4w5 here again! I was raised in a household where love and attention was in very short supply. I learned quickly to just "not be a problem" as my approach in pleasing. Just avoidance or mimicking family members in order to survive. Working a lot of customer service jobs starting as a teenager made me expand into having to be "nice" and charming all the time. It wasnt until I got a different line of work that I kind of rebeled too hard and became more like a 5 in walling off from everyone. I'm still trying to figure out how to be social and nice in a normal amount....in a comfortable amount. It seems to be trial and error. All I know is it helps to ask myself "what's my motivation?" "Do you really want to do the thing?" Thankfully I have a few friends now who are very understanding and respect my boundaries and are supportive. My family has not grown emotionally so much. With that I'm still learning to let them go.
4w3 - dealing with this now even as an adult. I just want the people in my life to know me more and accept me. But I feel unsafe expressing myself fully to my loved ones based on the past.
Really don't want to offend or upset anyone with this comment but bear with me, I promise I have a point and am trying to help! As an 8 I tend to be wary of people who aim to please and be nice all the time and erase themselves in that, it's actually probably my biggest red flag in any type of relationships. I've had many experiences where it just accumulates under the surface and eventually explodes, causing a lot more unnecessary problems than if they just said no to that one little thing or said that other thing bothered them. Or worse, it becomes the big elephant in the room we just "don't talk about that", which makes me either explode myself or physically sick. I'm also slightly autistic and it's even harder for me to read minds than for most folks. The more this types of people try to get me to like them, the more I actually dislike them. So, there you go, even when you try to do your best to be liked by everyone, some people will still not like you, or even just then begin to dislike you specifically because of this behaviour. Not because "you're weak" or any other bad opinion, but because we learned it leads to trouble. What I'm trying to say is, no matter what you do someone out there will still not like it, so all you can do is be real like dr. Tom says, and the right people will like you. Big bear hug to you all!
Funny I’m a 4 so I 100% feel this way already… like what’s the point of life if you’re not honest? We wanna be authentic and attract pple who accept our authentic selves… but then we are in the heart triad and people pleasers. It’s this big contradicting thing and I don’t get it.
I have to say it’s funny you say “you’re weak” as a “bad opinion” just cuz that is very 8 of you 😉 I don’t think that’s that big of a deal to 2~4, at least not 4 for sure
3w2 here. I've never been able to wrap my head around the concept of "being loved for who you are and not what you do." It makes perfect sense when I'm dealing with other people, but I struggle with applying it to myself. Definitely doing the work to overcome that!
As a self preservation 4, I feel like I have to withhold my intense waves of emotions and how deep they are in order to feel loved and valued. I don’t feel like I have to be unique to feel loved and valued, but rather I have to withhold who I am. I wished there were more segments about self preservation 4’s. Cause we’re usually lost in the mix…
So true! Agreed with everything you've said. Would have appreciated more videos for our subtype... It feels to me like the self-preservation subtype works differently than the other two... or it just seems like that at least.
It's a shame that love sounds unattainable if you believe what you hear. I think " I'm a 4. (I have epilepsy) I've not been shit on except maybe family, love is not a competition I participate in. I have what I need, and need what I have. But I know I'm a selfish shit head 😂 and I live in my mother's basement.
Thank youuuuuu. I haaaate conflict. I just wanna shove all my negative feelings away and never bring them up... but this video gave me courage. Sincerely a 9w1
Tom I have been studying Ennegrams since I was an Arican in the late 60-70s. Studied with Riso and Hudson In the 1990ish. Your genuine understandment and sincere conveyance of information is such a gift. I think 's type 7 get people. That is why they can tap into making things lighten up and bring joy but sincere healing. My husband is a 7 he is a kind AA Sponser.
I'm a 2 and you hit the nail on the head! You made me cry. It's like you're in my head and saying everything I say to myself but can't express it as well as you do. Thank you so much for the clarity!
I really like the distinction that you make between 2s and 4s - that 4s feel the need to be authentic, and 2s feel the need to be nice. I think that helps make sense when figuring out if I, as a 4, am disintegrating into a 2 due to stress. Do I feel safe being authentic, so I have to put up my guard and play nice? And do 2s no longer feel the need to be nice when they are integrating into a 4 and are becoming true to themselves?
So helpful to this 4. Have realized I struggle with being a pleaser, but this brought even more clarity and gave me some tools to work with. Thanks for your work - enjoy your channel very much.
I love the way you think. Just when I think you have said it all in a video, you come up with a new one that digs even deeper and helps me understand even more. You are making a big difference! Thank you!
Thank you for everything. I have such a fear of Abandonment stemming from my family. I know for a fact, that is why I cleave to God. When people treat you poorly, I go to Church. It is exhausting when pleasing others pleases you. God Bless.
Good Morning Dr. Tom. I love the sincerity and humility that shines through your videos. I was 100% sure I was a Nine, but after watching “The Only Reason They Would Ever Love Me”, I am looking at Two again because I can relate to the phenomenon of disapproval terror you describe.
I'm a 9w1 INFJ, but I completely relate to the 2 in this video also but for a different reason. For me, it's to maintain the connection and avoid abandonment. That equates to rejection of who I am at the core...very detrimental to me personally.
I'm a 4w5 and think that 2s and 3s have a way of interacting with the world to "please others". My experience as a 4 is that for much of my life I have refused to participate and instead resorted to years of crippling depression and financial instability. You speak mostly to 2s in this video which is understandable because you are married to a 2 and probably understand 2s the best in the heart triad. I just felt the need to point out that us 4s can be (surprise!) Unique or special in how we operate as opposed to our heart triad counterparts or even the rest of the numbers. You give lots of very interesting and helpful insights on all of the numbers and want to say that I appreciate you and everyone else who reads this comment ❤
This is accurate, and you’re right it is a really exhausting way to live and it is so taxing emotionally and mentally. This video was helpful thank you
The heart types seem very trauma-based. I would have loved to have been a more full person, however it was rarely safe for me to do so. When I stepped out of bounds of what a family member or friend wanted, I was rejected until I fit the niches that they allowed me to have. I learned to compartmentalize. I was never unauthentic or fake. I have many interests, I'm caring, and hardworking; so I just highlighted a particular part of me to fit the group. We all do this to a point. I was just more of a chameleon than anyone ever knew. I maintained my authenticity through my deep inner world and I expressed myself through my writing that I rarely shared with anyone. There are times throughout my life that I have felt really lonely. However, I have met many interesting, diverse people and I do a great job of finding out what we have in common and I'm very open-minded so I respect and appreciate our differences. I feel very comfortable talking to strangers, probably because they don't push expectations on me and I feel like the conversations are safer because I might never see them again, so I don't have to worry about how they perceive me, so I don't have to be so self-critical about what I say and do. I can't even completely be fully myself on the enneagram. I take pride in what I do for other people, but I also take pride in my accomplishments. I am a planner with a tendency to be a workaholic, but I am currently a stay-at-home mom who is conscientious of my kids' needs and I volunteer with several organizations. I want to go back to working a full-time job, but I am torn because I don't think I can be both people. Do I keep embracing my 2ness or give that up to embrace my 3ness? And neither of those types acknowledge my deep inner world and the loneliness I feel about wanting to be accepted for All of me, which feels very 4. I consider myself a Social 2w3 on the outside, but an SP 4 on the inside.
I love this. But when you say do what is right. that's where I get lost. How can I be clear about what is right. I am a total 4 with a 5 wing (and a little 3) who constantly devolves to 2, and when I am able to find good work to do, I enjoy being more evoloving into 1. But, as a 4, finging unique ways of defining what is right, and when i drift towrds 2, wanting to find something to do that is right that won't create loss or anger.... well, I can make it very complicated and philosophical. So, what is right and wrong, that duality place, is a constant conundrum with me. thank you so much for all these videos you are doing. Your passion and sincerety shine through, and it is a true gift to the world, and greatly appreciated. dj
This is where I think you can rely on your 5 wing. Search for objective truth using your intellect as much as you can. This will prevent you from being stuck in a bad situation and freeing yourself to stand up. I've gotten myself out of bad situations when I spoke up and defended myself, and it was hard when people didn't believe me, but it was completely worth it. Getting fed up with the status quo is what takes me to 1. Feel your anger and learn from it.
Stop thinking about it so much and listen to your gut. You have a conscience that will tell you right and wrong immediately. Trust it. Don't dissect it.
Thank you so much for this video. I struggle majorly with this. I am a 4 and I have grown majorly out of my tendancy to bottle up some of my feelings. However, I think I still struggle with knowing what the truth in love looks like. I tend to assume that if they got upset, I was too harsh and not loving. And then I withdraw due to the shame of not feeling like a good person or not feeling like I am good at relationships. I definitely had some of that messaging passed down to me growing up, the "if you are not pleasing, you will end up alone." And I realize that i got i to a weird space of growing extremely impatient with myself when I feel certain things and I also tend to want to run away grom those whor remind me too much of myself at my worst. I'm not sure what to do about this dynamic to be honest. I think too, adding the Bible into this whole dynamic makes things so tricky. I do find that I often feel internally thrown off balance when my closest relationships have tension or conflict or insettledness. I resonate with that anxiety that pops up feeling like I neeeeeed to fix the conflict in order to be okay. As a creative this has been especially hard because I find relationships so destabilizing sometimes to both myself and my creative work. And I tend to get angry with myself and others when conflicts or tensions throw me off centre. I also realize that I tend to feel like God is not pleased with me when I am in conflict with someone, like if I were loving like Jesus, I wouldn't be so blunt or unkind or angry. If the Holy Spirit was in me, I wouldn't feel like this bottle of anger waiting to burst at times. Idk,just thoughts. I find that the exact fear of abandonment when i am not pleasing that I have is what I see myself do to others at times, especially when their sulleness is triggering of my own stuff or when their anger is more like lashing out. Hope these thoughts made sense. I know it is a jumbled mess of thoughts.
One day, when I feel ready to be in a relationship again, I'm sure the help and insight you've given will be instrumental to the more developed person I'll become
I also think that at least for me the reason I do things I don’t want to in order to please people is because ultimately I want to be loved and accepted. So for me getting love and acceptance is more important that what I want. And I think that being perfectly pleasant and nice, causing no disagreement or conflict will get me love and acceptance from people. But I am realizing now all it causes is me distress and people never actually feeling like they know me. So I never get that real connection I’m looking for. And I agree the deep need for acceptance comes from deep down not loving yourself and basing your value off of what other people think of you because you don’t think you have any value or worth
Thank you for this video! It really got me thinking and made me want to understand myself and others better 😊 These videos meant for the worth side often resonate w me as a 9--So, while watching, I was trying to understand nuance between anger and shame tendencies. Bc the house analogy has helped me, I tried to use it to sort this out. We all have our own houses to tend, but maybe how we tend to them depends. What if the shame section's worries come from understanding how important having relationships w neighbors is--so they tend to their house in ways to be the best neighbors. On the other side, what if the anger section's worries come from understand how important having a house is--so they tend to their house in ways to defend it. Shame people struggle to feel worthy of belonging within their communities, while anger people stuggle to believe they're worthy of being house owners. Maybe the fear section's worries come from understanding how important being in a house is--so they tend to their house to keep it sturdy and safe. They stuggle to think their house is secure in the neighborhood it's in. Does this seem to work out or am I overthinking this? 🤔😅
It makes sense to me that 9s would relate to the shame. 9s go to sleep to themselves to keep the peace. That's quite a bit like saying that 9s think they are unworthy to even fully exist in the world. As a 4, I've spent a lot of time trying to understand why 9s aren't in the shame triad--your fears look so familiar to me. If I understand correctly, you worry that if you were to truly be yourself, you would lose the people you love because it would be too much intensity and they'd get scared away. Is that not shame?
As a five I am wary of everyone so the harder someone tries to be pleasing the more I distance from them Same if they need me to be pleasing though I tend to be very easy to be around and a great co worker if one doesn’t need me to be conversational I show up and I’m cheerful and ethical I work hard and mostly just ask not to be included in what I perceive as pointless conversation I could easily work with clones of myself all day with no stress but it takes people a while to get that it’s not personal towards them
Another 4 w5 commenting. The feeling of being misunderstood that goes with the four type says something. Difference is we go into our caves to lick our wounds.
As a 4 And I am really honest with you I prefer people being brutally honest with me. If you don’t love me better say it to my face. So we don’t play games. And I don’t need to second guess you.
You're making more sense than you seem to realize. Would you consider addressing the issue of not being able to walk away from toxic situations/relationships?
I struggled with this too. It takes tremendous strength, it’s horrible as you go through it and then you detox and see the huge contrast of what you were trapped in.
If your GREATEST fear is abandonment, like me.....You have to watch out for feeding this fear by pleasing and pleasing the outside worrld. This is an attemp for making sure nobody leaves me....But after years and years I learned that this is a need you can NOT
It’s an app that lets you create a community around whatever you want, and some youtubers use it to stay more in contact with his fans or just for the fanbase to connect to the rest and be more united. For example youtubers like C.S. Joseph (He talks about the MBTI) has a community and I was thinking it needs to be a community like that around the enneagram where people can make friends and talk about enneagram/related stuff, share memes etc. It’s totally free unless you buy the nitro which it’s not necessary at all and it could be totally unrelated to the patreon so you won’t loose anything, it’s just an app for the fanbase to chat. People or fans who you trust enough can help you moderate and create the Discord, it’s not that hard to make but it takes some time.
I can help you understand if you’d like my help. I’m a 4. I have 12 siblings. My step dad and birth mom are both Mormon 2’s. I’ve had every member take the test and I can tell you the hidden blind spots
I really resonate with this video as a 4. I've always thought the fear of people rejecting me or not liking me was just an indication that I have no value (the real fear) vs the opposite that really i could be fearing the loss of connection itself which would be the result of not having value. Kind of an interesting nuanced difference there. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe overthinking it haha I also definitely struggle with both needing to be authentic and needing to be nice so that others like me which is indeed an exhausting internal battle at times. Thanks for the video!
Why don’t you discuss 5 sense of abandonment? I am in darkness now because it feels like no one including spouse reaches out to me. Her whole family are 2s,7s,and 9s (there’s 8 siblings) but none of them understand the loneliness and feel need/want to reach out to me when I clam up/feel extremely introverted.
Sometimes people disapprove of or dislike our behaviors even if they are right/moral but they don't prefer them. For example, my daughter got engaged recently to someone she's been dating for 6 months and I expressed concern (I'm a 4w5). And she is displeased because I didn't just express only support and she felt I was being negative and critical, even though I was very loving and gentle when I expressed that there may be some risk to this decision. When I expressed that doing so would feel inauthentic to me, she said she didn't care and I should just do what she asked. I am struggling to figure out if I should adjust that behavior in the future, apologize, etc. Would it be people pleasing to bite my tongue and not provide information/guidance in the future because the other person just wants positivity? Or is that something I should do to stretch out of my 4ness. Life is so hard sometimes! But thank you so much for all of your help. It's helping!
It sounds like you're navigating a tough situation. It's completely natural to have concerns for your loved ones, especially when it comes to big decisions like engagement. Finding the right balance between honesty and support can be tricky. Trust your instincts and remember that open communication is key!
I tried to talk to my son when he was growing up about what will your contribution be to the world? That's what I think about. Not monetary but doing things to improve the world and help others.
Interesting. I'm an 8w7 and I find a decent amount of this in me, from a slightly different angle. And it could be due to my current life situation. I'm divorced and live in a state where I have no family. So it's REALLY easy for me to be frustrated with life and go to an unhealthy 5. But I like to be very social and hangout with people but I feel like my 8 intensity and blunt-ness can turn people off. So I do feel like I have to do a lot of extra things to be accepted by people and for people to invite me to social gatherings. I do feel like I need to work hard to give myself worth. Im very intense with my diet and exercise so I'm in very good physical shape. Many times when I'm invited somewhere I'll bring a gift for the host (absolutely no one else does this in my circle) or a lot of extra snacks for my friends. Just because I feel like I need to stand out in a positive way so that they'll like me and accept me and invite me. Because I can't stand to just be home alone with nothing to do. The 8 in me goes stir-crazy! But this video was very interesting to me. I need to figure out a healthier way of seeing my worth.
And now that I think of it, its not that I care if people like me or not ultimately, I just need them to like me enough to include me in the social events so I'm not bored lol. That's what is driving it.
I don't know how to react to this when it comes to my family. My whole life, I have been taught by experiences that if I am not these things, I will be disapproved of. My grandma actively does this, my parents actively do this, my siblings actively do this. Not just toward me but toward everyone, especially all of our family members. It has led me to not reach out to them at all to continue my relationships with them. Because its exhausting to put up that much effort, and then STILL be disapproved of because like you said, I can't be perfectly pleasing to everyone all the time. And like you said, I can't change people's view of me. And I don't want to continue to put myself through that gauntlet just to spend time with them. I feel terrible by no longer associating with them, and I feel terrible when I do. Is there a way to find peace with my choices, or theirs, and live my life without the guilt? I am a 1w2.
Hi Dr. Lahue! I just wanted to share my excitement with you about the enneagram and everything that you are doing! I'm wondering if you still hold skype/zoom calls or a way to reach out. I personally feel like I'm struggling with defining whether I'm a 5w4 or a 4w5. And I would love to learn about your own journey through the enneagram and self growth. Thanks, take care!
Sorry part 2.. this is s need you Can NOT solve. IT is like a hole gettimg BIGGER and BIGGER...Best is to look out for other people. Lets have hope ( still struggle), there Will be someone who likes me.....
Annissa he believes in God. He does amazing work. Leave him be. That’s his business and not appropriate for a public comment conversation. Be respectful
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4w5 here again! I was raised in a household where love and attention was in very short supply. I learned quickly to just "not be a problem" as my approach in pleasing. Just avoidance or mimicking family members in order to survive. Working a lot of customer service jobs starting as a teenager made me expand into having to be "nice" and charming all the time. It wasnt until I got a different line of work that I kind of rebeled too hard and became more like a 5 in walling off from everyone. I'm still trying to figure out how to be social and nice in a normal amount....in a comfortable amount. It seems to be trial and error. All I know is it helps to ask myself "what's my motivation?" "Do you really want to do the thing?"
Thankfully I have a few friends now who are very understanding and respect my boundaries and are supportive. My family has not grown emotionally so much. With that I'm still learning to let them go.
4w3 - dealing with this now even as an adult. I just want the people in my life to know me more and accept me. But I feel unsafe expressing myself fully to my loved ones based on the past.
Really don't want to offend or upset anyone with this comment but bear with me, I promise I have a point and am trying to help! As an 8 I tend to be wary of people who aim to please and be nice all the time and erase themselves in that, it's actually probably my biggest red flag in any type of relationships. I've had many experiences where it just accumulates under the surface and eventually explodes, causing a lot more unnecessary problems than if they just said no to that one little thing or said that other thing bothered them. Or worse, it becomes the big elephant in the room we just "don't talk about that", which makes me either explode myself or physically sick. I'm also slightly autistic and it's even harder for me to read minds than for most folks. The more this types of people try to get me to like them, the more I actually dislike them. So, there you go, even when you try to do your best to be liked by everyone, some people will still not like you, or even just then begin to dislike you specifically because of this behaviour. Not because "you're weak" or any other bad opinion, but because we learned it leads to trouble. What I'm trying to say is, no matter what you do someone out there will still not like it, so all you can do is be real like dr. Tom says, and the right people will like you. Big bear hug to you all!
This is so helpful as I struggle with this. I'm a 4. Thanks!
Funny I’m a 4 so I 100% feel this way already… like what’s the point of life if you’re not honest? We wanna be authentic and attract pple who accept our authentic selves… but then we are in the heart triad and people pleasers. It’s this big contradicting thing and I don’t get it.
I have to say it’s funny you say “you’re weak” as a “bad opinion” just cuz that is very 8 of you 😉 I don’t think that’s that big of a deal to 2~4, at least not 4 for sure
3w2 here. I've never been able to wrap my head around the concept of "being loved for who you are and not what you do." It makes perfect sense when I'm dealing with other people, but I struggle with applying it to myself. Definitely doing the work to overcome that!
Hopefully we will learn quickly so can experience life in a whole new way💕✨🦋
As a self preservation 4, I feel like I have to withhold my intense waves of emotions and how deep they are in order to feel loved and valued.
I don’t feel like I have to be unique to feel loved and valued, but rather I have to withhold who I am.
I wished there were more segments about self preservation 4’s. Cause we’re usually lost in the mix…
So true! Agreed with everything you've said. Would have appreciated more videos for our subtype... It feels to me like the self-preservation subtype works differently than the other two... or it just seems like that at least.
It's a shame that love sounds unattainable if you believe what you hear. I think " I'm a 4. (I have epilepsy) I've not been shit on except maybe family, love is not a competition I participate in.
I have what I need, and need what I have. But I know I'm a selfish shit head 😂 and I live in my mother's basement.
I love listening to your down to earth Enneagram discussions. You are on spot
Omg! This life has been exhausting. Thank you for putting words to the feelings I’ve had my entire life. 💕🦋✨
Thank youuuuuu. I haaaate conflict. I just wanna shove all my negative feelings away and never bring them up... but this video gave me courage.
Sincerely a 9w1
Yes!!! Me too. I'm a 9 also!
Tom I have been studying Ennegrams since I was an Arican in the late 60-70s. Studied with Riso and Hudson
In the 1990ish. Your genuine understandment and sincere conveyance of information is such
a gift. I think 's type 7 get people. That is why they can tap into making things lighten up and bring joy but
sincere healing. My husband is a 7 he is a kind AA Sponser.
Thanks, blessings.
I'm a 2 and you hit the nail on the head! You made me cry. It's like you're in my head and saying everything I say to myself but can't express it as well as you do. Thank you so much for the clarity!
You are so welcome
I really like the distinction that you make between 2s and 4s - that 4s feel the need to be authentic, and 2s feel the need to be nice.
I think that helps make sense when figuring out if I, as a 4, am disintegrating into a 2 due to stress. Do I feel safe being authentic, so I have to put up my guard and play nice? And do 2s no longer feel the need to be nice when they are integrating into a 4 and are becoming true to themselves?
I would say yes as a 2 to your question. It seems to be true for me.
So helpful to this 4. Have realized I struggle with being a pleaser, but this brought even more clarity and gave me some tools to work with. Thanks for your work - enjoy your channel very much.
Glad it was helpful!
I love the way you think. Just when I think you have said it all in a video, you come up with a new one that digs even deeper and helps me understand even more.
You are making a big difference! Thank you!
I appreciate that
Thank you for everything. I have such a fear of Abandonment stemming from my family. I know for a fact, that is why I cleave to God. When people treat you poorly, I go to Church. It is exhausting when pleasing others pleases you. God Bless.
Yes, I agree. God is the only one I know for certain will never leave me nor forsake me and always has my best interests at heart.
Good Morning Dr. Tom. I love the sincerity and humility that shines through your videos. I was 100% sure I was a Nine, but after watching “The Only Reason They Would Ever Love Me”, I am looking at Two again because I can relate to the phenomenon of disapproval terror you describe.
I'm a 9w1 INFJ, but I completely relate to the 2 in this video also but for a different reason. For me, it's to maintain the connection and avoid abandonment. That equates to rejection of who I am at the core...very detrimental to me personally.
32:48 that’s all we really want, us 4’s is to be understood
Yes. 2s and 4s. They can have HUGE differences in perspective and value ... without realizing it in the moment.
I am a 4 women and was dating a 2w1. Let’s just say it didn’t work 😂 interesting how we can be attracted to eachother
I’m a 4 with two type 2 best friends 🤣
I’m a 4w5 woman dating a 2w1 lol😳😳
I'm a 4w5 and think that 2s and 3s have a way of interacting with the world to "please others". My experience as a 4 is that for much of my life I have refused to participate and instead resorted to years of crippling depression and financial instability. You speak mostly to 2s in this video which is understandable because you are married to a 2 and probably understand 2s the best in the heart triad. I just felt the need to point out that us 4s can be (surprise!) Unique or special in how we operate as opposed to our heart triad counterparts or even the rest of the numbers. You give lots of very interesting and helpful insights on all of the numbers and want to say that I appreciate you and everyone else who reads this comment ❤
This is accurate, and you’re right it is a really exhausting way to live and it is so taxing emotionally and mentally. This video was helpful thank you
What about considering a time stamp?
The heart types seem very trauma-based. I would have loved to have been a more full person, however it was rarely safe for me to do so. When I stepped out of bounds of what a family member or friend wanted, I was rejected until I fit the niches that they allowed me to have. I learned to compartmentalize. I was never unauthentic or fake. I have many interests, I'm caring, and hardworking; so I just highlighted a particular part of me to fit the group. We all do this to a point. I was just more of a chameleon than anyone ever knew. I maintained my authenticity through my deep inner world and I expressed myself through my writing that I rarely shared with anyone. There are times throughout my life that I have felt really lonely. However, I have met many interesting, diverse people and I do a great job of finding out what we have in common and I'm very open-minded so I respect and appreciate our differences. I feel very comfortable talking to strangers, probably because they don't push expectations on me and I feel like the conversations are safer because I might never see them again, so I don't have to worry about how they perceive me, so I don't have to be so self-critical about what I say and do.
I can't even completely be fully myself on the enneagram. I take pride in what I do for other people, but I also take pride in my accomplishments. I am a planner with a tendency to be a workaholic, but I am currently a stay-at-home mom who is conscientious of my kids' needs and I volunteer with several organizations. I want to go back to working a full-time job, but I am torn because I don't think I can be both people. Do I keep embracing my 2ness or give that up to embrace my 3ness? And neither of those types acknowledge my deep inner world and the loneliness I feel about wanting to be accepted for All of me, which feels very 4. I consider myself a Social 2w3 on the outside, but an SP 4 on the inside.
Resonates completely with me as a 4, thank you Dr. Lahue
You're very welcome
I’m a 1 w2 and have this problem. Thanks for talking about this.
Authenticity versus niceness is honoring the individual versus honoring the collective.
I love this. But when you say do what is right. that's where I get lost. How can I be clear about what is right. I am a total 4 with a 5 wing (and a little 3) who constantly devolves to 2, and when I am able to find good work to do, I enjoy being more evoloving into 1. But, as a 4, finging unique ways of defining what is right, and when i drift towrds 2, wanting to find something to do that is right that won't create loss or anger.... well, I can make it very complicated and philosophical. So, what is right and wrong, that duality place, is a constant conundrum with me. thank you so much for all these videos you are doing. Your passion and sincerety shine through, and it is a true gift to the world, and greatly appreciated. dj
This is where I think you can rely on your 5 wing. Search for objective truth using your intellect as much as you can. This will prevent you from being stuck in a bad situation and freeing yourself to stand up. I've gotten myself out of bad situations when I spoke up and defended myself, and it was hard when people didn't believe me, but it was completely worth it. Getting fed up with the status quo is what takes me to 1. Feel your anger and learn from it.
Stop thinking about it so much and listen to your gut. You have a conscience that will tell you right and wrong immediately. Trust it. Don't dissect it.
Thank you so much for this video. I struggle majorly with this. I am a 4 and I have grown majorly out of my tendancy to bottle up some of my feelings. However, I think I still struggle with knowing what the truth in love looks like. I tend to assume that if they got upset, I was too harsh and not loving. And then I withdraw due to the shame of not feeling like a good person or not feeling like I am good at relationships. I definitely had some of that messaging passed down to me growing up, the "if you are not pleasing, you will end up alone." And I realize that i got i to a weird space of growing extremely impatient with myself when I feel certain things and I also tend to want to run away grom those whor remind me too much of myself at my worst. I'm not sure what to do about this dynamic to be honest. I think too, adding the Bible into this whole dynamic makes things so tricky. I do find that I often feel internally thrown off balance when my closest relationships have tension or conflict or insettledness. I resonate with that anxiety that pops up feeling like I neeeeeed to fix the conflict in order to be okay. As a creative this has been especially hard because I find relationships so destabilizing sometimes to both myself and my creative work. And I tend to get angry with myself and others when conflicts or tensions throw me off centre. I also realize that I tend to feel like God is not pleased with me when I am in conflict with someone, like if I were loving like Jesus, I wouldn't be so blunt or unkind or angry. If the Holy Spirit was in me, I wouldn't feel like this bottle of anger waiting to burst at times. Idk,just thoughts. I find that the exact fear of abandonment when i am not pleasing that I have is what I see myself do to others at times, especially when their sulleness is triggering of my own stuff or when their anger is more like lashing out. Hope these thoughts made sense. I know it is a jumbled mess of thoughts.
One day, when I feel ready to be in a relationship again, I'm sure the help and insight you've given will be instrumental to the more developed person I'll become
I also think that at least for me the reason I do things I don’t want to in order to please people is because ultimately I want to be loved and accepted. So for me getting love and acceptance is more important that what I want. And I think that being perfectly pleasant and nice, causing no disagreement or conflict will get me love and acceptance from people. But I am realizing now all it causes is me distress and people never actually feeling like they know me. So I never get that real connection I’m looking for. And I agree the deep need for acceptance comes from deep down not loving yourself and basing your value off of what other people think of you because you don’t think you have any value or worth
Thank you for this video! It really got me thinking and made me want to understand myself and others better 😊
These videos meant for the worth side often resonate w me as a 9--So, while watching, I was trying to understand nuance between anger and shame tendencies.
Bc the house analogy has helped me, I tried to use it to sort this out.
We all have our own houses to tend, but maybe how we tend to them depends. What if the shame section's worries come from understanding how important having relationships w neighbors is--so they tend to their house in ways to be the best neighbors. On the other side, what if the anger section's worries come from understand how important having a house is--so they tend to their house in ways to defend it.
Shame people struggle to feel worthy of belonging within their communities, while anger people stuggle to believe they're worthy of being house owners.
Maybe the fear section's worries come from understanding how important being in a house is--so they tend to their house to keep it sturdy and safe. They stuggle to think their house is secure in the neighborhood it's in.
Does this seem to work out or am I overthinking this? 🤔😅
It makes sense to me that 9s would relate to the shame. 9s go to sleep to themselves to keep the peace. That's quite a bit like saying that 9s think they are unworthy to even fully exist in the world. As a 4, I've spent a lot of time trying to understand why 9s aren't in the shame triad--your fears look so familiar to me. If I understand correctly, you worry that if you were to truly be yourself, you would lose the people you love because it would be too much intensity and they'd get scared away. Is that not shame?
Most profound video ever
As a five I am wary of everyone so the harder someone tries to be pleasing the more I distance from them
Same if they need me to be pleasing though I tend to be very easy to be around and a great co worker if one doesn’t need me to be conversational
I show up and I’m cheerful and ethical I work hard and mostly just ask not to be included in what I perceive as pointless conversation
I could easily work with clones of myself all day with no stress but it takes people a while to get that it’s not personal towards them
13:50 "if I'm not pleasing people then what am I here for? What's my worth and value??"
Another 4 w5 commenting. The feeling of being misunderstood that goes with the four type says something. Difference is we go into our caves to lick our wounds.
As a 4
And I am really honest with you
I prefer people being brutally honest with me.
If you don’t love me better say it to my face. So we don’t play games. And I don’t need to second guess you.
You're making more sense than you seem to realize. Would you consider addressing the issue of not being able to walk away from toxic situations/relationships?
I struggled with this too. It takes tremendous strength, it’s horrible as you go through it and then you detox and see the huge contrast of what you were trapped in.
This hit home
If your GREATEST fear is abandonment, like me.....You have to watch out for feeding this fear by pleasing and pleasing the outside worrld. This is an attemp for making sure nobody leaves me....But after years and years I learned that this is a need you can NOT
Very enlightening video. Thank you
Have you considered making a discord for this channel?
No idea what that is...will have to look it up.
It’s an app that lets you create a community around whatever you want, and some youtubers use it to stay more in contact with his fans or just for the fanbase to connect to the rest and be more united. For example youtubers like C.S. Joseph (He talks about the MBTI) has a community and I was thinking it needs to be a community like that around the enneagram where people can make friends and talk about enneagram/related stuff, share memes etc. It’s totally free unless you buy the nitro which it’s not necessary at all and it could be totally unrelated to the patreon so you won’t loose anything, it’s just an app for the fanbase to chat. People or fans who you trust enough can help you moderate and create the Discord, it’s not that hard to make but it takes some time.
This is amazing. Thank you👏🏻
You're so welcome!
I can help you understand if you’d like my help. I’m a 4. I have 12 siblings. My step dad and birth mom are both Mormon 2’s. I’ve had every member take the test and I can tell you the hidden blind spots
Behaviors can be unpleasing, but still right!
If my behaviors are disapproved of, love is still not withdrawn.
If I don’t bring value,
I still do have value.
People have the right to make their own mind about me.
That’s on them.
I really resonate with this video as a 4. I've always thought the fear of people rejecting me or not liking me was just an indication that I have no value (the real fear) vs the opposite that really i could be fearing the loss of connection itself which would be the result of not having value. Kind of an interesting nuanced difference there. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe overthinking it haha
I also definitely struggle with both needing to be authentic and needing to be nice so that others like me which is indeed an exhausting internal battle at times. Thanks for the video!
Another great video.
Yeap! I still need give a good reason to others to give me a room in their life😬
Thank you.
Why don’t you discuss 5 sense of abandonment? I am in darkness now because it feels like no one including spouse reaches out to me. Her whole family are 2s,7s,and 9s (there’s 8 siblings) but none of them understand the loneliness and feel need/want to reach out to me when I clam up/feel extremely introverted.
Sometimes people disapprove of or dislike our behaviors even if they are right/moral but they don't prefer them. For example, my daughter got engaged recently to someone she's been dating for 6 months and I expressed concern (I'm a 4w5). And she is displeased because I didn't just express only support and she felt I was being negative and critical, even though I was very loving and gentle when I expressed that there may be some risk to this decision. When I expressed that doing so would feel inauthentic to me, she said she didn't care and I should just do what she asked. I am struggling to figure out if I should adjust that behavior in the future, apologize, etc. Would it be people pleasing to bite my tongue and not provide information/guidance in the future because the other person just wants positivity? Or is that something I should do to stretch out of my 4ness. Life is so hard sometimes! But thank you so much for all of your help. It's helping!
It sounds like you're navigating a tough situation. It's completely natural to have concerns for your loved ones, especially when it comes to big decisions like engagement. Finding the right balance between honesty and support can be tricky. Trust your instincts and remember that open communication is key!
@@twlahue Thank you
I got in peace in this abandonment feelings.
I am not a baby anymore
Someone left on the doorstep.
I tried to talk to my son when he was growing up about what will your contribution be to the world? That's what I think about. Not monetary but doing things to improve the world and help others.
Interesting. I'm an 8w7 and I find a decent amount of this in me, from a slightly different angle. And it could be due to my current life situation. I'm divorced and live in a state where I have no family. So it's REALLY easy for me to be frustrated with life and go to an unhealthy 5. But I like to be very social and hangout with people but I feel like my 8 intensity and blunt-ness can turn people off. So I do feel like I have to do a lot of extra things to be accepted by people and for people to invite me to social gatherings. I do feel like I need to work hard to give myself worth. Im very intense with my diet and exercise so I'm in very good physical shape. Many times when I'm invited somewhere I'll bring a gift for the host (absolutely no one else does this in my circle) or a lot of extra snacks for my friends. Just because I feel like I need to stand out in a positive way so that they'll like me and accept me and invite me. Because I can't stand to just be home alone with nothing to do. The 8 in me goes stir-crazy! But this video was very interesting to me. I need to figure out a healthier way of seeing my worth.
And now that I think of it, its not that I care if people like me or not ultimately, I just need them to like me enough to include me in the social events so I'm not bored lol. That's what is driving it.
It’s good if they like me, but I don’t need it.
It’s out of my control.
My behavior might need to change, but it’s not a question of worth.
Is the behavior wrong or displeasing?
Why do I need people to remind me of my worth?
I don't know how to react to this when it comes to my family. My whole life, I have been taught by experiences that if I am not these things, I will be disapproved of. My grandma actively does this, my parents actively do this, my siblings actively do this. Not just toward me but toward everyone, especially all of our family members. It has led me to not reach out to them at all to continue my relationships with them. Because its exhausting to put up that much effort, and then STILL be disapproved of because like you said, I can't be perfectly pleasing to everyone all the time. And like you said, I can't change people's view of me. And I don't want to continue to put myself through that gauntlet just to spend time with them. I feel terrible by no longer associating with them, and I feel terrible when I do. Is there a way to find peace with my choices, or theirs, and live my life without the guilt? I am a 1w2.
hi Dr. Tom - what is the book you are reading from in this video? I don't think you mention it, but I may have missed it. Thanks!
Great video! “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is.” Which number do you think Forest Gump is?
Good question. I will have to think about that. My first guess is 9, but I am not sure...
Dr. Tom LaHue, for my first pick I guessed 2. His openness about love and friendship seemed so 2. If you get a chance to watch it again let me know :)
Hmm all this only works in a form of comparisons and competitive behaviour..won't work...😚🙃🙄
Btw narcisme drives a lot of those also manipulative behaviour ..🤪
Hi Dr. Lahue! I just wanted to share my excitement with you about the enneagram and everything that you are doing! I'm wondering if you still hold skype/zoom calls or a way to reach out. I personally feel like I'm struggling with defining whether I'm a 5w4 or a 4w5. And I would love to learn about your own journey through the enneagram and self growth. Thanks, take care!
Glad to help. Yes. Coaching Appointments: www.tomlahue.com
Sorry part 2.. this is s need you Can NOT solve. IT is like a hole gettimg BIGGER and BIGGER...Best is to look out for other people. Lets have hope ( still struggle), there Will be someone who likes me.....
Do you really believe in God?
Absolutely!
@@twlahue why?
Annissa he believes in God. He does amazing work. Leave him be. That’s his business and not appropriate for a public comment conversation. Be respectful