I prefer to be “hold back” and actually been able to hold my own once I get promoted than been promoted prematurely. I was a white belt for almost 3 years and I didn’t felt I was hold back, I simply was a slow learner when I started Jiujitsu, the fact that my coach took a relatively long time to promote actually increased my confidence that I earned my blue belt when I was finally promoted (2 stripes blue belt currently).
2.5+ years is standard at my school unless you win tournaments, then you can get blue in 1 year. The other belts are all up to skill and have specific requirements
It'll be 2 years as a white belt in November. Definitely glad it's taking a while to get promoted. Any advice dealing with others calling you a sand bagger? Just been ignoring them lately.
@@fupasaan If they call you a sandbagger take it as a compliment. Is definitely better to be called a sandbagger than not been able to hold your own against others in your rank.
@@pablotirado3993 definitely I was super pumped the first few times. It just gets old after a while. I will definitely just look at is as a compliment from now on tho. I'm just worried it'll get to my head and my ego will inflate.
Fine line coaches/profs have to walk between "holding back" for confidence and sandbagging. Most profs/coaches I've seen promote based on what they genuinely believe is earned.
I used to worry about my now 10-yr-old having gotten promoted too often (and too soon) based on attendance alone: you attended, you got stripes and promotions. He lost his first 18 or so out of 20 or so comp matches. But over the past few months, things have really started to click for him. He had an in-house tournament and went against a kid 50 lbs heavier (muscle, not fat) and managed to get a submission and beat the bigger, older, more experienced kid using technique. So on the flip side of sandbagging is that others who are afraid of being promoted, do or can rise to the level of their competition.
This topic reminds me of my first gym. The head owner/instructor was a business shark, they had the stripe and belts tests, which cost money ($25 and $35 respectively). The “test” is you demonstrating techniques in front of the class, and the techniques are printed out for you based one your current level, and each stripe had a certain number of classes required before you could take the test. Also, almost no rolling to speak of, at least during class. Sometimes you’d get a few people after class getting some rolls in. And i never saw the instructor roll with any student, and he insisted the students call him “professor.” Needless to say, i got wrecked at competitions. It wasn’t until i found my current gym that i realized how much of a McDojo that was, and my game has skyrocketed since I’ve been at my current gym I still see the old students at comps sometimes and yeah they don’t do too well unfortunately, i hope they watch this vido
@@thegreyocelot Just checked it out. A lot of name dropping, the names he strongly ties himself to the most is by business orientated people. His Bjj leanage is questionable as he doesn't have a timeline of when he got his belts but just his black belt. Doesn't have a set price(red flag) I can tell this man definitely uses martial arts as a business first.
Personally...having been a blue belt for 5 years now training 3 days week minimum. My BIGGEST FRUSTRATION has been the communication about promotion. The unspoken rule is "dont ask about it" so I dont. Promotion day comes and goes all my peers get promoted and I am left. For about 3 years now without fail. Normally afterwards I get a gym fellow asking "whats going on? Why are you not promoted." I have no idea, no direction, and cant ask about it. Jiu jitsu is stupid and backwards in this aspect. I have been held back so long it is discouraging.
The black belt I trained with says his longest belt was his blue belt. Bet your coach just wants you to be the baddest blue belt (or purple belt for that matter) around. Don’t stress it one bit. You’ll probably sail through brown belt when you get there.
tournament are a great way to see what you need to work on and as a Blue belt there is nothing that says you can't compete in the advance which is what some blue belts do at my gym. There is also the absolute. once you know the gaps in your game it's easier to ask why something is going wrong then work on improving that aspect of your game, at least this is what work for me.
@@Bhanna4d great job! We have blue belts trying to do the john wick thing and compete in both intermiate then advance in both no gi and gi some are trying to add the absoulate division as well (25+ fight in a day). I am a little older so I an just going to hit master and possible the regular adult in both no gi and gi (only 20 fights). How many fights are you getting in the tournament?
When I first started training in Jiu Jitsu I told myself, “You’re doing this for the rest of your life. You’ll get your black belt one day.” 13 years later and that day finally came. This is a great video. You make some very valid points. Thank you. Unfortunately you’re correct about the quality of most of the students that come from schools that charge for stripes and belts. Since there’s so many schools these days I’d encourage anyone to not sign any agreements until you feel a school would be a good fit for you. Your students are lucky to have you! I love your channel. 🤙🏼
I love hearing you talk about this. I have done martial arts my whole life and I have experienced a great gym where it eventually closed because, though he was a great instructor, he was a bad business man and people took advantage. I have seen the money grabbing McDojos. My current bjj coach I believe hits the sweet spot. He knows his worth so he charges what some think is a lot. But he gives great value and never hard sells any merchandise or seminars.
Chevy... You remind me my kickboxing coach who used to train me in my late teens. He also paid for my tournaments. He was so humble and inspiring person. He changed me so much as I was from family without father growing up on criminal neighbourhood. Needless to say ive become 3 times national champion and 4 consecutive years member of the National team. I am so glad my life path crossed with him. God bless you Chevy
It took me roughly 2 years to get my blue belt at one of the “talent factory” gyms in Los Angeles. I trained often and had a wrestling background and saw a lot of dudes that I started with get their blues before I did. I would beat them in sparring pretty consistently, competed well, and even gave the majority of purple belts a fair amount of trouble. It was common practice at this gym to do belt promotions at seminars and I was vehemently against this because I didn’t want to “pay for my belt” so to speak and I was afraid that paying to go to a seminar and getting the next belt made it a hollow symbol. Anyway, one day after training my professor made it very well know that the reason he had held me back was because I was relying far too much on my wrestling background and was not opening up my game. In response to this, I worked my defense and guard for about 8 months and got my blue randomly after training one day. Sometimes we just have massive holes in our game that haven’t been able to be exposed yet because competencies in other areas have been enough to mask these holes thus far. Just some food for thought. Great video Chewy, definitely agree with letting your guys season at their current level before throwing them to the sharks all over again. 🤷♂️
The best promotion system I’ve seen is curriculum-based testing. To get 1 stripe on your white belt, you have to know how to perform a set list of techniques. This eliminates the “you get promoted when you can submit the next belt up” and attendance based promotions. It’s a shame that so few BJJ schools actually have a curriculum.
@@BobBob-il2ku Some people are naturally athletic or have backgrounds in wrestling or whatnot and can submit or hold their own against higher level belts. So, do you promote them because they can submit a higher level belt even though they still lack a lot of BJJ skills? Or do you keep them as a white belt for 3 years because you don't promote any white belt until after 3 years? Or do you promote them when they can demonstrate that list of techniques that every white belt is expected to know? Or maybe a combination of the three options is best? Then again, what about the 55 year old overweight guy, or 20 year old skinny girl, etc. people who against others in class are stuck at the "hit it for shit live" level because their competition is also improving but even faster. How do you promote them?
@@daithi1966 in judo it used to be that practitioners were set to fight for each belt colour. So as a white belt to get yellow belt you would have to win 3 competition matches against yellow belts, and so on. to get a black belt 3 wins by ippon to get a belt - that is still the case today. it made sense but like you say that excludes people that may have had good technical knowledge but were not as practical and basically not as good fighters. but all the technique in the world means nothing if you cant implement it in actual competition or sparring. But obviously now belt system is used to lure wannaby black belts and make money of it as people would like to have a prestige of having a black belt but without necessarily having have to fight for it. belt like that is worthless anyways
in werestling there are no belts and when i trained and competed as a child the only motivation was to win the matches and not psychological belt systems.
As a gym owner I agree with chew. Holding you back is about ensuring you grow into your belt and can handle the next. Money and making money off them isn't even a thought. It's about fostering development and growth. Some move quicker than others.
The expansion of the belt ranks most martial arts experienced in the 90's is often referred to as the revenue rainbow (more belt colors, more belt testing fees) this was not only a method of revenue generation, but originally considered a method of student retention as the students would get more "instant gratification". In time, the concept of "Black Belt Programs" (ie paid in full contracts) was implemented which lead to higher price points as opposed to a standard annual contract. Once the student had paid that "Black Belt Contract Fee" it became beneficial for the students to be rushed through the process to make room for the next wave. Thus the common principle of the 2-3 year black belt in so many martial arts. That being said...I agree with you, financial greed is far more likely to lead to quicker promotions rather than rank being withheld.
I think you're a very generous person for paying for some of your students to compete! I also think your approach is the way to go. Jumping to fast to an higher belt can be detrimental to the development of a student. I've been practicing karate for 12 years and boxing for 4 years and never once was it feeling like my coaches or sensei were trying to hold me back to make money on my back. To run a martial art school, I think you need to be passionate about it, otherwise it will shows. I wish there was a BJJ gym around where I live, but they ain't any close. I rolled only once with people at an MMA class and I really liked it even tho I did not know what I was doing for the most part haha. I really like these videos ;)
I have to agree with Chewy on the whole pushing the bjj belts thing. This gym I was training at for a year had a HUGE turnover of students after their old coach left and a lot of the classes had mostly white belts. Because of this, they promoted their current students lightning fast promoting guys to blue belts in 6 months to make their gym look better. I even saw a purple belt get 3 stripes at once and it wasn't uncommon to see people get 3 or 4 stripes at once. The money hungry gyms will promote their guys FASTER, rather than hold them back. From a consumer's standpoint: would you rather go to the gym with only white belts or the gym with a bunch of blue, and purple belts?
It’s Ethan from the medal winning video, cool video. I definitely agree, I feel in no way my coach is money hungry. I know for a fact if he gave more belts and stripes he would make more money because people would stay, but I think letting people who are impatient quit is key to running a successful gym. Thanks for the content🔥🔥🥇
I have been a part of big bjj club that had very structured way of promoting- based on attendance cards and pretty much computer system was reminding head coach when they are due their blue belt. Blue belt promotion was made into a big thing - each person had to give a speech and it was kind of big ceremony. I have since left the club to good competetive judo club but also considering eventually joining local small but competition based bjj club in addition to Judo - im now coming to conclusion that smaller competition oriented bjj clubs offer more quality instructions as their techniques are constantly being tested in competition and rolling is usually a bit higher intensity which seem to be just more realistic( i love energy of wrestling and judo sparring hence why intense, fast paced rolling sessions are very appealing to me), and also smaller clubs despite sometimes being run buy brown belt or even purple still do not lack quality as those instructors usually want to prove themselves and give more to their students at lower price. So opposite seems to be the case to what I initially thought. I do find BJJ overpriced in comparison to Judo or wrestling for instance but i do know it may not be a fair comparison. Nevertheless BJJ has a great marketing machine behind itself which raised a demand for it and therefore its prices allowing to become this overpriced product- this is my subjective opinion, but being a family man and recreational practitioner these day every penny counts and i always want to make sure that what im paying for is value for money and at a minute wrestling and judo is in my subjective opinion much more value for money - although ic an see how a lot of mid age recreational practitioners would chose bjj over Judo or wrestling: those are high impact sports with considerable higher risks of injury in not practiced responsibly so BJJ is great sport for pensioners
This was possibly exactly what I’ve needed to hear. I’m a white belt 4 stripe, training for roughly a year and have been fairly dominant in sparring with higher ranks while picking up new techniques rather quickly and consistently executing my favorites with high finishing percentage. Other white belts began to outrank me and it was a little confusing. For the last 6 months, my professors have been asking me if I’m competing again soon. I got the hint after a couple months that they wanted me to get another competition in as a white belt before getting a promotion. Finally, they told me outright. Get the experience 👍 Next comp is coming up in a few weeks 🤞
I just got promoted to blue belt after 5 years of training. I wasn't out for any long stretches, I am just a slow learner. but the main thing I learned is that the reward is getting to do Jiu Jitsu. If I am healthy enough to go to class that is all I want. Don't get me wrong, I am very proud of getting this promotion. But if I was still a white belt right now, I would be still be going to class tomorrow regardless. It has never crossed my mind that my rank had anything to do with money. I am sure this is a thing in some gyms, but we all have to roll. and we all know how good we are on the Mats. That is all that really matters. Thank you for the video Chewie
I started BJJ in 2009 when I was 16. My parents were very poor and I could only pay for 1 month before it was decided we didn't have money. My coach gave me a key to the gym and told me to clean up after class and I could keep coming. He trusted me with that after only knowing me for 1 month and seeing how much I loved BJJ and Kickboxing. So I attended classes every day after school for hours, and my coach would stay late with me to go over stuff. I advanced very quickly, got my blue belt within 6 months and started helping coach kids classes. After 3 years of training I was still a blue belt, but I joined the military and didn't return to BJJ until 10 years later. Even after 10 years of not doing this and having a completely different body type my new professor said he could barely tell I took any time off. That's because my gym had high standards for their blue belts, and I want that spirit of BJJ everywhere I go. I WANT the belts to be a representation of the commitment and martial spirit it takes to succeed in one of the last martial arts that maintains it's integrity. "Belts don't matter" is true, but who wears the belt does because we are representatives of BJJ.
My coach doesn't even charge for belt promotions... just come train, pay your monthly dues.... He just loves to be there, loves to train, loves to teach..... We test when we are ready....
Ah so Chewy is all about the sandbagging. You heard it straight from his mouth! I kid. I will say that while I totally agree that I wish there was some kind of middle ground between the super structured McDojo world and many (most?) gyms where the requirements to get your next belt are completely opaque. I have yet to experience a coach who could sit down and say these are the X number of things that I need to see improvement in for you to get your next belt. I mean, imagine going to college and being told that there was no set curriculum to get your engineering degree, you just take classes (and we won't tell you which ones to take) until at some point you'll suddenly become a sophomore, and there's no visible rhyme or reason, you take 9 months to promote and your friend takes 2 years. And just to clarify, I'm not at all motivated by the belt progression. I go because it's like therapy, it's my release and I have every intention of going until my body just can't do it anymore regardless of when I finally get my black belt. I just also really dislike the way the belt progression works.
Where I am at, there used to be just the Gracie Barra around. In the last five or so years, there are now a plethora of various gyms ranging from more Gracie Barras to individual businesses. The Gracie Barra was promoting people solely on the basis of attendance, other gyms have done it based upon skill demonstration in rolling over time, and some have explicit tests done at a point where the instructor deems a student to be sufficiently "ready." No "belt test" is supposed to be failed either. If an instructor gives a student a belt test, then the instructor believes the student is ready but wants to formalize it in a ritualistic way (think Roy Dean). I don't think there is a perfect system and I do not necessarily believe time or attendance is the best determinant. Generally, the more time on the mats and the more attendance, then the person will be better and a higher rank sooner - this is not a guarantee. Some people could attend 3-5x a week and still be really misguided (whether they're overall struggling or they're just not a good training partner). I think a big reason people shouldn't be promoted is if their overall mindset about promotion and training is toxic. Consider: I should be promoted cause of X,Y, and Z - why does it really matter though? Is that all jiu jitsu is? Just about the colour belt you wear? Now, I am not saying a belt DOES NOT matter - it does. But a student's mindset about a belt or about training can also reflect immaturity and therefore hold them back from "being promoted." There are a lot of white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts who I enjoy training with cause they are fun to roll with, challenging in constructive ways. Some people, regardless of their current rank, still hold a very toxic mindset around training - unsafe practices, no respect for partner development, etc. Belts should reflect a student's development in the martial ART, so it will always be subjective and variable. Hopefully people are not just paying for a rank.
Belt does not have any meaning other than for practical reason of categorize students based on experienced and skill measured through belt colour system in order to even up the odds for competitors. any other meaning that people add to belts is purely psychological and means absolutely nothing
My coach is notorious for holding belts. He came from a TKD background originally, and he had to watch the black belt become commercialized in it. He usually makes us compete a belt higher than we currently have because of it. It’s also a little different because we are an MMA gym. I can say confidently that it’s not a money issue, though. I don’t pay anymore because I coach the kids’ class, but it still takes me just as much time to be promoted as anyone else.
Spot on brother. I promote the same way you do. I want my guys ready for the next level. I stayed a white belt 3 years, blue 2 , purple 5, brown over 2. It seems that most of the people that complain about the time are not black belts. Just an observation.
The claim makes no sense because it's not like once a person receives their black belt they quit the gym. So there's no monetary benefit to holding students back. If anything, the inverse incentive to fast track them and give them 20 stripes for each belt is a strategy with more of a fiscal incentive.
My gym has two adult promotions per year, and 3 kids. They charge a small evaluation fee for those who want to be considered, which includes a pretty nice certificate and belt. If getting a belt, the coach let's you know before. Our monthly fees are very low, especially if on the family plan. So the additional fee is not a problem. Our gym is fairly competitive, the kids have won every team tournament we have attended for the past 4 years. Adults we don't have too many that compete, but we do well. I think there are several factors when looking at business practices vs promotions. Competition and open mats tell all, if you are on par then you should perform well enough against other schools. The mat never lies.
How much monthly? My bjj coach carge 60 usd and I can come to any of all sessions throughout the month. If you had the time and energy you could probably participte to 15 sessions each week... My coach says we already pay him for lessons, the least he can do is buy us a belt or just add a small bit of tape for free. Belts don't cost much and demanding money to get "considered" for promotion is a huge red flag to me. I'm so happy my local bjj gym is such a gem
@@deivytrajan I pay $200 for my family of 6. Which is all access to all martial arts offered. Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Grappling, Krave, MMA classes, kick boxing, yoga, weights. There is alot going on and it is all included. Single art is $80, where as the other local gyms charges over $100 and where all trained by our instructor (even the Gracie guy started at our gym and is only a purple belt). There are no red flags here. And same thing if you went to every class, you could attend 15 sessions going M-F, then open mats and seminars on weekends. Idk where you live, but in California $80 is very affordable. $200 is mind blowing. When I write "considered," that is my wording, not the gyms, so I could be representing it wrong. Promotions, when we have them, it is a big event and a lot of time a effort goes into it.
I started off as a young kid in what I now know was a McDojo type situation. They had 10 levels between white and black belt. I got through every one, and I got my first black belt at 15 years old (karate) . I'm currently 37 years old, judo blue belt and BJJ white belt. I like the much lower emphasis BJJ places on belts compared to other Japanese derived styles. You talked about how belts can be this carrot people used to push people to continue memberships. This was the explicit goal of adding coloured belts to karate. It was meant to keep children interested by giving them regular goals to aim for. There's nothing wrong with having goals, but as an adult student I like the lowered emphasis on belts in BJJ. It helps me focus on my growth rather than sticking to an arbitrary plan.
It took me almost 2 years to get my blue and now I’m blue 4th strip it’s been over 5 years and I’m not in a rush to get my purple belt . I have noticed that my instructor puts me against other blue and higher belts and checks if I can survive or be competitive against the higher belts and he knows I’m the oldest member of the academy at 51 . My grand son was placed in a Mcdojo in Oregon Tae Kwon do : they did exactly what you stated every month there is a test and their fight techniques are trash and guarantee a black belt in 3 years. Your right on the money Chewy
I watch your videos because both of my sons do jujitsu. I want to help them with the mentality and if they complain about holes in their rolls. I'm not the atypical parent who shows up at every class to watch I just want to say thank you for all the wonderful advice.
first off, hope your guys have fun in the tournament. it sounds like you have a good balance of business and community support going. when i was younger i used to look down on people who went through the rigors of training in gyms, i thought that the whole system of paying to train was wrong. as i have gotten older i am grateful that we preserve the arts as well as innovate in sport. so if someone can ethically run a gym and make a living doing it, i say more power to them.
For my videos, if there's a negative comment, I check to see if that person has any content on their channel. If not, ignore. If they do, then I'll engage and we'll have a conversation.
I’ve competed 3x and placed in top 3 every time . I am still a white belt even though I can role with much higher belts and get subs . I’ve had refs question my belt level between roles at comps and am having other people in the club tell me my blue belts well overdue . I think now after expecting to be promoted for so long I will milk out my medals for longer 🤩
I really felt what you were saying in this video. Finding that balance between profits and quality. I won't forget the looks on my coach going through covid, how he finally put his foot down in our city and opened the gym back up. This has to be a serious issue for every jiu-jitsu gym owner. I as a hobbyists really don't care how fast or slow I get promoted. The way I see it, the lower my belt rank, the more silly crap I can try out that I saw on RUclips, and not have people disappointed in my foolishness lol.
This is a great video and helps me to understand the differences. I’m very new to BJJ, but while I’m learning techniques, I’m also looking for the meta meanings: the ethos, the opportunities in a roll, the happy warrior mindset. If I were ever in a position to award ranks to students, I’d want all of these things present.
Wow! Reading some of these comments really makes me appreciate my gym. There's a monthly fee, and that's it. Testing for stripes/belts doesn't cost anything extra. Usually, on testing day, after testing, my instructor brings in a higher level black belt to teach a bonus technique, for a small fee but it's not mandatory.
I think this is one of the reasons some combat sports practitioners don't really like the idea of belts. I understand belts are for skill stratification so that there aren't any unfair match-ups in competitions, but the only true indicator of learning is the skill you possess. If people get too held up in the idea of belts, it makes sense that they think they're being held back, rather than reflecting on the skills that they learned and realizing that they have come far from where they started.
My coach says every time we have a belt promotion, the same thing, and it seems cliche but its true. If you got the belt, you now have to keep working to prove that you're that belt; if you didn't get the belt, then you need to keep working to get the belt you think you deserve. Nothing changes. When I got promoted to blue belt, I didn't feel like I was ready but I felt like I had to work to prove that the promotion was deserved. Now that I have been a blue belt for a couple years and may be possibly knocking on the door of purple, eventually, I find myself feeling the same. Spending longer at a belt should be seen as motivation to excel at that belt and not a detriment to the overall goal. I can't imagine getting a new belt and just getting rolled every time on the mat as a result of not being adequately prepared. There are a lot of people in jiu jitsu that are laser focused on belts and promotions/stripes. The journey, imo, is better when you just enjoy what you're doing and keep plugging
I think It's better to give a belt once a person reaches a certain level instead pf trying to "force" them to prove that they deserve the belt. Once you give a belt you can't really take it back so there is no proving left.
Commenting on you holding people from new belts a little longer than average: I think I had my blue belt too early. At some places saying this is an insult as "I should not know better than my instructors" but I could not for the life of me at tap another blue belt. Maybe it happened 3 times? It felt really unearned and embarrassing being this bad with this belt. Combine this with my ADHDish nature => I quit shortly after. After 6 years I decided I go back and I don't really feel like I stress on belts. I am really excited now, that's how I came back on this channel ;) But yeah I think my personality was not mature enough for an early belt promotion. But now I feel like that I just wanna learn and roll.
I’ve seen gyms do promotion nights every 6 months tied to a seminar that costs 60 bucks to attend. As for holding back. I’ve seen the opposite effect. When blue belts get promoted quickly they disappear. I don’t know if they quite entirely or went to another gym. As for the brown belt to black belt. There IS a unspoken conflict of interest for a coach to promote a brown to a black. For reasons chewey mention and business. I’ve seen a handful of newly promoted black belts start their own gyms. Promotions should be on merit and skill only but the human element is too powerful here.
Ohhh boy did I ever experience money hunger at that gym. Along w so much other BS. My boy helped purchase some items for the "person in charge" (I cannot say they were a coach).... Because he had great credit the place easily financed the items....so they went thru with it contingent the person in charge of the gym would pay. Well a few months later a letter comes in the mail to his place saying he had defaulted on his payments for like 3 months. He was like WHAAAAAT?? So he contacted the person and the person flat out said they didnt have the money to pay it. And he said "you are gonna ruin my credit". So the person tells him, "just help us out and catch us up then we'll stay on it." At first he said no. That they made a commitment and promised they would keep up with the payments. And the person then responded with "ok well i guess blue belt forever thats all im saying". Just a little fyi that person was not eligible to belt anyone at that time but had a say so in who would get belted and who wouldnt. So ultimately he just paid it off with one payment to avoid issues. That is sad and disgraceful. True story..nothing added and nothing left out.
I’m sure there are some gyms that do that… But, a successful gym will only last as good as the product it puts out. If the instructor holds people back, many will search out better training.
I take so much pride in the fact that my school/ instructor is slow to promote. We don’t do belt test or charge for promotions. When coach thinks you are ready you will know because that’s the day you receive your stripe or belt. Our gym environment has perfected “belts don’t matter mindset”.
It's only been 5 months of structured training for me. It's gonna be a while until I fully understand all the things there are to BJJ, and problems in the industry.
I've been rolling hard and consistently for 1.5 years. Literally about to compete in a few hours and I'm on the cusp of blue belt. Thankfully, my professor really believes in representing the sport well. He tends to under promote rather than over promote. Ild rather grind for another year with four stripes on a white belt than promote early and "feel" like a white belt as a blue belt. With in reason, it's a great complaint to hear, "are you still a white belt," from an upper belt. My wife had the belt mill experience in Taekwondo. I agree 100% it's financially beneficial to over promote and it is horrible for both the student and the sport.
What are your thoughts on attendance based promotion in relation to this topic? The place I train at has moved to an attendance based promotion concept. I disagree because people learn at different rates. Just because I've attended X number of classes does not mean that I have acquired the skill required. As an older guy, I realize it takes me longer to grasp concepts and incorporate into my game. I'm currently purple belt and it's been that way for me. It just seems that promotion based on X number of classes does not correlate to mastery of technique. There are people that are better and they appear to get held back simply due to attendance based promotions. I respect your opinions in the business of BJJ, so would be interested in your thoughts.
Our academy has implemented an attendance policy to be eligible for next promotion, but it’s still up to the Professor if/when he promotes students. There’s a computer at the front desk for check-ins, and it shows how many classes you’ve done. I think it’s more to help encourage people to keep training than anything else. Most people quit training martial arts in less than a year.
Its funny that you post this one tonight.I was talking to a friend at the gym tonight and we were talking about some of the guys who have left to other gyms and he said one of the reasons was that some think we wait to long to promote people. Was crazy to hear considering I got my purple close to a year and a half ago which still doesnt feel right so I felt if anything we promoted people quicker than later but apparently im the only who thought that.
i agree with you that its a balance. for me, being such a goal oriented person for my personal motivation, it can be hard, however i do see how being delayed can help. when you mentioned fun in the sun stuff i took it more as when you get comfortable and are near the top, you arent overwhelmed and (over)reacting as much. so it allows you to have the breathing room to try new things and develop some of your weaker areas, knowing you have some go-tos that can get you out of trouble. vs if you get promoted right when you get there, you are back in survival land with people that are more experience so it might hinder any "a-ha" moments that you may have gotten. I would see the being held back at the end (not getting your black belt when you hit all of the requirements) being more of a predatory thing. most martial artist understand black belt isnt the end of the journey, it means you have a strong foundation and can hold your own enough to really explore things and explore higher level concepts. great video
In my experience, there are some dojo's that focus more on the martial art. There are some dojo's that focus more on business. It's best to find one that sits in the middle or focuses more on the martial art. A harmonious dojo will need to make some business decisions, yet also make martial art decisions. The truth is today it needs to be run as a business sometimes, otherwise the club you know and love will simply close down and cease to exist.
I'd rather work up to the promo, than be given it. Just like you said in one of the videos: make it so people talk about it Got my first stripe (white belt) last week. Took me calendar year. Training 2x/week but had a bunch of lengthy breaks so technically not a full year.
I've been really lucky with respect to gyms. First: South Side Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the Twin Cities (Minnesota). Brasa (Comprido BJJ) in Highwood IL. Bellingham BJJ (Bellingham Washington). All three of these gyms that I have trained at have made profits, but also the coaches genuinely want to see their students improve. I don't see it as a pro or anti capitalism thing, they just love the sport.
this is from a Judo school, I think its very well organized .... THE APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE ALL TECHNIQUES IN A FUNCTIONAL, REALISTIC AND DYNAMIC MANNER, AND WHEN APPLICABLE (AS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE DEMONSTRATION OF THROWING TECHNIQUES) IN A MOVING AND REALISTIC MANNER. 2-BASED ON A SCALE OF 1 (BEING THE LOWEST) UP TO AND INCLUDING 10 (BEING THE BEST), THE APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE A SKILL LEVEL OF AT LEAST A “7.” THIS IS IF THE APPLICANT IS TAKING A TEST AND BEING EXAMINED BY SENIOR COACHES FOR RANK PROMOTION, BUT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE APPLICANT TO DEMONSTRATE THIS LEVEL OF SKILL ON A REGULAR BASIS. NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES) GOALS-EXCELLENT FUNCTIONAL SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING OF THROWING TECHNIQUES. APPLICANT MUST HAVE A GOOD, FUNCTIONAL UNDERSTANDING AND ABILITY AT GRIP FIGHTING AND DEMONSTRATE EFFECTIVE, FUNCTIONAL AND REALISTIC GRIPPING SKILLS WHEN DEMONSTRATING THE FOLLOWING TECHNIQUES LISTED. APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE AND UNDERSTAND CONCEPT OF: KUZUSHI/UNBALANCE TSUKURI/FIT IN KAKE/EXECUTE TECHNIQUE DEMONSTRATON OF NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES) 1-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI IKKYO. 2-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI NIKYO. 3-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI SANKYO. 4-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES THREE (5) TECHNIQUIES FROM THE DAI YONKYO. 5-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES THREE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI GOKYO. 6-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES FIVE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE HABUKARETA WAZA. 7-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES FIVE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE SHINMEISHO NO WAZA. RENRAKU WAZA/ CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TECHNIQUES GOAL-DEMONSTRATE A REALISTIC CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION OF ONE THROWING SKILL TO ANOTHER. 1-DEMONSTRATE A FOOT THROW TO ANY OTHER THROW. 2-DEMONSTRATE A FORWARD THROW TO ANY OTHER THROW. RENRAKU WAZA/ CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TRANSITION FROM STANDING TO GROUNDFIGHTING TECHNIQUES GOAL-DEMONSTRATE REALISTIC TRANSITION FROM A THROW TO GROUNDFIGHTING. 1-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA. 2-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA. 3-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY SHIME WAZA. 3-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA. 4-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA. 5-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY SHIME WAZA. RENRAKU WAZA/CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TECHNIQUES FROM ONE GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL TO ANOTHER GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL GOAL-DEMONSTRATE HOW TO LINK ONE GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL TO ANOTHER, KEEPING CONTROL OF OPPONENT. 1-DEMONSTRATE MUNE GATAME TO ANY OTHER OSAEKOMI WAZA. 2-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY OTHER OSAEKOMI WAZA. 3-DEMONSTRATE A REALISTIC AND FUNCTIONAL CONTINUATION OF 3 OR MORE OSAEKOMI WAZA. 4-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA (PIN TO ARMLOCK). 4-DEMONSTRATE ANY KANSETSU WAZA TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA (ARMLOCK TO PIN). 5-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY SHIME WAZA (PIN TO CHOKE). 6-DEMONSTRATE ANY SHIME WAZA TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA (CHOKE TO PIN). 7-DEMONSTRATE ANY KANSETSU WAZA TO ANY SHIME WAZA (ARMLOCK TO CHOKE). 8-DEMONSTRATE ANY SHIME WAZA TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA (CHOKE TO ARMLOCK). FUSEGI/DEFENSE AND KAESHI WAZA/COUNTER TECHNIQUES FOR NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES) GOAL-DEMONSTRATE REALISTIC DEFENSIVE SKILLS AND COUNTER ATTACKS. 1-DEMONSTRATE HIP BLOCK AND CUT-AWAY AGAINST ANY THROW (TAISABAKI). 2-DEMONSTRATE HOP-AROUND DEFENSE AGAINST ANY THROW (TAISABAKI). 3-DEMONSTRATE HOW TO BLOCK FORWARD THROW AND USE A KAESHI WAZA (COUNTER ATTACK). 4-DEMONSTRATE “SUKASHI” AVOIDANCE OF A FORWARD THROW AND COUNTER ATTACK. KATAME WAZA (GRAPPLING TECHNIQUES) THE KATAME WAZA OF KODOKAN JUDO ARE THE GROUNDFIGHTING OR GRAPPLING TECHNIQUES AND SKILLS. OSAEKOMI WAZA/IMMOBILIZATION (HOLDING OR PINNING) TECHNIQUES GOALS-HAVE FUNCTIONAL SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO HOLD OPPONENT TO THE MAT. BODY POSITION, WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION AND ABILITY TO MAINTAIN A GOOD BASE ARE IMPORTANT. APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE THE FOLLOWING TECHNIQUES. 1-MUNE GATAME/CHEST HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM) 2-KESA GATAME/SCARF HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM) 3-KATA GATAME/SHOULDER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM) 4-YOKOSHIHO GATAME/SIDE 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM) 5-KAMISHIHO GATAME/UPPER 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM) 6-TATESHIHO GATAME/VERTICAL 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) (AND NOGARE KATA) ESCAPE FORM GENERAL NEWAZA SKILLS GENERAL SKILLS AT NEWAZA/GROUNDFIGHTING POSITION, BREAKDOWNS, TURNOVERS, OFFENSE AND DEFENSE WHEN OPPONENT IS POSITIONED ON HANDS AND KNEES, PRONE (0R LYING ON THE FRONT) OR SUPINE (POSITIONED ON THE BUTTOCKS OR BACKSIDE). GOALS-STUDENT MUST POSSESS EXCELLENT FUNCTIONAL ABILITY AT CONTROLLING OPPONENT’S POSITION TO APPLY PINS OR SUBMISSION TECHNIQUES. DEMONSTRATE EXCELLENT ABILITY AT LEG CONTROL, HIP CONTRAL AND HAND CONTROL AND HOW THESE SKILLS CONTROL AN OPPONENT. EFFECTIVE JUDO (IN THIS CASE, GROUNDFIGHTING) IS A SERIES OF CONTROLLING POSITIONS THAT ULTIMATELY LEADS TO DEFEATING HIM. IMPORTANT- (WHEN DEMONSTRATING ALL BREAKDOWNS, GUARD PASSES OR GUARD SWEEPS, APPLICANT MUST IMMEDIATELY AND EFFECTIVELY MOVE INTO ANY PIN, CHOKE OR ARMLOCK OF HIS CHOICE.) DEMONSTRATION OF BREAKDOWNS OR TURNOVERS WHEN OPPONENT IS ON ALL FOURS OR PRONE AND LYING FLAT ON FRONT 1-DEMONSTRATE SEVEN (7) BREAKDOWNS OR TURNOVERS TO PLACE OPPONENT ON HIS/HER BACK FOR AN OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA. APPLICANT IS POSITIONED ON HIS/HER BUTTOCKS OR BACKSIDE IN A SUPINE POSITION (NEWAZA OR “GUARD”) 1-DEMONSTRATE AT LEAST SEVEN (7) METHODS OF SWEEPING, ROLLING OR TURNING OPPONENT OVER OR ONTO HIS/HER BACK TO CONTROL FOR AN OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA. IF APPLICANT IS POSITIONED BETWEEN HIS/HER OPPONENT’S LEGS WHO IS IN A POSITION SEATED ON HIS.HER BUTTOCKS OR BACK (NEWAZA OR COMMONLY CALLED THE “GUARD”). 1-DEMONSTRATE AT LEAST FIVE (5) METHODS TO CONTROL OPPONENT’S LEG(S) TO GET PAST HIS/HER LEGS OR GUARD TO INITIATE OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA. KANSETSU WAZA/JOINT OR ARMLOCK TECHNIQUES GOALS-ABILITY OF APPLICANT TO PERFORM ARMLOCKS IN A FUNCTIONAL WAY. HAVE EXCELLENT SKILLS AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE ROLLS AND SET UPS FOR A VARIETY OF ARMLOCKS. APPLICANT MUST BE ABLE TO PERFORM GOOD SKILL AT ARMLOCK DEFENSES. EXCELLENT SKILL AT LEVERS AND PRYING ARM FREE TO APPLY JUJI GATAME. 1-UDEHISHIGI JUJI GATAME (JUJI GATAME)/CROSS-BODY ARMLOCK APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF JUJI GATAME. 2-UDE GARAMI/ARM ENTANGLEMENT (BENT ARMLOCK) A-BASIC FROM TOP IN THE “UP” POSITION. B-BASIC FROM TOP IN THE “DOWN” POSITION. APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF UDE GARAMI. 3-WAKI GATAME/ARMPIT LOCK APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF WAKI GATAME. 4-UDE GATAME/ARM LOCK (STRAIGHT ARMLOCK) 1-DEMONSTRATE THE BASIC FIGURE-4 VARIATION. 2-DEMONSTRATE THE BASIC BOTH HANDS ON ELBOWS VARIATION. APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF UDE GATAME. APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE AT LEAST ONE (1) NOGARE KATA (DEFENSE FORM) FOR EACH OF THE FOUR CORE KANSETSU WAZA OF JUJI GATAME, UDE GARAMI, WAKI GATAME AND UDE GATAME. SHIME WAZA/STRANGLING AND CHOKING TECHNIQUES GOAL-HAVE FUNCTIONAL SKILL IN STRANGLES AND CHOKES, KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF SAFETY WHEN USING CHOKES AND ABILITY TO USE POSITION TO SET UP THE STRANGLE OR CHOKE. APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE THE FOLLOWING SHIME WAZA AND AT LEAST ONE (1) FUNCTIONAL VARIATION OF EACH. 1-HADAKA JIME/NAKED CHOKE (SQUARE GRIP) 2-HADAKA JIME/FIGURE 4 VERSION NAKED STRANGLE 3-JUJI JIME/CROSS CHOKE FROM BOTTOM 4-JUJI JIME/CROSS CHOKE FROM TOP ON THE JUJI JIME SERIES, APPLICANT MUST ALSO DEMONSTRATE THE 3 BASIC HAND POSITIONS FOR APPLYING THE STRANGLE. 1-NAMI (NORMAL) POSITION. 2-GYAKU (REVERSE) POSITION. 3-KATA (HALF AND HALF OR CROSSED) POSITION. 5-OKURI ERI JIME/SLIDING LAPEL CHOKE (BASIC APPLICATION) 6-KATA HA JIME/SINGLE WING CHOKE (BASIC APPLICATION)
of course one would adapt for they want from their BJJ Practitioner but sometimes I feel like people have no idea why or how the promotions work in BJJ
I have done jiu-jitsu for 13 years now. I'm currently a blue belt. I was with the same school for 12 and helped coach and even teach classes. I paid full price for my membership and never got paid for when I taught. I showed interest in opening my own school one day as I was coaching for them and never got a promotion after. It took 7 years to get my blue belt and I have been a blue belt for almost 6 years now. As I moved to my new school I help coach and teach but now I get paid as well. There are a lot of politics in martial arts and that can make it difficult.
I like getting time at each belt to get used to the competition. So far, it's helped tremendously. In fact, I usually do well in higher belt tournaments immediately after promotion. Don't worry about belts guys. They will come. The skill is more important.
Great video, very interesting... made me think of something... There is a weird tradition some judo gyms do where you get to fight 5 people of your rank or above one after the other... And if you do well enough(that means winning with not much effort), you get promoted... I think that is an interesting way to know where you are at... Can you beat 5 people of your own belt rank in a row without much effort? Then probably you are above that rank...
Once I considered joining a Jiu-Jitsu school run by a married couple from Brazil (she was a former world champion). After attending a few months, it was belt promotion time. The head instructor announced that those promoted must pay $75 per stripe, $150 per belt. It was stunning and unexpected. Luckily I wasn’t picked for promotion.
Great video. In my experience I've seen more gyms give attendance belts not rewarding belts off of skill and ability but rather off how many classes they are attending. Imo that is way worse.
I think the person who has been training for 10 months might be a bit premature in suggesting he is or will be held back. Typically 2 years is considered average for blue belt. Also, maybe his tournament success has been due to small number of competitors, strength instead of technique, wrestling or judo background. Also, I think holding people back can be a risk as you may lose people to other gyms or frustration. So I doubt holding back is a profit driven thing (in most cases). Honestly who cares if a gym has a few more white belt gold medal results at tournaments. Is anyone selecting a gym based on how many golds the white belts are getting? I think charging for gradings might be a profit thing. Unless you get a nicer than basic belt. Or registration fees. Or make you buy their uniform or gear. Mind you if you compete you should rep your gym with patches or gear. Trying to sell people on contracts. Again it's a fine line. One can probably argue instances where the aforementioned are okay. Ultimately I think it has to do with intentions. If the reasoning is for the students best interest than it is not a problem.
I hear you about the schools that are just in it for the money. We had a Tae Kwon Do school here in Memphis that was the same way back in the 1980s. It was a machine. Black belt in 2 years. I think there were 6-10 locations in Memphis at its peak. Of course, a key part of it was the monthly fees, testing fees, and you had to go to (and pay for) every tournament that the leader held. I think he had a tournament every 2-3 months. Oh, these were essentially "promotion" tournaments. Just about everyone who attended got a promotion of some kind. Sometimes even if you didn't go to that school (yeah, I know, it was crazy)! His black belts were, to say the least, sketchy. Their forms were sad and their sparring even worse. They were "good" against others in the school, but when opened up to the other schools in Memphis, they suffered. Which is why, I suppose, they didn't go to many tournaments other than the school-sponsored tournaments (other schools had to apply to attend). Don't get me wrong, there were a FEW really good students at each level. They tended to be the "natural athletes" and hardcore trainers (at every class as opposed to the "required" 2 times a week). On the other hand, I had to struggle with the idea that, yes, there was a definitely "dilution" of the worth and skills of becoming a black belt, at least in Memphis, at the time. BUT there were A LOT of people who got more self-defense training than would have without this school. Sure, against anyone with any real skills, they would have trouble, but against someone with no training, they would be able to make a better defense as opposed to just being a victim. And on the other, other hand, there were many who thought they were "all that and a bag of chips" who got creamed because their personal perception was not where it should of been. But BJJ is different. You get immediate, and constant, feedback on what will, and will not, work. I heard, back when I first started BJJ (about 15 years ago), that the Machado brothers had a sign over their training room entrance that said, "I am a shark, the floor is my ocean, and most people don't even know how to swim". How true that statement was. I studied BJJ for about 20 months before I had to quit due to a knee replacement (I'm thinking of starting back up again at almost 59 year old (next month), but during that time I found out how true that statement is. During the time I studied, I learned how true that was and that, though I finally reached blue belt just before the knee replacement, I had just barely learned how to tread water! Heck, even a "guppy" could "swim" far better than most people who just walked in the door. There are definite downsides to "money machine" BJJ, but, unlike many other martial arts, the immediate and constant feedback HELPS to minimize those downsides of the approach of the money hungry. My $.02...
In our Gracie Garage we follow the Gracie Combatives program, which has 36 set techniques to get to Blue belt. This is the case for every stripe and every belt all the way up to Black belt. Because of this, we don't have the issue where a coach could somehow hold us back; we just climb thru the curriculum and do the test; if we pass, then we move up. This removes the possibility of being at the mercy of your coach's whims and puts you, the student, in the driver's seat for your own progress. I prefer this, as I've trained in places where I never knew when I would get another stripe or my next belt, especially in Kickboxing. Note that we focus on self defense GJJ, not sport BJJ, so we don't go to competitions.
@@kylefee4822 depends how often you train. you can finish the Blue belt in 6 to 8 months if you train three times a week. After that it gets more complex, it can take 2 years or more to get to Purple belt. All the way to black usually takes around 7 years.
(It's a long comment but bare with me) I agree that faster belt promotions is actually more of a sign of shady business. I have been training in karate for about 20 years and hold a 3rd degree black belt. I remember my earlier belt tests being very tough and demanding, and sometimes people were held back because they simply were not ready. More and more, I see tests becoming easier, sometimes they don't even include sparring, and people get promoted when they aren't necessarily ready from a technical stand point (in my opinion). They get scheduled for belt tests every 3-4 months on average and it seems like everyone passes the test regardless of how they perform, as long as they put in some effort. The head instructor articulates this as an encouragement for personnal development, since most people are training recreationally and aren't necessarily concerned with competing or being effective in a fight, they just want to have fun in a social environment where they can exercise and train in something different. That being said, I feel like we are losing the essence of martial arts and that it's a bit misleading as it is advertised as self-defense. The techniques are legit, and the instructor's skills are legit, but the belt promotion system isn't really reprensentative of people's skills. What are your thoughts on this? Mcdojo or not?
I always see the belt progression like life. When you’re a white belt you’re a kid that just wants to be an adult, then by the time you’re at purple you wish you had more time as a white belt
It doesn't make any sense that a professor would hold off on promoting to make more money unless you're going to quit as soon as you earn that belt. As Chewy said, it makes a lot more sense to promote quicker if the goal is for the gym to make money.
I feel like the gym I go to is so cheap and affordable. Several of his students regularly earn gold at competitions, which is nice to see as a new student. Idk how he does it honestly.
A lot of layers in my couple yr experience: You have to buy a new color Gi at the traditional Jiu-Jitsu curriculum halfway point and the price goes up. You can't use either of those Gis for BJJ. I started skipping belt test week classes and rolled or practiced kicks downstairs. I would be cut loose for training w an old schoolmate I ran into who was learning kickboxing in another gym (we weren't from this city). -My instructors also had my schoolmates same coach prepare them in the same alternative gym for their fights during this time. We were shown techniques and then told "you have 60 seconds to master this. Go!" ...Then we moved on. Hard to learn the nuances that make fundamentals effective in a 20min lesson that examines 4 or 5 techniques ...unless you paid for $100/hr privates. -It wasn't until I got DVDs of Danaher and the like that allowed me to become more effective. Seeing us practice these techniques at our own device also did not go over well (it was slipping and counter exercises a la Anderson Silva instructionals) I saw a great competitors match get thrown at the behest of our coach. It was between his longest tenured and highest skilled pupil, and head instructor of one of the other locations. Armbar from guard didn't sink in and the arm was just about free to start punching. Whilst standing over / stacking the grounded attacking opponent, Ref said he tapped. Both opponents said it didn't happen. But the coach said "No its okay just let it go." The ref looked a little uncomfortable. Guy is like "I paid to be here. I didn't tap. You owe me a fight." Opponent: "he didn't tap." Coach: Just let it go. We also didn't compete in many of the same tournaments as other competitive local gyms. Not much actual gym access. Need a another membership in a normal gym and a friend to roll w. I couldn't afford two. I was accommodated well. For instance, they let me do strength and conditioning part of kickboxing class before I actually upgraded to BJJ inclusive membership which gets you beginner kickboxing class access. But I could barely afford to attend so part of the accommodation was probably to keep me coming.
I went to Gracie Barra when I moved into my university's city. It was £150 ($170) for the gi which you had to wear. It was £72 ($80) a month, to train whenever. As a white belt, they do not recognise any outside achievement and put you in the bottom category, with other below 3 stripe white belts. This includes fresh day 1'ers. You were supposed to collect your attendance card at the front and give it to the coaches who mark off your attendance. The card displayed when your next stripe could be at the earliest. I hated rolling with day 1 guys because I never knew if I should go full speed and thus crush these guys, or be nice and let them work. Even worse was we could only do situational sparring, and you never changed out partners. Just the one guy you were training with all session. I found myself trying to crush these guys to impress the coach in order to get my stripes. I got my first stripe after 1.5 years of training bjj (3mo at gb). Then I just wanted to get my next 2 stripes to get into the higher up class. This whole time I was paying £72 a month and then found out I would continue to be charged over summer even though I wasn't in the city to train. I tried to go to a local Gracie Barra since they claimed your membership was valid at any GB gym but the coach at my local was shady and sent his pregnant secretary/ front of office to inform me I could not train here. When I tried to cancel my membership there was a 2-month period before I could really cancel meaning I was forced to pay in £144 before I could leave. Looking at it now it was a total scam. They lead you along with stripes and suppress growth until you get into the higher up category, where you still have to pay absolutely extortionate prices a broke student like me could never afford. If they do womens sessions and kid sessions cool, but it's clearly for people of a wealth and prestige different to mine. I now train at Paul daley's gym and pay £25 a month for 12 sessions. Even if there isn't the depth of skill at least there is flexibility. GB is like a religion. I can't believe I ever bowed to a f***ing framed picture of Helio Gracie. Bonus: a friend who still trains there told me he was charged £40 for a pair of shorts he had to have in order to train nogi. 40 on some shorts because the gym says so. Speaks for itself
Started at 52-train 2x a week (maybe 3) even I know I'm not ready for my stripe....and I'm totally ok with that. My coaches and the people who go there are great. Formula bjj in Plymouth, MI
you have 100% the right balance in running your business.........Paying for those kids tourney fees is a class move! A LOT of gym owners would NOT do that
I've never felt like I've been taken advantage of by a gym. I do feel like the prices have "inflated" over the past 15 years or so. I don't know how we went from $25/month to $200/month to train in almost identical gym setups :D
Gyms would go out of business if they had to charge 20 bucks if you have 200 students and that’s a if that would only be 60,000 before expenses rent marketing etc
As a new student in BJJ I would hope my professor would promote me when it time to be promoted and if I'm truly ready to be. If and when I get promoted to blue belt, I would hope my professor Brent has no doubt in his mind that I am blue material, otherwise we are both cheating ourselves out of the sole purpose of BJJ, to grow and develop the right way
Yeah hey Chewy 2 stripe white belt here. I think I should have gotten my purple belt last promotion and they’re just holding me back to make money off me. They don’t even understand like when I get mad I just see red bro, similar to the color of the belt I will have by this time next year. 😎 Obviously all jokes lol long time viewer, love your channel, love your products too, and I’m actually really happy with how my gym promotes people. I’ve been to gym where they’re a belt factory and it’s robbing that person of their respect. Now they have to deal with being a shitty blue or purple belt or whatever and they never even asked for it haha.
As a taekwondo school "owner" (I use quotes there because there are 3 black belts at my school and I prefer to think we all own it, my name is just on the legal stuff), this is a pendulum I struggle with a lot. Other school owners that have mentored me over the years constantly give me flack for not promoting my students, dangling that carrot, yet when we all go to competitions, my students always get podium finishes. I factor in the maturity of the student into whether they should be testing just as if not more so than the skills and knowledge. My bjj school (Im just a student there) is completely 501(c) and doesnt charge any membership or testing fees because they are all grant based and the buliding space is donated.
Hi chewy, I definitely felt I was prematurely promoted to blue because of said business practices. I have doubts as it was a well respected gym (where some killers came from) but I’m only now coming to acknowledge my blue belt status. I wonder if you have any insight on imposter syndrome
This is normal. I think most of us go through this. But if you are in a reputable gym, trust in your coach. If your coach says you're a blue belt, then you're a blue belt.
To be a real blue belt you need at least 1 year and a half of practice every week (without interruption) 3 to 4 times a week, have you done enough work ? Well i think you would know very fast by simply winning comps or at least being able to do podiums easily
@@williamm4366 so the gym i go to is an interesting case because we have a few one year blue belts and we also have tests for higher belts but you're not charged for the test. A lot of these one year blue belts though are i would assume legit since when i was still training with them we would be doing at some points multiple classes daily, so 10+ 1 hour classes weekly. I among others who were training constantly quickly caught up to higher white belts and some fresh blue belts. I'm still white sadly due to external reasoms forcing me to stop jujitsu currently but the dudes who were one year blue belts to me deserve it since i had experienced with them putting in 10 hours plus in weekly training. Also the gym i was at did fairly well against other schools
Competing as a white belt definitely built my confidence before competing as a blue belt. Also I rolled under coaches who didn't believe in stripes so that was a bummer. Just forget about the belt and focus on the movements. Its a process.
I like the traditional sambo way of grading, win 6 competitions, then you can level up, some people will never compete or they will just be shit at competing so 2 or more years per belt should be for them... but if you can win 6 comps at what ever belt you are at, then get the next belt, no need to hold you back even if it only takes a few months.
My coach makes us earn our stuff and has high standards. Wants to make sure we are READY for that next belt division. Sometimes it’s frustrating and my ego tells me I am getting held back but I gotta be careful what I ask for cause my first blue belt match may be against someone about to get their purple. Keep the focus and keep digging, and he is super integral so I don’t think it’s a money thing.
I think a good BJJ gym can do both: be a great instructor and a good business person that charges the right amount. My professor is great and we have plenty of students. A lot of it is the culture. Its not cheap either. $180/month in south Florida. But he doesn't push merchandise. He had two seminar taught by Romulus Barra and Felipe Pena. Each was $75. More than reasonable for those names. It was 3 hours long each seminar. Regarding belts, our Professor tells us we will have them longer than the GB requirement, but will promote based on what he believes our potential is vs where we were when we started. I think thats fair.
To me, it seems insane that someone thinks people would quit after getting their black belt or whatever. As if there are people "ya, I finished jiu-jitsu. Time to move on."
Holding someone back in Jiu Jitsu is definitely not a money grab. We have one other martial arts gym in my town and it is definitely a mcdojo. Constant belt promotion and they all cost money for the grading and belt and if you want to compete then you have to pay the instructors travel and hotel fees. Must only wear their gi. On the flip side, my instructor doesn't even charge us for belts, which I honestly wouldn't mind paying for.
Very good point. I know some places don't charge black belts to train but considering it takes a solid decade or more to reach that level and you can't fake being a black belt in BJJ like other arts, your observation is spot on.
Hello Chewy, I am currently a college student with a plan to start BJJ in the fall. I also want to take another fighting styling like wrestling (at my college) or kickboxing at the same time. My question is what would be a better second style to learn? Wrestling or Kickboxing?
I do not have much understanding but purely from the method : if you spend 2 yrs in each belt plus a little set back here and there, - you shall get your belt by 9/10 of practice time, all tho if you do it 2/3 times a week or you do it 4/5 + …. U get what you put in right :)))))
This is a quality vs quantity debate at its roots.I'd rather have quality instructions and a stable structure to get to the end goal. What good is it if you reach your goal without ever actually earning it? Take pride in your work and your education, steady and slow, take in the philosophy and instructions and EARN that belt or goal. I'd rather be a blue belt that could beat any other instructors brown belts than say I'm a black belt yet can't hold my own with a Gracie purple belt. again, quality over quantity, or rather quality over quicker learning.
I got my blue belt pretty early and everything you said applies but honestly I don't mind because blue is a pretty color and it looks good on me. Hope I don't get promoted to purple too fast, though.
Personally, I'd want to go to a gym that promotes a little quicker than a little slower. The belt progression is a drive for me -- at least in the lower belts. If I can prove I know what I'm doing at a low belt and have mastered the basics then I don't want to shine in the sun as a skilled white belt. I want that blue belt that acknowledges I've learned the basics. I don't mind shine in the sun as a blue belt or purple belt. I probably wouldn't want to shine in the sun as a brown belt either and would prefer to get the black belt instead of "shining".
I prefer to be “hold back” and actually been able to hold my own once I get promoted than been promoted prematurely. I was a white belt for almost 3 years and I didn’t felt I was hold back, I simply was a slow learner when I started Jiujitsu, the fact that my coach took a relatively long time to promote actually increased my confidence that I earned my blue belt when I was finally promoted (2 stripes blue belt currently).
2.5+ years is standard at my school unless you win tournaments, then you can get blue in 1 year. The other belts are all up to skill and have specific requirements
I'm going on 3 years almost. I'm a slow learner my self but I know if and when I earn my blue belt I know I truly earned it
It'll be 2 years as a white belt in November. Definitely glad it's taking a while to get promoted. Any advice dealing with others calling you a sand bagger? Just been ignoring them lately.
@@fupasaan If they call you a sandbagger take it as a compliment. Is definitely better to be called a sandbagger than not been able to hold your own against others in your rank.
@@pablotirado3993 definitely I was super pumped the first few times. It just gets old after a while. I will definitely just look at is as a compliment from now on tho. I'm just worried it'll get to my head and my ego will inflate.
Fine line coaches/profs have to walk between "holding back" for confidence and sandbagging. Most profs/coaches I've seen promote based on what they genuinely believe is earned.
Sure. Sandbagging can be a problem for sure.
I used to worry about my now 10-yr-old having gotten promoted too often (and too soon) based on attendance alone: you attended, you got stripes and promotions. He lost his first 18 or so out of 20 or so comp matches. But over the past few months, things have really started to click for him. He had an in-house tournament and went against a kid 50 lbs heavier (muscle, not fat) and managed to get a submission and beat the bigger, older, more experienced kid using technique. So on the flip side of sandbagging is that others who are afraid of being promoted, do or can rise to the level of their competition.
This topic reminds me of my first gym. The head owner/instructor was a business shark, they had the stripe and belts tests, which cost money ($25 and $35 respectively). The “test” is you demonstrating techniques in front of the class, and the techniques are printed out for you based one your current level, and each stripe had a certain number of classes required before you could take the test.
Also, almost no rolling to speak of, at least during class. Sometimes you’d get a few people after class getting some rolls in. And i never saw the instructor roll with any student, and he insisted the students call him “professor.”
Needless to say, i got wrecked at competitions. It wasn’t until i found my current gym that i realized how much of a McDojo that was, and my game has skyrocketed since I’ve been at my current gym
I still see the old students at comps sometimes and yeah they don’t do too well unfortunately, i hope they watch this vido
what's the gyms name and location?
@@kenseisato1989 the gym in question is called NWFA in portland Oregon
@@thegreyocelot Just checked it out. A lot of name dropping, the names he strongly ties himself to the most is by business orientated people. His Bjj leanage is questionable as he doesn't have a timeline of when he got his belts but just his black belt. Doesn't have a set price(red flag) I can tell this man definitely uses martial arts as a business first.
The “paying for belt/stripe tests” thing was always what was the decider for me. If belt assessments are freely given on merit it’s not a mcdojo.
I didnt know people paid for belts or stripe tests
@@griffenatekevinbacon Yeah unfortunately that's a thing some places. It's definite McDojo shit
@@Anthony_Garcia_ my gym just gives us it at a seminar once every year if the coach felt we earned it.
@@Anthony_Garcia_ deffinetly strange
Personally...having been a blue belt for 5 years now training 3 days week minimum. My BIGGEST FRUSTRATION has been the communication about promotion. The unspoken rule is "dont ask about it" so I dont. Promotion day comes and goes all my peers get promoted and I am left. For about 3 years now without fail. Normally afterwards I get a gym fellow asking "whats going on? Why are you not promoted." I have no idea, no direction, and cant ask about it. Jiu jitsu is stupid and backwards in this aspect. I have been held back so long it is discouraging.
The black belt I trained with says his longest belt was his blue belt. Bet your coach just wants you to be the baddest blue belt (or purple belt for that matter) around. Don’t stress it one bit. You’ll probably sail through brown belt when you get there.
tournament are a great way to see what you need to work on and as a Blue belt there is nothing that says you can't compete in the advance which is what some blue belts do at my gym. There is also the absolute. once you know the gaps in your game it's easier to ask why something is going wrong then work on improving that aspect of your game, at least this is what work for me.
@@JoseJimenez-gl1zo last touney I did I subbed everyone in both divisions and did not get a single point scored in me. Explain that.
@@Bhanna4d great job! We have blue belts trying to do the john wick thing and compete in both intermiate then advance in both no gi and gi some are trying to add the absoulate division as well (25+ fight in a day). I am a little older so I an just going to hit master and possible the regular adult in both no gi and gi (only 20 fights). How many fights are you getting in the tournament?
Sounds like you don't have the best school
This is a hard struggle as a coach. You want your students to understand you're truly wanting them to be able to hold their rank for confidence.
When I first started training in Jiu Jitsu I told myself, “You’re doing this for the rest of your life. You’ll get your black belt one day.” 13 years later and that day finally came.
This is a great video. You make some very valid points. Thank you. Unfortunately you’re correct about the quality of most of the students that come from schools that charge for stripes and belts. Since there’s so many schools these days I’d encourage anyone to not sign any agreements until you feel a school would be a good fit for you.
Your students are lucky to have you! I love your channel. 🤙🏼
I love hearing you talk about this. I have done martial arts my whole life and I have experienced a great gym where it eventually closed because, though he was a great instructor, he was a bad business man and people took advantage. I have seen the money grabbing McDojos. My current bjj coach I believe hits the sweet spot. He knows his worth so he charges what some think is a lot. But he gives great value and never hard sells any merchandise or seminars.
JB agrees with you J B.
Sorry to hear about your old gym shutting down. Sad to hear.
@@JBDacasinJr haha
Chevy... You remind me my kickboxing coach who used to train me in my late teens. He also paid for my tournaments. He was so humble and inspiring person. He changed me so much as I was from family without father growing up on criminal neighbourhood. Needless to say ive become 3 times national champion and 4 consecutive years member of the National team. I am so glad my life path crossed with him. God bless you Chevy
It took me roughly 2 years to get my blue belt at one of the “talent factory” gyms in Los Angeles. I trained often and had a wrestling background and saw a lot of dudes that I started with get their blues before I did. I would beat them in sparring pretty consistently, competed well, and even gave the majority of purple belts a fair amount of trouble.
It was common practice at this gym to do belt promotions at seminars and I was vehemently against this because I didn’t want to “pay for my belt” so to speak and I was afraid that paying to go to a seminar and getting the next belt made it a hollow symbol. Anyway, one day after training my professor made it very well know that the reason he had held me back was because I was relying far too much on my wrestling background and was not opening up my game. In response to this, I worked my defense and guard for about 8 months and got my blue randomly after training one day.
Sometimes we just have massive holes in our game that haven’t been able to be exposed yet because competencies in other areas have been enough to mask these holes thus far. Just some food for thought. Great video Chewy, definitely agree with letting your guys season at their current level before throwing them to the sharks all over again. 🤷♂️
The best promotion system I’ve seen is curriculum-based testing. To get 1 stripe on your white belt, you have to know how to perform a set list of techniques. This eliminates the “you get promoted when you can submit the next belt up” and attendance based promotions. It’s a shame that so few BJJ schools actually have a curriculum.
Some people can perform a move perfectly in drilling. But can’t hit it for shit live tho.
@@BobBob-il2ku Some people are naturally athletic or have backgrounds in wrestling or whatnot and can submit or hold their own against higher level belts. So, do you promote them because they can submit a higher level belt even though they still lack a lot of BJJ skills? Or do you keep them as a white belt for 3 years because you don't promote any white belt until after 3 years? Or do you promote them when they can demonstrate that list of techniques that every white belt is expected to know? Or maybe a combination of the three options is best? Then again, what about the 55 year old overweight guy, or 20 year old skinny girl, etc. people who against others in class are stuck at the "hit it for shit live" level because their competition is also improving but even faster. How do you promote them?
@@daithi1966 in judo it used to be that practitioners were set to fight for each belt colour. So as a white belt to get yellow belt you would have to win 3 competition matches against yellow belts, and so on. to get a black belt 3 wins by ippon to get a belt - that is still the case today. it made sense but like you say that excludes people that may have had good technical knowledge but were not as practical and basically not as good fighters. but all the technique in the world means nothing if you cant implement it in actual competition or sparring. But obviously now belt system is used to lure wannaby black belts and make money of it as people would like to have a prestige of having a black belt but without necessarily having have to fight for it. belt like that is worthless anyways
in werestling there are no belts and when i trained and competed as a child the only motivation was to win the matches and not psychological belt systems.
As a gym owner I agree with chew. Holding you back is about ensuring you grow into your belt and can handle the next. Money and making money off them isn't even a thought. It's about fostering development and growth. Some move quicker than others.
The expansion of the belt ranks most martial arts experienced in the 90's is often referred to as the revenue rainbow (more belt colors, more belt testing fees) this was not only a method of revenue generation, but originally considered a method of student retention as the students would get more "instant gratification". In time, the concept of "Black Belt Programs" (ie paid in full contracts) was implemented which lead to higher price points as opposed to a standard annual contract. Once the student had paid that "Black Belt Contract Fee" it became beneficial for the students to be rushed through the process to make room for the next wave. Thus the common principle of the 2-3 year black belt in so many martial arts.
That being said...I agree with you, financial greed is far more likely to lead to quicker promotions rather than rank being withheld.
I think you're a very generous person for paying for some of your students to compete! I also think your approach is the way to go. Jumping to fast to an higher belt can be detrimental to the development of a student.
I've been practicing karate for 12 years and boxing for 4 years and never once was it feeling like my coaches or sensei were trying to hold me back to make money on my back. To run a martial art school, I think you need to be passionate about it, otherwise it will shows.
I wish there was a BJJ gym around where I live, but they ain't any close. I rolled only once with people at an MMA class and I really liked it even tho I did not know what I was doing for the most part haha.
I really like these videos ;)
I have to agree with Chewy on the whole pushing the bjj belts thing. This gym I was training at for a year had a HUGE turnover of students after their old coach left and a lot of the classes had mostly white belts. Because of this, they promoted their current students lightning fast promoting guys to blue belts in 6 months to make their gym look better. I even saw a purple belt get 3 stripes at once and it wasn't uncommon to see people get 3 or 4 stripes at once. The money hungry gyms will promote their guys FASTER, rather than hold them back.
From a consumer's standpoint: would you rather go to the gym with only white belts or the gym with a bunch of blue, and purple belts?
A mix honestly, to many higher belts and I’ll feel out of place
It’s Ethan from the medal winning video, cool video. I definitely agree, I feel in no way my coach is money hungry. I know for a fact if he gave more belts and stripes he would make more money because people would stay, but I think letting people who are impatient quit is key to running a successful gym. Thanks for the content🔥🔥🥇
I have been a part of big bjj club that had very structured way of promoting- based on attendance cards and pretty much computer system was reminding head coach when they are due their blue belt. Blue belt promotion was made into a big thing - each person had to give a speech and it was kind of big ceremony.
I have since left the club to good competetive judo club but also considering eventually joining local small but competition based bjj club in addition to Judo - im now coming to conclusion that smaller competition oriented bjj clubs offer more quality instructions as their techniques are constantly being tested in competition and rolling is usually a bit higher intensity which seem to be just more realistic( i love energy of wrestling and judo sparring hence why intense, fast paced rolling sessions are very appealing to me), and also smaller clubs despite sometimes being run buy brown belt or even purple still do not lack quality as those instructors usually want to prove themselves and give more to their students at lower price. So opposite seems to be the case to what I initially thought. I do find BJJ overpriced in comparison to Judo or wrestling for instance but i do know it may not be a fair comparison. Nevertheless BJJ has a great marketing machine behind itself which raised a demand for it and therefore its prices allowing to become this overpriced product- this is my subjective opinion, but being a family man and recreational practitioner these day every penny counts and i always want to make sure that what im paying for is value for money and at a minute wrestling and judo is in my subjective opinion much more value for money - although ic an see how a lot of mid age recreational practitioners would chose bjj over Judo or wrestling: those are high impact sports with considerable higher risks of injury in not practiced responsibly so BJJ is great sport for pensioners
I think you're right. If you want to get good, go for a place where they roll hard and compete. If you're in it for the hype, go ta a business.
This was possibly exactly what I’ve needed to hear. I’m a white belt 4 stripe, training for roughly a year and have been fairly dominant in sparring with higher ranks while picking up new techniques rather quickly and consistently executing my favorites with high finishing percentage. Other white belts began to outrank me and it was a little confusing. For the last 6 months, my professors have been asking me if I’m competing again soon. I got the hint after a couple months that they wanted me to get another competition in as a white belt before getting a promotion. Finally, they told me outright. Get the experience 👍 Next comp is coming up in a few weeks 🤞
I just got promoted to blue belt after 5 years of training. I wasn't out for any long stretches, I am just a slow learner. but the main thing I learned is that the reward is getting to do Jiu Jitsu. If I am healthy enough to go to class that is all I want. Don't get me wrong, I am very proud of getting this promotion. But if I was still a white belt right now, I would be still be going to class tomorrow regardless. It has never crossed my mind that my rank had anything to do with money. I am sure this is a thing in some gyms, but we all have to roll. and we all know how good we are on the Mats. That is all that really matters. Thank you for the video Chewie
Congrats,
5 years? How old are you and how often were you training (how many times per week)?
I started BJJ in 2009 when I was 16. My parents were very poor and I could only pay for 1 month before it was decided we didn't have money. My coach gave me a key to the gym and told me to clean up after class and I could keep coming. He trusted me with that after only knowing me for 1 month and seeing how much I loved BJJ and Kickboxing. So I attended classes every day after school for hours, and my coach would stay late with me to go over stuff. I advanced very quickly, got my blue belt within 6 months and started helping coach kids classes.
After 3 years of training I was still a blue belt, but I joined the military and didn't return to BJJ until 10 years later. Even after 10 years of not doing this and having a completely different body type my new professor said he could barely tell I took any time off. That's because my gym had high standards for their blue belts, and I want that spirit of BJJ everywhere I go. I WANT the belts to be a representation of the commitment and martial spirit it takes to succeed in one of the last martial arts that maintains it's integrity. "Belts don't matter" is true, but who wears the belt does because we are representatives of BJJ.
I cannot agree more with the confidence. Got injured, took more time to get my confidence back than it did to get over the injury.
My coach doesn't even charge for belt promotions... just come train, pay your monthly dues.... He just loves to be there, loves to train, loves to teach..... We test when we are ready....
Ah so Chewy is all about the sandbagging. You heard it straight from his mouth! I kid.
I will say that while I totally agree that I wish there was some kind of middle ground between the super structured McDojo world and many (most?) gyms where the requirements to get your next belt are completely opaque. I have yet to experience a coach who could sit down and say these are the X number of things that I need to see improvement in for you to get your next belt. I mean, imagine going to college and being told that there was no set curriculum to get your engineering degree, you just take classes (and we won't tell you which ones to take) until at some point you'll suddenly become a sophomore, and there's no visible rhyme or reason, you take 9 months to promote and your friend takes 2 years.
And just to clarify, I'm not at all motivated by the belt progression. I go because it's like therapy, it's my release and I have every intention of going until my body just can't do it anymore regardless of when I finally get my black belt. I just also really dislike the way the belt progression works.
Where I am at, there used to be just the Gracie Barra around. In the last five or so years, there are now a plethora of various gyms ranging from more Gracie Barras to individual businesses. The Gracie Barra was promoting people solely on the basis of attendance, other gyms have done it based upon skill demonstration in rolling over time, and some have explicit tests done at a point where the instructor deems a student to be sufficiently "ready." No "belt test" is supposed to be failed either. If an instructor gives a student a belt test, then the instructor believes the student is ready but wants to formalize it in a ritualistic way (think Roy Dean). I don't think there is a perfect system and I do not necessarily believe time or attendance is the best determinant. Generally, the more time on the mats and the more attendance, then the person will be better and a higher rank sooner - this is not a guarantee. Some people could attend 3-5x a week and still be really misguided (whether they're overall struggling or they're just not a good training partner). I think a big reason people shouldn't be promoted is if their overall mindset about promotion and training is toxic. Consider: I should be promoted cause of X,Y, and Z - why does it really matter though? Is that all jiu jitsu is? Just about the colour belt you wear? Now, I am not saying a belt DOES NOT matter - it does. But a student's mindset about a belt or about training can also reflect immaturity and therefore hold them back from "being promoted." There are a lot of white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts who I enjoy training with cause they are fun to roll with, challenging in constructive ways. Some people, regardless of their current rank, still hold a very toxic mindset around training - unsafe practices, no respect for partner development, etc. Belts should reflect a student's development in the martial ART, so it will always be subjective and variable. Hopefully people are not just paying for a rank.
Belt does not have any meaning other than for practical reason of categorize students based on experienced and skill measured through belt colour system in order to even up the odds for competitors. any other meaning that people add to belts is purely psychological and means absolutely nothing
My coach is notorious for holding belts. He came from a TKD background originally, and he had to watch the black belt become commercialized in it. He usually makes us compete a belt higher than we currently have because of it. It’s also a little different because we are an MMA gym. I can say confidently that it’s not a money issue, though. I don’t pay anymore because I coach the kids’ class, but it still takes me just as much time to be promoted as anyone else.
Spot on brother. I promote the same way you do. I want my guys ready for the next level. I stayed a white belt 3 years, blue 2 , purple 5, brown over 2. It seems that most of the people that complain about the time are not black belts. Just an observation.
The claim makes no sense because it's not like once a person receives their black belt they quit the gym. So there's no monetary benefit to holding students back. If anything, the inverse incentive to fast track them and give them 20 stripes for each belt is a strategy with more of a fiscal incentive.
My gym has two adult promotions per year, and 3 kids. They charge a small evaluation fee for those who want to be considered, which includes a pretty nice certificate and belt. If getting a belt, the coach let's you know before. Our monthly fees are very low, especially if on the family plan. So the additional fee is not a problem. Our gym is fairly competitive, the kids have won every team tournament we have attended for the past 4 years. Adults we don't have too many that compete, but we do well.
I think there are several factors when looking at business practices vs promotions. Competition and open mats tell all, if you are on par then you should perform well enough against other schools. The mat never lies.
How much monthly? My bjj coach carge 60 usd and I can come to any of all sessions throughout the month. If you had the time and energy you could probably participte to 15 sessions each week... My coach says we already pay him for lessons, the least he can do is buy us a belt or just add a small bit of tape for free. Belts don't cost much and demanding money to get "considered" for promotion is a huge red flag to me. I'm so happy my local bjj gym is such a gem
@@deivytrajan I pay $200 for my family of 6. Which is all access to all martial arts offered. Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Grappling, Krave, MMA classes, kick boxing, yoga, weights. There is alot going on and it is all included. Single art is $80, where as the other local gyms charges over $100 and where all trained by our instructor (even the Gracie guy started at our gym and is only a purple belt). There are no red flags here. And same thing if you went to every class, you could attend 15 sessions going M-F, then open mats and seminars on weekends.
Idk where you live, but in California $80 is very affordable. $200 is mind blowing.
When I write "considered," that is my wording, not the gyms, so I could be representing it wrong. Promotions, when we have them, it is a big event and a lot of time a effort goes into it.
I started off as a young kid in what I now know was a McDojo type situation. They had 10 levels between white and black belt. I got through every one, and I got my first black belt at 15 years old (karate) .
I'm currently 37 years old, judo blue belt and BJJ white belt.
I like the much lower emphasis BJJ places on belts compared to other Japanese derived styles.
You talked about how belts can be this carrot people used to push people to continue memberships. This was the explicit goal of adding coloured belts to karate. It was meant to keep children interested by giving them regular goals to aim for.
There's nothing wrong with having goals, but as an adult student I like the lowered emphasis on belts in BJJ. It helps me focus on my growth rather than sticking to an arbitrary plan.
It took me almost 2 years to get my blue and now I’m blue 4th strip it’s been over 5 years and I’m not in a rush to get my purple belt . I have noticed that my instructor puts me against other blue and higher belts and checks if I can survive or be competitive against the higher belts and he knows I’m the oldest member of the academy at 51 . My grand son was placed in a Mcdojo in Oregon Tae Kwon do : they did exactly what you stated every month there is a test and their fight techniques are trash and guarantee a black belt in 3 years. Your right on the money Chewy
I watch your videos because both of my sons do jujitsu. I want to help them with the mentality and if they complain about holes in their rolls. I'm not the atypical parent who shows up at every class to watch I just want to say thank you for all the wonderful advice.
Amazingly accurate video, I implore the same concept and reasoning as you do.
first off, hope your guys have fun in the tournament. it sounds like you have a good balance of business and community support going. when i was younger i used to look down on people who went through the rigors of training in gyms, i thought that the whole system of paying to train was wrong. as i have gotten older i am grateful that we preserve the arts as well as innovate in sport. so if someone can ethically run a gym and make a living doing it, i say more power to them.
For my videos, if there's a negative comment, I check to see if that person has any content on their channel. If not, ignore. If they do, then I'll engage and we'll have a conversation.
I’ve competed 3x and placed in top 3 every time . I am still a white belt even though I can role with much higher belts and get subs . I’ve had refs question my belt level between roles at comps and am having other people in the club tell me my blue belts well overdue . I think now after expecting to be promoted for so long I will milk out my medals for longer 🤩
I really felt what you were saying in this video. Finding that balance between profits and quality. I won't forget the looks on my coach going through covid, how he finally put his foot down in our city and opened the gym back up. This has to be a serious issue for every jiu-jitsu gym owner. I as a hobbyists really don't care how fast or slow I get promoted. The way I see it, the lower my belt rank, the more silly crap I can try out that I saw on RUclips, and not have people disappointed in my foolishness lol.
This is a great video and helps me to understand the differences. I’m very new to BJJ, but while I’m learning techniques, I’m also looking for the meta meanings: the ethos, the opportunities in a roll, the happy warrior mindset. If I were ever in a position to award ranks to students, I’d want all of these things present.
Wow! Reading some of these comments really makes me appreciate my gym. There's a monthly fee, and that's it. Testing for stripes/belts doesn't cost anything extra. Usually, on testing day, after testing, my instructor brings in a higher level black belt to teach a bonus technique, for a small fee but it's not mandatory.
It's great to hear that you are giving back! You seem like a genuinely nice guy
I think this is one of the reasons some combat sports practitioners don't really like the idea of belts. I understand belts are for skill stratification so that there aren't any unfair match-ups in competitions, but the only true indicator of learning is the skill you possess. If people get too held up in the idea of belts, it makes sense that they think they're being held back, rather than reflecting on the skills that they learned and realizing that they have come far from where they started.
My coach says every time we have a belt promotion, the same thing, and it seems cliche but its true. If you got the belt, you now have to keep working to prove that you're that belt; if you didn't get the belt, then you need to keep working to get the belt you think you deserve. Nothing changes. When I got promoted to blue belt, I didn't feel like I was ready but I felt like I had to work to prove that the promotion was deserved. Now that I have been a blue belt for a couple years and may be possibly knocking on the door of purple, eventually, I find myself feeling the same. Spending longer at a belt should be seen as motivation to excel at that belt and not a detriment to the overall goal. I can't imagine getting a new belt and just getting rolled every time on the mat as a result of not being adequately prepared. There are a lot of people in jiu jitsu that are laser focused on belts and promotions/stripes. The journey, imo, is better when you just enjoy what you're doing and keep plugging
I think It's better to give a belt once a person reaches a certain level instead pf trying to "force" them to prove that they deserve the belt. Once you give a belt you can't really take it back so there is no proving left.
Commenting on you holding people from new belts a little longer than average: I think I had my blue belt too early. At some places saying this is an insult as "I should not know better than my instructors" but I could not for the life of me at tap another blue belt. Maybe it happened 3 times? It felt really unearned and embarrassing being this bad with this belt. Combine this with my ADHDish nature => I quit shortly after. After 6 years I decided I go back and I don't really feel like I stress on belts. I am really excited now, that's how I came back on this channel ;) But yeah I think my personality was not mature enough for an early belt promotion. But now I feel like that I just wanna learn and roll.
I’ve seen gyms do promotion nights every 6 months tied to a seminar that costs 60 bucks to attend.
As for holding back. I’ve seen the opposite effect. When blue belts get promoted quickly they disappear. I don’t know if they quite entirely or went to another gym.
As for the brown belt to black belt. There IS a unspoken conflict of interest for a coach to promote a brown to a black. For reasons chewey mention and business. I’ve seen a handful of newly promoted black belts start their own gyms. Promotions should be on merit and skill only but the human element is too powerful here.
Ohhh boy did I ever experience money hunger at that gym. Along w so much other BS. My boy helped purchase some items for the "person in charge" (I cannot say they were a coach).... Because he had great credit the place easily financed the items....so they went thru with it contingent the person in charge of the gym would pay. Well a few months later a letter comes in the mail to his place saying he had defaulted on his payments for like 3 months. He was like WHAAAAAT?? So he contacted the person and the person flat out said they didnt have the money to pay it. And he said "you are gonna ruin my credit". So the person tells him, "just help us out and catch us up then we'll stay on it." At first he said no. That they made a commitment and promised they would keep up with the payments. And the person then responded with "ok well i guess blue belt forever thats all im saying". Just a little fyi that person was not eligible to belt anyone at that time but had a say so in who would get belted and who wouldnt. So ultimately he just paid it off with one payment to avoid issues. That is sad and disgraceful. True story..nothing added and nothing left out.
I’m sure there are some gyms that do that… But, a successful gym will only last as good as the product it puts out.
If the instructor holds people back, many will search out better training.
I take so much pride in the fact that my school/ instructor is slow to promote. We don’t do belt test or charge for promotions. When coach thinks you are ready you will know because that’s the day you receive your stripe or belt. Our gym environment has perfected “belts don’t matter mindset”.
It's only been 5 months of structured training for me. It's gonna be a while until I fully understand all the things there are to BJJ, and problems in the industry.
I've been rolling hard and consistently for 1.5 years. Literally about to compete in a few hours and I'm on the cusp of blue belt.
Thankfully, my professor really believes in representing the sport well. He tends to under promote rather than over promote. Ild rather grind for another year with four stripes on a white belt than promote early and "feel" like a white belt as a blue belt. With in reason, it's a great complaint to hear, "are you still a white belt," from an upper belt.
My wife had the belt mill experience in Taekwondo. I agree 100% it's financially beneficial to over promote and it is horrible for both the student and the sport.
The timing is impeccable
What are your thoughts on attendance based promotion in relation to this topic? The place I train at has moved to an attendance based promotion concept. I disagree because people learn at different rates. Just because I've attended X number of classes does not mean that I have acquired the skill required. As an older guy, I realize it takes me longer to grasp concepts and incorporate into my game. I'm currently purple belt and it's been that way for me. It just seems that promotion based on X number of classes does not correlate to mastery of technique. There are people that are better and they appear to get held back simply due to attendance based promotions. I respect your opinions in the business of BJJ, so would be interested in your thoughts.
Our academy has implemented an attendance policy to be eligible for next promotion, but it’s still up to the Professor if/when he promotes students. There’s a computer at the front desk for check-ins, and it shows how many classes you’ve done. I think it’s more to help encourage people to keep training than anything else. Most people quit training martial arts in less than a year.
Its funny that you post this one tonight.I was talking to a friend at the gym tonight and we were talking about some of the guys who have left to other gyms and he said one of the reasons was that some think we wait to long to promote people. Was crazy to hear considering I got my purple close to a year and a half ago which still doesnt feel right so I felt if anything we promoted people quicker than later but apparently im the only who thought that.
i agree with you that its a balance. for me, being such a goal oriented person for my personal motivation, it can be hard, however i do see how being delayed can help. when you mentioned fun in the sun stuff i took it more as when you get comfortable and are near the top, you arent overwhelmed and (over)reacting as much. so it allows you to have the breathing room to try new things and develop some of your weaker areas, knowing you have some go-tos that can get you out of trouble. vs if you get promoted right when you get there, you are back in survival land with people that are more experience so it might hinder any "a-ha" moments that you may have gotten. I would see the being held back at the end (not getting your black belt when you hit all of the requirements) being more of a predatory thing. most martial artist understand black belt isnt the end of the journey, it means you have a strong foundation and can hold your own enough to really explore things and explore higher level concepts. great video
In my experience, there are some dojo's that focus more on the martial art. There are some dojo's that focus more on business. It's best to find one that sits in the middle or focuses more on the martial art.
A harmonious dojo will need to make some business decisions, yet also make martial art decisions.
The truth is today it needs to be run as a business sometimes, otherwise the club you know and love will simply close down and cease to exist.
I'd rather work up to the promo, than be given it. Just like you said in one of the videos: make it so people talk about it
Got my first stripe (white belt) last week. Took me calendar year. Training 2x/week but had a bunch of lengthy breaks so technically not a full year.
I've been really lucky with respect to gyms. First: South Side Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the Twin Cities (Minnesota).
Brasa (Comprido BJJ) in Highwood IL.
Bellingham BJJ (Bellingham Washington).
All three of these gyms that I have trained at have made profits, but also the coaches genuinely want to see their students improve. I don't see it as a pro or anti capitalism thing, they just love the sport.
this is from a Judo school, I think its very well organized .... THE APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE ALL TECHNIQUES IN A FUNCTIONAL, REALISTIC AND DYNAMIC MANNER, AND WHEN APPLICABLE (AS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE DEMONSTRATION OF THROWING TECHNIQUES) IN A MOVING AND REALISTIC MANNER.
2-BASED ON A SCALE OF 1 (BEING THE LOWEST) UP TO AND INCLUDING 10 (BEING THE BEST), THE APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE A SKILL LEVEL OF AT LEAST A “7.” THIS IS IF THE APPLICANT IS TAKING A TEST AND BEING EXAMINED BY SENIOR COACHES FOR RANK PROMOTION, BUT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE APPLICANT TO DEMONSTRATE THIS LEVEL OF SKILL ON A REGULAR BASIS.
NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES)
GOALS-EXCELLENT FUNCTIONAL SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING OF THROWING TECHNIQUES.
APPLICANT MUST HAVE A GOOD, FUNCTIONAL UNDERSTANDING AND ABILITY AT GRIP FIGHTING AND DEMONSTRATE EFFECTIVE, FUNCTIONAL AND REALISTIC GRIPPING SKILLS WHEN DEMONSTRATING THE FOLLOWING TECHNIQUES LISTED.
APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE AND UNDERSTAND CONCEPT OF:
KUZUSHI/UNBALANCE
TSUKURI/FIT IN
KAKE/EXECUTE TECHNIQUE
DEMONSTRATON OF NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES)
1-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI IKKYO.
2-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI NIKYO.
3-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES EIGHT (8) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI SANKYO.
4-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES THREE (5) TECHNIQUIES FROM THE DAI YONKYO.
5-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES THREE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE DAI GOKYO.
6-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES FIVE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE HABUKARETA WAZA.
7-APPLICANT SELECTS AND DEMONSTRATES FIVE (5) TECHNIQUES FROM THE SHINMEISHO NO WAZA.
RENRAKU WAZA/ CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TECHNIQUES
GOAL-DEMONSTRATE A REALISTIC CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION OF ONE THROWING SKILL TO ANOTHER.
1-DEMONSTRATE A FOOT THROW TO ANY OTHER THROW.
2-DEMONSTRATE A FORWARD THROW TO ANY OTHER THROW.
RENRAKU WAZA/ CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TRANSITION FROM STANDING TO GROUNDFIGHTING TECHNIQUES
GOAL-DEMONSTRATE REALISTIC TRANSITION FROM A THROW TO GROUNDFIGHTING.
1-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA.
2-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA.
3-DEMONSTRATE ANY FORWARD THROW TO ANY SHIME WAZA.
3-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA.
4-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA.
5-DEMONSTRATE ANY REAR THROW OR FOOT SWEEP TO ANY SHIME WAZA.
RENRAKU WAZA/CONTINUATION OR COMBINATION TECHNIQUES FROM ONE GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL TO ANOTHER GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL
GOAL-DEMONSTRATE HOW TO LINK ONE GROUNDFIGHTING SKILL TO ANOTHER, KEEPING CONTROL OF OPPONENT.
1-DEMONSTRATE MUNE GATAME TO ANY OTHER OSAEKOMI WAZA.
2-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY OTHER OSAEKOMI WAZA.
3-DEMONSTRATE A REALISTIC AND FUNCTIONAL CONTINUATION OF 3 OR MORE OSAEKOMI WAZA.
4-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA (PIN TO ARMLOCK).
4-DEMONSTRATE ANY KANSETSU WAZA TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA (ARMLOCK TO PIN).
5-DEMONSTRATE ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA TO ANY SHIME WAZA (PIN TO CHOKE).
6-DEMONSTRATE ANY SHIME WAZA TO ANY OSAEKOMI WAZA (CHOKE TO PIN).
7-DEMONSTRATE ANY KANSETSU WAZA TO ANY SHIME WAZA (ARMLOCK TO CHOKE).
8-DEMONSTRATE ANY SHIME WAZA TO ANY KANSETSU WAZA (CHOKE TO ARMLOCK).
FUSEGI/DEFENSE AND KAESHI WAZA/COUNTER TECHNIQUES FOR NAGE WAZA (THROWING TECHNIQUES)
GOAL-DEMONSTRATE REALISTIC DEFENSIVE SKILLS AND COUNTER ATTACKS.
1-DEMONSTRATE HIP BLOCK AND CUT-AWAY AGAINST ANY THROW (TAISABAKI).
2-DEMONSTRATE HOP-AROUND DEFENSE AGAINST ANY THROW (TAISABAKI).
3-DEMONSTRATE HOW TO BLOCK FORWARD THROW AND USE A KAESHI WAZA (COUNTER ATTACK).
4-DEMONSTRATE “SUKASHI” AVOIDANCE OF A FORWARD THROW AND COUNTER ATTACK.
KATAME WAZA (GRAPPLING TECHNIQUES)
THE KATAME WAZA OF KODOKAN JUDO ARE THE GROUNDFIGHTING OR GRAPPLING TECHNIQUES AND SKILLS.
OSAEKOMI WAZA/IMMOBILIZATION (HOLDING OR PINNING) TECHNIQUES
GOALS-HAVE FUNCTIONAL SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO HOLD OPPONENT TO THE MAT. BODY POSITION, WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION AND ABILITY TO MAINTAIN A GOOD BASE ARE IMPORTANT.
APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE THE FOLLOWING TECHNIQUES.
1-MUNE GATAME/CHEST HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM)
2-KESA GATAME/SCARF HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM)
3-KATA GATAME/SHOULDER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM)
4-YOKOSHIHO GATAME/SIDE 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM)
5-KAMISHIHO GATAME/UPPER 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) AND NOGARE KATA (ESCAPE FORM)
6-TATESHIHO GATAME/VERTICAL 4-CORNER HOLD (AND VARIATION) (AND NOGARE KATA) ESCAPE FORM
GENERAL NEWAZA SKILLS
GENERAL SKILLS AT NEWAZA/GROUNDFIGHTING POSITION, BREAKDOWNS, TURNOVERS, OFFENSE AND DEFENSE WHEN OPPONENT IS POSITIONED ON HANDS AND KNEES, PRONE (0R LYING ON THE FRONT) OR SUPINE (POSITIONED ON THE BUTTOCKS OR BACKSIDE).
GOALS-STUDENT MUST POSSESS EXCELLENT FUNCTIONAL ABILITY AT CONTROLLING OPPONENT’S POSITION TO APPLY PINS OR SUBMISSION TECHNIQUES. DEMONSTRATE EXCELLENT ABILITY AT LEG CONTROL, HIP CONTRAL AND HAND CONTROL AND HOW THESE SKILLS CONTROL AN OPPONENT. EFFECTIVE JUDO (IN THIS CASE, GROUNDFIGHTING) IS A SERIES OF CONTROLLING POSITIONS THAT ULTIMATELY LEADS TO DEFEATING HIM.
IMPORTANT- (WHEN DEMONSTRATING ALL BREAKDOWNS, GUARD PASSES OR GUARD SWEEPS, APPLICANT MUST IMMEDIATELY AND EFFECTIVELY MOVE INTO ANY PIN, CHOKE OR ARMLOCK OF HIS CHOICE.)
DEMONSTRATION OF BREAKDOWNS OR TURNOVERS WHEN OPPONENT IS ON ALL FOURS OR PRONE AND LYING FLAT ON FRONT
1-DEMONSTRATE SEVEN (7) BREAKDOWNS OR TURNOVERS TO PLACE OPPONENT ON HIS/HER BACK FOR AN OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA.
APPLICANT IS POSITIONED ON HIS/HER BUTTOCKS OR BACKSIDE IN A SUPINE POSITION (NEWAZA OR “GUARD”)
1-DEMONSTRATE AT LEAST SEVEN (7) METHODS OF SWEEPING, ROLLING OR TURNING OPPONENT OVER OR ONTO HIS/HER BACK TO CONTROL FOR AN OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA.
IF APPLICANT IS POSITIONED BETWEEN HIS/HER OPPONENT’S LEGS WHO IS IN A POSITION SEATED ON HIS.HER BUTTOCKS OR BACK (NEWAZA OR COMMONLY CALLED THE “GUARD”).
1-DEMONSTRATE AT LEAST FIVE (5) METHODS TO CONTROL OPPONENT’S LEG(S) TO GET PAST HIS/HER LEGS OR GUARD TO INITIATE OSAEKOMI WAZA, KANSETSU WAZA OR SHIME WAZA.
KANSETSU WAZA/JOINT OR ARMLOCK TECHNIQUES
GOALS-ABILITY OF APPLICANT TO PERFORM ARMLOCKS IN A FUNCTIONAL WAY. HAVE EXCELLENT SKILLS AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE ROLLS AND SET UPS FOR A VARIETY OF ARMLOCKS. APPLICANT MUST BE ABLE TO PERFORM GOOD SKILL AT ARMLOCK DEFENSES. EXCELLENT SKILL AT LEVERS AND PRYING ARM FREE TO APPLY JUJI GATAME.
1-UDEHISHIGI JUJI GATAME (JUJI GATAME)/CROSS-BODY ARMLOCK
APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF JUJI GATAME.
2-UDE GARAMI/ARM ENTANGLEMENT (BENT ARMLOCK)
A-BASIC FROM TOP IN THE “UP” POSITION.
B-BASIC FROM TOP IN THE “DOWN” POSITION.
APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF UDE GARAMI.
3-WAKI GATAME/ARMPIT LOCK
APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF WAKI GATAME.
4-UDE GATAME/ARM LOCK (STRAIGHT ARMLOCK)
1-DEMONSTRATE THE BASIC FIGURE-4 VARIATION.
2-DEMONSTRATE THE BASIC BOTH HANDS ON ELBOWS VARIATION.
APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE TWO (2) FUNCTIONAL APPLICATIONS OF UDE GATAME.
APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE AT LEAST ONE (1) NOGARE KATA (DEFENSE FORM) FOR EACH OF THE FOUR CORE KANSETSU WAZA OF JUJI GATAME, UDE GARAMI, WAKI GATAME AND UDE GATAME.
SHIME WAZA/STRANGLING AND CHOKING TECHNIQUES
GOAL-HAVE FUNCTIONAL SKILL IN STRANGLES AND CHOKES, KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF SAFETY WHEN USING CHOKES AND ABILITY TO USE POSITION TO SET UP THE STRANGLE OR CHOKE.
APPLICANT MUST DEMOSNTRATE THE FOLLOWING SHIME WAZA AND AT LEAST ONE (1) FUNCTIONAL VARIATION OF EACH.
1-HADAKA JIME/NAKED CHOKE (SQUARE GRIP)
2-HADAKA JIME/FIGURE 4 VERSION NAKED STRANGLE
3-JUJI JIME/CROSS CHOKE FROM BOTTOM
4-JUJI JIME/CROSS CHOKE FROM TOP
ON THE JUJI JIME SERIES, APPLICANT MUST ALSO DEMONSTRATE THE 3 BASIC HAND POSITIONS FOR APPLYING THE STRANGLE. 1-NAMI (NORMAL) POSITION. 2-GYAKU (REVERSE) POSITION. 3-KATA (HALF AND HALF OR CROSSED) POSITION.
5-OKURI ERI JIME/SLIDING LAPEL CHOKE (BASIC APPLICATION)
6-KATA HA JIME/SINGLE WING CHOKE (BASIC APPLICATION)
of course one would adapt for they want from their BJJ Practitioner but sometimes I feel like people have no idea why or how the promotions work in BJJ
I have done jiu-jitsu for 13 years now. I'm currently a blue belt. I was with the same school for 12 and helped coach and even teach classes. I paid full price for my membership and never got paid for when I taught. I showed interest in opening my own school one day as I was coaching for them and never got a promotion after. It took 7 years to get my blue belt and I have been a blue belt for almost 6 years now. As I moved to my new school I help coach and teach but now I get paid as well. There are a lot of politics in martial arts and that can make it difficult.
If you’ve been going with consistency you’ve been robbed.
That’s an insane amount of time, I’m sorry.
I like getting time at each belt to get used to the competition. So far, it's helped tremendously. In fact, I usually do well in higher belt tournaments immediately after promotion. Don't worry about belts guys. They will come. The skill is more important.
Saved by the Bell Chewy shirt, nice
Of course they do. Biggest sham is paying for belt ceremonies every 6 months
Great video, very interesting... made me think of something... There is a weird tradition some judo gyms do where you get to fight 5 people of your rank or above one after the other... And if you do well enough(that means winning with not much effort), you get promoted... I think that is an interesting way to know where you are at... Can you beat 5 people of your own belt rank in a row without much effort? Then probably you are above that rank...
Once I considered joining a Jiu-Jitsu school run by a married couple from Brazil (she was a former world champion). After attending a few months, it was belt promotion time. The head instructor announced that those promoted must pay $75 per stripe, $150 per belt. It was stunning and unexpected. Luckily I wasn’t picked for promotion.
What city?
@@cnczy1036 Chicago
@@TheBearGrappler damn that’s some expensive tape
Chewy you are a modern day Sage
Great video. In my experience I've seen more gyms give attendance belts not rewarding belts off of skill and ability but rather off how many classes they are attending. Imo that is way worse.
I think the person who has been training for 10 months might be a bit premature in suggesting he is or will be held back. Typically 2 years is considered average for blue belt. Also, maybe his tournament success has been due to small number of competitors, strength instead of technique, wrestling or judo background. Also, I think holding people back can be a risk as you may lose people to other gyms or frustration. So I doubt holding back is a profit driven thing (in most cases). Honestly who cares if a gym has a few more white belt gold medal results at tournaments. Is anyone selecting a gym based on how many golds the white belts are getting?
I think charging for gradings might be a profit thing. Unless you get a nicer than basic belt.
Or registration fees.
Or make you buy their uniform or gear. Mind you if you compete you should rep your gym with patches or gear.
Trying to sell people on contracts.
Again it's a fine line. One can probably argue instances where the aforementioned are okay. Ultimately I think it has to do with intentions. If the reasoning is for the students best interest than it is not a problem.
I hear you about the schools that are just in it for the money. We had a Tae Kwon Do school here in Memphis that was the same way back in the 1980s. It was a machine. Black belt in 2 years. I think there were 6-10 locations in Memphis at its peak.
Of course, a key part of it was the monthly fees, testing fees, and you had to go to (and pay for) every tournament that the leader held. I think he had a tournament every 2-3 months. Oh, these were essentially "promotion" tournaments. Just about everyone who attended got a promotion of some kind. Sometimes even if you didn't go to that school (yeah, I know, it was crazy)!
His black belts were, to say the least, sketchy. Their forms were sad and their sparring even worse. They were "good" against others in the school, but when opened up to the other schools in Memphis, they suffered. Which is why, I suppose, they didn't go to many tournaments other than the school-sponsored tournaments (other schools had to apply to attend).
Don't get me wrong, there were a FEW really good students at each level. They tended to be the "natural athletes" and hardcore trainers (at every class as opposed to the "required" 2 times a week).
On the other hand, I had to struggle with the idea that, yes, there was a definitely "dilution" of the worth and skills of becoming a black belt, at least in Memphis, at the time. BUT there were A LOT of people who got more self-defense training than would have without this school. Sure, against anyone with any real skills, they would have trouble, but against someone with no training, they would be able to make a better defense as opposed to just being a victim.
And on the other, other hand, there were many who thought they were "all that and a bag of chips" who got creamed because their personal perception was not where it should of been. But BJJ is different. You get immediate, and constant, feedback on what will, and will not, work.
I heard, back when I first started BJJ (about 15 years ago), that the Machado brothers had a sign over their training room entrance that said, "I am a shark, the floor is my ocean, and most people don't even know how to swim". How true that statement was.
I studied BJJ for about 20 months before I had to quit due to a knee replacement (I'm thinking of starting back up again at almost 59 year old (next month), but during that time I found out how true that statement is. During the time I studied, I learned how true that was and that, though I finally reached blue belt just before the knee replacement, I had just barely learned how to tread water! Heck, even a "guppy" could "swim" far better than most people who just walked in the door.
There are definite downsides to "money machine" BJJ, but, unlike many other martial arts, the immediate and constant feedback HELPS to minimize those downsides of the approach of the money hungry.
My $.02...
In our Gracie Garage we follow the Gracie Combatives program, which has 36 set techniques to get to Blue belt. This is the case for every stripe and every belt all the way up to Black belt. Because of this, we don't have the issue where a coach could somehow hold us back; we just climb thru the curriculum and do the test; if we pass, then we move up. This removes the possibility of being at the mercy of your coach's whims and puts you, the student, in the driver's seat for your own progress. I prefer this, as I've trained in places where I never knew when I would get another stripe or my next belt, especially in Kickboxing. Note that we focus on self defense GJJ, not sport BJJ, so we don't go to competitions.
How long do you think it takes avg for each belt
Bro…
@@kylefee4822 depends how often you train. you can finish the Blue belt in 6 to 8 months if you train three times a week. After that it gets more complex, it can take 2 years or more to get to Purple belt. All the way to black usually takes around 7 years.
(It's a long comment but bare with me)
I agree that faster belt promotions is actually more of a sign of shady business. I have been training in karate for about 20 years and hold a 3rd degree black belt. I remember my earlier belt tests being very tough and demanding, and sometimes people were held back because they simply were not ready. More and more, I see tests becoming easier, sometimes they don't even include sparring, and people get promoted when they aren't necessarily ready from a technical stand point (in my opinion). They get scheduled for belt tests every 3-4 months on average and it seems like everyone passes the test regardless of how they perform, as long as they put in some effort. The head instructor articulates this as an encouragement for personnal development, since most people are training recreationally and aren't necessarily concerned with competing or being effective in a fight, they just want to have fun in a social environment where they can exercise and train in something different. That being said, I feel like we are losing the essence of martial arts and that it's a bit misleading as it is advertised as self-defense. The techniques are legit, and the instructor's skills are legit, but the belt promotion system isn't really reprensentative of people's skills. What are your thoughts on this? Mcdojo or not?
I always see the belt progression like life. When you’re a white belt you’re a kid that just wants to be an adult, then by the time you’re at purple you wish you had more time as a white belt
It doesn't make any sense that a professor would hold off on promoting to make more money unless you're going to quit as soon as you earn that belt. As Chewy said, it makes a lot more sense to promote quicker if the goal is for the gym to make money.
I feel like the gym I go to is so cheap and affordable. Several of his students regularly earn gold at competitions, which is nice to see as a new student.
Idk how he does it honestly.
A lot of layers in my couple yr experience:
You have to buy a new color Gi at the traditional Jiu-Jitsu curriculum halfway point and the price goes up. You can't use either of those Gis for BJJ. I started skipping belt test week classes and rolled or practiced kicks downstairs.
I would be cut loose for training w an old schoolmate I ran into who was learning kickboxing in another gym (we weren't from this city). -My instructors also had my schoolmates same coach prepare them in the same alternative gym for their fights during this time.
We were shown techniques and then told "you have 60 seconds to master this. Go!" ...Then we moved on. Hard to learn the nuances that make fundamentals effective in a 20min lesson that examines 4 or 5 techniques ...unless you paid for $100/hr privates. -It wasn't until I got DVDs of Danaher and the like that allowed me to become more effective. Seeing us practice these techniques at our own device also did not go over well (it was slipping and counter exercises a la Anderson Silva instructionals)
I saw a great competitors match get thrown at the behest of our coach. It was between his longest tenured and highest skilled pupil, and head instructor of one of the other locations. Armbar from guard didn't sink in and the arm was just about free to start punching. Whilst standing over / stacking the grounded attacking opponent, Ref said he tapped. Both opponents said it didn't happen. But the coach said "No its okay just let it go."
The ref looked a little uncomfortable.
Guy is like "I paid to be here. I didn't tap. You owe me a fight."
Opponent: "he didn't tap."
Coach: Just let it go.
We also didn't compete in many of the same tournaments as other competitive local gyms.
Not much actual gym access. Need a another membership in a normal gym and a friend to roll w. I couldn't afford two.
I was accommodated well. For instance, they let me do strength and conditioning part of kickboxing class before I actually upgraded to BJJ inclusive membership which gets you beginner kickboxing class access. But I could barely afford to attend so part of the accommodation was probably to keep me coming.
Lol love the threatening audible voice
I went to Gracie Barra when I moved into my university's city. It was £150 ($170) for the gi which you had to wear. It was £72 ($80) a month, to train whenever. As a white belt, they do not recognise any outside achievement and put you in the bottom category, with other below 3 stripe white belts. This includes fresh day 1'ers. You were supposed to collect your attendance card at the front and give it to the coaches who mark off your attendance. The card displayed when your next stripe could be at the earliest. I hated rolling with day 1 guys because I never knew if I should go full speed and thus crush these guys, or be nice and let them work. Even worse was we could only do situational sparring, and you never changed out partners. Just the one guy you were training with all session. I found myself trying to crush these guys to impress the coach in order to get my stripes. I got my first stripe after 1.5 years of training bjj (3mo at gb). Then I just wanted to get my next 2 stripes to get into the higher up class. This whole time I was paying £72 a month and then found out I would continue to be charged over summer even though I wasn't in the city to train. I tried to go to a local Gracie Barra since they claimed your membership was valid at any GB gym but the coach at my local was shady and sent his pregnant secretary/ front of office to inform me I could not train here. When I tried to cancel my membership there was a 2-month period before I could really cancel meaning I was forced to pay in £144 before I could leave.
Looking at it now it was a total scam. They lead you along with stripes and suppress growth until you get into the higher up category, where you still have to pay absolutely extortionate prices a broke student like me could never afford. If they do womens sessions and kid sessions cool, but it's clearly for people of a wealth and prestige different to mine. I now train at Paul daley's gym and pay £25 a month for 12 sessions. Even if there isn't the depth of skill at least there is flexibility. GB is like a religion. I can't believe I ever bowed to a f***ing framed picture of Helio Gracie.
Bonus: a friend who still trains there told me he was charged £40 for a pair of shorts he had to have in order to train nogi. 40 on some shorts because the gym says so. Speaks for itself
Interesting experience. I'm at a Gracie Barra in California and it's nothing at all like what you describe. hmmmmm..
Started at 52-train 2x a week (maybe 3) even I know I'm not ready for my stripe....and I'm totally ok with that. My coaches and the people who go there are great. Formula bjj in Plymouth, MI
you have 100% the right balance in running your business.........Paying for those kids tourney fees is a class move! A LOT of gym owners would NOT do that
I've never felt like I've been taken advantage of by a gym. I do feel like the prices have "inflated" over the past 15 years or so. I don't know how we went from $25/month to $200/month to train in almost identical gym setups :D
Gyms would go out of business if they had to charge 20 bucks if you have 200 students and that’s a if that would only be 60,000 before expenses rent marketing etc
As a new student in BJJ I would hope my professor would promote me when it time to be promoted and if I'm truly ready to be. If and when I get promoted to blue belt, I would hope my professor Brent has no doubt in his mind that I am blue material, otherwise we are both cheating ourselves out of the sole purpose of BJJ, to grow and develop the right way
Yeah hey Chewy 2 stripe white belt here. I think I should have gotten my purple belt last promotion and they’re just holding me back to make money off me. They don’t even understand like when I get mad I just see red bro, similar to the color of the belt I will have by this time next year. 😎 Obviously all jokes lol long time viewer, love your channel, love your products too, and I’m actually really happy with how my gym promotes people. I’ve been to gym where they’re a belt factory and it’s robbing that person of their respect. Now they have to deal with being a shitty blue or purple belt or whatever and they never even asked for it haha.
As a taekwondo school "owner" (I use quotes there because there are 3 black belts at my school and I prefer to think we all own it, my name is just on the legal stuff), this is a pendulum I struggle with a lot. Other school owners that have mentored me over the years constantly give me flack for not promoting my students, dangling that carrot, yet when we all go to competitions, my students always get podium finishes. I factor in the maturity of the student into whether they should be testing just as if not more so than the skills and knowledge. My bjj school (Im just a student there) is completely 501(c) and doesnt charge any membership or testing fees because they are all grant based and the buliding space is donated.
Hi chewy, I definitely felt I was prematurely promoted to blue because of said business practices. I have doubts as it was a well respected gym (where some killers came from) but I’m only now coming to acknowledge my blue belt status. I wonder if you have any insight on imposter syndrome
This is normal. I think most of us go through this. But if you are in a reputable gym, trust in your coach. If your coach says you're a blue belt, then you're a blue belt.
To be a real blue belt you need at least 1 year and a half of practice every week (without interruption) 3 to 4 times a week, have you done enough work ? Well i think you would know very fast by simply winning comps or at least being able to do podiums easily
@@williamm4366 so the gym i go to is an interesting case because we have a few one year blue belts and we also have tests for higher belts but you're not charged for the test. A lot of these one year blue belts though are i would assume legit since when i was still training with them we would be doing at some points multiple classes daily, so 10+ 1 hour classes weekly. I among others who were training constantly quickly caught up to higher white belts and some fresh blue belts. I'm still white sadly due to external reasoms forcing me to stop jujitsu currently but the dudes who were one year blue belts to me deserve it since i had experienced with them putting in 10 hours plus in weekly training. Also the gym i was at did fairly well against other schools
@@williamm4366 tell that to bj penn
In my gym the only way to figure out what rank someone is, is to roll with them. Or see who they're hanging out with
Early holding back is a blessing
Hi I'm commenting before watching the video.
Competing as a white belt definitely built my confidence before competing as a blue belt. Also I rolled under coaches who didn't believe in stripes so that was a bummer. Just forget about the belt and focus on the movements. Its a process.
I like the traditional sambo way of grading, win 6 competitions, then you can level up, some people will never compete or they will just be shit at competing so 2 or more years per belt should be for them... but if you can win 6 comps at what ever belt you are at, then get the next belt, no need to hold you back even if it only takes a few months.
My coach makes us earn our stuff and has high standards. Wants to make sure we are READY for that next belt division. Sometimes it’s frustrating and my ego tells me I am getting held back but I gotta be careful what I ask for cause my first blue belt match may be against someone about to get their purple. Keep the focus and keep digging, and he is super integral so I don’t think it’s a money thing.
Love the retro 80s design shirt!
I think a good BJJ gym can do both: be a great instructor and a good business person that charges the right amount. My professor is great and we have plenty of students. A lot of it is the culture. Its not cheap either. $180/month in south Florida. But he doesn't push merchandise. He had two seminar taught by Romulus Barra and Felipe Pena. Each was $75. More than reasonable for those names. It was 3 hours long each seminar. Regarding belts, our Professor tells us we will have them longer than the GB requirement, but will promote based on what he believes our potential is vs where we were when we started. I think thats fair.
To me, it seems insane that someone thinks people would quit after getting their black belt or whatever. As if there are people "ya, I finished jiu-jitsu. Time to move on."
Holding someone back in Jiu Jitsu is definitely not a money grab. We have one other martial arts gym in my town and it is definitely a mcdojo. Constant belt promotion and they all cost money for the grading and belt and if you want to compete then you have to pay the instructors travel and hotel fees. Must only wear their gi. On the flip side, my instructor doesn't even charge us for belts, which I honestly wouldn't mind paying for.
So..... Do you have to pay less the higher belt you are? How could you "maximize profits" off a person who pays the same as others?
Very good point. I know some places don't charge black belts to train but considering it takes a solid decade or more to reach that level and you can't fake being a black belt in BJJ like other arts, your observation is spot on.
Promotions... goes like this, you either win a tournament and are a sand bagger at a tournament or you loose.
Hello Chewy, I am currently a college student with a plan to start BJJ in the fall. I also want to take another fighting styling like wrestling (at my college) or kickboxing at the same time. My question is what would be a better second style to learn? Wrestling or Kickboxing?
Judo
I do not have much understanding but purely from the method : if you spend 2 yrs in each belt plus a little set back here and there, - you shall get your belt by 9/10 of practice time, all tho if you do it 2/3 times a week or you do it 4/5 + …. U get what you put in right :)))))
This is a quality vs quantity debate at its roots.I'd rather have quality instructions and a stable structure to get to the end goal. What good is it if you reach your goal without ever actually earning it? Take pride in your work and your education, steady and slow, take in the philosophy and instructions and EARN that belt or goal. I'd rather be a blue belt that could beat any other instructors brown belts than say I'm a black belt yet can't hold my own with a Gracie purple belt.
again, quality over quantity, or rather quality over quicker learning.
I got my blue belt pretty early and everything you said applies but honestly I don't mind because blue is a pretty color and it looks good on me. Hope I don't get promoted to purple too fast, though.
Personally, I'd want to go to a gym that promotes a little quicker than a little slower. The belt progression is a drive for me -- at least in the lower belts. If I can prove I know what I'm doing at a low belt and have mastered the basics then I don't want to shine in the sun as a skilled white belt. I want that blue belt that acknowledges I've learned the basics. I don't mind shine in the sun as a blue belt or purple belt. I probably wouldn't want to shine in the sun as a brown belt either and would prefer to get the black belt instead of "shining".
A dojo exist wherever someone is willing to teach and someone willing to learn, no belt's necessary no money necessary, just human decency.
Lmao dude Chewy you're a pro. Nice response. 🤙💯