I Tried PANKRATION (Ancient Greek MMA)
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2024
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Thanks to David Larmour and Cory Johnson for taking me back in time to learn about the insanity of Ancient Greek Pankration!
David's Book
www.amazon.com/Agony-Brazilia...
"Grappling with the Classics" Podcast with Cory and David
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
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Go to drinklmnt.com/SenseiSeth for a free sample pack with any order!
Wait, why are you not naked ?
I think the Greeks liked to oil themselves up, and had a pretty hands-on approach to things.
Ancient Greece = myth
Ancient Rome = myth
I just made a purchase , but the site said that they could not verify payment details even though my card was charged
alsο Spartans were the only ones that didn't compete in PANKRATION for lots of reasons.
not because they were weak or afraid...
it was the only sport from pentathlon that they have never taken part in.
Got me kind too. Seth rather is getting bouncy in his honey moon by a colored one instead of greecing his wife up in greek yoghurt, maybe this could have softened her look.
So pankration is basically how siblings naturally fight each other.
Except in siblings fight biting is also allowed lmao. The younger ones usually make use of that technique
@@shhhh4637Together with leg cycling they sre the equalizers of the fight
@@andresmartinezramos7513or the cornering by the older sibling to the younger sibling when running around the kitchen table
Ah yes, because my siblings and I oil ourselves up naked before fighting
@@PlzTouchSomeGrass aren't we so fortunate to have parents to buys us gallons upon gallons of oil.
Nah Seth not making it through this one 😂
Kratos's name meaning power/force and violence is perfect.
You thought it was made up for a video game?
@@narcodium What would make you believe that?
It's also the word we use in Greek for "state", since the state is the power/authority over the land within its borders.
it means war too .
yeah thats why they picked it
Loving how you've been showcasing these more obscure martial arts as of late. Kinda reminds me of the show Human Weapon if anyone remembers that lol
that'exactly what I thought. Human weapon did an episode.
Human Weapon and Fight Quest were part of what got me into martial arts as a kid.
Killer bean!
@@andrewleiva2029 It's so far in the ancient past they are all has beans.
@@General_Kenobi_212Yeah I don't remember in which one but I got in my mind this pankration guy breaking a shield with a stomp kick
Honestly Sensei Seth - You really are out here putting out some of the best/entertaining martial arts content. Keep this up and you're going to go way beyond just our community.
Would you like to kiss him?
Insane glazing
Jeez, can't be nice on the internet these days, lmao.
Nah am glazing too he better make more videos like this
I cannot describe my disappointment in not ever being able to see one of those matches live. It must have been quite the experience.
Your modern experience could result in you finding such bouts revolting. A serious injury in that period could mean death.
@@Art-is-craft What you did not take into account is that I am a psychopath.
The original UFC tournaments from the early '90s were inspired by Pankration. Just like Pankration, the only rules were, "No biting, and no eye gouging." However, neither of those rules were actually enforced, so there pretty much weren't any rules. No weight classes or time limits either.
@@Art-is-craftThat's arguably a myth though: ruclips.net/video/yQtTMwDPkqU/видео.htmlsi=-JoZQ07kDUehfxfz
Pankration was, at least in the Olympics, part of a festival of unity before the gods. People dying all the time would have defeated that purpose. It became different in the Roman period though, when it merely became a spectacle.
@@MrAlepedroza
I am not suggesting that they were fights to the death but they were most certainly more physical than what modern audiences are used to. Compound fractures today can be treated to the point that people are not considering them to be a big deal but in that era it could be death. Most families in that era faced death compared to today’s world. We are definitely more squeamish.
Palaistra...now I know where the italian word "palestra" (italian for "sport hall", "gymnasium") comes from.
3:30 "Uh hello, I'm quitting ☝🧐" idk why this delivery made it so funny lmao
But why is Sensei Seth not naked ?
I think the Greeks liked to oil themselves up, and had a pretty hands-on approach to things.
"I likes to be oiled" - Testicles
Oil had different uses.
It was used to cleanse. They would be oiled up then have it scraped off.
It would be used to anoint for religions reasons.
It would be protective from the sun.
Why do you think olive oil is so valued still to this day in Greece
@@yvonnesanders4308 Interesting. Thx for the extra info.
They would oil up and then smear sand all over themselves to act as a form of sunscreen
oil raises the effort one has to put to immobilize an opponent.
What the hell, this was amazing! As someone into history and martial arts, this scratched so many itches. Thank you, Seth! I hope you enjoyed your honeymoon. You both look happy and great together!
I don't know if you ever get ideas from the comment section, but Mongolian wrestling might be interesting to you. It's allegedly from Genghis Khan's time and they still practice it today. Check it out (in Jesse's voice)!
Definitely interested in it
I had a go at Mongolian wrestling at the Mongolian fair which they used to hold in London every year. Has scoring a bit like sumo (lose if you touch the ground) and some clothing (,a bit like judo,)
He should check out Karl Pilkington having a go 😂
@@SenseiSethYou were saying it right to begin with I have never herd it called the other way.
funny thing is that taizu chang quan is the chinese spoken version of ghenghis khan boxing
Seeing an ancient Greek Pankration match would’ve been wild. Someone needs to get on with it and invent a time machine. Interesting that they mention the extreme conditioning displayed by Pankration athletes, because the Greek hoplite infantry were also renowned for their endurance
Great video! Huge respect Sensei!
A quick note! Pankration was above everything else a battlefield discipline, used in war as the last "weapon" of the greek soldier. So the word sport is a little complicated in it's case because the fighters were literally people that probably survived battlefields and killed other people.
Spartans were incredible fighters because of their spectacular use of Spartan Pankration which was brutal. Famous users of Pankration was also the Sacred Band of Thebes, an elite military force, that ended Spartans military superiority, and Alexander's Army that deastroyed Sacred Band and establised Alexander as the Leader of the PanHellene Alliance before he leaves for his conquest in the East.
Also, dirty hits etc were allowed in the Olympics, but it wasnt exactly honorable to win matches this way, Olympics were the place for fighters to prove their impeccable technique therefore, the majority was trying to submit mostly and knockout opponents.
Just a few words from a Greek historian and martial artist!
Peace!
So true. It's very similar to the original Ju Jitsu from Japan that was practiced by Samurai as a last resort on the battlefield. It also included punching, kicking, wrestling, throws, locks and finger/wrist locks. The same need that warriors had to fight and defend themselves resulted in a very similar martial art. There are probably other martial arts around the world that are similar but lost in time. We are lucky that we have these descriptions and pictures on pottery and sculptures that give us an insight into the past.
Gotta say you're doing the equivalent of a ethnography for diferent martial arts and that's fucking amazing
Sensei Seth the martial anthropologist
By the authority vested upon me by the random fact that I was born Greek, I hereby thank you for this video on behalf of the nation 😁🇬🇷
❤️
When MMA/Pankration finally returns to the Olympics, I hope they try to replicate it, with the bean jar and all. No watered down BS rules.
And the penis holder too!
As cool as that’d be, I highly doubt it. Uncensored pankration means blood and broken bones, which either has a small audience or cannot be broadcast at all, making it unprofitable. And it’s all about money.
Lol you kiddind, right? Look what they did to Taekwondo after a guy went 3 days in coma after the 96 games.
Look what they did to taekwondo and pankration. Modern day Olympics have no right to call themselves Olympics
@@Buphido Yeah no doubt there ended up with a lot of smashed in heads and what not since they were outside, people just grabbing hold of someone's ears and bashing their head towards the ground and so on. Lots of broken fingers I'd imagine.
We've seen how mma has evolved in just a few decades. No doubt pankration, with centuries of evolving as a sport, had the best MMA fighters of all time.
100%
I doubt the reason sports develop so fast new days is because of the technology capable of recording analyzing and coming up with counter tactics, like boxing for example, modern boxing that started in the 19th century stayed the same without being developed until the camera was invented and boxers started analyzing each others which meant they had to develop new techniques and tactics, so I don't think ancient sports would've been able to develop the same way current sports
Imagine going up against "The Finger Breaker" in a sport in which your only way to tap out was to raise a finger.
it is awesome how history has kept information for thousands of years about everything, including martial arts. I mean that description at the end might as well have been a radio program about ufc
If you're ever in London, make sure you see the Elgin Marbles at the British Museum. They have these amazing action scenes that are so dynamic, they look like modern day comic books, but they're carved out of stone instead of draw in ink.
Parthenon marbles to be precise 😉
Parhtenon statues. They belong to Greece. Indeed the depictions are amazing. All the best to you.
Are you trying to rub it in? Those marbles are a very sensitive matter to us Greeks. And yes they are amazing and they should be returned to Greece.
@@malamatinas1 I'd be happy to see them go back to Greece...but consider it Greece's good luck that they weren't there to be destroyed by the Ottomans, Turks, the Nazis, or the Communists during the multiple opportunities over the last two hundred years.
@@gw1357 aaa yes I should be thanking you instead… did the English save the rest of the Parthenon or did we just get lucky with that? I
Jim Arvanitis has been putting out Pankration content since the 80's , at the time nobody had anything close in mainstream productions . Great stuff and shows in the end there's nothing really new when it comes to fighting . It's all just physics and biology .
I’ve got his literature. Since I don’t have any nearby Pankration instructors I’ve used that with my experience in boxing, wrestling and military combatives training with his information.
Ya Jim is the man he was on the cover Black Belt magazine and I loved those articles with him.
Seth I hope to see you make a video about Kudo the japanese MMA
Hell yeah, my art. Sadly it's barely developed in the US so he would need to travel quite far.
Fun fact... Sumo in its original form was also very similar to MMA, with punching/kicking/elbow strikes/leg sweeps/grappling🤯
This is basically the MMA version of what happened to rebuild sword fencing into modern HEMA. It's pretty cool to see.
Hey Seth! Would love to see a discussion or collab with AMO Pankration, he is very knowledgeable about Pankration
Pankration is supposed to have been created by Herakles
So not only he was strong as a god, he fought like a champ
Another theory is that Theseus developed Pankration due to his fight with the Minotaur.
Sensei Seth thank you for all that you do. Watching your videos always brightens my day!
Brother Seth, I cannot begin to declare how delighted I am to see you do a video on Pankration. There is so much beauty and legendary awesomeness in Pankration's bloody brutality. I just want to quickly clarify that biting and eye-gouging may be the only techniques forbidden in regular Ancient Greek Pankration. However, eye-gouging and biting were completely permitted in the Spartan version of Pankration. Therefore, if you were in Sparta, everything goes in Spartan Pankration from punching to kicking to grappling to biting to eye-gouging, thus leaving no room for figurative prisoners in the arena. If people thought Mixed Martial Arts was deadly, Pankration, especially done in Sparta, makes MMA look like playing patty-cake in the playground or a daycare center. At least Mixed Martial Arts is regulated for better or for worse. Pankration is regulated to a degree at least in Athens. But in Sparta? All bets are off for regulations so long as the fighters try to win by making their opponents submit. When all is said and done, Pankration does need a lot more rediscovery, appreciation, representation, and love because it is the predecessor to various hybrid martial arts from Luta Livre Esportiva to Vale Tudo to Combat Sambo to today's Mixed Martial Arts. Therefore, I want to thank you, Professor David Larmour, Coach Cory Johnson, and Livingston for this informative and entertaining video about Pankration. I have definitely continued to learn a lot more about Pankration with every upload on RUclips, every encyclopedia I read, and every online article. Cheers, gentlemen.
If that is true about Spartan Pankration then it sounds a lot like gouging, which was an Appalachian and backwoods Southern colonial style of dueling for the lower classes. The planter class of course would duel with pistols or with swords, but the poor men dueled with knives or with their bare hands, and it was also no holds barred. The prized technique was to gouge out your opponent's eye and keep it for yourself, but you could also bite, attack the groin, and even use sharpened nails or teeth. Men who took part in multiple gouging duels were often horribly disfigured and had extremely long nails that they lacquer hardened and filed to points, and some even filed their teeth sharp.
@@connor3284 According to my research on various sources, eye-gouging and biting were permitted in Spartan-style Pankration. I also believe you when you said that these particularly brutal combat techniques were also rooted in socioeconomic status and survival. Thanks so much for your response to my comment.
If you could, I'd be interested in your sources. None of the original writings Ive seen from that time period support this. What ya got?@@operaanimelover369
could they grab or strike the balls?
@@curtisjackson5793 Groin strikes are allowed in Spartan-style Pankration.
Super well put together video, Seth!
This is super cool man. The history in this video is insane
Play Assassins Creed Odyssey if you wanna visualise it more. You can go to Olympia Greece and explore the whole thing. There’s also a mission in the campaign where you go back to Sparta to ask for your home back after you were banished as a child. The kings of Sparta go ask you to win a reef in the Olympics and you compete in the pankration fighting dudes. The bear arm combat is really fun I replayed this mission over and over so many times.
Hello , Greek person here !
Pankration in English would be more like “absolute dominion” the winner is the one "holding dominant force"
(Παγκράτιο, παν + κρατείν)
Thx!
Ever hear about the Pankration fighter that used to break his opponents fingers so they couldn't submit? Fun story
really love you guys recreating the moves as he was telling the story, helps a lot with visualization.
Yup. Super cool to see the description through the eyes of a high level wrestler and bjj guy.
All just made up speculation with 0 historical backing or sources. Trully a great video to spread lies about ancient Greece.
@@Meatlord69 They literally cite the sources. But go on.
Made up sources, yes. You go on please. Spread more dumb American lies.@@gregortheoverlander4122
seth i saw a video from a greek dude that studied pankration for a couple decades reacting to yours. the channel name was amo pankration. the dude was a little negative but he knew a lot about the topic and it appears that everything your instructors said were a bunch of bs. it seems those guys were a bunch of quacks. if you want check that out since it's in english and can help you learn a bit more about the martial art. i'd love a revisit on pankration since even i as a greek dude don't know much about it and since it's pretty fascinating to learn about one of the most ancient martial arts, especially if it's done in your humorous and fun style.
aye, Seth should contact that guy and maybe he could interview him on the subject
@@JorgePentonSitumorangyea definitely
What a great complimant: ”you are the modern day vase painter”. 😊
One of your best vids m8!
This is very cool!
You gotta try Pencak Silat later man. It's a weird and beautiful art of southeast asia much like a hybrid of shaolin kungfu and sanda
Lots of different styles
Hey Seth. You need to watch AMO Pankrations reaction to this video.
The guy is a peer reviewed authority on the subject & makes very educational videos on Pankration
Wow really enjoyed watching this one. Loved the history and very well put together video
Great storytelling Seth, thank you for the video
A travel series with you and the karate nerd would be amazing!
Never really appreciated history or seeing old buildings, but this video makes it so interesting! Great work, Seth!
By a huge coincidence I was reading the Greek poet Pindar, and he covers some of the themes mentioned in this video. What a pleasant surprise to see your interpretation of what the fight would be like.
Kratos as well means 'the hold over something'.
Btw, research Theagenes of Thassos.
Thank you for another opportunity to film for you, this time about Pankration with Cory Johnson, US Wushu Sanda Team Coach, and Livingston McKenzie, US Wushu Sanda Team member, Pan American Champion and silver medalist as well as HYX 16th World Wushu Championships bronze medalist, and Professor David Larmour, while visiting former head coach of the US Wushu Sanda Team with Coach Ian (Yi-Yuan) Lee at his gym United Martial Arts Training Center in Lubbock, Texas while both trying and featuring our sport of Wushu Sanda again, great academic discourse and reenactment! Also, apologies, a couple shots of Professor Larmour had bad lighting 😅 Looking forward to the Grappling with the Classics podcast with Cory Johnson and Professor of Classics David Larmour! 😊
Can't wait to see the final episode on rough-and-tumble/gouging!
Pankration, the powerful GREEK martial art!!
Great video. Would love to see you branch out into ancient/classical warfare too like Roman legionary training and stuff
Hey man, this was one of your best videos I think.
If you're taking suggestions, I'd love to see you do a video on Mongolian Wrestling and a video on Vale Tudo (maybe even see if you could get Mario Sperry in on it).
Either way, great vid, thanks for making it :)
Great video as always. Imagine if there was footage from those competitions from way back then...all the crazy KOs that have been lost to time. I'd love to see you enter a boxing tournament some day!
They gotta bring back some version of this!
that depiction of arrichion doing a 4point to shake off his opponent and then do a leg turk/lock is so dope
Thank you for this amazing history lesson, sensei.
I would love to see more of these. Diving into historical forms of martial arts, and not just the ones commonly practiced today. People have been fighting for both war and sport for thousands of years.
A channel by a scholar with published research called AMO Pankration did a pretty comprehensive critique on your instructors who unfortunately seem to be mostly incorrect. He was fairly negative but it might be interesting to reach out and attempt corrections as this is an interesting topic
Excellent video...
Thanks Seth. Very cool.
Great history, Seth!
This is my first time even hearing of this combat form….learn something new everyday 😊
Hey seth, i hope you will continue your wrestling series videos. They are really awesome. And the sumo videos too!
Just viewed reaction on channel "AMO Pankration" and it seems that "experts" don't know much about pankration.
aahhb i always refreshened everytime sensei dude drop something :3
U always try so many cool things 💜
Wonder if you will ever try japanese kempo... Ive heard its related to sumo but looks similsr to karate so... Probably a cool style to try
Yippee a new video from my favourite modern vasemaker.
Hey Seth great video. Also I'm 85% sure I spotted you on Bachata Knight's stream the other day so I'm looking forward to the buhurt video whenever you upload that haha
I do the roman version pancratium as part of my living history group (mix of gladiator hema and unarmed), its great fun.
Awesome video, as usual! These exploration of different styles of martial arts are so fun, and such a great way for others to learn a little bit of what they do and where they come from!
Question though. Is David Larmour originally from Northern Ireland? Sounds like he grew up there, moved to England where the accent/pronunciation changed, then spent time in the states for even more of a blend of accents.
i am a greek and a pankration practictioner and i suppoer this video.Thank you seth for covering the sport of pakration
What a great, unexpected video. Thanks
I will buy this book. Greetings from Greece. Παγκράτιο
yeah my mma teacher is always saying how we were the first country to create mma and stuff but pankration now is a modified version of karate, named pankration because somebody wanted to make more money by being different
A luta agarrada faz parte da história humana, em todos os povos da terra se encontra uma maneira, um modo...tribais africanos, índios sul americanos, em todo canto do mundo existem ou existiram.
A luta agarrada não é de um país ou povo, é humana.
True. There is a channel on RUclips called AMO Pankration that is trying to revive the ancient art in a HEMA sort of fashion.
Lmao nahh
@@Fubazim Pankration (παγκράτιον) não é a "luta agarrada", a "luta agarrada" seria o que hoje chamamos de "wrestling", ou em grego antigo, *pále* (πάλη)
Pankration não permite apenas técnicas de agarramento, mas sim todo e qualquer tipo de técnica exceto mordidas e perfuração dos olhos.
Japan and Brazil both had mma before the US.
My favourite vid yet
Wonderful brilliant.you making a video for Greek history.with out the Greek subtitles. Bravo👏🏻👏🏻👏🏼👏🏽👏🏾
Depending on the time period they may have had Posca or something similar which is classical period Gatorade made from water, wine, vinegar, herbs and sometimes honey
Next video: I Tried GLADIATOR GAMES (Ancient Rome Entertainment)
Congratulations!
Very cool that you got to check it out and visit Greece the Olympic sport is different than the combat version. Man I'm Jonesing to see more of the combat version.
(GR) Ώραιο vid αδερφέ ! Δεν συμπαθούσα ποτέ την Ιστορία σαν μάθημα και μ' αρέσει να μαθαίνω μέσα από εκπέδευτικά video σαν αύτα. Nice video man !
(EN) Never really liked history as a study and I really enjoy learning about cultures through educational videos like this one. Gotta love the fitness and martial art content too though !
(Ναι είμαι Έλληνας και δεν ξέρω Ρώμαική ιστορία...)
Read about the most legendary pankration practitioner: Dioxippus. His story is pretty cool and tragic at the same time. We need a movie of him.
Sensei Seth I regularly enjoy your videos, as I did this one.
However later youtube recommended a video by 'AMO Pankration', a person doing really deep study on pankration, publishing studies in journals, making a lot of videos on historical details and the like.
Said person made a video critical of this one, I think without fully understanding what it is that you do as a channel and as a martial artist, but made a lot of great clarifying points in regards to the history of the martial art of pankration that you may want to know about for future reference.
fun cross over, in Olympic fencing the method to acknowledge a touch against you you extend the index finger on your off hand in the same manor as the Pakration submission motion
AMO Pankration did a great video debunking the bullshido in this video.
This was a great video, eye-opening, entertaining and well made.
Was looking into pankration earlier this year!
Humans have 2 legs, 2 arms all the fight styles have similirity some styles use more the hands or the legs but in the end of day are all the same Grappling or Striking styles are the same with variations.
4:52 ahhh the true art of sportsmanship
This is why i love history!!!
Plato was also a wrestler, that might be why he always won the discussions :D
This is great content thanks
The element ad was really funny.
Great video.
Livingston seems like he'd be fun to spar with, dude seems like he's having a blast the whole time.
Bro, i hope you plan on doing a keysi fighting method video!
Fight with all your heart!
Hope you enjoyed Greece. So much wonderful history
Great video
You know, the vids of your experience in different martial arts reminds me of a couple TV shows back in the day (2000's i think) on USA network and Discovery channel. But I like this version better. :)
Wow. Just seeing the techniques these guys use, now I know that Pankration really is unique
As a student of Ancient History and a Martial Artist, this video is amazing
Sumo is another interesting one, original sumo was basically MMA. Not the modern version everybody would recognise today!