypes to border minstrel. That’s before bringing up sexuality - you have it different than I do, I’m a lesbian, but black american + lgb is an very hot sociopolitical pepper to be born holding. I genuinely really like Wyll, I just wish he had a bit more depth instead of being a human incarnation of a “keep on and carry on” sign.
@@batmansmith7422 Yeah, I feel ya on that. With a lot ot black + lgb characterization it's often, _damned if you do damned if you don't,_ and almost impossible to craft into a story without leaving something out. I'm not unhappy with the attempt though, I'm just sad when folks rant and rave about their favorite character it's almost always never Wyll. Even Lae'Zel, my personal favorite and the first I romanced gets more luv which is wild to me because she's a volcano and doesn't really simmer down until way later. But yeah, the writing for black characters in AAA games is like watching someone walking on a type rope above a pit of spikes.
You just keep your fingers crossed hoping the representation doesn't all just come crashing down. The writing is either so careful as not to offend anyone or so outthere it misses the mark.
"Person of color" 😂
Enjoyed this. Wyll definitely is underappreciated among the companions. Well done essay.
Commenting to feed the RUclips gods.
thank you for watching!!!
Hello Mia!!!
As a black bisexual man, I absolutely appreciate your video. I agree with almost every single thing you said about Wyll and racism.
I personally believe that Larion shouldn't have watered down Wyll character and story. Wyll is my favorite character and favorite romance.❤
Black male characters or black characters in general usually don't get the sweeping romance or epic love story or having a completely noble selfless hero. Usually, the people who are writing us only see us through a lens as you said in your video, white or straight people trying to write black and gay people.
Again, thank you so much for creating and being bold enough to make this video. ❤
Thank you for being here!!!! I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!!!!
@mialikesmovies You're welcome, Mia! Also, I definitely hit subscriber.
Bro you really are the biggest stereotype ever lmao
Who are you talking to? I hope it is me. If so, I don't care about your opinion. If you are not talking to me, you do not get to talk to other people in my comments that way.
@@mialikesmovies Bless you Mia! But losers like him don't deserve our attention.❤
early on in my first playthrough i actually thought wyll had the most potential out of almost all the companions. the mizora dynamic made my imagination go crazy. the transformation scene showed they were willing to go deep into the warlock rp.
my heart kinda hurts for what his story could have been
Yes! I was so excited when the warlock reveal happened and then they just let his story go unfinished and underdeveloped its so sad
This! Right here! He has such a cool introduction and then...crickets. Then in act 3 with all the hells shenanigans, I was waiting, NAY, expecting a Wyll tie in via Mizora. I mean... Come on! Raphael on one side, Mizora on the other, the possibility of convincing Mizora out of allegiance with Zariel! It's all right there to have them fighting for the crown...but instead it's my dad this and my dad that. I wish that conflict (wanting to be good when bound to a devil) went further. What if the player could try to make Wyll's contract their own to save him? What if Raphael sweetens the pot by offering to be Wyll's new (and "better") patron? What if Wyll could break his contract but in doing so actually, properly, BECOME a devil bound to Avernus?? So much potential...so much Astarian...
How to improve Wylls storyline
Add the goblin hatred back in so that he continuously loses it in goblins
Confront him in act 1 about goblin hatred, hell say he can't explain why due to the pact but will try to chill out
Move spike from the goblin camp to moonrise, have the pain priest be the one to be torturing the druid
In act 2 add some flaming fist to last light in as well as to the prison cells, they can tell Wyll about where his dad and the asset are located
Add spike to moonrise in the prisons, and have Wyll for once do something bad by killing spike regardless of if you say anything or not, if you help him big approval, if you don't stop but don't help big disapproval, if you go against him he leaves you party.
There fixed
this is not fixed at all, lack of angst and moral grey isn't the problem.
in fact this is an entirely separate character you're building here, and building poorly might I add
Astarian and Shadowheart have 14hrs of content Karalch, Gale and Lae'zel have around 12-10. Wyll a MAIN main character a playable character has 8hrs, 4 hrs less than most of the others. Halsin and Minthara have less content and problems with their stories but thats more normal with them being add on companions. Wyll doesn't have this excuse he is integral to the plot with his father being the literal duke of the gate and becoming the next duke if Ulder dies. His content shouldn't have been as bugged as it was in patch 6 he should not have been missing basic dialogue.
The main problem with Wyll compared to the others is that he went through a massive rewrite during development
His character in the final game and the one from the Early Access have very little in common and I think this rewrite massively affected the end result of his quest line.
Everything about him currently feels like it simply lacked time and probably would have ended a lot better had he been written that way from the beginning or something
Literally no one even notices this other than you weirdos. You would probably scream even if he got 4 seconds less than the rest
A main character having 4 whole hours of content less than the other main characters is something a lot of people have noticed. If you don’t give a fuck why are you even on this video, weirdo?
Eh... Astarion Shadowheart and Lae'zel are all companions that actively change during the game depending on player's actions and decisions. Later in game different variants of those characters all have different scenes, dialogue options and lines. They also behave in different way. Those 14 hours are never accessible in a single playthrough. Never. You have to divide those numbers by different variants of their personality. On the other hand Wyll has no character development and stays the same during the game as the result almost all his content is easily accessible in a single game.
Furthermore Wyll has the biggest quest after Shadowheart in the entire game and the biggest number of locations and interesting fights. You have to take Wyll to the boss fight in act2, than he to Gortash coronation, than to the big and difficult underwater prison location, then to the enormous Ansur's dungeon with multiple fight (including the best or one of the best fights in the game). Compare it to the content of other companions. Lae'zel gets only the creche in act 1, Karlach gets only some weak paladins and 1 gortash fight, Astarion has only 1 location in the entire game with a really underwhelming boss fight. Gale has NOTHING - 1 library - that's all the locations that he has in the entire game. The only person that is actually comparable to Wyll is Shadowheart.
Taking all this into consideration do you seriously believe it would be fair for Wyll to have the same amount of "content" as Shadowheart 2 personalities or Astarion's 3 while having a significantly bigger quest? Because in reality that would mean that Wyll would have more content than them in every single game, while now the amount is comparable. Wyll fans constantly whine and complain that he should have the same amount of cutscenes as others yet I never see you complaining that other character should have biggers quest that could rival Wyll's. You only ever try to force Wyll on others and make him the main character.
@@sephikong8323 The rewrite has no bearing on him missing basic dialogue options other Origin characters have or the basic inability to allow him to make his own choices on major plot decisions like other Origin characters can, or even respond kindly to him in some circumstances. There's an obvious bias.
They have consistently added additional content and scenes - even expanded endings - since the full release and not a single longstanding issue or bug players have been talking about for well over a year was even addressed until earlier this year with the last major patch. And even with the latest new ending his history with Mizora isn't acknowledged, and regardless of whether you like EA or full release Wyll more, it's absurd to see missing.
Larian constantly has portrayed themselves as player-supporting devs since their victory tour and simultaneously left Wyll in the dust while knowing these problems, because they literally follow the reddit sub as well as forums and know what players are talking about - they referenced the hornyposting for Durge and Gortash romance content, Bear sex jokes, and other discourse that was out - especially when Larian quit working on DLC and everyone was blaming Hasbro. They have been absolutely quiet about Wyll. They know and their silence is loud.
The only companion done more dirty than Wyll is Jacob in Mass Effect
Another comment for engagement because I want people to see this vid
I personally feel like Wyll is dull no matter how hard I try to find him interesting is indeed the lack of his presence in the game. Not a lot of party interaction like Laezel-Shart or Jaheira-Minsk. Wyll is pretty much Karlach's soulmate as the Blade of Avernus ending showcases, their lives are tied together no matter how the story plays out. And yet, apart from the ending cutscene where Karlach is about to blow and Wyll wants to go with her, he doesn't express that comradarie anywhere else. No heart to hearts in cutscenes, all the Karlach getting worse ones are reserved for Tav regardless of whether you're romancing her or not. Karlach and Wyll say lines that indicate they feel bad for each other, but we never truly see them interact, not in the way the other companions do. And it's enraging when you think about what could have been.
Not only that, but his general goodness also makes him come off unemotional. I think for me his being sad at the tiefling party in act 1 was the peak of his characterisation, and I desperately wish there were more moments of him in doubt, upset or mad, but eventually overcoming that. After all, can't have an arc if you don't start in a lower place than you ended up. No conflict, inner or outer, that forces a character to think about their identity and actions, is the definition of boring unfortunately
Thank you for this video. I made a post about more content for Wyll in the official forum, because I love his character. I don't think, he is boring, I just wish, he had more content. He is storywise one of the most important companions and I'm missing reactions for him and about him. He is a noble son and no one apart from Florrick reacts. Not even Gortash, who I would have assume that he might rather address Wyll than Tav and holding his father over him (a bit like Lae'zel and Raphael with the Orphic Hammer). He can't even decide for himself to end the pact or not, the player has to. And his big questline in act 3 (Ansur) is not always recognisable for some players as being part of Wylls quest according to a lot of posts, plus it gets crashed by Empy stealing the spotlight there. I think, that Wyll should be able to make his own decisions, like SHadowheart, Karlach, Gale and Lae'zel.
I agree that instead of giving ascended Astarion yet another ending, they should have fixed the companion with the least content first.
I love both voice actors for Wyll btw. I played early access and liked first Wylls voice quite a lot. But Theo is doing a stellar job too and he deserves more recognition.
Let's hope, that he gets a bit of love with a future update (if there is one), because I agree: the interesting thing is, that he is a fiendlock, which by default should be more ... morally flexible (see Korrilla as another example) and yet he is one of the most morally good characters in the game. And even when you call him out about double standards (when his pact with Mizora is revealed after you encounter Raphael the first time) he gives approval and actually agrees. He is a great character and sadly, I have to agree with you, that he probably would be up there in Cullen or Alistair popularity, if he would be white.
Sorry for the novel, but since I'm campaigning for Wyll a bit right now, I was pretty happy this video popped up in my feed.
Oh btw: Duke Ravenguard was introduced in Descend to Avernus, the DnD campaign, that is basically the prelude to BG3. Zevlor and the tieflings are survivors from that adventure.
I love Wyll Ravengard and like many others wish he was given a lot more dialogue and agency in the narrative. This is the number of hours of dialogue each character gets after someone data-mined the game:
Astarion: 12 hrs 45 mins 37 secs
Shadowheart: 12 hrs14 mins 48 secs
Gale: 11 hrs 14 mins 27 secs
Lae'zel: 10 hrs 58 mins 43 secs
Karlach: 10 hrs 23 mins 4 secs
Wyll: 8 hrs 29 mins 3 secs
Which is a shame that Wyll gets 2-4 hours of less content than everyone else is crazy to me. It doesn't stop there though there are 2 things that grind my gears on this man's plot:
1: Wyll doesn't get to make a big mid-game character-changing choice. You can give Astarion the choice to choose if he ascends and effectively becomes the new Cazador. You can give Shadowheart the choice to kill the Nightsong or turn against Shar AND you can give her the choice to decide what to do with her parents in Act 3. Gale gets to choose if he becomes the God of Ambition through the crown, if he's going to use the Orb to take out the Brain, and if he's going to dip into some Shadowfell magic for more power. Lae'zel gets to choose to turn against Vlaakith and work with Orpheus. Karlach...okay she has a similar problem to Wyll her choice isn't until the end of the game and its to decide if she lives or dies from her heart- its a bit of a nonchoice as she only goes back to Hell to live if an ally (Wyll or Tav/D.Urge) goes with her. Wyll's choice is if he becomes the Blade of Avernus or the Grand Duke at the END of his questline, he is NOT given the choice as to what to do with his contract YOU make that choice for him.
2: You cannot kill or give Mizora some form of punishment for her abuse and manipulation towards Wyll. Every other character gets to one-up, defeat, set back drastically, or kill their abuser except Wyll. Mizora walks out of this game feeling peachy even if you save the Duke and break the Contract in the end. We don't see Mizora getting punished by Zariel for the loss of her Warlock (Likely because she could very easily get another), we don't seem to see her care that Wyll breaks the contract nor does she really seem to care that the Duke is freed- its just not important to her in the end. They try to make this matter in the end by saying "Wyll's gonna hunt Mizora by tracking her through the eye" which is nice and all but we don't get to play that nor do we get to see Mizora's reaction to that knowledge to know if she even thinks its a threat to her.
Also incredibly minor thing; This man should have ended the game as a Devotion or Vengeance Paladin in the Epilogue if he break's his contract-losing his Warlock powers- and becomes the Grand Duke (Devotion) or The Blade of Avernus (Vengeance). It makes SO much sense for the type of person Wyll is (related to his ideals), his stats (He has a 10 WIS vs 17 CHA), and his even his goals instead of becoming Ranger. This man can go to Hell to fight fiends and instead of Divine Senses & Divine Smites he picked ...Ranger... I don't understand it. He doesnt' even need a God to follow he just needs to swear the oath to either "Let your word be your promise, Protect the weak, let your honorable deeds be an example" (Devotion) or "Show the wicked no mercy, fight against injustice, and aid those harmed by injustice." (Vengeance) both of these fit Wyll perfectly! Also Glory Paladin for The Blade of The Frontier Wyll who breaks contract- but that's not in the game...
Eh... Astarion Shadowheart and Lae'zel are all companions that actively change during the game depending on players actions and decisions. Later in game different variants of those characters all have different scenes, dialogue options and lines. They also behave in different way. Those 14 hours are never accessible in a single playthrough. Never. You have to divide those numbers by different variants of their personality. On the other hand Wyll has no character development and stays the same during the game as the result almost all his content is easily accessible in a single game.
Furthermore Wyll has the biggest quest after Shadowheart in the entire game and the biggest number of locations and interesting fights. You have to take Wyll to the boss fight in act2, than he to Gortash coronation, than to the big and difficult underwater prison location, then to the enormous Ansur's dungeon with multiple fight (including the best or one of the best fights in the game). Compare it to the content of other companions. Lae'zel gets only the creche in act 1, Karlach gets only some weak paladins and 1 gortash fight, Astarion has only 1 location in the entire game with a really underwhelming boss fight. Gale has NOTHING - 1 library - that's all the locations that he has in the entire game. The only person that is actually comparable to Wyll is Shadowheart.
Taking all this into consideration do you seriously believe it would be fair for Wyll to have the same amount of "content" as Shadowheart 2 personalities or Astarion's 3 while having a significantly bigger quest? Because in reality that would mean that Wyll would have more content than them in every single game, while now the amount is comparable. Wyll fans constantly whine and complain that he should have the same amount of cutscenes as others yet I never see you complaining that other character should have biggers quest that could rival Wyll's. You only ever try to force Wyll on others and make him the main character.
I can get on board with "wyll deserves better writing" and actual character development like he was meant to get in his EA version, but certainly not behind "wyll needs more screen time" If you just give him more screen while leaving him with the same character and biggest quest it wouldn't be fair to other companions.
@@s1b3r11 I find it frustrating that this character has 2-4 hours of less dialogue than others as for repeat playthroughs he won't feel as different or like you're actually seeing something new. I don't mind Wyll's Questine- I only dislike that he's not given the option to choose what to do with his Pact (This could have been fixed by adding one dialogue option for you to choose in the scene and having a backdoor counter to dictate what he chooses) this wouldn't change a single thing in the story and two I'd like to see Mizora get some form of active punishment for her actions- she's Wyll's major antagonist and doesn't feel like she lost- it doesn't seem like she cares. A battle against her would be nice, maybe an option to fight her when you go to Hell would be neat, but I can live without a fight.
I'm reminded of how after you beat Raphael you can investigate an Infernal Envisioning Orb to learn that his soul is being devoured by Mephistopheles- That sorta thing is what I'm looking for here, proof that the actions Wyll took in breaking his contract AND saving his father negatively (preferably majorly) impacted Mizora.
@@Finalplayer14I agree that he won't feel as different in repeat playthroughs, but that's because they made him static and unchanging, not because he has less hours of dialogue. Unfortunately Wyll has only one personality and that one personality gets similar hours of content to others in one playthrough but because he is constantly the same he is boring in repeat playthroughs as his content is constantly the same. I think that the problem with him is tied to the core of this character and won't be solved by simply giving him more content. To make him actually interesting and justify giving him as many hours as others have Larian would have to make him more dynamic and create an evil route for him as well as enable the player to influence his personality and moral compass - like with Shart, Astarion, Gale and Lae'zel. It would also make him more nuanced and make playthroughs more different and therefore interesting because as he is now, no matter what you do, he is always the same and has no potential to change in any way shape or form. I would also give him more flaws - it would make him more interesting and conflicted. What funny is that Larian already had quite good plans for Wyll in the EA. He was supposed to be as dynamic as Shart,Astarion and Laezel and have 2 routes either of a power hungry warlock or a guy who becomes a real hero over time. For some reason that I can't understand they changed him later and made him a flawless unchanging hero from the start which stripped him of character development, complexity and nuance. Kinda sad. But I will stand by my point that in order to change it they would have to change Wyll's entire route and personality not give his already existing personality more and more content that will be always accessible in every playthrough. Because he never changes it wouldn't make him more interesting but would in reality give him more content in a playthrough than Shart/Astarion/Lae'zel have because their content is divided between different personalities unlike Wyll's. What he needs according to me is an alternative route.
As for his quest I think it's really good. Maybe an additional fight with Mizora could be interesting but since she is his patron it may be difficult from a logistic point of view since she can easily take away his powers...Anyway Wyll's quest is the biggest one after maybe Shart, extremely important to the plot and has plenty of location and good difficult fights. That's why it kinda annoys me how often his fans complains that other companions have additional stuff of their own and get similar additional content in new patches as Wyll. Very often I see comments of some Wyll fans being salty that others are given anything and are not ignored and I find it unfair. Does Wyll have problems? Yes. Does he deserve better? Yes. But I wish other companions got quest that are so big as his and Shart's too. They also deserve it. Gale in the entire game has one little library and no fights whatsoever, Lae'zel has only crèche in act 1 (though I guess you can argue that later fights with the giths are her quest even if she is not necessary to them), Karlach gets only 2 fights and Astarion has only one location and a every easy boss. I just wish that people wanting more story for Will wouldn't just constantly badmouth and shit on other characters and instead admit that while Wyll may need new content - specifically new route- others need a better, more developed quests.
You know what i wished they did with Wyll? I wish his reasoning to do the deal with the devil girl(forgot how to pronounce her name) was a little more selfish. A bit more arrogant. Then when he turns into the devil his personality changes, he becomes more brash more angrier, more "edgelordy" and through your interactions with you, friendly or romantic wise, you get his confidence back, you smooth him out, you make him less arrogant but more confident. I just wish they gave him more flaws before he becomes a sweet boi. He was just too perfect from the start for me. He should have been a good deconstruction from the humble good hero, but instead he just played into the trope.
That's almost literally what Early Access Wyll was like and where his story looked to be headed towards, before very vocal fans complained that they didn't like his attitude, so Larian sped through rewrites close to the launch date.
I also feel like the complaint about Wyll's questline being disconnected from the main plot doesn't hold much water because Astarion's personal quests never connect to the main story & people are obsessed with him regardless because he has tons of content to keep the player invested in him despite that (and because he's a pretty lil white boy but that goes without saying)
I think it's mostly the slighty evil sexy vampire thing. A lot of people were fans of Twilight, right?
When I tell you I WENT INTO A FRENZY when not only did the trial chambers not characterize wyll whatsoever besides the things his father taught him - unlike Shart who reflects on each room in the sharran temple and constantly confronts ppl from her past, but the literal DRAGON HE WAS PROPHESIZED TO AWAKEN TURNED OUT TO BE RELATED TO THE EMPEROR INSTEAD!!!!!!!???????? Not gonna lie I lost all faith in the game after that. I get the Emperor is trying to insert itself into the plot as much as possible, but is it being literally in our head all the time not enough????? Does it need to rob Wyll of even the tiniest droplets of plot he had???
Also ofc the fact that in any point in the story Wyll never has an emotional response to his father being missing OR present, just as well as Ulder himself being completely stone-faced and running out of things to say to or about his son after 1 camp dialogue.
I despise the direction Larian is taking with these patches. They should have expanded Wyll to the same level as every other companion before even thinking about shit like adding Halsin, more bad endings, more, even MORE Astarion content?????? I'm honestly so disappointed, act 3 made Larian's credibility plummet in my eyes. I hope I can one day become a modder and give this game what it deserved to have in the first place, from launch.
New mod manager is out. Fingers crossed.
Really happy to see more people talking about this. Wyll needs more love and the fact that they've been adding changes like uhhhh more Astarion kisses! Or more Alfira! Or more evil endings! etc while ignoring Wyll apart from a couple fixes over the year is shameful. No hate to other characters (I love Astarion and Alfira and pretty much everyone else!) but come on. It's been more than long enough. Give him more content, make him less dependent on Karlach, give him agency when he's about to make the second most important decision in his life. Why can Shadowheart, Karlach and Gale choose their destiny on their own, but not Wyll - a character whose entire story is about that choice being taken away from him? Why does he still lack camp banter and dialogue? Why does he feel like an extension to Karlach's story? He can have so much more and Theo would be amazing at acting and voicing it.
I think Wyll in alpha felt more flawed. In that footage you showed, like you said he's way more bloodthirsty, more concerned with appearances than doing the right thing. He's interesting. I heard they rewrote him because players were not engaging with him enough? Idk. He had a cool pirate vibe going on.
He just feels too soy. Not enough spice. You're absolutely right I don't think they wanted any backlash from having a complex black character that has morally grey character traits.
An excellent analysis. I think you're right about old Wyll, in that they might've accidentally stereotyped him a bit and had to roll it back and make him more Hero™. It's sad, because he seemed to have much more interesting flaws and bonds than current Wyll, but I see why it needed to happen. And I agree 100% that you don't really _feel_ anything for his arc until towards the end, when it actually starts to matter a little bit in the grand scheme of things. I wish there was more to it.
I think the thing with the Wyll and Alistair comparison is that it isn't the race that is why Alistair works more, though there is unconcious bias possibly, but it's that Wyll was forced into being Alistair when that wasn't the original plan for the character, at least at that time in the story, unlike Alistair, where Bioware had a plan with him and never compromised it.
But imagine if Dragon Age Orgins was an early access game and people complained about Morrigan being too mean and Alistair being too whiny and those character traits being dialed down for the sake of the players, and that is kinda what happend with Baldurs Gate 3.
This could be a point in arguing why early access game design can be more detrimental in comparison to games being designed and then released.
Dragon Age 4 has 2 new black companions though, which is great.
I think Wyll works much better as a playable character. I like how in order for you to be a good guy as him you have make deal with Mizora on different points of the story, ruining his life in one way or the other, which highlights the sacrifices you have to still make in order to be a *good* person
I wish this the game would play more into the theme of tempting him to become evil using ways like these
Edit: i guess its already been sais
Reality is that people were bound to complain for the sole reason that he is the only main black character in the game. Back in EA people were already talking about how "boring" he was, how they didn't feel like they wanted to play his story line as much as the other characters'. People were also complaining to Larian on the other side for making the only black character have "questionable morals" (mind you, all characters at that point were morally gray at best). Then they changed the character completely, and now people are saying they preferred how he was back then, after basically forcing Larian to take the safest possible choice and try and make him an "unhateable" character. I wish Larian stuck to their original vision and made Wyll the flawed, complex character he deserved to be, but I think they got too caught up in the whole "listening to the community" thing, which worked in favor of the game in many ways, but was a detriment to the writing in this case.
I really hate to be that guy, but something really kind of bothers me about Wyll's story. The fact that the black man is the one bound by an entity in such a way that he's essentially enslaved and treated like an animal. I know that wasn't likely the exact vibe they were going for and I don't think Larian are racist (though may have some unchecked biases/overlooks things, but we're all human and change is always possible), but it does have unfortunate implications that never sat right with me. Especially when Wyll and Mizora are shipped together by fans like it's a consensual BDSM dynamic and not a predatory entity who took advantage of a man who from I recall was caught between a rock and a hard place.
I also think it isn't looked upon with as much disgust because of the genders of the characters. I know this is a very loaded thing to say, but I think Mizora wouldn't be seen as attractive or alluring if Wyll was a woman and she were a man. I don't say this to dismiss the plight of women in regards to equality or abusive relationships which is a very big issue, but it does seem to me that it may be looked upon as "not that bad" or "sexy" because of that difference. Also the fact that Wyll isn't a conventionally attractive light skin person like Astarion means that he may not be given the same level of sympathy because he doesn't fit within western society's framework of what a victim looks like, nor what a predator/abuser like Mizora looks like.
That's my Tedtalk. I just really wanted to get that off my chest and your video hit on some other issues I have with how Wyll's character and story were handled.
Well said.
Oh no I totally agree with you! It's also important to say that Wyll was... 17, I believe (?) when he made that pact with Mizora, he wasn't a man getting caught up, he was straight up just a child. And then he lost his eye on top of that, so a disabled, disowned, enslaved black child that has to relearn on his own how to fight (having one eye less can impact your fighting quite a lot when it comes to being precise).
And yes, you are totally right, Wylls abuse is downplayed because he's a blach man and black peoples pain isn't taken as seriously and because his abuser is a white woman that's considered hot, they don't fit the perfect victim and horrible abuser trope quite as much as Cazador and Astarion.
You could make the same argument for most of the other origins, regarding enslavement. Cazador, Shar, Mystra, Vaalith, Zariel, Bhaal; they all hold power over the characters in a way that conveys themes akin to slavery/abuse.
You may be overthinking here.
Almost everyone of the Origin companions was either brainwashed or enslaved by an abuser, I dont understand your statement that Wyll is "the one" to be in that position. Hes just the only one that we happen to see interact with his abuser at multiple points in the game.
Your criticisms of how the players view the dynamic are valid, but I dont think it was something that was poorly handled by Larian.
To be fair, every origin character is bound or hold by someone who sees them as tools or objects.
I have many play thoughs as TAV and never really used Will. I decided to do an origin play through as Wyll and with the right gear he’s awesome.
I don’t know if you have ever played Metal Gear Solid 5 but there’s a mechanic in that game where the more bad deeds you do the more the horn on the main character “Venom” Snake’s head grows. They could have done something like that in this but the opposite where every good deed Wyll does his horns grow instead of starting off huge from the beginning. That way you can have some conflict as the player where you can have Wyll make the right decisions but you’re forcing him to look more like a monster.
I think one reason Wyll is boring to me is that his screen time just doesn't really have any super impressive moments. Shadowheart has the prism and her Nightsong cutscene is so iconic. Lae'zel does a super cool flip over your head in the first few minutes of the game, and then later introduces you to Gith'yanki society and Vlaakith. Karlach is absolutely yoked and destroys an entire inn with fire immediately after you recruit her. Wyll's story and arc seem to mostly happen *to* him, rather than he himself doing anything cool on screen (other than shanking 1 goblin). I wish he could've been shown Eldritch Blasting someone off a cliff or using his experience as a noble to get you into a ballroom or something. I want to see him really show off his skill set the way the other companions do.
...his literal introduction cutscene? And people in your party recognizing him immediately as a folk hero?
@@humuhumu776 His intro is just him shanking a goblin. It's just.. really mundane imo.
Bet you like Astarion though and he has no action cutscenes
@@FinalOven_Mint Not a huge Astarion fan actually, though I do like Neil's acting. Would have been cool to see him do something impressive as well before act 3.
My main issue with Wyll is that I preferred his early access version. I added him onto my team on my first ever playthrough of the EA because he had such a vested interest in making the goblins pay; his Act 1 quest essentially was defeating the goblins and saving the tieflings, something a lot more tied into the main plot.
I still like the Wyll we have, but I do sometimes lament what could have been. Same thing with the Dream Visitor vs the Dream Guardian, I was just more interested in the early access version.
I don't think wyll's lack of hours is the problem its more like hes treated as the generic protag do-gooder but larian had to account for him being a companion and not mc so his cool plot stuff becomes everyones main plot stuff e.g saving duke ulder, ansur, mizora rescue in the mind flayer colony. Also to compound this point the eventually adding of durge pushed him even further away from his natural mc spot
im only 20 minutes in but this is a fantastic video so far. There's obviously been a lot of shallow observations about Wyll over the last year but you've already raised some real and interesting points without raising any fake outrage for an overall still loveable character and wonderful game. subbed :)
I also wish we got a more complex look into Wyll’s relationship with his father. Wyll was practically disowned for taking up his contract with Mizora in order to save the city his father presided over, yet he was cast out for his actions and punished for simply doing good.
Even with these actions of his father, Wyll is very forgiving. It is not his forgiveness that perturbed me, but the lack of complexity into understanding why he was so willing to give it so quickly.
We can infer through several moments in Wyll’s dialogue that his father instilled key tenants of justice and good into him, seemingly prioritising creating a ‘noble’ son over having a good relationship with him. There was very little allowance for unique development beyond being just and moral.
Wyll still holds himself to these tenants, demonstrating just how instilled they are. He absolutely believes in them too, but I think we need to look deeper into why he is so morally good. How much of it is his core character and how much of it was placed on him by a father shaping a young man?
When we rescue Ulder from the Iron Throne, the conflict between him and Wyll feels remarkably uncomplex. Wyll gives seemingly blind forgiveness to his father, and I don’t think this is explored enough. Why does he feel the need to continually please his father even after being cast out as a teenager?
Now of course I may be reading far too much into select pieces of dialogue, and I may just be latching on to Wyll’s story because I relate to many aspects of it, but I can’t help but feel that the game didnt explains Wyll’s motivations and relationships enough.
He got that private christian school boy energy
My literal reaction to this vid's entire premise lol:
'What *ABOUT* Wyll?' xD
The easiest way to win the Trial of Courage is just to send one character in alone to cast Sanctuary and wait.
I really do think the rewrite was a mistake. They could have taken another pass and ironed out some of his more egregious faults from the beta without cutting his inner conflict. As is, he may be a more likable character in the full release (hell, I still like what we got), but absolutely would have been a more memorable one if they kept some of the beta version's faults to make a proper arc for him.
my first playthrough I was a human bard and fixated on Halsin, therefore not romancing monogamous characters to simplify things, and I didn't talk to Gortash, I snuck into the city, and I did the whole Iron Throne quest before going back to talk to Gortash, and then obviously Ulder was there and I didn't want to kill him so I killed everyone else, knocked him out, and fled. Then the game was bugged as hell in regard to Mizora and Wyll and I was like, this sucks but I don't want to go back, so after I finished that playthrough I started a Wyll origin to romance Karlach, but then I started a storm sorcerer to romance Gale because I saw something somewhere about Gale and I had to know, and I haven't finished that one either, I'm busy, etc, I have a graveyard of saves from months ago now... Anyway, I'm bummed that Wyll has been neglected, I was so excited to get into all his lore when I started that origin game
I just finished my fourth time beating the game, replayed my first character I rushed through during the 3-day grace period last year, the first time I had gone for Gale because he showed the first interest in my character. I went with Wyll this time and was delighted. I feel he had the best feel for me and the character, though I have only romanced Gale, Astarion, Karlach, and Wyll so far.
I enjoyed most everything about Wyll's romance, even going to Avernus to find a way to fix Karlach. It felt like a brave adventure my character and he would go on - yet I can agree that Wyll feels rushed? I had no idea about the previous incarnation and that sounds interesting in a different way, while Wyll himself feels like an overcorrection in another way.
In the TTRPG scene there is a constant of Paladins being "Lawful Stupid" and it has come to be that Warlocks are just "evil assholes" even with backstories like Wyll's of not wanting the Pact. I think Wyll (haven't ever played with Minthara yet) was a correction of this, to show a Warlock can be undeniably good even with an Infernal Pact. Like you mentioned with people writing what they don't know it feels much more is given to Wyll as a Warlock than a black man, or hells, a Devil in human skin!
If they left the original story in, people would bash devs for making the only black person a thief
theoretical
In my headcanon, wyll is the main character and protagonist, he spares Karlach. He saves balder's gate and his father wants him to be grandduke but having fallen in love with Karlach he leaves to avernus after pleading with her to save her life and he takes on the role of the blade of avernus and swears to help Karlach to get vengeance for what they did to her.
Added layer, he multiclasses into a paladin or sword-bard early on. taking advantage of his depowered state as a result of being infected and uses it as an opportunity to become powerful through his own effort and not through the pact so that he can confront mizora when the time comes to save the duke and telling her to shove it, he doesn't need her power anymore
I actually have a different look on Wyll. I like his story arc. Don't get me wrong. I think he's a wonderful character who's just as worthy of romance as anyone. I think the only reason why people find him boring is simple. With his character, he offers stability (with the exception of Minthara), while others prefer instability. As far as the other characters go, they offer adventure and the next good time. In real life, people often prefer that compared to a stable relationship which I think is foolish. That's just my take on it, of course.
Wyll be like:
Welcome to Baldur's Gate, i'm WV from Grow Streets.
I’ll be honest, bg3 is one of my favorite games. The reason it isn’t my favorite? The treatment of Wyll. It rubs me the wrong way. I wanted to romance Wyll, tried, waited for the romance update…nothing. Waited for patch 7…nothing. Wyll should be the most important character to the plot, being the most connected to baldurs gate.
I mean, they couldn’t even make a different hairstyle for him, he has the worst everything style wise, story wise, etc. but I only see people talking about what he could’ve been on a select few tiktoks
In my first playthrough, I was romancing Astarion but somehow triggered the dancing scene with Wyll. I felt so guilty rejecting him that Wyll was my only romance in my second playthrough. I rejected Halsin and Astarion for him in that playthrough!!!
loved the linguistic perspective you were able to provide on this topic, it wasn’t an area i found to be well discussed so this was an important part of the conversation id never considered! thanks for the hard work, this is great
I can see why people are disappointed that Wyll is less edgy but I'm not one of them. Wyll is a cinnamon bun and I like that he's corny and romantic; but I do very much wish they gave him more to do in the first two acts.
The sad thing about Wyll is that he had so much potential!
I don't believe every character needs to undergo a major arc to be liked but his passiveness placed him kinda... just there. The prospect of a morally good Warlock is very intriguing and while he has no regrets, he does wish to get out of his contract. His good character only feels lacking due to lack of content. Like Wyll interacting and responding to events in the world around him. Two commenters made some points about how his background could have been utilized or his transformation to a tiefling essentially could have been integrated to his story and his interactions with the other tieflings. He gets so little for what could have been so much more.
Another thing that irks me is his lack of agency.
When you are at the Shadowfell you have the option to not intervene and let Shadowheart make her choice on how to proceed. Why doesn't Wyll get that kind of agency when the major ultimatum of saving his father vs keeping the contract comes up? Why do we make that choice for him? Of course Tav can influence him but he gets absolutely zero say in anything that happens around him. He just rolls with everything the player does.
And his quest line was so haphazard. Astarion's story line has nothing to do with the main story. Like, remove Astarion completely and he doesn't influence the main story whatsoever. Wyll's quest didn't need to have a major impact in the main story to be a good and compelling one, like Astarion's. It was just all over tha place and doesn't even feel like it impacts the main story so much.
Whn i look at Wyll i see a lot of "what could have beens" and so much potential! Like, morality dilemmas, the hypocrisy of defending tieflings but dreading looking like one of them, exploration of father and son relationships, political intrigue. I love Prince Charming Wyll, and as much as i want to hope it's not internalized racism that has made Larian neglect him, it's hard to avoid that the only underwritten character in the party is the one with melanin. He's thriving in my head-cannons!
Thank you so much Mia! First of, I think he deserves way more content. Minthara does too, Both my absolute fave companions UGH why do my Favoriten have the least content
I absolutely adore and love wyll I wish they gave him more care an attention. Wyll wouldn’t do this to his characters I think Theo did a great job but the original voice actor gave wyll more spice i really liked the way he spoke but I’ll forever be a wyll lover
Just to let you know MLE dialect expands beyond London to other Southern working class towns and is not limited to black persons. I'm a white immigrant, grew up in a working multicultural class town and everyone around some growing up spoke with mle.
A really great video, I wish Larian could see this. As much as I love them and BG3, seeing them constantly ignore comments related to Wyll and his lack of content is very disheartening. I understand why rewriting him very far into development would cause problems but 7 patches later and they still barely talk about him. I hoped for DLC or a definitive edition that would iron out the issues you highlighted. Wyll's treatment doesn't surprise me anymore, just look at Larian's dev team. Maybe if they had more POC they'd handle his story better 🤷🏾I want to love Wyll but he's just too overshadowed in a cast of (origin) characters with very compelling stories.
It also sucks because BG3 is often praised for diversity but (and again I really fucking love this game!) I don't think it is *that* diverse. There's other odd choices (Cazador leaning into the yellow peril trope, the few plus size characters being evil etc) that really make me raise an eyebrow. The gaming sphere can still be very toxic so any mention of perceived -isms/-phobias tends to be handled poorly by a large chunk of the player base. Racism isn't just segregation and screaming the n-word; covert racism is real and pretty much woven into society. I don't bring up things things to slander Larian but rather because I love the game so much :(
Yeah I always found Cazador's design kind of iffy, especially since he kidnaps a white character into sexual slavery. And the fact that so many grotesque villains are plus sized but our player characters can't be depresses me so much, you'd think in 2023 you could have a fat protag
@@gwencere9383 Cazador even had a Fu Manchu in his early concept art 💀
Baldur's Gate III is pretty good but... have played BG 2? Now, THAT's a best of all time.
Ive always felt bad for Wyll. I want to like Him as much as the rest of the party but He just doesn't have as much at stake. Though I honestly feel the same with Karlach and Gale to an extent. Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Astarion definitely feel like they are the more fleshed out and complex of the 6 main companions. Wyll needed more love and I really wish they kept that moral complexity from the prerelease. The goodest boy thing is fine, but it's just boring. I would have been nice to also see Him interacting with the party more. Like outside of Karlach He doesn't have any close dynamics with the others outside of some small talk and reactions. Like I think I could be interesting if Wyll didn't trust Astarion because He's a vampire spawn but eventually tries to help guide Astarion towards handling His past in a more healthy way. Or if Wyll took some time to comfort Gale. If they had to go the route of Wyll being the true lawful good guy then I'd want Him to be the glue that holds everyone together. That He sticks His head out more for everyone and tries to keep everyone focused. It would also be nice if Wyll's backstory and plot were given some actual fan fare. If something happened that was connected to It. I want Him to have more to do because I like Wyll! Hell make Him secretly really kinky and give the horny people something to chew on. Like anything please! (That was a joke, unless 👀) Wyll needs the love.
Hi there! Just found your channel and love your videos! I actually love Wyll and my current dnd character I’m planning to play is lowkey based on him Hihi. Anyways, I would really love to see this channel grow so maybe I would make the text on your thumbnails a little bigger as to make it more catchy! Hope this helps and can’t wait to see what you post in the future :-)
If you are an Oathbreaker Paladin and reach level 17 (yes, that requires mods) then you can use Control Undead on Ansur and get yourself a pet dragon. Unfortunately he has 0 movement speed and won't follow you anywhere useful. You can take him to the Rivington and South Span Waypoints only.
Wyll was my first romance in my first playthrough hes my goat i need him :3
Great video, very informative! I think I would have liked him better if he was morally grey and had that interesting and complex background... However. If you think that you can't have a gay morally grey character in the year of our Lord 2023 then what is Astarion
38:00 yes!!!!!!!! that's something i noticed especisially in RPG fandoms (*cough* vivianne from Dragon Age *cough*).
People are thirstposting him now, but when the new DA launches, Darvin is going to get the same treatment. Mark my words.
@@ambskater97 it's already started. i kinda get the feeling certain people only care about the griffan.
Thanks for pointing out to me that Wyll is white. I actually never quite realized. In the world of elves and tieflings and what not, his colour of skin seem to matter little.
I'm black, I don't see any of these issues uniquely as a baldurs gate issue or black chracter issue, I think its mostly people trying their hardest to not offend and making the characters safe and boring or plain unlikable.
Forewarning a lot of these characters do have nuance that makes them interesting but if im bored at my first couple interactions how can you expect me to keep you on my team long term.
Abrasive no nonsense characters who clash with other characters too often.
I'll be honest though I never play a game without one of these in my team.
Vivienne (DA:I)
Pallegina (POE)
Ekundayo (PK) - becomes irrelevant after the troll part and you have to help this guy (the PK version of goblin slayer) overcome the death of his family and become a normal guy (boring!)
The totally good guy because god forbid we see a black person do anything evil or morally questionable.
Wyll (BG3)
Sosiel (PWR)
Seelah (PWR)
Blueblood (XCS)
A funny thing a lot of these writers do is make them come from upper class families so i cant relate to them.
Wyll (BG3)
Blueblood (XCS)
Characters I actually like.
Trever (PWR)
Hes a fuck up in the best way possible, a character who has sufferd a lot and with the help of his brother is rescued from literal hell. Hes a reflection of the awful world he has endured and he sounds and looks metal as hell.
Sarevok (BG)
Giga evil, looks badass and has a badass voice, narratively potent, also can change over time and become a good person. BG games made a lot of cool black people hes just my fav.
Also its not relevant but I though it might be nice for non black people to notice.
If you ever see a black female character in a game she will not be romanceable.
If a black character is in a game they will not be a stealthy cool guy and most definitley wont be a thief/rogue class.
It's even worse if you play the game like how I do where you're literally Wyll but actually cool and a badass, still a do gooder but with presence that he sorely lacks
Wyll is one of the reasons why i consider Divinity original sin 2 is better than Baldurs Gate 3. DOS2 feels more complete.
Wyll had so much potential since the early access, it's a shame his character became so boring.
Thank you for this. The "Game of the Year" showing so much bias against their one POC love interest is something that should have critical commentary.
That’s on the audience, not the developers. Early access data showed that most people preferred all the other companions - Larian was just giving us more of what we wanted.
You're beyond delusional
@@francisco646 They should not be so reliant on audience response that major characters are neglected. If Wyll is the least popular character, fine. But there should be a finished and fleshed out story for him on release regardless of popularity because its meant to be a finished game
"Well, Wyll is black, that's a part of his character."
Is it, though? Is it really? Nothing about his personality or background in BG3 is in any way related to his skin colour. His skin colour has absolutely no role in BG3, he doesn't face racism (in the game) because of it, his socio-economic status isn't influenced by it, and his culture and upbringing isn't any different from that of a white noble man from Baldur's Gate.
So no, I wouldn't say that him being black is a part of his character. Larian could have made him white or brown or swarthy and absolutely noting about his character would change except for his physical looks. His skin colour might come with a lot of baggage in our world, but it clearly doesn't have that baggage in the world of Faerun.
I have no issue with that personally, it's just an observation. If anything, it does hit on a different but related issue I have with the Forgotten Realms setting, which is that humanity is more or less just a very culturally homogenous species. The more exotic cultures are typically reserved for the elves, dwarves, orcs, drow, you name it, and even there Wizards of the Coasts has been working really hard to dismantle those cultural differences due to the woke left accusing them of racism (for example them claiming that orcs are "black coded" and therefor their portrayal is racist towards black people; an opinion which is in and of itself hilariously racist if you think about it).
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. I actually do like Wyll.
You can't reason with these people, don't even try. They get a minority character with zero stigma or correlation to the real world and they still find something to sperg about beacuse the accent he uses in a fictional world "means something else" in the real world lmao
As a mixed black man all I can do is stare and shake my head as I listen to these random people tell me why I have to be offended. 🤦♂️
I think she was more talking about the real world's reaction to his character and Larian's decisions, not that it's a big component of his life in bg3
It is. Just because skin color doesn't play stereotypical roles in stories, does not mean it doesn't play a role.
@@humuhumu776 How does the youtuber in question seem unreasonable? If she was so, why would your comments still be up?
The only person "sperg"ing, seems to be you.
Him being altruistic is the problem tho 😅 I can't do a damn funny or morally ambivalent thing without him getting pissed off
Never apologize for being cringe
Wyll is a hard character to judge.
I'd like to have him more gameplay hours because I always include him in my party.
But he's LAAAAAAME. I only carry him around because warlocks are good. A monogamous flawlessly good boy is so boooring. He is mid only because Lae'Zel exists
idk I liked wyll's story, and I liked him more than Astarion., though i guess if you respec astarion to warlock he's probably more enjoyable with his quips and stuff. but wyll was always in my party in my playthru, with gale and shadowheart
YES love the gale, shadowheart, and wyll party comp. i usually have those three if im playing a more melee style class
@@mialikesmovies I did that with druid! so basically 3 casters lol. kinda dumb but if there's magic in a game I'm using magic haha. but well, druid is kinda melee using wildshape
I wanna try another playthrough soon as a monk though that one seems fun
Way of the Shadow Monk was one of my favorites to play as!!! Highly recommend!!
@@mialikesmovies Wyll works really well as a warlock/melee multiclass, especially after his act 2 decision. And yes, I do love to go down the paladin route with him (Vengeance), because he is just unstoppable as a lockadin.
Wyll getting benched in my playthrough really just came down to him being the exact same class as my Tav, and that by the time I found out how Withers' respec works I'd grown attached to my go-to party. I figured, just like the similarly benched Gale, that I would just bring him out when I found something related to him. They both stayed benched until Act 3.
*Wyll gets transformed*
Me: "Cool"
Wyll: "Omg I look like a monster, people are gonna freak out! What cruel punishmnent D'x"
Tieflings which are a normal part of society: 👀
I promise this video will be shared amongst my BG3 friends.
As a black person, I appreciate the objectivity of your video
More content like this please!!!
I played this game 7hrs straight today.......I do not like it. I have 20hrs in total, still dont like it. I'm forcing myself to play it because I bought it...am I cooked?
The fact that you and other people are trying to make this about race complete destroys any point you were trying to make. When at any point in the story is skin color even brought up, as a mixed black man I’m tired of people like you trying spark weird debates like this and bring skin color into the matter. When it’s not even related to wylls core issues. 🤦♂️
What ABOUT Wyll?
And let’s be honest minthara has less content and still ends up being better than Wyll if you think giving him a few more hours of content would’ve saved him from being boring you’re dead wrong.
That. Exactly that. Wyll deserves better writing and having actual character development not more boring content to force everybody into liking him... The problem is quality, not quantity. What is sad is that he was supposed to have actual character arc and development in the original plans and EA but for some reason they changed him...
Why are you making it about race? I’m from England & this accent you reckon black people have… is had by people of all colours, ESPECIALLY white.
MLE came from immigrants (esp afro-caribbean and south asian) then spread through London and beyond
@@FeeFeeFee4 exactly. It spread, so it’s not just black people - it’s most of the population there.
@mialikesmovies
What is your ancestry?
You look quite distinctive with those full lips?
Ashkenazi Jewish✡?
Two minutes twelve seconds in and yes, you’ve invalidated your opinion. Except it has nothing to do with your skin colour, and everything with the words you said thus far.
Imagine making a nearly hour long video crying about how one of the better written black male characters in a video game is racist. You people literally cannot be happy with anything.
This game is not exempt from criticism. I'm not sure what "you people" is referring to either, because Mia is white, but you are evidently not coming into this discussion with an open mind. If you are not black then this is not something you're really qualified to dismiss. And even if you were black, no people group is a monolith, so people might have issues with things you find okay. There are some questionable things involved with the writing, development, and utilization of this character in the story and among the fanbase, and analyzing those things is not a bad thing to do. Stay blessed.
@@Al-qo2gg First and foremost, I never said that the game is exempt from criticism, but as someone who has been gaming for 30 years and has seen some pretty bad representations of black people over the years, Wyll is far from the worst black people could do in terms of representation. And "you people" has nothing to do with race, so I think you kinda exposed yourself a little bit by immediately jumping to race. There is a reason why the term "mulatto" is part of my username. Yes, I am half-black and while I don't speak for all black people, I think I am a better mouthpiece for black people than this uppity white savior whore using leftist buzzwords.
being better written than many other black male characters doesn't automatically mean he's written perfectly.
his entire story is about serving another against his will and his choice being taken away from him, yet in the moment when he's finally able to choose his own destiny, it's the player than decides for him, while other characters decide their own fate. It's shameful.
That's not to mention he literally lacks hours of content compared to other origins while fan favorites like Halsin who wasn't even supposed to be a camp follower get updates and fixes. Ignoring that means reinforcing the opinion that simply adding a black character is enough to appeal to your audiences, which is obviously not the case.
@@laeti8434 Did I say he was written perfectly? No. Like all characters, he is going to have aspects that either do not resonate with all who interact with him or otherwise have flaws.
Also, it's a fucking video game. Plenty of other characters, including Karlach, Gale, and Lae'zel have important decisions in their stories decided for them by the PC. This is not a Wyll specific issue. This is an aspect of video games in which you give the player choices and consequences. If you are so concerned with how Wyll's story plays out, you can always play AS him.
The fact that you assume Wyll was only included in the game for "diversity reasons" really concerns me. Wyll is not my favorite character, but I enjoyed his story and the fact that you think he was just included because "black guy" speaks volumes about how much of a racist you are.
@@laeti8434 Gotta love my initial comment being deleted. Here it is again.
Did I say he was written perfectly? No. Like all characters, he is going to have aspects that either do not resonate with all who interact with him or otherwise have flaws. Also, it's a fucking video game. Plenty of other characters, including Karlach, Gale, and Lae'zel have important decisions in their stories decided for them by the PC. This is not a Wyll specific issue. This is an aspect of video games in which you give the player choices and consequences. If you are so concerned with how Wyll's story plays out, you can always play AS him. The fact that you assume Wyll was only included in the game for "diversity reasons" really concerns me. Wyll is not my favorite character, but I enjoyed his story and the fact that you think he was just included because "black guy" speaks volumes about how much of a racist you are.